A Little Stone Found to be Counterfeit, Treatise · Part 1 · Section 8
SECTION VIII. Mr. Lockyers Objections he maketh to himſelf, and his Anſwers thereto, conſidered.
section 1 MR. Lockier having diſcharged that bitter foregoing invective againſt the oppoſers of his way, comes to propound and anſwer ſome Objections againſt himſelf, choiſed out, and formed at his own pleaſure, Five, in number, whereof two only are in cauſâ. Were there no other Arguments worthy of his conſideration, beſides theſe, to be found in Orthodox Writers oppoſite to his way? If he thinks not; it will ſeem he hes not read ſuch Writers on this purpoſe as he might and ought, for clearing of himſelf and others: If he knew others, why did he not aſſay to clear them alſo? I think he had not will to preſent before his hearers all Arguments brought againſt his Doctrine, leaſt he ſhould not ridde his feet well of them, and ſomething thereof might have ſtuck to ſuch as was judicious. Whatſoever hes moved him ſo to paſſe them over, we hope it ſhall ſhortly appear, he had ſome cauſe rather to paſſe them in ſilence; then to hazard grappling with them: it was his prudence ſo to do: But let's ſee theſe he hath, and his anſwers to them.
section 2 Obj. 1. Why? But they gather Churches out of Churches whom you plead for. Why? I thought the Diſpute hitherto ye have been on, was not about perſons and their practiſes; but about a dogmatick point. Had we been propounding Objections to you, we ſhould not troubled our ſelves with theſe extrinſecall ones, taken from prejudices againſt perſons, abaters of your Doctrine: But ſhould more directly pointed at the throat of the cauſe it ſelf. Yet we think all Godly Orthodox men in the Chriſtian World, beſides your ſelves, will judge that the Godly Miniſters of Chriſt in this Iland have juſt cauſe to lay this practice of picking out of Orthodox Churches (in which Jeſus Chriſt is ſoundly Taught, Sacraments adminiſtred according to their inſtitution, and are by the moſt judicious of your own way confeſſed to be true Churches from which it is not lawfull to make ſeparation) ſuch Profeſſours as by Gods bleſſing upon his Ordinances in theſe Churches have gotten moſt good, to make up of them Churches, to your ſelves. All Orthodox Chriſtians will judge this juſtly laid to your charge, as a Schiſmatick practice having no warrand or preſident in the Word of God, tending to the begetting of heart-burnings, diviſions, hatred amongſt Chriſtians, yea theſe of neareſt relations, Husband and Wife, Parents and Children, Magiſtrats and People; to the hindring and no wayes to the promoving of the Work of Reformation. But ſee what is ſaid to this.
section 3 Nay, it is but Churches out of a Church: Goſpel Churches out of a legall Nationall Church, and the one being aboliſhed, there may be, yea, there ought to be a departing from it and a gathering out of it unto the order which God hath inſtituted, ſo we finde Churches gathered out of that Church of the Jews, Gal. 1. 22. And whether he meaneth by being in Chriſt meerly according to profeſſion, ſee 1 Theſ. 2. 14. Anſ. 1. The citation of the 1 Theſ. 2. 14. for clearing what is meant by being in Chriſt, mentioned Gal. 1. 22. is a digreſſion from the purpoſe of the Objection and hath been ſufficiently anſwered before. 2. You gather Churches, ſay you, out of a Church, not out of Churches. This is ſtrange, are not the Church of Edinburgh, and the Church of Aberdene, Churches. Again if it be a fault to gather Churches out of Churches, ſhall it be no fault to gather Churches out of a Church majus & minus non variant ſpeciem. Ay, 'tis a legall Nationall Church he meaneth, ſuch as the Jewiſh, ſuch a Church is aboliſhed, therefore 'tis no fault, yea we ought to gather, &c. For Anſwer. We may conſider a Nationall or Provinciall Church of a threefold ſort and notion. 1. Wherein all of the Nation are bound to a publick and ſolemn typicall ſervice and Worſhip to be performed in one place choſen by God, under the inſpection of one Viſible Paſtor or Prieſt who in Worſhip and Sacrifices doth hold forth and repreſent the whole People of the Nation. 2. Such a Nationall and Provinciall Church, in which many particular Churches are united and ſubjected unto one Church (as they call it, Mother or Cathedrall Church) and depend upon a Viſible Paſtor; who is Paſtor and Ruler of all other Paſtors and particular Churches in the Nation or Province; And wherein the Inferiour Churches enjoy Divine Ordinances and Eccleſiaſticall power and juriſdiction, of that Mother and Cathedrall Church or that Provinciall or Nationall Paſtor. 3. Such a Nationall Church wherein many particular Churches are joyned and united together under one Viſible Church-Government) wherein all are equally and collaterally concerned; and have equall intereſt for the uſe and exerciſe of all theſe Ordinances, which are neceſſary to the Viſible Miniſteriall Government of theſe Churches, and mutuall Eccleſiaſticall fellowſhip in it, and edification and preſervation by it. Now a Nationall Church in the ſecond notion is not, nor ever was an Ordinance of God, but a meer invention of men and Antichriſtian tyrannie, overthrowing the power granted by GOD to the Churches, and Paſtors. A nationall Church of the firſt notion and ſenſe was indeed an Ordinance of God. Such were the Jews, but inſtituted and to continue for a definite time, viz. untill the fulneſſe of time ſhould come, and then it was aboliſhed and evaniſhed: And a Church Nationall in this ſenſe was legall. But a Nationall Church in the third ſenſe is not a legall or typicall Church and Ordinance: But moralis & perpetui juris. Such was the Jewiſh under the Old Teſtament in point of Government and Eccleſiaſtick Diſcipline. They were many particular Churches, and Synagogues, …hich did in diverſe places celebrat the Morall Worſhip of God, and the exerciſes of Doctrine, Diſcipline and Church-Government, Acts 15. 21. Acts 13. 15, 16. Luke 21. 12. John 12. 