Acts and Monuments Volume 2 Part 2, Book 12 · Account 134 – Testimony 1
❧The Conference or Disceptation had and begun at Westminster, the last of March, vponupon certaine Questions or Articles of Religion proposed, and also of the breaking vp of the same, by the Papistes default, at the first beginning of Queene ELIZABETH.
SO it pleased the Queenes most excellent maiestie, hauyng heard of diuersitie of opinions in certaine matters of religion amongst sundry of her louyng subiects, and beyng very desirous to hauehave the same reduced to some godly and Christian concord, by the aduise of the Lordes and others of the priuy Counsaile, as well for the satisfaction of persons doubtfull, as also for the knowledge of the very truth in certaine matters of difference, to hauehave a conuenient chosen number of the best learned of eyther part, and to conferre together their opinions and reasons, and thereby to come to some good and charitable agreement. And hereuppon by her Maiesties commaundement, certaine of her priuy Counsaile declared this purpose to the Archbishoppe of Yorke (beyng also one of the same priuy Counsaile) and required hym that he would imparte the same to some of the Bishops, and to make choise of viij.ix. or x. of them, and that there should be the like number named of the other part. And further also declared to hym (as then was supposed) what the matter should be. And as for the tyme, it was thought meet to be as soone as possible might be agreed vponupon. And then after certaine dayes past, it was signified by the sayd Archbishoppe, that there was appointed by such of the Bishops, to whome hee had imparted this matter eight persons, that is to say, 4. Bishops and 4. Doctours. The names of whom here follow vnderunder written, &c.
*The Papistes.
The B. of Winchest.
The B. of Lich.
The B. of Chest.
The B. of Carlile.
The B. of Linc.
D. Cole.
D. Harpsfield.
D. Langdale.
D. Chedsey.
*The Protestants.
D. Scory B. of Chich.
D. Coxe.
M. Whitehed.
M Grindall.
M▪ Horne.
M Doct. Sands.
M. Gest.
M. Aelmer.
M. Iuell.
Who were content at the Queenes Maiesties commaundement, to shewe their opinions, and as the sayde Archbishop termed it, render accompte of their fayth in those matters which were mentioned and that especially in writyng, although he sayd, they thought the same so determined, as there was no cause to dispute vppon them. The matter which they should talke vponupon, was comprehended in these three propositions, here vnderunder specified.
1. It is agaynst the worde of God, and the custome of the auncient Church, to vse a tongue vnknowen to the people, in common prayer, and the administration of the Sacraments.
2. EueryEvery Church hath authoritie to appointe, take away, and change ceremonies and Ecclesiasticall rites, so the same be to edification.
3. It cannot be prooued by the worde of God, that there is in the Masse offered vp a sacrifice propitiatorie for the quicke and the dead.
It was hereupon fully resolued by the Queenes maiestie, with the aduise aforesayd, that according to their desire, it should be in writing on both partes, for auoyding of much alteration in wordes, and that the sayd Bishops should, because they were in authoritie of degree superiours, first declare their myndes and opinions to the matter, with their reasons in writyng. And the other number beyng also viij. men of good degree in schooles, and some hauyng bene in dignitie in the church of England, if they had any thing to say to ye contrary, should the same day declare their opinions in lyke manner, and so eche of them should deliuer their writings to the other, to bee considered what were to bee improoued therein, and the same to declare agayne in writyng at some other conuenient day, and the like order to bee kept in all the rest of the matters. All this was fully agreed vponupon with the Archb. of Yorke, and so also signified to both parties.
And immediately hereupon, diuers of the Nobilitie and states of the realme vnderstanding that such a meting and conference shoulde bee, and that in certaine matters whereupon the Courte of Parliament consequently followyng, some lawes might be grounded. They made ernest meanes to her Maiestie, that the parties of this conference, might put and read their assertions in the English tongue, and that in the presence of them of the Nobilitie and others of her Parliament house, for the better satisfaction and enabling of their owne iudgements, to treat and conclude of such lawes as might depend hereupon.
This also beyng thought very reasonable, was signified to both parties and so …ully agreed vponupon, and the daye appoynted for the first meetyng, to bee the Friday in the forenoone, beyng the last of March, at Westminster church. At which foresayd day and place, both for good order & for honour of the conference by the Queenes maiesties commandement, the Lordes and others of the priuy counsaile were present, and a great parte of the nobilitie also: And notwithstanding this former order appoynted, and consented vntounto by both partes, yet the Bishop of Winchester & his Colleagues alledging they had mistaken yt their assertions and reasons should be written, and so onelyonly recited out of the booke, sayd their booke was not ready the… written, but they were ready to argue and dispute, and therefore they would for that tyme repeate in speache that which they had to say to the first probation.
