A Little Stone Found to be Counterfeit, Treatise · Part 1 · Section 5
SECTION V. Examination of Mr. Lockyers proofe of his Doctrine by induction.
section 1 BƲt (ſaith he) this is not the way which I moſt mind to make probation by, of this point: I would prove it by induction, it ſeemeth then, that he hes not had ſuch confidence in that former way of probation, by teſtimonies alledged to ſpeak the point in theſi: And I humbly leave it to the judicious and impartiall Reader to judge, by what hath been ſaid in anſwer to theſe paſſages, if it be not made clearer that he had little ground of confidence in them for proof of his point, and comes now to that way of probation, wherein it ſeemeth he conceiveth more ſtrength to ly.
section 2 The Churches of the Romanes, Corinthians, Epheſians, Galatians, Colloſſians, Theſſalonians, of the Jews which are mentioned by Peter, Iames, and the Author to the Hebrews, and in the Acts, were all thus conſtitute of truely Godly, ſo far as a Godly man can make judgement of one like himſelf, Ergo. if theſe be denyed as preſidents, then I would aske our Brethren of the Presbytery by what rule they walk? But if theſe be conſidered as preſidents, I have only to ſhew that theſe Churches did all thus conſtitute, though I think they did not long keep and maintain this pure conſtitution, for which they bore their judgement, & yet bear. Anſ. Where did Mr. Lockier read, that the judgement comed and yet lying upon theſe Churches, came upon them for their admitting and permitting to be in their viſible ſociety ſuch as were not true converts, ſuch as God the ſearcher of the hearts of all men can bear witneſſe of as indeed ſealed for his by his Holy Spirit, as far as men truely converted and very ſpirituall can diſcern and judge? We find indeed laid to ſome of their charge that they ſuffered ſcandalous perſons, broatchers of errors, and ſeducers of others into their errors, (ſuch, I mean, maintainers of errors, I trow he and others of his way are not averſe from receiving and ſuffering into their Independent Churches) and I doubt not but for this among other cauſes, judgement came upon them: But that ever that which he ſaith was laid to t…eir charge, or that the judgement of God came upon them for that cauſe, we cannot believe his aſſertion; we require it to be inſtanced by proofe: but to the purpoſe; he ſuppoſeth that beſide theſe particular Churches inſtanced, and what is ſaid of them in the Epiſtles written to them, there can be no where in Scripture found any thing holden forth as a rule by which we may walk in the conſtitution of the viſible Church as to the mater or members t…ereof. So doth his Queſtion (then I would aske our Brethren by what rule they walk) import: But we truſt ere we have done, to find a rule elſe-where; yet we ſhall not deny nor refuſe theſe Churches as preſidents in this buſineſſe, in whatſoever can be made clear to have been their practice in this mater, I mean, the notion and conſideration under which perſons were admitted unto, and reckoned in their externall Church-fellowſhip. Come we then to conſider the antecedent of this Argument, or what is affirmed in his induction of theſe Churches. Firſt in the generall, and then his proof thereof particularly. The aſſertion of them all in generall is, that all of them were conſtitute of perſons truely Godly ſo far as Godly men could make judgement. Anſ. 1. Mr. Lockier if he would have made the attributum of this induction anſwerable to his concluſion intended, he ſhould have ſaid they were conſtitute of perſons all and every one of them truely Godly, and none elſe. But he ſpeaks only indefinitely, which might be granted: But let us take him to mean ſo; this aſſertion as it lyeth, may be granted in ſome ſenſe which it may carry, and never a whit advantage redound thereby to his Doctrine; for it may carry this ſenſe, that theſe Churches were made up, or did conſiſt of perſons all of them truely mat…ially Godly de facto, and quoad eventum; or it may carry this ſenſe, that they were conſtitute of perſons all truly godly, formally conſidered as ſuch, in their taking them into the conſtitution and external ſociety of them. Now in the firſt ſenſe it might be granted (as I ſuppoſe ſome Congregation or Congregations may be ſuch eventually, that all the members may be truely godly) & yet no advantage come thereby to his Tenet, unleſſe he could prove that the enumeration which he makes is a perfect enumeration of all the particular Churches in Scripture (which he cannot, becauſe it is clearly contrary to truth, and therefore his induction is imperfect) Yea and this alſo, that there is no other Paſſage of Scripture, that holds forth a rule or warrand of any larger latitude touching admitting of members into the fellowſhip of the Viſible Church then what is ſaid of theſe Churches. He muſt prove then the aſſertion in the latter ſenſe, viz. that theſe Churches were conſtitute of perſons all truely godly as far, &c. formally conſidered as ſuch, and under no other conſideration, in their in-taking and being reckoned members in their outward viſible ſocietie: If he could prove this of any one of them we ſhould go over to his ſide of the controverſie: But now ſee how he proveth this, nay all that is brought or can be brought by him, is only this, that the Apoſtle Writing to theſe Churches, calleth them ſaints, beleevers, ſanctified in Chriſt Ieſus, and the like, which ſhould we grant to mean inward true grace of regeneration, and to be ſpoken not of the whole body collectively and confuſe, only giving the denomination of the whole from the better part; but diſtributively of all and every one of them; yet nothing elſe could neceſſarily be concluded from this, but that they were ſuch de facto and quo ad eventum, and not that they were gathered and received into the externall fellowſhip of theſe Churches formally upon this and no other account: that they were ſuch reall, internall, truely regenerate ſaints. The Apoſtles in the place cited ſpeaks not, nor intimates one word concerning the order of proceeding, or account whereupon the proceeding was made in the viſible externall conſtituting and ſetting up of theſe Churches, or admitting of members into them, neither doth Mr. Lockier ſo much as once aſſay to make a proofe of this point; only after he hes cited ſome paſſages concerning the Corinthians, he ſaith, pag. 22. end, and pag. 23. begin. that theſe expreſſions ſhould import that they did conſtitute & gather together upon any other account, but as there was the true grace of God evident as far as men could judge, I cannot indeed ſee. Alas! 1. Is this to prove that which being the very main pinch of the Queſtion, to ſay no more for it, but you cannot ſee how it was not done ſo. 2. But I forbear to exaggerat this way of reaſoning. We are ſure he might ſee in Scripture how perſons were gathered and received into the fellowſhip of the Viſible Church upon another account, and truſt by the Lords aſſiſtance ere we have done to let it be ſeen by ſuch as will not ſhut their eyes upon the light of the Word. Thus we have ſaid already, doth ſufficiently diſcover the weakneſſe and nullity of the inductive Argument to the point in controverſie. And I muſt ſay, I wonder that Learned men (ſuch as I do with all reſpect, acknowledge our Independent Brethren to be) ſhould have put ſuch confidence in it.
