The World Possessed with Devils, Dialogue 2
¶The ſecond Dialogue called Blacke Deuilles.
Tobie, Theophrast, Euſtace, Ierome.
NOw that thou art come Theophraste, I praie thee ſhewe vsus (ccordyng to thy promiſe) the diuerſities & Natures of thoſe that were poſſeſſed with Deuilles, whom our Sauiour Chriſt healed.
Theo.
The Euangeliſtes witneſſe,Matth. 12. that he caſt out many wicked ſpirites,Marke. 8. that tormēted the poſſeſſed, wherof thei write not at large: but there are ſome other of whom thei write more largely & ſpecially emongeſt whiche alſo there wer great diuerſity.
Tobie.
Wherevppon doeſt thou gather that diuerſitie, whereof thou ſpeakeſt?
Theo.
We maie gather it,The diuerſitie of the poſſeſſed healed by our Sauiour Chriſt. either by the multitude of wicked ſpirites, that then tormented the poſſeſſed, or by the tyme when thei began to torment them, or by the workyng of wicked ſpirites in them, and the euills whiche the Deuilles did them, or by the qualitie of the perſones ſo poſſeſſed.
Tobie.
Shew vsus the exāple of all theſe diuers ſortes poſſeſſed, ſo that we may better vnderſtande, this thy diſtinction.
Theo.
There were ſome, whiche were not tormented with one wicked ſpirit onelyonly, but with many, ſome likewiſe wer poſſeſſed and tormented with the Deuil from their childhoode, and youth: ſome other in their age, ſome alſo there were, whiche were not onelyonly in greate furie and rage, by reaſon of the Deuills whiche poſſeſſed them, but alſo were both blinde, deaffe, and dūbe. And touching thoſe that were poſſeſſed, thei were not all of one qualitie, as we ſhall perceiue more at large in this place.
Tobie.
I doe not ſo muche demaunde of thee,A Legion of Deuilles in the poſſeſſed. the exāple of thoſe that were tormented with many euill Spirites, becauſe we hauehave already talked thereof, in talkyng of hym that was poſſeſſed with a Legion of Deuilles.
Theo.
Sainct Matthewe maketh not onelyonly mention,Matth. 8. of one that was ſo tormented with a nomber of Deuilles, but ſaieth that therewere twoo: Although Saincte Marke and Sainct Luke, make mention but of one onelyonly, for that the ſtorie of hym was ſufficient for theim, to manifeſt that thyng that ſainct Matthew minded to ſet forthe, for the power and grace of Ieſus Chriſt, in the ſtorie of the twoo poſſeſſed, of whom he writeth. To theſe twoo we maie adde that, whiche ſaincte Luke writeth of Marie Sagdaline,Luks. 8. ſaiyng: That our Sauiour Chriſt caſt out ſeuen Deuills from her, wherewith ſhe was poſſeſſed.
Tobie.
What haſt thou to ſaie of theſe kind of poſſeſſed,The errours of the Papiſts touchyng Mary Magdaline. & namely of Mary Magdaline: for there are many that vnderſtand that thoſe ſeuen Deuilles which our Sauiour caſt out, were the ſeuen deadly ſinnes whiche had ouercome her. Haſt not thou heard the like Eustace.
Eust.
Yea, I hauehave heard our Preachers preache ſo, whiche ſaie that ſhe was a common Harlot, before ſhe was conuerted to Chriſt, but when he cōuertrd her, he droue out ſeuen Deuilles out of her, that is to ſaie: the ſeuen deadly ſinnes, whereunto ſhe was ſubiect like a poore miſerable ſinner, giuen ouer to all filthineſſe. I thinke Theophrastus will not ſaie the contrarie.
Theo.
If I ſhould ſhew how many kind of waies your Preachers are deceiued in this thyng, and you with them, I ſhould ſpend to muche tyme, and goe to farre frō the cheefe matter whereof we now talke: wherefore I will but glaunce ouer the pointes whiche ſerue leaſt to our matter.
Euſt.
Wherein is it that our Preachers are deceiued and we with them?
Theo.
Firſt,Luke. 7. in that thei take Marie Magdaline, Ihon. 12.and Marie the ſiſter of Lazarus and Martha, Luke. 7. 8.& the ſinner of whom S. Luke ſpeaketh, al for one womā, where in deede thei are three ſeuerall women, as it is eaſie to bee proued by the Hiſtories of the Goſpell: if I had tyme to talke of it, but that I will leaue till more leaſure.
Euſt.
What haſt thou to ſaie more.
Theo.
That your Doctors herein doe ſhew their ignoraunce,The number of mortall ſinnes. in forgiuyng ſuche nomber of mortall ſinnes, as if there were but ſeuen.
Euſt.
Why, thinkeſt thou that there are moe?
Theo.
Yea, I ſaie that all ſinnes are mortal of them ſelues, for that thei deſerue death, euen eternall death: and ſo remaine continually mortall to the reprobates, in as muche as thei neither aſke nor obtaine pardon through Ieſus Chriſt,The differēce betweene mortall and veniall ſinnes whiche maketh them veniall to the elect of God, thorow ſtedfaſt faith in him. But becauſe this is not to our matter, I will wade no further in it.
Euſt.
Thinkeſt thou then,The ſeuen Deuils which were in Mary Magdaline. that thoſe ſeuen Deuilles that were in her, of their very nature and ſubſtaunce?
Theo.
No man can denie it, except he will manifeſtly gaineſaie S. Luke and ouerthrow his meaning, for he ſpeaketh not in this place of the forgiueneſſe of ſinnes, whiche Synners obtaine through Ieſus Chriſte: but he manifeſtly ſpeaketh of the merueilous woorkes of Chriſte, through which, he not onelyonly deliuered the poſſeſſed of the wicked Spirites whiche tormented them, but alſo he healed many of diuers diſeaſes, infirmities & ſickenneſſes. Wherefore, there is no cauſe why thei ſhould here take thoſe Deuilles for the ſeuen deadly ſinnes.The differēce betwixt the poſſeſſed, and thoſe that the Deuill dwelleth in by ſin. For if we will vnderſtande hereby that our Sauiour Chriſt driueth Deuils out of thoſe, who he deliuereth out of their handes, and withdraweth from ſinne: wee maie rightly ſaie, that he woorketh many ſuche miracles daiely. But thei are miracles in the ſoule, whereof S. Luke ſpeaketh no whitt in the place here alleadged, but of ſuche miracles as were manifeſtly doen in the bodie it ſelf. For although the Deuill dwell in thoſe that are ſubiect vntounto hym through ſinne: neuertheleſſe, we do not properly call them poſſeſſed with Deuilles, except thei torment their bodie, or ſo trouble their mynde, as it tourne into a furie or rage. And if wee ſhould take the Deuilles for mortall ſinnes, in all the poſſed that the Euangeliſtes make mention of, wee could not then ſaie, that our Sauiour Chriſte did caſt out Deuilles of very nature and ſubſtaunce of the poſſeſſed whō he healed, but only that he deliuered them frō their ſinnes. For there is no more reaſon to driue vsus to take thoſe deuils (whiche poſſeſſed Marie Magdaline) for ſinnes, then of any other ſo poſſeſſed.
Euſt.
