George Fox Digged Out of His Burrows, Account of dispute 2

George Fox Digged Out of His Burrows · Account of dispute 2

p. 216141] Our Conferences and Disputes at PROVIDENCE upon the seven other Positions mentioned in my Paper sent to G. Fox and his Associates.

AFter we were thus (as above said) parted: They Remembered their Promise to me of discussing the other seven at Providence, and accordingly Iohn Stubs and William Edmundson sent me a Note of their willingness to come to Providence the last day of the next week being the 17th. day of the sixth MonethMonth called August.The Conference at Providence…

I Returned them from the Shoar side another Note signifying, that (if God permitted) I would then and there be ready to Receive them.

That day it pleased the goodness and patience of God to bring us to, and being met thus at Providence, I first presented them with the Letter which was sent to them and me (God knows) without my thought or knowledg, at Newport, in publick Assembled. But there they thrice refused it, and here at Providence William Edmundson Answers, that p. 217they came not to Pro- [142] vidence to hear Papers, but to hear me make out my Charges against them: One of my Neighbours Thomas Olny Senior an able and Leading man amongst the People called Baptists at Providence, Passages about Reading the former Recited Letter. Thomas Olnymoved also for the Reading of the Letter, William Edmundson said to him who art thou? Art not thou a Baptist? hast not thou seen it already? and further said to him, Thou art an Envious and filthy man, upon no other Provocation but his Rational desire the Letter might be Read. William Edmondson thongh he had on either side of him an able Iohn, viz. Iohn Stubs and Iohn Cartwright spake all, and at last was forced to say that if the Letter Contained matter tending to prove my Positions it should be read. But in the End I put up my Letter again, at the motion of Captain Holden of Warwick, as I did at Newport, in the morning of our third dayes Conference, for I observed that for all their bruitish Clamour of Diana, their Light or dark Lanthorn, …hey could not endure to be Informed, Admonished, Counselled, least of all Reproved by any: and I also resolved to wait upon Gods mercy for a Season of publishing it on the House Top, and therefore the Reader hath it Faithfully presented in the Eighty seventh Page in the beginning of the third dayes Conference at Newport, About a strange Query put to my Autagonist by Captain Green.this time stood up Captain Iohn Green of Warwick one of our Magistrates, who observing the Insulting Carriage especially of William Edmundson, he desired leave to propose one Query, which being granted he said, he spake not as a Magistrate with Authority, but as an Auditor and sitter by, and he said, I desire …o know whether p. 218Mr. Williams be here as a Delinquent Charged to Answer at the Barr, or as a Disputant upon equal Terms.

This Query they waved as well as they could, and I waved it also, and bore what seemed Intollerable to some that we might not be discouraged to go on in our business, about this time Mr. Caverly of Warwick desiring leave to speak,A Moderator motioned. motioned for the Choice of a Moderator between us, William Edmundson Answered that Roger Williams had himself pro- 143] vided a Moderator, and he produced and Read my Paper of Position,, wherein I desired that all matters might be left to every mans Conscience and Iudgement. &c.

I knew with whom I had to deal, and therefore purposely waved, what ever I thought they would bogle at, & purposely gave them all possible Advantages, &c. and I humbly waited on God for patience for his sake to bear with all Inconveniences, Insultings, Interruptions, &c. and then, I knew there would be no great need of a Moderator.

Having thus cleard the way, The first of the Positions debated at ProvidenceI told them, I would briefly fall on my proof of the first, of the seventh Positions to be debated at Providence, William Edmundson took forth his Paper and Read it, viz. [The People called Quakers in Effect hold no God, no Christ, no Spirit, no Angel, no Devil, no Resurrection, no Iudgement, no Heaven, no Hell, but what is in man.

I told them that it was true, that in words and Terms they professed and maintained all these, as other Protestants did, but if their writings were Examined, and especially this of G. Fox which I had p. 219there by me it should appear that what they professed in one place they overthrew in another: I told them that they had there George Fox his Book as well as I, and if Iohn Stubs would turn to them I would name the Quoted Pages, and read them and he might read them also.

I named Pag. 273. where George Fox brings in Alexander Ross saying, Alexander Ross[It is horrible Blasphemy to say the Scripture is not the Word of God, and to say the Soul is a part of God.]

He Answers, [The Scriptures are the words of God, Exodus 20. and the four Books of the Revelations, but Christ is the word in whom they End. And it is not Horrible Blasphemy to say that the Soul is a part of God, for it comes out of him, and that which comes out of him is of him, and Rejoyceth in him,G Fox his Non-Sen…e I said here what George Fox meant by the four Books of the Revelations, I knew not, and if they did they should do well to declare.

145] But they past it by and so did I and I insisted on the matter which was that G. Fox imagined such a God and Godhead as is partible and divisible,Quakers blasphemous opinion about Goa and the Sovl which might be divided into parts and pieces, and by this strange communication of his Essence, made him dissolvable, and so corruptible, &c. against the Purity & Majesty & Eternity of God: For this renders the Essence or Being of God capable of falling from his purity as man hath done and doth, and capable of punishment and condemnation in Hel-Fire as the Soul of man is; all which and more necessary Consequences of of that opinion are horrible and blasphemous to imagine, much more to p. 220be uttered of the eternal invisible and infinitely and only Wise God.

Iohn Stubs here read the words of G. Fox and said,About Gods Breath. the reason was to be weighed which G. Fox used which was; For it came out of him, and that which came out out of him is of him, and rejoyceth in him. To this end he desired the word in Gen. 2. might be viewed, which he turned to and read, viz. God breathed into him the breath of life and man became a living Soul.

About this time Sam. Gorton sen. desired to speak, and said, If it be affirmed that God can be divided, & that man was a Part of God, the God-head was destroyed and the Soul of man, and upon this Basis all the rest would follow which was asserted in this Position. And whereas Iohn Stubs read it as it is in our Translation, viz. God breathed into him the breath of life, Mr. Gorton said it was Lives in the Margin, the breath of Lives, which Iohn Stubs acknowledged.

It is frequent in their Books, (when they will speak plainly) for them to confess that God breathed forth himself into Adam, and that ther fore mans Soul or Spirit is a part of the Divine Essence, The Quakers Gross conceit of soul & bodythat the Soul is an increated substance: that as for the Body, it comes from the Earth, and returns to the Earth, and dust and rottenness, and however they sometimes preach and print hat the Body shall rise again, yet others again of them speak plainly, that as the body of a dog or beast so it vanisheth: But as for the Spirit, they say that returns to God, that is into God. And although they talk to blind our eyes of a Resurrection and Iudgment, and of Souls p. 221being punished with the Devil and his Angels, yet others of them affirm that all Souls return into God, and that the soul of Iudas is now as happy in God as the Soul of Peter, yea others of [146] them speak plainly that they are Christ & God: therefore one of them being desired to give thanks at dinner, asked roundly, to whome should I give thanks? to my self? and Calvin relates how (long ago) one Quinitinus in his time a Leader this way,Their high blasphemyes. being demanded how he did? resolutely answered, How can Christ doe but well? and yet at that time he was very sick.

About this time W. E. said, what dost thou tel us of storyes what this man said and that man said we will not believe thee! But just here rose up a neighbour Ioseph Iinks, who said he had no prejudice against the Quakers, yet he could witness to the truth of these speeches of the Quakers, for one of them had spoke as much to his face lately at Newport on Rhode-Island: but I still laboured to keep down heat and therefore I told them I would not trouble them with Proofs from elsewhere, but from their own writings, and from that of G. Fox there present, and therfore I prayed them to turn to Pag. 39. where G. Fox brings in Magnus Bine saying,Pag. 89. Magnus Bine. The Saints are neither in the fulness of the God-head nor part, away with this Blasphemy which saith this is, &c. Fox answereth, The work of the Ministry was to bring People to the Knowledg of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the unity of the Faith, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: and Christ will dwell in the Saints, and God will dwell in them: and thou sayest they have p. 222no part of the Fulness of the Godhead, and Iohn saith, of his fulness have we all received, in whome dwels the Godhead bodily, and ye be all in the Blasphemy, that be out of this part of the Fulness.

I said, that G. Fox rose up contrary to what Magnus Bine affirmed, to wit, That the Saints are not in the fulness of the Godhead.About the fulness of the God head. But W. E. bid me let G. F. his words alone, his meaning alone, and keep to the words. I told them the substance of my proof lay there in the substance of G. Fox his answer to his Adversaryes: I took Fox his own word for the Quotation out of his Adversary, which may be thought to be taken with as much Favor and advantage to himself as may be:Unreasonable Reasoning. and therefore if they stopt me from opening and comparing the words in a rational and just way, they stopt me in the bringing forth of my Proofs and Arguments.

I think here it was that W. E. said further, If thou goest on to make out G. Fox his Sence and meaning, we tell thee that we will stop thee, &c.

147] But since our business is with G. Fox, as well if not more than with W. E. especially because of his Book, we shall now more freely inlarge upon the words &c. and Sence and Meaning also.

For the Fulness of the Godhead is one thing, and another thing our (and all his works and Creatures) partaking of that Fulness, in some mercifull likeness and coformity, as Moses and we behold his Back or dark Resemblance, and by Re…lection, (as we behold the Sun) take in some weak low thoughts and conceits of the Eternal and Invisible incomprehensible and inconceivable Power and Godhead.

p. 223Thus to partake of some drops of the Ocean of his Wisdom, The great temptation of knowing and holy People.Power, Goodness, Holiness, &c. is not to become an Ocean of Power, Wisdom, Goodness, Holiness, yea Wisdom it self, Power it self, Goodness it self, Holiness it self as God is. This devilish Pride was the Sin of the Devils, or wicked spirits, this was the Sin of our first Parents unto which the Devil beguiled them; and this is Sathans bait still to catch all Wise & Rich & High, and especially Holy People with, viz. to be as God, to be in the fulness of the Godhead, to be God himself.

2. However this Iugler speaks here of the Fulness of the Godhead bodily in Christ, The Quakers make themselvs God and Christ.yet if he be examined and searched it is clear that by Christ he meanes the Body, the Quakers and every one of their Bodyes is Christ in whome the Godhead dwels bodily: and the great Mystery of which the Holy Scripture speaketh, 1 Tim. 3. Is God manifest in their flesh, and therefore Sam. Fisher useth in his Writing, Christ Iesus) as Peter did in his denying of him saying [that Person whome you call God-Man] is as high Treason against the King of kings, and King of Saints, as hath ordinarily been acted since God most wonderfully gave life to a lump of Clay, which now perks up to the eternal Power and Godhead.

Pag. 90. G. Fox brings in the same Author saying, Magnus Bine.There is a kind of Infiniteness in the Soul, and it cannot be Infiniteness it self, He answers, Is not the Soul without beginning, comeing from God and returning into God again which hath it in his hand? which hand goes against him that doth evill, which throws p. 224down that which warrs against it, and Christ the Power of God, the Bishop of the Soul which brings it up into God, which comes out from God, hath this a beginning and ending, and is not this infinite in it self, and more than all the World?

148] I Reply,The Soul of man infinite in these few lines, let him that hath his sences make common sence and English of some of them.

However this is express that the Soul is without beginning or ending, coming out of God, and returning into God: [Hath this (saith Fox (a beginning or ending, and is not this infinite in it self and more than all the World]

I know I have had better Opinions and better Reasons from these poor Natives of America then this poor self conceited God and Christ. G. Fox expresseth concerning the Soul and Spirit of Man: what is here but a bruitish notion of the Spirit of man, and a bruitish notion of the Eternal Power and Godhead?

Among the six or seven Opinions of the Soul of man, this is one (and one of the grossest) viz. that Mans Soul is an efflux, efflation, that is a flowing or breathing out of the Essence of eternal and infinite Godhead. This worst and most Blasphemous Opinion of the rest, the old Serpent hath taught these Foxians, in so much that these bewitched Souls say and print,The Quakers are the old Manicheans that this World is God, and the Godhead, manifest no11Change "no" to "in," R. W. Ms. Ann. variety of appearances, and returning all again into the center of the Godhead: p. 225in which they shew horrible ignorance and Blockishness in heavenly or earthly matters:Municheus his 2 Principles for reason tells us that Finites be innumberable and yet numerable in time, but Infinite is but one. The Quakers and Manicheans are but one in many particulars Manicheus held two infinite powers or princes: One infinitely good, the other infinitely as bad, which they say is the reason (in some Disputes I have had with them) why God nor the Devil, good nor evil gets the final victory one over another in this World. But this notion of two infinite or boundless Beings, is soon found simple and bruitish for an infinite or boundless Being, cannot possibly receive a Neighbour a Competitiour, or second infinite or boundless, for then the second would terminate and bound the first and it self also and so not one infinite at all be granted. Beware of Dogs saith Paul & the Holy Spirit saith (Cant. 2. beware of Foxes [take us the foxes] sure it is:The infinite patience of God we are to sly from bruitish fellowship, with them in these bruitish Fancyes, so also to fly from these their brutish Barkings and Blasphemings against the infinitely Glorious and inconceivable Excellencies of God, and among the rest his incomprehensible patience, which could not bear such horrible provocations were not his patience himself, infinite and incomprehen- [149] sible: Alas poor lump of clay and dust and ashes: poor finite vapours we are, that are so far from being infinite that (in a sence) we are infinitely Blocks and Beasts, and not able to give a guess at what Infinity, and an infinite Majesty and Godhead is.The Quakers obstinate in horrible fancies & Blasphemies

I quoted Pag. 67. where against Fr. Higinson he p. 226saith [Again thou makest a great Puddir that one should witnes he is equall with God] G. Fox answers that the English Divines in their Catechisme say [that Holy Ghost and the Son are equall in Power and Glory with the Father] yet if any one come to witness the Son of God revealed in him: or come to witness the Holy Ghost in them as they that gave out Scriptures to witness the mind of Christ and witness that equality with the Father, that equality which you speak of you Priests destroy, that which you have put forth to the Nation, and cry out horrible Blasphemie.

I Reply, let these horrible Blasphemous lines be examined, and when the black and hellish juyce is prest out of them, will it not be this, viz. [The Quakers say that they are equal in power and Glory with God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Pag. 182. I will adde to this Pag. 282. where G. Fox brings in Daniel Gaudry saying, Daniel Caudrysurely they cannot be perfect here nor hereafter in equality but in quality. G. F. answers, Christ makes no distinction in his words but saith, be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect, and be you Merciful as he is, and as he is so are we in this world. &c.

I Reply, whether it be G. Fox his Ignorance of the difference between Quality and Equality, or whether it be his flinty Impudence, The Quakers challenge an equality with God.or both, sure I am there is an horrible, monstrous Brat of hellish Blasphemy hatcht amongst them, viz. that poor dust and ashes may not only (by infinite Grace) be like the King of Glory in Holiness, &c. but he may be (and the Quakers are) cheek by joll with him as great a King, Prince and Monarch as he, equal p. 227in Power, Wisdome, Goodness, Iustice, Holiness, Mercy, and all these Eternal, Infinite and Incomprehensible.

G. Fox would not endure this in his own stinking Dignity and Preheminence: for although he suffer his Inferiour and petty Saints to be like him in (his pretended Holiness, Goodness, &c.) yet he is so great a Diotrephes, and so jealous of his Crown, that Humph. Norton himself must not dare to touch that simple Bable, but himself and blind followers must all adore the Godhead, and [150] none must dare to be equal; or Corrival with him.

Unto this I adde, Pag. 248. where G. Fox. brings in an unnamed Author saying. To say that God is substantially in man, and essentially one with him, can be no other but the Man of Sin, the Devil himself hath transformed himself into an Angel of Light, and if it were possible would deceive the very Elect. G. Fox. Answers, That God will dwell in man, and the Saints had unity with the Father and the Son &c.

In which Answer it is plain, 1. That G. Fox maintains that the Godhead is essentially and substantially in man.

2. That his Proof is only some Mystical and figurative Expression, as viz. of Gods dwelling in Man, and walking in man, &c. whence he impiously & ignorantly confounds that relative union by believing in the Son of God, into an Essential or Union of Beings with the eternal Creator himself: a Union of finite and temporal shadowes, with the most Infinite and Eternal Creator; of visible and vanishing and foolish dust, with the invisible p. 228immortal and only wise God, which no truly humble Soul can but tremble to hear and think of.

It is clear in these Passages,The Quakess make themselves Fa…her, Son & Holy Spirit 1. That the Quakers make themselves Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

2. They make no other work of Redemption on Iustification, &c. but what is wrought in their spirits, minds and fancyes, called within them.

3. They make no other state of Heaven, Resurrection, Iudgment or Life to come, then is in them and their Bodyes at present.

Now concerning their bold and blasphemous ascending into the Throne of God we shall hear a little more in G. Fox making no Distinction between the Father and the Son, with that known Heretick Sabellius. and 2. In his making no distinction between Christ Jesus himself, and his Saints or Believers in him.

In Pag. 246. He brings in Christopher Wade saying, God the Father never took upon him humane Nature.Christ. Wade G F. answers, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself And art ignorant of the great mystery, God manifest in the slesh; and his name is called the everlasting Father. As for the word Humane, which is from the ground, it comes from thy own Knowledge which is Earthly, And Christ took upon him the seed of Abraham and David according to the slesh, and this is Scripture-Language.

151] I reply,H. Nortou more plain then G F. in the former part of this Narrative I have shewn how simple & irrational G. F. his clamour is against that word Humane, and that the bottome is their impious, unchristian and hypocritical denying of Christ Jesus to be a man, one p. 229individual person as every man is: therefore Humph. Norton (G. Fox his Corrival) is more plain and down right, saying, is not Christ God, and is not God a Spirit, and chiding us for gazing after a man, &c.

I ad to the former page 293. where G. Fox brings in one Fergison,Fergison. saying, that Christ and the Father and the Spirit are not one, but are distinct, &c.

G. Fox answers,G F against the mystery of Father Son and Spirit this is a denying of Christs Doctrine, who saith, I and my Father are one: and the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and the Son: and he was conceived by the Holy Ghost, and they are all one and not distinct, but one in unity: that which comes out from him leads the Saints into all Truth that ever was given them from the Spirit of truth, and so up unto God the Father of truth, and so goes back again from whence it came.