section 3 But 2. Let's ſee if he can prove that all theſe Churches were de facto and quo ad eventum, conſtitute and made up of perſons all truely Godly ſo far as Godly and diſcerning men could make judgement, ſuch as upon tryall would give evidence of the true grace of God in them as far as men could judge. Firſt then for the Romans is cited, chap. 1. verſ. 6, 7, 8, 9. where they are written to by Paul (who ſurely was able to diſcern in ſpirituall maters, and durſt not complement with perſons in things of eternall concernment) under the ſtyles of the called of Ieſus Chriſt, called Saints, beloved of God, theſe whoſe faith is ſpoken of through all the World, and the Apoſtle writes to all that are at Rome, and thanks God for them all, and made mention of them all in his prayers, Well, what hence? I cannot think (ſaith he) that a faith of ſo high eſteem with Paul, and of ſuch renown through the Chriſtian World, and the mater of ſuch ſervent Prayer ſhould mean only a temporary faith. Why? Some of theſe were ſuch as laid down their neck for Paul, Rom. 16. 4. the reſt ſurely in danger of their own necks every day by their profeſſion, living in the mouth of that Tyranne Nero, as Paul calleth him (it ſhould be Lion) or Dragon, as Iohn calls all Heathen Emperours of that place. Anſw. 1. We will not ſay it is a temporary faith he ſpeaks of, we grant it to be a ſaving perſevering faith, and for confirmation of this he might added a ſtronger ground from the Text then theſe he hath choſen, that they are all called beloved of God, and called Saints, where, as Eſtius noteth well, intelligitur vocatio non communis & externa, &c. i. e. is underſtood, not common and outward calling, but that whereby men are effectually called to faith, holineſſe, and ſalvation, which is the calling according to purpoſe and Predeſtination: But now will Mr. Lockier or any man take upon them to ſay, that Paul mean'd that all and every one in the Viſible Church of Rome, were ſuch as had not a temporary faith only, but a true ſaving faith, and ſo were all and every one ſuch as were to be undoubtedly ſaved. I doubt he will hazard upon this aſſertion: or if he will, I doubt much if he ſhall have any other to bear him company in it. May be, he will ſay, he intends not that, but this, that they were all and every one ſuch, ſo far as in his judgement he could diſcern: and he was a man very able to diſcern in ſpirituall matters, as he ſaith a little before. But, 1. This is an addition to the Text, and how will he prove that it was Pauls mind to ſpeak with ſuch a qualification? 2. He ſuppoſeth that Paul had acquaintance and experience of every one of them ſufficient to diſcern what they were, ſo doth that he ſaith import, read Paul who ſurely was able to diſcern in ſpirituall matters. But this behoved to have been by converſing with them coram; and that he could not have, it ſeemeth; *Aret Rp. 1. 7 Calvin 1 Cor. 1, 2. P. Mart. Rom. 1. 7. Calv. Gal. 1. 2 Er. Sar. cer, Eph. 1. 1 Eſtius, Rom. 1. 7. 1 Cor. 1, 2.becauſe he had not yet been at Rome to meet with every one of them there, nor is it likely that every one of them had come from Rome and met with him otherwhere, or he behoved to have it by communication by Letters from every one of them: And what ground of conjecture have we for this? I think to ſay it, would be accounted a Dream. As for report, of every one of them and their ſeverall evidences of grace, by others. 1. We have as little ground of conjecture for that, though we find that there hes been great fame of their faith in common and in generall, ver. 8. 2. Report may be a ground of charitable beliefe (I take beleef here in the generall logicall ſignification of it, as it is contradiſtinguiſhed from opinion and ſcience) but it cannot be a ground of a poſitive diſcretive judgement, ſuch as Mr. Lockier attributeth to Paul touching the Romanes faith, for it implyes a mans own perſonall experience of things. 2. We ſay the Apoſtle in theſe titles of beloved of God, Saints, Beleevers, meaneth true ſaving grace, truely exiſting, and not in the judgement of charity only: But ſpeaketh there not of all the Romanes univerſaliter & diſtributivè, as we ſay all men are ſinners, but communiter & collectivè, & confuſè, i. e. in common, collectively, and confuſedly; becauſe undoubtedly ſaving grace was amongſt them, and he could not take upon him to determine, whether moe or fewer of them were endued with it, and as it ſeems knew nothing to the contrary of any of them particularly, but they might be ſuch. Thus verily I think the Apoſtles writing to whole Churches, and calling them generally by the name of Saints, faithfull, &c. may well be underſtood; and no other thing can be demonſtrate of their meaning: Take herewith the judgement of the Learned Commentators on the place, all of which do unanimouſly determine that theſe titles of Saints, faithfull, and the like, are given by the Apoſtles to the Churches; partly in reſpect of the end of their calling, and the duty of every one in the Church, viz. that the end of their calling, and their duty is to be ſuch; and partly by a denomination taken à parte potiori, from the better part, becauſe there were true reall Saints and beleevers amongſt them. And I think it is a worthy and ſolide conſideration, which my worthy Collegue in the Miniſtry and my Reverend Superior in the Colledge I live in, hath in his due right of Presbytery, pag. 259. in anſwer to Mr. Cotton upon this ſame Queſtion and Argument, the ſtyles given to the Church of Corinth are too high to be given to hypocrites (ſuch as many of Mr. Lockiers truely godly ſo far as men can judge, may be and often are) but theſe ſtyles are not given to that Church preciſely, as Viſible, and as a profeſſing Church, but as an Inviſible, and true Church of Beleevers: He Writeth to a Viſible Church, but he doth not ſpeak of them alwayes as a Viſible Church, but as of an Inviſible when he calleth them Temples of the Holy Ghoſt, &c.
section 4 What we have ſaid ro his alledgeance concerning the Church of Rome, is applicable to what is ſaid to the moſt part of the reſt: ſo that we ſhall not inſiſt much on them. Only a word or two of ſome of them. And 1. For the Corinthians, after he hath ſet down what is ſpoken to them, chap. 1. verſ. 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. and chap. 4. 15. he ſubjoyneth perſons having ſuch grace in them, as ſhall be confirmed to the end, as keepeth them waiting to the coming of the Lord Jeſus, as are the comfortable ſeals of a faithfull Miniſtry, that all this ſhould ſignifie but an outward Profeſſion, or to ſay that this Church ſhould conſtitute, and Congregate together upon any other account, but as there was the true grace of God evident, as far as men could judge, I cannot indeed ſee. Anſw. 1. Let it be marked how in citing the place, chap. 4, 15. he maketh an addition to the Text, for in Chriſt Jeſus I have begotten you all, this all is put in as the Apoſtles word, when as in the Text there is no more but I have begotten you. This is a groſs, foule ſlip, I will not ſay it hath been done out of deſigne, may be it hes been done inconſiderately, without preſent turning over to the place; however, adding to the Word of God is a dangerous practice. 2. As for that to ſay that this Church did conſtitute and gather upon another account, &c. we have noted on it ſufficiently before. I adde now this, by what Mr. Lockier ſaith here, and indeed by the Doctrine of all the Independent Brethren of his way, in this mater of the conſtitution of the Viſible Church, it appeareth that their conception about the order of gathering the Viſible Church by the Apoſtles was this, that men being firſt turned to the Profeſſion of Chriſtian Religion, there was a tryall made of their evidences of true inward ſaving grace, and ſuch as evidences ſatisfactory of this were found in, theſe were gathered in, and the reſt caſten by, which I dare ſay is a meer fiction, of which not the leaſt veſtige can be ſhown in Scripture, and never man dreamed of untill theſe ſad times, broodie of many new fancies under the name of new lights. 3. I confeſſe perſons having ſuch grace in them as ſhall be confirmed to the end, as keeps them waiting for the coming of Chriſt, as are the comfortable ſeals of a faithfull Miniſtry, are not outward Profeſſours only, but are reall Saints and Elect, and thence I conclude, it cannot be underſtood univerſally of all and every one of the Viſible Church of Corinth. Will he ſay that all and every one were reall Saints, Elect, to be confirmed unto the end, and ſo eternally ſaved; if he ſay, yes, in Pauls judgement, ſo far as he could judge upon evidences of true grace. I ſay, 1. That is an addition to the Text, Paul ſaith ſimply he ſhall confirm you unto the end, &c. not ſo far as I can judge he ſhall confirm you. Yea, 2. It enervats the comfort held forth by the Apoſtle to them he ſpeaks to, for it imports no more upon the mater, but this, poſſibly ye may be confirmed to the end, and ſo when all is done ye may be poſſibly not confirmed to the end: (mans judgement can go no further) and is contrary to the ſtrain of all the Orthodox, writing againſt the Remonſtraints in the Article of perſeverance, who underſtand the place of Saints, and the Lords effectuall gracious preſerving them in veritate rei, and ſo make uſe of the place, and preſſe it againſt the Remonſtrants. But let Mr. Lockier rid himſelf here; if he will have Paul to ſpeak thus of all and every one of the Viſible Church of Corinth, either he muſt conceive it ſpoken only with relation to the ſtate of that Church as its firſt up-ſetting: or alſo in relation to what it was at the preſent time of the Writing of this Epiſtle: The former cannot be ſaid, becauſe its moſt evident all along that Paſſage, Chap. 1. he is ſpeaking of it as ſtill, at the time of his writing, ſtanding in that condition he expreſſeth in his words, albeit ſome of the Verbs be uſed in the preterit perfect tenſe, no man can deny this who hath any judgement. If he ſay the latter, the very Epiſtle it ſelf will confute it, wherein, to wit, ſo groſſe wickedneſſes, and impieties are diſcovered to have been amongſt them, and laid to their charge, ſchiſmes, contentious ſuits of Law, fornications, communion and fellowſhip at Idolatrous Tables, drunkenneſſe at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper, deniall of the Reſurrection. Will any man ſay, that the Apoſtle knowing ſuch things to be amongſt them, ſpeaks of all and every one of them as reall inward Saints as far as men can judge.
