Acts and Monuments Volume 2 Part 2, Book 11 · Account 18 · Examination 14
*The 11. examination of Iohn Philpot, had on S. Andrewes day, before the Bishop of Duresme, the Bishop of Chichester, the Bishop of Bathe, the Bishop of London, the Prolocutor, Maister Christopherson, and Doct. Chedsey, Maister Morgan of Oxford, Maister Hussey of the Arches, Doctor Weston, Doctor Harpsfield, Archdeacon, M. Cosins and M. Iohnson Register to the Bishop of London, in hys palace.
I Was commyng beyng sent for with my Keeper,Yet an …ther ex…nation … Iohn Phil…pot be…or… Bishop… & Doctors. and the B. of London met me in his hall dore, and full manerly he played the Gentleman Usher to bryng mee before the Lordes, saying:
Lond.
My Lordes I shal desire you to take some paynes with this man, he is a gentleman, and I would he should do well: but he wil wilfully cast away hymselfe.
Dures.
Come hether sir, what is your name?
Phil.
My name is Philpot.
Dures.
I hauehave heard of that name to be a worshipful stock, and since you be a Gentleman, doe as you may liue worshipfully among other Gentlemen. What is the cause of your trouble now?
Phil.
I told hym the cause as in my former examinations is expressed.
Dures.
Well, all causes set apart, will you now bee a conformable mā to the catholike faith, and leaue all new fangled opinions and heresies? Iwis I was in Germany with Luther at the beginning of these opinions, & can tell how they began. Leaue them, and follow the Catholique church throughout the whole world, as the whole realme now doth.
Phil.
My Lord, I am of the Catholike fayth, and desire to lyue and dye in the same, but it is not vnknowen to your Lordshippe, that I with others these xx. yeres hauehave bene taught another maner of faith then you now goe about to compell vsus vntounto: wherefore it is requisite that we hauehave a tyme to weigh the same, and to heare how it agreeth with Gods word. For fayth is not at a sodaine, neither wonne, neither remooued, but as S. Paule saith: Fayth commeth by hearyng, and hearing by the worde: Fides ex auditu, Setling of a mans conscience in religion requireth good aduisement. P…pistes will hauehave fayth to be compelled. Bernard▪ in cant… Serm. 66. Faith ought not to be compelled.auditus per verbum.
Chich.
And if you will geue me leaue my L. I will shewe hym how he taketh the saying of S. Paul amisse, as many other now adayes alledgyng the same do, that they ought not to be compelled to beleue, where as S. Paul meaneth of Infidels, and not of the faithfull. And so S. Augustine writyng agaynst the Donatistes, sayth: that the faythfull may be compelled to beleeue.
Philpot.
Saint Bernard (and if it please your Lordship) doth take that sense of Saint Paule as I doe, saying: that Fides est suadenda, & non imponenda: Faith must be persuaded to a man, and not enioyned. And Saint Augustine speaketh of suche as were first thoroughly perswaded by manifest Scriptures, and yet woulde resist of stubborne wilfulnesse.
Chich.
So Bernard meaneth of Infidels also.
Phil.
No, my Lord, that he doth not: for he wryteth not of the Infidels, but hee writeth of such as were deceiued by errours.
Chichester.
My L. of Duresme, I hauehave bene so bold to interrupt your Lordship of your tale: I pray you now proceed on.
Duresme.
M. Philpot will you bee of the same Catholike faith and Church with vsus you were baptised in, and your godfathers promised for you, and hold as we do? and then may you be rid out of trouble. I perceiue you are learned, and it is pitie but you should do well.
Philpot.
I am of the same Catholique fayth and catholique Church I was baptised vntounto,… and in that wyll I liue and dye.
Dures.
That is wel said: if you hold there, you cannot doe but well.
Chich.
Yea, my Lord, but he meaneth otherwyse then you do. Are you of the same faith your godfathers and godmothers were, or no?
Phil.
I cannot tell what faith they were of certainly, but I am of the faith I was baptised vntounto, which is, in the fayth of Christ. For I was not baptised in the faith of my Godfathers, but in the faith of Christ.
Christo.
S. Augustine saith, that Infants are baptised in fide susceptorum: In the fayth of their Godfathers.
Phil.
S. Augustine in so saying, meaneth of the fayth of Christ, which the Godfathers do or ought to beleeue, and not otherwyse.
Duresme.
How say you, will you beleeue as we do, and all the learned of the Realme or no, and be of one church with vsus?
Phil.
My Lordes it is not vnknown vntounto you, that there hath bene alwayes two churches.
Chichest.
Nay, that is not so: there is but one Catholike church.
Phil.
The true Church, … & … euer … c. 15. … true & … church … Abel … Caine.I shall desire your Lordships to heare out my tale, & to take my meanyng. For I knowe there is but one true Church: but always from the beginnyng there hath bene ioyned to the same true Church, a false Church, aduersarie to the true, and that was declared at the first in Abell and Caine, who persecuted and slew hys brother, in whome (as Saint Augustine witnesseth) is represented the false & true Church. And after that, as soone as God hath chosen his peculiar people, and shewed vntounto them his sanctuary, holy statutes, and will, anone after arose the false Church, and tenne of the twelue tribes of Israell deuided themselues from the true church of Iuda and Beniamin, and made to themselues at Bethel, & set vp golden calues, and yet pretended therewith to serue God, and so abused his word: Notwithstandyng, God was displeased with them, and ceased not hys wrath, vntill he had vtterly destroyed them.