42. All which were joyned and united under one Nationall Viſible Eccleſiaſtick Government. This Viſible Church-ſhip (ſo to ſpeak) of the Church of the Jews, as it was not legall (I mean ceremonially) nor typicall; ſo neither was it ever aboliſhed. Let Mr. Lookier ſhew me a Text in the whole New Teſtament importing an abrogation of it; Nay, we truſt through the Lords grace, ere we come to an end, to give evidence from the Word of God that there is a Church Viſible under the New Teſtament of a larger extent and bounds (I mean in point of Government) then a Province or Nation, even a Viſible Church Univerſall. Therefore I conclude that we maintaining a Nationall Church in no other ſenſe then this, which is ſtill warranted and allowed in the New Teſtament, it is nothing elſe but groſſe Separatiſme to gather Churches out of Churches upon this account, becauſe they are united into one Nationall Church in this ſenſe. As to that alledged by Mr. Lockier of gathering Churches out of that one Church of the Jews which he would confirm by Gal. 1. 22. I Anſ. The alledgeance is groſſely impertinent; for why? We are now upon the practice of gathering and conſtituting Churches in a new Viſible Church-ſtate, of perſons withdrawn from Churches wherein is the ſound Doctrine of the faith of Chriſt and pure Sacraments according to their inſtitution (ſuch as the moſt judicious and Godly amongſt the Independent Brethren themſelves confeſſe to be true Churches) upon this account, becauſe they are united into one Nationall Church in point of Government. But now will Mr. Lockier ſay, that the Chriſtian Churches of the Jews were gathered out of the Jews, upon this account, becauſe they were a Nationall Church in this ſenſe? He cannot upon any warrand in the world. The ground of their gathering out from the reſt of the Jews, was becauſe the reſt would not beleeve Jeſus to be the Meſſiah, nor imbrace him as their Saviour: But would ſtill adhere to their ceremoniall Worſhip, Sacrifices and Prieſthood, and would be ſaved by their own righteouſneſſe, blaſpheming Chriſt and his Doctrine.
section 4 The ſecond objection he propoundet… to himſelf is this. Thoſe men are full of Hereſies and dangerous opinions that follow this way, many monſters came out of your Independent Churches, therefore ſurely 'tis not of God, &c. I muſt ſay again Mr. Lockier doth prudently to make choiſe of ſuch arguments againſt himſelf to anſwer, as are little to the purpoſe in hand. I think no underſtanding adverſary, would have moved this as an objection againſt his Doctrine, handled in this Lecture concerning the matter of the Viſible Church. But I think indeed, being well managed, it may be made uſe of to good purpoſe againſt their Independent Churches in point of their Government, thus, The Government that is apt to open a door to Errors, ſeemeth, cannot be of God. But ſuch is the Independent way of Church Government; Which makes every particular Congregation Independent, and ſupreme in Government, ſo that if any of them fall into Error, there is no Eccleſiaſtick Power on earth, that authoritatively can interpoſe to redreſſe▪ wherein they go wrong. And certaine it is by this occaſion, many Errours have ſprung up amongſt them that follow this way. And for this very cauſe it is, that ſo many maintainers of groſſe Errours, as Anabaptiſts, Antinomians, &c. lay hold on this way of Government, as moſt ſuitable to their deſignes, and ſerviceable for their ſafetie and indemnitie. And here I ſhall deſire Mr. Lockier to remember, how that Reverend Mr. Brightman, parallelling the Churches of Geneva, France, Low-countries, and Scotland, put the ſpeciall point of their commendation, on the nature and way of their Government, viz. Preſbyteriall, whereby they have more then any Reformed Churches, preſerved themſelves, in Unity and Truth, free of Schiſmes and Hereſies. But we will have place afterward to ſpeak of this point of Government. It ſeemeth to me very likely that M•. Lockier hath drawn in this objection in this place, namely upon a deſign againſt a Perſon, as we ſhall ſee apparent ground even now in his anſwer.
section 5 Anſw. 1. All is not true that is ſaid of Congregationall Churches, and their friends, it hath been an old wyle of the Devil—Nay, I know all is not true which is Printed of Perſons honouring and loving Churches of ſuch a conſtitution, witneſſe Maſter Edwards Gangren, nay Maſter Rutherfurds Spirituall Antichriſt, pag. 250, 251. The Lord Generall Cromwell is charged with publick ſcandall, and unſoundneſſe in the Faith, becauſe of a letter to the Parliament, then having ſet down a part of that letter out of Mr. Rutherfurd, what Hereſie (ſayeth he) is in this letter I know not, and then applyes to Maſter Rutherfurd, his conſtructing of that letter, Pſal. 56. 5. and that of Solomon, Pro. ſurely the wringing of the noſe bringeth forth blood. Then cites another ſpeach of Maſter Rutherfurds Spirit. Antich. pag. 251. (viz. to my knowledge theres not this day in England any that is a meer Independent, which maintaineth nothing but Independencie, with moſt of thoſe of New England, and doeth not hold other unſound and corrupt Tenets, &c.) and ſayeth this maketh him tremble, when he remembreth from whom it cometh; Surely there be many Independents in England to whom he is a ſtranger; And how then ſhould he dare to ſpeak of them all as he doeth? Eſpecially this makes him tremble, comparing with what Maſter Rutherfurd hath in his Epiſtle, if I lift up my hand or a bloody pen, &c. Anſw. 1. 'Tis a poor and ſory Vindication, all is not true that is ſaid, yea or Printed of Congregational Churches and of their friends. That is not the thing, you are charged with in the Objection even as formed by your ſelf, that all is true, &c. if a great part or moſt part of theſe things …e true, the charge abideth good. And true it is that more Monſters of dangerous opinions in matters of Religion have come from Independent Churches and the friends thereof, and have had their recourſe to that way of Government, within thoſe few years by paſt, then I believe has ariſen in all the Reformed Churches in Chriſtendome ſince the beginning of Reformation. As for your bringing M•. Rutherfurd upon the ſtage upon the account of that Letter, you will do well Mr. Lockier to enter into your own heart, and conſider from what deſigne and intention this hath proceeded. 