Works of Joseph Hall, Section 23 – Section 26
SECTION XXIII.
THE ſpirit of your Proto-Martyr, would hardly hauehave digeſted this title of Babylon Mother of Gods people; a murdering Step-mother, rather:How the Church of England hath ſeparated from Babylon. Gyff. refut. 2. tranſg. Reuel. 18.2. Anſ. fore-ſpeech to Counterpoyſe. Shee cannot be a Mother of Children to God, and no Church of God: Notwithſtanding, Gods people (would he ſay) may be in her, not of her. So Babylon bore them not, but Sion in Babylon; But I feare not your exceſſe of charitie: You flye to your Doctors challenge; and aske what we ſay againſt you for vsus, which Rome will not ſay for her ſelfe againſt vsus: Will you iuſtifie this Plea of Rome, or not? If you will, why doe you reuile her? If you will not, why doe you obiect it?
Heare then what wee ſay both to you and them, our enemies both: and yet the enemies of our enemies: Firſt, wee diſclaime, and defie your Pedigree and theirs. The Church of Rome was neuer our Mothers Mother: Our Chriſtian faith came not from the ſeuen-hilles: Neither was deriued either from Auguſtine the Monke,A Simone Zelota Niceph. Alij à Ioſ. Arimath. cuius hic ſepulchrum cernitur. Angli Paſcha Graeco more celebrarunt. Iacob. Armin. Diſp. Cant. 8.8. Fr. Iun. l. ſing. de Eccle. or Pope Gregorie. Britanie had a worthy Church before either of them lookt into the world: It is true that the ancient Romane Church was ſiſter to ours: heere was neere kindred, no dependance: And not more conſanguinity, than (while ſhe continued faithfull) Chriſtian louelove: Now ſhe is gone a whoring, her chaſte ſiſter iuſtly ſpitteth at her: yet euen ſtill (if you diſtinguiſh, as your learned Antagoniſt hath taught you, betwixt the Church and Papacie) ſhe acknowledges her Siſterhood, though ſhe refraines her conuerſation: as ſhe hath many ſlauiſh & factious abettors of her knowne and groſſe errors (to whom we deny this title) affirming them the body, whereof Antichriſt is the head, the great Whore, and Mother of abominations; ſo againe how many thouſands hath ſhe, which retaining the foundation according to their knowledge, (as our learned Whitakers had wont to ſay of Bernard) follow Abſolom with a ſimple heart: all which to reiect from Gods Church, were no better than preſumptuous cruelty. It were well for you before God and the world, if you could as eaſily waſh your hands of vnnaturall impiety, and trecherouſneſſe, as we of Baſtardy and vniuſt ſequeſtration. There can be no Baſtardy, where was neuer any Motherhood, we were nephewes to that Church, neuer ſonnes: vnleſſe as Rome was the mother City of the world, ſo by humane inſtitution, we ſuffered our ſelues to bee ranged vnderunder her Patriarchall authoritie, as being the moſt famous Church of the Weſt: a matter of courteſie, and pretended Order; no neceſſity, no ſpirituall obligation. As for our ſequeſtration, your mouth and theirs may bee ſtopt with this Anſwer: As all corrupted Churches, ſo ſome things the Church of Rome ſtill holds a right; a true God in three perſons, true Scriptures, though with addition, a true Chriſt, though mangled with foule and erroneous conſequences; true Baptiſme, though ſhamefully deformed with rotten Traditions; and many other vndeniable truths of God: ſome other things (and too many) her wicked Apoſtaſie hath deuiſed and maintained abhominably amiſſe; the body of her Antichriſtianiſme, groſſe errors, and (by iuſt ſequell) hereſies; their Popes Supremacie, infallibility, Illimitation, Tranſubſtantiation, Idolatrous and ſuperſtitious worſhip, and a thouſand other of this branne: In regard of all theſe latter, wee profeſſe to the world a iuſt and ancient ſeparation from this falſe faith and deuotion of the Romiſh Church; which neither you will ſay, nor they ſhall euer proue faulty: yea rather they hauehave in all theſe ſeparated from vsus, who ſtill irrefragably profeſſe to hold with the ancient, from whom they are departed. In regard of the other wee are ſtill with them, holding and embracing with them what they hold with Chriſt: neither will you (I thinke) euer prooue that in theſe we ſhould differ. As for our communion, they hauehave ſeparated vsus by their proud and fooliſh excommunications: if they had not, wee would iuſtly hauehave begun: from their Tyranny and Antichriſtianiſme, from their miſerable Idolatry: but as for the body of their poore ſeduced Chriſtians, which remaine amongſt them vponupon the true foundation (as doubtleſſe there are thouſands of them which laugh at their Pardons, Miracles, Superſtitions, and their truſt in merits repoſing onelyonly vponupon Chriſt) we adhere to them in louelove and pittie, and hauehave teſtified our affection by our bloud, ready vponupon any iuſt call to doe it more;Phil. Morn. du Pleſſes Lib. de Eccle. cap. 10. neither would feare to ioyne with them in any true ſeruice of our common God: But the full diſcourſe of this point, that honourable and learned Pleſſes hath ſo foreſtalled, that whatſoeuer I ſay, would ſeeme but borrowed. VntoUnto his rich Treatiſe I referre my Reader, for full ſatisfaction: Would God this point were thorowly knowne, and well weighed on all parts. The neglect or ignorance whereof hath both bred and nurſed your ſeparation, and driuen the weake and inconſiderate into ſtrange extremities.
This ſay wee of our ſelues in no more Charity than Truth: But for you; how dare you make this ſhameleſſe compariſon? Can your heart ſuffer your tongue to ſay; that there is no more difference betwixt Rome and vsus, than there is betwixt vsus and you? How many hundred errors, how many damnable hereſies hauehave we euinced with you, in that (ſo compounded) Church? ſhew vsus but one miſ-opinion in our Church that you can proue within the ken of the foundation:Counterp. p. 171. Let not zeale make you impudent: Your Doctor could ſay (ingenuouſly ſure) that in the Doctrines which ſhe profeſſeth, ſhe is far better and purer than the Whore Mother of Rome, and your laſt Martyr, yet better: If you meane (ſaith he) by a Church (as the moſt doe) that publike profeſſion whereby men doe profeſſe ſaluation to be had by the death and righteouſneſſe of Ieſus Chriſt, I am free from denying any Church of Chriſt to be in this Land:1. Penry Exam. before M Fanſhaw and Iuſt. Young. Fr. Iun. l. de Eccleſ. M. Hooker Eccleſ. pol. Du Pleſſes, l. de Eccl. Iacob. Armin. diſput. D Reynolds Theſſ. D. Feild of the Church. Reuel. 3. & 2. for I know the doctrine touching the holy Trinity, the natures and offices of the Lord Ieſus, free iuſtification by him; both the Sacraments, &c. publiſhed by her Maieſties authority, and commanded by her lawes, to bee the Lords bleſſed and vndoubted Truths, without the knowledge and profeſſion whereof no ſaluation is to be had: Thus hee with ſome honeſty, though little ſenſe. If therefore your will doe not ſtand in your light, you may well ſee, why we ſhould thus forſake their Communion, and yet not you ours. Yet though their corruptions be incomparably more, we hauehave not dared to ſeparate ſo farre from them, as you hauehave done from vsus for leſſe: Still we hold them euen a viſible Church, but vnſound, ſicke, dying; ſicke, not of a conſumption onelyonly, but of a leproſie or plague (ſo is the Papacie to the Church) diſeaſes, not more deadly than infectious: If they be not rather in Sardies taking; of whom the ſpirit of God ſaith, thou haſt a name that thou liueſt, but thou art dead; and yet in the next words bids them awake, and ſtrengthen the things which are ready to die. And though our iudgement and practiſe hauehave forſaken their erronious doctrines and ſeruice, yet our charity (if you take that former diſtinction) hath not vtterly forſaken and condemned their perſons. This is not our cooleneſſe, but equality: your reprobation of vsus for them, hath not more zeale than headſtrong vncharitableneſſe.
SEP.
And were not Luther, Zuinglius, Cranmer, Latimer, and the reſt begot to the Lord in the Wombe of the Romiſh Church? did they not receiue the knowledge of his truth when they ſtood actuall members of it? whom notwithſtanding afterwards they forſooke, and that iuſtly for her fornication.
SECTION XXIV.
BVT how could you without bluſhing once name Cranmer, Latimer, The ſeparation made by our holy Martyrs.and thoſe other holy Martyrs, which hauehave beene ſo oft obiected to the conuiction of your Schiſme? Thoſe Saints ſo forſooke the Romiſh Church, as we hauehave done, died witneſſes of Gods Truth in that Church, from which you are ſeparated▪ liued, preached, gouerned, ſhed their bloud in the communion of the Church of England, which you diſclaime and condemne as no Church of God, as meerely Antichriſtian: Either of neceſſity they were no Martyrs, yea, no Chriſtians, or elſe your Separations and Cenſures of vsus are wicked. Chuſe whether you will; They were in the ſame caſe with vsus; we are in the ſame caſe with them; no difference but in the time: either their bloud will be vponupon your heads, or your owne: this Church had then the ſame conſtitution, the ſame confuſion, the ſame worſhip, the ſame Miniſterie, the ſame gouernment (which you brand with Antichriſtianiſme) ſwayed by the holy hands of theſe men of God; condemne them, or allow vsus. For their Separation: They found many maine errors of doctrine in the Church of Rome (in the Papacie nothing but errors) worth dying for: ſhew vsus one ſuch in ours, and we will not only approue your Separation, but imitate it.
SEP.
But here in the name of the Church of England, you waſh your hands of all Babyloniſh abominations, which you pretend you hauehave forſaken, and her for them. And in this regard you ſpeake thus: The Reformation you hauehave made of the many and maine corruptions of the Romiſh Church, we doe ingenuouſly acknowledge, and doe withall imbrace with you all the truths which to our knowledge you hauehave receiued inſtead of them. But Rome was not built all in a day. The myſterie of iniquitie did aduance it ſelfe by degrees: and as the riſe was, ſo muſt the fall be. That Man of Sinne, and Lawleſſe man, muſt languiſh and die away of a conſumption, 2 Theſſ. 2.8. And what though many of the higheſt Towers of Babel, and of the ſtrongeſt Pillars alſo be… demoliſhed, and pulled downe, yet may the building ſtand ſtill, though tottering to and fro (as it doth) and onelyonly vnderpropped and vpheld with the ſhoulder and arme of fleſh, without which in a very moment it would fall flat vponupon, and lie leuell with the earth.
SECTION XXV.
THE Church of England doth not now waſh her hands of Babyloniſh abominations, but rather ſhewes they are cleane.What ſeparation England hath made. Would God they were no more foule with your ſlander than her owne Antichriſtianiſme. Here will be found not pretences, but proofes of our forſaking Babylon; of your forſaking vsus, not ſo much as well-coloured pretences: You begin to be ingenuous; while you confeſſe a reformation in the Church of England: not of ſome corruptions, but many; and thoſe many not ſlight, but maine.
The gifts of Aduerſaries are thankleſſe: As Ierome ſaid of his Ruffinus; ſo may wee of you, that you wrong vsus with praiſes: This is no more praiſe than your next page giues to Antichriſt himſelfe. Leaue out many, and though your commendations bee more vncertaine, we ſhall accept it: ſo your indefinite propoſition ſhall ſound to vsus as generall, That wee hauehave reformed the maine corruptions of the Romiſh Church: None therefore remaine vponupon vsus, but ſlight and ſuperficiall blemiſhes. So you hauehave forſaken a Church of foule skin, but of a ſound heart; for want of beautie, not of truth.
But you ſay many, not All; that if you can picke a quarrell with one, you might reiect all: yet ſhew vsus that one maine and ſubſtantiall error, which wee hauehave not reformed: and you doe not more embrace thoſe truths with vsus which we hauehave receiued, than wee will condemne that falſhood which you hauehave reiected, and embrace the truth of that Separation which you hauehave practiſed.
The degrees whereby that ſtrumpet of Babylon got on Horſe-backe you hauehave learned of vsus, who hauehave both learned and taught, that as Chriſt came not abruptly into the world, but with many preſages and prefigurations, (The day was long dawning ere this Sunne aroſe) ſo his aduerſarie (that Antichriſt) breaks not ſuddenly vponupon the Church, but comes with much preparation and long expectance: and as his riſe, ſo his fall muſt be graduall, and leiſurely: Why ſay you then, that the whole Church eueryevery where, muſt at once vtterly fall off from that Church where that Man of Sinne ſitteth? His fall depends on the fall of others, or rather their riſing from vnderunder him: If neither of theſe muſt be ſudden, why is your haſte? But this muſt not be, yet ought: as there muſt be hereſies, yet there ought not: It is one thing what God hath ſecretly decreed, another what muſt be deſired of vsus: If we could pull that Harlot from her ſeat, and put her to Ieſabels death, it were happy: HaueHave wee not endeuored it? What ſpeake you of the higheſt Towers, and ſtrongeſt pillars, or tottering remainders of Babylon? wee ſhew you all her roofes bare, her walles razed, her vaults digged vp, her Monuments defaced, her Altars ſacrificed to deſolation: Shortly, all her buildings demoliſhed, not a ſtone vponupon a ſtone, ſaue in rude heapes, to tell that here once was Babylon: Your ſtrife goes about to build againe that her tower of confuſion. God diuides your languages: It will be well; if yet you build not more than we hauehave reſerued.
SEP.
You hauehave renounced many falſe doctrines in Poperie, and in their places embraced the truth. But what if this truth be taught vnderunder the ſame hatefull Prelacie in the ſame deuiſed office of Miniſterie, and confuſed communion of the prophane multitude, and that mingled with many errors?
SECTION XXVI.
THe maine grounds of Separation.YOu will now bee free both in your profeſſion and gift; You giuegive vsus to hauehave renounced many falſe doctrines in Popery: and to hauehave embraced ſo many truths: we take it vntill more: You profeſſe where you ſticke, what you miſlike: In theſe foure famous heads, which you hauehave learned by heart from all your predeceſſors: An hatefull Prelacie,Barr. and Gr. againſt Gyffe Confer. & Exam. paſſim. Penry in his Exam. Exo. 1.2, 3, &c. Ierem. 20.1. Ierem. 5. vlt. A deuiſed Miniſterie, a confuſed and profane communion, and laſtly, the intermixture of grieuous errors.
What if this truth were taught vnderunder a hatefull Prelacie? Suppoſe it were ſo; Muſt I not imbrace the truth, becauſe I hate the Prelacie? What if Iſrael liue vnderunder the hatefull Aegyptians? What if Ieremie liue vnderunder hatefull Paſhur? What if the Iewes liue vnderunder an hatefull Prieſthood? What if the Diſciples liue vnderunder hatefull Scribes; What are others perſons to my profeſſion? If I may be freely allowed to bee a true profeſſed Chriſtian, what care I vnderunder whoſe hands? But why is our Prelacie hatefull? Actiuely to you, or paſſiuely from you? In that it hates you? Would God you were not more your owne enemies: Or rather becauſe you hate it? your hatred is neither any newes, nor paine: Who or what of ours is not hatefull to you? Our Churches, Bells, Clothes, Sacraments, Preachings, Prayers, Singings, Catechiſmes, Courts, Meetings, Burials, Marriages: It is maruell that our aire infects not: and that our heauen and earth (as Optatus ſaid of the Donatiſts) eſcape your hatred:Iohnſ. praef. to his 7. Reaſ. Not the forwardeſt of our Preachers (as you terme them) hauehave found any other entertainment; no enemie could bee more ſpightfull; I ſpsake it to your ſhame. Rome it ſelfe in diuers controuerſarie diſcourſes hath bewrayed leſſe gall, than Amſterdam: the better they are to others, you profeſſe they are the worſe:Iohnſ. 7. Reaſ. p. 66. Tit. 3.4. yea, would to God that of Paul were not verified of you; hatefull, and hating one another: but we hauehave learned, that of wiſe Chriſtians, not the meaſure of hatred ſhould be reſpected,Pſal. 69.4. but the deſert: Dauid is hated for no cauſe, Michaiab for a good cauſe: Your cauſes ſhall be examined in their places onwards. It were happy, if you hated your owne ſinnes more, and peace leſſe: our Prelacie would trouble you leſſe, and you the Church.