Chich.
I will graunt you before the commyng of Christ, there were two churches in the old law: but in the newe law since Christes commyng, you cannot shew it to be so by the scripture.
Phil.
Yes my L. that I can, if you will geue me leaue. After Christ had chosē his xij. Apostles, was there not a Iudas in the new law, and a Simon Magus? And were not they of the false church?
Chich.
Yea, but I meane after the Gospell was written, where can you find me two churches after Christ had ascended, and sent the holy Ghost?
Phil.
The Gospell was within 8. yeares after the ascension written by S. Mathew, and the writyng therof is not materiall to the declaration of these two churches, to hauehave bene always from tyme to tyme, as by example it may be shewed: and yet as euil as my memory is, I remember in the new Testament is mention made of two churches,The B. of Chichester D Day … to a … ▪ as it appeareth in the Apocalyps: and also S. Paule to the Thessalonians maketh mention, that Antichrist with hys false generatiō shall sit in the temple. To the which Chichester replied not.
Dures.
The Church in the scripture is likened to a great fishers net, which conteineth in it both good fishes & bad fishes. I trust you wil be of the better sort, and leane to the truth.
Phil.
My Lord it is my whole desire now to follow that which is good, whatsoeuer I hauehave done in times past, and to cleaue to gods truth.
Dures.
Do you so, and then shall you do well. It is almost night, my L. of London, I must needes be gone.
Lond
Nay, my L. of Duresme, I must desire your Lordship,The Bysh…p… … to be wea…y of … parte. and my L. of Chichester to tary a litle while. And before he had so sayd, the B. of Bathe went his way without saying any word. What my L. of Bath will you be gone? I pray you tary. My Lordes, I hauehave earnest matter to charge this man withall, wherof I would your lordships to be made priuy▪ and I hauehave them here written in a libel. I pray you sit downe againe, or els I will. First I …ay to him here,B. Boner would fayne picke out matter if he could tell how. that hee hath written in a Bible which I tooke from hym, this erroneous saying: Quod spiritus est vicarius Christi in terra. i. The holy Ghost is Christes Uicare in earth. Wilt thou abide by this saying of thine. That the spirit is Christes vicar on earth?
Phil.
My L. it is not my saying, it is a better learned mās then myne. For I vse not to write myne owne sayings, but the notable sayings of other auncient writers, as all the others be where ye find the same writen. And as I remember, it is euen the saying of Saint Bernard, & a saying that I neede not to be ashamed of, neyther you to bee offended, as my L. of Duresme, and my L. of Chichester by their learnyng can discerne, and will not recken it euill sayd.
Lond.
No will? Why, take away the first syllable, and it foundeth Arius.
Phil.
That is farre fetched in deede: if your Lordship will scan mens sayings in such wise, you may finde out what you list.
Lond.
But to helpe this, I finde moreouer written wyth hys owne hand in another booke:An other matter picked agaynst Iohn Philpot. In me Ioanne Philpotto vbi abundauit peccatum, superabundauit & gratia: that is▪ In me Iohn Philpot where sinne did abound, grace hath superabounded. I pray you what superabundāt grace hauehave you more then other men? So said Arius, that he had the aboundance of grace aboue all other.
Phil.
My L. you neede not to be offended with that saying more then the other, for it is the saying of S. Paule hymself, and I did apply it to my self for my comfort,Rom. 5. 1. Tim. 1. knowing that though my sinnes be huge & great in the sight of God yet is his mercy & grace aboue them all. And concernyng Arius & his adherents, I defie them, as it is well known I hauehave written against them.
Lond.
Also I lay to thy charge that thou killedst thy father and wast accursed of thy mother in her deathbed, as I can bring witnes hereof.
Phil.
O Lord, what blasphemy is this?Iohn Philpot falsly charged with vntruth, when no truth can be found agaynst him. Hath your Lordship nothing of truth to charge me withall, but (as I may speake it with your honoures) such forged blasphemous lyes? If any of these can be prooued, I will promise here to recant at Paules Crosse, what you wil hauehave me: I am so sure they are as great blasphemies as may bee obiected agaynst any man. Ha, my Lordes, I pray you consider how my L. of London hath hitherto proceded against me: for in deed he hath none other but such pretensed slaunderous lyes.
Chich.
They be Parerga: that is, matters beside the purpose.
Dures.
My Lord, I must needes bid you farewell.
Lond.
Nay my Lord, here is a letter which I shall desire your Lordship to heare ere you goe.M. Philpot charged with a letter written to M. Grene. This letter torne in the blinde tower read before pag. 1382. col. 2. This man (beyng in my kepyng) hath taken vponupon hym to write letters out of prison, & to peruert a yong Gentleman called M. Greene in my house, (call him hither) and hath made a false report of his examination, as you shall heare, not beyng content to be euill himselfe, but to make others as bad as himselfe. He all to tare the letter when he saw my man went about to search hym, but yet I hauehave pieced it agayne togither, & caused a copy to be written therof, and he red the torne letter, biddyng M. Christopherson and Morgan to marke the copy thereof.
The contents of the letter was the examination of M. Greene before the B. of London in the presence of Maister Feckenham Deane of Paules, and of diuers others,The contents of M. Philpots letter to M. Grene. whose ready answers in the Scriptures and in the Doctors was wondred at of the Deane hymselfe, and of many others, as M. Fecknam did report: and that he was committed to D. Chadsey, and to hauehave his meat from the Bishops owne table. How say you my Lords, was this wel done of hym beyng my prisoner, to write this? And yet he hath written a shamefull lye, that he was in D. Chadseys keping. How say you M. Doc. Chadsey, is it not a shamefull lye?