Again the same Author saith, it is Blasphemy to say the Son is not distinct from the Father, &c.

G. Fox Answers, the Father and the Son are one, the Father in the Son, and the Son in the Father: so that which is in him is not distinct from him, and they Blaspheme which say, the Son is not in the Father, and deny Christs Doctrine.

I reply,The Quak blasphemyes as to the most holy Spirit G. Fox all along his Book calls that blasphemy which the most holy and eternal Lord calls heavenly Truth. He hath like some Witches and other notorious wretches so inur'd himself to poyson, that it is all one to him to swallow down the most sensual and sensless Dreames, even concerning the fearfull mysteryes of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, when the holy Scripture tels us concerning these Mysteryes, that in this life we know but in part, as through a glass darkly &c.

p. 2302. For his Proof, it is the Childs song in the streets, they are one and therfore not distinct: I fear he knows, but will not know the nature of several respects and accounts, viz. that in one respect Christ Iesus saith, I and my Father are one, and in another respect my Father is greater then I; thus in one sence a Father is one with his Children, an Husband with his Wife, a Captain with his Souldiers, a Skipper with his Sea-men, a King with his Subjects. And yet in another respect, the Son is not the Father, the Wife is [152] not the Husband, the Master is not his Servants, the Captain is not his Souldiers, the Master is not his Sea-men, and the King is not his subjects.

And thus though GF. and MF. be one in mariage, and one in a spirit of notorious railing, yet she her self will not say but she is the Woman and he is the Man, Tee Quak…rs Chaos & babel.she the wife and he the husband, and this Distinction God in Nature the Law of our Countrey and all Nations will force them (will they, nill they) to acknowledge: otherwise (like the man possessed in the Gospel) I fear no Chains of Humility nor Modesty would hold them from throwing off all Chains of Conscience, and from flinging all upon heaps of confusion without all due respective respects and distinctions.

There are four great points of the Christian Belief:The Quak. dig up the root of al Christianity in the 4 great Doctrines thereof.

1. The Doctrine of the Father, Son and Spirit, and these they will not distinguish but make all one, and all to be in man.

p. 2312. The Doctrine of the Fall, Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, &c. and these are all in man by their Tenents.

3. The Doctrine of the Church, the Officers, Baptisme, the Lords Supper, and these (say they) are all invisible, and within man.

4. The Resurrect on, eternal Judgement, Eternal Life. Heaven and Hell, Angels, Devils, & these their Professions and Printings proclaim to be in Man also: yea, so within him that they are only within him, and that without11Interline "man" R. W. Ms. Ann. there is no God, no Christ, no Heaven nor hell, &c.

In Page 38. G. Fox brings in Tho. Collier,Tho Collier saying [The Kingdome is not come, nor the refreshing from the Spirit of the Lord.

G. F. Answers, which shews they are unconverted, gadding here and there,: And Christ tells them the Kingdome was in them. And they that are not turned to the Light which comes from Christ the Refresher whereby refreshing might come, and so are not come to Repentance yet.

Reply, Who sees not that G. F. speaks not here of the Kingdome of Christ (so often promised in the future and to come, and the time of refreshing, Act. 3.) but that he cuts off all future hopes and expectations to come, and appropriates aud confines and fixeth, and stakes down all to the present moment of this vanishing life, and to what is (in this moment) in the minds of Men and Women?

153] The Holy Scripture tells us, and Experience p. 232tells us that Hypocrites have no solid peace and joy here,The Quak. hold no Heaven nor Hell to come nor solid hope of joy or glory to come: and yet (to still the deen and clamour of Conscience) abhorring the thought of a judgement and reckoning to come, they foolishly and atheistically please themselves with a childish Dream of no Heaven nor refreshing, no Hell nor torment but what is now within us.

Pag. 101 he brings in Iohn Clapham, saying [To witness Heaven,John Clapham and Hell, and Resurrection within is the Mystery of iniquity.] G. Fox Answers, [which shews thou never knew Heaven in thy self nor hell there, nor Christ the Resurrection and the Life, which they are blessed that are made partakers of the first Resurrection, on them the second Death shall have no power, and the Scriptures do witness Heaven within, and if Christ that was offered up, the Resurrection and the life be not within thee thou art a Reprobate]

I Reply, If G. Fox would speak of Heaven, and Angels, and Hell, and Devils, and of the Resurrection and Life to come, by way of allusion and similitude, or by way of first Fruits or Tast of them, he might profitably do it, but to speak of them in opposition to a rising again, an Heaven, an Hell, &c. to come, what is it?

I say, what is it but to proclaim their Revolt from, and their Rebellion against all the Christian Faith and Religion, and their wonderful hardening against whatever is yet to come, either here or in the eternal State approaching?

Pag. 214. He brings in some (nameless, saying, [To say Heaven and Glory is in man, which was before p. 233man was, they are sottish and blinde.] He Answers, [There's none have a Glory and a Heaven but within them, which was before man had a Being.]

Unto this I adde, Thomas Pollard saying,The Pollard for a perfection of Glory to be attained to on this side the Grave, I utterly deny.]

G. Fox Answereth [Where Glory is (in the least degree) it is in perfection,The epicurian Philosophers & the Quakers one Sect. and who have not Glory, and doth …ot attain to Glory on this side the Grave they are in a sad condition: for the Saints rejoyce with joy unspeakable and full of Glory, &c.]

I Reply, as the Swinish Epicures and Dives's of this World, what ever they formally and loosely profess) have no solid hope of peace and joy to come after this life, and therefore (like B…uit Beasts) practically confess it saying, (in their hearts and Life) [154] let us eat and drink for to morrow we shall dye: so do this cynical and doggid kind of Philosophers (the Quakers) profess plainly (though some would cover it) no hopes of a rising of the Body but what they have here, no hopes of a Heaven but what they have here, no hell but what they (in their minds) have past through: no Judgement but what (as Saints) they are now executing.

I know that some of the Quakers will not believe that G. Fox and others of them deny the Resurrection, &c. but (if they will not willingly fish11Change to "err."R. W. Ms. Ann.) let them read and consider these my Quotations from G. Fox, Ed. Burrowes and Iohn Stubs their Book in Folio, and let them also know that whatever they profess against this that I have said, p. 234that is but horrible Hypocrisie and Deceit, for they would not in all our Disputations depart one hair from those horrible and monstrous Blasphemies, and bruitish Reasonings in G. Fox and Edward Burrowes.The 9th Position proved

We came to the ninth Proposal, the second in order to be debated at Providence, viz [all that the Quakers Religion requires externally and internally to make Converts or Proselytes, amounts to no more then what a Reprobate may easily attain to and perform.]

I did not (the Father of Spirits is my holy witness) sling this in as a Firebrand of Reprobation against either Teachers or Followers called Quakers: it is true they do so against all that ever were not or are not or shall not be in their Opinion, but my hope is, that many amongst these misled and wandring Souls may come to Abrahams Bosome, &c. yet this I assert, that thousands and ten thousands may be of their Religion, and may have gotten all that their Religion requires or performs, yea, all that their Principles call for outwardly or inwardly, and yet not be accepted but rejected from the holy and gracious presence of God.

I told them that I had this notion from a man famous in his day (Mr. W. Perkins) who having been a deboist young man in Cambridge after the call of God to him he proved famous in Preaching and Writing,M…. Perkins saying of the Papists and mine of the Quakers. and (with a lame Club hand) he wrote admirably against the Papists, and maintained that all Popery preacht to the making of Converts or Proselytes amounted to no more then what Reprobates may easily attain unto.

I say the same of common Protestants, and of the p. 235Quakers, they may have a great measure of sorrow for sin: great resolu- [155] tions, great Reformations, great Rejoycings, great and wonderful performances endure great persecutions, endure burning of the Body in the Flames, and yet be far from the true Protestant Religion either in the true Doctrine and Principles, or in the true life and practice of it.

For the Foundation both of the Papists and Quakers Faith is laid upon the Sand of Rotten Nature which they (both) only adorn and trim as the dead Carcasses and Coffins with Roses and Lillies and other Flowers and Garlands, Neither Papists nor Quak skil …ow to pay Gods justicetheir own penances satisfactions, Alms, Prayers, Fastings, Suffrings, which are but Womens filthy Clouts, and Dung of Men and Beasts put into the ballance of Gods infinite Justice, instead of the infinite Righteousness and Satisfaction of the Son of God: poor Souls, they know not that the whole Creation (visible and invisible, seen and unseen, known and unknown, cannot reach Gods most holy and inconceivable justice, for the least evil word or thought. Neither of these (nor millions of Protestants, much less millions of millions in one evil word or thought, then in all the sorrows and calamities felt in this life, or justly feared in the li…e a coming.

With the Quakers 'tis known, that if a notorious Drunkard,The Character of a Quaker &c be convinced, and come to hearken to a Spirit within him, to say, Thou and Thee, and think himself equal and above all his former Superiours, &c. he is Justified, he is Sanctified, and so p. 236Holy that he cannot sin in Thoughts,11Interline "or." R. W. Ms. Ann. Words, and from this high Mount looks down on all others (especially if opposite) as Pharisees, Publicans, Cains, &c. Thus they pretend Repentance, Faith, and a change of heart because they have changed their talk, their Garments, &c. But,

1. I told them that true Repentance lay in a discovery of sin as sin, as greater than the greatest filthiness in the world: no poverty, no shame, no loss like unto it, &c.

2, In an utter inability to contribute one mite,What true turning to God is. either from self,, or from the whole Creation toward satisfaction to infinite Majesty and Justice for the least evil thought or imagination.

3. That as blessed Iohn Bradford said to God: Lord thou art Heaven, I am Hell, viz. that in the best natural Soul in the World, there is nothing but a Kennil, an Hogstie, a den of Atheisme, Murther, Theft, Fornication, Adultery, and all kinde of Wickedness.

156] 4. That I have not so much in me as to desire Deliverance, nor to be sensible of any need of it.

5. That it is only mercy and rich free Grace that worketh in me or any Soul a Sence of my Condition a Sence of Justice a Sence of Mercy.Iacobs Ladder of true Christianity.

6. That it is Mercy only worketh a willingness, a new desire, new Affections towards my Maker, towards my Ransomer, who paid his Bloud, his Heart-Bloud, the Bloud of God to ransome and redeem me.

7. That in this work, Mercy not only worketh p. 237a Sence, a thirst after Pardon and Peace with my Maker, but also after a Conformity and Likeness unto God.

8. Because I cannot reach this, the Mercy and Pitty of God worketh in my Soul a longing after God, and after the turning of the whole Soul unto God, and after those seven Evidences of true Repentance, 2. Cor. 7.

9. This is in true Christian Repentance and turning of the whole Soul unto God, viz. to receive every thought, every motion, every desire upon the account of Mercy and Pitty, as ever poor Dog received Crum or Bone under the Table.

Much of this I spake publickly, as also that no Papist nor Quaker by their grounds could get up this Iacobs Ladder, much less upon those higher grounds and steps of casting off Self, of doing all purely for God, and in Gods eye: of meekness and Mercy to other poor drowning Soules, of pure Love to God for Himself for his Holiness, The Quakers …nd most mens ShipwrackMercy, Goodness, yea for his Iustice: of quiet and patient and thankfull resting in his holy Pleasure, whatever he take from us or bring upon us.

I said and say, that neither the teachings of the Papists or Quakers will help them to get up one Step of this heavenly Ladder; for by the utmost strength and activity of Nature no man can advance and climbe higher then to love God and Christ and Heaven for it Self, and Self-ends, which is no more but Flattering of God, base and dog-like Fawning and Hypocrisie.

I cannot call to mind ought that was opposed by p. 238my Antagonists against these Considerations:The Quakers Min…sters and …heir Plea. but Iohn Stubs said, Dost thou count our Religion an easie Religion, for my part said he, we have not found it so easie to forsake all the glory and pleasure of this world, to forsake wife and children &c. to goe about the work of the Lord in strange Countreys, &c.

157] And W. E. said thou sayest our Religion is an easie Religion: For my part said he I have not found it so,A close fight as to Religion I have not found it so easie to forsake all the glory and honour and pleasures of this World, and to expose our selves to hardships, to forsake our Wives and Children, Friends and Relations, and to goe about in strange Countreys &c. And W. E. further said in that thou saist our Religion is an easie Religion, it is a plain evidence that thou that talkest so much of Religion, and of the Religion of the Quakers thou yet never knewest what Religion is, with more to this effect: and they (according to their wild spirit) insisted vehemently on the wronge which I did them, and the People called Quakers: and that as for themselves they were but a few, but the people called Quakers were a great Body: they were many thousands all over England, they were many thousands in London, as also in Barbadoes, and New-England and Virginia, and other places.

I replyed, that my time would not give me leave as they knew, to say much to their greatness and number,The easiness of the Quakers Religion yet I said their Religion like the Papists, was easie and agreeable with Nature, they had the wind and tyde of natural corruption to joyn with their spirit, which knew this well enough.

p. 2391. It was easie to perswade the Quakers to change one fowle Spirit and Devil for an other,One Devil changed for another, yea sometimes one for seven a Devil more gross and ugly, for a Devil more refined painted and guilded: their pride in Cloathes and fantastical Fshions, to pride in self conceit and fantastical Opinions, their Drunkenness and Gluttony, with Wine and Flesh to Intoxications, with high and proud Vapours: How many millions travel on the broad way to Destruction, and yet prate of a strict and narrow Path? What wonderfull hardships doe both Turks and Papists endure in their religious Pennances? How doe they macerate and whip themselves, even till the bloud of their tender Women hath streamed down upon the ground from them? Yea how zealously (in the cause of their Religion) have the very Iewes themselves cast away their Lives, as Spain and Portugal can witness.

Besides, I told them it was a poor lame thing to talk of numbers when the Council of the only Wise was so clearly revealed concerning his Little Flock, opposed to the vast and monstrous Herds both of civiliz'd and wild Nations.

158] I put them in mind of the innumerable multitudes that followed after that stupendous Cheater Mahomet, The Quakers simple boast of numberseven thirteen parts of the world, divided into thirty, as very knowing Cosmographers or Describers of the World have computed. And if so be that the Pope, and Church of Rome be the eight Head, the great Whore that sits upon many Waters, Kingdomes and Nations, what a poor Slut is the Quakers Fancy compar'd with the Baals Priests, p. 240the Romish Proselites; the Beast whome the whole world wonders after?

3. Again it is to me and may be to all men, wonderfull that since the Religion of the Quakers is so easie &c. that ten thousands more of people in old and new England, Scotland, Ireland and other parts, have not lifted themselves under this new Mahomet, pretending so much from the Dove from Heaven as Mahomet did.

Tis true G. Fox and Foxians, The carnal weaponspretend the two horns of the Lamb, and that their weapons are not Iehues nor Baals Priests, but that they have forsaken all Carnal Weapons: but this I shall shew to be an horrible Lye when I come to the last Position.

The Devil and the Papists and the Quakers know that the Quakers only want a Sword to subdue as many Proselites as either Mahomet or the Pope hath done. The Quakers some prate subtilly, others childishly against Carnal Weapons, Carnal Weapons &c. but I shall shew (if God please) in my 14th. and last Position, what a Devil of Pretence this is.

At present the Devil knowes they want but a Sword (not Hearts nor Hands nor Principles) whereby to subdue as ma…y Proselytes as the Pope or Mahomet hath, and literally and materially thrash the Mountains with Flails of iron, and make the Nations turn (in an easie Hypocrisie and Dissimulation) Dissembling Quakers. I wonder and adore the Councels of the Eternal, that any of these three should be Cheated by this spirit.

First, Any of those truely fearing God; for their Principles spirit and practices being so notoriously p. 241opposite to the meek and patient Spirit of true Purity and Holiness, The Quakers Spirit far from purity and Holiness.and evidencing them to be lead by a dumb and dogged Spirit. 1. Their high and shameless Pride and Vapouring is notoriously known, of which in the next Position. 2. Their mouth full of Cursing and Railing above any or all that profess to march under the Christian Name and 159] Colours. 3. They spit not out their Venome so fiercely against any as against the most conscientious Preachers and Professor of the Protestant Faith, as appears all along in this railing of Fox in Folio against them.

4. They easily fall in with openly profane and ungodly persons, and with carnal and luke-warm Laodiceans, The Spight og the Quakers Spiritwho can swim with the tyde, sail with every wind. If they can but say Thee and Thou &c.

5. It is wonderfull how their spirit (professing to be Protestants) can so wickedly strike in with the bloudy spirit of the Papists, against the Witnesses and Martyrs of Jesus, compiled by that heavenly I. Fox. in the Book of Martyrs which this bloudy spirit (in Iames Purnels Watcher) upbraidingly calls [Your Record] as if it were none of theirs, nor the bloudy Papists, against whose bloudy practises under their Popes, and the old proud Romans, the Romane Gods and Emperours, that heavenly Book shews how those heavenly Martyrs or Witnesses over came by the Bloud of the Lamb, the word of their Testimony, and not loving of their Lives unto the Death.

6. That most Savage and worse then Indian Spirit of their stripping their women stark naked, p. 242and so to enter into the streets and Assemblyes of men and youths, which Piety Christianity and common Womanhood and Modesty abhor to think of.

Secondly. As I wonder how any godly Soul, so how any Learned Soul, who hath studied the primitive Copyes of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures, The ignorance of the Quakerscan yoke with such rude Bablings and Repetitions of simple ignorant Praters. Tis true the Lord Jesus and his Embassadors were not all traind up as Paul was at the feet of Gamaleel, yet had they before the whole World the miraculous effusions of Fiery Tongues, and heavenly Oyl upon them, which these poor Simpletons ridiculously like Puppets in a Shew pretend too. Beside, the Commons among the first Christians were as learned if not more then our primest Academians, the Hebrew being their Mother Tongue, and the Greek and Latine familiar, by the Greek and Romane Conquests over them, all which Helps the most of the Leaders of the Quakers want, only pretending to understand supernatural and miraculously (in a trice and immediately) what is to be gotten by honest and faithful labour and industry, the holy will and mind of God from the true Original Copies.

