The Bloody Tenant of Persecution for the Cause of Conscience, Part 3 · Chapter 67 – Chapter 73
CHAP. LXVII.
IN the second place I answer and aske, what glory to God what good to the soules or bodies of their subjects shall Princes, did these Princes bring in persecuting? &c.
Peace.
Mr. Cotton tells us in his discourse upon the third Violl, In his opening of the 7. Viols, in print. Mr. Cotton confesseth that Queen Elizabeth her persecuting the Papists, had almost ruined the English Nation.that Queene Elizabeth had almost fired the world in civill combustions by such her pe…secuting: For, though hee bring it in to another end, yet he confesseth that it raised all Christendome in combustion, raised the Warres of 88. and the Spanish Invasion: and he addes (both concerning the English Nation and the Dutch) that if God had not born witnesse to his people, and their Laws, in defeating the intendments of their enemies against both the Nations, it might have beene the ruine of them both.
Truth.
That those Lawes and Practices of Queene Elizabeth raised those combustions in Christendome I deny not: That they might likely have cost the ruine of English and Dutch I grant.
That it was Gods gracious worke in defeating the Intendments of their enemies I thankfully acknowledge.The Wars betweene the Papists and the Protestants. But that God bore witnesse to such persecutions and lawes for such persecutions I deny, for
First, event and successe come alike to all, and are no Arguments of love or hatred, &c.
Secondly, the Papists in their warres have ever yet had both in Peace and War victory and dominion; and therefore (if successe be the measure) God hath borne witnesse unto them.
It is most true what Daniel in his 8. and 11. and 12. Chapters, and Iohn in his Revel. 11. 12. and 13. Chapters write of the great successe of Antichrist against Christ Iesus for a time appointed.
Successe was various betweene Charles the fift and some German Princes:Eventus omnis …. Philip of Spaine and the Low Countries: The French King and his Protestant Subjects, sometimes losing, sometimes winning, interchangeably.
But most memorable is the famous history of the Wald…nses and Albingenses, those famous Witnesses of Iesus Christ, who rising from Wald… at Lyons in France (1160.) spread over France, The wars and successe of the Walden…an witnesses against three Popes and their popish Armies.Italy, Germany, and almost all Countries, into thousands and ten thousands, making separation from the Pope and Church of Rome. These fought many Battels with various successe, and had the assistance and protection of divers great Princes against three succeeding Popes and their Armies, but after mutuall slaughters and miseries to both sides, the finall successe of victory fell to the Popedome and Romish Church in the utter extirpation of those famous Waldensian witnesses.
Gods servants are all overcommers when they war with Gods weapons in Gods cause and Worship: and Revel. 2. and 3. Chapters, seven times is it recorded,Gods people victorious overcommers, and with what weapons. To him that overcommeth in Ephesus, To him that overcommeth in Sardis, &c. and Revel. 12. Gods servants overcame the Dragon or Devill in the Romane Emperours by three weapons, The blood of the Lambe, The word of their Testimony, and The not loving of their lives unto the death.
CHAP. LXVIII.
Peace.
THe Answerer in the next place descends to the third and last Head of Arguments produced by the Authour, The third head of Arguments from ancient and later writers.taken from the judgement of ancient and later Writers, yea even of the Papists themselves, who have condemned persecution for conscience sake: some of which the Answerer pleaseth to answer, and thus writeth.
You begin with Hilarie, The Christian Church doth not persecute, but is persecuted.whose testimony without prejudice to the Truth we may admit: For it is true, the Christian Church doth not persecute, but is persecuted.
But to excommunicate an Hereticke is not to persecute, that is, it is not to punish an innocent, but a culpable and damnable person, and that not for conscience, but for persisting in errour against light of conscience, whereof he hath beene convinced.
Truth.
In this Answer here are two things.
First, his confession of the same Truth affirmed by Hilarius, to wit, that the Christian Church doth not persecute, but is persecuted: su…ing wi…h that fo…eg…ing observation of King Iames from Rev. 20.