Chad.
Yes my L. he was neuer in my keping.
London.
Art thou not ashamed to write suche shamefull lyes? Come hether M. Greene,M. Grene called. did not I shew you this letter?
Greene.
Yea forsooth my L. you shewed it me.
Lond.
How thinke you my Lordes, is not this an honest man to belye me?
Phil.
Your Lordship doth mistake all things. This letter (as your Lordship may perceiue,M. Philpot agayne charged with an vntruth. and all other that hauehave heard the same) was not written by me, but by a friend of myne, certifieng me at my request how M. Greene sped at the B. of Londons hands: and there is nothing in the letter that either I, or he that wrote it neede to feare, but that might be written as my report.
London.
Then tell me who wrote it, if you dare.
Phil.
No, my L. it is not my duty to accuse my friend, and specially seyng you will take all thyngs at the worst: neither you shall neuer know of me who wrote it. Your lordship may see in ye end of the letter, that my friend did write vntounto me vppon the occasion of my appeale which I hauehave made to the whole Parliament house about such matters as I am wrongfully troubled for.
London.
I would see any so hardy to put vppe thine Appeale.
Phil.
My L. I cannot tell what God will worke, I hauehave written it,Note what great gentlenes this Bishop sheweth to Philpot and compare the same with the handling now of him in his imprisonment. speed as it may.
Lond
My L. I hauehave vsed him with much gentlenes since he came to me. How sayst thou, hauehave I not?
Phil.
If to lie in the vilest prison in this towne (being a gē tleman, and an Archdeacon) and in a colehouse by the space of v. or vj. weekes alredy, without fire or candle, bee to be counted gentlenes at your handes, I must needes say I hauehave found gentlenes. But there were neuer men so cruelly handled as we are at these dayes.
London.
Loe, what a Uarlet is this? Besides this (my Lordes) euen yesterday hee procured hys man to bryng a bladder of blacke Pouder, I can not tell for what purpose I.
Phil.
Your Lordship needeth not to mistrust the matter: it is nothing but to make inke withall, for lack of inke, as I had it before in the kings Bench, when my keeper tooke away my inkehorne.
Lond.
And why shouldst thou go about any such thing vnknowyng vntounto me beyng thy keeper? for I am thy keeper in this house I tell thee.
Phil.
My L. because you hauehave caused my penner and inkehorne to bee taken from mee,Blacke pouder … to Iohn Philpot to make Inke. I woulde yet faine that my friends might vnderstand what I lacke, not that I intended to write any thing that I would be afraid shold come to your sight.
Lond.
More then this my L. he caused a pig to be roasted, and made a knife to be put betwene the skin, and the flesh, for what purpose iudge you. How sayest thou, didst thou not so?
Phil.
I cannot deny but there was halfe a pig sent me, and vnderunder the same a knife lying in the sauce, but for no ill purpose that I knowe, your Lordship may iudge what you will.False surmises …ayd agaynst Iohn Philpot. It was not to kill my selfe, nor none other, as you would hauehave men to beleue: for I was neuer yet without a knife since I came to prison. Therefore all these bee but false surmises, and not worth rehersall.
Lond.
I hauehave here to say to his charge (chiefest of all) hys booke of the report of the disputation had in the Conuocation house, which is the rākest heresie that may be, against the blessed Sacrament of the aultar. How say you, Maister D. Weston? did he maintain the same there stubbornly, or no?
West.
Yea my L. that he did, and would neuer be aunswered. And it is pity that the same worshipfull congregation should be slaundered with such vntrue reports.
Phil.
D. Westons chiefe argumēts in the conuocation house.You answered me in deed, M. Doct. (beyng thē Prolocutor) goodly, with hold thy peace, and hauehave hym to prison, and put hym out of the house. I hauehave read the booke, & I fynde the report of eueryevery mans Argument to be true in all poynts. And if there be any fault, it is, because he setteth forth your doynges too fauourably, and nothyng lyke to that you did vse me, beyng an Archdeacon, and not of the worst of the house.
West.
Thou art no Archdeacon.
Phil.
In deed M. Doct. ye hauehave among you vnarchdeaconed me as now (I thanke God of it) and that without all order of law.
Lond.
I pray you my Lordes hearken what he writeth of himselfe. I read it ouer this morning, and made a note of it. He saith, that D. Weston called hym frantike and mad man, and sayd, he should go to Bedlem.
Phil.
In deed my L. so it pleased M. Weston to taunt at me and say his shamefull pleasure: but yet I was no whitte the more for all his sayinges, then Christ was when the Scribes & the Pharises said likewyse he was madde, and that he was possessed of a deuill, most blasphemously.
Dures.
My L. of London I can tary no longer. I must needes bid you farewell.Bishop Tonstall a…d M. Weston … ouer the matter. M. Philpot, me thinketh you hauehave sayd well, that you will abide in the Catholike faith, and in the Catholike Church: I pray you so do, and you shall do right well. And so hee departed with M. Weston and M. Hussey.
Phil.
I hauehave purposed so to doe, how so euer I speede, by Gods grace.
Lond.