'Tis very apparent, it has come from little purpoſe or intention to clear that Letter in the things charged upon it; Seeing you have not ſo much as hinted at the clearing of one animadverſion on it; But thought it enough to ſay you know not what is amiſſe in it, and to bid the world judge of it. Give me leave to ſay it of Mr. Lockier, If Generall Cromwels Souldiers defended him not better with the Sword, then you do here with your pen, it were not very ſafe for him to go to the fields. Well, I will not determine upon your intentions; But if the intention of the work of this buſineſſe, looketh not towards ſtirring up of perſecution againſt the Godly and precious ſervants of Jeſus Chriſt, I leave it to be judged of any indifferent man, conſidering the poſture of affairs in theſe Lands: But I beleeve thoſe whom the Authors words tends to irritate, will not be ſo foreward to put forth their hand, as he is to ſolicit them. The other challenge made againſt that precious man, is evidently … groſſe and palpable wreſting of his words (the fault Mr. Lockier had but in that ſame breath almoſt charged upon him without giving any evidence of it) and a very wringing of the noſe to bring forth blood. I report me to every ingenuous man. If reading Mr. Rutherfurds words as they are alledged by Mr. Lockier himſelf, he will conceive that Mr. Rutherfurd meaneth what he ſayeth of all and every Independent in England, as M. Lockier conſtructeth them: or not rather that he ſpeaketh only of all within his knowledge. And what cauſe then is there of ſuch out-crying againſt Mr. Rutherfurd for theſe words, as if they were a mater of trembling? Verily I cannot but think it a mater of trembling, to ſee a man with ſo much confidence and boldneſſe palpably miſconſtructing an honeſt mans words to make him odious.
section 6 He Anſw. 3. That there is difference between a cauſe and occaſion. That we walk in a fundamentall truth, in the power of it, many take occaſion hence to ſcoffe, break forth into much wickedneſſe, is it not therefore the truth which we follow? And then he telleth us that as light hath broken forth in every age, Sathan hath laboured to darken it, and gives inſtances. As 1. That when the firſt Fathers began to lay again that great principle and fundamentall of the Trinity, to darken this, he ſet on foot Arrius hereſie.—2. When ſome of the modern Divines laid that great fundamentall point of Juſtification by faith in Chriſt, to darken this he conjured up the Anabaptiſts in Germany, which denyed proprietie, Magiſtracie; all which is good; and then addeth, now when God hath made another acceſſion of light, reſpecting the roofe and upper part of the houſe (the Independent way of conſtitution and Government of Churches) what ſtirres, fogs, miſts hath he raiſed? Is all this therefore darkneſſe, droſſe?—I think things about which the Devil maketh ſuch adoe, may rather be thought to have ſomething in them, rather then to conclude they have nothing of God within them; becauſe the Devil doth not uſually ſet againſt his own: Doth not divide againſt the Devil. When this New Heaven, as the Prophet calleth it, this new order was firſt ſet up at Jeruſalem, what bloody ſtirres made it there? When firſt at Antioch what work made it there? No ſmall diſſention, Acts 15. 2. and yet the mind of God. Anſw. 1. Much miſtaking hes been diſcovered already in this Lecture of Mr. Lockiers, but in no one paſſage hath he worſe acquyted himſelf then in this we have now in hand. 1. True, it is no good Argument or prejudice either, againſt a Tenet or point of Doctrine that many take occaſion thence to ſcoffe and break forth into much wickedeeſſe: But this is not to the purpoſe in hand. Our alledgeance is that the Independent way of Church-Government is ſuch in the nature of it as giveth occaſion to men to run freely without controlement into errours, and is a kinde of ſhelter, for ſuch as holds and maintains errours, to run to, as experience proveth; and this, ſure, if it be not an intrinſick Argument yet it is a ſtrong preſumption againſt a Tenet, that it is not of God, the like cannot be ſaid of the Preſbyterian way. 2. As to the two inſtances brought in. They are as impertinent as the former generall; For neither by the Doctrine of the Trinity was occaſion given any wayes to the Arian hereſie. But the Devill raiſed up Arius and his hereſie, to oppoſe and darken that fundamentall point of Chriſtianity. Nor was there, by the Doctrine of Juſtification cleared by theſe modern fathers, occaſion given to the ſtirres of Anabaptiſts: But theſe were raiſed by the Devill in oppoſition againſt that and other points of Religion then cleared. I humbly conceive it agrees not well with Hiſtorie to ſay that upon the fathers beginning again to lay that principall fundamentall of the Trinity; the Devill did ſet on foot the Arian hereſie: The Hiſtory of theſe times ſeemeth to ſay that the ſetting on foot the Arian hereſie gave occaſion to theſe ancient fathers, to eſtabliſh and confirm from the Word of God that principle and fundamentall of the Trinity. 3. While as Mr. Lockier (by way of application of theſe things noted on before) firſt ſayeth, now in this period of time God hath made another acceſſion of light, reſpecting the roofe and upper part of the houſe (meaning his Independent way of Church conſtitution and Government) and then ſubjoyneth by way of Queſtion, and now what ſturres, &c? Why, what now? Is all therefore—he but miſerably begs his Queſtion, viz. that his way is a new acceſſion of light. 4. Worſt of all doth he plead for his own cauſe in relation to the former Objection when as he alledgeth that it may rather be thought a way that hath ſomething of God in it, which the Devill oppoſeth, then to conclude to the contrary becauſe the Devill doth not uſually ſet againſt his own; Why? The Independent way is that which this day all the emiſſaries of Satan (I mean not meer …ndependents themſelves, many of whom I love and reverence) and almoſt all the Sect maſters of the time betakes themſelves to and hugges in their arms. And the Presbyterian way is that which all the errours and hereſies of the time oppoſeth, looketh upon as the great eye-ſore and hateth cane pejus & angue. 5. 'Tis ſomewhat more then inconſiderat contempt of his hearers and readers, when he will have them beleeve; that it was the ſetting up of his Independent Church order at Jeruſalem and Antioch that was the mater and object of the bloody ſturres, and no ſmall diſſentions there. Ah Mr. Lockier! it was another mater, upon which theſe things were raiſed, then who ſhould be members of the Viſible Church, or what form of externall Government, ſhould be followed, 'twas the Preaching of Juſtification and ſalvation through faith in Jeſus Chriſt, without the works of the Law.