This variation from the former order, and specially from that which themselues had by the sayde Archbishop in writyng before required, adding thereto the reason of the Apostle, that to contend with wordes, is profitable to nothyng, but to subuersion of the hearer, seemed to the Queenes maiesties counsaile somewhat strange, and yet was it permitted without any great reprehension, because they excused themselues with mistakyng the order, and agreed that they would not faile but put it in writing and accordyng to the former order, deliuer it to the other part, and so the sayd Bishop of Winchester and hys Colleagues, appoynted Doctour Cole Deane of Paules, to be the vtterer of their myndes, woo partly by speech onelyonly, and partly by readyng of authorities written, and at certaine tymes beyng enformed of his Colleagues, what to say made a declaration of their meanynges and their reasons to their first proposition, which being ended, they were asked by the priuy Counsaile if any of them had any more to be sayd, and they sayd no. So as the other par…e was licenced to shewe their myndes, which they dyd accordyng to the first order, exhibityng all that whiche they ment to be propounded, in a booke written, which after a prayer and inuocation made most humbly to almightye God for the enduyng of them with his holy spirite, and a protestation also to stand to the doctrine of the Catholike Church builded vponupon the Scriptures, and the doctrine of the Prophets and the Apostles, was distinctly red by one Robert Horne Bacheler in Diuinitie, late Deane of Duresme, and after Bishoppe of Winchester. The Copye of which their Protestation here followeth, accordyng as it was by him penned and exhibited, with their preface also before the same, as is here expressed.
FOrasmuch as it is thought good vntounto the Queenes most excellent Maiesty (vntounto whom in the Lord all obedience is due) that we should declare our iudgement in writyng vponupon certaine propositions: we, as becommeth vsus to doe herein, most gladly obey.
See…ng that Christ is our onelyonly maister, whome the father hath commaunded vsus to heare: and seyng also hys worde is the truth, from the which it is not lawfull for vsus to depart not one haire bredth, and against the which (as the Apostle saith) we can do nothing, we doe in all thinges submitte our selues vntounto this truth, and doe protest that we will affirme nothyng agaynst the same.
And forasmuch as we hauehave for our mother the true and catholike Church of Christ, which is grounded vponupon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophetes, and is of Christ the head in all things gouerned, we do reuerence her iudgement, we obey her authoritie as becommeth children: and we do deuoutly professe and in all points follow the faith which is conteined in the three Creedes, that is to say, of the Apostles, of the Councell of Nice, and of Athanasius.
And seyng that we neuer departed, neither frō the doctrine of God which is contained in the holy Canonicall Scriptures, nor yet from the fayth of the true and catholike church of Christ, but hauehave preached truely the worde of God, and hauehave sincerely ministred the sacraments accordyng to the institution of Christ, vntounto the which our doctrine and fayth, the most part also of our aduersaries did subscribe not many yeares past, (although now as vnnaturall they are reuolted from the same) wee desire that they render accompt of their backsliding, and shewe some cause wherefore they do not only resist that doctrine which they hauehave before professed, but also persecute the same by all meanes they can. We do not doubt but through the equitie of the Queenes most excellent maiesty, we shall in these disputations be entreated more gently then in yeres late past, when we were handled most vniustly, & scantly after the common maner of men. As for the iudgement of the whole controuersie, we referre vntounto the most holy scriptures, and the catholike church of Christ (whose iudgement vntounto vsus ought to be most sacred): notwithstanding by the catholike church we vnsterstand not the Romish church, whereunto our aduersaries attribute suche reuerence, but that which S. Augustine & other fathers affirme, ought to be sought in the holy scriptures, and which is gouerned and led by the spirite of Christ.
The 1. proposition.It is against the worde of God and the custome of the Primitiue Church to vse a tong vnknowen to the people in common praiers & administration of the sacraments.
By these words (the word of God) we meane only the written word of God, or canonicall scriptures.
And by the custome of the primitiue church, we meane the order most generally vsed in the church for the space of 500. yeres after Christ, in which times liued the most notable fathers, as Iustine, Ireneus, Tertullian, Cyprian, Basill, Chrysostome, Hierome, Ambrose, Austine, &c.
Two partes of the proposition.This assertion aboue written hath two partes. Fyrst, that the vse of the tongue not vnderstanded of the people in common prayers of the Church, or in the administration of the Sacramentes, is agaynst Gods worde.
The second, that the same is agaynst the vse of the primatiue Church.