I pray you my L. of Chichester, and M. Prolocutor and M. Doct. Morgan, to common with hym whyles I bryng my L. of Duresme goyng.
Christopherson.
M. Philpot, I was acquaynted with you at Rome (if you bee remembred, but you hauehave forgotten me) and talked somewhat with you of these matters, and I finde you now the same man as you were then. I wish it were otherwyse. For gods sake bee conformable to men that be better learned then you, and stand not in your own conceit.
Phil.
Where as you call mee to remembraunce of acquaintance had at Rome, in deede it was so, though it were but very straunge on your part to meward, beyng driuen to necessitie.
Christoph.
You knowe the world was dangerous at that tyme.
Philpot.
Nothing so dangerous as it is now: but let that passe. Where as you say, you find me the same man I was then, I prayse God for that you see not me like a reed waueryng with euerye wynde. And where as you woulde hauehave me follow better learned men then my selfe: in deed I do acknowledge that you with a great many other,Wisedom… in Gods matters consisteth not in … learning. are far better learned then I, whose bookes in respect of learnyng, I am not worthy to cary after you: but fayth & the wisedome of God consisteth not in learning onelyonly, & therfore S. Paule willeth, that our fayth be not grounded vppon the wisedome of man. If you can shew by learnyng out of Gods booke, yt I ought to be of an other fayth then I am, I will heare you and anye other man whatsoeuer he bee.
Christoph.
I meruaile why you should dissent from the catholike Church, since it hath thus long vniuersallye bene receiued, except within this fiue or sixe yeares here in England.
Phil.
I do not dissent from the true catholike church: I do only dissent from the B. of Rome, which if you can prooue to be the catholike church of Christ, I will bee of the same also with you.
Christo.
Wil you beleue S. Cyprian, if I can shew you out of hym. Quòd Ecclesia Romana est talis ad quam perfidia accedere non potest: That the Church of Rome is such a one, vntounto the which misbeliefe cannot approch.
Phil.
I am sure you cannot shew any such saying out of s. Cyprian.
Christo.
What will you lay thereon?
Phil.
I will lay as much as I am able to make.
Morgan.
Will you promise to recant, if he shew his saying to be true?
Phil.
My fayth shall not hang vponupon any Doctours saying, further then he shalbe able to prooue the same by gods worde.
Christo.
I wil go fet the booke and shew it him by and by: and therwithall he went into the Bishops study, & fet Cyprian, & appointed out these words in one of his Epistles: Ad Romanos autem quorum fides Apostolo praedicante laudata est, non potest accedere perfidia: Cyprian. ad Corne. li. 1. Epist. 3.But vntounto the Romaines whose fayth by the testimony of the Apostle, is praysed, misbeliefe can hauehave no accesse.
Phil.
These wordes of Cyprian doe nothing prooue your pretensed assertion, which is, that to the Church of Rome there could come no misbeliefe.
Christoph.
Good Lord, no doth? What can bee sayde more plainely?
Philpot.
Hee speaketh not of the Churche of Rome absolutely.
Christo.
By God, a chyld that can but his Grammer, wyll not deny that you do, the words be so playne.
Phil.
Sweare not M. Doct. but weigh Cyprians wordes with me, and I shall make you to say as I hauehave sayd.
Christo.
I am no D. but I perceiue it is but labour lost to reason with you.
Boner.
And with that the B. of London came in blowyng agayne, and sayd:D Day Bishop of Chichester shrinketh also away. What is my L. of Chichester gone away also? (for he euen a little before departed also without any other word saying, but he must needes be gone.) What is the matter you now stand vponupon?
Morgan.
M. Christopherson hath shewed M. Philpot a notable place of the authoritie of the Church of Rome, and he maketh nothyng of it.
Boner.
Where is the place? let me see. By my faith here is a place alone. Come hither sir, what say you to this? Nay tary a little, I will helpe this place with S. Paules owne testimony the first to the Romaines, where he sayeth, that their faith is preached throughout the world: how cā you be able to answer to this?
Phil.
Yes, my L. it is soone aunswered, if you will consider al the words of Cyprian: for he speaketh of such as in his tyme were faithfull at Rome,The plac… of Cypri… expo…n…. that folowed the doctrine of saint Paul, as he had taught them, and as it was notified throughout the world by an Epistle which he had written in the commendation of their fayth. With such as are praised of S. Paul at Rome, for followyng the true faith, misbeliefe can hauehave no place. And now if you can shewe that the faith which the church of Rome holdeth now,… is that faith which the Apostle praised & allowed in the Romans in his tyme, then wil I say that S. Cyprian then said, and with you, that infidelitie can hauehave no place there: but otherwyse it maketh not absolutely for the authority of the Church of Rome, as you do mistake it.
Christo.
You vnderstand Cyprian well in deed: I thinke you neuer red hym in your lyfe.
Phil.
Yes, M. Doct. that I hauehave, I can shew you a booke noted with myne owne hand: though I hauehave not read so much as you, yet I hauehave read somewhat. It is shame for you to wrast and wreath the Doctors as you do, to maintain a fals religion, which be altogether against you, if you take them aright, and in deede your false packing of doctors together,… hath geuen me and others occasion to looke vponupon them, wherby we find you shamefull liers, and misreporters of the ancient doctors.
Morgan.
What, wil you be in hand to allow doctors now? they of your sect do not so. I meruaile thereof you will allow them.
Phil.
I do allow them in as much as they doe agree wyth the scriptures, and so do al they which be of the truth, how so euer you terme vsus: and I prayse God for that good vnderstandyng I hauehave receyued by them.