section 7 The 3. Object. Mr. Lockier meeteth with, till Independency, no ſuch ſharp and bloody ſtirres and diſſentions. Where did you read this brought as an Argument againſt your Doctrine of Church-members? Will any body ſay, that theſe impertinencies were brought on the ſtage for any other end; but to catch occaſion to vent ſplen againſt perſons of men; for what elſe is it that followeth by way of Anſwer to this.
section 8 1. Presbyterians began firſt to draw the ſword, and their bitterneſſe and baſeneſſe hath hightned it to that, to which otherwiſe in likelihood, it would not have come: The two latter Summers Wars, have been the ſharpeſt, I know they will ſay that they have felt. And truly whether their froward ſpirit did not principally raiſe theſe ſtorms, I leave themſelves to judge. They converted ſo many Malignants into Presbyterians, & e contra, that if God had not been more gracious, then they ingenuous, they had undone themſelves and others too.
Anſw. To this impertinent diſcourſe in the generall, if I ſhall ſay, that it is nothing elſe, but an iſſue of carnall bitterneſſe, I think no ingenuous indifferent man, will blame me or think I ſay too much. For, 1. True, ſuppoſe Preſbyterians began firſt to draw the ſword, (which is falſe, they were forced to it by others drawing it) but was it not for their juſt defence in vindication and maintainance of the Truth of Jeſus Chriſt, and of their juſt liberty againſt oppreſſion, Prelaticall violence, and arbitrary Government? And muſt this be charged upon them, as Mr. Lockier doth here, as a crime? Tell me Mr. Lockier, what condition were you in and would been in to this day, in all humane appearance, had not Presbyterians begun to draw the ſword in that quarrell? Tell me what was the means under God that procured liberty for the ſitting down of a free Parliament in England, 1640? Belike you think it was a crime, that you got not leave to crouch under the burden, and Religion, and Liberties were not ſuffered, for Presbyterians, to ly ſtill under oppreſſion and uſurpation. I believe the wiſeſt and moſt ingenuous, and thoſe that are moſt eminent amongſt them, that now are in power amongſt you and in theſe Lands, will not approve you in their judgement, for this challenge againſt us; And unleſſe I be miſinformed when they were come to this hight of prevalency, they are now in, and we brought to this low condition we are now continuing in, looking back, gave teſtimony of their acknowledgement, that our beginning to draw the ſword, did put the ſword in their hand, tho it was never our purpoſe to put it in their hand, for the effect, for which at laſt they have made uſe of it. 2. Your attributing the hightning of the ſword to that, to which in likelyhood it would not have come, to the bitterneſſe and baſeneſſe of Presbyterians, ſeeing ye give no proof nor the leaſt evidence of it (and indeed ye could not) we muſt crave leave to ſay, it is an injury. Tell me, Sir was it bitterneſſe of ſpirit, or did it tend to the hightning of the ſword, that the Presbyterians in Scotland, having but girded their ſword to them, Anno 1639. upon promiſes of tollerable ſatisfaction, laid it aſide again preſently, ere ever they drew it, and having again in the Year 40. being forced to it, by deadly preparations, drawn it, with advantage which they might have proſecuted, yet as ſoon as they were ſecured by the treaty at …ippon, put it up into its ſheath, and retired again *Remember, Mr. Lockier, and read that ſpeech of one of your own, Jeremie Burroughs, to the cōmon Counſel of London in Guild Hall, Anno 1642. and bluſh. I ſhal here inſert but a few of his words for the Readers ſake who, may be, he… not at hand a Cople of that ſpeech. Was their ever ſuch an example ſeen ſince the world began, of a people coming out of a poor country into a fat and rich country, and having theſe opportunities to enrich themſelves, to go away ſo as they did. Their greateſt enemies they now admire at them. A people that began to riſe for their Liberties when the generality of this people here was ready, &c. I ſhall tranſcribe no more, let Mr. Lockier read what followeth and what goeth before theſe words.into their own land without any further moleſtation; and having again drawn the ſword for your aſſiſtance in great ſtraits, and upon your earneſt ſuit, Anno 1643. And having kept it in their hand for ſundry years untill all enemies were huſht and gone, as ſoon as they were deſired to return home, did it in a peaceable way. I pray you Sir, tell me, who were the men that kept up the ſword then? Whether Preſbyterians, or ſome others? 3. Indeed theſe two latter Summer-wars have been the ſharpeſt, and we cannot but ſay, that we have felt; And it becometh us well to juſtifie the Lord our God in all that he hath brought upon us, and to bear his indignation, becauſe we have ſinned againſt him, we and our Kings and our Princes and Rulers and the whole People of the Land: But if, as to the quarrell be-between us and man, frowardneſſe of ſpirit in us raiſed theſe ſtorms, tho we can juſtifie our ſelves before the world; Yet we ſhall not take upon our ſelves to be judges of it: But ſhall refer it to the Judgement of him, who is the Judge of the World; and though it ſhould be his bleſſed good pleaſure never to plead our cauſe by a ſenſible diſpenſation of providence in this world, yet we will acquieſce in the approbation of his revealed will, without quiting of our innocency, be content to ly down in the grave, and wait for his ſentence in the mater when he ſhall come to Judge the quick and the dead. And as for you Mr. Lockier, I verily think he ſhall never let you go off this world without a challenge from himſelf, for ſuch unchriſtian, uncharitable inſulting over them whom the Lord hath ſmitten, and talking to the grief of theſe whom he hath wounded. 