160] Thirdly, I do admire that any sober, modest Woman (made so by nature, and much more by Grace (should ever dare to come into their Assemblies:The abominable Spirit of the Quakers nakedness it is certain that the Ranters is a Sister or Daughter of them: though they quarrel, and fight, and scratch one the other: The Ranters more plainly (according to their Principles make the Nakedness of Men and Women, a part of worship unto p. 243God, unto which they say they are restored by Christ Iesus the second Adam. This Adamites Fowle spirit is no New-come spirit, I have know nit almost sixty year, and what a motion was made and urged by some (whome I can name) for Plantations in warmer Countreyes, where they might practice that Ordinance of God viz, Of Nakedness of men and women in Gods worship.

These our Adamites are led by a more Savage and Barbarous, and Monstrous Spirit, the which under the vizird and mantle of Religion deceives them, and of being a sign to others: And this very bruitish practise have kept some Women (too much inclin'd to them) from falling into their filthy puddle, and of returning some which were left by Gods Justice to go too far amongst them sure we are the holy spirit of God (all along) abhors the appearance of uncleanness,Quakers driven on by the old Spirit of the Adamites and commands the vailings of Women (especially in Christian Meetings)

I have been too long upon the easiness of their Religion, and of the agreement of it with corrupt and rotten Nature which slides into it as easily as Brooks and Rivers slide and run down into the Ocean.

There be two other causes of falling into false Religions or ways of worshipping God.

1. Hope of Gain, which was the Sechemites Bait: (the sweet Musick propounded by Nebuchadnezzar.) &c.

2. The fiery Furnace, &c.

These moderate times have not driven the Quakers to bow down to their Spirit for fear of persecution, p. 244and the fiery Furnace but Sathan knew well enough that the Corruption of Nature,The rising of the Quakers and the hope of Gain and Glory would cheat to purpose (as all may see it hath done:) Sathan knows that some have a moving and travelling Spirit, and cannot rest in a sedentary or quiet life:) Some are of a rising, aspiring Spirit (though neither from Birth nor Breeding, nor abilities) and therefore cry down all Honour or respect to be given to any (but themselves) some are false and [161] rotten in their Profession, and ready to fall and tumble when any strange wind of Temptation blowes upon them.

7. Some may be Sincere and upright to God in the Root, but Weak, and not so rooted in the Holy Scriptures, as the Disciples themselves, who wondered for a time what the Rising from the dead should mean,Diverse Sorts suffered by God to fall into the Quak Ditch. and had need of their Lord and Masters Take heed and beware of the Leaven of the Scribes, and Pharisees, and Sadduces, &c. Some truly fear God, but have neglected the purity and chastity of Gods holy Worship, and have reserved in a weak Conscience a liberty of playing the Whore against a jealous God and Husband.

But generally they that are taken by the Quakers Bait are such as never loved Christ Iesus in Sincerity as the Scripture speaketh, neither within nor without, and therefore suckt in Nicolds and Nailors, and Foxes dreames of a Christ, within them opposite to Christ without:But especially for Male and Female Protestants. of a Christ a Light a Spirit within, which had no Humane Body, or if he were humane, or a man they know not now what is become of him.

p. 245The Lord Iesus tels us that some will plead with him at the last day, that they have heard him Preach, that they have been at his Table, that they have prophesied themselves, cast out Devils in his Name, and in his Name done many Wonderfull things: should not this make every Soul that calls it self Christian, startle and look about them, especially when they hear Christ Jesus say, depart from me I know you not ye workers of Iniquity.

I told the Quakers that their Theora Iohn pretended to write after the Spirits Dictate, a volume in Hebrew, Greek, Latine, Arminiack, &c. which he confessed he understood not: what if it should please Gods infinite Wisdom, to suffer the Quakers or others to speak and understand all Languages, to work great Miracles, yet if they come under the Note Christ gives them, of Workers of Iniquity, they fulfill the termes of my Position, and prove but False and Reprobate.

This is the true and infallible distinguishing Character between the true Legitimate and the Bastard and false Christian: The great distinguishing Character of true and false PretendersThe soul of the True is broken for Sin, as Sin, as opposite to God, as filthy in his eye: The soul of the False is broken for Sin as bringing temporal Loss or shame, or pain, and beside temporal, Eternal. The soul of the true, is broke off from Sin, from the least Sin, [162 from the appearances of sin from the occasions of Sin, from the thought of Sin as worse then all the Afflictions of this life, or the Torments of Hell to come. The soul of the False, hath secret Friendship and Correspondence with Iniquity (as Church-Papists p. 246with Popery &c) in the secret chambers and Closets of the heart, at which they willingly wink, and to find it (when they are put to it, yea and seem to doe it) they are willingly remiss and negligent.

Hence it was a famous Principle of the first New-English Reformers, viz. to be Christianly carefull that their Members gave Christian Evidence, (so far as godly eyes of Charity could reach) of the truth of their Conversion and turning unto God, which for ought I know is not changed by their Successors.

It is dolefully true that many seemingly Elect, prove Reprobate, and many truly Elect fall into many great Sins and Sorrows. How black and dolefull then is their Condition (such as the Papists the Quakers and others) whose Religion Principles and Practices, arise no higher then what a Reprobate may attain unto.

We came to the tenth Position, The 3d Position debated at Providence.(the third in order to be discussed at Providence) which they read out of their paper, viz. That the Popes of Rome do not swel with; and exercise a greater pride then the Quakers have exprest, and would aspire unto, although many truly humble Souls may be captivated amongst them.

I have here two mighty Fields to expatiate and walk in,Two great Competitors the Popes and Foxians. viz. The pride of Christ Iesus his pretended triple-crowned Vicar, and the pride of the new Papists pretending to be Christ himself: of which the holy Spirit speaketh, There is a Generation, oh how lofty are their eyes and their eye lids are lifted up? In publick Discourse I knew I was but to p. 247take a short turn of a quarter of an hour, I am now at more liberty of inserting what I intended, but was forced to abbridge wlth all possible brevity at that time.

I told them there was a pride in outward and external things, in Parentage, in Person, in Beauty, Strength, Wit, Aparrel, Houses, Money, Shipping, Land, Cattle, Offices, Relations, &c. this I now past by: All these (like Diogenes on Platoes carpets) the Quakers say they tread on &c.

There was 2. the devils pride, Spiritual pride the devils prideand the devils Condemnation, a pride in Spiritual Knowledg, spiritual Gifts, spiritual Priviledges and Excellencies: This was the Devils Break-neck, and will be [163] of the Popes and Quakers, and of all that aspire to the Eternal power and Godhead; for God or they must fall to all eternity.

I named then diverse Parallels between the Popes and Quakers, I will now name all I can remember I named, and will name some more at this present,

First, The Popes have exalted themselves above all that is called God, The Popes & Quakers pride comparedabove all Civill powers, Kings and Princes, riding upon their backs, disposing of their Crowns, making them lead their horses, hold their stirrups, kiss their toes, yea lye down under their feet bodyes and souls, and submit their neck to this abominable foot of pride, as the Scripture calls it.

As to the Quakers they know it is not yet time to put on the Lions and the Eagles, but the Sheeps and the Foxes Skin: but no man need question that if God should please to let loose the Quakers spirit p. 248to the full length of its tedder,The Quakers hoast of their number. as he hath done that of the Popes, the spirit of the Quakers would scorn to come behind the pope: For who sees not how at the first, fledging and creeping out of the Shell how they boast and vapour of their numbers? We (said W. E. to me in publick at Newport) are a great People, many thousands in England, many thousands in London, besides Virginia, Barbados, N-England and other places: what would they say and doe if they had the popes Universality, and could boast of the many Waters, Peoples, Nations, Tongues and Multitudes upon which the Whore sitteth?

Beside, W. E. (a man fit to make a Bonefacius or a Hildebrand) Iohn Stubs also though of a more prudent and moderate spirit) was up with the same boasting of their Numbers, and all of them are ready to cry up their Diana whome all Asia and the world worshippeth. But,

2. In their first creeping (like Hercules out of the Cradle,The audncious & impious faecs of the Foxians how doth this Spirit dare the Spirits of Kings, and Keyfars, and Popes themselves (under the pretence of Translations and acceptations of words) to Thou and Thee to the faces of mighty Monarchs? with what Brasen Faces have they addrest the Royal presence of our Gracious Dread Soveraign, without either bowing the knee, or baring the Head (signs of English reverence and civility) and this out of an horrible and lying pretence, that Christs amity (even in Civil things) respecteth no mans person, that they may trample as Gods on all man-kinde, &c.

p. 249164] 3. I can say what mine eyes and ears have seen and heard,Pope Edmond commanding & silencing the Governour viz. our Honoured and Aged Mr. Nicholas Easton, Governour of this Colony under his Majesty, offering to speak once and twice in our late Contests at Newport (and no question would have spoke for the Quakers against me, yet) Pope Edmundson put forth his hand imperiously toward the Governour, saying, Whist, Whist, which whisting and silencing Language if they use to their Friends in Authority, what will they say or Thunder to their Enemies if ever they get up into the Papal Chair?

2. The Pope sits in the Temple of God, A second Paralel between the Pope & Quakersas over the Churches and Consciences of the Christian Name and Worship, giving Canons and Decretals to be observed by all Christian People on peril of loss of Earth and Heaven, &c.

And do not their11"these" R. W. Ms. Ann. new Popes (not regarding as the Apostles and Bereans the Holy Scripture) lay on the common Quakers Consciences and Congregations their Decrees? tis true G. Fox in his Book in Folio gives the immediate Spirit of Infallibility to all his Saints: yet must they (in a ridiculous contradiction) sit still possest with a Dumb Devil, except some He or She Apostle come amongst them, who send word of their coming to call the Country in many dayes before, and seem to have a Command of their Diabolical Spirit more then other Quakers have, though they (as I said before) in a ridiculous Contradiction) ascribe it unto all their Saints and Quakers.

p. 250Thus did Humphrey Norton (a Pope) in his day in these parts) overtopping and rating W. Brand at Newport, The Pope and Quakers usurp over the Souls of all menhe confirmed the Decree for the weekly Meetings not only on the first dayes, but on the week dayes at Newport and Providence: he ordered their sitting and departing Dumb, unless a He or She Apostle came amongst them, he left in writing (which I can produce) an overthrow of all civil Order and Government except in the hands of his Saints, entituling his Paper thus, the Saints Law and the Sinners Law as G. Fox. his decree under the title of the Law.

G. Fox succeeds (as Pope) Humph. Humph Norton & G Fox compared.Norton in these parts, and being angry with his Predecessour (as some Popes have been) he lets loose the Dumb Devil and gives Liberty to all to speak as the Spirit gives them utterance: this shews what a lying Spirit of Unity they boast of (such an one was in Nailors business) though they most proudly deny Unity to all but to themselves, as [165] the Papists do: G. Fox. also gave forth his Decree of loosing them from that bruitish and doggid Behaviour which W. Brand and Humphrey Norton left them in, and by Word and Example commanded them to be more sociable and manlike, so that many of them will speak in Salutations, and shew some reverence by bowing the Heads,G F. a subtler Fox then. Hum. Norton. or uncovering it, as Fox himself did after his Sermon at Providence, uncovering his Head and bowing to the People, and passing through the midst of them (his Hat in his hand) with much respect and civility. And he blames those (as I hear) which violently and madly p. 251have flung themselves upon unnecessary temptations and dangers: whence follows (in the eyes of the whole World) that either the latter or the former Spirit was not Gods, and perfect, and the Spirit of Unity of which they childishly so crake and vapour, as the chiefest Flower in their Crown of Pride.

3. The Pope lifts up himself as God over the Holy Scriptures:A third parallel between the Pope & Quak. He is the sole Judge and Interpreter of them, and the sole decider of all controversies in Religion about the expounding of them: yea, he hath power to dispence with Peter and Paul, &c. yea, what Christ and God can do that gave forth Scripture, that can the Pope their Lieutenant do: hence all this Dispensations of Oaths, of Marriages, &c.

Do not the Quakers also tread this Holy Scripture, this inestimable Jewel of Gods Writing and Book under their proud feet,Both Papists & Qukers their Pride above the Scriptures as formerly I noted upon the fourth Position of their not owning the Holy Scripture? Do they not (upon the point) say that they made, they wrote and gave out the Holy Scripture? and though in our late Conference they said they would be tryed by the Scriptures, yet (as the Papists) they admit no Interpreter but themselves, for the Spirit within them they say gave forth the Scripture, and is above the Scripture, and both they and the Papists have said that there would be no losse if they were gone out of the World, for the Papists say their Traditions, and their infallible Spirit would supply the loss: and the Quakers say the Scriptures is within them (in effect) they say p. 252that all that they do and say is Scripture: so far are both Papists & Quakers from a Christian and Candid Profession of being tried by the Holy Scripture: that they most Horribly and most Hypocritically trample it under their proud feet.

166] 4. These Romanists or Proud ones (as the Hebrew signifies) both Papists & Quakers most insultingly lift up themselves against the Servants and Children of God all the world over that bow not down to their Images:The Pope aad Quakers horrible revilers Slanderours & cursers of the Righteous be a Soul never so humble and penitent, never so holy and mortified, believe the Scriptures, &c. and give his life for the truth of of them, yet he is damned if he believes not the Pope to be the head of the Church: and say not the Quakers the same of all that believe not in their pretended Lights: your Repentance is nothing, your Holiness nothing, your Zeal, Praying, Preaching, Fasting, Suffrings nothing: and they think they have reason to say so, because you believe not in the true Christ, and therefore you are in Cains Nature, in the Satanical Delusion, Reprobates, &c. so that all the blessed Souls under the Alter calling for vengeance against the shedders of their blood the Roman Emperour, or since the Roman Popes, they are all branded with a black cole of damned Souls and Reprobates by G. Fox, because they professed, preacht and died for a Christ without them though that Christ without them dwelt in their hearts (Ephes. 3.) by believing and for his sake they loved not their lives to the Death.

I told them that the Pope and they were one in the great point of the Infallibility:The 5. parallel they both pretended p. 253the Spirit of God as did the Apostles, &c. but I have proved their pretence is as true as that of Apollo's Worshippers, by whose Priests the Devil gave Oracles (Extripode) from their threefold stool,The infallibility of the Popes and Quakers Oracles and that so subtilly and cunningly that whatever Oracle or Voice it was, and whatever the event were yet the Devil would save his own: Apollo should be the true God of Wisdome, and Apollo's Priests true Prophets.

At last when Christ came Apollo being consulted and failing to give answer, the Devil was forced to answer that there was an Hebrew Childe borne that stopt his mouth: I am sure this Hebrew Childe (the true Lord Jesus Christ) hath often also stopt the mouthes (in one sense) of Pope & Quakers, for their Predictions have not come to pass, (though some which the Devil could guess at) have: and he will shortly stop their mouths forever.

It was truely said of (that long eighteen years hatching) Devilish Junto of Trent, The Holy Spirit in a Cloakbag at the Councel at Trentthat the Holy Ghost, (that is the Popes Holy Ghost) came every week from the Pope at Rome, &c. to his Legates at Trent, in a Cloak-bag: and do not G. Fox his Books [167] and all their writings declare for their corrivality and competition with the Pope for this their pretended Holy Ghost:The Pope and Quak the two great pretenders and corrivals for the pretended Holy Ghost do they not upbraid all other Ministers and People for being out of the infallible Spirit: Do they not say their Ministers and their Commissions are invisible because immediate and infallible? do they not assigne this to be the cause of all the Sects and Divisions among the Protestants, because they have not the infallible Spirit as the Quakers have?

p. 254Here (as I remember) Iohn Stubs stood up and alleadged that place in 1 Iohn 4. Hereby we know that we dwell in him, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

And again, you have the unction and know all things. And W. Edmondson boastingly, and proudly said, that they had the same immediate and infallible Spirit which the Apostles had, and that Iohn & Peter were but their elder Brethren.

Unto which I answer,The Quak pretending to be Apostles Peter I know, and Iohn I know, but who are you? For 1. They were Eye-Witnesses of the Lord Jesus his Life and Death and Resurrection. 2. They were immediately endowed with fiery Tongues, and fiery hands to preach in all Languages, and to pen from Gods mouth his holy word and Pleasure and to work real Miracles, not metaphorical ones only (as G. Fox said at Providence the Quakers did,F F his Counterfeit mirrcles that is open the eyes of the Blind by Conversion &c.) I added that it might please the infinite Wisdom of God to send higher Pretenders to Apostleship then the Quakers, who should speak all Tongues 11Interline "and." R. W. Ms. Ann.doe Miracles: But as Gods Servants had a Rule Isa. 8. the written Law and Testimony, and were not to believe their Dreames though they came to pass, Deut. 13. So have Gods Servants now, viz. The Doctrine of Christ Iesus both concerning Faith and Order, and to strive earnestly for the Faith once delivered.

The Pope like Baalam sayes,A 6 Parallel between the Pope & the Quak. he is the Mouth of God: whome he blesseth, they are blessed, and whom he curseth &c. therefore sendeth he his p. 255Curses like Thunderbolts, yea among Kings & Kingdomes in other Nations, and our own as K. Henery 8th. K. Edward. 6th. Queen Elizabeth experimented &c. and is there any People bearing the name Christian, so like the pope their Father as these, whose Mouth (saith David) is full of Cursing and Bitterness, like Floods out of the Dragons Mouth, and fire-brands arrowes and Death crying out against the most Humble and Con- [168] scientious Cain, Saul, Iudas, Viper, Serpent, Reprobate Dragon, Devil (yea one of their Shee-Apostles, Devil, Devil, Devil, all at once to one that opposed her amongst us) and such foul stinking exprefsions (like the Quakers in London) about the Dung of Mankinde, that modesty especially the bashfulness and modesty of Women would have been far from.