Christo.
What, you vnderstand not the Doctors, you may be ashamed to say it.
Phil.
I thanke God I vnderstand them better then you: for you hauehave Excaecationem cordis, The blindnes of heard, so that you vnderstand not truely what you read, no more then the wall here, as the takyng of Cyprian doth wel declare. And afore God, you are but deceyuers of the people,… for all your brag you make of learnyng, neyther hauehave ye Scripture or auncient doctour on your side, being truly taken.
Morgan.
Why, all the Doctors be on our side, and agaynst you altogether.
Phil.
Yea, so you say when you be in your pulpits alone, & none to answer you. But if you wil come to cast accounts with me therof, I will venter with you a recantatiō, that I (as little sight as I hauehave in the doctors) wil bring more authorities of ancient Doctors on my side, then you shall be able for yours, and he yt can bring most, to him let ye other side yeeld. Are ye so content herewith?
Christo.
It is but folly to reason with you: you wil beleue no man but yourselfe.
Phil.
I will beleue you or any other learned man, if you cā bring any thing worthy to be beleued. You cannot winne me with vaine words from my fayth. Before God there is no truth in you.
Morgan.
What, no truth, no truth? ha, ha, he.
Phil.
Except the Articles of the Trinitie, you are corrupt in all other thyngs, and sound in nothyng.
Morgan.
What say you? do we not beleeue well on the sacrament?
Philpot.
It is the thing which (among all other) you doe most abuse.
Morgan.
Wherein I pray you? tell vsus.
Phil.
I hauehave told you before (M. Doct.) in the Conuocation house.
Morgan.
…Yea marry: in deed you told vsus there very well. For there you fell down vponupon your knees, and fel to weepyng: ha, ha, ha.
Phil.
I did weepe in deed, and so did Christ vponupon Ierusalem, and am not to be blamed therefore, if you consider the cause of my weepyng.
Morgan.
What, make you your selfe Christ? ha, ha.
Phil.
No sir, I make not my selfe Christ: but I am not ashamed to do as my maister and sauiour did, to bewaile & lament your infidelitie and idolatrye, which I there foresaw thorough tyranny you would bryng agayne to this realme, as this day doth declare.
Morgan.
That is your argument.
Christo.
The Sacra…t abu…es b… the Papistes, … and ….Wherein do we abuse the Sacrament? tell vsus.
Phil.
As I may touch but one of the least abuses, you minister it not in both kynds as you ought to doe, but keepe the one halfe from the people, contrary to Christes institution.
Christo.
Why, is there not as much conteined in one kynd, as in both? And what neede is it then to minister in both kyndes?
Phil.
I beleeue not so, for if it had, Christ would hauehave geuē but one kind only:Sacrament … …ind. for he instituted nothing superfluous, and therfore you cannot say that the whole effect of the sacrament is as well in one kind, as in both, since the scripture teacheth otherwyse.
Christo.
What, if I can prooue it by scripture, that we may minister it in one kind? The apostles did so, as it may appeare in the Actes of the Apostles, in one or two places, where it is written that the Apostles continued In orationibus & fractione panis: In prayers, and in breakyng of breade, which is ment of the Sacrament.
Philpot.
Why, Maister Doctour, do you not knowe that Saint Luke by the makyng mention of the breakyng of bread, meaneth the whole vse of the sacrament, accordyng to Christes institution, by a Figure which you hauehave learned in Grammer, *Synechdoche is a figure wh…n by one thing or by part, the whole is vnderstanded. Eusebius hath these wordes: Parum Eucharistiae puero dedit. i. He gaue a litle of the Sacrament to the boy: which words may very well comprehende both partes: and it seemeth by the wordes that follow, that part of it was licour, for it is written in the same place: Iussit vt id infunderet et in os senis instillaret. i. He commaunded that he should poure it and droppe it into the olde mans mouth, & so he did. Eusebius in Eccles. hist. lib. 6. cap. 44.Synecdoche, where part is mentioned, and the whole vnderstanded to bee done, as Christ commanded it.
Christo
Nay, that is not so. For I can shew out of Euseb. in Eccles hist. that there was a man of God, (whom he named) that sent the Sacrament in one kynd by a boy to one that was sicke.
Phil.
I hauehave read in deed that they did vse to geue yt was left of the Communion bread, to children, to mariners, & to women, and so peraduenture the boy might cary a piece of that was left to the sicke man.
Christo.
Nay, as a Sacrament it was purposely sent vntounto hym.
Phil.
If it were so, yet can you not precisely say, that he had not the cup ministred vntounto him also by some other sent vntounto him: but though one man did vse it thus, doth it folow that all men may do the like? S. Cyprian noteth many abuses of the sacrament in his tyme, which rose vppon singular mēs examples, as vsing of water in stead of wyne: therfore he sayth: Non respiciendum quid aliquis ante nos fecerit, sed quid Christus qui omnium primus, ante nos fecerit & mandauit: that is, Wee must not looke what any man hath done before vsus, but what Christ first of all men did & commanded.
Christo.
Hath not the church taught vsus so to vse the sacrament? and how do we know that Christ is Homousios, that is, of one substance with the father, but by the determination of the church? How can you prooue that otherwise by expresse words of scripture, and where find you Homousios in all the scripture?
Phil.
Yes, that I doe, in the 1. to the Hebrues, where it is written, that Christ is the expresse Image of Gods owne substance, eiusdem substantiae.