section 5 For the Church of the Galatians is cited, Gal. 4. 9. chap. 6. 1. the latter whereof is ſo impertinent to the purpoſe, that I wonder how it came in his minde to alledge it. The point to be proven is, that the Church of the Galat. was conſtitute of perſons all truely godly ſo far as men could judge: The Apoſtles meaning in this place is this much, if any amongſt you through infirmity or ignorance be ſurprized and fall into a fault, ſuch among you as are ſpirituall i. e. more advanced and confirmed in knowledge and piety, and more experimentally skilled in Chriſtianity, being conſcious of your own lyableneſſe to temptations, apply your ſelves to recover and reſtore ſuch an one with meekneſſe and gentleneſſe; what is this to that concluſion? If Mr. Lockier had aſſayed to make up a Syllogiſme upon it, for inferring that concluſion, he would, I no wayes doubt, have perceived the impertinency of his alledging it. Neither yet doth the former prove the point: for let that knowing of God, and their being known of God, be underſtood of reality of ſaving grace: Yet the ſpeech is but indefinite, after ye have known God, or rather are known of God. And every body knows, what an indefinite ſpeech can bear in materiâ contingente.
section 6 For the Church of Epheſus is cited, Eph. 1. 1. 13. and Acts 20. 28. 32. For the firſt citation, I mean what is ſaid in the Epiſtle, we need ſay no more then what is ſaid upon the Romanes and Corinthians: The places are all alike, and the ſame anſwer ſerveth all. Only I will ſay, I am aſtoniſhed that any man ſhould think or ſay that theſe high Heavenly bleſſings, priviledges, and graces ſpoken of by the Apoſtle to the Epheſians, as bleſſed with ſpirituall bleſſings in Heavenly places, choſen before the foundation of the World, predeſtinat to the adoption of Children, to the praiſe of the Glory of His Grace, accepted in the Beloved, having Redemption through His Blood, the forgiveneſſe of ſins, obtained the inheritance, ſealed with the Spirit of promiſe, quickned with Chriſt, raiſed up together with him to ſit in heavenly places &c. are all by the Apoſtle ſpoken of and attributed to all and every one in the viſible ſocietie of the Church of Epheſus ſo far as he could judge, wherein he himſelf clearly intimats there were ſome (and he ſpeaks according to his own knowledge) that were given to teach other Doctrine, giving heed to fables, 1 Tim. 1. 3, 4. ſome that had ſwerved aſide to vain jangling, deſiring to be. Teachers of the Law, &c. v. 6, 7. that teached otherwiſe, not conſenting to wholeſome words,—proud, knowing nothing, doting about Queſtions and Strifes of words, c. 6. 3, 4. ſome addicted to the love of Money and Covetouſneſſe, v. 9, 10. ſtriving about words to no profite, but to the ſubverting of the hearers, veſſels to diſhonour, as veſſels to honour, Reprobates and Caſt-awayes, as well as Elect, the foundation of the Lord having the ſeal of Gods Eternal Predeſtination & Fore-knowledge ſet upon them, 2 Tim. 2. 19. 20. thoſe that oppoſe themſelves and were to be brought with meekneſſe unto Repentance, and recovered out of the ſnare of Satan who had them captive at his will, v. 25, 26. ſuch as had a forme of Godlineſſe but denyed the Power thereof, Miſleaders and Miſlead, cap. 3. 6. 7. compare with v. 5. who will dare to ſay that the Apoſtle writing to a Church, and giving them all theſe high ſtiles and commendations, mentioned before; did intend them to all and every one ſeverally and diſtributively in that Church? Neither will it avail to ſay, that this Church might been ſo conſtitute at firſt, as that all the Members might been ſuch as theſe ſtiles might been given to them, as far as men could judge, though afterward many of them degenerated, and diſcovered themſelves. Unleſſe Mr. Lockier make it good, that ſuch was the ſtate of that Church in all the Members of it, at the time of the writing of this Epiſtle to the Epheſians, he alleadgeth what is ſaid in it to no effect for his purpoſe. But it is certain that the firſt Epiſtle to Timothie was written long before it, this being written long ere he came to Rome, as Interpreters agree, and that being written from Rome, and that, as moſt think, in the time of his ſecond impriſonment there, and ſo it ſeemeth but a little before the ſecond to Timothie, which was the laſt of all.
section 7 For the other citation, Acts 20. 28, 32. 1. The latter verſ. 32. any man who ſees any thing, may ſee it clearly impertinent to the purpoſe in hand. 2. To the other feed the Church of God which he hath purchaſed with his own blood, We Anſw. That by the Church bought with the blood of Ieſus Chriſt, true God, is not meant the Viſible Church, as ſuch, as if the meaning of the words were, bought with the blood of Chriſt in the judgement of charitie, or ſo far as men can judge, (which is a meer addition to the Text;) but the Inviſible Church of the Elect, really redeemed: So do all Orthodox Divines writing againſt Remonſtrants on the Article of Redemption, expound it of the Church of the Elect only, and preſſe it as an Argument againſt the Remonſtrants Univerſall Redemption, and Remonſtrants upon the contrare would have it meant of the whole Viſible Church. Mr. Lockier hath given no proof that it is ſpoken of the Viſible Church, as ſuch, but thought it enough to point us to the place, and to ſuppoſe it be as he would have it. But becauſe Reverend M. Hooker in his Survey, par. 1. c. 3. pag. 39, 40. aſſerteth the ſame interpretation of the place with Mr. Lockier, againſt my Reverend Collegue Mr. Rutherfurd, and aſſayes to give ſome reaſon for it, albeit I doubt not ere long, the Church ſhall have a ſufficient anſwer from Mr. Rutherfurd himſelf, to that and other things in the Survey: Yet I muſt crave humble leave of him to ſay ſomewhat to Mr. Hooker in this particular, ſeeing it cometh ſo far in my way, and otherwiſe, Mr. Lockier and his followers might haply ſay, I had purpoſely ſhun'd it.
