Sermon 8 February 1588, Part 5 – Part 6
D. BANCROFT page 6. line 13. VVhere this eccleſiaſtical Synod is not erected, they ſay Gods ordinance is not performed: the office of Chriſt as he is a King, is not acknoledged: in effect, with out this gouernement, we can neuer attaine to a right and trewe feeling, of chriſtian religion, but are to be reckoned among thoſe,Luke. 19.27. who ſay of Chriſt, we wil not hauehave this man to raigne ouer vsus.
ANSVVERE.
As though we deſire eccleſiaſtical Synods, to be erected in eueryevery congregation, and pariſh, or that we make no difference, betwene a Synod, which is a meeting of al the miniſters, and elders, if occaſion ſhould require, (or more properly of ſome choiſe miniſters and elders) in a whole prouince, or more generall, and the Elderſhippe: which containeth the gouernors, to wit the Paſtors Doctors and elders of one only congregation. The reader may ſe what a meet man you are to be an inueigher againſt the elderſhip, whereas you knowe not what it meaneth, and whether a Synod and an Elderſhip be al one or not.
Where this forme of eccleſiaſtical gouernement is not erected, there indeed we ſay, that Gods ordinance concerning the regiment of his church is not wholy obſerued: but that his whole ordinance is wanting, where there is a faythful teacher we neuer as yet affirmed. And therefore if by your generall ſpeach (that wee ſay Gods ordinance is not performed &c.) you meane that we denye any part thereof, to be where the gouernement by the Elderſhip is not eſtabliſhed, you doe but followe your owne humor, that is beare falſe witneſſe againſt the truth, and thoſe that profeſſe the ſame.
The office of Chriſt as he is a King, is boath to teach and to gouerne his church by his own lawes. Our Biſhops doe profeſſe them ſelues to robbe the church of the ſcepter of gouernement, which they hauehave tyranuouſly wreſted to them ſelues, & therefore we truly ſay, that they ſuffer Chriſt to hauehave but halfe a kingdome at the moſt, vnderunder their juriſdiction, and that we feare ful ſore againſt their wills: we grant indeed, that many congregations in the land, doe enjoy, Chriſt Ieſus raigning among them, by the ſcepter of his word, and wee doe day and night according vntounto our weake meaſure of faith, heartily thanke our God for this bleſſing, and beſeeche him from the bottome of our hearts, to ſhew mercy vntounto our ſoueraigne Queene Elizabeth, vnderunder whoſe peaceable gouernment, we are partakers of ſo ineſtimable a treaſure. Yet notwithſtanding; it is too well knowen, what a ſtraunger, the ſauiour of mankinde is to the moſt part within our lande, becauſe the voyce of his goſpell is neuer effectually heard among them: and ſo wee may truly ſay, that the office of Chriſt as he is a king, is no wiſe acknoledged vnderunder ye juriſdiction of our Biſhops in many places of our land. Againe, we do ſo thanke the Lord for the enjoying of his Goſpel preached, as we ceaſe not, humbly to intreate his majeſtie, that leeing hee hath vouchſafed vsus the lauour to bee of his houſeholde, it would alſo pleaſe him, that wee may bee ruled by the offices and lawes of his owne houſe. For what hath the Temple of God to doe with the gouernement and ſtatutes of the kingdome of Antichriſt? And we doe proteſt that wee will giuegive him no reſt, vntill hee hath vouchſaued to heare our ſupplications euen in this point. And yet in the meane time, we doe acknowledge his office as he is a king: and doe profeſſe our ſelues without this Gouernement which wee labour for; to hauehave attained vntounto ſome right and true feeling of chriſtian religion; though not to ſuch a meaſure, as we hope to reach vntounto, whenſoeuer the Lord ſhall graunt vntounto vsus the vſe of his holy ordinaunce, which wee ſo earneſtly deſire. This may ſerue M. Bancroft for a ſufficient confutation of your looſe and vnbridled tongue; which are not aſhamed to publiſh that without this gouernement we holde, that men can neuer attaine vntounto a right and true feeling of religion: we hauehave euermore affirmed the contrary, & are able to proue the contrary.
For wee holde that thoſe 3000. ſoules which in one day were added vntounto the Church at Ieruſalem,Act. 2.41. before the Elderſhip was eſtabliſhed among the diſciples, had a true feeling of religion: wee ſay the ſame of the Church of Creta,Tit. 1.5. euen before euer Titus ordained elders in eueryevery citie among them. The like iudgement wee hauehave of the church of England, at this day. But as the ſpirite of God recordeth, that notwithſtanding theſe Churches of Ieruſalem and Creet, had a true feeling of Chriſt, yet it behooued them to ſubmit themſelues, according vntounto Gods ordinance, vntounto the gouernement of the Elderſhip, which [aAct. 15.4.6. Titus. 1.5.] they enioyed: So ſay wee of our ſelues in Englande, and of all other Churches in our caſe, that although our knowledge and feeling were neuer ſo great, (as alas it is but too too ſlender) yet are we to be built further and further, and wrought vppon by all the holy ordinances of God, leaſt wee be depriued of that inheritance which is to bee had among them that are ſanctified. And indeed we hold, it is to bee feared, of all thoſe who refuſe to ſtoope vntounto the Lord in this point of their obedience, that they hauehave not as yet felt a right, what true religion meaneth. Therefore, we warne them to enter into their own ſoules, and examine what true ſence they hauehave of the glory of God, and his fauour towardes them. And as for the moſt of them, that are enemies vntounto this gouernment of Chriſt Ieſus, it were to be wiſhed, both in regard of the Church, and common wealth, that their very liues and conuerſations, did not ſhew them, to be either meere Atheiſtes or carnall and prophane men, that onelyonly content themſelues to hauehave godlineſſe in their monthes, though their hearts hauehave denied the power thereof, and are ſo farre from the true feeling of Chriſtian religion, as D. Bancroft is from true and vpright dealing, who ſaith, that we account all thoſe, amongſt whom this Eccleſiaſticall Sinode (as he calleth it) is not erected, to ſay of our ſauiour Chriſt, we wil not hauehave this man to raigne ouer vsus. The which ſpeech, how vntrue it is, may appeare by that which is alreadie ſpoken. As for the concluſion, which in the latter ende of this page hee alledgeth out of the Demonſtration of Diſcipline, I wiſh with all my heart, if it pleaſe the Lord, that neither hee nor any other enemies of the cauſe, may feele the waight thereof.
Whereas in this place,page 9. line. 26. you would ſeeme to make the Demonſtration of diſcipline, to be the fountain whence you hauehave deriued the moſt of the thinges hitherto diſcuſſed, the reader is to make no other account of that ſpeech of yours, then to marke it vppe, vponupon the ſcore of your vntruthes: for you ſhall find no ſuch matter in that booke.
D. BANCROFT page 10. ſect. 2. & 3. There was neuer ancient father (as I thinke) ſince the Apoſtles time, that did thus expound the place, Mat. 18. Beſides there hath bin a diuers gouernement from this, vſed in the Church euer ſince the Apoſtles time, and theſe men doe confeſſe, that this gouernment long before the counſel of Nice began greatly to decay and that ſince the ſayd counſel,T. C. it was neuer heard of in the world, vntil theſe their times.
ANSVVERE.
They muſt needs be childiſh, and abſurd fathers, that ſhould expounde the place, according vntounto your interpretation. The reader hath ſeene, that you hauehave alleadged your owne comment and not ours. Neither do we runne vntounto fathers when we would try the truth, but vntounto the ſcriptures themſelues. And yet wee thankefully acknoweledg the helpes, which their labours hauehave affoarded vntounto vsus, but ſo as wee held it a maine point of popery to holde that a place is not well interpreted, becauſe no ſuch expoſition can be founde in the writings of the ancients. Beſides, we account your breſt for no librarie, wherein al the interpretations of the fathers vppon this place may be ſene. Chriſoſtom (if that were any thinge vntounto the truth) doth expound tel the church, to be,Chriſoſt. vponupon Math. tel the gouernors of the Church, which comprehendeth in a manner al that wee affirme.
We know Di…rephes to hauehave bin in the church, euen in the Apoſtles times,3. Iohn. 9. and wee are aſſured he could neuer be gotten out of it, ſince the firſt hower that he ſet footing therein. And therefore we cannot greatly maruel, though euen in their time, there had bin a diuers gouernment, from this of the lords appointment, which we labour for. For euen in the Apoſtles time, the miſtery of iniquitie beganne to worke. But for al this,2. Theſ. 2.7. wee would hauehave you prooue your bolde aſſertion, that euer ſince the Apoſtles time, there hath bin a diuers gouernment from this, and when you hauehave done, you muſt vnderſtande, that the queſtion betweene vsus is not ſo much, de facto, as de jure, not ſo much whether there was a diuers gouernment &c. as whether that diuers gouernement was lawfull or not.
We muſt needs confeſſe indeed, that not onelie this gouernement of the Church, but alſo many other points of greateſt waight in religion, fell to decay long before the counſell of Nice: But that M. Carthwright, or any man els of iudgement hath affirmed, that this gouernement was neuer heard of, ſince the ſayde counſell, vntill theſe our times, it is an impudent vntruth. You quote T. C. on the margent, but neither name the page, nor the booke where hee ſhould affirme this which you woulde ſeeme to publiſh vnderunder his name,. The reader is to marke this is an other of ſhifte, which is ſo much the more ſhamles, as you ground your next ſpeech vppon it, as vponupon a matter graunted you without any further queſtion.