Christo.
Nay, that is not so. It is. There is no more but expressa imago substantiae: The expresse image of gods substance, and Image is accident.
Phil.
It is in the text, Of his substance, Substantiae illius ▪ or of his owne substance, as it may be right wel interpreted. Besides this, that which Christ spake of himself in s. Ioh. manifesteth the same, saying: I & the father be one thing: Ego & pater vnum sumus. And where as you say, Imago here is accidence, the ancient fathers vse this for a strong argument, to prooue Christ to be God, because he is the very Image of God.
Christo.
Yea do? is this a good argument, because wee are the Image of God, Ergo, we are God.
Phil.
We are not called the expresse Image of God,The Image of God is not like in Christ, and in vsus. as it is written of Christ, and wee are but the Image of God by participation, & as it is written in Genesis, wee are made to the likenesse and similitude of God. But you ought to know (M. Christoph,) that there is no accidence in God, & therfore Christ cannot be the image of God, but he must be of the same substance with God.
Christo.
Tush.
Morgan.
How say you to the presence of the Sacrament?Presence of the Sacrament. will you stand to the iudgement here of your booke, or no? or will you recant?
Phil.
I know you go but about to catch me in wordes. If you can prooue that booke to be of my setting forth, lay it to my charge when I come to iudgement.
Morgan.
Speake, be you of the same mynd as this booke is of, or no? Sure I am you were once, vnlesse you become another maner of man then you were.
Phil.
What I was, you know: what I am, I will not tell you now: but this I wil say to you by the way, that if you can prooue your Sacrament of the Masse (as you now vse it) to be a sacrament, I will then grant you a presence:The Sacrament of the Masse as it is vsed, is no Sacrament. but first you must prooue the same a sacrament, and afterward entreat of the presence.
Morgan.
Ho, do you doubt that it is a sacrament?
Phil.
I am past doubtyng, for I beleeue you can neuer be able to prooue it a Sacrament.
Christo.
Yea doe, good Lord, doth not S. Augustine call it the sacrament of the aultar? How say you to that?
Phil.
That maketh nothyng for the probation of your Sacrament. For so he with other auncient writers do call the holy Communion or the supper of the Lord in respect that it is the Sacrament of the Sacrifice which Christ offered vponupon the aultar of the Crosse, the which Sacrifice all the aultars and sacrifices done vponupon the aultares in the olde lawe did prefigure and shadow, the which pertaineth nothyng to your sacrament hangyng vponupon your aultares of lyme and stone.
Christo.
No doth? I pray you what signifieth aultar?
Phil.
Altar what it signifieth.Not as you falsly take it, materially, but for the sacrifice of the aultar of the crosse.
Christo.
Where finde you it euer so taken?
Phil.
Yes that I do in S. Paul to the Hebrues 13. where he saith: Habemus altare de quo non est fas edere his qui tabernaculo deseruiunt: We hauehave an aultar, of the which it is not law full for them to eate, that serue the tabernacle. Is not aultare there taken for the sacrifice of the aultar, and not for the altar of lyme and stone?
Christo.
Wel, God blesse me out of your company. You are such an obstinate heretike, as I hauehave not heard the lyke.
Phil.
Christopherson for lacke of better profe falleth to exclaming.I pray God kepe me from such blind doctors, which when they are not able to prooue what they say, then they fall to blasphemyng (as you nowe doe) for lacke of better proofe. In the meane while the B. of London was talking with some other by, & at length came in to supply his part and sayd.
Boner.
I pray you maisters, hearken what I shall saye to this man: come hither maister Greene. And now sir (pointing to me) you can not thinke it sufficient to bee naught your selfe, but must go about to procure this yong gentleman by your letters to do the lyke.
Phil.
My Lord he cannot say, that I euer hitherto wrote vntounto hym concernyng any such matter, as hee here can testifie.
Greene.
No, you neuer wrote vntounto me.
Boner.
Why, is not this your letter which you did wryte concernyng hym?
Phil.
I hauehave shewed your Lordship my mynd concerning that letter alredy: it was not written to M. Greene, neyther was he priuy of the writyng thereof.
Lond.
Wrangling matter agaynst M. Philpot.How say you then, If a man be in an error, and you know thereof, what are you bound to do in such a case?
Philpot.
I am bound to do the best I can to bring hym out of it.
Lond.
If M. Grene here be in the like, are you not bounde to reforme him thereof if you can?
Phil.
Yes that I am, & wil do to the vttermost to my power therein. The B. remembryng hymselfe, thinking that he would but shrewdly after his expectation be holpen at my mouth, but rather cōfirmed in that which he called an errour, ceased to go any further in hys demaund, and called M. Greene aside, and before his Register red hym a letter. I know not the contents thereof: and therewithal he gaue M. Greene the booke of my disputation in the cō uocation house, and afterward went aside, commoning wt M. Christopherson, leauyng M. Morgan, maister Harpsfield, and M. Cosins to reason with me in the hearyng of M. Greene.
Morgan.
Iohn Philpots religion elder then Popery by a 1000. yeares.M. Philpot I would aske you how old your religion is.
Philpot.
It is older then yours by a thousand yeares and moe.
Morgan.
I pray you where was it fifty yeares ago?
Phil.