section 8 The Church here (ſayeth he) whether Congregationall or Presbyteriall, muſt needs be viſible: Anſ. That is not the queſtion, nor the thing he ſhould have proven; for we ſhall confeſſe the Church here ſpoken of, and as ſpoken of in the context, muſt be viſible; but he ſhould have ſaid and proven the Church here ſpoken of, and ſaid to be bought with the blood of Chriſt muſt be the Church Viſible, and as ſuch, conſidered according to its viſible ſtate, and conſequently that the attribute of the enunciation is enunciat of all and every one in that ſtate; ſee we then if the argument he formeth maketh out this. That over whom Elders and Officers are ſet to attend to feed by Doctrine and Diſcipline, this muſt needs be a viſible Church: for unleſſe they did ſee them and know them, how could they execute cenſure upon them? but theſe, viz. over whom Elders and Officers are ſet to attend and feed, &c. are called the Church Redeemed with the Blood of God, The concluſion is ſuppreſſed but according to the terms of the premiſſes: It can be no other then this, Ergo the Church here ſpoken of muſt needs be viſible. And this we may and do grant, and yet without any prejudice, or diſadvantage, for that may well ſtand with this aſſertion, that only the Elect or the Church Inviſible are intended by that name Church, when it is ſaid there to be bought by the blood of God. For why? becauſe the Elect or Inviſible Church is viſible, i. e. perſons ſeen and obvious to the outward ſenſes, Phyſically viſible, and certainly Mr. Hooker ſpeaks of no more in his Major and the proof thereof, unleſſe they do ſee them and know them &c. the thing that he ſhould have concluded was this Ergo, they are called, redeemed by the blood of God as the viſible Church, or according to their Viſible Church ſtate; but that will not be inferred upon his premiſſes. If any man will ſay, his argument may be upon the terms taken in it, mended and urged to the point thus: Theſe over whom Officers and Elders are ſet, to attend and feed by Doctrine and Diſcipline; muſt needs be a Viſible Church; and that conſidered according to its Viſible State, and as Viſible; but theſe over whom Elders and Officers are ſet, &c. are called the Church Redeemed by the Blood of God, Ergo, theſe called the Church Redeemed, &c. muſt needs be a Church Viſible: and that as ſuch, and conſidered according to its Viſible State; Then I ſay, yet the concluſion toucheth not us for theſe that are called the Church Redeemed, may be granted to be a Church Viſible, and that conſidered as viſible, viz. in relation to ſome other adjunct of it diſtinct from that epithet contained in the ſubject of the concluſion, viz. the denomination of Redeemed by the Blood of God; and this argument as thus formed carrieth no more. But yet if one ſhall infer the concluſion thus, Ergo. theſe are called the Church Redeemed by the blood of God as a Church Viſible, or conſidered according to their Viſible Church ſtate: Then I ſay this putteth the Syllogiſme out of the wits and whole frame of it, takes the medium into the concluſion, for the minus extremum or attribute of the aſſumption (for the Syllogiſme is in the third figure) and jumbles the majus extremum and minus extremum the attribute of the Major Propoſition, and the attribute of the aſſumption together in the attribute of the concluſion, and ſo makes the Syllogiſm in whole, to conſiſt of four terms; in a word, let any man take theſe premiſes of Mr. Hookers, mend them, ſhape, and change them as he will, he ſhall never be able to infer the concluſion that ſhould be inferred to his purpoſe, that the Church Viſible is called the redeemed by the blood of God, as it is viſible, or according to its viſible ſtate.
section 9 But, ſaith he, if any man ſay, that the Elect are only there intended by that name, I anſwer, that conceit is contrary to the very ſtrain of the words and ſcope of the Text, for they muſt attend [foreign] to the whole flock: The charge puts no difference between perſon and perſon, nor moſt their care be different; nay upon this ground the Elders ſhould not know, what their care was, nor upon whom they ſhould beſtow it, for they might reply, Lord we cannot ſearch into thy ſecrets, who are Elect and Inviſible Saints, we cannot diſcern them, and therefore we cannot tell how to feed them; whereas by the current and common ſenſe of the Scriptures, taking redeemed and ſanctified as viſibly, though not really ſuch, the ſtream of the Text runneth pleaſantly without the leaſt appearance of doubt. Anſw. 1. Reverend Mr. Hooker affirmeth more then he proves well, in calling that anſwer a conceit contrary to the ſtream of the words and ſcope of the Text. His firſt Argument comes to this much; All theſe are of the Church, which is ſaid to be redeemed by the blood of God, whom the Elders and Officers are required to attend; But the Apoſtle requires them to attend all the flock without putting difference between perſon and perſon, ergo. all the flock, i. e. every one of the Viſible Church are of that Church which is ſaid to be redeemed &c. Anſ. What ever might be ſaid of his Interpretation of the flock to be the Viſible Church as Viſible, we deny the neceſſity of the Major Propoſition. The flock as it is the object of the Miniſters externall charge and adminiſtration of Ordinances, may be of a larger extent and comprehenſion, then is the ſignification of the Church as it ſtandeth under that attribute of being redeemed by the blood of God. And that you may ſee that is not my conceit, ſee it expreſly given by worthy and Learned Whittaker, in anſwer to Bellarmine proving that the Church is Viſible from this very Text, de Eccleſ. q. 2. c. 2. Reſp. ad locum. 5. particulares Eccleſiae (ſuch as was Epheſus, of which the Apoſtle is ſpeaking) Chriſti Religionem profitentes, dicuntur Eccleſia Synecdochic…s, propter ſanctos nimirum & electos, qui in iis ſunt, ſed quia Paſtores non poſſunt electos à reprobis diſcernere, itaque totum caetum paſcere, regere, curare debent, & judicium Deo relinquere; where it is evident, that this Learned Author underſtood, that that whole Congregation or flock of the Epheſians which the Paſtours are required to attend, is called that Church which is redeemed, not properly, but ſynecdochically, becauſe of a part of it; and that is in effect as much as to ſay, not the whole flock, but a part of it, is the Church redeemed by the blood of God. The ſecond argument: nay upon this ground the Elders ſhould not know, &c. To ſay it, with reverence to the memory of the Author, is clearly to any body of common judgement, exceedingly weak; For, 1. How followeth that, if the Church redeemed by the blood of God, be the Elect only, then the Elders ſhould not know what their care was, nor upon whom they ſhould beſtow it, for it muſt have this for a reaſon of it, that Church which is ſaid to be redeemed is the only object of the Elders care, which they are required to attend. This we deny, we ſay they are part of it, with Whittaker. 2. How weak is that, they might reply, we cannot ſearch into thy ſecrets to perceive who are Elect—and therefore we cannot tell how to feed them. Then it ſeems by the Reverend mans reaſoning, when our Lord laid that charge upon Peter, Joh. 20. feed my Sheep, my Lambs, which are no other, but theſe ſame he ſpeaks of, Joh. 10. 26, 27. i. e. only elect ones, v. 27, 28, 29. he might have replied, Lord I cannot ſearch thy ſecrets to know who are theſe thine elect; and therefore I cannot tell how to feed them. It is not neceſſary or a Paſtour to feed the Elect, that he know diſtinctly who are the ſingular perſons by the head, but for feeding by publick Doctrine, it is ſufficient that he know them confuſedly, that they are there in the Congregation; and if he have any grounds of a poſitive judgement concerning particular perſons, that indeed gives him further advantage to apply himſelf to thoſe in a more particularly applicatory way. If indeed it were the Miniſters work to feed efficaciter, to give the increaſe (as the Apoſtle expreſſeth the actuall efficaciouſneſſe, or efficiency of grace) and they were required to feed the elect that way, I confeſſe if the Lord did not diſtinctly point out the particular perſons to them; then they might make ſuch a reply, Lord I cannot ſearch into thy ſecrets to perceive who are theſe, &c. but the efficiency of grace is in Gods own hand alone, and the Miniſter has upon him but an externall, morall, ſuaſive adminiſtration, which he is to diſpenſe for the good of the elect, but he needeth not for that know them diſtinctly, it is enough, he knowes they are there, where he diſpenſeth them, and let God diſcern and waile them out from the reſt. 3. It is a groundleſſe ſuppoſition, and contrary to the truth, that in the current and common ſenſe of Scripture, that redeemed being ſpoken of ſpirituall redemption from ſin, and eternall wrath, (as for the name [ſanctified] it is not in this text, and therefore is impertinently brought in here) is taken for redeemed viſibly, though not really. I doubt he can bring many paſſages of Scripture, wherein it can with any appearance be ſo exponed; yea viſibly redeemed, is an expreſſion in my judgement ſtrange to Scripture: Let this ſuffice us in anſwer to Mr. Hooker in this particular: We doubt not but Mr. Rutherfurd, will have more full and acurate conſiderations on it.