The first parte is most manifestly prooued by the 14. chapiter of the Epistle to the Corinthians,The first part of the proposition. almost thorow out the whole chapter. In the whiche chapter Saynt Paule intreateth of this matter, ex professo purposely. And although some do cauel that Saint Paule speaketh not in that chapter of praying, but of Preaching, yet is it most euident to any indifferent reader of vnderstanding, and appeareth also by the exposition of the beste writers, that hee plainely there speaketh not onelyonly of Preaching and Prophesying, but also of prayer and thankesgeuing, and generally of all other publicke actions, whiche require any speache in the Church or congregation. For of praying he sayth: I will pray with my spyrite, and I will pray with my minde, I will singe with my spyrite, and I will singe with my minde. And of thankesgeuing (which is a kinde of prayer:) Thou geuest thankes well, but the other is not edyfied. And how shall he which occupyeth the roume of the vnlearned say, Amen to thy geuing of thanks when he vnderstandeth not what thou sayest? And in the ende, descending from particulers to a generall proposition, cō cludeth that all thinges oughte to be done to edyfication. Thus much is cleare by the very words of Saint Paule: and the auncyent Doctors, Ambrose, Augustine, Hierom, and other do so vnderstand this chapter, as it shal appeare by their testimonyes which shall follow afterwarde.
¶Upon this Chapter of Saint Paule we gather these reasons following.
1. All things done in the Church or congregation, ought so to be done as they may edifye the same.The Argument or probation.
But the vse of an vnknowē tongue, in publicke prayer or administration of Sacramentes doth not edifye the congregation.
Therefore the vse of an vnknowen tongue in publicke prayer or administration of Sacramentes is not to be had in the Church.
The Maior proued.The first part of this reason is grounded vponupon Saynt Paules wordes, commaunding all thinges to be done to edyfication.
…The seconde parte is also prooued by Saynte Paules playne wordes. Fyrst by this similitude. If the trumpet geue an vncertayne sounde who shall be prepared to battaile? Euen so likewise when ye speake with tongues, except ye speake wordes that hauehave signification, how shall it be vnderstanded what is spoken? for ye shal but speake in the ayre, that is to say, in vayne, and consequently without edifieng.
And afterward in the same chapter he sayth: how can he that occupieth the place of the vnlearned say, Amen, at thy geuing of thankes, seeyng he vnderstandeth not what thou sayest? for thou verily geuest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
These be Pauls words, plainly proouing, that a tong not vnderstanded, doth not edifie. And therefore both the parts of the reason thus prooued by S. Paul, the conclusion followeth necessarily.
Secondly, nothing is to be spoken in the congregation in an vnknown tongue,An other argument o… probation. except it be interpreted to the people, that it may be vnderstand. For saith Paul, if there be no interpreter to him yt speaketh in an vnknown tong, taceat in ecclesia, let him hold his peace in the church. And therfore the commō praiers & administratiō of sacramēts, neither done in a known tong, neither interpreted, are against this commandement of Paul, and not to be vsed.
The minister in praier or administration of sacramēts vsing language not vnderstanded of the hearers,An other argument. is to thē barbarous, an alien, which of Saint Paul is accompted a great absurditie.
It is not to bee counted a Christian common prayer,The fourth argument or probation. where the people present declare not their assent vntounto it by saying Amen, wherein is employed all other words of assent.
But S. Paul affirmeth that the people cannot declare their assent in saying Amen,Ambros. Per hos enim impletur confirmatio precis, qui respondent Amen. The fyfte argument. except they vnderstand what is said, as afore.
Therfore it is no Christian common prayer where the people vnderstandeth not what is sayd.
Paule would not suffer in this tyme a strange tongue to be heard in the common prayer in the church, notwithstanding that such a kind of speach was then a miracle, & a singular gift of the holy ghost, whereby infidels might bee perswaded and brought to the faith: much lesse is it to bee suffred now amongst christian and faithful men, especially being no miracle, nor especiall gift of the holy ghost.
Some will peraduenture answer, that to vse any kind of tong in common prayer or administration of sacramēts is a thing indifferent.The sixte argument.
But S. Paul is to the contrary. For he commaundeth all things to be done to edification, he cōmandeth to keepe silence if there be no interpreter,Obiection dissolued. and in the end of the chapter he concludeth thus. If any man be spirituall or a prophet, let him know that the things which I write, are the commaundementes of the Lorde. And so shortly to conclude, the vse of a strange tongue in prayer and ministration is agaynst the word and commandement of God.
To these reasons, grounded vponupon S. Pauls wordes, which are the most firme foundation of this assertion, diuers other reasones may bee ioyned, gathered out of the scriptures and otherwise.