It was in Germany apparant by the testimony of Husse, Ierome of Prage, and Wickliffe, whome your generation a hundreth yeares agoe and moe, dyd burne for preachyng the truth vntounto you: and before their tyme and since hath bene, although vnderunder persecution it hath bene put to silence.
Morgan.
This religion was not s…ene openly a 100. yeares ago: Ergo this religion was not. The antecedent is true and the consequent false.That is a maruelous strange religion, which no man can tell certainly where to find it.
Phil.
It ought to be no meruail vntounto you to see gods truth through violence oppressed: forsh it hath bene frō the beginning from time to tyme, as it appereth by stories, & as Christes true religion is now to be found here in Englād although hypocrisie hath by violence the vpper hād. And in the Apocalyps you may see it was prophesied, that the true Church should be driuen into corners, and into wildernes, and suffer great persecution.
Morgan
A, are you seene in the Apocalyps? there are many strange thyngs.
Phil.
If I tel you the truth which you are not able to refel beleeue it, & dally not out so earnest matters. Me thinke you are liker a scoffer in a play, then a reasonable doctor to instruct a man: you are bare arsed & dance naked in a net, and yet you see not your owne nakednes.
Morgan.
Scoffing Morgan.What (I pray you) be not so quicke with me. Let vsus talke a little more coldly together.
Philpot.
I will talke with you as mildely as you can desire, if you wil speake learnedly and charitably. But if you go about with taunts to delude truth, I will not hyde it from you.
Morgan.
Why, will you not submit your iudgement to the learned men of this Realme?
Phil.
Because I see they can bring no good ground, whereupon I may with a good conscience settle my fayth more surely then on that which I am now grounded vppon by Gods manifest word.
Morgan.
No do? that is maruell that so many learned men should be deceyued.
Phil.
It is no maruell by S. Paule: for he sayeth, That not many wyse, 1. Cor. ….neither many learned after the world bee called to the knowledge of the Gospell.
Morgan.
HaueHave you then alone the spirite of God, and not we?
Phil.
I say not that I alone hauehave the spirite of God, but as many as abide in the true faith of Christ, hauehave the spirit of God as well as I.
Morgan.
Howe knowe you that you hauehave the Spirite of God?
Phil.
By the fayth of Christ which is in me.
Morgan.
A, by faith do you so? I ween it be the spirit of the buttry,Morgan falleth to Scoffing … rayling at the good Martyrs of God. which your fellowes hauehave had that hauehave ben burned before you, who were dronk the night before they wēt to their death, and I weene went dronken vntounto it.
Phil.
It appeareth by your communication, that you are better acquainted with the spirit of the Buttry, then with the spirit of God. Wherefore I must now tell thee (thou painted wall & hypocrite) in the name of the liuing Lord, whose truth I hauehave told thee, that God shal raine fire and brimstone vponupon such scorners of his worde, and blasphemers of his people as thou art.
Morgan.
What, you rage now.
Phil.
Thy foolish blasphemies hath compelled the spirit of God which is in me, to speake that which I hauehave said vntounto thee, thou enemy of all righteousnes.
Morgan.
Why do you iudge me so?
Phil.
By thine owne wicked words I iudge of thee, thou blynd and blasphemous Doctour: for as it is written: By thy words thou shalt be iustified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. I hauehave spoken on Gods behalfe, & now hauehave I done with thee.
Morgan.
Why, then I tel thee Philpot, that thou art an heretike, and shalt be burnt for thine heresy, and afterwards go to hell fire.
Phil.
I tel thee, thou hypocrite,Iohn Philpot with great zeale▪ denounceth hell fier to Morgan vnlesse he repent. that I passe not this for thy fire and fagots, neither (I thanke God my Lord) stande in feare of the same: my faith in Christ shall ouercome thē. But the hel fire which thou threatnest me, is thy portion, and is prepared for thee (vnlesse thou spedily repent) and for such hypocrites as thou art.
Morgan.
What, thou speakest vponupon wyne, thou hast tipled well to day, by likelihood.
Phil.
So said the cursed generation, of the Apostles beyng replenished with the holy Ghost, & speaking the wōdrous works of God, they said they were dronk, when they had nothing els to say, as thou doest now.
Morgan.
Why, I am able to answer thee, ywis, I trow.
Phil.
So it seemeth with blasphemies and lyes.
Morgan.
Nay, euen with learnyng, say what thou canst.
Phil.
That appeared well at my disputation in the Conuocation house,Morgan sombling & stammering in the Conuocation house. where thou tookest vponupon thee to aunswer those few arguments I was permitted to make, and yet wast not able to aunswere one, but in thyne aunsweres did fumble and stammer, that the whole house was ashamed of thee: and the finall conclusion of all thine answers was, that thou couldst answer me, if I were in the scholes at Oxford.
Morgan.
What, did I so? thou beliest me.
Phil.
I do not belye thee: the booke of the report of ye disputation beareth record therto, and al that were present then, can tell (if they list) thou saydst so. And I tell thee playne, thou art not able to answer that spirit of truth, which speaketh in me for the defence of Christes true Religion. I am able by the might therof, to driue thee roūd about this gallery before me: and if it would please the queenes maiesty and her Councell to heare thee and me, I woulde make thee for shame shrinke behinde the doore.
Morgan.
Yea would you so?
Phil.
Thou hast the spirite of Illusion and Sophistrye, which is not able to counteruaile the spirit of truth.Morgan taken vp for halting. Thou art but an Asse in the true vnderstanding of thinges pertayning vntounto God. I cal thee Asse not in respect of malice, but in that thou kickest agaynst the trueth, and art voyde of all godly vnderstāding, not able to answere to that thou braggest in.