4. As to that which followeth, they converted ſo many Malignants into Presbyterians, & e contra, &c. 1. 'Tis upon the mater but an injurious ſcoffe ſmelling rank of a mind, not purpoſed to reaſon but to reproach, a thing unbeſeeming a Miniſter of the Goſpel, eſpecially in a Pulpit. I will not pay you home in your coyne, Mr. Lockier, but I may ſay. Quamvis dignus ego eſſem hac comtumeliâ, indig…is tu qui faceres tamen—2. Tis utterly impertinent to the preceeding purpoſe he was upon. Was this the quarrell that did principally raiſe theſe ſtorms? Where is ingenuity? I beleeve we might had liberty to turn Malignants enough unto Presbyterians or any other thing we pleaſed, without any quarrell, had we been content but to have done ſome one thing, which we durſt not do becauſe of the Oath of God And now I obt…ſt you Mr. Lockier, ſay candidly if either then, when theſe ſtorms were raiſed, or now ſince we felt the dint of them, converting Malignants to be what they would, for your deſigne, be made bones of among you? I'le inſiſt no more upon this invective; but leave it ſpread before the Lord, that he may, in his time, plead with the Authors heart, for the unjuſtice and uncharitableneſſe of it. Come we now to the next Objection he meeteth with.
section 9 4. Object. Simon Magus was a man in the gall of bitterneſſe and in the bonde of iniquity, yet upon his profeſſion of faith in Chriſt he was received into Church-fellowſhip: Therefore meer profeſſion is ſufficient to this ſtate, and no more to be looked after, de jure, niſi ex abundanti: Hitherto Mr. Lockier has been pleaſed to repreſent his adverſaries as impertinent objecting prejudices againſt perſons, and not reaſoning againſt his opinion, he knoweth himſelf for what end: Now at laſt he vouchſafes them the credit, of ſaying ſome little thing, a word or two, in cauſâ. As to the former now ſet down. 1. He wrongs us in forming the concluſion or conſequent: 'Tis not any meer profeſſion whatſ…ever we allow as ſufficient to this ſtate, admiſſion unto Church-fellowſhip, ſome may profeſſe mockingly, hiſtrionically, or, to diſcerning, on purpoſe to deceive and ſubvert the Church, as theſe, Gal. 2. 4. Such profeſſion we allow not; but a ſerious ſober profeſſion, ſuch as we deſcribed before ſtating the Queſtion. 2. We give him the antecedent ſomewhat more conſtringent thus. Simon Magus having been even now a vile ſorcerer, bewitching people with his ſorceries, and ſacrilegiouſly uſurping the honour of God, upon profeſſion of faith in a ſober ſeriouſneſſe, was by Philip baptized and received into Church-fellowſhip, without paſſing any tryall, if that profeſſion of his proceeded, o… judgement, that it did proceed, ſo far as men could diſcern from true ſaving grace and faith in the heart. That his profeſſion of faith was ſerious and ſober, and appeared ſo, is evident in the Text; For he was brought to it by conviction to aſtoniſhme… and wondering at the miracles that were done: And the Text ſpeaks not of any intended purpoſe of deceiving in his taking up that profeſſion. But that Philip tryed and examined his profeſſion, if it did proceed from a true ſaving work of Regeneration in the heart, or that judgement was paſſed upon him as one truely regenerat, ſo far as men can diſcern, the Text ſayeth not this, nor any thing to that purpoſe. Now let's ſee what Mr. Lockier replyeth.
section 10 Surely (ſaith he) it was not ſhews but ſubſtance that was lookt at, and conceived indeed to be in this man, ſo far as man can judg (i.) of a tree by his fruit: for de occultis non judicat Eccleſia. There were ſurely outward ſignes of repentance in this man, & ſuch as the Apoſtle Peter, who received him unto fellowſhip, was ſatisfied with. Anſ 1. Here is a palpable groſſe eſcape committed by the Author, when he attributeth Simons receiving into Church-fellowſhip to Peter: for clear it is, that Simon was received in Church-fellowſhip by Philip and continued with him therein, ſome ſpace ere Peter and John came down to Samaria, Acts 8. 13, 14. whether the Author has committed this eſcape of inanimadvertencie, or of purpoſe, I will not peremptorily determine; But the latte… ſeemeth moſt probable, that he might have the fairer occaſion to bring in Peters words, Acts 2. 28. to confirm his Aſſertion concerning Simons qualification in relation to his admiſſion into Church-fellowſhip, of which place anone. 2. But whether Peter or Philip received him, that there were ſuch outward ſigns of repentance in this man, that as far as men can judge of a tree by its fruit, he was conceived, poſitively to be a regenerate and a true ſavingly believer, and that upon ſat…faction in this, it was, that he was received into Church-fellowſhip, how will the Author inſtruct & prove this?