In the old testament all things pertainyng to ye publike prayer, benedictions, thankesgeuings, or sacrifices,The 7. reason. were alwayes in their vulgar and naturall tong. In the 2. booke of Paralipom. chap. 29. it is written that Ezechias commanded the Leuites to praise God with ye Psalms of Dauid, and Asaph the Prophet, which doubtlesse were written in Hebrew their vulgar tongue. If they did so in the shadowes of the law, much more ought we to doe the like, who (as Christ saith) must pray in spiritu & veritate.
The finall end of our prayer (as Dauid sayth) is,The 8. reason. vt populi conueniant in vnum, & annuncient nomen Domini in Sion, & laudes eius in Hierusalem.
But the name and praises of God cannot be set foorth to the people, vnlesse it be done in such a tong as they may vnderstand, therfore common prayer must bee had in the vulgar tongue.
The definition of publike prayer out of the wordes of S. Paule. Orabo spiritu, orabo & mente. Publicè orare, The 9. reason.est vota communia mente ad Deum effundere, & ea spiritu, hoc est, lingua testari. Common prayer is to lifte vp our common desires to God with our myndes, and to testify the same outwardly with our tongues, which definition is approoued by S. Augustine, de magistro. cap. 1. Nihil opus est (inquit) loquutione, nisi forte vt sacerdotes faciunt, significandae mentis causa, vt populus intelligat.
The ministration of the Lordes supper and baptisme are as it were Sermons of the death and resurrection of Christ.The 10. reason.
But Sermons to the people must be had in such language as the people may perceiue, otherwise they shoulde be had in vayne.
It is not lawfull for a christian man to abuse the gifts of God,The 11. reason or probation. but he that praieth in the church in a strange tong abuseth the gifts of God. For the tong serueth onelyonly to expresse the mynd of the speaker to the hearer. And August. sayth: De doctrina Christiana, li. 4. ca. 10. loquēdi omnino nulla est causa, si quod loquimur non intelligunt, propter quos vt intelligant loquimur. There is no cause why wee shoulde speake if they for whose cause we speake, vnderstande not our speaking.
The 12. reas…n or probation.The heathen and barbarous nations of all countries and sortes of men, were they neuer so wylde, euermore made their prayes and sacrifices to their Gods in their owne mother tongue. Which is a manifest declaratiō that it is the very light and voyce of nature.
¶Thus much vponupon the ground of S. Paule and other reasons out of the Scriptures, ioyning therewith the common vsage of all nations, as a testimony of the lawe of nature.
The second part of the first proposition.Now for the second part of the assertion, which is, that the vse of a strange tongue in publike prayer and administration of sacraments, is against the custome of the Primitiue church, which is a matter so cleare, that the deniall of it must needes proceed either of great ignorance, or els of wilfull malice.
For first of all Iustinus Martyr describing the order of the communion in his tyme,Iustinus. Apol. 2. The first argument out of Iustine Martyr. sayth thus: Die solis vrbanorum ac rusticorum coetus, fiunt vbi Apostolorum prophetarum que literae, quoad fieri potest praeleguntur: Deinde cessante lectore, praepositus verba facit adhortatoria, ad imitationē tam honestarum rerum inuitans. Posthaec consurgimus omnes, & preces offerrimus, quibus sinitis profertur (vt diximus) panis, vinum & aqua: tum praepositus quantum potest, preces offert, & gratiarum actiones, plebs vero Amen accinit.
That is to saye: Uppon the Sonday assemblies are made both of the citizens and countreymen, whereas the writings of the Apostles and of the Prophets are red, as much as may be. Afterwards when the Reader doth cease the head minister maketh an exhortation, exhortyng them to fol…ow so honest thyngs. After this, we rise altogether and offer praiers, which beyng ended (as we hauehave sayde) bread, wine & water are brought forth. Then the hed Minister offreth prayers and thansgeuing, as much as he can and the people answereth, Amen.
☞ These wordes of Iustine, who liued about 160. yeares after Christ, considered with their circumstaunce, declare playnely that not onelyonly the Scriptures were red, but also that the prayers and administration of the Lords supper were done in a tongue vnderstanded,
Both the Liturgies of Basil and Chrysostom declare, that in the celebration of the Communion,The second argument … of Basil. the people wer appointed to answer to the prayer of the Minister, sometymes Amen, sometymes, Lord hauehave mercy vppon vsus, sometymes, and with thy spirite, and we hauehave our hartes lifted vp vntounto the Lord, &c. Which aunswers, they coulde not hauehave made in due tyme, if the prayers had not bene made in a tong vnderstanded.
