Three Pillars and Arch-patriarchs of the Popish Synagogues, Treatise 1 · Book 1 · Part 8 – Part 12
Heskins.The 8. Chap. exhorteth men to heare, or to read the expositions of the scriptures, & not to presume vponupon their own vnderstanding.
Fulke.If there were nothing in this Chapter, but answering to the title thereof: I would willingly subscribe vntounto it. But after he hath exhorted as he promiseth, by the counsell of Iames, Salomon, and Hieronyme, that we should heare & learne of them, whom God hath appointed, pastors and teachers in his Church: he dissuadeth men also, by the authoritie of Paule, and Ecclesiasticus, to appoint vntounto them selues Elders, or maisters, to be carried about with new and straunge doctrines: & decreeth, That they only are lawfull Elders, that hauehave learned of their fathers. For whiche cause Luther was no good Elder, allowing women to teach openly, contrary to Paul, 1. Cor. 14. which is an impudent slaunder of Luther, who by no meanes would hauehave women to teache, except it were extraordinarily, as the prophetesses of the olde time did namely Debora, Holda, & such like. Such stuffe is in the other slaunders, That contrition maketh a man more sinner, where Luther meaneth of yt, which is without faith, & therfore must needs be sinne. That a righteous man in eueryevery good worke sinneth mortally, where he meaneth that sinne and imperfection is mixed, euen with the best works, not that good workes are sinne. That is also a detestable lye, that Luther should teach, EueryEvery Christian man, to be a priest for the common or publique ministery, wheras he neither thought nor spake otherwise, then the scripture speaketh, which hath made vsus Kings & Priests. Apoc. 1. And no lesse is ye slander of Zwinglius, That he taught, that originall offence is no sinne, whereas the worlde knoweth, that Zwinglius taught the contrarie, and the Papistes come neerer to that errour, whiche define it to be no sinne in the regenerate: it is as false that he taught, That Christian mens children neede not to be baptised, As it is true, that if they dye without baptisme, (without any cōtempt of their part,) it is no cause of condēnatiō vntounto them. The saying of Christ, except a man be borne againe of water & of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heauē, maketh no more for the baptisme of infantes, then his saying also, except ye eate the fleshe of ye sonne of man, & drinke his bloud, ye hauehave no life in you, maketh to proue, that infants must receiue ye cōmunion, for neither in the one speaketh he of the sacramēt of baptisme, nor in the other place, of the sacramēt of his supper. But where Luther doth often protest yt he will not be taught by man, but by God, he doeth as euerie Christian man ought to do, and yet excludeth not the ministerie of men, but the authoritie, doctrines, traditions, and inuentions of men, which by Luciferian pride take vponupon them to teache that they hauehave not learned of God. But howe shall we vnderstand this saying of Maister Heskins, speaking in despight of Luther: This is another Paule. As though only Paul wer called of God without the ministery of mā, whē all the Apostles were so, or as though it were a reproche to be so called as Paul was: if God do extraordinarily stir vp any man, as he did the Apostles & Euāgelistes. After his deriding of Paul, Zwinglius is condemned, by that which Maister Heskins hath saide, for writing a booke De claritate verbi Dei, How wisely and iustly, let the godly Readers iudge. Next followeth generall rayling against Oecolampadius, Bullingerus, Caluinus, Bucer, of whom his aduersarie (meaning I thinke the B. of Sarum) learned his heresies: then he returneth to vnlearned artificers, teaching in corners. All which he would hauehave to be auoyded: I suppose because he hath rayled vponupon them, and called them heretiques, for other reason he bringeth none. Except this be one, that Hieronyme thinketh it not sufficient, if a man say, he loueth God, and yet breaketh the vnitie of the Church. The Church once named, by and by all is his. As though it were no cōtrouersie at this day, whether the Synagogue of Rome be the Church of God or no. And as though all Christendome, had bene at all times, and in all places obedient to the Churche of Rome, before these fewe yeares. And therfore he is bolde to demaunde where it was taught in the Christian worlde, that Christes naturall bodie is not in the sacrament, nor to be offered, nor receiued, nor honoured? Nay Maister Heskins, where was this taught in the affirmatiue for fiue or sixe hundreth yeares after Christe? As for your other questions of prayer for the dead, and prayers to the dead, if you bring any reasons for thē in this your Omnegatherū, they shal be answered otherwise the readers for me shall resort to other treatises where they be handled of purpose. But seeing men must learne the law of their mother, that is the Church, they must follow Hieronyme, which neuer ceased from his youth, to seeke knowledge of learned men, and trauelled to Alexandria to be instructed of Didym…s. So did Augustine to Millain to learne of Ambrose. No wise man will mislike this counsell. But this one thing especially is notable: That Damasus being bishop of Rome, did send to S. Hieronyme to be answered in certein doubts, and disdained not to learne of him. I had thought the Pope, had had all knowledge In scrinio pectoris, in the closet of his brest, that he had the spirite of trueth, to resolue all doubtes, so that he could not erre, and that Hieronyme hauing him at Rome, needed not to hauehave sought knowledge at Alexandria. But Damasus, although euen in that time, a ioly stately Prelate, as appeareth by some of his Epistles, (if they be not counterfet) yet shewed himselfe farre from that Antichristian pride, which the Popes of Rome, (I cannot say his successors,) did shew afterward, and yet to this day do holde.