section 11 Firſt, ſaith he, what Peter required at the hands of thoſe, Acts 2. 38. Repent and be baptized every one of you, in the name of Jeſus Chriſt, for the remiſſion of ſins, &c. he would, did follow the ſame rule of Chriſt which he had received and delivered to others, and therefore required as much at the …ands of Simon; If he would not diſpenſe with this rule …ith none of thoſe great number (—) there is no reaſon to think he durſt exact leſſe of this man, to be ſatisfied in him, eſpecially …earing what a creature he had been. Anſw. Beſides the continued eſcape of attributing, Simons receiving into the Church, to Peter (whereupon yet much of the weight of this reaſon dependeth) here is anothe… great miſtake upon the mater, which is the principall ground: and being diſcovered, the whole inference evaniſheth. Mr. Lockier ſuppoſeth that the Apoſtle Peter in theſe words (Repent and be baptized every one of you for the remiſſion of ſins) is ſpeaking unto theſe people and preſcribing a rule to them fot qualification, in relation to ſtating them in outward viſible Church-fellowſhip: when as it is another matter in relation to which he is ſpeaking and preſcribing a direction for, viz. how they might find pardon of their fearfull ſin of crucifying the Lord of glory, be reconciled to God, and ſaved from the wrath to come: This is evident as the noon day to any that will look upon the context. For this rule and direction of the Apoſtles, is in order to that which at that time was preſſing the ſouls of theſe he ſpeaketh to, and to anſwer the queſtion they propounded out of the anguiſh of their ſpirits. Now clear it is, that the mater that preſſed them was their conviction of their horrid ſin of rejecting and crucifying Chriſt: and their danger of the dreadfull wrath of God, and the queſtion they propounded, What ſhall we do? was not about ſtating in viſible Church-memberſhip: but how they might be freed of that guiltineſſe, and ſaved from the wrath of God: This is it that the Apoſtles rule and direction relateth to: and therefore 'tis more then evidences of true repentance and faith, ſo far as men can judge, even true repentance and faith in veritate rei ſeu exiſtentiae, that he requireth of them. This rule in relation to this end, he had indeed received from Chriſt: and neither could he, nor can any other diſpenſe with it, or exact leſſe from any in relation to that end: But all is nothing to Mr. Lockiers purpoſe, that Peter received from the Lord, or followed in the point of admitting into the outward fellowſhip of the viſible Church, ſuch a rule as requireth either true repentance and faith in reality of inexiſt…ce, or convincing evidences thereof, ſo far as men can judg, as the neceſſary qualification in foro exteriori Eccleſiae, and as the ground whereupon only the Church may admit perſons into externall Church communion: this the Text ſaith not, nor any other that he can produce from Scripture.
section 12 Next the Author goeth about to prove that Simon Magus did give ſuch outward appearance, of reall inward grace, that the Apoſtle thought him really gracious, a true and reall Saint. 1. By what is ſaid of him in the Text. 2. By the conſent of the Learned Interpreters. For the former, 'Tis ſaid (ſaith he) that when he was baptized he continued with Philip foreign, and here is is much inſiſting upon the ſignification of the Originall word, that it ſignifieth, to be alwayes preſent, to endure, to be aſſiduous; that it is attributed to hunting dogs, that will not ceaſe following the game till they have got it; that it ſignifieth to perſevere with ſtrength, Acts 6. 4. Rom. 13. 6. and then upon all this concludes. Thus, no doubt, was Simon very diligent and full of care and circumſpection, to carry it ſo in all things that he might carry it with all beholders equally to the Apoſtles themſelves, that he might be ſtill as high in every ones opinion, even in the opinion of the Apoſtles themſelves, as he was in the opinion of the blinded and deluded people. Anſ. 1. Mr. Lockier ſuppoſeth that Simons continuing with Philip, which is ſpoken of in the Text, was antecedent to his receiving unto the fellowſhip of the Church, and the ground upon conſideration of which he was received: But let him ſhew me in the Text volam au… veſtigium, of Peters admitting him unto the fellowſhip of the Church, after, and upon conſideration of this. Nay, it is not unworthy the obſervation, that Mr. Lockier in all this diſcourſe upon Simon Magus, doth not ſo much as once point his Reader to the Chapter where the ſtory lyeth, by his cuſtome in making uſe of other Paſſages, which makes me apprehend, he ſaw that the Reader turni…g over to it, would eaſily ſeen the weakneſſe of his diſcourſe by the conte… of the words. Saith not the Text it ſelf, that when he was baptized foreign i. e. after he was baptized and ſo after he was received into the Church, he continued with Philip? And ſo what ever may be imported by this continuing, let it be never ſo much evidence of inward grace, it is nihil ad rhombum, nothing to the purpoſe in hand: For we are ſpeaking now of what was found in him before, and in relation to his receiving. If Mr. Lockier ſhall ſay, that he was not received into the Church fellowſhip, when baptized, or by baptiſme: I repone, firſt, Then he muſt grant that … was required in adultis, for baptizing them, then for admitting them to Viſible Church fellowſhip. 2. Then it muſt follow that perſons then were firſt baptized, and then tryed a while further ere they were admitted Viſible Church members; let me ſee either precept or practice for this in all the Word o… God, let Mr. Lockier or any for him ſhew me in Scripture one baptized and not hoc ipſo, made a member of the Viſible Church. 2. That his continuing with Philip (whether antecedent or conſequent to his admiſſion) is but a poor ground to prove what Mr. Lockier alledgeth it for, viz. that Simon had ſuch outward appearance of real inward grace, that ſo far as man could judge he ſeemed a true and reall Saint. I pray what is ſaid? foreign i. e. he conſtantly followed and waited on Philip, (this is all that the word i…ports when joyned to a name of a perſon*foreign eſt ab alicujus latere non diſcedere, ſed aſſiduum comitem praeſta re. Conſtantin. in lex Graec. Lat., Mr. Lockiers further criticiſme upon the word is to little purpoſe) and that he was aſtoniſhed at the miracles and ſignes that were done. That which Mr. Lockier alledgeth that no doubt Simon Magus was very diligent and full of care and circumſpection to carry it ſo in all things, &c. is no doubt a confident aſſertion without bottom in the Text; and yet is this evidence enough that a man is a true and reall Saint as far as men can judge? I wonder how a judicious man, before judicious men, can aſſert ſuch a thing. I confeſſe this cariage of Simons was ground to repute him not a groſſe hypocrite, a diſſembler▪ and a mock-profeſſor: But it can be a ground of no further. I find indeed ſundry of the Interpreters ſaying that Simon would have been equall in reputation to the Apoſtles themſelves. But they ſpeak not of this, as his deſigne in his continuing with Philip, as the Author miſtakes (for that was not a ſufficiently …pparent mean to obtain that reputation) but as his deſigne in ſeeking to have the power of beſtowing the Holy Ghoſt for his money, which was the very diſcovery of his rottenneſſe; ſo far was it from being any part of diligence, carefulneſſe and circumſpection, to carry it ſo in all things▪ &c.