And for further proofe, let vsus heare what Basill writeth in this matter to the Clarkes of Neocaesarea. Basilius. Epist 63.Caeterum ad obiectum in Psalmodijs crimen quo maxime simpliciores terrent calumniatores, &c. As touching that is layed to our charge in Psalmodies and songs, wherwith our slaunderers doe fraie the simple, I hauehave thus to say, that our customes and vsages in all Churches, be vniforme, and agreeable.
For in the night the people with vsus riseth, goeth to th… house of prayer, and in trauaile, tribulation, and continual teares, they confesse themselues to God, and at the last rising agayne, go to their songs or Psalmody, where being deuided into two partes, sing by course together, both deepely weying and confirmyng the matter of the heauenly sayinges, and also stirring vp their attention and deuotion of heart, which by other meanes bee alienated and plucked away. Then appoynting one to beginne the song, the rest followe, and so with diuers songes and prayers passing ouer the nyght, at the dawnyng of the day, altogether euen as it were, with one mouthe and one heart, they sing vntounto the Lord a song of Confession, eueryevery man framyng to hymselfe meete wordes of repentaunce.
If you will flie vsus from hencefoorth for these thynges, ye must flie also the Egyptians, and both the Libianes, ye must eschew the Thebanes, Palestines, Arabians, the Phenices, the Syrians, and those that dwell besides Euphrates. And to be short, all those with whome watchinges, prayers, and common singyng of Psalmes are had in honour.
❧Testimonies of S. Ambrose, written vponupon the 14. to the Corinth. the first epistle. Super illud qui enim loquitur linguis.
HOc est quod dicit, quia qui loquitur incognita lingua, &c. This is it that he sayth:Ambrosius. An other argument of Saint Ambrose. because he which speaketh in an vnknowen tongue, speaketh to God. For he knoweth all thyngs but men know not, & therfore there is no profit of this thyng.
¶The same author afterwardes, Super illud, si benedixeris spiritu.Ambrose.
Hoc est, si laudem dei lingua loquaris ignota, &c. Uppon these wordes, if thou blesse or geue thanks with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the roume of the vnlearned, say, Amen at the geuyng of thankes, seeyng he vnderstandeth not what thou sayest?
That is (sayth Ambrose) if thou speake the prayse of God in a tongue vnknowen to the hearers. For the vnlearned hearing that which he vnderstandeth not, knoweth not the end of the prayer, and he answereth not Amē. That is as much to say as (true) that the blessing or thāksgeuing may bee confirmed. For the confirmation of the prayer is fulfilled by them which do answer, Amen. That all things spoken might be confirmed in the mindes of the hearers, through the testimony of the truth.
¶Afterward in the same place vponupon these wordes, if any Infidell or vnlearned come in.Ambrose.
Quum enim intelligit & intelligitur, &c. For when hee vnderstandeth, and is vnderstanded, hearing God to bee praysed, and Christ to bee worshipped, he seeth perfectly, that the religion is true, and to be reuerenced, wherein he seeth nothyng to be done colourably, nothyng in darkenesse, as among the Heathen, whose eyes are couered, that they seyng not the thyngs which they call holy, might perceyue themselues to be deluded with diuers vanities. For all falsehood seketh darkenes, and sheweth false things for true. Therefore, with vsus nothing is done priuily, nothing couertly, but one God is simply praysed, of whom are all things, and one Lord Iesus, by whom are all things. For if there be none which can vnderstand, or of whome hee may be tried, he may say, there is some deceit and vanitie, which is therfore song in tongues (not vnderstanded hee meaneth) because it is a shame to open it.
VponUpon this place: Omnia ad aedificationem fiant.Ambrose.
Conclusio haec est vt nihil incassum in ecclesia geratur: hocque elaborandum magis, vt & imperiti proficiant, ne quid sit corporis per imperitiam tenebrosum. Let all thyngs be done to edifie,
This is the conclusion, that nothyng should be done in the Church in vayne, and that this thyng ought chiefly to bee laboured for, that the vnlearned also myght profite, least any part of the body should bee darke thorough ignoraunce.
Agayne: Si non fuerit interpres,Ambrose. taceat in Ecclesia.
Hoc est, intra se tacitè oret aut loquatur deo, qui audit muta omnia. In Ecclesia enim ille debet loqui qui omnibus prosit.
If there be no interpreter, let hym keepe silence in the Church.
That is, let him pray secretly, or speake to God within hymselfe, which heareth all dumme thyngs: for in the church he ought to speake which may profit all men.