section 10 I ſhall adde a word or two for proofe that by the Church redeemed by the blood of Chriſt cannot be underſtood all and every one of the Viſible Church, but only the Elect, deſiring Mr. Lockier to take the ſame to his conſideration; if the Church which Epheſ. 5. 25, 26, 27. Chriſt is ſaid to have loved, and given himſelf for, that he might ſanctifie and cleanſe it, be not the Viſible Church, as ſuch, and ſo all members of the Viſible Church, then neither is it ſo to be taken here; the conſequence and connexion of this propoſition, is neceſſary and clear, becauſe the attribute enunciate of it in both places is all one upon the matter; for what elſe is it, that Chriſt loved the Church and gave himſelf for it, that, &c. but that he redeemed it by his own blood; But that, Eph. 5. by the Church is meant only the elect, i. e. the Inviſible Church, is the conſtant Doctrine of all Orthodox Divines in their diſputes againſt the Remonſtrants univerſall Redemption, for the Redemption of the elect only, and likewiſe of all Orthodox Divines writing againſt Papiſts, on the Queſtion concerning the members of the true, Inviſible Church, the Myſticall body of Chriſt, and alſo upon the Queſtion of the Viſibility of the Church: I inſtance but a teſtimonie of one, viz. Learned Whittaker, de Eccleſ. q. 1. c. 9. tert. arg. where you ſhall find him not only affirm, but ſolidely prove this we ſay, reaſoning thus from the place: Chriſt is not the Head*This is to be underſtood of ſuch headſhip as has alluſion to the head of the naturall body, which hath a reall influence into the body; ſo no doubt Chriſt is an head, in a politicall ſort to the Viſible Church, having a morall influence, by command, &c., but of that Church which he ſhall ſave, which he ſhall preſent to himſelf on the day of Judgement, glorious, not having ſpot or wrinkle: But only the predeſtinate ſhall be ſaved, Ergo. only the Elect belong to the Church of Chriſt, i. e. the Church mentioned there; and to Bellarmin's anſwer, that Chriſt is Head to that Church which he ſhall not ſave, he ſaith, falſiſſimum eſſe: Read that whole paragraph, and you ſhall find ſundry other ſolide Arguments brought by him from that context, to prove that only the elect are that Church ſpoken of there. 2. Again I deſire him to look forward from v. 28. to ver. 30. of this very 20. chap. of the Acts, and ſee what the Apoſtle ſaith, alſo of your own ſelves ſhall men ariſe ſpeaking perverſe things, to draw away Diſciples after them: Whether we expone of your own ſelves of the whole body of the Church of Epheſus, or particularly of the Elders and Officers thereof, is all one to our purpoſe: It will not be denied that the Officers were members of the Church of Epheſus, and as Chriſtians were partakers of the common Priviledges and Titles competent to the Viſible Church; now if Paul ſhall be conceived to ſpeak, that redeemed by the blood of Chriſt (let it be out of the poſitive judgement of charity, and ſo far as he could judge) univerſally of all the Viſible Church of Epheſus; how could this conſiſt with what he ſaith, v. 30. *Surgendi verbo, quo utitur, ſignificat iam lupos illos fovere clandeſtinam perniciem donec occaſione ſibi datâ erumpant, Calv. in loc.that he knew there was ſome amongſt them preſently foſtering ſecret and clandeſtine wickedneſſe, who would afterward openly kyth, apoſtatize from the truth, and become ſeducers of others. Could the Apoſtle have a judgement ſuch as is mentioned, of ſuch that they were Redeemed by, &c. Sure, underſtand the Word, v. 20. as Mr. Lockier would, and we ſhall have clearly contradictory judgements of Paul at once: I judge the Church of Epheſus Univerſally, all and every one of you Redeemed; and yet I know ſome among you are lurking traitours who will kyth afterward: he ſayeth not, may be ſome of you will, but poſitively ſome of you will.
section 11 For the Church of the Philippians is cited chap. 1. v. 6. and chap. 4. v. 15, 16. For the latter, I ſee nothing in it that hath any colour of a ground for his point, nor yet doth the former hold forth a proof of it: The Apoſtle writeth to all the Saints at Philippi, and v. 6. declares the confidence that he had, that God who had begun the work in them would perfite it to the coming of the Lord Jeſus; Will it follow hence that all and every one of the Viſible Church of Philippi were reall Saints ſo far as man could judge, *The 6. verſ. by the Orthodox writing-againſt the Remonſtrants upon the head of perſeverance, is applyed only to the Elect and true Believers, in the judgement of verity, or truth of the thing it ſelf. See Ameſ. Coron. art. 5. arg. 2. proving this by ſolide reaſons.no Logick will evince this from theſe words cited: If he had taken in the 7. verſ. he might had a fairer ſhew of an argument, even as it is meet for me to think ſo of you all, becauſe I have you in my, heart, in as much as both in my bonds and in defence and confirmation of the Goſpel, ye all are partakers of my grace. Here indeed I acknowledge is a judgment of charity paſſed upon them all at Philippi, as truely gracious, and ſuch as God would perfect his Work in, and thinks not that it can be exponed ſo as to be underſtood, only of that whole Church collectively: for as it is well marked by judicious Ameſius on the place now cited, the Apoſtle in this v. putteth in the Univerſall particle All, which he hath not in the former, wherein he expreſſeth a certain aſſured judgement of faith (foreign, being perſwaded of this very thing) of perſeverance of theſe he ſpeaks of, and therefore that being ſpoken indefinitely, this muſt be underſtood univerſally of all and every one of them; it is very evident that in the following verſ. where that particle is put in, though the act of judgement be leſſe intenſive, but a judgement of charity, a hoping and probable eſtimation (and indeed the word is changed, it is here foreign) yet the object is of larger extenſion and muſt be underſtood of them univerſally. Then will you ſay, do you not yeeld the point in contraverſie, to Mr. Lockier. Anſw. No wayes: 1. Remember what we ſaid; …e main point which Mr. Lockier ſhould have proven to make out his generall Doctrine or Theſis, was, that theſe particular Churches did gather, that is, receive in perſons to their viſible ſociety, formally upon this account, and no otherwiſe, that they were truely Godly ſo far as men could judge, or as others ſay in the judgement of charity; But all that I grant here of the Church of Philippi, is that they were all ſuch de facto & quoad eventum, and no more can be proven from the Text. 2. Though this much be granted of this Church, yet his induction is not made out, no, not as to this much: Becauſe neither hath he proven, nor can be proven ſo much of the reſt of the Churches which he named: Yea this is only the Church mentioned in the Epiſtles that hath ſo high and generall commendation as this, except it be that there is an hint of the like title given to the Theſſalonians, 1 Theſſ. 5. v. 5. Ye are all the Children of the light. Yet this expreſſion is much different from that ſpoken of the Philippians, and may well ſuffer that expoſition given of it by the Learned Nether-Dutch Interpreters in their notes, ye are all, namely all who beleeve in Chriſt. And indeed it is not likely he ſhould be Interpreted to ſpeak ſo of all and every one of the members of that Church, ſeeing he not only intimateth in both the Epiſtles, but in the ſecond poſitively affirmeth, that he heard there were among …hem ſome that walked diſorderly, working not at all, but buſie bodies. Obj, But he bids them not keep company with them, that they may be aſhamed, i. e. as ſome expone it, Excommunicate and caſt them out of the Church.