A seventh is that great point of horrible Pride in both Pope & Quakers, A 7 parallel between the Pope and Quakersexalting the Dung and Dirt of their own Qualifications, Excellencies, Graces, Labours, Fastings, Satisfactions, Believings, Suffering as a price and satisfaction to Gods Justice, as a Merit or Desert for the pardon of their sin, for though they both Sophistically and Hypocritically mention the Blood of Christ; yet they count the business of this Christ (as the Pope said) but a Fable, and indeed and truth through the Pride of their high spirits they think God is beholding to them: I have spoken to this already,8 Parallel as to the sinless condition of the Quakers and of that devilish Pride of their being without sin: yet in this Doctrine of perfection the Quakers exceed the Doctrine of the Papists: for generally the popes attribute this purity but to some of their rare Saints. And 2. Generally the Popes themselves confess themselves p. 256to be sinners. 3. They give respect and civill honour to all estates, although in Spirituals and Civills too they overtop them: But the high and lofty Devill of the Quakers pride transcends all this: G. Fox makes all his Saints born of God, that (literally expounded) they cannot commit sin; yea, G. Fox tells us that the Saints (that is his Foxians) are as holy and perfect as God, not only like to God in quality, but in equality also. They have the fulness of the Godhead in them bodily.G F his proud Blasphemy as to God himself That the mystery of godlinefs is God manifest in their flesh! Hence he saith there is no distinction between God and Christ, and the Spirit and themselves. Hence it follows, that they are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (which by Devilish Chymistry) they can prove: and that they are the Three that bare Record in Heaven, and the Three that bare Record in Earth: The Scripture is within them: They made it, and all that they say and do is Scripture, what they say God saith, what they advise God adviseth, what they do God doth, &c.

It is true, this is not believed (no not by some Novices among them but this and more, many of their lying Foul mouths & Books express, which may make a Soul that is truly humble to quake and [169 rend his heart at such Blasphemy, H B the first Perf…ctist in these parts, and most notorious for Imperfections.the first Perfectist in these parts was one H. B. who came from Boston to Providence, who affirmed that what he spake God spake, what counsel he gave God gave, &c. It pleased God to leave him (though a subtle man) to ridiculous Folly amognst us, and at Barbadoes and London since, to worse practices: as commonly God p. 257punisheth such height of Pride even in this present life before Death seize upon them.

I remember while we were declaring their proud Disrespect to all men, Iohn Stubs said, That it was their practice to pay tribute to Caesar, and to give Honour to whome Honour belonged. And I answered to this effect, that it was against their Principles and practices to shew respect to any mans Person in the World. As for tribute they paid none but what necessity and policy forced them to, and notoriously backward here: But they knew that I and G. Fox knew, and all the world might know out of Fox his Writings, that the Quakers are the Higher powers, the Dignityes, the Most High God, The difference amongst the Quakers as to these things.and ought to have all Honour and Tribute paid to them by all the whole Creation. Tis true there seems to be a Change and some relenting and Giving of the Weather in G. Fox his own practice of Courtesie, and others from him: but while they own what G. Fox hath written, and that he writ it with a perfect spirit: I say untill they do make some Recantation or Retractation: or shew the Reasons why they doe not, H. Norton who keeps more plainly to his Principles is to windward of them, and the Foxians do but strip themselves naked to be more derided and scorned as the more notorious Iuglers and Dissemblers.

We came easily (with their Good-will) to the 4th. The 4th of the seven last Positions.Position of the latter seven, which they read out of the Paper (as willing to be out of ther pain) viz, The Religion of the Quakers is more obstructive and Destructive to the Conversion and Salvation of Soules p. 258of People than most of Religions that are at this day extant in the World.

I said for the proof of this it was requisite to take a short view of Religions and Worships in the world. We knew that the Sons of Men were justly divided all the world over into two Sorts,

First,The Indians Religion. The wild and Pagan, whome God hath permitted to run about the world as wild Beasts all this great fourth Part of the World, and in some of the other three.

170] They acknowledge a great supream God and Deity, Maker of all things, yet they acknowledge (as other famous Civilized Nations formerly have done) that there be many other Petty-Gods and Deityes in Heaven and Earth, yea within their own Bodies, yea whatever is extraordinary, excellent or strange to them, they are presently apt to ascribe a Deity unto it, though it be but Beast, Fowle &c. A Deity or higher Power acknowledged by Indians.and say it is a God. It is commonly known that as their garments hang loose about their Bodyes, so hangs their Religion about their Souls: So that (to my knowledge) they are so far from hindring any to come to God, that when they have seen the grave and solemn Worship of the English, they have often said of themselves and their own, that they are all one Dogs in comparison of the English.

The second sort of men are the Civill brought to Cloaths, to Lawes &c. from Barbarisme: these also the infinite Wisdome of God have pleased to leave to variety of wayes of Worshipping the Heavenly Majesty,

p. 259Amongst others we find four most known and eminent,

First, The four chief Religions of the World.The Iewish Worship famous from Gods own appointment by Moses &c. 2. The Turkish, famous for spreading from Mahomet to most of thirteen parts of thirty in the World.

3. The Popish, famous for spreading over Europe and other western parts of the world. 4. The Protestant famous for so wonderfull a Revolt and Seperation from the Popish. All these four profess one God and supream Deity: but they differ in two things, 1. In the Prophet or Meanes by whome God speaks to man; the Iews cry up Moses, the Turks Mahomet, the Papists the Pope, the Protestants Christ Iesus in the Scriptures,

The second great difference is in the Form of Worship, which every one of these four great Partyes practice in various and different wayes as they are perswaded.

Our selves the Protestants are divided into two Partyes,

The first is entituled Episcopal and Presbyterian in Parochyal or Parishional Assemblyes.

The second is Seperate from those National and Parochyal Assemblyes, some more some less, and those are now known to be First, the People called Independants. 2. The people called Baptists.

We that pretend the Christian Name against the Iewes and the [171] Mahumetans, The religious Diff…rences among the Protestantswe mainly differ, 1. In matter of Doctrine, as Repentance, Faith, &c. 2. Of Worship, Discipline &c. And we generally agree, that as the Mahumetan and Iewish p. 260Worship have little in them to tempt a Soul to turn into them compar'd with the Christian, so those Christians that differ each from other in point of Doctrine and Worship both, as the Papists and the Quakers doe to be farther from the truth of the Profession of Christ Iesus, and more obstructive and destructive to the Souls of men then the other partyes; yea and the Papists not so much as the Quakers, who wildly profess all Ordinances and Ministers to be invisible, and yet are hypocritically and ridiculously found to be as visible and open as any.

If the true Foundations of Repentance and Faith be cast down it is in vain to talk of saving of Soules, Fundamental Differences.it is in vain to talk of Worshipping of God. The Quakers (for all their craking of Quaking and Tremhling) their way is more easie of Worshipping God, and of bringing persons to their worship of God, then the way of Iewes or Turks or Papists, who to my knowledge take more paines in Religion then do the common Protestants: I confess they all do but paint and guild over natures old and rotten Posts, only the real Protestants have and profess the greatest care of any in the world for true Faith and Repentance.

The Quakers came not neer that care of N-England (I am sure at first) for the personal true Repentance and Holiness of their Church…s and Congregations: For it is notoriously known, that if persons notoriously Deboist, come but to acknowledge a God and Christ within them, that is in English, The Quakers easie Conversion and Churches, not comparable to the way of N-England.that themselves are God and Christ, and can practice Thou p. 261and Thee, and Cheek by Ioll with all their Betters, and can rail at and curse all that oppose them, and can come and bow down to a dumb Image and Worship without any great business of Contrition and Brokenness and Godly Sorrow, they are enrold and canonized for Saints and Gods &c. they are free from Sin, born of God and cannot sin, they now sit upon the twelve thrones and judge the unbelieving Iews and Gentiles in their heavenly places.

The wound lyes here (as it is with Papists, Arminians, and indeed with all mankind) in the soothing up and flattering of rotten Nature, from whence (from within the Lord Iesus tells us) proceed all the rotten and hellish Speeches and Actions.

172] I told them it was in this case as it was with Kings and Princes, there were two great Enemyes that haunted the Pallaces of Kings and Princes. 1. Traiterous Spyes &c. 2. Traiterous Flatterers.

Just here it was (as I remember) that W. Edmundson stopt me saying,Flatterers of Kings thou hast here been telling us Storyes of Turks and Iewes, but what is that to thy Charge against us? we are none of those that flatter Kings and Princes, we deal plainly with all men.

I said they mistook me: for I did not say they slattered Kings, I used a similitude only, viz. that as Flatterers, &c. of Kings and great men, were their deadliest Foes, so such Religions and Doctrines as most slatter and sooth up our rotten hearts and natures they are most dangerous and destructive to us: I intended to add that the Quakers pretended to be as fine Flower sifted out from the common Protestants, p. 262yea,The whorish Quakers, and whore of Rome. from the Independants & Baptists, that Sathan was too subtle for the subtlest Foxes of them all, for he knowes that by pretence he more easily & dangerously conveys the Poyson of exalting corrupt and cursed nature in the room of true Soul-saving Humiliation.

I did say as the Whore of Rome deceived whole Towns, Cities, Nations and Kingdomes with her glorious Trimmings, and her Golden Cup: so that the Painted Quaker (as a Drunken Whore) should follow the Drunken Whore of Rome) drunk with the blood of Jesus, &c.) for the obtaining of (the smoak of a Tobacco-pipe) the Riches and Honour of this World.

There are two sorts of godly Soules catcht up a while by the Devils Craftiness.

1. Weak and unstable (for there are Children, strong Men, & old Men in Christianity.)

2 The unwatchful and secure.The Devil a roaring Lion The holy wisdome of God discovers in Holy Scripture, what the Devil, that Sathan an old Serpent is, viz. not only a Roaring, but a vigilant Lyon. David (Gods beloved as his Name is) he fails in his managing of Government, therefore the Devil stirs up Ioab and Achitophel to help (the grand Rebel) his Son Absolom: and afterwards Sheba, and all in wonderful Figures, in all Ages, an in this our age and day.

A famous Iesuit prints it, that all the Religion in the World lies in competition between the Iesuits and Puritants, &c. About [173] this time Iohn Stubs told me that they (and I say so do the Iesuites pretend to do) had left the Glory and Pleasure p. 263of this world their Wives and Children, Friends and Relations, to Preach the Everlasting Gospel; For the Woman had been 1260 years 42 months in the wilderness, and she was now come and coming forth, and they were now preaching the everlasting Gospel, and therefore they advised me to make haste and dispatch and not to hinder the Lords work.

I spake what then I thought fit,The Quak pretences to outgo all pretending Preachers and now adde that the Pharisees, the Apostles, the Quakers and Iesuites do compass Sea and Land: but the Pharisees, Iesuites and Quakers will be found at last to be the Apostles Messengers, Heralds, Envoys, Embassadors, and Emissaries of Sathan sent out from Hell to predicate the goodness of rotten nature, hell and damnation, and that false and hellish Gospel (or good news) of poor rotten Natures Righteousness, Satisfaction, Penances, and to the damning of Souls, &c.

The Devil knows that after the witnesses have done their work against Antichrist,True Preachers or messengers and after their slaughters! the Lord Jesus will send abroad his Messengers to other Nations (Iews & Gentiles) and New Ierusalem, or a new vision of peace shall then come down from Heaven among the Sons of men: but for the present he stirs up these Jesuites and Quakers (with brave titles and pretences) like so many Mahomets (under pretence of Diogenes treading on Platoes Carpets) to fish for the smoak of this Worlds Sodome, and no doubt but the Quakers will use the Sword as much as Mahomet or the Iesuites, p. 264under the cloak and colours of love to Jesus and saving of Souls.

I confess that Charity hopes and believes all things, and yet I say, cursed is that charity that puts out the eye of Reason, the eye of Experience, the eye of true affection to Christ Jesus, his Father and his Wife to the Souls of his followers, and the Souls of poor sinners Iews & Gentiles.

As to the saving of Souls,The Earthly & Heavenly Sword it was a Thunder from the heavenly mouth of Christ Jesus. They that take the Sword shall perish by the Sword: as if he should say, the Sword is not a saving but a destroying Tool, in Soul-humbling, and Soul-saving: making worlds of Hypocrites, but not true Protestants, true Christians & Followers of the true Lord Jesus, and of his Father, and of his Holy Spirit.

174] The Spirit say the Quakers, why thats our Weapon! the Sword of the Spirit the Word of God, why thats the word of God Christ Jesus our Weapon: So saith G. Fox and all our Fantasticks out of weakness and madness, not weighing what a person the holy Records describe Christ Jesus to be,A great mystery amongst Papists and Protestants but as foolish Children and Anticks in the Lord Mayors shews, they cry out Christ and the Spirit only for a shew and colour, I know it that the true Lord Jesus his holy Father, and Holy Spirit is as odious both to Iesuits, and most Papists & Quakers as the Devil, yea infinitely more then the Devil himself, as with Gods help I have and shall make it as clear as the Noon dayes Sun.

O you considering Protestants, see you not how the Devil would rob you of that Sword with which p. 265Christ Jesus overcame him [The Holy Scripture] under the colour and cloak of the Spirit in the mouths of the Quakers? A word to the Protestantshow, if the Holy writings must yet live, why he hath Fisher, and Stubs, and Pennington, and Bishop, and others that skill Tongues, and yet own the blockish Spirit of the Quakers: how if you blame the Popish Devil for a Blockhead, he can puff up his Bladders the Iesuites, to a late wonderful swelling of Tongues and Histories, and all kinds of Knowledge, as in Bellarmine and his Associate and Followers and of late in those great Writers Petavius and Morinus.

The eternal Word,The mystical Farmers and Son, and Sun of God the true Lord Jesus will more and more discover who are his true friends, his true Loves (that love Alexander more than the King) that are true Christians, true Iesuites, and that truly love and pity poor Souls: he will discover who are the great Farmers, who having a minde to the Farm themselves consult and say, come, this is the Heir (that is Christ Jesus in his true Messengers) let us kill him: kill him with Tongue, and Pen, and Sword, &c. the Inheritance of Heavenly and Earthly Glory shall then be ours, &c. and to this end only they talk of Souls, &c.

We now descended to the fifth and sorrowful point of suffering which they read,The 5th. of the last 7 positions viz. [That the sufferings of the Quakers are no true evidence of the Truth of their Religion.]

At the reading of this they told me, that although their Sufferings were great in all places whither the Lord had sent them, yet they made not their Suffering an Evidence of the truth of their Religion, & p. 266therefore I might have been better advised then to 175] put this in among the rest of my Lyes and Slanders as not considerable,The suffrings of the Quakers and now not worth the mentioning, &c.

I Answered, that I understood what they said, and I undestood mine own affirmation also; and desired their patience also while I offered my Proofs to two Particulars,

1. That in their Books and Writings &c. they do make their Sufferings a great Evidence to themselves and others of the truth of their Way and Spirit.

2. This their Suffering is not valid as to the proof of their Religion, Way and Spirit to be of God. So then they bid me prove it if I could.

I told them that I could find no Iewes, Pauls and the Quak suffringsno Papists no Protestants, that did so magnifie and so exactly insist upon their Sufferings as the Quakers did. Tis …rue that Paul did more particularize his Sufferings then other Saints in Scripture; but it was also true that they were so exceeding great that Paul seemed a None-Such; but beside that it was upon some great Insultings of the False Apostles against not only himself, but against the Truth of Christ Jesus: neither of which is the Quakers case. Beside, the Quakers Sufferings generally were not to be compar'd with Pauls, and yet they set down such exact accounts of every hour in prison every Stripe in Whipping, The Quak. sufferings in Hystory of G. Bishop recorded.every pound lost: and this published to the world in print, as if it were a Sign hung out with this Inscription, Loe people these are the Evidences of Gods holy Truths, and Gods holy Spirit, of p. 267our Persecutors wickedness, and our Christian Faith and Patience, who for his Truths sake can endure all this. I said it was not rational to think, that men professing such high Wisdome and Conscience, should declare such Lysts and Catalogues of Sufferings (as G. Bishop doth to the world, of the Quakers Sufferings in N. England, in his first and second History) only in a childish Vapour, Ostentation and Vain-Glory, much less in hopes of Reparation or any worldly advantage, either in England old or new, Scotland or Virginia, &c. and therfore Reason perswades that these Sufferings are held forth (as the holy Spirit speaks of the Sufferings of the Thessalonians, 2. Thess. 2.) as a manifest Token of the righteous judgment of God rendering Tribulation to their Persecutors, and Rest to themselves suffering for the Kingdome of God.

As I remember, Iohn Stubs said, they did not boast of their [176] Sufferings, but bare them patiently for the Truths sake which they preached and professed.

I said I did not charge them to say in express terms, We have lost so much outward Gain, Favour, Friendship, Worldly Advantage for the Name of Christ within us, can you say the like for the Christ without you? We have endured Imprisonments, Whippings, &c. have you done the like? only this I say, that as all Religios Iewes, Papists, Protestants &c. are confirmed in their Perswations by their Sufferings, and do predicate them to others as Arguments and Signs of the truth of their Doctrines, and of Gods presence and Assistance with them: so p. 268do the Quakers and that with more Particular and exact Accounts then most of all the rest have done.

I told them, I had observed much to this purpose in G. Fox & E. Burrowes in the Book by me.

They bid me alleadge what I could out of them: E. Burrowes his Epistle quoted.I took up the Book, and they theirs, I directed them to the 12th. Page of Ed. Burrowes his large Epistle to G. Fox his Book in Folio where I read this passage viz. And this we did with no small opposition and Danger: yea oftentimes we were in danger of our Lives, through beating, abusing, punishing, haling, casting over walls, striking with staves & Cudgels, and knocking down to the ground: Beside, Reproaching, Scorning, Revilings, Hooting at, Scornings and Slanderings, and all abuse that could be thought or acted by evil hands and tongues, and oft carried before Magistrates with grievous Threats, and sometimes put in the Stocks, and whipped, and often imprisoned, and many hard dealings against us, the worst that tongues or hands could execute, sparing life. Of this all the North Countreys can witness. And all these things are sustained and suffered from People and Rulers because of our Faithfulness to the Lord, and for declaring against the false Deceivers. For nothing save only the hand of the Lord and his power, could have preserved us and carried us through all this: neither for any Reward outward whatsoever, or advantage to our selves would we have exposed our selves to suffrings, violence and dangers which befel us daily. But the Lord was our exceeding great reward through all these things, and kept us in the hollow of his hand, and under the shadow of his wings, and gave us dominion in p. 269Spirit over all our enemies, and subdued them before us: and though Rulers and People were combined against us, and executed their violence and in- [177] justice against us, yet the Lord made us to prosper and grow exceedingly in Strength, Wisdome and Number, and the hearts of the people inclined to us, and the Witness of God in many stirred for us: for to that in all Consciences, Words and wayes we did commend our selves to be known and approved.