section 13 For conſent of the Learned Interpreters, he citeth ſome words, of Piſc. Engliſh annot. Junius & Premellius, Pellicannus, Beza. And then tells, that he addeth all theſe teſtimonies for the Learneds ſake that they may ſee and know that Simon he caried the mater that he ſeemed another man then a meer profeſſor, otherwiſe the Apoſtles had not received him: And when thus his hypocriſie did appear, the Apoſtles rejected him as one not in Chriſt, and as one wh… had no ſhare in reall grace, and upon that ground rejected communion with ſuch an hypocri… that all elſe might know what they had to do, namely, to follow that rule of the Apoſtle, 2 Tim. 3. 9. Having a forme of godlineſſe, but denying the power thereof, from ſuch turn away. Which place (ſaith he) ſhewes plainly, that it was the power, and not the Proſeſſion, and not the forme that was looked, and is to be looked at, in the admiſſion of members of the Viſible Church. Anſw. I wonder how the Author could ſo contemn the Learned who might read him, as to ſay that for their ſakes he had added theſe teſtimonies cited by him, that they may ſee and know that Simon carried the mater ſo, that he ſeemed another man then a meer Profeſſour, i. e. as he meaneth a true and reall Saint; had he been pleaſed but to Engliſh theſe teſtimonies cited by him (as it was his prudence to let them ly under the Latine vail) the very unlearned, who had common ſenſe, would evidently have ſeen and known them to import no ſuch thing. For this I appeal to the judgement of all that underſtand Latine, and will be pleaſed to read them: For I think it not worth the while to tranſlate and inſert them here; the moſt that any of them amounteth to, is that which the word eſted from the Engliſh annot. hath, that he made outward profeſſion of faith and converſion. Might he not done this much, and yet not carried it ſo in all things, as to give ground poſitively to repute him, as far as men could judge to be a true and real Saint? Will Mr. Lockier acknowledge that a man hath ſaid enough of another, for that end, when he ſaith no more of him but this, he was ſo convinced by miracles, as to profeſſe faith and converſion? Nay, he'll ſay, its the power of Godlineſſe, not profeſſion, that's to be looked at. 2. That when Simons hypocriſie did thus appear, the Apoſtle did abominat the impiety of his deed, diſcover and bear in upon him the perverſeneſſe of his heart, and his miſerable eſtate, and denunce the tem…le deſerved Judgement of God againſt him, is clear in the Text: But that he did reject him from outward communion of the Vi…ble Church, I ſee it not. Nay, what ever became of him afterward (about it Writers are of different judgement, ſee Calv. in loc.) there appears to be ſome grounds in the Text to think the contrary, viz. theſe. 1. That Peter with his ſevere objurgation and denunciation, joynes a ſerious exhortation to Repentance and Prayer, with an inſinuation of ſome hope of merciemercy, v. 2… ▪ 2. That the Hiſtorian has regiſtrate that Simon did not ſhew himſelf obſtinate, but accepting of the words of Peter, and touched with the terrour of the threatned Judgement, ſought the help of the Apoſtles Prayers to eſcape it. 3. But ſuppoſing that Peter did at this time Excommunicate him; yet that it was done upon this account ſimply, that he was not in Chriſt, that he had no ſhare in reall grace, has no footing in the Text; we will find a further mater …d to his charge, an atrocious crime of ſeeking to buy the gift of the Holy Ghoſt with money. Nay, that for non▪regeneration ſimply a man ſhould be Excommunicat, is a wild aſſertion unheard of in the Word of God, which enjoyneth this cenſure only in the caſe of obſtinacy and contumacious contempt of the Diſcipline of the Church, or at fartheſt in caſe of an atrocious ſcandall, which caſe yet is doubtfull, as may appear in the debates of Learned Men about the Excommunication of the inceſtuous Corinthian. 4. The place, 2 Tim. 3. 5. is moſt contrary to the ſcope and purpoſe of the context, alledged as a rule, holding forth, that all profeſſours not having true grace of Regeneration or not giving evidences thereof, ſo far as men can diſcern and judge, are for that to be caſten out of the communion of the Viſible Church. It is clear as noo…-day, that the Apoſtle by the men, of whom he ſaith, they have a form of godlineſſe, means not every profeſſour unregenerate, or not giving evidences convincing ſo far as men can judge of Regeneration; but perſons, openly and groſſely in their converſation ſcandalous, flagitious, blaſphemous, &c. As is evident both by the words going before and following.
section 14 Th… …aſt Object. he laboureth to anſwer, the Apoſtle, 2 Tim. 2. 20. But in a great houſe there are not only veſſels of Gold and of Silver, but alſo of Wood and of Earth; and ſome to honour and ſome to diſhonour, by houſe he meaneth Viſible Church; therefore the Viſible Church may conſiſt of good …d bad. Mr. Lockier propounds Arguments againſt his Tenent as himſelf pleaſeth, in the moſt …oft way for his own advantage. We hope in the next Section to give an Argume… from this and other like deſcriptions of the Viſible Church formed ſomewhat more pungent now we ſhall only conſider what he anſw…eth unto it as laid down by himſelf. His Anſwers are two.