Anſ. He requires not this to be done to them, but in caſe of obſtinacy: Now I ſuppoſe they had not proven obſtinate, but left that diſorderly walking, in taking themſelves to work for their living in ſome calling, ſo they would eſcaped the infliction of that cenſure; but would that been ground ſufficient preſently to hold ſuch who had been ſo walking before, for truely gracious ſo far as men can judge? I doubt much if any man will aſſert it.
section 12 Mr. Lockier ſlips the Coloſſians in the proof of his induction, but what might been alledged of it, is alike with what was cited for the Epheſians. For the Churches of the Jews, firſt concerning that at Jeruſalem, he referreth back to what he hath ſaid already out of the Epiſtle to the Hebrews; and we refer the Reader to what we anſwered thereunto. Next for them altogether he citeth, 1 Pet. 1, 2, 3. 1 Pet. 5. 13. with Gal. 1. 22. And then to the 1 Theſſ. 2. 13, 14. and then addeth, the Church of the Jews were ſuch Profeſſors, as indured perſecution, ſharp tryalls for the truth, and were eminently exemplary to the World this way, as indeed Profeſſion did then generally expoſe unto, though now not; and ſo voluntary Profeſſion there—ſignified a great deale more than the forced Profeſſion of the Goſpel, which now we make, under ſuch powers as call for, and countenance theſe things, doth; which ſhould be obſerved, and allowed by them, which compare Profeſſion then, with Profeſſion now, if they dealt equally in this Controverſie. Anſ. 1. The Apoſtle Peter clearly writeth to the Elect, truely regenerated, who have obtained the like precious faith with himſelf, are kept by the power of God to ſalvation, rejoiced in the hope thereof, though they had not ſeen Chriſt yet loved him, beleeving on him, rejoiced with joy unſpeakable and full of glory, already (in the firſt fruits, and undoubted intereſt) received the end of their faith, the ſalvation of their ſouls. What? Are theſe things that uſe to be given or attributed to hypocrites (ſuch as Mr. Lockiers Viſible Saints may be) and that in ſuch a poſitive way? Or were there never a hypocrite in theſe Viſible Churches of the Jews? 2. The place of the Theſſalonians ſpeaks of the Churches in Iudaea indefinitely and collectively, not univerſally; ſaith not that all and every one of them endured ſuch perſecution and trialls, again, ſuppoſe they did ſo after they were Church members, this is nothing to the point in hand; the Queſtion is upon what account they were taken in. It ſeemeth he ſaw this, and therefore ſubjoyneth that Profeſſion did then generally expoſe unto ſuch trialls. But undertaking of a profeſſion of Religiō expoſing to trials, if there be not actuall aſſaulting, is no ſufficient ground or evidence poſitively to hold a man truely gracious ſo far as men can judge. 3. Such wonders and ſignes as the Goſpel was accompanied with then, may be as forcible to draw men without change of heart, unto the profeſſion of it (as we ſee in Simon Magus) as a Magiſtrats call and countenancing of it, when there is no ſuch miracles and ſignes; and therefore there is not ſuch inequality between profeſſion then and now, nor ſuch inequall dealing in comparing the one profeſſion with the other as Mr. Lockier imagines.
section 13 After this induction neither full in the enumeration (for there be other Churches in the New Teſt▪ mentioned beſide theſe, as the Churches of Aſia, beſide Epheſus, Rev. 2. and 3. which I think he did forbear to bring in his induction, becauſe their caſe would ſpoken too clear againſt his undertaking) nor made good in the particulars, as to the thing affirmed of them, he formeth an objection at his own pleaſure againſt himſelf, and aſſayes to anſwer it; Let us conſider both,
section 14 If it be objected (ſayeth he) that there were wicked perſons in theſe Churches, therefore we may conſtitute Churches now in the dayes of the Goſpel with good and bad, with truely good and ſeemingly good, ſuch as make onelyonly a profeſſion, though we know nothing of the power of Religion in them. To this I Anſw. 1. Will you with Anabaptiſts have the Church under the New Teſtament conſtitute onelyonly with truely good, and not at all with ſeemingly good? this indeed is your frequently repeated aſſertion in this lecture; But firſt, 'tis contrare to the expreſſe judgement of ſome of the moſt judicious and adviſed of your own ſide, how often hath Mr. Hooker this, that theſe of whom the Church is conſtitute may be ſeemingly good, not ſavingly, not really, gilt not gold, Saints in the judgement of charity though they be not inwardly ſanctified. 2. It contradicts himſelf in his additionall qualification, which ſometimes he inſerteth as farre at leaſt as men can judge. Well then, a Church Viſible now in the dayes of the Goſpel may be conſtitute of any who are truely good as far as men can judge, but many ſuch are but ſeemingly good, and really bad; for mans judgement cannot diſcern the power of Religion in the heart, neither intuitively, nor yet by diſcourſe from outward effects infallibly, but only probably, cui judicio poteſt ſubeſſe falſum, it may be deceived and the object of it is but foreign which ſeemeth but is not alwayes what it is judged to be. 2. We forme not our objection ſo naked and wateriſhly as you make it, there were wicked perſons in theſe Churches, therefore, &c. But take it thus and anſwer it then: In theſe Churches, at leaſt ſeveralls of them, there were perſons, whoſe wayes were ſuch that they could not poſitively be accounted ſo far as men could judge, truely gracious, ſuch as God could bear witnes to as ſealed for his by his holy Spirit, and the Churches are not required to un-Church and Excommunicate any upon that account, that they were not ſuch, as might be ſo accounted and judged of, &c. Ergo, &c. But this is not the onelyonly objection we have againſt this inductive argument, he may find ſome others before this. Now to his anſwer.