I perceiue well enough that I ſpende my tyme in waſte to diſpute with you. For your new Diuinitie condemneth all the doctrine of our Doctors and Preachers, and ye like nothyng but onelyonly your newe opinions.
Theo.
Our opinions are not newe, neither do we condemne the doctrine of your Doctors and Preachers, nor of any other, but where thei are contrarie to the pure worde of God. And if wee condemne any doctrine by this woorde, it is not wee that condemne it, but God hymſelf: whoſe ſentence we doe but pronounce as heretofore his Prophetes, Apoſtles and Euangeliſts hauehave doen.
Euſt.
Seing you expoūd the holy ſcriptures as it pleaſeth you, I will let Tobie and you goe forwarde with your matter.
Tobie.
I denie not for my part,In what ſence the wicked maie be holden for poſſeſſed. but that the poſſeſſed which ye Euangeliſts ſpeake of, were verely poſſeſſed with Deuilles: otherwiſe then ſinners, wicked and reprobate are commonly poſſeſſed with ſynne, through which the Deuil dwelleth in thē. But on the other ſide, maie we not rightly holde the wicked and reprobate for poſſeſſed, which giuegive them ſelues ouer to the deuill, and doe the workes of the ſame? For though thei ſhew fairer countenaunce, thē thoſe whom we properly cal poſſeſſed, and ſhew them ſelues not ſo furious, neuertheleſſe, thei many tymes execute ſtrōger and horribler thynges, then thei do, whiche are euen holden for very poſſeſſed.
Theo.
I doe not onelyonly agree to that that thou haſt ſpoken, but I ſaie further, that this ſorte of poſſeſſed are muche more dangerous thē the other, if a man could know them. For, the leſſe thei are knowne the more hurt thei doe, not only to other men, but to their owne ſelues. And becauſe men can not well perceiue how the Deuil hurteth their ſoules by meanes of ſinne. God hath ſet forth this Image before their eyes in the perſones of the poſſeſſed whiche are knowne to be ſuche, to the ende that by thē thei might learne to know, by the tyranny whiche the Deuill executeth on their bodies, what tyranny he vſeth on their ſoules when thei are giuen ouer to hym. Now, when wee reade that whiche the Euangeliſtes hauehave written of the poſſeſſed, let vsus cōſider in them, the eſtate of poore ſinners whiche are in the power of Sathan.
Tobie.
What ſaieſt thou to the firſt, touchyng the poſſeſſed, whiche are tormented with many Deuilles.
Theo.
Thou knoweſt that it hath beene a common opinion among Chriſtian men of long tyme, that God hath giuen to eche man a good Angel to keepe hym, and likewiſe that eueryevery man hath an euill Aungell that ſtriueth with the good, and goeth about to hurte and wholie ouerthrowe hym whoſe euill Aungell he is.
Tobie.
Yea, I can yet ſaie the prayer by rote that was taught me whē I was yong to bequeath me to my good Aungell. But tell me I praie thee, thinkeſt thou not that eueryevery man hath a good and ill Angell?
Theo.
Thou maieſt here perceiue by the hiſtories of theſe poſſeſſed which were tormented with ſo many Diuelles, that thei had more then one euill Angell a peece, for thei had as many euill Angelles as thei had Deuilles within them.
Tobie.
If God ſuffer many Deuilles at once to fal on one man, to hurt and deſtroy if thei can, I doubt not, but that he giueth alſo when it pleaſeth hym many good Angelles to his children, to guard and defend them from thoſe wicked Angelles, whiche are plaine Deuilles.
Theo.
The holie Scripture maketh no expreſſe mention that God giueth any certaine nomber of Aungelles to his elect,Of the garde and miniſtery of Angelles. to conduct and defend them,Pſalm. 91. but it generally teacheth vsus,Hebru. 1. yt God hath created Angels to ſerue thoſe that are appointed to life euerlaſtyng,Math. 4. 18. and that thei be aſſigned to them,Pſalm. 34. to defende them. And therefore the Pſalmeſt ſaieth: That the Angels of the Lorde are camped like an hoaſt, about them that feare the Lorde. Furthermore, wee reade that the charge of a whole Countrey, kingdome or Empire is giuen by the Lorde to one Angell,Daniel. 10. as Daniell doeth plainly declare. Likewiſe wee reade, that God hath ſometymes ſent many Angelles to keepe and defende one man, as witneſſeth the viſion of Heliſeus ſeruaunt:2. Kyng. 5. when the Lorde cauſed hym to ſee the ſuccour that he ſent Heliſeus his maiſter.
Tobie.
Seeyng wee hauehave ſo many enemies, and ſo cruell, wee hauehave greate neede of Gods ſauegarde, & that he ſende his Angelles to keepe, guide, and defende vsus, or els we ſhould ſurely be but very ill kept.
Theo.
Although our good God and father,Wakefulneſſe againſt ſnares & aſſaults of Sathan. hath very well prouided for that from the beginnyng: neuertheleſſe, we muſt not bee careleſſe, but watche continually, as warriours doe, that looke eueryevery houre for the aſſault or allaroms of their enemies. And therefore,1. Peter. 5. after S. Peter had admoniſhed the faithfull to caſt and laie all their care on God, aſſuring them, yt God would be carefull for them, he exhorteth them after this maner: be ſober & watche, for your aduerſarie the Deuill as a roaryng Lion walketh about, ſekyng whom he maie deuour, whom reſiſt ſtedfaſt in the faith. Seyng then that the lorde hath warned vsus of the malice of our enemie, and of the deſire duplicate page duplicate page duplicate page duplicate page that he hath to hurt and ouerthrow vsus, and the diligēce that he vſeth therein, and likewiſe of the duetie on our part to reſiſt him, and the meanes that God giueth vsus to defende our ſelues, againſt that ſo daungerous an enemy, certainly we ought not to be careleſſe and ſlothfull therin. For, if we deſpiſe the warnynges, that God by his worde hath giuen vsus, and care no more for them, then if wee were out of daunger, doe we not deſerue that God in iuſt iudgemēt ſhould giuegive vsus ouer, into the hādes of our aduerſarie, as children of rebellion and diſobediēce.To tēpt God. For, we are forbidden tempt God:Dan. 6. and we bothe tempt hym and mocke him,Math. 4. when we deſpiſe his warnynges, and vſe not the meanes,Luke. 4. whiche he in his word hath declared vntounto vsus,Pſal. 95. and by whiche he will helpe and ſuccour vsus.Heb. 4. 4. And therefore the exāples of the poſſeſſed,1. Cor. 10. that we ſpake of euen now,The Deuilles diligent to hurter maie ſerue to waken vsus, that we be not ſodainly ouercome with ſo cruel an enemy,Iob. 1. 2. who as he deſireth nothing but our vtter deſtruction,Math. 12. ſo he ceaſeth neither daie nor night, to range and rome to and fro, to ſet on vsus at vnawares, as we ſe euidently by the example of Iob, and in the ſimilitude whiche wee ſpake of before, that our Sauior Chriſt made vntounto the Iewes, touchyng the wicked ſpirite that wandered in the deſertes, and ſought for reſt.
Tobie.
If one deuill be ſufficiēt to trouble, and torment the whole world, in what ſtate bee the poore poſſeſſed, that are not onelyonly troubled with one,The power that the Deuill hath to torment men but with many.
Theo.
To th'ende that we maie the better iudge of this matter, and perceiue the malice and rage of our aduerſarie, lett vsus cōſider in what furie he brought thoſe poſſeſſed, whiche anſwered our ſauior Chriſt, that thei had a Legion of Deuilles within them, becauſe thei were poſſeſſed with a great nomber: as it well appeared (when Chriſt gaue them leaue to depart) by their enteryng into the Heard of Swine, that were there by: and then wee ſhall well vnderſtand, how we maie come to the knowledge by ſuche examples, into what ſtate the Deuill bryngeth mennes ſoules, thorowe the ſynne that raigneth in them, and into what tormēt and trouble he bryngeth the whole worlde, by theſame meanes.
Tobie.
I wene S. Mathew writeth that theſe twoo poſſeſſed,Math 8. of whō thou ſpeakeſt, came forth of the graues, & were very fearfull, ſo that none could paſſe that waie.
Theo.
S. Marke touchyng this matter ſaieth,Marke. 5. that he had his abidyng of hym that he ſpake therof, emong the graues, and no man could bind him, no not with chaines: becauſe that whē he was often bound with fetters & chaines, he plucked the chaines in ſ…nder, and brake the fetters in peeces, neither could any man tame hym: and alwaies bothe night and daie, he cried in the mountaines,Luke. 8. and in the graues, and ſtroke hymſelf with ſtones. Sainct Luke ſaieth further of this matter, that he was long time poſſeſſed with the deuill, and he ware no Clothes, neither abode in houſe, but in graues, and breakyng the bandes that he was bounde with, was caried of the Deuill into the wilderneſſe.
Tobie.
There are many thynges to bee conſidered in theſe poſſeſſed, in whiche I would knowe thy minde.
Theo.
Shewe them in order, and I wil anſwere thee to eueryevery of theim, as GOD ſhall giuegive me grace.
Tobie.
The firſt is,The abidyng …f the poſſeſ…ed in graues …nd deſertes. touchyng their abidyng in the graues and deſertes: and why the deuill rather caried them thether, then to any other place. For, ſainct Luke ſaieth plainly,…uke. 8. as thou diddeſt rehearſe euen now that the deuill did cary thē to thoſe places.
Theo.
Thou muſt vnderſtande,Torment of the body and mynde. that the deuill doeth not onelyonly torment the poſſeſſed in their bodies, but alſo thei ſo trouble their vnderſtanding, that all bodily tormē tes wer nothyng, in compariſon of the torment of the mynde, now the deuill hauing thus troubled their myndes, puttes horrible and ſtraunge thynges in their imaginatiō: ſo that many times thei knowe not, whether thei be beaſtes, men, or deuilles: whether thei be quicke or dedde, but euen as their imaginations and fantaſies carry them.
Tobie.
I hauehave ſeen frantike,Fonde imaginations of franticke men Melancolike, and furious men, whiche were not eſteemed to bee poſſeſſed, and yet had ſuche imaginatiōs, as could not be remoued out of their heddes, though the ſtraungeneſſe thereof were incredible. I hauehave heard many tales of diuers, that hauehave been in that takyng: but emongſt other, of ſome which beeyng out of their wittes, thought thei were ded: and had this toye rooted in their fantaſie, that thei could by no meanes bee perſwaded to eate meate: For, when any man offered theim either meate or drinke, thei anſwered, that thei were dedde, & that ded folkes did neither eate nor drinke: ſo ye ſome of thē hauehave died of honger and thirſt: and ſome of them hauehave been brought to eatyng, becauſe that other whiche fained to be ded aſ well as thei, did eate and drinke.
Theo.
Ihon Nider maketh mention of a certaine Citezen of Vienna in Austriche whom he ſawe whileſt he ſtudied there,Nider in formicar. Lib. 5. cap. 12. that could neuer bee perſwaded, either to eate or drinke, beeyng in this rauerie that thou ſpeakeſt of, but died for hōger. Now, if diſeaſes and euill humours that bee in man, be able ſo to trouble his braine and vnderſtandyng, it is not to bee doubted, but that the Deuill can trouble hym more, and by many other meanes, whereof men knowe not the cauſes, whether it be that he vſe the meanes, of the euill diſpoſitiō of thoſe that he ſeketh, or that he doe it without the aide or meane thereof. And therefore it is verie likely, that thoſe deuilles whiche poſſeſſed the men, that we euē now ſpake of, had put ſome ſuche like toye in their phātaſie, and made them imagine that thei were dedde. For whiche cauſe, thei fled the company of the liuyng, and withdrewe themſelues into the graues (whiche wer places appointed for the dedde) as vntounto the lodgyng meteſt for them, accordyng to their fond imaginatiō. And becauſe deſert places be not inhabited, thei withdrewe themſelues thether, to flee the cōpanie of men. For, there are ſome melancolike and furious folke, yt ſo hate men, & are greued with the conuerſation of others, yt thei cannot away, either to ſee or heare any body, but deſire to bee alone like wild beaſts. It ſemeth that theſe twoo poſſeſſed men, were of theſe ſortes, and therfore deſired to be in deſert places.
Tobie.
Thei that liue in feare of Death,The feare of death. liue in a meruailous paine.
Theo.
Thei liue in a paine whiche tormenteth them, more then Death it ſelf.
Tobie.
I doubt not thereof. But mee ſemeth that theſe, whiche already hauehave opinion that thei be ded, and bothe flee frō the conuerſation of men with greate hatered, & alſo this preſent life, are in muche more miſerable eſtate. For, he that feareth death liueth ſomewhat betwene feare and hope, but he that hath this opinion, that he is already dedde, is not onelyonly out of all hope of life, but euen in the caſe of a condemned perſone, in the handes of the hangman, or as the damned ſoule in perpetuall paine.
Theo.
Therfore thou maieſt well think in what torment, the Soules of the poore poſſeſſed are, hauyng ſuche imagination. For thei were, as hauyng alwaies preſent death before their eyes, and diyng continually, and yet can not wholy dye.
Tobie.
How could thei imagine to bee already dedde, and yet to dye againe, as if thei were not wholy dedde? It ſemeth that theſe imaginations, be quite contrary.
Theo.
Thou muſt not meruaile at that, for there is no ſtaie in thoſe, that are troubled in minde and vnderſtāding, but chiefly when the deuill puttes in foote: for thei hauehave no certaine iudgement, to iudge any thyng by reaſon,The torment of thoſe, that are giuen ouer to Satan. neither to vnderſtande reaſon when it is told them. Furthermore thou ſhalt vnderſtande, that the tormentes of theſe, whiche are giuen ouer into the hā des of the Deuil are ſo horrible, that it caſteth thē into vtter deſpaire: and therefore thei ſeeke all the meanes thei can, to ridde themſelues of it, though it be neuer ſo impoſſible. Wherefore there is no doubt, but that the damned, whiche beare the iudgemēt of God, feele thēſelues ſo ouerladen, with the burthen of his wrathe and curſe, thei would gladly bee diſpatched: yea, ſo ded, that there might be no memorie of thē after death, no more then of brute beaſtes.
Tobie.
I doubt not but that thei had rather their ſoules were mortall thē immortall, and that their bodies might not riſe againe, rather then to riſe to perpetuall torment.
Theo.
Thou maieſt well vnderſtande,Matth. 26. that it was not for nought that our Sauiour Chriſt ſaied of Iudas:The iudgement of God on the wicked that it had been better that man had neuer been borne.
Tobie.
Wherefore ſaied Chriſt ſo thinkeſt thou?
Theo.
He ſaid not ſimply that it had bin good that Iudas had neuer bin borne.Prouer. 16. For how miſcheeuous ſo euer he was GOD made his wicked treaſon to ſerue to his glorie. And therefore it was good that he was borne in reſpect of gods glory, which created all thynges to that end. But ſithe Iudas was ſo wicked yt he miſcheeuouſly rebelled againſt God, and therby deſerued eternall damnation, our Sauiour Chriſte ſpake in reſpect of ye perſon of Iudas, that it had been better that he had neuer beene borne, thē ſo wickedly to caſt away himſelf for euer. Wherein our ſauiour Chriſt teacheth vsus two thynges worthie to be noted.
Tobie.
What is the firſt?
Theo.
That is: that God ſo maketh wicked Inſtrumentes to ſerue to his glorie, that by them he executeth his eternall ordenaunce, and yet neuertheleſſe he puniſheth theim for their euill imaginations and wicked workes.
Tobie.
What is the other poinct?
Theo.
The other poinct is: that he thereby declareth vntounto vsus, how horrible y• paine of the wicked and reprobate is, in that the greatneſſe of the ſame is not to be compared, with the excellent gift of this mortall life, and the benefites which we maie here receiue.
Tobie.
Yet life is a good and excellent gift of God.
Theo.
That is very true. And therefore if it be better for man neuer to hauehave liued, or neuer to hauehave bin made, then to be made to beare the euerlaſting curſe of God thou maieſt eaſily iudge, how greate a burthē it is, to beare ſuche a iudgement. And thereby wee maie perceiue that, whiche Ieſus Chriſt ſpeake to Iudas concernyng this matter, was likewiſe ſpoken to all the reprobate & enemies of God. Ouid becauſe we can not vnderſtande nor comprehende them, God hath here ſet forth before our eyes horrible images in theſe poſſeſſed mē,The Image of the hell of the wicked. whereof wee ſpeake. For I would aſke thee a queſtiō. Whether hadſt thou rather (if thou were put to thy choyce) neuer to hauehave been borne, or to bee for euer in the eſtate that theſe poſſeſſed men were.
Tobie.
I had rather if I had none other reſpect but my ſelf, neuer hauehave been borne into the worlde.
Theo.
And yet all that is writtē of theſe poſſeſſed men is nothing, in compariſon of the tormentes of the damned & reprobate: which beginneth not onelyonly ſo ſone as thei are departed out of this preſent life, but euen whileſt thei liue, ſo ſoone as thei reſiſt God, & fight againſt their own cōſciences
Tobie.
Wee maie then place thoſe wicked ones that thou ſpeakeſt of, in the number of theſe poſſeſſed men that make their abidyng in the graues: as if thei were alreadie lodged with death, and had hym alwaies before their eyes.
Theo.
Though thei make a fairer ſhew towardes the world, then the poſſeſſed do, and are not ſo muche tormented in bodie, yet are thei no leſſe tormented in ſpirite & conſcience then thei: for though thei goe about to appeaſe it, as much as thei can, yet the Lordes ſaiyng ſhall alwaies remaine true which he ſpake by the mouth of Eſay: Eſaie. 48.ſaiyng. The wicked ſhal neuer hauehave peace nor quietneſſe, but ſhalbe continually like the Sea, whiche is alwaies in torment.
Tobie.
As concernyng thoſe that thou ſpeakeſt of,Thei that hate and are wearie of all men. whiche hate all men and their conuerſation, and ſeeke to be ſollitary, becauſe all the world doth extreamely auoyd them, I hauehave knowen ſome, that in ſteede of ioiyng in their wines and children, thei hauehave ſo extreamelie hated them, that thei could neither ſee them nor heare them, no, nor abide any other perſon.
Theo.
Thou maieſt well place thoſe in the nomber of thoſe poſſeſſed that fled into the Deſertes. For there are ſome wicked ones ſo enuious and hatefull to eueryevery mā, through the extreame couetouſneſſe that continually grieueth their greedie harte, that thei would hauehave all the worlde them ſelues: therefore as thei can awaie with no man, no more can any man away with thē: yea, thei can not awaie with them ſelues. And this is the cauſe that thei become like to theſe poſſeſſed men,Math 8. which not onelyonly fell vponupon all ſuche as paſſed by and thei met,Mark. 5. ſo that none durſt paſſe by the waie where thei were, but alſo thei cruelly tormented themſelues, and beate themſelues againſt the ſtones.
Tobie.
If the Deuill hauehave ſuche power ouer thoſe whom he ruleth, that he cauſeth them to torment them ſelues, yea, if thei could to deſtroy them ſelues, we neede not meruaile if ſuche be cruell and furious againſt others.
Theo.
Notwithſtanding, thou ſeeſt how God hath Sathan ſo in bondes,The Deuille power brideled. and brideleth him by his prouidence, that he cannot woorke his will, neither in the perſon of theſe poore poſſeſſed, nor in any other: for though theſe poſſeſſed breake their chaines and bonds, ſo that none could keepe them bounde nor ſtaie them: neuertheleſſe, thei could neither deſtroy themſelues, nor hurt any other further then the Lorde gaue thē leaue.
Tobie.
If God had not prouided, they might hauehave doen muche harme, conſidering that thei were ſo furious, mighty and ſtrong, that there were no bonds nor chaines but thei brake▪
Theo.
Thou maieſt well think, that that ſtrength came not alone of them ſelues, for thei were but men as other men are: whereby wee maie perceiue, that the Deuilles whiche poſſeſſed them, did employe their force to worke ſuche thynges, as ſurmounted the order of nature.
Tobie.
It is not to bee doubted but that their ſtrēgth came from them as thou haſt ſaied: for it is certaine that it came not frō the ſpirite of God as Sampſons did:Iude. 15. 16. who alſo brake chaines and bonds, caried away Towne gates on his ſhoulders, and ouerthrew houſes with ye ſtrength of his hāds.
Theo.
Neuertheleſſe, thou ſeeſt how God hath theſe poſſeſſed in ſuche bondes, that notwithſtandyng the ſtrēgth that the deuilles gaue them, yet were thei alwaies ſo ſubiect to Ieſus Chriſt, as if he had had them in chaines and bondes, and although thei fledde to the graues and deſertes, yet when it pleaſed Ieſus Chriſte, he brought them from thence, and cōſtrained them to appeare before hym, as if a Iudge ſhould call a wicked doer out of priſon: to appere before hym, to giuegive ſentence againſt hym. Now if our Sauiour Chriſt, hauehave ſhewed ſuche power on theſe poſſeſſed, and ouer the Deuilles whiche tormented them, we maie not doubt, but that he hath as muche power now as euer he had, to repreſſe the cloaked poſſeſſed,Tyrauntes poſſeſſed. that are now adaies, and alſo theſe Deuilles, by whom thei are conducted and gouerned. But eſpecially wee maie be well aſſured, that he will not looſe the bridle more to tyrauntes, then to theſe poſſeſſed, whō thei reſemble in many thinges. For, thei are ſtrong and mightie poſſeſſed, whom mannes power can not eaſely reſiſte: yea, and thei bee furious, like the lorde and maiſter that thei ſerue. And therfore,The crowne… and hornes of the redd Dragon. it is written in the Apocalips, that the red Dragon had ſeuen heddes, and on eueryevery hedde a croune, and he had alſo ten hornes. For,Apoc. 12. the Deuill hath at all tymes gouerned ſuche tyrānous Kynges and Princes, as perſecuted the people of God. Furthermore, lawes be giuen to men, as bondes and bridles to reſtraine them, from all kinde of riot or beaſtly life: And therefore Dauid admoniſheth vsus,Pſal. 32. ſaiyng Be ye not like an Horſe, or like a Mule, whiche vnderſtande not, whoſe mouthes thou doeſt bind with Bit and Bridle, leaſt thei come nere thee. But there is neither bit nor bridle, that can reſtraine the tyrannie, and furie of tyrauntes, by reaſon of their power, and the practiſes that the Redde Dragon, whiche is the Deuil, worketh in them and by theim. Wherefore, thei maie well bee compared to thoſe furious, violente, and wilde poſſeſſed men. But our greateſt cō fort, is, that Ieſus Chriſte whiche is their iudge, is able inough to cal them to iudgemēt before him, either to bridle their rage, or to condemne theim to the bottomeleſſe pitte of helle to the Deuill, whom thei had rather obeye then God. And therefore it is written in the booke of Daniell,Dan. 7. that the Sonne of God hath Iudged and condemned all beaſtes: By whiche is ſignified the empire and kyngdomes, whiche hauehave perſecuted the people and chuche of God, and hauehave doen ſo muche harme on the yearth.
Tobie.
I vnderſtande this poincte verie well: Now remaineth to heare, what Ierome hath to ſaie.
Ierom.
Becauſe that the tyrantes which openly perſecute the people, and Churche of God, and vſe nothyng but rage, force, and violence, doe manifeſtly declare themſelues, to bee the enemies of God and his churche, it ſemeth that we maie rightly cal ſuche poſſeſſed and deuills, blacke deuils.
Tobie.
Why ſaieſt thou ſo?Blacke Deuils Diddſt thou euer ſee, either blacke or white Deuilles?
Ierom.
Seyng thei are ſpirites without bodies, thei cā neither be blacke nor white, for thei can receiue no colour, ſithe that colours hauehave no place, but in viſible and corporall thinges. But I ſpeake this, becauſe Painters commonly paint Deuils black, and wee imagine them ſo to bee, whiche is not wholie without reaſon:The Prince of darkneſſe his liuerie. For, ſeyng the Deuill is Prince of darkeneſſe, the colour is verie meete for his liuerie, becauſe it repreſenteth darkeneſſe muche better, then any other, as whiteneſſe beſt repreſenteth light: for whiche cauſe cōtrariwiſe, Painters commonly make Angelles white and ſhinyng: And when thei hauehave appeared to men in likeneſſe of menne, thei hauehave often tymes appeared after that maner, as the holie Scripture witneſſeth.
Tobie.
Seeyng the Deuill is a Prince,Math. 28. yea,Mark. 16. the Prince of the worlde,Luk. 24. and is al…o called the Prince of darkeneſſe,Ihon. 20. it is good reaſon that he ſhould hauehave a liuerie,Actes. 1. 10. as oother Princes and lordes hauehave,Ihon. 12. 15. and that it ſhould be blacke.2. Cor. 3. And ſo ſeyng thou diddſt call theſe blacke Deuilles,Luke. 22. that we talked of,Ephe. 2. thou makeſt me imagine that thou thinkeſt, that there are alſo white deuils: or els thou needeſt not to hauehave vſed that title, as a diſtinction of blacke Deuils from other.
Ierom.
As wee maie rightly call thoſe blacke deuills, whiche openly ſhewe them ſelues to be Deuills, ſo likewiſe maie we call thoſe white deuills, whiche trāſfigure themſelues into Angelles of Light.White Deuils For, although thei bee Deuilles in deede,2. Cor. 11. neuertheleſſe, thei diſguiſe themſelues ſo, that thei are taken for Angelles of Light, though thei be Angelles of darkeneſſe.
Tobie.
I thinke thoſe white Deuils, are more daungerous then the blacke, for that thei are more ſubtle and traiterous then ye other, and are no leſſe cruell and furious.
Ierom.
There is no difference, but that theſe white Deuils, can better couer their crueltie and rage for a tyme, but in thende thei are rewarded like hypocrites, euen as thei are deuilliſhe hypocrites, their cloked hipocriſie, crueltie, and furie, muſt be diſcouered. And therfore it cōmeth to paſſe many times, that theſe kind of deuils become more fell and murtherous, then any other.
Theo.
Seyng we hauehave ſpoken of blacke Deuilles,Auncient blacke Diuels and white Deuilles. I would wee ſpeake a little of white Deuils, that we might learne their nature, and beware of them.
Ierom.
As thou haſte had examples of blacke Deuills, in all the auncient tyrantes, whiche heretofore hauehave perſecuted the churche, whereby thou maieſt knowe their nature, thou haſt likewiſe many examples of white Deuils, in all ye auncient Heretikes, and in all the Hypocrites, and houſeholde enemies of the churche: whiche hath euer doen more harme, then all the open enemies that euer the Churche had, how cruell ſo euer thei were.
Tobie.
Now that we are deliuered from theſe auncient white Deuilles, I would wee ſhould now talke of theſe of our tyme, whiche touche vsus nerer.
Ierom.
I think Theophraſt wilbe ready whē thou wilt, to ſatiſfie thine expectatiō.
Tobie.
And I will alſo be ready to heare when it pleaſeth hym.
Theo.
Then we ſhall al quickly agree. But before we ende this talke, I wil ſhew you one auncient exāple of a Deuill,A Deuil both white and blacke. that was bothe blacke and white, who hath many fellowes in theſe daies.
Tobie.
What Deuill is that?
Theo.
It is Iulian the Apostata. Whē this Iulian became Emperour, and had renounced the Chriſtian Religion, which he before profeſſed, he went about with all his might, wholy to aboliſhe it, and to eſtabliſh that Heathen religiō, whiche he followed. And becauſe he knewe by experience, that the tyrantes before hym, profited nothyng with their perſecutions againſt the Chriſtians, but rather increaſed that Religion, whiche thei ſought to aboliſhe, then diminiſhed it, he tooke a contrary waie to them muche more dāgerous then theirs. Wherin we maie rightly ſaie, that the blacke deuils of his predeceſſors tyrantes,Iulians deuill conuerted into a white deuill. cōuerted themſelues into a white deuill, in the perſone of this Apostata, for he went not about to purſue the chriſtians, & with cruell perſecution, torment and death, to make them renounce their faithe, and to embrace his Paganiſme, but rather to win them by flattery, worldly honour, riches, giftes and preſentes. And therefore at the firſt, he entreated them very courteouſly,Tripart. hiſt. lib. 6. and commaūded that none ſhould torment or trouble th…m, or conſtraine them to doe Sacrifice to their Gods, but ſuffer them quietly to liue with their owne Religion.
Tobie.
That was a wonderfull ſubtiltie for,Alluringes of Iulian to deceiue Chriſtians. many maie ſoner be ouercome by ſuche meanes, then by perſecution and torment.
Theo.
Thou maieſt be ſure that he wan many by that practiſe. For the ambicious, glorious, and couetous, whiche deſired honours, riches, and offices in the court, and to be heaued vp into high dignitie, ſought to pleaſe hym, perceiuyng that thei were moſt made of that moſt fauoured his religion, and were fartheſt from the Chriſtian religion, whiche this Apostata hated to the death. But notwithſtandyng all theſe practiſes, he could not winne ſo many by this meanes as he deſired: for, by reaſon that there were many Chriſtian Emperours before hym, ſince Constantine the greate, the nomber of the Chriſtians was greatly encreaſed, in ſo muche that Iulians Courte was full, and the greateſt parte of his officers & ſeruantes were Chriſtians. For this cauſe he vſed a more ſubtill craft and dangerous ſleight,Chriſtians in Iulians Court to deceiue the moſt vertuous, & thoſe which moſt feared God, and his religion. For he knewe that good life and holie conuerſation would muche moue the people. And becauſe y• Paſtors, and Miniſters of the Chriſtians, were thē of very vpright life and holie conuerſatiō, and that by their example thei ſtirred and drewe men to their religion, and to fellow their doctrine, and alſo confirmed thoſe more which had already receiued their religion, he went about to reforme the ſtate and liues of the Prieſtes and religious mē of the Paynims,Another ſubtilty of Iulian to make men hauehave the better deuotion to the heathen religion. and their Gods & Idols, after the example of the Paſtors and Miniſters of the Chriſtians. And this he did, to the ende that the Chriſtians ſhould caſt the Gentiles in teeth, with the wicked life of their Prieſtes and Miniſters, neither that the Gētiles being offended therwith, ſhould be moued to forſake their heathniſh religion, and become Chriſtians. For thei that hauehave any ſparke of the feare of God, yea the very ſuperſtitious and Idolaters, miſlike their Paſtours and Miniſters of what religion ſo euer thei be, whē thei perceiue their wicked and vicious life. For euen the wicked them ſelues,The offence of the euill life of Paſtors looke for better life then their own at their hands whō thei eſteeme to bee their guides, & to hauehave adminiſtratiō of thinges which thei think holie. And therefore thei require of ſuche perſons a ſtraighter and vprighter life thē their own or any other. For thei think thei hauehave more libertie then thei that ought to be the example & rule of their life. Wherfore, thei can not ſuffer that to be in them, which thei can well ſuffer in other that are not of that calling, yea and in themſelues, as wee ſee the Papiſtes at this daie. For, not onelyonly the moſt ſuperſticious & demute of them, but alſo the leaſt religious, the greateſt mockers of all religion, the moſt vicious and vnruly of all, are ſore offended with their Prieſtes and Monkes, and crie out againſt them, that thei leade an offenſiue life, and a life that ſeemes not to bee according to their profeſſion. And therfore there are many of bothe ſortes, that care neither for them, their calling, nor religiō. But becauſe thei can not iudge of true religion,Hypocriſie in ſtead of holy life. vpright life, and good conuerſatiō, accordyng to the rule of Gods worde, thei are contented with the life of their Prieſts and Monkes, ſo that there bee no notable or apparant vice in them. It ſufficeth thē, if thei hauehave onelyonly an outward ſhewe of diſcretion and holineſſe, which thei take principally to conſiſt in ſuperſtition, hypocriſie, ceremonies, counterfaiting, & outward works: and not in true Chriſtian vertues. And therfore, whoſoeuer can beſt plaie the ſuperſticious hypocrite, pleaſeth thē beſt, and is beſt eſteemed amongeſt them. And this knew Iulian the Apostata very well.A reformatiō of Iulian in the heathens Prieſtes. Therefore, he commaunded the Prieſtes religions and Miniſters of the heathens God, to enforce themſelues at the leaſt to counterfaite as nigh as thei could the life and maners of the Paſtors and Miniſters of the Chriſtians: and that thei ſhould vſe themſelues ſo, that there might bee no apparant or notable crime in them,Tripart. hiſt. lib. 6. cap. 28. whiche might make the people miſlike thē, their Miniſterie, or the Religion of the Gods whiche thei ſerued. Wherefore, he forbadd them to go to any common plaies, to Tauernes, or to meddle with any filthie practiſe,Popiſh reformation. or any vnhoneſt arte not ſeemely for their callyng. To be ſhorte, he made ſuche a reformation amōg theſe fellowes, as the Pope and his make commonly among them ſelues for their Prieſtes, Monkes, and the reſt of their Clergie. For whē thei ſee that eueryevery mā crieth out at their pride, pompe, brauerie, pleaſures, ditties, and at their greate exceſſe in all thynges, at their Epicurian life, giuen ouer to al filthineſſe and enormitie more then any other, thei make a ſhewe of reformation and creation of ſuche vice and horrible ſin as raigneth amongſt them, whiche thei can in no wiſe excuſe: but in the meane while, thei neuer come to the principall matter, but are contented to dazell the eyes of the poore ignorant with a fained apparance of ſlight reformation, as in apparrell, in pompes, in meates, & exceſſiue braueneſſe, in haukes, in horſes, in paſtimes, and in the obſeruation of their Ceremonies, and ſuche like thynges: and as for the moſte notable and infamous vices whiche thei can not forbeare nor correct, it ſufficeth for reformation thereof to woorke ſecretly, and not ſo openly and commonly that all the worlde perceiue it, and point at them, and that the moſte vicious, vnruly, and moſte offenciue them ſelues, be not offended with their offenſiue life. In this meane while, there is no talke at all of their falſe doctrine, nor of the abuſe in their Religion, and in their whole ſtate, but only in theſe things which are ſo euidēt and intollerable, that there is no man can beare with it, no man ſo blunt or blinde, that can not perceiue it, and that knoweth it not, and openly cōdemneth it.
Tobie.
Thē all their reformatiō is none other thing, but onelyonly an hypocriſie, which ſerueth thē for a cauſe, the better to couer their filthineſſe before men, to th'ende that their eſtate be not diſcried, nor deffamed.
Theo.
This reformation is of leſſe appearaunce, then the reformation of Iulian the Apoſtata. For, he did not onelyonly reforme the prieſtes of his religion, as I hauehave ſaid, but he did alſo ſhewe hymſelf to bee a very good Emperor, liberall, and charitable to ye poore.The Philoſophicall life of Iulian. For, his life would ſhame a greate many now adaies. I ſay not onelyonly Emperors, kinges, and Chriſten princes, Popes Cardinalles and prelates of the Churche, whiche are more worldly, then the world it ſelf, but euen Monkes, Hermites, and the moſte reformed, and the ſtraighteſt liuers of thē all, though their appearance of holineſſe be neuer ſo greate.Tripart. hiſt. lib. 6. For, firſte he was very well learned in all humain learnyng and very ſtudious, ſo that he was alwaies at his booke, or otherwiſe occupied in ſome verteous and honeſt exerciſe, at the leaſt in outward ſhewe. And therfore he loued wiſe menne,Iulians court Tripart. hiſt. lib. 6. but principally Philoſophers, with whō his court was euer furniſhed. Since Iulius Caeſars tyme, there was no emperor but he, that could recite in the Senate or coūcell, the orations or declarations of his owne makyng. As for his court, and ye reſt of his life, he liued more like a ſober and cō tinent Philoſopher, then like an Emperor or worldly prince: & therefore he put awaie his Cookes, vſyng ſuche ſober and ſimple diet, that he needed thē not. Yea, he had no Barber of his own, for he ſaid one Barber could ſerue a great many men. To be ſhort he liued a Mōkiſh life.The Monkiſh bringyng vp of Iulian. For, he was taught and brought vp in his youth with Monkes who in thoſe daies, wer not ſo ſore degenerated frō the maners of th'auncient Monkerie, as thei are at this preſent: But their life had greate appearaunce of holineſſe. Iulian therfore, had a ſmatche of his youthly inſtructiō and bringing vp, which ſerued him the better to colour his Idolatrie. For this deuill profited ſo wel in that Monkiſh ſchole, that he had good ſkill in diſſēbling. To be ſhort,The diſſimulation of Iulian. he lead ſuche a life, as if there were any at this daie: I will not ſpeake of princes, but of prelates of ye popiſh churche (who ought to bee the light of other) that ſhould liue ſuche a life, in ſuche cōuerſatiō and ſuche knowledge, men would eſteeme them for holy men, yea, thei would worſhip thē as yong little gods. For, after his wife died,The continence of Iulian. he neuer maried again, but liued in cō tinence all the reſte of his life, neither was there at any tyme, any whoredō perceiued in hym. Furthermore, he had no ſeruaūtes about him, to maintain pleaſure or paſtime but onelyonly to ſerue his neceſſitie. And as touchyng his liberalitie & charitie,The foundation of Hoſpitalles by Iulian. wherof I ſpake before, he erected hoſpitalles, after the thexample of the Chriſtians, aſwell for waifaryng ſtraungers, as for thoſe of the countries: and cōmaūded ſuche to be erected, throughout all his cities. And gaue to thē greate reuenues, bothe of corne, wine, money, and all other thynges neceſſary for the maintenaūce of the charges therof: but chiefly he gaue greate liuyng to the poore, that kept the temple of the Gods. He commaunded alſo,The charitie of the auncient Chriſtians. y• the heathens ſhould make collections for the relief of y• poore, as chriſtians did. For he ſaid, yt it ſhould be great ſhame for them, if thoſe wicked Galileās, which frō time to time had ſuffred ſo great hinderance and loſſes, and ſo greate perſecution for their religiō, ſhould be ſo liberal & charitable, that not onelyonly thei ſhould ſuſtain the poore, whiche were of their owne religion, but alſo ſhould ſuccor & help both Iewes and Gentiles, whiche were their enemies, and that he which had the Empire of the whole worlde, and thei that followed his religion, ſhould be more niggardes towardes their owne, then the Galileās wer to ſtrangers, yea, to their mortal enemies. And therefore he thought it greate ſhame, bothe for hym and his Religion (whiche he would exalt aboue the chriſtian religiō) to be ouereome in liberalitie and largeneſſe, by the Chriſtians, whō he called Galileās in deſpite and mockerie, (becauſe Chriſte and his Apoſtles came out of the countrie of Galile, whiche was the moſte deſpiſed euen emongeſt the Iewes: as it appeareth by diuers places of the Goſpell, and ſpecially by S. Ihon.) And therefore he named Ieſus Chriſt with the ſame name, callyng hym Galilean in deſpite and mockerie.
Tobie.
For,Ihon. 1. 7. ought that I cā perceiue, al this liberalitie of Iulian, Chriſtians called Galileans.yt thou haſt talked of, proceaded not of true liberalitie, nor true charitie, that he gaue to the poore and needy, but for enuie of the Chriſtians, and ſpite that he had, that their charitie and liberalitie, did ſo muche honor their religiō, drewe men to it, and diſhonor the Painims religion. And therefore he would not, that their religiō ſhould be leſſe honored in this matter, then the Chriſtian religiō. And by that I perceiue, that the chriſtians in thoſe daies, had to doe with a ſubtle Deuill: who could cunnyngly chaunge hymſelf from a blacke Deuill into a white. But I would wiſhe, if we can now hauehave Angels in ſtede of deuills, that at leaſt we had many ſuche deuills in that point, but principally emō geſt you that brag ſo muche of the reformatiō of the Goſpel. For, ſeing yt you hate the Pope, & prelates of the Churche, Prieſtes, Monkes, and all the Religion whiche you call Popiſhe, and that ye crie ſo muche againſt them: I would ye would (in ſpite of thē,The example of Iulian to the ſhame of Chriſtians. and in ſhame of thē) become more liberall and charitable then ye bee: and that ye had more care for the poore that are emōgſt you, then ye hauehave: and yt ye would ſo honor your religion, that ye might keepe it from blame, and that thoſe whiche you call Papiſtes, ſhould not ſurmount you in liberalitie and charitie, as Iulian did to honor his religion, in deſpite of Chriſt, and the Chriſtian religion. For, if liberalitie & charitie were as greate in theſe daies emong you, as in old tyme it was emōg auncient chriſtians: ye ſhould hauehave as greate a vantage ouer your enemies, as thoſe good Chriſtians had ouer the Gentiles. But you care not for any ſuche honour. How ſaieſt thou Eustace, is not this true?
Eust.
Though thei brag neuer ſo muche of their religion,Charitie required in thoſe that brag of the Goſpell. and ſhewe thēſelues very well affected to it, and deſire greately the aduauncyng and exaltyng thereof, and the aboliſhyng of ours, neuertheleſſe, their deuotiō is not ſo great, that thei become one penie ye more liberall for it, neither is their charitie ſo great, that thei forget any iotte of their coueteouſneſſe, whiche is greater, more gredy and inſaciably in them, then euer it was, or is emong vsus, whom thei call Papiſtes, or emongeſt our Prieſtes, Monkes, and Prelates, againſt whom thei crie out, as though all charitie were quenched in them, and that there were no coueteouſneſſe in all the worlde, but theirs. For, ſo far are theſe newe Chriſtians, frō giuyng any thing of theirs, to ye relief of the poore, that thei euen take awaie that, whiche others hauehave giuen thē heretofore. Yea, ſo far are thei frō erectyng, or giuyng any thyng to Hoſpitalls, that thei will not maintaine thoſe, whiche were founded by their predeceſſors to their hādes. There are many hoſpitals, whiche heretofore hauehave bin gouerned by prieſtes, whiche were muche better gouerned then, then thei bee now by theſe newe Churche reformers. For maiſters of Hoſpitals are many tymes made, as Bailiffes, and other officers bee made, not ſo muche to miniſter Iuſtice, & to execute the office cōmitted to them, as to fill their purſes, and to make theim riche. Is not this a godly reformation, to make maiſters of hoſpitalles, not ſuche as are mete to gouerne the goodes of ye poore, but ſuche as cā ſhift for themſelues, and make the poore faſte.
Tobie.
What anſwereſt yu to that Theophast? me thinkes Eustace ſpeaketh reaſō.
Theo.
I would he had leſſe reaſon ſo to ſaie, but yet he taketh eueryevery thyng at the worſt. For he loketh ſo muche at thoſe that dooe not their duetie, that he forgetteth to looke on thoſe that doe it. But put the caſe that there wer greater diſorder in this matter on our behalfe then there is. I would ye Papiſtes (whom Euſtace now defendeth) would ſo enuie vsus, that in ſpite of vsus, thei would become more charitable and honeſt then either thei or we bee yet, and that thei would ſurmounte vsus in all vertues. But though thei be holden for neuer ſo zealous in their Religion, yet I feare not that thei will ſo diſhonor vsus, as I hauehave wiſhed.
Tobie.
I think that neither thei nor you are ſo ſpitefully bent, to goe about to diſhonor one an other after this ſort, how ſpitful ſo euer ye be one againſt an ot…er in other thinges. But we will leaue ſuche occaſiōs in whiche ſome will whiten themſelues in blackyng other, and talke we again of Iulian the Apostata, whoſe ſtorie thou haſte not yet ended. Thou haſt already told, how he tranſfigured hymſelf into a white deuil diuers waies, but thou haſte not yet declared, how the white Deuill become blacke.
Theo.
Whē he ſaw, that by all the meanes that he could deuiſe, he could not aboliſhe the Chriſtian Religion, and eſtabliſh and augument the Heathen Religion, but that contrariwiſe it increaſed more and more, he was merueilous angrie, and in ſuche rage, as he could not forbeare, but in the ende manifeſtly to open it. And here vponupon he forbad the Chriſtians, the reading of the Heathen Poetes, Orators, and Philoſophers: to the ende that thei might not alledge thelm for aucthoritie againſte the Heathens. For, he vſed to ſaie: the Chriſtians dooe pricke vsus and thruſte vsus through, with our owne Fathers, becauſe thei did confounde the Heathens with their owne bookes: And whipped thē with their owne Roddes, as the faithfull at this daie dooe whipp the Papiſtes. For, if we had none other bookes but their own, we ſhould hauehave ſufficient to condemne them all of falſe religion and abuſe. Wherefore if thei would doe well, thei ſhould rather forbid the faithful to read their bookes, then the holy ſcripture. For, the diſhonor is the greater vntounto them, if thei bee condemned by their owne writinges, & by ſuche bookes as thei make of greater aucthoritie, then the ſcripture it ſelf, for that thei will rule y• doctrine therof according to ye contētes of theſame bokes.
Tobie.
But did not Iulian the Apostata otherwiſe perſecute the chriſtians, then to forbid them the readyng of theſe bookes.
Theo.
He could not wholy forbeare perſecutyng of thē, and would hauehave vſed more crueltie, if he had durſt. But his deuil was ſore troubled in this. For, when he would hauehave plaied the black deuill, and hauehave ſpewed out his ſwellyng venim, two thinges hindered hym: The one was that, whereof I ſpake before, that is, that he ſawe that it profited little or nothyng to retourne to that firſt furie, wherewith he vſed of olde tyme to ſtirre and enflame auncient Tyrauntes, to ſuche cruell perſecutiō againſt the Chriſtians. For, he had often prooued full ſore againſt his will. O how the fleſhe and conſtancie of Chriſtians had repulſed the ſharpe pointes of the cuttyng ſwordes of tyrauntes, quenched their furies, & vanquiſhed all their rage and furie. On the other ſide, this Deuill ſawe, that in Iulians tyme the nomber of the Chriſtians was ſo greate, that Iulian could not vſe greeuous and cruel perſecution amongſt them, without his hinderaunce, and great daunger of his perſon and Empire. For, his court, yea and his campe were full of them. Yea how many Lordes, Captaines, and Officers had he in his Court that were Chriſtians? amōgſt whom Valentinian that was Emperour after him, was in great authoritie. Who ſo little feared in Iulians time to declare the honor & reuerence that he beare to the Chriſtian religiō, and how he hated Iulians Paganiſme, and that entring on a daie in Iulians company into the Temple of Fortune, (whom the Panims helde for a Goddeſſe) he ſtrooke a Prieſt on the eare which ſprinckled Holy water at the entrie of the tēple, becauſe he threw a fewe drops on his Cloake: and tolde hym that he had ſpoyld hym, and not purged hym. For the Panims beleeued as our Papiſtes now a daies doe, that ſinnes were purged awaie by Holy water. Seing then yt Valentinian durſt bee ſo hardy in the preſence of Iulian hymſelf his Emperor & Prince, Iulian had not ſo little vnderſtandyng but he did wel foreſee and cōſider, what trouble he ſhould bryng not onelyonly his Court in, but alſo his Empire, if his deuil ſhould become a black deuill and tirannous perſecutor. Wherefore, he was conſtrained to countefaite the white Deuil, & diſſemblingly to let many matters ſlippe, whiche neuertheleſſe were greate greefe and harte breakyng to hym: But he was fame to bee patient perforce. And when he ſawe that the Chriſtian religion proſpered more and more, when thei had any releaſe without perſecution, this white Deuill forgetting the maſke wherwith he was diſguiſed, falling into a great rage, came to his natural and firſt occupation, and became a black Deuill as before. And then knowyng not at whiche ende to begin, but perceiuyng all thynges went from euill to worſe, beeyng at his wittes ende, he knewe not what part to plaie.
Tobie.
Verely hee had a troubleſome parte to plaie, and not without cauſe, for he had to doe with a very ſtrong aduerſarie, when he had to do with God. For were he white Deuill, black Deuill, or trāſformed into what Deuill he would, God knewe hym well enough what maſke ſo euer he tooke on, and knew the waie how to ouerthrowe all his enterprizes and practizes, and to confounde and ouercome hym.
Theo.
There are many now adaies in the world that plaie the ſame parte, and amongſt them many that are, Apostates as Iulian was: for thei hauehave had ſufficient knowledge of the Goſpell, to be condēned with him: But theſe fellowes are as much troubled to play thoſe parts that thei play as Iulian and his Deuill was. For thei ſee yt it is impoſſible to finde water inough to quēch the fire of the Goſpel which is kindled round about them on eueryevery ſide. Thei ſee there is no hope to quenche it by their fires, as heretofore thei hauehave thought. For experience hath taught them, that one fire quencheth not an other, but rather enflameth it the more. Thei ſee alſo into what daunger thei are like to bring themſelues, if thei continue ſuche Tarmagantes and plaie the blacke Deuils as thei hauehave doen heretofore. And therefore now thei beg in to plaie the white Deuils, more then thei hauehave doen, & are contented to confeſſe that their cruell and rigorous maner was not the beſt nor ſureſt waie for them. For this cauſe thei are contented to goe more gently to work, and to hide their black Deuils hornes more then thei had wont, til thei ſee occaſion to ſhew them againe, more ſafely, & accordyng as their ſhal ſee their ſtrength encreaſe or deminiſhe, and as their deſired meanes ſhall be graunted or debarred thē. For looke thei neuer ſo ſmoothe, it is eaſie to be iudged what thei pretende, and that thei counterfaite the white Deuilles, but onelyonly becauſe thei cānot be black Deuils, or ſuche as maie beare the whole ſwaie.
Tobie.
I vnderſtande now what thou meaneſt, let them play their partes as thei can, ſeyng thei can not as thei would: and in ye meane while make thou ready to ſhew vsus farther of white Deuilles, as thou promiſeſt, before thou toldeſt vsus of Iulian the Apostata, and of thoſe Deuils parts that he plaied.