Morgan.
Why, hauehave I not answered thee in all things thou hast sayd vntounto me? I take them to record.
Phil.
Aske of my felow whether I be a theefe.
Cosins.
Harke, he maketh vsus all theeues.
Phil.
You know that phrase of the Prouerbe, that like will holde with like. And I am sure, you will not iudge with me, against him, speake I neuer so true: and in this sense I speake it. The strongest answere that he hath made against me is, that you will burne me.
Morgan.
Why, we doe not burne you: it is the Temporall men that burne you, and not we.
Phil.
Thus you woulde (as Pilate dyd) washe your handes of all your wicked doinges. But I pray you Inuocate seculare brachium: call vponupon the secular power to be executioners of your vnrighteous iudgementes. And hauehave you not a title in your law, De haereticis comburendis for, to burne heretickes?
Harps.
I hauehave hearde you both a good while reason together, and I neuer hearde so stout an hereticke as you are M. Philpot.
Cosins.
Neither I in all my life.
Phil.
You are not able to proue me an heretick, by one iote of Gods word.
Harps.
You hauehave the Spirite of arrogancy, I will reason with you no more.M. Harps… an… C…fins …. And so he was departing, and M. Cosins also. And with that the bishop and Christoforsō came in agayne, and sayd.
Boner.
Mayster Doctour, howe doeth this man and you agree?
Morgan.
My Lord, I doe aske him where his church was fifty yeares agoe?
Boner.
Are you not halfe agreed, as one man sayd once to tway parties, of whō the one was equally disagreeing frō the other?
Christo.
My Lorde, it is but folly to reason with hym any further: your Lordshippe shall but loose time, for he is incurable.
Boner.
Well then, let his keeper hauehave him away· And with that Doct. Chadsey led me a way by the which we coulde not passe, and therfore came backe agayne through the byshops chamber, where al these doctors were clustred together: and as I was passing, the Bishoppe tooke me by the gowne and sayd: Wote you what M. Christoferson telleth me? I pray you M. Christoforson, rehearse the sentence in Latine, and so he did. The contentes thereof was, that an hereticke would not be won.
Christo.
S. Paule sayth: Haereticum hominem post vnam atque alteram admonitionem deuita: Flee an heretick after once or twise warning.
All the Doctors.
Yea, my Lord, it is best you so do, & trouble your Lordship no more with him.
Phil.
Christian truth called heresie.You must first proue me iustly to be an hereticke, before you vse the iudgement of S. Paule agaynst me: for he speaketh of such as hold opiniō against the manifest word, the which you cannot proue by me. And because you want in your proofe, & be able to proue nothing agaynst me, therfore you go about falsly to suppose me to be an heretick, for the safegard of your owne counterfeit honesties: but afore God you are the heretickes, which so stoutly & stubburnly mainteine so many thinges directly agaynst Gods word, as God in his time shall reueale. As I wēt out of his chā ber, the Bishop called me aside and sayd:
Boner.
I pray thee in good sadnes, what meanest thou by writing in the beginning of the Bible: Spiritus est Vicarius Christi in terris: The holy Ghost is Christes Vicar vponupon …, and … ▪The spirit is the vicar of Christ on the earth? Iwis you hauehave some speciall meaning therof.
Phil.
My Lorde, I hauehave none other meaning then (as I hauehave tolde you alreadye) that Christe since hys ascension worketh all thinkes in vsus by his spirite, and by his spirite doth dwell in vsus. I pray you my Lord, let me hauehave my bible, with other lawfull bookes and writinges whiche you hauehave of mine, whereof many of them be none of myne, but lent to me by my frendes.
Boner.
Your Bible you shall not hauehave, but I will perhaps let you hauehave an other: & after I hauehave perused the rest, you shall hauehave such as I thinke good.
Phil.
I pray your Lordshippe then, that you would let me hauehave candle light.
Boner.
To what purpose, I pray you?
Phil.
The nightes be long, & I would fain occupy my selfe about somewhat and not spend my time idlely.
Boner.
You may then pray.
Phil.
I cannot well say my prayers without light.
Boner.
… Phil… denyed … ▪Can you not say your Pater noster, without a Candle? I tell you sir, you shall hauehave some meate and drink of me, but candle you get none.
Phil.
I had leauer hauehave a Candle, then your meate or drinke: but seeing I shall not hauehave my request, the Lorde shalbe my light.
Boner.
HaueHave him downe.
Chad.
I will bring him to his keeper, my Lord. M. Philpot, I wonder that all these learned men whom you hauehave talked withall this day, can nothing perswade you?
Phil.
Why, M. Doctor, would you hauehave me to be perswaded with nothing? or would you hauehave me builde my fayth vponupon sand? What do you all bring, wherby I ought by any sufficient authority to be perswaded to you?
Chad.
I am sory you will so wilfully cast away your selfe, where as you might liue worshipfully. Do you not thinke other hauehave soules to saue as well as you hauehave?
Phil.
EueryEvery man shall receiue according to his owne doinges. Sure I am you are deceiued and mainteine a false religiō: and as for my casting away, I would my burning day were to morow: for this delay is eueryevery day to dye, and yet not to be dead.
Chad.
You are not like to dye yet, I can tell you.
Phil.
I am the more sory thereof. But the will of God bee done of me to his glory. Amen.