section 15 1. Sayeth he, à facto ad jus non valet argumentum, becauſe ſuch things are, therefore they ought to be, will not hold. Becauſe bad men were in the Churches, the generall ſtate of which in ſuch a time of the world, John ſpeaks of Rev. 11. 1, 2. therefore they ſhould be there, will not follow; for then why is John bid caſt out that which is without, and not meaſure it, what is allowed to abide, is rather the Index, ſhewing what is the allowed and proper matter, the true conſtitution of Church-ſtate. Anſw. Here are a heap of things to be noted. 1. If that maxime hold good à facto ad jus non valet argumentum, becauſe ſuch things are therefore they ought to be, will not hold; then Mr. Lockier, your inductive argument for any thing alleadged in it falls to the ground without force; for all that you have alledged in it is a mater of fact; and therefore I may retort upon you thus: Becauſe theſe Churches did conſiſt of perſons truely good ſo far as men could judge (which is the only thing you can alledge from what is ſaid in the Epiſtles to them, and yet proves not) therefore they ſhould conſiſt of ſuch only, and no other, will not follow. 2. You wholly looſe your Argument taken from them again if you grant but that de facto there were other perſons in them then truely godly as far as men could judge, at that time when the Epiſtles were written to them. For unleſſe you aſſert that at that time they were conſtitute of perſons all ſuch, you alledge the Epiſtles to no purpoſe, becauſe the Epiſtles ſpeaks to them with relation to that very time they were written in. 3. It is raſhlie and inconſideratlie ſaid by Mr. Lockier, without exception, limitation, or qualification, (eſpecially he being now ſpeaking of maters of Religion) à facto ad jus non valet Argumentum, why, then let all Arguments which Orthodox Writers have brought from the practice of the Apoſtles and Primitive Churches regiſtrate in Scripture to prove they ought de jure ſo to do, as in the mater of ſanctifying the firſt day of the Week as the Chriſtian Sabbath, and many others in other matters, be caſten as null. If Mr. Lockier ſay this, he ſhall gratifie much the Papiſts for their Doctrine of the neceſſity of unwritten traditions; but ſhall be diſclaimed in this by all Proteſtant Divines, who give us ſundry caſes in matters of Religion, wherein it is good and ſolide reaſoning from facts and practiſes regiſtrate in Scripture, to duty; ſo ſuch perſons did, and therefore ſo ought we to do; eſpecially in matters of Church Government hath this way of reaſoning place; the Lord having left many things belonging thereunto, only in examples of practiſes (let the Reader ſee concerning this purpoſe the Authors of jus divinum of Church-Government, part. 1. cap. 4.) from which we are to gather and take our rule: Now amongſt other rules belonging to this head, this certainly is one, what was the practice of Primitive Churches, regiſtrate in Scripture, in maters of Religion, of common concernment to the Churches in all ages, and is not diſſallowed nor diſſapproven in them, eſpecially when many other things are reproved in them, nor is againſt a generall precept otherwhere in Scripture; ſuch a practice hath the force of a rule; and we may well reaſon ab hoc facto ad jus. See Perkins, Heb. 11. 6. pag. in fol. 29. col. 1. A, ſo they did, therefore ſo may we lawfully. But I aſſume, theſe Primitive Churches, admitted and retained members, all of which were not truely Godly and Saints as far as men could judge, and were not reproved for this, even when they were reproved for other things done by them; Nor can their be a generall precept ſhewn in the word contrary thereunto, Ergo, &c. 4. What may ſeem to be alledged by him from Rev. 11. 2. as containing ſuch a generall precept, is ſufficiently diſcuſſed before. The intention and ſcope of that place is not to hold forth a rule concerning the ordering of the conſtitution of the Church, but to foretell an event that was to come to paſſe upon the Church in time of Antichriſts prevalencie; that which is without ſignifieth not perſons, but the face & outward ſtate of the Viſible Church, and caſting out is not un-Churching of perſons, but judicial giving up the outward ſtate of the Viſible Church to Antichriſt and his followers, and by meaſuring there is not meant regulating of the conſtitution of a Society, but a typicall prediction of the ſtraitneſſe that Orthodox and Godly Worſhippers were to be at that time redacted unto. 5. But what meaneth Mr. Lockier, when being about to infringe the objection brought againſt his induction of theſe Churches, (viz. that there were wicked perſons in them) and ſaying that becauſe bad men were in the Churches it doth not follow, therefore they ſhould be in them, he caſteth in that, the generall eſtate of which in ſuch a time of the World John ſpeaketh, Rev. 11. 1, 2. what meaneth he, I ſay, by ſuch a time of the World wherein the generall ſtate of the Churches were ſuch? if he mean that time wherein the Epiſtles were written to the Churches. 1. That paſſage of the Revelation is impertinently alledged; for, be the meaning of it what it will, it ſpeaks in relation to another time, long afterward to come. 2. It is certain 'tis the alledgeance in his own induction that theſe Epiſtles importe that then they were all conſtitute of truely good ones ſo far as men could judge, If he mean another time then that, he ſpeaks this as impertinently; for the objection ſpeaks of theſe Churches in relation to the time when the Epiſtles were written to them.
2ly. Saith he in his anſwer, Churches may be negligent, and not ſo ſtrict to their rule to examine and prove the grace of God in ſuch as offer to joyn themſelves, as the Church of Jeruſalem did, if Churches do not mind diligently their rule, they may have evil perſons among them enough, and yet not be able to maintain that it ſhould be ſo; 'tis like the Aſian Churches, and moſt of the firſt, quickly after the Apoſtles time grew faulty in this kind. Anſ. 1. Reader, ſee here pretty Logick: Mr. Lockier in his induction undertook to prove and conclude a rule from the examples of theſe particular Churches, that becauſe theſe particular Churches were conſtitute of perſons truely good, therefore all Churches ought to be conſtitute only of ſuch perſons; it is objected, there were many other perſons then ſuch, in theſe Churches; and now he anſwereth, Churches (he muſt apply it to theſe Churches, elſe he is extra…oleas) may be negligent and not ſo ſtrict to their rule; is not this a running in a round? Theſe Churches were conſtitute of ſuch members, Ergo, ſo ought all Churches generally to be, if they were conſtitute of any other, it was becauſe they were not ſtrict to their rule, i. e. in plain Language, becauſe they were not conſtitute as Churches ought to be. 2. But let go this, and the inductive Argument; for it is clearly quite here, and refuge had to the generall rule. I ſay where is that rule of examining and proving the grace of God in ſuch as offer themſelves to joyn, that they were not ſo ſtrict to as they ſhould? And where have we an inſtance of the Church of Jeruſalems greater ſtrictneſſe to that rule then theſe other Churches? Thus to ſet down naked aſſertions, is it not to deſpiſe hearers and Readers? 3. To what purpoſe do ye ſpeak of the Churches of Aſia, and other firſt Churches their p…actice after the Apoſtles time? The objection ſpeaks of theſe Churches even as they were when the Apoſtles were living and did write to them theſe Epiſtles, out of which you labour to inſtruct your induction of them.