section 15 Firſt, That there may be bad men in a Church hath not been denyed; becauſe Hypocrites may delude the judgement of the beſt men; but he (the Apoſtle) ſaith not that theſe veſſels of earth are there allowedly; but they are there to diſhonour: That is, being creept in where they ſhould not be, they are to be caſt out of the Church as diſhonourable, as indeed was Hymeneus and Philetus, of whom and of one Alexander ſee what the Apoſtle ſayeth, 1 Tim. 1. 20. which ſhews, that when men put away that which they ſeem to have, faith coupled with a good conſcience; they are to be put away to their maſter as veſſels of diſhonour appointed for wrath. Anſw, 1. Paſſing now that expreſſion that bad men are not in the Church allowedlie, having pondered before in what ſenſe it may be granted, and in what not: paſſing this; what a wilde and forced Interpretation is that veſſels to diſhonour, i. e. that are to be caſt out of the Church by Eccleſiaſtick cenſure, Excommunication? Who ever dreamed of the like before? Clear it is, that the Apoſtle in the back or outſide of the compariſon by being to honour, means appointed and imployed to more honeſt and honourable uſes in an houſe. And by to diſhonour, meaneth not caſting out of the houſe (to Interprete him ſo were ridiculous) but to be appointed and imployed to more baſe and fordid uſes: And in the kirnell or application of the ſimili…ude, under the name of veſſels to honour is meaned the elect of God, ſanctified and prepared to every good work, and ordained …o glory, as is clear by the verſe going before, and the verſe following. And ſo by veſſels to diſhonour, are meant caſt-awayes, whom, being in the Viſible Church, God makes uſe of for ſuch ends as he pleaſeth, and in end will ſeparate them to that wrath and confuſion they are fitted for, whether ever here-away they break out into ſuch ſcandals as ſhall make them to be caſten out of the Viſible Church, or they continue in the heap or in the houſe to their ending day. That this is the genuine meaning of the words I think no intelligent man will deny. 2. It is a falſe ſuppoſition which Mr. Lockier inſinuateth, that bad men in the Church, i. e. men void of true grace and unregenerat, as and becauſ… ſuch, are to be caſt out of the commu…on of the Viſible Church, the Scripture allow…h no caſting out of men but becauſe they are ſc…dalous and contum…ous, or at leaſt atrociouſly ſcandalous (which latter yet as we ſaid before is queſtionable) and it alloweth men that are ſuch to be caſten out though they be haply in ſtate, truely regenerat and juſtified. And therefore, 3. It is a moſt inconſiderat word of the Authors, where expreſſing the nature of Excommunication, he …ayeth they are to be put away to their maſter as veſſels of diſhonour, and appointed unto wrath, i. e. in plain words, as reprobates ordained to eternall damnation. This is very different from Pauls theologie, 1 Cor. 5. 5. to deliver unto Satan for the deſtruction of the fleſh, that the ſpirit may be ſaved in the day of the Lord Jeſus. Far be it from me and from the Churches of Chriſt to uſe Excommunication upon ſuch a conſideration of a perſon and for ſuch an end as Mr. Lockier, determines here, which in effect makes the Church in the ſentence of Excommunication, to determine, concerning mens reprobation, a ſecret which God hath keped up to himſelf, and is altogether hid unto, and undiſcernable by men except in the caſe of ſinning againſt the Holy Ghoſt, which yet is hard for any to determine upon. 4. The Excommunication and caſting out of Hymeneus, Philetus and Alexander, is impertinently alledged to the purpoſe, viz. that all men that are not true Saints, or have not true grace (ſo muſt Mr. Lockier's bad men be underſtood) are upon this account to be caſt out of the Church; theſe were not ſuch men ſimply, but taught abominable hereſies, denyall of the Reſurrection, perverſe ſeducers of people from the faith, blaſphemers, and for theſe they were caſt out.2 Tim. 2. 18 2 Tim. 1. ult.
section 16 His next Anſwer is this: Moreover by this great houſe, he (Paul) Firſt, means the Church of the Epheſians, for whoſe ſake Paul wrot to Timothy, and what they were according to the judgement of the Apoſtle who wrot to them ye have heard. Anſw. We take what the Author ſaith, that this great houſe is the Church of the Epheſians, and it may well be ſo taken, as applicable to the Church of Epheſus, or any other Church; then I ſay he hath furniſhed a weapon againſt himſelf, for if this houſe be the Church of the Epheſians to which …he Apoſtle wrot, then when as writing to them he …lled them Saints, he meaneth not that …f all and every one of them, but ſpake it … the body indefinitely and confuſedly, why? Should that b… underſtood univerſally, it ſhould be a flat contradiction to what he ſaith here, that the Church of the Epheſians is a great houſe, in which there are ſome veſſels to diſhonour, non-ſaints, yea very reprobates, appointed to wrath. It will not ſalve the mater to ſay, as Mr. Lockier inſinuateth, that the Apoſtle in writing to the Epheſians, ſpeaketh of what they were, in his judgement: For Paul is ſpeaking his judgement here too: Now how can theſe two judgements conſiſt in one man. To my judgement, all and every one of the Church of Epheſus are reall Saints, ſealed as his, and yet I pronounce there are in the Church of Epheſus ſome reall un-ſaints, very reprobates. Indeed if the Apoſtle here had not determined poſitively and purè. But by way of ſuſpence and modaliter, in this houſe, the Church of Epheſus, may be, or poſſibly there are ſome veſſels of diſhonour, there would not be ſuch repugnancie or incompatibilitie of this with the former. But he ſpeaks abſolutely and poſitively, there are ſome veſſels to diſhonour.