Hereto they suddenly said, What canst thou make of this, but that Edward Burrowes said the truth, that the Sufferings of the people called Quakers were very great, & that he acknowledged the powerfull hand of the Lord toward them in supporting and delivering them: But this was far from boasting or making it any Evidence of the truth of their Religion and Principles.

I replyed, I prayed them to consider why pious and conscientious Souls (as they would be reputed) should give so large a Catalogue of their Sufferings. The Quotation weighed.2. Profess it was only for their Faithfulness to the Lord. 3. Declare that it was the hand of the Lord that kept them, 4, That he only could do it: I sayd the Weaving and inter-weaving of these Particulars, speak plainly that for their Faithfullness to the Lord and his Truth in declaring and suffering for it, the Lord had been faithfull to them in supporting them and comforting them in all these Sufferrings for his Name sake. Why should wise men use all these words but to this end, of Evidencing their Faithfulness to God, and Gods Faithfulness to them.

p. 270After some words had about these kind of passages in Ed. Burrowes and other of their Writings, I told them that we must come to that ancient and true Maxime,What true Suffering is. Causa facit Martyrem, not the Suffering of Burning it self that is the evidence of a true matter. I therefore told them that as it was in the case of Signs11Interline "and" R. W. Ms. Ann. Wonders Deut. 13. though they be Signs which false Prophets give, which come to pass, yet God commands his Children not to be moved from his written word, and his holy revealed and recorded Ordinances and Institutions.

I told them that I had other places which I had turned down in Edward Burrowes to produce; but these I had suppressed in my thoughts for expedition sake, and would if they pleased pass on to my proof of my next Position, to this they readily assented: but being now out of my Shackles of a quarter of an hour (to which I wink'd to draw them on) I crave the Readers Patience and leave to hear me say something now which then I could not say.

178] First.True Scripture Language. To what I have said before of E. Burrowes insisting so largly on the Sufferings of the Quakers, and yet my Antagonists denying them to make their Sufferings an Evidence of their Truth, I present the Reader with a witness of G. Fox his words in his Pag 64, [And there is a Proof to thee that the Quakers are sent of God who speak to thee of the Scripture right as they are] He that reads the place shall see that G. Fox useth these words against his Opposite Ieremiah Iewes, because that his Opposite p. 271had said, viz. That the Word of God was contained in the Scripture: and G. Fox checks him for it and saith if he had said [the word which it speaks of] he had spoken right &c. And this G. Fox makes an Evidence of the Quakers being sent of God, that they only can speak properly. How much more is what I have produced (and have much more to produce) a Proof that they do roll their Souls upon their Sufferings as an Evidence and Confirmation that they are sent of God?

2. It is wonderfull what the Iewes and Papists have suffered for their Lyes and Blasphemyes: The wonderfull Sufferings of HereticksWhat a wonderfull Story doth Manasseh Ben-Isrel relate of a Noble man, a Portugal, turned Iew, burn'd in Portugal for the Iewish Faith? What Devotion and Zeal have many of the Popish Party shewn at Tiburn? Sure it is that a natural Valour and Magnanimity, a natural Melancholy and Stoutness, a natural Pride and Vain-Glory will give wings which fire and Burning cannot scorch and conquer.

3. I doubt not but that tis possible for not only Christians, but also Iewes and Papists &c. like Paul in his mad Conscience, to be zealous for his Conscience, and to put others to death for their Consciences, and yet neither of them to sin against their Consciences, but ignorantly as Paul did.

4. I believe that not only Paul, Great failings of Gods Children in this life.and such as he, in Unbelief may so practice, but even the true Saints and Children of God. He that shall ponder the Fathers Poligamy, the best Kings of Iudah suffering the High places, Davids slaying Uriah, Asahs imprisoning the Prophet, Peters rash using the Sword, p. 272Davids and Nathans unadvised Advise to build God a Temple, the Disciples calling for Fire from Heaven, and shall see cause to reprove the Quakers for their rash damning of others from whome they have suffered. For,

5. As tis possible for Gods own Children to hold, and that [179] obstinately, false Principles, so it is possible for other of Gods Children as obstinately to afflict and punish those others to Death, and so bring Affliction and Destruction one upon an other which is that the Devil aimes at.

6. Because the Quakers do so abundantly glory in their Sufferers, and (in comparison of them) slight the Saints under the Altar (in our Book of Martyrs, as Iames Parnel impiously calls it) casting all that differ from them into the Satanical Delusion, and Serpentine nature, as Fox doth, Pag. 5. and 253. and 99. Who forbids to receive into their Houses, no not Kings and Princes, nor to bid them God speed that are not in their Light.True and False Sufferers for the Name of Christ. I think it fit to observe at this Turn some Differences between true Sufferers and false, both pretending the Name of Christ Iesus.

First, The Persons whome the heavenly man Iohn Fox describes, they were men and women known to be of holy and heavenly Spirits towards God, and of low and meek Spirits towards all, yea their very enemyes. I would I could say so of the Quakers (though no question but a a gold Ring may fall into the Channel, The Quakers described.and11Interline "a." R. W. Ms. Ann. Iewel into the Dirt of worldly and Antichristian errors) But for the Quakers p. 273I have cause to fear that generally they are Proud, ambitious, and Worldly-minded Wretches. Some of them have literal Knowledge of the Scripture, and some stirring Affections with the stony Ground, others with the thorny Ground have suffered formerly, but the Cares and lusts of this world have drild them into this way of Antichristian Worship. others are Fierce, Pragmatical▪ Discontented &c. and they must travel and be Apostles to preach and bring in Proselites.I Fox & G Fox their Martyrs the contrary causes of their Sufferings.

The Cause of Iohn Foxes and G. Foxes Martyrs differ as much as Day from Night, and Light from Darkness: For it is known that I. Fox his Martyrs or Witnesses (those blessed Souls under the Altar) were slain for maintaining the Authority and Purity of the Holy Scriptures as the revealed word or will of the Eternal God against the Traditions and Inventions of men.

But G. Foxes Sufferers have generally suffered for their Childrens Baubles, fantastical Traditions and Inventions, for setting up a Dream of a Light and Christ within all Man kind, above the holy Scriptures, above the Son of God, above all Earthly Dignityes, and all their Betters: endeavouring (with the Pope) to trample all souls and Bodyes under their proud feet.

180] 3. The carriage of these two Sorts of Sufferers differ as much as East from West, and Heaven from Hell.

1. The ground of Iohns Sufferers was that which Iohn so much writes of, viz. love to the Heavenly Bridegroom, without which Paul slights burning p. 274it self:Heavenly love carried on. G Foxes even felf, God and Christ & Spirit. this appears in their wonderfull Love to the holy Scriptures, (the Love-Letters of Christ Iesus) and unto all that loved Christ Iesus also. The Quakers are known to be Fierce, Heady, Proud, Self-conceited, Stout, Bold, and driven on by an Audacious and Desperate Spirit (which G. Fox and some subtle Foxes with him have of late bla…ed in H. Norton &c.) No question but some of them have a notion of Wrath yet to come, and therefore rather then to endure Hell Fire they will give up their lives to the Flames, others of them fast 40 dayes,Virgin love to God, &c. and yet be far from true Virgin Love to the Son of God. A Virgin that loves a man for Himself, will not slight his Love-letters, nor his Near Relations (least of all abhor them, and sink and burn them as these Foxians doe.

2. The carriage of I. Foxes Witnesses, though (in respect of Gods holy Truth) it was couragious and gallant, yet their lowliness and humility did shine forth gloriously also.

1. As to God, being more sensible of their sins then of their sufferings: con…essing with many tears that although God did turn their sufferings unto his Glory,The humility of Christs sufferers and although ungodly men (like Foxes and Wolves) hunted them like innocent Lambs and Chickins) yet they had deserved and calld for this Storm by their unthankfulness for their former peace and liberties, by their drowsiness and sleeping upon the Earthen bed of worldly Profits and Pleasures.

Contrarily it is known to all, that although sometimes the Quakers will say we come in love to your p. 275Souls yet (the Quakers are far from confessing their sins,Devilish pride as having no more sin then God hath, and (according to their Principles and some of them say it) they can no more sin against God then God can sin against them.

As to Men Christs sufferers were meek, patient; respective, contented, thankful.

But as the Quakers hearts have an insensible brawniness and hardness (like frozen Rivers come over their hearts) in matters of God so as to men.

181] 1. Was there ever a People (Men and Women professing such an height of Christianity) so fierce so heady, so high-minded and though generally not hardned) so censuring, reviling, cursing and damning: and so savage and barbarous as in the stark nakedness of men and women, &c.

2. As to Revenge, how patient, and pitiful, and praying for their Enemies were I. Foxes Martyrs or Witnesses, The predictions of the Quakersand G. Foxes, how spitting Fire & Brimstone? (witness the second part of N. England judged by G. Bishop) because Christ in them is come to judgement) wherein he pronounceth Destruction to Bodies and Souls of N. England men, saying in his Epistle, that their judgement lingreth not, nor doth their damnation slumber.

Tis true some of their Predictions have and may come to pass as do many also of Conjurers & Witches, for the Devil knows the Complexion of persons and things, and what is like to come to pass (as in Sauls case and in other events) and still the poor Quakers (and other his Captive Slaves) with such Bables as these. I told you what weather it would p. 276be,A blessed saying of blessed Mr. Dod. I told you where the Wind would blow: I told you what would come to pass,] and yet as blessed Mr. I. Dod used to say, though the Devil was up early, God was still up before him: for the Proverb is here true, God hath sent curst Cows short Horns: his infinite Wisdome, Power and Goodness is pleased to put an Hook into the Jaws of Sathan: he shews himself the pitisui sparer and preserver of men: When the Devil is a Fisher longing for troubled and bloody waters, yet God hath graciously proved many of the bloody prophesies of his waspish Prophets and Prophetesses, (as I can prove) to be lying and false already.

We now descended to the thirteenth Proposal (the sixth to be discus'd at Providence) which was read by them, The 13 position discusd.and is this, viz. [These many Books and Writings are extreamly Poor, Lame, and Naked, swelld up only with High Titles and Words of Boasting and Vapour.]

I told them that I had not shun'd (as in the presence of the most High) to read any of their Books or Letters I could come at: but the truth is, I could never pick out any Wheat (of solid, rational and heavenly Truth) out of their heaps of Chaffe, and Dreams, and Fancies of new Christs, new Spirits, &c.

It is true that W. Edmund. said, that the Word of the Lord [182] was a Fire, and a Hammer, &c. But I said the word they meant was but a painted Fire, and a painted Hammer, and that never broke nor burned up sin as sin.

Let a man read the Works of the Papists, Lutherans, p. 277Arminians, The Quakers and other Authors comparedand amongst our selves, the Episcopal and Presbyterian Writings: a man shall have wherein to exercise his Judgement, Memory, &c. he shall have Scripture proposed, Arguments alleadged, yea he shall read Answers and Replies, whereby to satisfie a rational Soul and Understanding.

But in the Quakers Books & Writings, Peter & Iude tells us (what I have found) clouds high of an imaginary Christ and Spirit: high swelling words, strange from the Holy Scripture Language, and all sober and Christian Writers and Speakers.

Let Io. Chandlers Writings, and the Writings of Theora Iohn (that Monster of Delusion) be viewed, whose bodily Raptures, and frantick Writings of the Quakers Principles, and of the Iews (in Hebrew, Greek, Latin & Arminiack Writings (which he confest he understood not) and let the rest of their Writings be brought to the Touch-stone, and see if an honest Goldsmith can find ought else but the Dross, Dreams and Fancies, in stead of the solid Gold of Heavenly Scripture.

I have read Nichols, and Nailor, and Howgel and Burrows, and Parnel, and Farnworth, and Fox, and Dewsbury and Pennington, G. F. his Writing… poor and lam….and Whitehead, and Bishop, &c. And I could readily and abundantly prove my position out of all of them, but my desire and intention was (as by my Paper to G. Fox appears) to have made it good to G. Fox himself, and to all Christians, how poor and lame, and naked G. Fox his writings are, who seems to be as Pighius and Echius amongst the Papists, and as Bellarmine the greatest Writer amongst them.

p. 278I told my Opposites I would therefore Answer this Bellarmine, G F his book in folio consideredand I would not say Bellarmine thou liest: but I would by Holy Scripture shew G. Fox and his deluding Foxians, how the old Fox the old Serpent was too crafty for them all, and had brought them and their Followers to the brim of the Lake that burns with fire and brimstone.

First. then I said, let who will that understands true English, and are able to read and write true English, (though he know no more) take G. Fox his Folio Book in hand, and tell me whether [183 (through his whole Book) he writes like an English-man: And though he upbraids all his Opposites scornfully and ridiculously (as poor Children that know not the Bible nor their Accidence in saying you to a singular, &c.) whether in many scores of places in his Book he confounds not the singular and the Plural: I confess when I urged this in publick, my Opposites desired of me no proof of this out of Foxes Book and therefore (remembering my quarter hour Glasse) I fpared Quotations, but now (through Gods patience and my Readers) my Tedder being longer, I shall give one or two brief Proofs and Instances.

In page 282. in G. Fox his second Answer he saith, [You where you are sees him nor] where it should be the Plural see him not, if this Proud Bruit had known either his Accidence or the Bible.

In Page 300. he saith [The Scriptures is able to make wise unto Salvation] which should be are able, &c.

In Page 16. [The Churches was to hear] for, were to hear.

p. 279In Page 110.G F his ignorance of common English [As thou doth] which should be, as thou dost: And abundance more of this Boyes English all his Book over, which I cannot impute to his Northern Dialect (having been so long in the South, and London, and read and answered (as he dreams) so many English Books: nor to the Printer (the faults of that kinde being so numerous) but to the finger of the most High, and most Holy, whose property it is, and therefore delights to run thwart and cross the shins of proud and insulting Souls and Spirits.

2. I observe throughout his Book a Devillish Black Line of despising those that are Good (as the Scripture speaketh) He counts none Godly but himself and his Foxians: yea there is no God, no Christ, no Spirit, but what is in him and them feelingly, though they say he is in every man and woman in the world, and Christ Iesus the Sun of Righteousness, Horrible contradictionand the Holy Spirit, and the Kingdome of God, which they confess consists in Righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirits,11"Holy Spirit." R. W. Ms. Ann. and yet (as they impiously and simply speaks) these Inhabitants and Hosts to all these Guests know nothing of their lodging and dwelling within them.

G. Fox gives a shrewd suspition that he never knew what the true fear,The excellent men. and love, and peace, and joy of God mean; if he did, is it possible that he could puff at so many Writers (excellent for great Knowledge and godliness,Whom G F in his book in folio trampleth …n as Dishclouts Dogs & Devils denying any thing of God or 184] Christ, or Spirit, or Grace to be in them: p. 280some of them (eminent servants of God) I have known: of others of them I have smelt the sweet Odour of an Heavenly report from the mouthes of others and in their Writings.

But as G. Fox will be found to adore an Image & Crucifix for the true Lord Jesus, so whatever he say of others will his Faith, his Love, his Spirit of Discerning, and Hope of Glory and Salvation prove (without Repentance) dolefully false in the latter end.

For, doth not this Proud Censor know that men may be true Saints in their persons, and yet be subject to sudden Epileptical & Falling Fits? may not David walk with God with a perfect heart, and yet in the matters of Bathsheba and Uriah (and many other particulars) fall down like a Jewel into the Dirt? that Christ Jesus owns Peter and his Confession, &c. and yet in another case, get thee behind me Sathan? That Peter resolves to dye for Jesus, and yet denies with Cursing and Swearing, that he never knew him, and after Christs Resurrection and Ascention, even Peter plays the Hypocrite & Dissembler.

Yea did not the high Fathers in Godliness, famous Kings in Gods Church live long in the incivility of many Wives, and the impiety of Worshipping in the High places,A difference of Sinners &c. to what purpose doth the Lord inspire his holy Pen-men to write these holy Histories: was it to shame his Saints departed, or to shame his own Holiness, and to cast a stumbling block, and a protection for after sinners and transgressors? or amongst other holy ends to teach us (like Moses) to distinguish between an Egyptian p. 281whom he slew and the Israelites whom he chid for wronging each other,G. Fox no true Goldsmith. since they were their Breth…en; so that he is a poor Christian Goldsmith, that knows not to discern the Gold of Holiness, and the Copper of Hypocrisie; yea, and to give the best Gold in the World its due allowance, with which it will pass currant in Earth and Heaven with God, and such who truly know and love him.

But with G. Fox. in all this great Book, the most humble and able, godly and conscientious are with him but Vipers, Serpents, Cains, Iudasses, false Prophets, Pharisees, dumb Dogs, Sorcerers, Witches, Reprobates, Devils, &c.

3. In this Book of G. Fox (all along) he denies the Scripture to be the Word of God: and he said, that every man in the world hath that Spirit that gave forth Scriptures, and that all Saints are [185 acted by the same Spirit immediately that moved the Prophets and Apostles and holy Pen-men of the holy Scriptures, all tending to vilifie and nullifie the Holy Scriptures.

Besides, his Impiety in these Assertions (which half an eye of Mahumetans, Fox his subtilty and yet simplicity in granting the Script▪ to be the words of God.& Iewes, & Papists, & Protestants will see) I note his Simplicity (for a Fox though he be crafty is but a Beast still) For out of his Piety he grants the holy Scriptures through all his Book to be the Words of God, though not the Word of God: and for this his Grant he quotes Exod. 20. God spake all these Words, and the four Books of the Revelations, which I nor my Opposites could tell in publick what to make of: But if they are the Words of God, and fome of them fearfully p. 282written by the inconceivable Finger of God once and twice, then every particular word of these words must needs be the Word or Will or mind of God every grain of gold is gold, and every drop in the Ocean is Water and Salt too, as I urged to them before concerning every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God) else the Words of God when brought to particular examination, they are not the word of God, but of Angels or Men or Devills.

How sweet are (not Words but) right Words: every man shall kiss his lips that gives a right Answer, how dirty then, how filthy and bloudy are those Lips that in so many places, debating with so many wise and learned and pious men, drop not Honey and Milk, but Wormwood and Gall the Venome and the Poyson of Asps to them that lick up such deceitfull and destroying Doctrines.

4. In G. Fox his Book I observe that all along he notoriously nibbles ar VVords and quarrels at VVords, which he saith are not Scripture, as that wicked word [Humane] relating to the Person of the Son of God and man.

Also the word Trinity and Sacrament. The word Humane abominable above all words to the QuakersOh how zealous is this Fox for the purity of Language? Why may not the word Humane be used as well as the word Sabboth and Sabbaoth, and Bethlebem and Ierusalem which are Hebrew words, and as well as the words Baptisme and Iesus Christ which are Greek words, Scribes and Scriptures and Pretorium which are Latine words. That word Humane is odious &c. for Christ Iesus sake, and therefore the more I love and honour it, as expressing the appearance p. 283of God in Flesh, in that personal, Individual Flesh of Christ Iesus the [186] Mediator petween God and Man, the Man Christ Iesus.

5. I observe the loose and wild Spirit of G. Fox in dealing with so many heavenly Champions, the Leaps and Skips like a wild Satyre or Indian, catching and snapping at here and there a Sentence, like Children skipping ore hard places and Chapters, picking and culling out what is common and easie with them to be paid of and answered.

6. Any sober Soul may read in most of their Books,The simple tautologyes of the Quakers. and in G. Fox his Book such Tautologies and needless Repetitions that may even Turn his Stomach, and make him abhor to touch a Quakers Book more. How many hundred times have you, Christ is within you except you be Reprobates: Flesh of his Flesh and Bone of his Bone &c. and I presume neer a thousand times if not a full thousand times repeated [That lightens every man that comes into the World, that lightens every man that comes into the world] &c. G. Fox had many Bullets flying about his eares, and therefore at every turn (like a man fighting for his life) he is forced to hold out a Pretence a Buckler a Breast-plate, simply called Light, and at every turn to cry Oh the Light, the Light that enlightens every man that comes into the World.

7 Through all his Book like some great Commanders or Generals by Land or Sea,The inju… ing & wild imperiousness of G. Fox. yea like the Emperors or Dictators among the Romanes, so doth this wild devouring Soul give forth his high and haughty Sentences: this proud Bladder is big with Simon Magus his thoughts of being Some Body.

I shall pre…ent one Instance, p. 282duplicate page p. 283duplicate page

p. 284Pag. 253.Hen. Haggar. His Opposite Henry Haggar saith, you call [all men Dead and Carnall, in the Serpents nature in what form soever they differ from you] this proud Soul Answers, [All that be not in the Light that enlightens every man that comes into the World, which is the way to the Father, differeth from us, such be dead, such be carnal in the nature: for none comes to the life but who comes to the Light, in what form soever they be, and such as differ from us differ from Christ, for none comes from under the Satanical nature but who comes to the Light] what Iulian the Apostate, Bloudy and devillish Pride of the Foxians.what Duke D' Alva, what Wolsey could have spoken more imperiously, insultingly & bloudily then this wild Fox hath done against all the true Servants & Witnesses of the Most High that ever have been or shall be to the end of this world? they differ from Fox & therefore are Devils &c.

187] 8. I observe that G. Fox all along his Book powres forth a flood of Fire & Brimstone against all his Oppsites and tells us that it is not Railing &c. for (his chief Adversary) the holy Scripture gives Instance of Christ Jesus himself giving such Language; and also it is no other then the Opposites to the Quakers give unto them: but Godly and Sober Souls will consider,

1. That Moses and the Prophets, and Christ Iesus and his Apostles do not universally absolutely and promiscuously fling out Fire-brands, Fox his horrihle railing.and shoot Arrowes and Death into the Sides and Souls of all that differ from them, as here G. Fox doth.

We may observe in the holy Scripture, that generally they were high handed hypocritical and hardned p. 285Sinners against whome the holy Spirit thundred out such Titles, threatnings and Judgments: But Fox in this place makes no Distinction, but as boldly as Blind Bayard saith all that differ from us &c.

2. This is no rare business, but Fox and his Foxians common Language and Barkings: Thou Cain, thou Serpent, thou Devil, (Devil, Devil, Devil, as one of their She-Apostles have said amongst us.

3. It is G. Fox his bruitish and ridiculous Song in the close of his Answers (and sometimes in the beginning) without any Truth, Humanity or Modesty, to cry out saying [And as for the rest of thy Lyes and Slanders,Fox his bruitish and ridiculous Song. they are not worth the mentioning] when he hath pickt out a few Sentences or pieces of Sentences (easie for himself to carpe at &c.) his conclusion and Burthen of his bruitish ridiculous Song is [As for the rest of thy Lyes and Slanders] instead of holy Scripture, or solid Arguments with Answers to his Opposites Reasons and Replyes and Rejonders that an humble soul may see some footing to rest on.

4. As we say in the death of the Martyrs or Witnesses of Iesus, What Railing isit is not the Suffering, but the Cause & Spirit & Cariage is to be considered: So in bitter Language, it is not lawfull to call every Prince or King, Fox, as Christ called Herod: nor every Opposite Viper & Serpent, Fool and Blind and whited painted Wall and Sepulchre &c. They seemed to speak Reason to Christ upon his Cross [Thou that savest others, thou that destroyest the Temple &c. come down now save thy self] &c. and yet Gods Spirit calls this Reviling and Railing at him.

p. 2869. All may see what a simple Craking Sound of vapouring and [188] boasting runs through all this Foxes Book: Doubtless Sysera and his Mideanites, Goliah and his Philistines, Rabshekah and his Assirians were types of these Children of Pride,Instances out of G. F. his Book whose Vapours whose Prophesies (so me notoriously false, already proved) whose promised Victoryes, Spoils, Threatnings lye like black foul Blots of ink or grease over all his Papers and the Papers of most of them, far from that Closet Content and Sincerity of the true Saints who are content with the eye of God alone in secret.

10. For a more full proof of the Lameness and Stark nakedness of their Writings, I shall select and mention some Particulars out of this Grand Alcoran of G. Fox 1. His Opposites Words, then his Answer. And, 3. My Replyes &c.

Page 1. He brings in Sam. Eaton saying, [He doth not believe that there is Substantial, Essential or Personal Union between the Eternal Spirit and Believers.]

G. Fox Answers [Though the Scripture saith the Spirit dwells in the Saints,Sam. Eaton. 1 Cor. 6. And he that is joyned to the Lord is one Spirit, 1 Joh. 1. As though the Saints had not Union with God which the Scripture say they have.]

I Reply: concerning the Essence or Being of the Immortal, Invisible, Infinite, Eternal, Omnipotent, and Omniscient, and only Wise: we know no more then a Fly knows what a King is, and therefore 1 Tim. 9.11"1. Tim. 6." R. W. Ms. Ann.1 Tim 6 He dwells in the Light that no man can approach p. 287to: how fully doth the Holy Spirit in the Book of Iob, and especially in that dreadful Word or Voice of God in a Whirlwind knock out the brains of all these proud Fancies? let this proud Fox, or any of the stoutest Lions or Lionesses amongst them, look but a few minutes upon the glorious Sun in the Heavens, and then tell us how their eyes do: and yet thus like proud and pratling Children do they make a noise about their Bibs, and Aprons, and Muckingers: and how they are one with God his Being and Essence, &c.

Is it not enough for Sun,Gods being out of our reach Moon and Stars, and Men to be enlightned by his Infinity, but they must be God himself, and Light it self, in the highest sence, because God is Light, &c.

What impudence would it be in a Wife, because she is one with her Husband in Relation, to say, She is the Husband himself, and not to keep her just distinction and distance? or in a Subject (because the Subjects and the King are Relatives, and in a sence one) [189] therefore to say, that they are the King himself.

Again, we know that the word Spirit is taken in Holy Scripture for a Spiritual Nature. Hence it is said that God is a Spirit, not that God is properly a Spirit, no more then he is Light (though my Opposites in our Dispute affirmed he was) but of such a Heavenly and Spiritual Nature:The nature of Spirits For the Devils also are Spirits, though defiled with sin and wickedness: thus Ioh. 3. That which is born of the Spirit is Spirit, not that Spirits beget Spirits, and p. 288that a new Creature is a young holy Spirit or God himself, as I told one of the chief of the Quakers at Newport,

And that 1. Cor. 6. shews us in what respect he that is joyned to the Lord is one Spirit: For know you not (saith Paul) that your Bodies are the Temples of the Holy Spirit: How God and Christ of is in us.and Ephes. 2. For an Habitation of God through the Spirit.

Thus God dwelt in his Temple of old, as a Man in his House and a King in his Palace: not that a Mans House, or the Kings Palace is of his Substance or Essence no more then an house is of the Suns Essence, &c. and no more was Gods Temple of old, nor his Temples his Saints now, after the blockish and blasphemous nonsence of the Quaker.

In Page 2.Sam. Eaton He brings in Sam Eaton saying [The Scripture is to be judge of Doctrines and Manners.]

G. Fox Answers [The Iews had not the infallible Iudgement, that had Scripture but stood against Christ the Light,The Scripture the Rule. and judged him to be a Devil, that judgement was not infallible, and that Doctrine and Manners of theirs was not right which goes against Christ the Light.]

I Reply, as the Sun in the Heavens is the Epitomy or Center of all Natural Light, though some eyes are sore, look a squint, or are stark blinde.

And as the Rule or Canon (though Fox simply bogles at that as not a Scripture word) is the same, for it is in the Greek, though millions know it not, and millions (as the Pharises) pervert and misapply it.

The Holy Scripture is granted by G. Fox to be p. 289Gods Words (though in a subtle fancie,The Holy Scripture a Lanthorn not his Word,) but if it be every word of their. Gods, then is every Word as D…vid saith a Light to our feet, and a Lanthorn to our Paths, though we despise it and wilfully refuse it (as some sometimes do Lanthorns) and wilfully stumble [190] into the Ditch Eternal, and other poor Souls after us: Thus the Heavenly Sun-Dial is one and constant in its guidance and direction to us poor Travellers, though we neglect to look on it, or be ignorant of the figures and lines of it,Try all things and be willingly ignorant, &c.

We are not only commanded to read and meditate in the Holy Scriptures, and to search them as the Bereans did, but we are commanded to try all things, to try the very Spirits. The Papists slap us in the mouth with the infallible Spirit of the Pope, and that he is not to be judged: the Quakers say the same of themselves, which is no more then as I said in the Dispute (when W, Edmund. interrupted me, crying out Blasphemy) for a Man to go for Counsel to an arrant Cheater and Jugler (then cheating most when he calls all others Cheaters.)

In Page 3.Sam Eaton He brings in the same Author saying [That God did not intend immediate Teaching, nor to give out an immediate voice in after ages, which should direct and guid men in the way of Salvation.

He Answers, which is contrary to the Scripture, which saith, All the people of the Lord shall be taught of the Lord, and he that is of God heareth Gods word, and that is immediate and living, and doth endure for ever, there is no fallibility nor delusion in the Revelation of God, but all fallibility and delusion is out of it.

p. 290I Reply,Gods mediate teachings his word & voice manifold and specified. it is granted that God speaks mediately unto us by the light of Nature within us; doth not nature teach you that it is a shame for a man to have long hair, &c.

2. By his works of Creation.

3. His Providence without us in his mercies and judgements, so that every drop of Rain and crumb of Bread, and grain of Corn is Gods word and witness:

And 4. The pains of the Body, and Dreams in the night have much of Gods word and voice in them, Iob 33. God speaks once and twice but man hears it not and is not Gods speaking his Word?

And 5, All grant that the words of Scripture are the words of God.

And 6. The teachings of men, Ephes. 4. are granted to be means, &c. both for the gathering of the Church, as Apostles, and for the Governing of the Flocks, as Pastors and Shepherds, &c.

191] 7. The Water, the Bread, the Wine, &c. are appointed by Christ Jesus to be means while profession of Christ Jesus is made on earth to hold forth a remembrance of him until his second coming.

8. The private Prayers and Fastings and Meditations of the Saints day and night, are holy Meanes in and by which the Eternal God speaks Peace, Instruction, Reproof and Comfort to to them that fear him.

9. Sometimes it pleaseth God by the Ministration of his Ministring Spirits (the invisible Angels) to work by unknown and unseen wayes to us: thus in p. 291Pauls Light and Voice and Blindness, Pauls wonderful mediate and immediate conversion.and the Iailors Earthquake, but afterward in Ananias his sending to Paul (as Peter to Cornelius) and Paul to the Iailor, it pleased God to use his holy means and instruments of Men to men (Gods sweet and familiar way to men: the immediate Teachings of God by Dreams, by Vision, by Voices, by Motion, the Holy Scripture mentions many before and since the coming of the Lord Jesus, the Question is not whether it may not please the most Holy and infinite Prerogative of the most High,Immediate teachings so to teach where, and when, and whom he please.

But whether it be Christian obedience, or Diabolical laziness to fling off all means (as Fox all along teacheth) to sit still and listen to immediate Teachings (that is say I to the Devils whisperings) I believe the Papists and Quakers would give much to be rid of the Scriptures: I know also, that notwithstanding their pretence of Spirit, yet both of them are forced to use means, Praying, Preaching, Congregating, and (in stead of the holy means by Gods Spirit) have appointed many Inventions and Superstitions from a Satanical Spirit.

G. Fox saith, there is no Fallacy in the Revelation of God?

Ans. True, but will he say these seven things:

1. That all the pretended Revelations are the Revelations of God.

2. That Revelations may not pretend Angelical Light, Revelations considered in 7 particularsand yet be Diabolical Darkness.

3. That we may receive any Revelations and p. 292Teachings (as Children and Mad Folks do) without chewing, and rational weighing & consideration.

4. That God hath not appointed his old Scripture and Writing [192] new since Christs coming as a Standard, Rule or Touch stone to try all our own and others Inspirations by?

5. That Mahomets Inspirations are not one of the most prevailing Snares, Traps, and Engines, whereby he hath catcht whole Nations and Kingdomes, and the greatest part of this poor world at this day.

6. That when God reveals his word or will in writing (which G. Fox grants to be the words of God, and they are slighted) it is not common and most righteous with God to deliver up proud lazy Souls to strong Delusions to believe Lyes (as at this day it is most wonderfull)

7. Whether there be any way in this world to escape the snares of Sathans Whisperings but by humble attending to the search and Meditation of the heavenly Records, The great business of Revelationsby humble cryes to the Father of Spirits for his holy Spirit and help in all the Meanes by himself appointed, in Love and Pitty to the Souls of men.

A 4th. Sam EatonInstance of G, Fox his lame stuff is in Pag. 4. Where he brings in the same Author Sam Eaton saying, [The Gospel is the Letter, &c.] He Answers, [And the Apostle saith, it is the power of God &c. and the Letter kills, and many may have the Form but deny the Power, and so stand against the Gospel which is the Power of God.

I reply, we all know that the word Gsopel from p. 293the old Saxon is as strange to us English, What is the Gospelas the word Evangelium or Euangelion (the Latine and Greek) are: but we all agree that it may be turned (according to its meaning) Glad Newes. This wise cunning man tels us the Glad Newes is not the Glad Newes' Why so? Because it is the Power of God. who sees not here the simple subtelty of this Deceiver? The Gospel or Glad Newes preached is the power of God unto Salvation to every one that believeth &c. Rom. 1. Therefore this Glad Newes told, written, printed, preached, is not the Glad Newes: would he now perswade himself and us that Moses and the Prophets that wrote of this Glad Newes, and those four heavenly Pen-men (or Pens) which by the finger of God, (his immediate Spirit) wrote the History of the Life and Death of the Lord Jesus, &c. wrote nothing of the Gospel or glad news, for the glad news is the power of God.

2. I know the trick of these old Cheaters and Juglers to hide [193] themselves, and their cheating in the Bushes and Thickets of words of diverse Significations, The horrible Cheat of the Foxians.or figurative Speeches, which all honest Reason teacheth carefully to distinguish. I know it is Fox his trick, and all their tricks in his and their Writing, to make God and Christ and Spirit & Gospel & Covenant & Iustification, (as before I proved) to be all that one cheating Fancy called Light in them and in every one that cometh into the World.Why the Gospel is called the Power of God. These bewitched souls will not owne a figurative speech when it makes not for their Idols. 3. Is it not that the Lord calls the preaching of the Glad Newes the Power of God, because of p. 294the wonderfull effect of it to him that believeth this Glad Newes, which few or none believe, as being a foolish thing to believe (as the Iews and thousands others say, to believe in a beggars brat, laid in a Manager and a Gallowes-Bird &c. 4. Paul calls this Glad news, How it is called Pauls Gospel.his Gospel or Glad news, Rom. 2. Will the Foxians therefore say that either Paul lyed, or else it is not Gods Gospel nor Christs, but Pauls although it is most true that as Paul had charge of it (as a Shepheard of another mans Flock, or a Mariner of an other mans Ship) it may11"by" R. W. Ms. Ann. be common Phrase of Speech (though not literal but figurative) be called Pauls (or any other Messengers of Christ) Glad news or Gospel. 5. There is a wild beast called a Fox, Three Foxes.a subtle and pernicious creature: there was a famous heavenly Man, a famous writer of the Book of Martyrs, Iohn Fox, and there is this poor deluded & deluding Soul G. Fox, to whome I am now replying, ought not these to be distinguished? Is there not such a mischievous subtle Beast called the Fox because G. Fox bears (and that most justly and by a finger of Gods providence bears it) the wild Beasts name: or was not such a learned & heavenly & wonderfully deligent & zealous man as I. Fox, The Scripture the word or glad news from Heaven written.because G. Fox bears that name also? 6. But further, If the Glad news may not be called the Glad news when tis Scripture (that is written) or preached, then not Glad news when spoken. 7. The Law denounceth Sentence of Death against a Traitor &c. this Sentence is written, & in a Sence may be called a Killing Letter: the King pardons this p. 295Traitor, and this Sentence of Pardon is written: this gracious word of a King is not less his Word because it is Written then it was when first spoken by him; and this word or pleasure of the King written may be called Gospel or Glad news, the Glad news or Gospel of his Temporal Salvation: will any sober man say as G. Fox impiously and frantickly, that the writing of the Pardon and the Broad-Seal is a Dead letter & a Killing letter &c. because Paper Parchment &c. If G. Fox from hunting after Souls by Sea and Land, arrive at [194] any Port in England and send a Letter Post to his Wife & Friends, containing his many Deliverances, many Experiences, Counterfeits destroy not true …eirs and owners for ever.his safe Arrivail and his Purpose and Hope shortly to see them: shall now this Glad news (or Gospel) though but a few raggs made (Paper) be stiled a Dead letter yea a Killing letter though it contain nothing (as the Christian Gospel or Glad news doth not) but glad news or Tidings. 8. Hence it is that we read so often of Preaching the Gospel, of Believing the Gospel, and that as before Paul calls it his Glad news, or Gospel because it was his work to tell it.

Yea but saith this Deceiver throughout his Book A man may have the Letter and Form, without the Power and Life. &c. I Answer Who knows not that? and that a Form & picture is not the man himself? who knows not that Iudas notwithstanding his pretended Love and Kissing of Christ Iesus that yet he had not the Life & power of true Love and heavenly affection: but doth it follow that living and moving Bodyes have not Souls & Spirits p. 296within them, because that pictures have not? That none preach Christ Iesus truly because that G. Fox preacheth an immaginary and Allegorical Christ, in order to establish himself the only true Christ, and the Eternal Son of God as many bewitched Souls call him. 9. What is this but to cheat poor Birds with the Chaff & Falacy of dividing the Body from the Soul, the Letter from the Meaning, the Instrument or Tool from the Workman or Husbandman using it,A word to all Foxians. the Gospel or glad news from Believing of it. Ah poor cheated Souls (called Quakers all of you) why do you willingly (out of pretended Enlightnings & Experiences) shut your eye of common Sense and Reason, not daring to call good news, good news, because some, or the most will not Believe it? was it not so with the women preaching or telling the good news or gospel, although few or none were found to believe that Christ was risen?

10. The truth is (search your cheating Familiars narrowly &) you will find that your selves and the Papists would make an Holy Day of that Day, in which all the Bibles in the world were burnt, that you may establish your infallible spirits & Traditions.

I know I wronge you not, I have too much proof of it, which you would se if the heart were not the arrantest Cheater in the World,Gods wonderful preservation of his word or wil to poor mankind and your selves not willing to be cheated. Tis true Antiochus attempted the burning of Moses and the Prophets out of the world: some of the bloudy Emperours followed on in Antiochus his bloudy Steps raging against the Scriptures also, the Romane Popes p. 297in theirs, and common reason may tell all men, and the Quakers themselves, [195] that if the same power come into their hands as Antiochus & the Romane Emperours had the holy Scriptures shall not if they can effect it trouble them or others one day in the world longer. But of this more in the next and last Position.

A 5th Instance is pag 10 where G. Fox brings in Iohn Bunian saying,John Bunian. It is not Faith and works that justifie in the sight of God, but it is Faith and good works which justifie in the sight of men only. &c.

He answers, Abraham was not justified to men only by his Obedience, but to God, and where is Faith there is Iustification, The great Position of Iustification.which works by Love: and the Saints Faith & works were not only to justifie them in the sight of men? for the Work of God is to doe what he saith & his Will which who doth not are not justified in so doing, but to be beaten with Stripes: who seek to be justified by their Faith and Works in the sight of men, are Dead Faith & Works both.

I Reply, In this great business of justification & Pardon of Sin (which Luther called the great Wall of Seperation between us and the Papists) I humbly hope to shew how lame this Fox is, and that he & his Foxians agree with the Papists, Arminians, Socinians against the true Protestants in this fundamental business. For what is Iustification but a Pardon written and sealed and declared from the King of Heaven to poor condemned Traitors. Iustification what it isThat this Pardon may be merited by any Price that we or all the World can offer, is denied by true p. 298Protestants, but affirmed (in effect) by the proud unbroken Souls of Papists, Arminians, Socinians, and these Foxians called Quakers. It is true after a condemned Soul hath received a Pardon or Iustification from his King freely without Desert (upon the Princes Mediation) he declares his loyal and thankfull Obedience &c. but is this his Pardon & Iustification as our subtle Simpletons imagine?

Again that Abraham was pardoned (or justified, it is all one) for his Work sake as this blind Soul …aith, how doth Rom. 3, 4. and the Epistle to the Galathians cry out, and the experience of every true broken Heart cry out Lyar against such proud and Popish Blasphemies. Further, If all the Righteousness of the best of men, that is their good Thoughts, good Words, good Actions Aims: Prayers, Preachings, Sufferings, be but as Womens Menstruous & filthy Clouts, (as the Most High calls them) what Popish and frantick Madness is it in Fox to talk of Iustification before God by works or by Obedience?

A 6th. Instance is Pag 16. where he brings in Henoch Howet saying, It is an Expression of a dark deluded Mind to say that God is not distinguished from the Saints. G. Fox Answ. But God and Christ is in 196] the Saints, and walks in them, and he is is a Reprobate and out of the Apostles Doctrine. I reply to this Canting Gypsie, The proud Quakers affirm no distinction between God & themselvesin Pag. 74. He denyes the Position of Ralph Farmer, viz. That God the Creator is eternally distinct from all Creatures, and that Christ being God only in one Person, remains a distinct person from all Men and Angels. Also in the same Page, that God is distinct in his Being and Blessedness p. 299from all Creatures. I Answer, is it not Sufficient that poor Dust and Ashes, poor Chaff and Stubble may be admitted to a Parly with the Heavenly Majesty, and receive Smiles of his Countenance, in the Face of the only begotten Prince & Mediator? to be cloathed with the Virgins diverse Collours, and heavenly Affections, but with the Devil and our first Parents, we must aspire to the throne of the Incomprehensible Majesty and Godhead also? Besides, Let mans Common Sence be Umpire, is there no Distinction between Infinite and Finite? between the Infinite Ocean of Majesty power, goodness, Wisdom &c., and the poor Dross 11"Drops." R. W. Ms. Ann.of which Men & Angles are Partakers? The King dwells in White-Hall and in other of his Royal Palaces; is therefore no Distinction between the King and his Houses, though some may be braver then others: And yet Fox saith his Opposite is a Reprobate. I ask why? The only Reason Fox gives is, because he licks not up the filthy and hellish poyson of Foxes childish and hellish Blasphemy against the Eternal Godhead.

A 7th. Instance is Pag. 22. where he brings in Ioseph Kellet saying, [They be all alienated from God, and Enemies until Faith] G. Fox Answers, Ioseph Kellet[So they have denied their School-Master, which is until faith which will keep them out of the Alienation which is the Law.

I Reply with Ioseph Kellet, (and the rest of those excellent men whom Fox useth as Dishclouts that by nature our Alienation from God is so great,Our natural Alienation from God that the finest and sweetest nature in the World is so p. 300alienated and opposite unto God, that it resolves like some Ships (against a Turk or other Enemy) we resolve to kill or be killd, yea and to sink by his side before we will yield to be taken by him: therefore doth the Holy Spirit so often speak of mans hating of God and Gods hating of him, yea of mans abhorring of God, and Gods abhorring of him, and Rom. 8. that not only mans wisdome is at enmity but enmity it self against God. Hence it is, few Kings, few Counsellours, few Nobles, few Schollars, few Merchants, &c. (who use to be the wisest of men) relish the Doctrine of the Manger and the Gallowes for the more natural Wisdome the more aversation from the foolishness of the glad news to poor,Few excellent men saved lost, drown'd and damn'd Mankind. 197] 2. Again, I say as Solomon, the legs of the lame are not equal, &c. for how doth it follow that we deny the Law to be a School-master, pointing unto Christ, because we deny the Law can bring us to Christ, which is so indeed in the English, Gal. 3. but is not fo in the Greek, yea, how could the Law of Ceremonies, pointing out the Lamb of God, or the Law of Do this and live, keep out of the Alienation, do they (more then the Law of Creation) leave any converting Impression from the Soul, until Gods hand open a door of Believing?

The Dyal points to the Sun, &c. but who receives benefit by it but he that skills it, and looks upon it, &c. and yet the Dyal is not the Sun, &c. but points as all the Proyhecies, Ceremonies, Commandmen…s, (before his coming unto that God Man, the Sun of Righteousness) Christ Jesus. As to p. 301the rest of his Answer, viz, [Which will keep them out of the Alienation which is the Law] it is a piece of bruitish Nonsence (as are not a few more in his Book) and it may be taken (like the Answer of the Devil at Delphos) many wayes: for it may be taken, that Faith will keep them out Alienation: or, the School-Master will keep them out of the Alienation: or whether the Alienation is the Law, or Faith is the Law, is doubtful, and if his meaning should be that thy11"Ye." R. W. Ms. Ann. Law either of Ceremonies,Our alienation from God &c. should keep them from being Alienated from God; and so being actually to God, how not only will all the Holy Scriptures but all Mankinde, Iews and Gentiles call him a simple ane destroying Lyar?

An eighth Instance of Foxes poor, lame Answer is in Page 27.Richard Baxter where he brings in Richard Baxter, saying [To say that any is perfect and without sin is the Devil speaking in man:] G. Fox Answers, contrary to the language of the Apostles and Christ, who bid them be perfect, and the Apostle spake Wisdome, among them that be perfect: and …aid they were made free from sin, and it is the Devil speaking in man that speaks for sin while Men are upon the Earth, for the Devil holds him up that makes men not perfect which Truth makes men free again from the Devil, & speaks in Man, and says be perfect.

I Reply,The matters of perfection (whether this willingly ignorant Soul knows or no) I know that the Devil knows that there is a Fallacie in this word Perfection. 1. Sometime in Scripture, it signifies no more then Sincerity & Uprightness, p. 302(and so is translated) sometimes Compleatness & Fulness in its kinde, though but in a small Vessel; sometimes Fortified, Strong & Armed; and sometimes the Fulness of the Godhead, to whose incomprehensible Ocean not one Drop can be given, nor one Drop taken from him. In Mat. 5. Be ye Perfect, &c We are not exhorted [198] to be equal with God in Holiness, for that is to be God our selves, and being set down in the throne of the Godhead, to thrust the Eternal God out, for there can be but one in the Throne of the Godhead: But we are commanded to labour to be like unto God who not only is kinde to his Friends but his Enemies also: As when we are bid to be like the Sun to shine upon the Bad as well as the Good: will a sober Soul imagine that we are bid to be as Pure, as Glorious, as Vast, as Swift as the Sun is: but the Spirit tells us of a Generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet are not cleansed from their filthiness. Yea, but saith Fox, Paul spake Wisdome amongst them that were perfect,Phil. 3. about perfectionPhil 3 Phil 3. I answer, what if the Translators had turned that word among them that be strong intelligent, capacious as the word often, and there signifies, why doth Paul also speaking of such a strength or capacity as the Saints may attain to in this life profess that he was yet (as it were but clambring up the Hill) this is the vote of all the highest Saints in Scripture lamenting their Brethren and11Erase "Brethren and." R. W. Ms. Ann. Inabilities, and the Battle between the old Man and the new: Of which Battle G. Fox and his Foxians know not: for Sathan having Possession p. 303all is in peace. It hath been ever known that all Gods Children are like high and glorious Queens & Empresses who wittingly endure, not as the Holy Scripture speaks) that such an ugly Fiend as the Devil should touch them, no not in an evil thought. 3. They are like Fields & Gardens in which the Husbandman and Gardiner allows not,The estate of Gods Children upon Earth nor endures not a Weed but with grief and endeavour of their extirpation. 4. And this is far from being Proctors and Advocates for sin (as G. Fox most simply and impudently urgeth) for the known truth is, that Fox and his Foxians fall most foolishly and fiercely upon such as profess most holiness, most sincerity, and most Mortification, most love to God, and his only begotten the Spirit of Holiness, & the Holy Scriptures or written Will of God.

A ninth Instance is in page 28. where G. Fox. tells how the same Author preached an external word [Which the Scripture speaks not of,Richard Baxter but of the word that lives, abides and endures for ever, and of the Scriptures of Truth that cannot be broken: and of Gods words and Christs words, and that is not external: this is not agreeable to sound words that cannot be condemned: but that is like his Doctrine that knows not the Eternal: but the Ministers of Christ did not tell of an external word, but you being made by the will of man speaks to the People of an external word.]

I Reply, The word (whether external, internal, or eternal) is a [199] similitude, for we know God hath no Mouth, nor Tongue, nor Words as we have: but as Kings, and Generals of Armies or Navies, or any Commanders in chief signifie their p. 304minds by Speech, by Writing, yea by sign (at a distance) this Word or will, which was before in the Kings breast, and internal is now outward or external. Hence Christ Jesus above all other wayes of Gods manifesting himself externally or outwardly is called the Word of God, and the Word which was God. Hence in common speech we call our Thoughts our selves [So I think, &c. this is my Word, my Vote, or Mind.]

And as it is the Field: If a General himself who first gave the external Word from his own internal Thoughts:The great consequence of a word if he forget the word in the night a common Sentinel will make him stand, or fire upon him: and shall men be so careful in these transitory businesses, and shall we suffer open Enemies to the true Lord Jesus presumptuously to pass without the external word or mind of God, and audaciously to deny such a word at all to be? When Christ Jesus Luke 4 spake out of the Prophet Isaiah: and when Paul disputed three Sabbath dayes out of the Scriptures, and when Apollos mightily convinced the Iews from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ, did they not use external, audible Expoundings and Applyings of that written word or mind of God as the external and outward manifestation of his internal and eternal holy Pleasure.

A tenth Instance is in page 32.Ellis Bradshaw where G. Fox brings in Ellis Bradshaw saying [The Quakers Spirit doth teach them to honour no Man.] He Answers, [That is a Lye: for it teacheth them to have all Men in esteem, and to honour all men in the Lord; yet they are convinced by the Law to be Transgressors if they respect Mens persons as you doe]

p. 305I Reply, I have spoken of their proud and lofty behaviour toward all men, the Highest, the Eldest, the Holyest, upon the 10th. Position, of their Pride &c. and therefore briefly say, 1. That all men may see how truely they honour and esteem all men in the Lord, and what Lord and honour it is that they mean: when G. F. his first word to his Opposite is in that most provoking Term, viz. [That is a Lye] in his very pleading and the very first words of it.The honor which the Quakers give to others It is true Christ Jesus and his Servants the Prophets and Apostles used sharp and bitter Reproofs, Similitudes &c. but thus suddenly at the first dash to give fire Thou Lyest, That is a Lye &c. It shews neither Religion nor Civility but a Barbarous Spirit, for they that know the Barbarians know how common that word is in all their mouths. Tis true of late divers of Fox his followers have followed him in courtesie [200] looking toward you, taking you by the hand, bowing and half uncovering the head more or less &c. But this is but a Revolt and Apostacy from their first Rigid Spirit and Cariage as Humphrey Norton rightly maintains against them. Yea. 2. it is against all Foxes and their first Writings, and this very place of Iames here urged, viz. they are convinced by the Law if they respect mens Persons.

Again, tis true in Christ Jesus there is neither Bond nor Free, Male nor Female, and consequently no Master no Man, no Father no Child no King no Subject, but all are one in Christ Jesus, and the second Birth: as all are of one kinde in the first Adam, and the first Birth.

p. 3061. Yet first how full is the Holy Scripture of Commands and Examples of Gods Children,Civil respect giving respective Words and Titles, and Bowings, even to persons that knew not God? 2. Fox grants difference of gifts, and saith that some (in comparison of others of them not so grown, &c. are Elders, & sure this is some respect of persons, according to that of the 1 Cor. 12. Are all Apostles, are all Prophets, are all Teachers, &c. Therefore how ever they Hypocritically lye, and pretend to honour all men in the Lord: yet the most Holy and only Wise knows how proudly, and simply, and barbarously they have run into uncivil and inhumane Behaviours towards all their Superiours, the eldest and highest, how that they have declared by principle and practice, that there are no Men to be respected in the World but themselves as being Gods and Christs. Tis true our English Bibles and Grammar (as Fox his great Learning often objects) makes thou to a single person, and Thou in Holy Scripture is used in a grave and respective way unto Superiours, unto Kings, and Parents, and God himself: But 1. (As I have said) the Hebrew and the Greek signifie no more Thou then You, and so may be truely turned.Thou & Thee 2. Every Nation, every Shire, every Calling have their particular Properties or Idioms Speech, which are improper and ridiculous with others: Hence these simple Reformers are extreamly ridiculous in giving Thou and Thee to every body, which our Nation commonly gives to Familiars only; and they are extreamly and insufferably proud and contemptuous unto all their Superiours p. 307in using Thou to every body which our English Ideom or propriety of speech useth in way of familiarity or of Anger,Incivilities ought to be moderately punisht Scorn and Contempt. I have therefore publickly declared my self, that a due and moderate restraint and punishing of these incivilities (though pretending Conscience) is as far from Persecution (properly so called) as that it is a Duty and Command of God unto all mankinde, first in Families, and thence into all mankinde Societies.

201] Having thus through Gods mercifull help gone through the 13th Position in publick and this private supply of some few Instances of their Lame writings of out G. F, reserving the liberty (if God please) of presenting the Reader with a further Apendix or Addition of some few further Instances out of G. Fox his Writings. I hasten to the 14 Proposition, the last of the seven at Providence. They read it publickly, viz. the spirit of the Quakers tends mainly to the reducing of Persons from Civility to Barbarisme,The 14. Position debated. to an Arbitrary Government, and the Dictates and Decrees of that sudden Spirit that acts them. 3. To a sudden cutting off of People yea of Kings and Princes that oppose them. and 4. To as fierce and fiery Persecution in matters of Conscience as hath been, or can be practised by any Hunters or Persecutors in the World.

I told them I could adde more Branches to this Head, as unto the peace and civil Societyes of Mankind in the world: but I remembred my promise of Brevity, and W. E. was often remembring me sayinge Is this thy Quarter of an hour? for I believe p. 308they stood here upon Coals and were not willing that I should insist upon it my full Quarter; and they hasted me on to prove that their spirit tended to Barbarisme: they said (one and an other) that their spirit was an Holy Spirit, W E. &c standing upon coals.the Spirit of God, and the Grace of God had appeared to all men and had taught them to deny all ungodliness and wordly lusts, and to live soberly, righteously & godly in this present world.