3ly. Or Churches (ſaith he) though very diligent and duely ſtrict in this mater, yet are not infallible, and therefore hypocrits may deceive a Church for a time, and ſo get in where they have no right to be; the Apoſtle Jude doth confeſſe ſo much, v. 4. not only perſons may thus creep into the Church, but alſo into office, and ſtill eſcape the firſt judgement made upon them by the Churches of which they are. The Apoſtle doth intimate this to Timothy, lay hands ſuddenly on no man, and his charge on this may make a man tremble, 1 Tim. 5. 21, 22. We are, as appears by this compared with other Scriptures, to uſe all care as much as in us lyeth, to prevent by the firſt judgement of the Church, all that are not godly, from coming to a ſtate to which they are not approved by God, but if men by ſubtilty creep in where they ſhould not be, they are to be caſt out by the after judgement of the Church, which is Excommunication, when it doth evidently appear that they are hypocrites, though not drunkards, and ſuch kind of bodily-ſinners, which is far leſſe ſimply conſidered then hypocriſie, which after-judgement is an Ordinance to cleanſe the houſe of God and keep it pure, And doth ſtrongly confirme the point I am on, that the mater of the Viſible Church ſhould be reall Saints. Anſ. 1. All this is juſt nothing to the purpoſe in hand. Mr. Lockier to prove his generall Doctrine, that a Church Viſible ought to be conſtitute, in its matter, of ſuch as are truely Godly, at leaſt ſo far as men can judge, had undertaken to ſhew by induction, that theſe particular Churches were conſtitute of perſons all ſuch. It was objected that they had in them ſome others. Now here he tells us in anſwer that Churches not being infallible may be deceived (and conſequently ſo might thir be) in taking in ſuch as ought not to be within. Once granting that it was ſo in theſe Churches, hes he not quite again his alledgeance concerning them in his inductive Argument; and taken him to the generall rule, which was the thing he undertook to prove, and but begs the thing in Queſtion? But to the mater in this branch of the Anſwer. Then, 2. When he ſaith hypocrites have no right to be in the Church, or, as afterward, ſhould not be there, if the meaning were, that men, though they make a profeſſion of Religion, yet continuing hypocrites and graceleſſe in their hearts do ſin in adjoyning themſelves to the Viſible Church and that they have no right in foro interiori this we ſhould not deny; but if his meaning be, that no hypocrits have a jus Eccleſiaſticum and in foro exteriori to be in the Viſible Church, we deny it, and he ſhall never be able to prove it. 3. 'Tis true that Jude ſaith, that ſuch men creept in unawars into the fellowſhip of the Church, who afterward kythed to be ſuch, as I ſhall not deny, they ought to have been caſten out: But Jude ſaith not, that theſe when they made a Profeſſion of Religion, and did not vent ſuch abominations, had no jus Eccleſiaſticum to be admitted by the Church into their fellowſhip. 4. All that Mr. Lockier here bringeth in concerning admitting perſons into Offices in the Church is idly and impertinently alledged to the point in hand: We acknowledge that none ought to be put in ſuch Offices, but ſuch as give evidences of all manner of godly converſation; We have an expreſſe and full rule for this, 1 Tim. 3. And hands ought not to be laid upon any man, without a foregoing tryall and proofe of theſe things. But where will ye ſhew us in all the Scripture from the one end to the other ſuch a rule requiring ſuch qualifications in perſons, and ſuch a tryall of them before, and in relation to their admiſſion into the fellowſhip of the Viſible Church; And to be under Paſtorall care and the Miniſtry of the Word? If he could ſhew us this, either in precept or approved practice, we ſhould ſoon yeeld, and be at an end of this controver…e; But this he cannot, nor ever will be able to ſhew; and therefore the reaſoning from the care and acuracy to be uſed in trying perſons, who are already in the Church, in relation to admitting them to places of office, unto admiſſion of perſons into the ſociety of the Viſible Church, is unreaſonable. 5. When he ſaith that men are to be caſt out by Excommunication, when it doth evidently appear, that they are hypocrites, though not drunkards, &c. I deſire, 1. That it may be obſerved that an hypocrite may be taken in a double ſenſe. Firſt, for ſuch an one as groſſely and knowingly counterfeits a Profeſſion of Chriſtianity, and ſo indeed is nothing elſe but an hiſtrionicall ſtage-profeſſor; Secondly, more largly for any that hath a profeſſion of Chriſtianity, wherein, may be, he is morally ſerious, but hath not within a Principle of true, ſupernaturall, ſaving grace: Such are all unregenerate perſons in the Church, ſuch an one was that young Man in the Goſpel, whom our Lord is ſaid to have loved, and the Lawyer of whom he ſaid, thou art not far from the Kingdome of Heaven. Now if we ſpeak of hypocrites in the former ſenſe, if men appear to be ſuch, I ſhall confeſſe that if they have been within they are to be caſt out by Excommunication, yet in the order that Chriſt hath preſcribed, after due admonition and evidence of obſtinacy and incorrigibleneſſe in the evill, and of this I ſhall ſay more then Mr. Lockier, viz. that it is far greater, not only then drunkenneſſe, and other ſuch bodily ſins ſimplie in genere peccati in the nature of ſin; But, if it evidently appear, alſo in genere ſcandali in the nature of ſcandall (which is the ground and conſideration upon which cenſure proceedeth,) becauſe it is a very mocking of God in the higheſt degree: But if we ſpeak of hypocrites in the latter ſenſe; We deny utterly that every man appearing to be ſuch is to be Excommunicated and caſten out of the Societie of the Viſible Church. If a man profeſſe ſeriouſlie Religion, ſubmitting himſelf to Ordinances, though there were appearance, yea though it were revealed by God, that yet he were not Regenerate, -and indued with true ſupernaturall Grace, I ſay ſuch an one were not to be excommunicate; Let Mr. Lockier, or any for him, ſhew a warrand of Scripture for Excommunicating a man for non-regeneration. The Doctrine of all Orthodox Divines hither till, concerning the object of Excommunication, and that grounded upon the Word of God, is that which is ſhortly expreſſed by the Learned and Reverend Profeſſours of Leyden Synop. pur. theol, Objectum circa quod exercetur haec Diſciplina Eccleſiaſtica ſunt illi qui fratres nominantur; cauſa verò eſt vita prava vel Doctrina perverſa, nec ideo ſtatim, ubi quis frater nominatus in hujuſmodi ſcandala incidit, a corpore Eccleſiae excludi debet, quemadmodum quibuſdam Anabaptiſtis in uſu eſt: Sed poſt privatas demum, & publicas Eccleſiae admonitiones contemptas & rejectas, ſicuti Chriſti verba aperte ſignificant, Mat. 18.] diſp. 48. theſ. 25, 26. And though drunkenneſſe and ſuch like bodily-ſins be leſſe then hypocriſie in this ſenſe, i. e. non-regeneration, ſimply, and in genere peccati in the nature of ſin, yet it is not leſſe in genere ſcandali, in the kind of ſcandall and offence unto the Church: Nay this hath not the nature of ſcandall at all. 6. Yet Mr. Lockier according to the genius of his Doctrine ought to ſay not only men, when it doth evidently appear that they are hypocrits, but even if it doth not evidently appear that they are truly gracious, and we cannot diſcern in them the power of godlineſſe, they are to be Excommunicate: For his Doctrine is that none are fit mater to be admitted or permitted to conſtitute a Viſible Church, but ſuch as are truely Godly ſo far as men truely Godly can judge and diſcern. I beleeve moſt of the Independent way will diſclaime him in this. 7. Excommunication is an Ordinance to keep the houſe of God pure and according to what it ought to be, in point of duety, in foro exteriori, and in order to ſalvation, this we grant, only in this ſenſe, that it is an Ordinance tending towards this as a means, (for this is an end of Excommunication that the ſpirit may be ſaved in the day of the Lord Jeſus) but not in this ſenſe that the Church is obliged thereby to effectuate it quoad eventum, this belongeth to God alone. Excommunication is an Ordinance to keep the Church pure and according to what it ought to be, in point of qualification in foro exteriori, in order to externall Viſible Church-ſtate, even quoad eventum; But now what this qualification in foro exteriori in order to Church-ſtate is, is the thing in Queſtion. So Mr. Lockier in his reaſoning from Excommunication to his Doctrine, either alledgeth nothing to the purpoſe, taking his antecedent in the former ſenſe; or begs the Queſtion, taking it in the latter. 8. In the concluſion as propounded here: Firſt note, If only reall Saints be the proper mater of a Viſible Church, and ſaving grace the complexion of it; then all Saints ſo far as men can judge, are not fit mater; for theſe are not neceſſarily reall Saints, ſimply. 2. When as he ſaith, not one known to be otherwiſe, he ſhould have ſaid anſwerably to the former words, no not one, not known, ſo far as men can judge, to be ſuch. 3. [Can juſtifiably enter] may be conceived, either in point of duty incumbent to themſelves who enter, and ſo the meaning is this, men joyning themſelves to the Viſible Church and making profeſſion of Religion, without true faith and repentance, are not juſtifiable in this before God; or it may be conceived to be ſpoken of the Churches active admiſſion of men into externall Church-communion, and the ſenſe is this, it is not juſtifiable that men not having ſaving grace ſhould by the Church be admitted to enter into the fellowſhip of the Viſible Church: If in any thing, certainly in propounding Doctrines, ſtating controverſies, forming concluſions, ambiguities ſhould be ſhun'd. We grant the former ſenſe, but the latter we deny; and it is not yet proven. This much of the inducti…: Now come we to the fourth way of probation, by reaſons.