Peace.
Yet to this he addes a colour thus: which, saith he, wee may admit without prejudice to the truth.
Truth.
I answer,Persecuting … cannot be Christs Churches. if it bee a marke of the Christian Church to bee persecuted, and of the Antichristian o… false Church to persecute, then those Churches cannot be truly Christian (according to the first institution) which either actually themselves, or by the Civill power of Kings and Princes given to them (or procured by them to fight for them) doe persecute such as dissent from them or be opposite against them.
Peace.
Yea, but in the second place he addeth, that to excommunicate an Heretick, is not to persecute, but to punish him for sinning against the light of his own conscience, &c.
Truth.
I answer, if this worthy Answerer were throughly awaked from the Spouses spirituall slumber, (Cant. 5.) and had recovered from the drunkennesse of the great Whore, who intoxicateth the Nations, Revel. 17. It is impossible that he should so answer: for.
First,The nature of excommunication. who questioneth, whether to excommunicate an Heretick, (this is, an obstinate Gainsayer) as we have opened the word upon Tit. 3.) I say, who questioneth whether that be to persecute? Excommunication being of a spirituall nature, a Sentence denounced by the Word of Christ Iesus the Spirituall King of his Church; and a Spirituall killing by the most sharpe two-edged Sword of the Spirit, in delivering up the person excommunicate to Sathan. Therefore who sees not that his Answer comes not neere our Question?
Peace.
In the Answerers second conclusion (in the entrance of this Discourse) he proves persecution against an Heretick for sinning against his conscience, and quotes Tit. 3. 10. which only proves (as I have there made it evident) a Spirituall rejecting or excommunicating from the Church of God, and so comes not neer the question.
Here again he would prove Churches charged to be false, because they persecute: I say he would prove them not to be false, because they persecute not: for, saith he, Excommunication is not Persecution. Whereas the Question is (as the whole discourse, What persecution or hunting is.and Hilaries own amplification of the matter in this speech, and the practice of all Ages testifies) whether it be not a false Church that doth persecute other Churches or Members (opposing her in Spirituall and Church matter) not by Excommunications, but by imprisonments, stocking, whipping, sining, banishing, hanging, burning, &c. notwithstanding that such persons in Civill obedience and subjection are unreproveable.
Truth.
I conclude this passage with Hilarius and the Answerer, That the Christian Church doth not persecute; no more then a Lilie doth scratch the Thornes, Christs Spouse no…ser …tcher or fighter.or a Lambe pursue and teare the …olves, or a Turtle dove hunt the Hawkes and Eagles, or a chaste and modest Virgin fight and scratch like whores and harlots.
And for punishing the Heretick for sinning against his conscience after conviction, which in the second conclusion he affirmeth to be by a civill sword I have at large there answered.
CHAP. LXIX.
Peace.
IN the next place he selecteth one passage out of Hilarie, (although there are many golden passages there exprest against the use of Civill Earthly Powers in the Affaires of Christ.) The passage is this:
It is true also what he saith that neither the Apostles nor We may propogate Christian Religion by the Sword: Who cannot be won by the Word, must not be compelled by the Sword.but if Pagans cannot he won by the Word, they are not to be compelled by the Sword: Neverthelesse this hindreth not (saith he) but if they or any other should blaspheme the true God and his true Religion, they ought to be severely punished: and no lesse doe they deserve, if they seduce from the Truth to damnable Heresie or Idolatrie.
Truth.
In which Answer I observe, first his Agreement with Hilarie, that the Christian Religion may not be propagated by the Civill Sword.
Unto which I reply, and aske then what meanes this passage in his first answer to the former speeches of the Kings, viz. We acknowledge that none is to be constrained to beleeve or professe the true Religion, till he be convinced in judgement of the Truth of it: implying 2 things.