I told them that in our Native Countrey, and in all civilized Countreys, the civility, Courteous Speech Courteous Salutation, and respective Behaviour was generally practised, opposite to the cariage of Barbarous & Unciviliz'd People. Civility and Courtesie.This I said was according to the command of the holy Spirit in Paul Eph 4. and in Peter, 1. Pet 3. Be pitifull, be Courteous, &c. Such a Spirit was Christ Jesus of, even to his greatest Opposites, and to the greatest Sinners, insomuch that for his Courtesie & Gentleness & Sociableness with open Sinners, the dogged proud and sullen Pharises counted him a Drunkard and Glutton, a friend and Companion of Publicans and sinners. We English were our selves at first wild and savage Britains: Gods mercy had civilized us, and we were now come into a wild and savage Countrey, without Manners, without Courtesie, so that generally except you begin with a What Chear or some other Salutation, N. Eng. one work to civilize a Barbarous People.you had as good meet an Horse or a Cow, &c. And hath not the Quaker …pirit been such a Spirit amongst us? have we not known persons formerly loving, courteous &c. and as soon as this Spirit hath come upon them have not our eyes seen p. 309them pass by their Familiars, their Kindred, [202 their Elders and Superiours, and though kindly spoken to, not give a Word or a Look toward them? as if they were not worthy of a word or a look from such High Saints &c.The Quakers monstrous Incivility. How like indeed have they been to the Popish Saints in a Procession, they See not, Hear not, Speak not &c.? or like these very Barbarians, and therefore I said, 2. G. Fox in his book affirms that the Conversation of these very Barbarians, in many things were better then his Opposites &c. I mused in my self (being much acquainted with the Natives) what G. Fox should mean, he not having been in N. England when he wrote that passage; but since I have heard that the Quakers have commended the spirit of the Indians, for they have seen them come into English Houses and sit down by the fire,The Indians and Quakers of one Spirit. not speaking a word to any body: But this cariage of the Indians proceeds from a bruitish spirit, for generally they have boldly come in without Knocking or asking of leave, and sit down without any respect in word or gesture to the Governour or chief of the Family whosoever (just the Quakers general fashion and Spirit)

Further I told them, that in some respect the spirit and cariage of the Quakers was worse then that of the Indians, for if they were sd by the English in the high-way or coming into an House, they are very ready to receive your Salutation kindly, and return you another: But commonly we know that it is not so with the Quakers bruitish spirit. 2. The Indians morning and evening, and upon all meetings, they give a respective and p. 310proper Salutation to their own Superiours, and sometimes in gesture as well as speech. 3. Although the Indians are bruits in their Nakedness both men and women, yet they never appear (no not in private houses) stark naked as the Quaker men and women doe: yea they so abhor such a bruitishness, (except it be in their mad Drunkenness, for then they will be stark naked) that as to their Female kind, they will carefully from their birth keep on some modest covering before them. W. E. rose up and said they did abhor Uncleaness as well as our selves or any, their women were sober, holy and Modest, and would not endure (some of them) to have a Toe to be seen naked: but he said if the Lord God did stir up any of his Daughters to be a Sign of the nakedness of others he believed it to be a great Cross to a Modest womans Spirit,The Quakers again maintain their womens Nakedness. but the Lord must be obeyed. Iohn Stubs immediately seconded him, and quoted again the Command to Isaiah, Chap. 20. to go naked, & he added, whereas I said at Newport that it was in the time of Signs, Types, Figures &c. He would now prove that all Signs were not abolished by the coming of Christ; for Agabus Act. 20. took Pauls [203] girdle and bound himself. I replyed that was indeed one of my Replyes at Newport, and I was yet far from binding the sweet Influences of the holy One by Dreams, Visions, immediate Impulses Revelations, Signs &c. but withall I said that before the coming of the Lord Iesus and at his coming was the time and season of such Appearances from God:Signs and Figures discussed. now he hath fully declared his mind to us by the Personal p. 311and most wonderfull coming of his Son out of his Bosome: who had commanded his Pen-men to write his Birth, his Life, his Life his Doctrine his Miracles, his Death, Resurrection, Asscension and promise of Return to us: he had also preserved these holy Writings & Records most wonderfully that (Ioh 20) We might believe in him, follow him and live with him. But 2. I said what did this concern the monstrous stripping their women naked, of which we never heard a tittle either at coming of the Lord Jesus, or in those proper seasons of such Administrations before his Appearance. The Quakers spirit enraged.Iohn Stubs said he had been a Quaker 19 years and yet had never seen a woman Naked, and some of the Quakers said to me aloud, when didst thou see any of our women Naked? and another of them said, We did not think that thou wouldest have been such a wicked man. These two (though of the Quakers spirit) yet of long time had been Loving and respecttive to me, but now they were enraged, so that I said unto my Antagonists, seeing some Heat is risen about these matters, I will if you please go on to the second Branch of this 14th Position. The Quakers spirit tending to Arbetrary Government.I told them the 2d. Branch was,

That the Spirit of the Quakers tendeth to bring in an Arbetrary Government. I said we all knew how it had cost the blood of thousands & ten Thousands this matter of Goverment & Lawes: that the Most High & only Wise choosing one People and Nation of Israel to be his own, he wrote them Laws (some with his own inconceivable finger written) and some by Moses his inspired Pen-man, it pleased him not p. 312to leave their Wisest and Holyest Kings & Governours without written known Lawes, with Rewards and Penaltyes annexed. But I argued if that were true that all the Quakers were guided in all they said and did by the immediate Spirit of God (as I proved Fox maintained) then if they obtain higher or lower Governours of their Spirits, Surely it shines cleer that there is no need of Laws for them to rule & act by,The Quakers have no need of Scripture much less of the written Laws of men for they had no need of Scripture, and seing the Immediate Inspirations of God would not suffer them to erre in Judgment, for as they said of the holy Scripture, they had no need of it, for they had the holy Scripture within them, their Teacher within them, and all that they spake was Scripture, and the voice of God, &c. So I said much more [204] might it be said of Mens Laws & Writings; that surely they had no need of them: for what could be more just and equal, more pure & holy in all Cases Controversies & Businesses, then the immediate Voice of God? W. E. said, what dost thou fill peoples ears with strange Notions, as if the People of God called Quakers were a lawless people and would bring all Government and all Laws to nothing? We are for righteous Goverment, and righteous Lawes, we are not for any to rule by Force, and more he spake to this purprse.

I Replyed,The Quakers & none else in the World fit for Gonrnment as they judge that he mistook me, by an Arbetrary Goverment I did not intend a Goverment ruling by Force (for there could be no Goverment in the world without the Sword) but Arbitrary I said came from Arbitrium which signified Will or pleasure: and so my Argument was, that Persons immediately p. 313speaking from God, it was impertinent and profane to clog and cumber them with Lawes, for the Voice of God (the Law of all Laws) proceeded out of their mouth, then which there could be none more Just, more Wise, more Holy.

Here stood up an Aged man (and as able as most in the company, T. A.) though much of late adhering to the Quakers and said, Methinks there is Weight in Mr. VVilliams his Argument. He being a noted man, and his voice very audible (and so heard by all) VV. E. was forced to take notice of his speech, and said, wherein is there any weight in it? T. A. Answered, why if a Magistrate be immediately inspired by God, T A his Testimonyand speaks Gods Laws & Sentence, sure there seems to be no need of any other Laws. They saw they were in a Pound, and I perceived it, and yet (not being willing to grate upon them but) watching my time (as I was glad all along) to pass handsomly from one Point unto another, I said unto them: if they pleased I would pass on to the Third Branch, The 3d. Branchviz. That the Quakers Spirit tending to the sudden cutting off of People, yea, Kings and Princes that oppose them. I here told them that I must crave their patience whiles I must profess my fears, least that Spirit by which they were guided, might run them upon their own and others temporal Destruction. I told them I thought they had no such thing in their Thoughts or Eye at present: but if power of the Sword come into their hand, it was easie to imagine that whom their Spirit (infallible) decreed to death, Peasant or Prince, if it were possible, he must be executed, p. 314&c. W. Edm. said, Thou here makest a false and lying charge against the People of God, who are peaceable and quiet and yielding to Magistrates, &c. I Replied, I charge them with no matter of Facts: but I charge them and their Spirit with a tendency, &c. For why [205] might they not say, that Abraham, with an impulse was killing Isaak, Moses the Egyptian, Ehud killing Eglon the King of Moab, Samuel hewing Agag the King of Amelech in pieces, and Paul, Ananias and Saphira, &c. and why not Sathan stir up his Instruments to pretend the like Spirit, as we know he hath done both in former & latter days?

My Antagonists joyntly bid me shew when any of the Quakers had done so:Immediate impulses I Answ. They spake not to the point, &c. for I did not charge them to have done so, but that their Spirit tended to it: I was saying that Faubord at Grindleton was killlng his Son in imitation of Abraham, if his Sons crying out, and the breaking open of the House had not prevented: and that Iames Parnel moved by this Spirit to Fast forty dayes, &c. perished the eleventh day, &c. but perceiving more than ordinary heats, and that W. Edm. charged me that I had a false heart of mine own, and would measure others by my bushel: I told them of the wonderful actings of Tho. Munster, and I. Becold, and Fifer & Knipperdoling, &c. in Germany, and of their Pretences, Murthers, Poligamies, and all by the Spirit, &c.The Kings Grandfather H. 4. of France murthered upon pretence of a vision of Angels I told them that our Royal Sovereign his Grandfather Henry 4th of France (that famous and wonderful Man) he was stab'd to death by a Frier p. 315pretending a Vision of Angels on Christmas night, who commanded him from God to dispatch and kill the King, which he most desperately effected. W. Edm. interrupted me, and spake (to this effect) why should we suffer this man thus to wrong the innocent people of God? we will measure him with his own Bushel: For thy Book declares thy approving of the killing of the Kings Father, and said where is the Book? At which word W. Harris (a Fire-brand of Town, and Colony & Country) rose up, and carried a Book (which they said was mine) to W. Edmundson: W. Edm. & W. Harris their mallice towards meI perceived that W. Edm. & W. H. who was for any Religion, and a malicious mortal enemy to all good, had been a plotting: and I said openly I knew what malicious bloody counsel had been between W. Har. and themselves: but they would finde themselves befooled, for there was nothing in the matter but ridiculous malice: for all of us knew that W. H. loved the Quakers (whom now he fawn'd upon) no more then he did the Baptists (whom he till now fawn'd on) but would love any, as a Dog for his Bone, for Land, which he had a long Suit for as was known to all the Country and their cost. Hereupon Capt. Green of Warwick (Magistrate) desired that such matters might be forborn, and others spake to the same purpose: and I, Stubs and others are said to speak to W. Edm. to forbear, so that the Book was laid aside and delivered again to that [206] malicious bloody Soul W. Harris. I challenged them again and again to read and improve what possibly they could, which I knew was no more then fome p. 316words applauding the Parliaments Iustice and Mercy: which these Bloody Sophisters would (like Wolves & Foxes construe as my approving the Kings Death, which God knows I never approved to this day. Upon this Occasion I may now inform the Reader, how easily the malicious Spirit of W. Edm. W Harris his character and practise& W. Har. met in one: formerly no man amongst us had spoken more scornfully of the Quakers then W Harris, now he extreamly, privately and publickly fawns upon them, seeing them my Enemies, who had ever been his Friend, and never his Enemy but in his outragious practises against Town, & Colony & Country. He was a Pretender in Old England, but in New my experience hath told me, that he can be one with the Quakers, yea Iesuits or Mahumetans for his own worldly ends and advantage. He is long known to have put Scorns & Ieers upon the eminent Inhabitants of Town and Country. He hath been notorious for quarrelling, and challenging, and fighting, even when he pretended with the Quakers against Carnal Weapons; so that there stands upon Record in the Town-book of Providence an Act of Disfranchisement upon him, for fighting and shedding Blood in the street,W H & the Q the higher powers as they simply affirm and for maintaining and allowing it (for ought I know) to this day. Then he turns Generallist, and writes against all Magist-ates, Laws, Courts, Charters, Prisons, Rates, &c. pretending himself and his Saints to be the Higher Powers (as now the Quakers do) and in publick writings he stir'd up the People (most seditiously and desperately threatning to begin with the Massachusets) and to cry out no Lords, no Masters, p. 317as is yet to be seen in his Writing: this cost my self and the Colony much trouble. Then (as the Wind favoured his ends) no man more cries up Magistrates: then not finding that pretence, nor the People called Baptists (in whom he confided) serving his ends. He flies to Connecticut Colony (then and still in great Contest with us) in hopes to attain his gaping about Land from them, if they prevail over us: to this end he in publick Speech and Writing applauds Connecticut Charter and damns ours, and his Royal Majesties favour also for granting us favour (as to our Consciences) which he largely endeavours by writing to prove the K. Majesty by Laws could not do. My self (being in place) by Speech & Writing opposed him, & Mr. B. Arnold then Governour, and Mr. Io. Clark Deputy Governour, Capt. Cranstone and all the Magistrates, he was Committed for speaking & writing against his Majesties Honour, Prerogative, & Authority: He 207] lay some time in Prison until the General Assembly, where the Quaker (by his wicked, ungodly, and disloyal plots) prevailing, he by their means gets loose, and leaves open a door for any man to challenge the Kings Majesty for being too Godly or Christian, in being too favourable to the Souls of his Subjects against his Laws, &c.

I had thought to have declared thus much publickly,W Edm. his ignorant and impudent zeal and upbraidings and how seasonably the Kings Declaration came over against him: also how that one General Assembly, and another, and another had been troubled with him, &c. and fined him, &c. but now my Lord Edmundson grew hot, and told me that I p. 318had charged the People of the Lord with many great and grievous Charges, which he said I could not prove, yea, he said he would speak it before the Lord, I had not proved one of them, and therefore he warned me, being an old Man, that I should not carry such a Burden on my back to my Grave, and (among other angry insultings) he said he heard I had been a Magistrate, and said I was a fit man to be a Magistrate that would so wrongfully charge the Innocent. Io. Stubs spake to the same effect, and how I had hindred them from going about the work of the Lord: he said also, that it was only the Light which they had spoke for, and that some had interrupted them, but he confest that Roger Williams himself had not done it: I saw God in their Confession.

And for the last point and Branch of the 14 Position, The point of persecutionviz. [Their Persecuting Spirit) having spoken to it before, and finding them unwilling to mention it, I urged it not, having (at Newport) shewed from Page 170 of G. Fox his Book, [That the Magistrate (that is the Magistrate in their Light) ought to Subject the Nation to his Light, else he is not a faithful Magistrate.] In page 90. & 96. G. Fox. sets up his Saints (as formerly.So many Quak. so many Popes W. Harris his Antagonists) to be the higher Powers, as knowing who Worship God aright, and who not, and only able to judge of Powers, Magistrates, Kingdomes and Churches. Herein W. H. and the Quakers are one, The pretended meekness of the Quakers.&c. It is true that W. Edm. declared that the People of God were not to meddle with Carnal Weapons: as also that before time, many of the People of God called p. 319Quakers, had been Souldiers, Captains and Colonels, yet now coming to the Light, they had laid down their Carnal Weapons: but if Fox say true in his Book, either they Mope or Equivocate: for Fox speaks of the Magistrates for Christ in the aforesaid Page 170. he discerns who be Idolaters, who not, which true Churches, which not, and are to praise the VVell Doers, and terrifie the Evill Doers with the Carnal and Material Sword, or else they talk nothing.

208] But 2. If this Confession & Profession of theirs were not; yet if Chrst Jesus say true, viz. The Tongue tells to all the World what the Heart is: was there ever People professing the Name of Christ Jesus (except the Papists) so Reproaching the Protestants, The tongue of the Quakers is the Vipers what will their hand beand amongst the Protestants was there any ever so Reproaching & Reviling the Professing and Conscientious People as Quakers do: was there ever any known (professing the fear of God in so high a measure) so sharp and cutting in their Tongues even to eminently, knowing and Conscientious persons, [Thou Lyar, thou Serpent, thou Cain, thou Judas thou Hipocrite, thou Devil] &c. Shall we rationally question whether their hands (like Simeons and Levyes) will not be as fierce and cruel, if the most holy and only Wise permits Whips & Halters, The Quakers common languageSwords & Fagots to fall into their Hands? and what did Sam. Fisher, & Ed. Burrowes write less to the Souldiers at Dunkirk, that if they received the light they should on to Rome.

3. Have we not known the deceitfulness of mens hearts fly out into greater matters then Persecution? p. 320Hazael earnestly asked whether the Prophet thought him a Dog that he should doe such matters &c.The cheating of mans heart Pendleton vow'd his Collops should fry ere he would to Mass in Q Maryes dayes, and yet to Mass he went and persecuted others also that would not bow to the Image as he had done.

Just here Capt Green of Warwick desired leave to speak to two things,

1. To immediate Revelations, such as Abraham and Moses and Ehud had.

2. As to the Soul being a part of God:Capt Green his 2 points with my Antagonist I was weary and withdrew, but afterward Capt. Green told me that none of them were willing to speak punctualy to either of these two, but rather desired to wave them as a bstruse and high matters and Mysteryes.

Then Pardon Tillinghast (a leading man among the People called Baptists at Providence) he prest against them the continuation of Christs Ordinances untill he came.Pardon Tillinghast his discourse with my Opposite The Quakers said Christ was come again to his Disciples. He replyed, that after Christs Ascention he spake of another Coming, his second Coming, Heb 9. W. E. fel to Prayer, (as with me he ftl to Preaching) Pardon Tillinghast (as himself told me) declared to them, that he was free to discourse with them, but he was not free to joyn with them in Worship: so he departed, and after W E. his Prayer, the whole Assembly.

And thus it pleased the God and Father of Lights and Mercyes to bring us to the end of this 4th dayes Contest,The Conclusion was ordered by the Father of Mercies with much peace and quietness which had not been if I had ininsulted & upbraided as W Edm. did. and the end of the whole matter, p. 321in much Peace and Quietness, and the Consideration of matters left to every mans Soul, and Conscience, and so doe I this Narrative, which God knows is the Sum and Substance of all our Transactions:

Unto his Eternal Majesty therefore I humbly offer Eternal Praise, by and in the Eternal Son of God, the true Lord Iesus Christ: whome I desire joyfully to expect to return from Heaven, as literally and personally as all true Christians hold (Act. 1.) he is ascended.