But to omitte Damasus Many learned of Saint Augustine, and of other learned men also, which were learned them selues. They did wel, & many, (God be blessed) follow their example at this day, and yet too fewe, for it were to be wished, that such modestie were in all men. The saying of Clemens, registred also in the cannon lawe, although you alledge it out of a counterfet and barbarous epistle, yet is it very godly, and worthie of the Apostles scholler: That the scripture must not be drawen into straunge and forreigne senses, according vntounto euerie mans phantasie, but the true sense must be taken out of the very Scriptures themselues, agreeable to the iudgement of them, that hauehave receiued is from the elders, That is the Apostles. For there were none other in the time of Clemens, whiche went before but euen they.
The rest of the Chapter conteineth a repetition of that he hath handled in these eight Chapters, with a promise that after this prety preamble, he will goe immediately to his purposed matter, to bee debated in this highe Court of prattlement. And yet I weene as you hauehave had a preamble, so you shall hauehave a preface of other matter, for three or foure Chapters more, or euer you come to the principall matter. In deede great solemnitie becommeth a parleament.
Heskins.The ninth Chapter declaring that our redemption was prenunci…ed by promises figures, and prophesies, and what the promises be, and to whom they were made.
Fulke.In this Chapter, so long as he followeth the scriptures, he hath well and truely satisfied the title: shewing that Christ was promised principally to Adam, Abraham, and Dauid, denying that Salomon was promised to Dauid, but Christ. Where I hope he meaneth, that Salomon was not promised as Messias, but as a figure of him. Finally, I agree with him in all things, for which he bringeth authoritie of the worde of God, onelyonly I cannot admitte the exposition that Iacobus de Valentia maketh of the Dominion of Christ from sea to sea, that is, from the mid lande sea to both the Oceans, the South, and the North, whiche inclose Affrike, and Europe from the floudes, Nilus and Tanais, vntounto the endes of the world, that be towarde the East, which comprehendeth all Asia. For since the time of Iacobus de Valentia, we hauehave knowledge of the fourth part of the worlde, toward the West, called America, greater then any of the three other, which his circumscriptiō, doeth exclude, out of the kingdome of Christ, although I doubt not, but thither also the founde of the Gospell hath beene carried, and is nowe restored in some places, although brutish barbarousnesse hath of long time ouerwhelmed it.
Hesk.The tenth Chapter toucheth the figures of Christes incarnation, passion, resurrection, and ascention.
Fulk.In this Chapter as in the former, following the authoritie of the holy scriptures, he sheweth that the conception of Sampson, was a figure of the incarnation of Christ: Ioseph, of his betraying: Isaac, of his suffering: the priesthood of Aaron, and the sacrifices, of his priesthoode & sacrifice: Ionas, of his resurrection: & Elias, of his ascention. Wherein I see nothing worthie of reprehension, except peraduenture in some collation, there be more subtil curiositie, then sound stedfastnesse.
The eleuenth Chapter, declareth by the Prophets of what line the Messias should come, with his cōception, birth, passion, & death.Hesk.
In this Chapter also he doeth well discharge his promise, for the historie of the cōception, & passion of Christ.Fulk. If al the rest were like these Chapters, we should soone agree.
The twelfth briefely toucheth a prophesie or two of the resurrection, and ascention of Christ.Hesk.
In this Chapter, as he promiseth,Fulke. is touched a saying of Dauid Psalm. 16. alledged by Peter, Act. 2 to proue the resurrection: and an other, Psalm. 67. for the ascention, alledged by Paule. Eph. 4. in these foure Chapters, there is nothing in a manner, but that which is confessed of both sides.