First, that the Civill Magistrate, who is to constraine with the Civill Sword, must judge all the Consciences of their Subjects, whether they be convinced or no.
Secondly, when the Civill Magistrate discerns that his Subjects consciences are convinced, then he may constraine them vi & armi…, hostily.
And accordingly,Constraine upon Consciences in Old and New England. the Civill State and Magistracie judging in spirituall things, who knowes not what constraint lies upon all consciences in Old and New England, to come to Church, and pay Church duties, which is upon the point (though with a sword of a finer gilt and trim in New England) nothing else but that which he confesseth Hilarie saith true, should not be done, to wit, a propagation of Religion by the Sword.
Againe, although he confesseth that propagation of Religion ought not to be by the sword: yet he maintaineth the use of the sword, when persons (in the judgement of the Civill State, for that is implied) blaspheme the true God, and the true Religion, and also seduce others to damnable Heresie and Idolatrie. Which because he barely affirmeth in this place, I shall defer my Answer unto the after Reasons of Mr Cotton and the Elders of New English Churches; where Scriptures are alleadged, and in that place (by Gods assistance) they shall be examined and answered.
CHAP. LXX.
Peace.
THe Answerer thus proceeds: Your next Writer is Tertullian, Tertullian his speech discussed.who speaketh to the same purpose in the place alleadged by you. His intent is only to restraine Scapula the Roman Governour of Africa, from persecuting the Christians, for not offering sacrifice to their Gods: and for that end, fetcheth an Argument from the Law of Naturall equity, not to compell any to any Religion, but permit them to believe or not to believe at all.
Which we acknowledge; and accordingly we judge, the English may permit the Indians to continue in their unbeliefe: neverthelesse it will not therefore be lawfull to tolerate the worship of Devils or Idols, to the seduction of any from the Truth.
Truth.
Answ. In this passage he agrees with Tertullian, and gives instance in America of the English permitting the Indians to continue in their unbeleefe: yet withall he affirmeth it not lawfull to tolerate worshipping of Devils, The Indians of New England permitted by the English not only to continue …n their unbele…f (which they can… …ure) but also in their f…lse worsh…p which they might by the civil sworrestraine.or seduction from the Truth.
I answer, that in New England it is well known that they not onelyonly permit the Indians to continue in their unbeliefe, (which neither they, nor all the Ministers of Christ on Earth, nor Angels in Heaven can helpe, not being able to worke beleefe) but they also permit or tolerate them in their Paganish worship, which cannot be denied to be a worshipping of Devils, as all false Worship is.
And therefore cons…quently …ccording to the same practice, did they walke by Rule and impartially, not onelyonly the Indians, but their Countrymen, French, Dutch, Spanish, Persians, Turkes, Iewes, &c. should also be permitted in their Worships, if correspondent in civill obedience.
Peace.
He addes further, when Tertullian saith, That another mans Religion neither hurteth nor profiteth any; It must be understood of private worship and Religion professed in private: otherwise a false Religion professed by the members of the Church, or by such as have given their names to Christ, will be the ruine and desolation of the Church, as appeareth by the threats of Christ to the Churches… Revel. 2.
Truth.
I answer (passing by that unsound distinction of members of the Church, or those that have given their Names to Christ, which in point of visible profession and Worship will appeare to be all one) it is plaine,
First, that Tertullian doth not there speake of private, but of publike Worship and Religion.
Secondly, Although it be true in a Church of Christ, that a false Religion or Worship permitted, will hurt, according to those threats of Christ, Revel. 2. Yet in 2 cases I believe a false Religion will not hurt (which is most like to have been Tertullians meaning)
First,In a cases a false Religion will not hurt the true Church, or the State. a false Religion out of the Church will not hurt the Church, no more then weedes in the Wildernesse hurt the inclosed Garden, or poyson hurt the body when it is not touched or taken, yea and antidotes are received against it.
Secondly, a false Religion and Worship will not hurt the Civill State, in case the worshippers breake no civill Law: and the Answerer (elswhere) acknowledgeth, that the civill Lawes not being broken, civill Peace is not broken: and this only is the Point in Question.
CHAP. LXXI.
Peace.
YOur next Authour (saith he) Ierome, crosseth not the Truth, nor advantageth your Cause; for we grant what he saith, that Heresie must be cut off with the sword of the Spirit: but this hinders not, but being so cut down… if the Heretick will persist in his Heresie, to the seduction of others, he may be cut off also by the Civill Sword,The seducing or infecting of others discussed. to prevent the perdition of others. And that to be Ieromes meaning, appeareth by his note upon that of the Apostle, (A little Leaven leaveneth the whole lumpe) Therefore (saith he) a sparke as soon as it appeareth, is to be extinguished, and the leaven to be removed from the rest of the dough; Rotten pieces of flesh are to be cut off, and a scabbed beast is to be driven from the sheepfold; lest the whole House, Body, masse of Dough, and Flock, be set on fire with the sparke, be putrified with the rotten slesh, sowred with the leaven, perish by the scabbed beast.
Truth.
I answer,The Answerer trus…eth not to the sword of the Spirit only in Spirituall causes. first, he granteth to Tertullian, that Heresie must be cut off with the sword of the Spirit: yet withall he maintaineth a cutting off by a second sword, the sword of the Magistrate; and conceiveth that Tertullian so meanes, because he quoteth that of the Apostle, A little leaven leaveneth the whole lumpe.
Answ. It is no Argument to prove that Tertullian meant a civill sword, by alleadging 1 Cor. 5. or Gal. 5. which properly and only app…ove a cutting off by the sword of the Spirit in the Church, and the purging out of the leaven in the Church in the Cities of Corinth and Galatia.
And if Tertullian should so meane as himselfe doth, yet
First,The absolute sufficiencie of the sword of the Spirit. that grant of his, that Heresie must be cut off with the sword of the Spirit, implies an absolute sufficiencie in the sword of the Spirit to cut it down, according to that mighty operation of Spirituall weapons, (2 Cor. 10. 4.) powerfully sufficient either to convert the Heretick to God, and subdue his very thoughts into subjection to Christ, or else spiritually to slay and execute him.
Secondly, it is cleare to be the meaning of the Apostle, and of the Spirit of God, not there to speake to the Church in Corinth or Galatia, The Church of Christ to be kept pure.or any other Church, concerning any other dough, or house, or body, or …lock, but the dough, the body, the house, the …lock of Christ his Church: Out of which such spa…ks, such leaven, such rotten slesh and scabbed sheep are to be avoided.
Nor could the eye of this worthy Answerer ever be so obscured, as to run to a Smiths shop for a Sword of iron and steale to helpe the Sword of the Spirit, A Nationall Church not inst…t…d by Christ Jesus.if the Sun of Righteousnesse had once been pleased to shew him, that a Nationall Church (which elsewhere he professeth against) a state Church (whether explicite, as in Ola England, or implicite, as in New) is not the Institution of the Lord Iesus Christ.
The Nationall typicall State-Church of the Iewes necessarily called for such weapons:The nationall Church of the Jewes. but the particular Churches of Christ in all parts of the World, consisting of Iewes or Gentiles, is powerfully able by the sword of the Spirit to defend it selfe, and …ffend Men or Devils, although the Stat… or Kingdome (wherein such a Church or Churches of Christ are gathered) have neither carnall speare nor sword, &c. 1 Sam. 13.as once it was in the Nationall Church of the Land of Canaan.
CHAP. LXXII.
Peace.
BReutius (whom you next quote,Man hath no power to m…ke lawes to binde conscience. saith he) speaketh not to your cause. Wee willingly grant you, that man hath no power to make Lawes to binde conscience, but this hinders not, but men may see the Lawes of God observed which doe binde conscience.
Truth.
I answer, In granting with Breutius that man hath not power to make Lawes to binde conscience, hee overthrowes such his tenent and practice as restraine men from their Worship, according to their Conscience and beleefe, and constraine them to such worships (though it bee out of a pretence that they are convinced) which their owne soules tell them they have no satisfaction nor faith in.
Secondly, whereas he affirmeth that men may make Lawes to see the Lawes of God observed.
I answer, as God needeth not the helpe of a materiall sword of steele to assist the sword of the Spirit in the affaires of conscience, so those men, those Magistrates, yea that Commonwealth which makes such Magistrates, must needs have power and authority from Christ Iesus to sit Iudge and to determine in all the great controversies concerning doctrine, discipline, government, &c.
And then I aske,Desperate consequences unavoidable. whether upon this ground it must not evidently follow, that
Either there is no lawfull Commonwealth nor civill State of men in the world, which is not qualified with this spirituall discerning: (and then also that the very Commonweale hath more light concerning the Church of Christ, then the Church it selfe.)
Or, that the Commonweale and Magistrates thereof must judge and punish as they are perswaded in their owne beleefe and conscience, (be their conscience Paganish, Turkish, or Antichristian) what is this but to confound Heaven and Earth together, and not onelyonly to take away the being of Christianity out of the World, but to take away all civility, and the world out of the world, and to lay all upon heapes of confusion?
CHAP. LXXIII.
Peace.
THe like answer (saith he) may bee returned to Luther, Luthers testimony in this case discussed.whom you next alledge.
First, that the government of the civill Magistrate extendeth no further then over the bodies and goods of their subjects, not over their soules, and therefore they may not undertake to give Lawes unto the soules and consciences of men.
Secondly, that the Church of Christ doth not use the Arme of secular power to compell men to the true profession of the truth, for this is to be done with spirituall weapons, whereby Christians are to be exhorted, not compelled. But this (saith hee) hindreth not that Christians sinning against light of faith and conscience, may justly be censured by the Church with excommunication, and by the civill sword also, in case they shall corrupt others to the perdition of their soules.
Truth.
I answer, in this joynt confession of the Answerer with Luther, to wit, that the government of the civill Magistrate extendeth no further then over the bodies and goods of their subjects, not over their soules: who sees not what a cleare testimony from his own mouth and pen is given, to wit, that either the Spirituall and Church estate, the preaching of the Word, and the gathering of the Church, the Baptisme of it, the Ministry, Government and Administrations thereof belong to the civill body of the Commonweale? that is, to the bodies and goods of men, which seemes monstrous to imagine: Or else that the civill Magistrate cannot (without exceeding the bounds of his office) meddle with those spirituall affaires.
Againe,Mr. Cottons positions evidently proved contradictory to themselves. necessarily must it follow, that these two are contradictory to themselves: to wit,
The Magistrate power extends no further then the bodies and goods of the subject, and yet
The Magistrates must punish Christians for sinning against the light of faith and conscience, and for corrupting the soules of men.
The Father of Lights make this worthy Answerer and all that feare him to see their wandring in this case, not only from his feare, but also from the light of Reason it selfe, their owne convictions and confessions.
Secondly, in his joint confession with Luther, that the Church doth not use the secular power to compell men to the Faith and Profession of the truth, he condemneth (as before I have observed)
First, his former Implication, viz… that they may bee compelled when they are convinced of the truth of it.
Secondly, their owne practice, who suffer no man of any different conscience and worship to live in their jurisdiction, except that he depart from his owne exercise of Religion and Worship differing from the worship allowed of in the civill State, yea and also actually submit to come to their Church.
Which howsoever it is coloured over with this varnish,Hearing of the Word of God in a Church estate a part of Gods worship. viz. that men are compelled no further then unto the hearing of the word, unto which all men are bound: yet it will appeare that teaching and being taught in a Church estate is a Church worship, as true and proper a Church worship as the Supper of the Lord, