Book of Christian Questions and Answers — Theodore Beza

Book of Christian Questions and Answers · Theodore Beza

Queſt. Bee it ſo: and therfore I pray you ſhew me what you call Prouidence.

Anſ. I meane by it, not onelyonly that vnſpeakable What prouidence is.power, wherby it commeth to paſſe, that God hath foreſéene all thinges from euerlaſtinge, and moſt wiſely prouided for all thinges beefore hande: but alſo that eternal decrée or Ordinaunce of the moſt wiſe and rightuous god, whereby euerye thinge that hathe bin, hathe bin: and euerye thinge that is, is: and euerye thinge that ſhalbée, ſhalbee, accordinge as it lyked hym too appoyncte from euerlaſtinge.

Que. Say you then that this Prouidēce is the brynger to paſſe and the diſpoſer of all thinges.

Anſ. It is ſo, and that in ſuch wiſe, as itThe prero gatiue of Prouidence. deſerueth ſome excellenter name, than to be called a cauſe. For this is it that ordereth all cauſes, and ruleth euen the particulareſt fallings out of them, ſo as they may bee guyded to theyr appointed endes.

Queſt. But there bee ſome Angels euill,Obiection againſt gods Prouidence. and men are euill by nature, and what ſo euer procedeth from either of theſe (except it be from mē that be regenerated) muſt needes bee euill, as the thing that procedeth frō an euill begīning: but god cānot be the author of euil things. Ergo he is not the author of all thinges, conſidering that ſo many euill thinges are to bee excepted.

Anſ. As well eche one of the Angels (forNote this there can no offpring bee graunted in a ſpiritual nature) as alſo the firſt perſons of mankinde, (that is too wit Adam and Eue,) were created good. And thereforeAnother obiection againſt the ſame. none of them both are too bee diſplaced out of Gods ordinance.

Queſt. Admit it bee ſo, as touching that originall and firſt ſtate of theirs. But ſeing they be nowe corrupted and full of lewdenes, how can ye bring them within the compaſſe of that eternall ordinance of god whiche is ſo workefull, but you muſt wrape god vp in their naughtineſſe?

Anſ. Do you ſuppoſe it could ſtand with equitie, euen by the iudgement of themſeluesGods prouidence reſembled by a clocke (bee they deuilles or bée they the wickedeſt ſort of men,) that they ſhoulde therfore be exempted from ſubiection too their maker, bicauſe they hauehave bin ſtubborne ageinſte him? And yet muſte this néedes follow vppon your ſayinge. But thus ſtandeth y^• caſe. I pray you did you neuer beholde a clocke, wherin a certein wheele greater than the reſt turneth to y^• right hand, and carieth all the reſt aboute with him, ſome to the right hande, and other ſome too the left hand, with a mere contrary motion one too another?

Queſt. Yes: & truly I hauehave wondered oftentimes, that mannes cunning ſhoulde be able to repreſent too mine eyes, the thinge that mannes minde is ſcarce able too atteyne vntoo in the compaſſes of the ſkyes.

An. Aſſure thy ſelf that y^• ſame is a trew image of the diuine prouidence, ſo thou except this thing whervnto nothing can bee found fully like, no not euen in the compaſſes of the ſkies, and much leſſe in thoſe handwrought Inſtruments, bycauſe nothing is equal, no nor (to ſpeake properly) like vntounto the higheſt (namely, that God almighty whome I nowe compare too the greateſt wheele which is the mouer of all the reſt) is in ſuche wiſe in the worlde, as that he is no parte of the worlde, and yet hath geuen ſelfmouing too eche one of the wheeles that mooue themſelues: and that in ſuchwiſe, as he himſelfe is by no meanes mooued, and yet mooueth al things according too his eternall prouidence. And this miſtery of Gods prouidence was repreſented to vsus by gods appointment in the viſion of Ezechiell, wherin wee hauehave this to markEzechiel. 1 5. &c. further, that thoſe fourfold images were ouercouered with wings, & the wheeles folded one within another, and that God was plaſed higheſt aboue al things: leaſt wee might ſurmize the mouer himſelfe to be moued togither with the cauſes, or leaſt wee might ouercuriouſly imagine ourſelues able to perceyue the reaſon of thoſe ſeueral mouings. This foundation being laid, I Anſwer three things. The firſt is, that the inſtruments which hauehave life & are endued with reaſon, (of which ſort bee Angells and men) are ſo ſtyred by god their maker: as that they alſo ſtirre themſelues by an inward ſelfmouing of theyr owne, and therfore that in the bringing to paſſe of one action, there mete two cauſes, that is to wit god who is diſſeuered from the Inſtrumente and yet geueth y^• Inſtrument beginning to moue it ſelfe: and the very inſtrument moouing it ſelfe. Another is, that theſe inſtruments are ſo mooued by God, as that he himſelfe ſtirreth alwayes well, but the inſtruments, (if they be euil) go a contrary motiō, that is to ſay, alwaies amiſſe: but if they be good, ſo as the firſt author who mooueth alwaies well, and the inſtrument which mooueth it, doo agree: then foloweth a good and commendable worke. The third is, that god ſo mooueth the euil inſtruments, (for it is they only whō we hauehave now in queſtiō) & they on the other ſide are ſo moued by thēſelues, that by reaſon of the dublem… ning beginninge, there is alſo a dubble work, (which ſeemeth notwithſtanding to bee but all one,) and the ſame is good in reſpect of the good beginning, and euil in reſpect of the euill beginning.

Queſt. I would hauehave theſe things inlightened with ſome examples.

Anſ. I will ſo, and that with aſſured andExamples of Gods prouidence. euident examples: but firſt I will put to this diſtinction. That God the notable workmaiſter, vſing the euil inſtrumentes well whatſoeuer they be, doth either match thē one againſte another, or benefite the good by y^• ſeruice of them: & whither of theſe two thinges ſo euer he doth, no man y^e is in his right wittes wil deny but it is good, namely either to puniſhe the bad, or to benefite the good. Now let vsus alledge examples. That Ioſeph cameIoſeph. Gēn. 45. 7 &. 50. 20 by Gods prouidence intoo Egipte, and was aduaunced there vntoo great preheminence, that hee might bee the preſeruer of the Churche: both hee himſelfe ſayeth it, and the matter it ſelfe declares it. And what inſtrumentes did the lorde vſe too the compaſſinge of the matter?Sathan an inſtrument of Gods prouidence. Euen Sathan who ſtirred his brethren againſte their moſt innocent brother, the very wicked intēt of the ſame brethren, the couetouſneſſe of the merchantmen, and the luſt of a moſte miſcheuous woman. All theſe ſinned moſt gréeuouſly, in aſmuche as they were the beginners of their owne doings. But God, vſing wel thoſe moſte vngracious inſtrumentes which thought vppon no ſuch thinge, defended his ſeruauntes from the famine, ſettled them in a fruiteful ſoile, nurtured his faithfull ſeruaunt Ioſeph, and finallye aduaunced him too the higheſt degrée of honour. Is it not a moſte rightfull worke of gods iuſtice, that naughty perſons ſhoulde fordoo themſelues? So puniſhed he the Madianits, vſinge thervntooMadianit… Iudg. 7. 22. the ſpirit of diſcorde, and the vngracious wilfulnes of the murtherers themſelues, ſo as they made aſſaulte one vponupon another, doubtles with a wicked minde,2. Kings. 12 22. Achitophell 2. Kings. 15 34 &. 17 14 23. Abſolon. but yet by the rightful iuſtice of God. It was good that Dauid ſhoulde bee chaſtiſed, euen after his ſinne was acknowledged and forgiuen. It was good alſo that Achitophilles trecherie & Abſolons trayterous minde ſhoulde bee diſcouered and ſorely puniſhed. To y^e performance of theſe matters, y^• lord vſeth the outrage of ſathā, Achitophells own falſhartednes and Abſolons owne traiterous ambition, horrible lecherie, and vnnaturalnes: by which euill inſtruments the lord executed many thinges excéeding well. For hee ſhewed howe muche hée miſlyketh whooredome and craftineſſe: hée chaſtiſed2. kinges 17. 23. 2. Kinges. 18. 9. &c. Dauid fatherly: hee puniſhed Achitophell by his owne handes: and finally he made Abſolon to caſt away himſelf. The ſcripture beareth witneſſe, y^• our being tryed and conſequently our chaſtiſement is of1. Pet. 3. 17 1. theſ. 3. 3. 4 Gal. 6. 14. 2. cor. 12. 9 the good wyll of our heauenly father, that thereby he maye be glorified and his power made perfect in our weakenes. And except we bee of that minde: what comfort is there for the godly in ſo great myſeries? For in the triall of Iob after this maner, there is vſed the ſpitefulneſſe of Sathan, and the couetouſnes and exceſſiue crueltie of the robbers. Sathan therfore dyd ſinne in heaping ſo manye myſeries vponupon the ſeruaunt of god: and the robbers did wickedly in ſtealinge awaye another mannes goodes. But the Lorde did excéeding well in triynge his ſeruant and in ſhewinge y^e all ſathans attemptes againſte the churche are in vaine. Finallye you will not denye, but that the excellenteſt of all Gods workes, was the reemption of mākinde. For the father de…ueredAct. 2. 23 &. 4. 28 Rom. 8. 22 Eph. 5. 25 his owne ſonne for our ſinnes, …y his foredetermined purpoſe, and by …he foreappointment of his eternall or…inance, according as Peter & the church …f Ieruſalem ſaye, and the father is hée …hat hath not ſpared his owne ſonne for …ur ſakes. And what maner of inſtrumē …es hath he put too the performinge of ſoThe Inſtruments of chriſts death great a matter? Surely the woorſt that …oulde be (for no good mā could hauehave foūd …n his hart too purſew a giltles perſon, …nd much leſſe to betraye him, condemne him, & crucifice him): Namely euen the malice of Sathan who was entered into the harte of Iudas, the curſed couetouſnesLuke. 22 3. 4. Iohn. 12. 6 Mat. 27. 18 Iohn. 19. 8 and treaſon of Iudas himſelfe, the moſte deſperate enuye and vnrecouerable malice of the Iewes, and finally Pilates niceneſſe and vntowarde dealinge. So is there none of theſe whiche ſinned not moſte heynouſlye, and all of them were payde afterwarde wyth moſt ſore puniſhement at Gods hand for the ſame. And yet in the meane whyle, by thys ſelfeſame worke he ſaued vsus from ſinne and death.

Que. But hereby there ſeemeth not anyObiection againſt the foreſaide examples. other thing to be gathered, thā that the purpoſes of euill perſones are turned by God to a contrary ende.

An. Yes: hereby alſo it is cōcluded, that God mooueth euen the euill, wel & effectually, to bring his owne worke to paſ…e by them. But you muſt beare in minde that whiche I hauehave ſayde: namely, y^• god dooth in ſuche wi…e mooue euill perſons well, too bringe his owne good worke about, not as a hammer or a hatchet in aworkemans hand, which are tooles that can do nothinge at all of themſelues: but in ſuche wiſe as the euill perſons doo alſo mooue themſelues ill, too will amiſſe and to do amiſſe, bicauſe that they themſelues are the woorkinge cauſes of their owne euill dooinges. Nowe alſo this muſte bee added, that God (truely) worketh in the good and by the good: and that hée woorkes by the euill, but not in the euill.

Queſt. VVhat difference then is thereDifference betweene … and By in theſe little woordes?

Anſ. Vndoubtedly greate. For God vſeth both the one and the other as inſtruments as ofte as he liſteth: and therfore he is rightly ſayde too woorke his worke as well by the one as by y^• other. But God worketh in thoſe only, whom he breatheth vppon with his holy ſpirit, and whom he ruleth with his holy ſpiritRom. 8. 14. 1. cor. 12. 11 Eph. 1. 11 eyther ſtrengthening them in goodnes (namely the Angells, and the men that bee regenerated) or elſe indewing them with new goodneſſe, as when he ſancti…teth Ioh. 14. 17 Rom. 1. 26 &. 28. 2. tim. 2. 2…his ſeruantes firſt of all. But as for the reſt, he worketh not in them by do… ing any thing within them himſelf: but giueth them vp to be moued and miſruled partly by their own, luſtes and partly by the deuill, howbeit in ſuch wiſe as theyr lewdneſſe can neyther will nor worke any thing, but that which he …ath moſt rightfully ordeined.

Queſtion.Permiſſion or ſufferāce. VVhat thinke you then of the name of permiſsion or ſufferance?

Anſwere. If by the name of Sufferance, there bee ment that difference which I ſpake of euen nowe, namely that God woorketh not in the euyll perſones, but leaueth them vp to Sathan and to their owne luſtes: I myſlyke it no whit.

But if Sufferance bee matched agayn… willingnes, I reiect it, firſt as falſe, an… willingnes.ſecondly as vtterly againſt reaſon. That it is falſe it is manifeſt by this, that i… god ſuffer anything to bee done again… his will, then ſurely is he not God, that is to ſay Almighty. But if he be ſaid to ſuffer a thinge as though he were reche… leſſe: how farre are wée of from the opinion of Epicure. It remayneth then, that looke what he ſuffereth to bee doone, he ſuffereth it willyngly. Willyngeneſſe therefore is not to bée matched agaynſt Sufferance. Agayne if it bee falſe it muſt néedes alſo be againſt reaſon. And I ſay that this abſurditie may appeare ſufficiently too any héedefull perſon by this, that the Aucthors of the diſtiction wherby Sufferance is matched agaynſt willingneſſe, doo by that meane not only not attein to that which they would, (that is to wit, that god ſhould not be accounted the author of euill, which thinge wee acknowledge with al our harts) but alſo bryng the flatte contrary too paſſe. For who is more in faulte then he, whiche a greate way of foreſeeyng a miſchéef that is too come, and being able too diſappoint the ſame with his only becke not onelyonly diſappointeth it not, but alſo ſuffereth it that is to ſay giueth leaue to execute the miſchiefe, (for not euen they that bee of that opinion, doo deny, but that Sathan (and much rather wicked men) hauehave not any power to doo any miſcheef, but by appointment) in caſe as if a man hauing a cruell Lion ſhet vp in a cage, myght with eaſe kepe him in from hurting folk and yet not only wold not, but alſo wold let him looſe and ſuffer him to runne vponupon this man or that man? Perchaunce thou wilt ſay, that ſo mennes ſinnes deſerue. I graunt it. Yet notwithſtanding it remayneth ſtill, that Goddes willingneſſe matcheth with hys ſufferaunce, (lyke as when a Magiſtrate delyuereth an offender into the executioners hand, appoynting him the manner of hys punyſhement) and therefore that there is no reaſon to ſay, that ſufferance ſtriueth againſt willingnes.

Queſt. VVhat then? doo euill perſonsHow euill perſons performe Gods will. performe Gods will.

Anſ. If you take will in his generall ſingnification, that is to wyt, for that thinge whyche God hath willingly determined too hauehave come too paſſe, and refer the woord Doo, not too the intent and purpoſe of the wicked, but too the very falling out of the matter: then ſurely God executeth his will (that is to ſaye the thinge that he hath determined from euerlaſtinge (euen by the wicked alſo: according too this ſaying, who ſhal reſiſt gods will? But if that by the nameRom. 9. 19. of Will, yee meene the thinge that of it ſelfe is acceptable vntoo God, and will hauehave the woord Doo, too importe a ryght affection of obeying: then truely I aunſwer, that the wicked ſorte, not onelyonlyPſal. 5. 5 Mark. 3. 35 doo not Gods will, but alſo are caryed wholly to the contrary part.

Queſt. Surely I hauehave not any thing too alledge ageynſt it. Notwithſtanding, IObiection againſt prouidence, bycauſe God created all things good come backe ageyne too that which you hauehave aunſwered: namely that God created all thynges good at the beginnyng. From whence then commes their faultineſſe? For if it entered without Gods appoyntment, then is your ſaying impeached: namely that nothynge at all is exempted from goddes Prouidence, no not euen from hys working prouidence. But if Goddes appoyntment forewent it: (I ſpeake it not of purpoſe too blaſpheme hym) howe is he not the author of all euill?

Anſ. The cauſe of the faultineſſe of the Angelles and of the firſte man, was the willing inclination of their owne willes vntounto euill. For god had created them but chaungeably good: for, too bee of it ſelfe vnchaungeably good, is peculiar onelyonly vntounto God alone.

Que. Then both the Angels that neuer fell nor neuer ſhall fall, and alſo all they that ſhalbee gathered vp into euerlaſtinge life, ſhould be Gods.

Anſ. I deny the conſequence. For, thatWhy the bliſſed Angelles neuer fell nor neuer ſhall. the bleſſed Angelles neuer fell nor neuer ſhall fall, and that there ſhall not bée any ende of their euerlaſting bleſſedneſſe: it commeth not of their vnchaungeable nature, (for y^• is peculiar vntounto God alone) but bycauſe they bee continuallye vnderpropped wyth the power of the vnchangeable god: whiche power if it ſhold forſake them (as forſake them it might if god would) then doubtleſſe might they not onlye bee chaunged, but alſo vtterly baniſhe awaye & be brought to nothing. And therefore I hauehave ſayde, that the cauſe of faultineſſe is the willinge inclination of the will (which was made good in déede, howbeit yet able too bée chaunged) vntounto euill. For the ſaide wyll was chaungeable, by Gods ordinaunce who created it ſo, bicauſe that otherwiſe looke howe many vnchāgeable natures he had made, ſo manye Gods had he made. And chaunged it was at Gods forſaking of it (for too whom is hee bounde) but yet by chaunging it ſelf of it owne accorde, ſo as the cauſe of faultineſſe maye ſéeme to bée imputed, rather to forſakinge, than to infor…inge.

Queſt. But if this chaūge happened notAn obiectiō that God ſhould be the author of euill without gods foredeterminatiō, verelye it may ſeeme that al this inconuenience is to be fathered vponupon him.

Anſ. That foloweth not, foraſmuche as gods determination tooke not awaye the will of y^• firſt man, & ſo alſo neyther hys aduiſement or chooſing, but only ordered it. For he was chāged by falling vtterlye of his owne accorde, which thing is to bée vnderſtoode muche more of the falling of the Angels, whoſe faultines krept vponupon them frō at home, and perhappes y^• was the cauſe that mooued God to hauehave pitye vponupon men whiche fell by the ſtepping in of the diuell, and not too hauehave pitie of the diuell and his Angelles.

Queſt. But otherwiſe it could not come to paſſe, than god had ordeined ſhould come to paſſe.

An. I graunt both. For neither were it reaſon that the ſaid euerlaſting ordināce (wherein I ſhewed a little erſt, that all things and eueryevery thing without exception, are comprehended) ſhould be ſhet out from the changinge of the chéefe péece of worke. And too …uouch y^• ſuch maner of ordinaunce were changeable, it were a poinct of wickednes. Let both o… thē therfore be moſt trew. Yet doth it not therevppon folow, eyther that thē faulte is in God, who (as I ſayd) doth alwayes well yea euen then alſo when his inſtrumentes offend: or that man is without fault, as who hath not offended but willingly. For this neceſſitye where throughe the thing that god had ordeined muſt néedes come to paſſe, hath not takē awaye either will or happening, but rather hath ordered and diſpoſed them: conſideringe that amonge the cauſes of mennes doinges, euen the chéefeſt cauſe is will.

Queſt. Your meaninge then is, that theThe neceſſitie inforceth not mannes will. neceſſity of choſig that which god hath ordeined from the beginninge repugneth not againſt will. But happening is ſaide to be that whiche maye either fall out or not fal out.

An. Yea and I ſay more plainly, y^• willingneſſe or happeninge are not taken away by neceſſity, but by compulſion. As for example: It was of neceſſity y^• chriſteMath. 26. 54. 56 Iohn. 13. 11 18. ſhould die in the age, time, and place fore ordeined from euerlaſtinge, for elſe the Prophetes might hauehave lyed. And yet if yée hauehave an eye too the naturall diſpoſition of Chriſtes fleſh by it ſelfe, without the foredetermination of God: there is no doubte but by nature hée might hauehave liued longer, and therfore that in that reſpect hée dyed by happe. Chriſtes bones might hauehave bin broken, if ye looke vponupon the nature of bones by themſelues: butIoh. 19. 36 if yée looke vntoo Gods ordinaunce, they coulde no more bee broken, than it is poſſible that God ſhoulde alter his determination. And therefore the vnchaungeable neceſſitie of Goddes ordinaunce, dooth not take awaye the happeninge of the ſeconde cauſes, but diſpoſe it. Alſo itActes. 17. 3 was of neceſſitye that Chriſt dyed by the ordinance of his father, & yet he dyed willingly: yea and God forbid that euer wee ſhould dye vnwillingly, who notwithſtanding muſt of neceſſitie dy once. And what more? God himſelfe is moſt fréely, yea & moſt willingly good: and yet is it vtterly impoſſible that he ſhold not bée good. Ergo willingneſſe and neceſſity are not repugnant. For whereas it was of neceſſity y^• of two repugnant thynges Adam muſt chooſe but the one: although none of them both was within the compaſſe of his owne wyll: yet ſurely the one of them was ſet downe in the euerlaſting ordynance of God, which ordynance was bothe out of Adams will and aboue his will, & yet compelled not his will: but rather foraſmuch as his will could not take bothe of them, it willingly and of it owne accord inclined finally too that part, which the ordinance of god had foreſet.

Queſt. But ſurely, that neceſsity which isNeceſſitie of ſinning excuſeth not ſinne entered in together with luſt, into mans hart, in ſuch wiſe as he cannot but ſinne, (according as thou haſt declared afore) ſeemeth too take away happening.

An. Although I ſhoulde graunt it too be ſo, yet cannot men bee exempted from blame: firſt becauſe this neceſſitye of ſinning wherwith mankinde is now ouerwhelmed, cometh not of the Creat… ▪ but of the willing inclination of mans naturall will vntounto euill, as I ſaide afore. And who wil think it ſtrange, y^• he ſhoulde be burned, whiche hath willingly caſt himſelfe into the fyre? Againe, althoughe it bee not of hap but of neceſſitie, that man is now caried vntoo euill, (conſideringe that ſith he is corrupted by ſin, hee is (as the Apoſtle ſaieth) become the bondſlaueRom. 7. 14 Iohn. 8. 36 of ſin, and ſo remaineth til he bee ſet free by y^• ſonne of god) yet notwithſtanding, that which he dooth, he dooth it willinglyeRom. 8. 7. and vnconſtreined. For like as he cannot but doo euill, ſo alſo hee delighteth not in any other than euill, albeit that the euill lurkinge ſometime vnderunder the coloure of good, do make him take it for good. And therefore not euen this neceſſitie whiche was brought in by willinge fall, taketh awaye the willinge moouing of the will. Which thing being graūted, it foloweth that man is verely the cauſe of ſin, inaſmuch as although he ſin of neceſſity, yet he ſinneth willingly. And yet ſay I not that happeninge is taken away by this neceſſity nother. For although that in mā which is hild bound vnderunder neceſſity of ſinning and is not yet regenerated, there remaineth nowe no deliberating whether he may chooſe the trew good, or the euil, as there was in mans nature afore his fall: yet notwithſtaning there remaineth a deliberating betwene euill and euill. For where the caſe ſtandeth not vppon choiſe of this or that, there is no deliberating or debating. Now then, euen the headieſt and haſtieſt men that be, doo deliberate: but neither can they vnderſtand anye thinge, nor thinge any thing, and therfore much leſſe deliberate of any thing but eyther w^t ſtraying from y^• good, or elſe plainly ageinſt their conſcience: ergo al their deliberating is buſied aboute the chooſing betweene twoo euilles or mo. And their preferringe of the one or the other, commeth altogether by hap as in reſpect of their owne voluntary will, which happening y^• vnchangeable ordenaunce of God dooth no more take away now in men corrupted, than it tooke it awaye in olde tyme in mankind vncorrupted.

Qu. The ſum then of the thinges whichThe concluſion of the diſcourſe cō cerning prouidence thou haſt ſpokē concerning prouidence is this: that nothing in the whole world cometh too paſſe agaynſte Gods will or without his knoweledge (that is to ſay▪ rashly & caſually) but altogether in ſuch wiſe as God himſelf hath ordained them from euerlaſting, diſpoſing all the mean cauſes moſt mightely and effectually, ſo as they be caried on to their appoynted end of neceſſity as in reſpect of his ordinance: and yet that he is not an authour or allower of any euil, bicauſe he dealeth alwaies moſt rightfuly, with what inſtrumentes ſo euer he execute his woorke.

An. So it is.

Queſt. This is yet againe the thing that troubleth mee. For although I ſee that God worketh rightefully by the euill ſorte: yet not withſtandinge, if all and eueryevery thing be done by gods eternall or dinaunce, ſo as nothinge at all may bee excluded: then it remaineth that the euill doinges of the euill perſones, euenOf fatherige euill vppon god. in reſpect that they be euill, are not exempted from Gods ordinaunce, whiche thing me thinks cannot be ſaid without wickedneſſe.

An. Neeedes muſt he be ſore troubled & to no purpoſe which laboreth to comprehend gods wiſdom within the bounds of his owne reaſon. For I pray you, if you woulde go aboute too conteine the whole Ocean in a drinkinge Cup, what ſhould you elſe doo but onelyonly loſe your labour, & bée counted a foole for ſo doinge? And yet more tollerable (thoughe not too bée talkt of) is the proporcioninge betwéene the maine ſea and the leaſt cup that can bée, than betwéene gods wiſdom, and the fooliſhneſſe of mans moſt corrupt wit. Neuertheleſſe, I ſuppoſe y^• this whiche thou obiecteſt may alſo be fitlye anſwered vntoo. Therfore I graūt thée euē this alſo, that the euill workes of euill men, euen in that they bée euill in reſpecte of themſelues, are not done againſte gods will or without his knoweledge: for were it ſo, then ſhould eyther Godleſneſſe or elſe Epicuriſhenes folowe of neceſſitie. But I ſaye further, that if thou hauehave an eye too Gods ordinaunce: the verye euill it ſelfe hath a reſpecte of goodneſſe, althoughe, it bee euill in it ſelfe, ſo as this Paradox of Auſtins is verye trewe namelye that it is good alſo that there ſhould bée euilles, too the ende that God ſhould not ſuffer euilles to bée: and truly in not ſufferinge: hée is not vnwillinge, but willing.

Queſt. VVhat then? Shall wee ſaye thatgod willeth none iniquitie. God willeth iniquitie?

An. God forbid for it is the horribleſt of all blaſphemies to ſaye ſo. But ſtaye thy ſelf awhile I beſéech thee, that I may expound that whiche I hauehave ſayd ſo truely and godlilye as it cannot bee denyde, but god muſt alſo bée auouched not to bée the Iudge of the world. The name of Will is taken ſometime in the largeſt ſignification, for that whiche god ordaineth or appointeth. In whiche ſignification wee muſt vtterly ſay, either y^• god willeth all thinges, (y^• is to ſay y^• nothinge commeth to paſſe which God will not hauehave done): or that God is not almightye, if neuer ſo ſmal a thing com to paſſe which he wold not hauehave don: or elſe y^• god regardeth not all thinges, if any thing come too paſſe he cares not how. And ſomtime by y^e name of Will there is ment onelyonly that which liketh him bicauſe it is good of it owne nature: and after this manner the faith full onelyonly are ſaide too obey God and too execute his will, béecauſe y^• in this ſence God is ſaide too wyll (that is too ſaye tooPſal. 5. 4▪ allowe and except) onelye that whiche is good, and not too wyll iniquitie. Which will of his is vttered fully vntounto vsus in his lawe: but his other will is not ſo, but in part. For who knoweth what ſhal befall but this one daye? And nothing ſhall béefall but that which God hath from euerlaſtinge both willed and ordeyned too befall.

Queſt. Can God bee thought too hauehaveHow God willeth or not willeth euill. willed or ordeined any thinge which he miſliketh, and ſo conſequently which is euill?

Anſ. Truly it muſt néedes bee confeſſed, that whatſoeuer god hath ordeined, it is ordeined altogether willingly: but euen herein alſo appéereth rightly his infinite wiſedome, that with him euen the darknes hath a reſpect of light, (yea and that in ſuch wiſe, as it neuertheleſſe both is & continueth darkneſſe ſtill) that is to ſaye, it is good that there ſhoulde be alſo ſome euill: bicauſe god findeth the reaſon how it may come too paſſe, y^• the thing whiche both is and contineweth euil ſtill of it owne nature, maye neuertheleſſe hauehave a reſpect of goodnes before him, and howe the thinge that is againſt his wil, (that is to ſay, which of it own nature is vnrightuous, and therefore pleaſeth not God) may not come to paſſe without hys will, that is to ſaye, without his ordinance. As for examples ſake. That God ſaueth his elect by redemption fréelye geuen in hys ſonne Chriſte, it is too his owne excedinge great glory, which otherwiſe ſhold not hauehave ſhone forth. But man ſhoulde not hauehave needed redemption from ſinne and death, excepte there had béene ſinne and death: Ergo in reſpecte of Goddes ordinaunce it was good that ſinne and death ſhoulde enter into the worlde.

And yet the ſame ſinne, both is and contineweth ſo ſinfull of it owne nature, asRom. 5. 15 amendes coulde not bee made for it, but by moſt terrible puniſhement. Agayne wée recouer muche more in Chriſt, thā wee forwent in Adam: Ergo Adams fall was the beſt and profitableſt thinge that coulde bee for vsus, as in reſpecte of God, who by this wonderfull meane prepareth a kingdome of euerlaſtinge glory for vsus in Chriſte: & yet this fall is ſo euill of it owne nature, that euen wee that beléeue and are iuſtified, doo feele many miſteries and miſchaunces which ſpringe of it, euen too the death. Alſo it is grealy to the glorye of god, that he ſheweth himſelfe a moſte ſore puniſher of all ſinne. But if there had beene no ſinne there had bin no gap open for this iudgement to come in at: Ergo in reſpecte of gods ordinaunce, it was good that there ſhoulde bee ſin, and that the ſame ſhould afterward bee ſpred abroade, too bee puniſhed with euerlaſtinge paines in the Deuilles and in all that bee ſet without Chriſte. Alſo Sainct Peter ſayeth, It is1. Pet. 3. 17 y^• will of God, (that is too ſay it is his ordinaunce) that when wee doo well, wee ſhoulde bee miſintreated. But hee that …ooth well, cannot be hurte but by ſinne: Ergo in reſpecte of God that willeth it, (that is to ſaye whiche ordayneth it) it is good that there ſhoulde bee perſecutors of the Churche, whome notwythſtan…ynge hee iuſtlye puniſheth afterwarde moſte ſeuerelye as offenders agaynſte …is will, that is to ſay as dooers agaynſt that which he alloweth. Therfore euen by the expreſſe words of y^• Apoſtles, the thing that is ageinſt Gods will (that is too ſaye againſt that which he alloweth and commaundeth) commeth not to paſſe without his will, that is to ſaye without his ordinaunce: and yet can it not therefore be ſaid, that god is contrary to himſelfe, or that he willeth iniquitie: accordyng as Auſtin doth rightly conclude ageinſt Iulian, out of the word of god.

Queſt. Therefore it ſeemeth right thatOf ſufferāce & willingneſſe. ſufferance ſhould be diſtinguished from willingneſſe.

An. What I deeme meete to be thought of this diſtinction, I hauehave ſpoken a little afore. Truly if Sufferance bee matched ageinſt Will, that is to ſay ageinſt ordinance: ſuch ouerſetting is not only falſe but alſo fooliſh and fond, conſidering that euen in ſuche actions as are not of free choiſe by themſelues, (as for example; when marchantmen that be in daunger doo caſt out their goods, and generally as often as men chooſe the leſſe euill too auoyde the greater inconuenience) euen the heathen menne ackowledged free will too beare ſway. But if Sufferance bee matched ageinſt willingneſſe, that is to wit ageinſt that which God is willing withal, as well liked and accepted of him by it ſelfe & of it owne nature: ſo as the thing that is good of it ſelf may bee matched ageinſt that which is good but by well falling out, and which hath ſome reſpect of good in it, not of it owne nature, but in reſpect of the ende that it is guided vntoo by God, through whoſe incomprehenſible wiſedome, euen the darknes doth ſeruice vntounto the light: theu truely I admit it, ſo that this alſo be added to it, namely that the ſame is not a vaine and idle ſufferance (as a number dreame) but a moſt workful; and yet neuertheleſſe a moſt rightfull Sufferance. for the better vnderſtāding wherof, take the matter in feawe woordes too ſtande thus. I thinke thou wylt not ſaye that a iudge is but as an ydle loker on, when vppon the heering of a tranſgreſſors caſe he deliuereth him too the Shreefe too be put too this kynde of puniſhement or that. For ſurely the Shreefe doth not ſo muche put hym too death, as he is the inſtrument of the Iudge that putteth hym too death: ſo as if anye cruelty bee extended in that behalfe by the ſentence of the iudge, the ſame may bee imputed not ſo much too the executioner, as too the iudge that commaunded him.

Queſt. I graunt all this. But how manyeObiection againſt the foreſaide allegations vnlikely hoddes be there betwene theſe and the thinges that we intreate of?

Anſ. I confeſſe that. For elſe there ſhold bee no difference or at leaſ…wiſe verye ſmall betwene a like thinge and a ſame thing. Neuertheleſſe I woold hauehave y^• r… ken vp at leaſtwiſe the cheefe of them, that I may anſwer to them one by one.

Queſt. In the ſentence of Iudges there goeth tryall before: but in theſe thinges wherof you intreate, there is oftentimes no ſuch thing perceiued.

An. How many thinges are done iuſtly by the magiſtrats of this world, y^e tryall wherof is not ſene of their ſubiects? And wilt thou attribute leſſe vntounto God, who ſercheth throughly all thinges y^e lye hyd euen in the bottoms of mens hartes, as well paſt as too come?

Queſt. The Shref doth nothing but by cōmiſſiō receiued. But where hauehave the wicked me receiued any ſuch cōmaūdement as to kil one another, or to hurt good men

An. In this thou art deceiued, y^• whatſoeuer god appointed to be don, thou imagineſt him to giuegive knowledge of it with ſome loude voyce, vntounto thē whoſe ſeruice he purpoſeth to vſe in the dooinge of it. But experience it ſelfe teacheth, that y^• is not alwayes trew in neither of both the caſes: that is too ſay whither he hauehave determined to vſe mercye or to vſe iuſtice: no not euen then when hee vſeth inſtrumentes that hauehave vnderſtandinge. For who doubteth but that Pharao was ordeinedGen. 45. 8 Pſa. 1 c 5. … of God to intertaine Ioſeph, and too prepare harborow for his Churche? And yet he receiued no ſuche cōmaundement outwardly, no nor ſo muche as thought of anye ſuche thinge in himſelfe. Neuertheleſſe that was ordeyned of God, and the couert motion of Pharaos harte tended too the executinge of that whiche the Lorde had ordeined. That the Chaldies were ordeined to puniſhe the euil Iſraelites, & to narture the good, the prophets had foretold it a thouſand times, yea and that in ſuch wiſe, as Nabuchadnezer had receiued expreſſe commaundement conceruingeIere. 25. … the ſame thinge: in ſo muche as the Lord doth alſo call him his ſeruaunt. Yet did not the lord cōmaund the Chaldies anye ſuche thinge by name: but (as Ezechiell wryteth,) giuing ouer y^• kingsEzechi. 21 21. &c. hart partly to Sathan and to his Soothſayers, and partly to his owne luſtes, he inclined him of his owne ſwaye to performe that which God had determined. How much more muſt wee beleeue the ſame to be doone, as oft as the lord vſeth the thinges that want reaſon, or alſo that bee vtterly without life, as his executioners? For ſo did he call y^e Flyes, FroggsExod. 7. 18 Greſſehoppers, Hayle, and death too puniſhe Pharao. So alſo ſayeth the wyſeſtProu. 16. 33 of all men, that euen the very Lottes fall not out at aduenture. For all thinges ſerue by a ſecret motion, to execute gods ordināces. But this difference there is,Difference betweene the good in ſtrumentes & the bad in executing Gods vvill. that the good inſtrumentes do nothinge but through faith, (that is to ſay vponupon aſſurance that they be called to that which they doo,) and with a minde ſettled too obey. But as for the euill inſtrumentes, foraſmuch as they bee led with a blynde bayrde by Sathan and their own luſtes, and hauehave an eye too nothinge leſſe than to the obeying of God, againſt whoſe expreſſe woord they eyther know or ought too know that all their intentes and purpoſes doo fight: therefore they ſerue not the Lord, although God doo ſecretly vſe the trauell of them, euen agaynſt their willes, in ſuche wiſe as they doo not any thinge elſe, than that which the wonderfull woorkn…aiſter himſelfe hath ordeyned.

Queſt. Then let vsus ſtay heere cōcerning Gods eternall prouidence, frō the which I ſe not that any thing at all may be exempted: and let vsus (if it pleaſe you) proceed to predeſtinatiō, which I wold firſt and formeſt hauehave deſcribed vntounto mee.

An. Predeſtination being conſidered invvhat predeſtinacion is. generall, is nothinge elſe but the ſame thing that wee hauehave called gods determination or ordinance, howbeit as hauinge regarde to the end or worke of the very ordinance. For there is nothinge whiche the wiſe creatour of all thinges, (who doubteleſſe hath neyther made any thing …naduiſedlye, nor can bée deceyued or …lter his purpoſe,) hathe not ordeyned …othe too myddle endes, and ſpeciallye …oo ſome one vttermoſte poyncte of all. But cuſtome hath wonne, that predeſti…ation is conſidered chéefelye in the gouerninge of mankinde. Thus therefore doo I deſcribe it. I ſaye it is gods euerlaſtinge and vnchangeable ordinance, goinge in order before all the cauſes of ſaluation & dampnation, whereby god hath determined too bee glorified, in ſome by ſauinge them of his owne mere grace in Chriſte, and in otherſome by dampning thē through his rightfull iuſtice in Adam and in themſelues. And after the cuſtom of the ſcripture, wee call the former ſort the veſſels of glorye and the elect or choſen, that is too ſay folke appointed to ſaluation from before all worldes throughe mercy: and the other ſort wee call reprobates or caſtawayes, and veſſelles of wrath, that is to ſay appoincted likewiſe too rightfull dampnation from euerlaſtinge: eyther of both whiche, God hath knowen ſeuerallye from tyme without beginninge.

Queſtion.

But it is a harde caſe too ſaye, thatA worldly & ouer ſcrupulous dout there be ſome foreappointed to damnation, and therefore thou knoweſt that many referre the woorde predeſtinatiō onelyonly too the choſen, and that they ſay rather that the Reprobates are foreknowen.

An. I Inow what that meaneth. Many were afraide leaſt they ſhould make god the cauſe of the deſtruction of the reprobates, and alſo report him too bee cruell, if they ſhould confeſſe that the reprobate alſo are predeſtinated of God. But they needed too hauehave feared none of both, as ſhalbe ſhewed in dew place. Againe, that is but a fond ſtartinghole. For if foreknowledge (as they call it) cary the force of a cauſe, no leſſe than predeſtination doth: then ſay they that which they wold not ſay. But if it hauehave not: thē may they alſo ſay y^e God is not the cauſe of the ſaluatiō of them that be predeſtinated. For why? The Apoſtle in reckeninge vp theRom. 8. 19. cauſes of the ſaluation of the choſen, ſetteth downe foreign (which theſe menActes. 2. 23. interpret foreknoweledge) in y^• firſt place Yea and Luke ſetteth downe the ſame foreknowledge as the grounde worke ofAuguſtin de Ciuit. Dei lib. 19. ca 1. our redemption. Rightlye therfore dooth Auſtin acknowledge predeſtination on both ſides, althoughe he do now and then ſhole out the predeſtinate ſorte from the foreknowen. But let vsus away with this ſtryfe aboute termes. My meaninge was only too ſhew that I had don aright in ſetting down predeſtination for a generall terme, wherof there bee two particularTwoo ſorts of predeſtination ſortes, which notwithſtandinge doo meete together (and that is a thinge ineſpecially to bee marked) no leſſe in the ende, than in the head and originall beginning. For the headſpring of them both is the ordinaunce of God. And both the wayes (which are as it were cut out from this head,) doo meete agein in the vttermoſt poynt, that is too witte in the glory of God. Theſe thinges being ſet down, too the end I may anſwer to thatThe anſwer to the doure or obiectiō laſt afore named. exception of thine, namely that it ſeemeth a hard caſe, that ther ſhould be ſom predeſtinated vntounto death: I ſay that theſe thinges inſewing, ſéeme vntounto mee much harder. Namely that god ſhuld not hauehave forepurpoſed ſom certain end with himſelf in creating men, howbeit that (euen as the vnwiſeſt woorkeman of them all doo rightly witneſſe) the end is the firſte thing in the intent of the dooer. That god in creating men purpoſed an end to himſelfe, which aferwarde ſhould fall out incertainly, that is too wit in ſuch ſorte, as it ſhold reſt in the power of the clay & not in the power of the potter, too make the thinge come too paſſe or not come too paſſe which the workmaiſter had purpoſed. That god knowinge the will of hys owne handywork, ſhould alter his owne purpoſe, ſo that whereas he had determined too ſaue all in Chriſte, yet notwithſtandinge hée ſhould alter his minde and deſtroy all ſuch as would not incline too that purpoſe. For all theſe things (ſay I) do of neceſſitie folow their opiniō, which vphold that ſuch as periſh, do periſh contrary to Gods appoyntement. And leaſt wee may ſéeme too wander without our liſtes, that is to ſay, not to deale by onlye conſequences of reaſon: Firſt I ſay that all opinions whiche ſtriue agaynſte the iuſte proportion of faithe (of which ſorte this muſt needes bee one, the graunting whereof is accompanied with ſo manye wicked things) are plucked in péeces by the holy Scriptures. Secondely I ſaye, that as oft as the ſcripture maketh mention of the predeſtination of the choſen ſorte: ſo often is the predeſtination of the Reprobates confyrmed lykewiſe, in aſmuche as the cauſe it ſelfe requireth, that whereas ſome bee choſen vntoo life, the refidewe muſt bee vnderſtode too be appoynted vntoo death. Furthermore ſeinge that the veſſels of glory bee ſaid too bee predeſtinated too glory: the ouerſettingRom. 9. 22 23. of flatte contraries doth vtterly require, that wee ſhould conſter the veſſels of wrath to bee ſuch as are predeſtinated vntoo death.

Queſt. But here it is noted, that when the Apoſtle intreateth of the veſſels ofAnother obiection vpō a diſtinctiō of termes glory, he vſeth a woord that importeth doing: & when he ſpeaketh of the veſſels of wrath, he vſeth a woord that importteth ſuffering.

Anſ. I graunt that if it be demaunded of the middle cauſes whereby the veſſells of wrath are caried too the wrath that is appointed for them, they themſelues are the onlycauſe of theyr owne damnation. But truly this diſtruction is toyiſh. ForActs. 13. 48 Luke, iutreating of y^• elect, vſeth a participle of the paſſiue voyce, ſaying, as many as were ordayned to euerlaſting life. What? was that of themſelues, and not rather of the mere grace of god? Beſides this, it is nothing to the matter. For we intreat not of ſaluation or damnation: but of the ordinaunce too Saluation or dampnation, which diſpoſeth & ordereth the very cauſes of executing thē & therefore in no wiſe hangeth vponupon them, for that is altogether aboue the ſkies as the old prouerb ſayeth. To be ſhort, whither is it harder to ſay y^• ſome bee predeſtinated to dampnatiō, than to ſaye y^• they bee regiſtred to dāpnatiō long agoe as ſainctIude. 4 1. Theſ. 5. …. Iude ſpeaketh, or to ſay y^• they be appointed to wrath, as Paule ſpeaketh? Laſtly, I ſaid not y^• the dampnation of the reprobates is the ende y^• god purpoſed vponupon in his fore ordinance: but his owne glorye. Neither alſo did I ſimply ſaye y^• the Reprobates were appoincted to dāpnation: but I ſaide they were ordeined too Iuſt damnatiō: ſhewing therby that although no man be dampned but ſuch as the lord hath ordayned to damnation, (for otherwiſe the aforeſaide blaſphemies that I ſpake of wold folow of neceſſity): yet are none damned but ſuch as are founde too hauehave in themſelues iuſt cauſes of dampnatiō. What falſnes thē or what roughnes hath my foreſaid ſayinge in it.

Queſt. You ſeme to be diſproued by this1. tim. 2. 4 ſaying, God will hauehave almen ſaued, and by ſuch other like vniuerſall ſentences.

An. Then ſay thou that ſome bee dampnedThe right vnderſtanding of all generall or indefinite propoſitions concerning prouidence and predeſtination whither God will or no, or elſe confeſſe that the ſaide text muſt bee taken otherwiſe: which thinge the promiſes alſo doo ſhew: namely (which th…ge euen the ſcholemē themſelues hauehave eſpied) y^• therby muſt be ment, not y^e particulars of all kinds, but all kindes of particulars: … ſpeake more plainly, ſo as it may be, not an vniuerſall but an indefinite propoſition, which ought to be interpreted thus rather: that is to wit, that god will hauehave anye maner of men too bee ſaued, which ſelf kinde of ſpéeche Mathew vſeth when he ſayeth, that the Lorde healed all ſykeneſſes and diſeaſes, that is to ſay al ſorts or kindes of diſeaſes, accordinge as botheMath. 4. 23. Latinmen and Engliſhemen doo nowe and then ſpeake. For I praye you dare anye man ſaye, that God will hauehave all men ſaued, yea euen thoughe they continewe in vnbeléefe too the verye laſte gaſpe? Truelye no. For if it bée the fathers wyll, that hée whiche beléeueth in the Sonne ſhoulde not periſhe: it folowethIohn. 6. 40 that it is his will alſo, that whiche beléeueth not in the Sonne, ſhoulde periſhe. And therefore thoſe two thinges, namely Too bee ſaued, and too come to the knowledge of the truthe, muſt bee yoked together, ſo as it maye bee vnderſtoode, that God will hauehave thoſe onelyonly too be ſaued, whom he vouchſaueth to com to the knowledge of the truth. But faith (whichEph. 28 2. Theſ. 2. 3 is this trewe knowledge lyghteth neyther vppon all men, nor yet vppon the ronner or willer (as the Apoſtle witneſſeth):Rom. 9. 1… but commeth of Gods mercye, and lighteth vponupon them only which (as Luke ſayeth) are ordeined to euerlaſtinge life,Acts. 13. 48 Acts. 16. 14 and whoſe harts (as the ſame Luke writeth) God openeth ſo as they take heede to his word. Then muſt we vnderſtand, that gods predeſtination extendeth to all ſortes of men, that is too wit both Iewes and Gentiles, priuate perſons and magiſtrates, men and women, olde men and yongmen, ſlaues and gentlemē, ſuche as bee giltye of manye ſinnes and ſuche as be giltye offeawer ſinnes. For theſe only & ſuch… other like, are the circumſtances y^• are included in y^• foreſaid ſentence.

Queſt. VVill you then make electiō toElection muſt needes bee particular. bee particular?

Anſ. And I woulde fayne knowe if the man bee in hys right wyttes, that imagineth Election too bee vniuerſall. For trulye he that taketh all, maketh no choyce: and hee that chooſeth a thinge out frō two other things or mo, muſt needes bee ſaide too refuſe or forſake the things that he chooſeth not.

Queſt. But ſurely the calling and promis are vniuerſall.

Anſ. Underſtande them too bee indefinitevvithou… an… peremptory or preciſe. excepting of any perſons. (yea and that, in reſpecte of certaine circumſtances of whiche I hauehave ſpoken) and thou ſhalt thinke the rightlyer. And ſo altogether are thoſe things alſo too bee taken whiche diuerſe lerned men of our time hauehave written about this controuerſie. Or elſe ſee, how very reaſon of neceſſity confuteth that vniuerſall callinge. For if yee meane it of the calling by the preaching of the woorde: it is not trewe that all men are, or euer were, yea or euer ſhalbee called ſo ſeuerallye hereafter. For howe manye hauehave died, doo dye and ſhall die, before they hauehave hard aught at all of this woorde? But if ye take it to bee ment of the other calling whiche hath a muche larger ſcope, namely of the beeholdingRom. 1. 19. of nature wherby is vnderſtoode that whiche may be knowen of god: not euen this nother is ſo vniuerſally trew as that it comprehendeth eueryevery ſeuerall perſon. For how many hauehave died & dayly doo dye in ſuch age as is vtterly vnfit for that contemplation? There can not nor may not any calling, and muchleſſe any election bee warranted too bee vniuerſall, but onelyonly too bee indefinite: and that muſt alſo be only with an excluſion of theſe certein circumſtances aforeſaid.

Queſt. But what if wee ſay, that all men are called vniuerſally to ſaluation vnderunder condition, that they beleue: & therfore that ſaluation is offered vniuerſally as in reſpect of God which calleth, and that the fault why this calling is not vniuerſally of effect, is not in God, but in the ſtubbornnes of the vnbeleuers which refuſe the good turne that is offred them?

Anſ. This doubtleſſe is trew in ſome reſpect.Stubbornnes is the let of the effectual workīg of gods promiſes. Mat. 20. 16 For no doubt but the ſtubbornnes of the vnbeleeuers, is the thinge that diſappointeth the application and efficacy of the promiſes that bee offered. No dout alſo but calling hath a larger ſcope than election. But yet your ſuppoſalls are neither truly ynough nor fitly enough ſpoken. For firſt wee hauehave ſhewed, that not euen the outward calling. (whither yee looke to that which is naturall or to that which is doone by the woord of the Goſpell) pertayneth too eueryevery ſeuerall perſone. Wherfore as touching thoſe that wee ſpeake of, there is found in them no ſtubbornneſſe againſt the Goſpell, but onelyonly originall corruption, whiche notwithſtanding is euen of it ſelf alone ſufficientConditiō of beleeuinge to damne the reprobates. Beſides this, although the condition of beléeuing bee annexed: yet doth not the ordinance hang vponupon that, but rather that hangeth vppon the ordinaunce, as which goeth in order before all other inferior cauſes.

Elſe, ſee howe falſe and vnreaſonable thinges inſew. For it will folowe thatAbſurdities folowīg vppon the fore ſaid queſtiō God in deuiſing with himſelfe, did firſte ſet before him his whole woork as already finiſhed, and that accordinge as he ſaw his woorke ſhould bée diſpoſed of itſelfe and not by him that made it, he ſhould therupon take occaſion too determine, that is too ſay, too appoynt eyther too ſaluation or damnation. Or if yee like better that god himſelfe was vncerteine how the performing or not performinge of the condition woulde fall out: Then muſt it bée concluded, that Gods ordinance hangeth in ſuſpence, and that the determination of the caſe (as Auſtin trimly ſayeth) is not in the power of the potter, but of the clay. And herevpon wil be grounded another falſe opiniō: namely, that faith hath not his beginnyng of God, but of the will of man, if it bee ſo that Gods foreſight gaue him cauſe too determin vponupon his choiſe. Neither is it too the purpoſe to obiect, that faith is not foreſene, foraſmuch as it is a gift of god that commeth in by the waye: but that corruption and vnbeleefe are foreſene, which are naturall in man after his fall.The nature of contraries in reaſoning For the reaſon of the contraries requireth in any caſe, that loke in what degrée faith is placed in the ordinance of Election: euen in the ſame degree muſt faithleſneſſe or vnbeeleefe bee placed in the ordinance of reprobation. Therefore if ye make faith foreknowen, too bee the cauſe of the ordinance of election (which is vtterlye a poynte of a Pelagian and therefore repealed by Auſtin) you muſt needes deeme the ſame alſo of vnbeleefe in the contrarye ordynance of reprobation. And on the otherſyde, if yee ſubmit faith vntounto the ſayd ordinance, (as you needes muſt, for wee be choſen to the intent to beleue, and not bicauſe wee wold or ſhould beleue) you muſt nedes alſo in the contrary member ſubmit vnbeleefe to the ordinance of reprobation.

Queſt. VVill you then make the ordinanceThe cauſes of vnbeleefe and of faith are ſubiect to gods ordinaunce. of reprobation to be the cauſe of vnbeleeue, as wel as you make the ordinance of election too bee the cauſe of faith?

Anſwer. No. For the ordinance of election is in déede the efficient cauſe of faith. But corruption or vnbeleefe with the fruites therof, are in ſuch wiſe put vnderunder the ordinance of reprobation, as that the will of man is the firſt efficient cauſe of them and yet notwithſtanding they be ſubiect too the ordinance: bycauſe that although it bee not throughe the ordynance, yet is it not beſydes the ordynance nor without the ordynance, that thoſe thinges happen, whereof the fayling cauſe and not the efficient cauſe is grrounded in God, as I ſayde afore, For like as they onelyonly beléeue in whom God createth fayth: euen ſo through Gods forſaking of mannes wil, ſinne is krepte into mankynde and there abydeth yelding ill fruit in as manye as God liſteth too leaue vp too their owne luſtes, that they may bee the cauſe of theyr own damnation, whervntoo they are alſo inregeſtred and appoyncted from euerlaſtinge. Furthermore, that I may retyre vntoo the other queſtion: whatſoeuer is ſayde of the forenamed condition whiche is annexed too the ordinaunce, as who ſhould ſaye that the ordinance depended vppon the condition:Difference betweene Gods ordinance & the execution of his ordinance. it is vnfitly ſpoken.. For the ordinance of ſauinge the elect ſort, is another thinge than the verye glorifiynge of the elect: and the ordinance of dampning the Reprobates, is another thinge than the verye damninge of them, in ſomuche as the ordinaunce it ſelfe muſt needes bee diſtinguiſhed from the execution of it. The execution than of the ordinaunce of election, (that is too wyt, the ſaluation of the choſen,) dependeth vppon faythe that taketh holde of Chriſte: and the execution of the ordinaunce of Reprobation,) that is too wyt the dampnation of the caſtawaies,) dependeth vppon ſynne …nd there fruites thereof, accordinge t…o this ſaying of the Prophet, thy deſtruction O Iſraell commeth of thy ſelfe. AndIocl. 13. 9. of this ordinance of chooſinge ſome men too bee ſaued by grace, and of refuſing otherſome too bee dampned through their owne ſinnes, we know none other cauſe but this one, namely that the Lord, who is both incomparablye mercyfull and incomparablye rightfull, will bee glorifyed in that wiſe. He that holdes not himſelfe contented with this, for aſmuche as hee ſeeketh ſome hygher thynge and ſome rightfuller thinge than Goddes will: hee is worthely reprooued by the Apoſtle for a …rabler.

Queſt. Ergo God hateth ſome, not forA right popiſhe and worldly obiection. their ſinnes ſake, but becauſe he liſteth ſo too doo.

An. This is a ſlaunderous obiectiō. For it is certeine that God hateth no mā but for ſinne: for otherwiſe he had hated hys owne work. But it is one thing to hate,Differnce betwene hating and ordeining too iuſt hatred. and another thing to ordeine one to iuſte hatred. For the cauſe of y^e hatred is manifeſt, namely euen ſinne: but why God appoynteth whō he liſteth vntoo iuſt hatred, thoughe the cauſe bee hid from vsus, (ſauinge too the ende hee may bee glorified) yet cannot it not be vnrightuous, tō ſideringe that the will of God is the only rule of rightfulnes. For if wee ſpeake of this ſoueraigne will of God, which ordereth & diſpoſeth the cauſes of all thinges: wée muſt not ſay that a thinge ought too be rightful before God ſhould wil it: but contrarywiſe, that God muſt firſte wyll the thynge beefore it can bee ryghtfull: whiche who ſo conſidereth not, ſhall reaſon but confuſedly of this matter.

Queſt. But yet for all this, God ſeemethWhither there be any accepting of perſons with God. too bee a regarder of perſons if he yelde not alike vntounto all that hauehave done alyke. For in this poincte all men are like, that they bee corrupted by nature ſpred into them from Adam.

An. Nay trulye, it foloweth not of neceſſitye that whoſoeuer yeeldeth not alyke vntounto like, ſhoulde bee an accepter of perſons: but he onlye whiche yeldeth not alyke vntounto lyke, becauſe hee is parciallye mooued by ſome circumſtaunces that accompany the perſon it ſelf: as if two men were offenders alike, & the iudge ſhoulde acquit the one of them bicauſe he is rich, or his kinſman, or his countrieman. For theſe be the perſons that may not bee regarded of him that will iudge vncorruptlye. But I pray you, let vsus put the caſe, y^• two men bee indetted vntounto you, both in like ſomme, and both vppon like conditions. Nowe if of your liberalitie you forgiue the one his dette, and exact the other mans dette accordinge too extremity of law: ſhall there bee any excepting of perſons in this behalfe? What if ſome ſouereigne hauing a cupple that offend alike, doo of his meere grace parden the one mans offence, and puniſhe the other according to his deſertes, ſhall there be any parciality in the matter? Nay truly, if there be any fault in ſuch dealing, it is not towardes him that is puniſhed, but towards him y^t is borne withall, & that is but a gentle fault. Muchleſſe therefore can any parciality or regard of perſons be deemed to be in y^• caſe which we hauehave now in hand, conſidering how God acquiteth not the elect, but by the imputation of chriſts ſatiſfaction: & if any thing may be called in queſtion as ſcarce indifferent in this behalf, mē may ſeme to cauill rather vponupon the mercy towardes the elect, thā vpō the rightfull rigor towards the caſtawaies. Finally to what ende is all this? For in order of cauſes, gods ornance gooeth before the very creation of mankind: onleſſe thou wilt make god ſo vnwiſe a workman, as too create mankind before he had determined with him ſelf, to what end he wold make him. And what could he ſée in them that as yet had no being, whereby he might be moued to determine this or that concerning them? Therfore this diſcourſe alſo perteineth not to the ordinance, but to the execucion of the ordinance: wherin notwithſtāding (as I ſayd euen now) there can no parcialitie or accepting of perſons be found.

Queſt. Doſt thou not then by the terme lump (which the apoſtle Paul vſeth) vnderſtandRom. 9. 21. the created & corrupted mankinde, whereout of God ordineth ſome to honour and ſome to dishonour?

An. There is no doute but God takethHow God ſhapeth both the choſē & the reprobates out of one lump. both the ſorts out of y^e ſame lump, ordeining them to contrary endes. Yet doo I ſay and plainely auouche, that Paule in the ſame ſimilitude, mounteth vp to the ſaid ſouerain ordinance whervnto euen the very creation of mankind is ſubmitted in order of cauſes, & therefore much leſſe doth the Apoſtle put the foreſéene corruption of mankinde before it. For firſte by the terme Lump, there is manyfeſtlye betokened a ſubſtance as yet vnſhapen, and onelyonly prepared too woorke vppon afterwarde. Agayne in likening God too a Potter, and mankinde too a lumpe of Clay wherof veſſells are too be made afterwarde, out of all doubte the Apoſtle betokeneth the firſte creation of men. Furthermore hee ſhoulde ſpeake vnproperly, too ſay, that veſſelles of wrath are made of that lumpe. For if that lumpe betokened men corrupted: then were they veſſels of diſhonour already, and the potter ſhould not be ſaide too make them, other than ſuch as they had made them ſelues already.

Finially ſo ſhoulde the cauſe as well of the ordinaunce of Reprobation, as of the execution of the ſame ordinance (that is too wit of the damnation of the Reprobate) bee manyfeſt: for men ſhould ſee, it were corruption. But why then ſhuld the Apoſtle mount vp too that ſecret wil of God which is rather too bee honored than ſearched, if he had ſo ready an aunſwere at hande, ſpecially which might earye alikelyhood of truth with it euen in the reaſon of man?

Queſt. Truly thou compelleſt mee to agree vntounto thee euen in this poynt alſo. But yet this is another thing that troubleth mee. If this ordinaunce be of neceſſity & vnchaungeable, as it is indeed? to what purpoſe doo men diſquiet themſelues?The wilfull & vnreaſonable obiection of the worldlinges. for whether they doo well, they muſt neuertheleſſe perishe if they be or deyned toodamnation: or whither they doo ill, they shalbe ſaued if they bee ordeined too life.

Queſtion. Certeinly it is a fond obiection, too ſurmize that thing which neuer ſhall nor can come to paſſe. For from whence coms Repentaunce and the fruites therof? Truly euen from regeneration thorough the ſpirite of Chriſt taken hold on by faith: But trew faith is geuen to the chozen ſort onelyonly: Ergo onelyonly the elect doo repent and geue themſelues too good workes. The reſt hauehave not ſo much as the will too thinke any thing aright, and much leſſe too doo it, conſidering that too will aright and too doo aright commeth of Gods grace, which is peculiar only to the chozen. And therfore as fonde alſo is the ſaying of them, which holde opinion that they ſhalbe ſaued if they bee choſen, what kynd of life ſo euer they giuegive them ſelues vntounto. For as many as bee choſen, are the children of God, but if they bee Gods children, then alſo (as the ApoſtleRo. 8. 14 ſayeth) they beeled by Gods ſpirit. And therfore the elect truely cannot periſhe: (for then ſhould gods ordinance faile, or elſe at leaſt wiſe God ſhould bee changeable), but like as they cannot periſhe, ſo alſo are they in their ſeaſonable time indewed with faith, and ingreffed in chriſt in whom finally they be iuſtified, ſanctified, and glorified.

Que. But yet muſt they needes periſheNedes muſt the reprobates periſh & the cauſe therof. that are ordeined too damnation.

Anſwere. I graunt: but yet it is bycauſe they bée ſinners. For euermore betwene the ordynance and the execution of the ordinance there ſteppeth in ſinne,, which wil ſtoppe the mouthes of any men bée they neuer ſo captious. For what is more rightfull, than that God ſhould puniſhe ſinne? And too whom is he bounde too ſhewe mercye? Therefore I am not wont too maruell that anye man periſſheth, but rather I maruell that Gods goodneſſe can bee ſo great, as that all doo not periſhe.

Queſtion. Bicauſe thou haſt ſo often diſtinguished the middle cauſes frō the ordynance that diſpoſeth them: I would alſo hauehave them reherſed on eyther part.

Anſwere. Foraſmuch as God (as it may bée perceiued by the falling out of thinges)The middle cauſes betweene the ordinance of predeſtination and the end of it. had determined from euerlaſting, to ſetforth his glory cheefly in mākind, which glorye conſiſteth partly in extendinge mercye, and partly in extending hatred ageinſt ſinne: he created man ſound both within and without, & indued him with right vnderſtanding and will, but yet he made him chaungeable. For he hymſelf beyng ſingularly good, coulde not create and will any euyll: and yet except euyll had entred into the world, there had bin no roome neither for mercy, nor for iuſtice. Man therefore being changeable, brought himſelfe and all that ſhould bee borne of him in bondage of ſinne and of Gods wrath, willingly & altogether by miſſehap as in reſpect of the beginning that ſticked in man himſelfe, that is too ſay in reſpect of his owne wil, albeit that it were of neceſſitie if yee conſider Gods ordinance and the ſequele of the matter. From thenſforth the Lorde, (accordinge as he had determined frō euerlaſtinge,) bringing forth now ſom and then ſome, doth ſo leade them forth too their appointed endes too bee glorifyed in them on either ſide: that of them in whom he wil hauehave his glory to appéere by their ſaluation, ſome he remoueth out of hande too eternall life as freely compriſed within his couenant: and otherſome (whome it pleaſeth him too hauehave too continewe longer in this life,) he calleth by the effectuallRom. 8. 28 &c. woorde of the Goſpell, ſometime earlyer and ſomtime later, at what time he liſteth, and greffeth them into Chriſt, in whom he iuſtifieth them, ſanctifieth thē, and finallye rewardeth thē with eternall life. And as for y^• reſidew whiche are appointed too his rightfull vengeance, (for to whom is he detter?) either he deſtroyethRom. 11. 35 them out of hande, or elſe pacientlye giuing them reſpit (that they maye notRom. 9. 22. bée altogether without taſte of his goodnes) either he voutſaueth not too call thē at all, or he calles them no further but too make them the more vnexcuſable. Herevpon it commeth to paſſe, that being left vp too their owne luſtes, they harden themſelues, vntill they hauehave filled vp the full meaſure of wickednes, and then they paſſe awaye vntoo iudgement. In what wyſe theſe cauſes of the dampnation of the reprobates, doo come to paſſe beſides the ordinance of God who forſaketh the reprobates and deliuereth them vp too Sathan and too themſelues, as that the whole blame doth notwithſtāding ſticke altogether in themſelues: I hauehave ſhewed already in dew place.

Queſt. Then muſt the veſſels of mercye praiſe the lord, and the veſſels of wrath blame themſelues. But whither maye I flee for ſuccour in the perilous temptation of perticular election.

Anſ. Unto the effectes whereby the ſpirituallRemedies ageinſt the temptation of particuler predeſtination. life is certeinlye diſcerned, and ſo conſequently our electiō, like as the lyfe of the bodye is perceiued by feelinge and mouing. For wee that walowe as yet in the puddle of this worlde, are not able too lyfte vp our ſelues vntoo that ſouereyne lyght, excepte wee mount vp by thoſe ſteppes whereby God draweth his choſen vntoo him accordinge too hys foreſaid euerlaſting ordinance, as whom he hath created to his own glory. Therefore that I am choſen, I ſhall perceiue firſt by y^• holineſſe or ſanctificationbegonPhil. 2. 13. 1. Ioh. 3. 10. Ro. 8. 15. 16 in mée that is to ſay by my hating of ſin and by my louing of rightuouſnes. Here vntounto I ſhall adde the witnes of the holy ghoſt comforting my concience, like as Dauid ſaid, why art thou heauye O my ſoule, & why dooſt thou gréeue thy ſelfe? Put thy truſt in the lord. Hereto perteinethPſal. 42. 11 the earneſt minding of Gods benefytes, which though it rather frayeth vsus than comforteth vsus for a time whyle we thinke therwithall vppon our owne vnthankefulneſſe: yet at the length it muſt néedes lyft vsus vp, foraſmuch as therein are alwayes too bée ſéene the manifeſt tokens of his free and vnchangeable fatherlye louelove towardes vsus, not ſhadowed, but playnelye expreſſed. Upon this Sanctifycation and comforte of the holye Ghoſte, wee gather fayth. And therby wee ryſe vp vntoo Chriſte, to whom whoſoeuer is geeuen, is of neceſſitye choſen in hym from afore all worldes, and ſhall neuer bee thruſte oute of the doores

Queſtion. VVhat if thoſe witneſſinges be faint?

Anſwere. Then it beheueth vsus too knowe thatOther …o comfortable remedies wée bée tryed, and therfore that our ſluggiſhneſſe is then moſt too be found fault with. Yet withſtanding our hartes muſt not in any wiſe ſhrinke, but wee muſt ſtrengthen thē with thoſe indefinite promiſes, and throw dartes at our aduerſarie agein. For although the incounter of the fleſhe ageinſt the ſpirit doo comber our conſciences with great doubtinges of the trewnes of our fayth, ſpecyally as oſt as the ſpirit ſeemeth too quayle and in a manner too bee quite quenched: yet notwithſtandyng, it is certeyne, that thys ſpirite whiche ſetteth it ſelfe truelye (thoughe but faintlye) ageynſt the aſſaultes of the fleſhe, is the ſpirit of adoption, the gift whereof is not too bee repented of. For otherwyſe the electe myght peryſhe, and they that bee once iuſtifyed myght fall away from Chriſt. Wherevppon it woolde folowe, either that God is chaungeable, or that the ſallyng out of his ordynance is vncertein, wherof none of both can bee imputed too God without blaſphemie.

Queſt. But the garlond is geuē to thoſe onelyonly that holde out.

Anſ. I graunt ſo. And therfore whoſoeuerPerſeuerāce or holding out to the ende. is elected craueth perſeuerance and obtaineth it.

Queſt. Think you then that the ſpirit of adoption is neuer ſhaken of?

Anſ. I confeſſe that the ſpirit is now and then interrupted in ſore temptations, & that the teſtimonies of his dwellinge in vsus are oftentimes ſo brought a ſleepe, that hee ſeemeth to bee quite gone from vsus for a time. But yet for all that, I ſay he is neuer quite taken away: for needs muſt gods determination of ſauing his ſeruaunts ſtand ſure, and therfore when▪ time ſerues, at length the miſtes of the fleſhe are chaced away, and the gladneſſe of the lordes ſauinge health alwayes reſtored, which ſhyneth as the Sonne into the troubled conſciences of the elect. FinallyHowtrewe faith & the effectes of it ar interrupted. I ſay, that trewe fayth and the effectes thereof are in likewiſe interrupted in the elect as the powers of y^• mind bee hindered in them that hauehave the ſleepye diſeaſe or in drunkenmen: in whom the ſoule is not taken awaye, (for there is great oddes betwene the ſleepy diſeaſe or drunkenueſſe and very death) and yet that they which hauehave the ſpirit of Adoption hauehave an aſſured pledge of eiernall life. Therefore in this moſt daungerous incounter, the ſame thing wherwith Satan aſſayleth vsus, both can and muſt warrant vsus aſſured victory. For except the ſpirit of adoption (which is alſo the ſpirite of holi…eſſe, rightuouſneſſe, faith, and life) were preſent in vsus, there ſhould bee no ſtriuing in vsus, but ſin ſhould reygne quietly at his pleaſure. For the man thatMarke too know an elect from a worldling vnelected▪ or from a reprob…te. Rom. 7. 13 Rom. 7. 15 19 Rom. 7. 25. is not indued with that ſpirit ſaith thus: I doo the euill that I hauehave a mind vntounto: I do no good, nor I hauehave no liſt too do it. But the man that is regenerated, and ſo conſequently elected, (howbeit as yet ſtill wreſtling,) ſayeth thus: I doo the euill that I wold not, & I do not the good that I woold doo. Wo is mee, who ſhall deliuer me out of the body of this death? And in crying out in this wiſe, the elect perſon caſteth hys Anchor in the verye Throne of God the father, whom he beholdeth in the preached woord and in the Sacramentes. Finally when the elect ſhall hauehave gotten the full victorye in the other world, he ſhall ſay thus: I doo the good that I woold doo, and I doo none euill, nor none I liſt to doo.

Queſtion. VVhat if a man neuer feele the teſtimonies of ſuch ſpirit in himſelfe?

Anſwere Yet muſt it not bee deemed that he is one of the number of the reprobates.No man muſt bee haſtely deemed for a …eprobate For the lord calleth thoſe that bee his, at what time he himſelf liſteth. And therefore ſuch manner of men muſt bee ſent away too the woord and the Sacramentes, where they maye heere God ſpeaking and alluryng ſynners vntoo hym. For although they receyue not the fruite and operacion of thoſe thynges for a tyme: yet muſt they incorage themſelues and alſo bee diligently ſtyred vp by others, too continewe in heeringe the word of God euen ageinſt their wills: & then one tyme or other they ſhall obtein… that whiche the Lorde as yet deferreth, not too the intent too caſt them of, but contrarywiſe too ſharpen their deſyr… and earneſtneſſe.

Queſt. I would therefore that wee might talke amonge ourſelues concerning the Sacramentes alſo, about the which in eſpeciallye there is nowe adayes ſo greate ſtrife betweene the churches.

Anſ. Truly I refuſe not ſo to doo. Notwithſtandinge (as I thinke) we ſhall doo that more conueniently another time.

In the meane while, if you bee ſatiſfied in the thinges you hauehave demaunded, I am very glad, and I would with you too minde theſe thinges earneſtly night and …aye.

¶ All honor, glory, praiſe, and thankes bee onelyonly vntoo God the Father through our Lorde Ieſus Christe. Amen, (⸫)

¶ EINIS.

End of the text · Theodore Beza, Book of Christian Questions and Answers (1574)

Book of Christian Questions and Answers, Text (3 of 3)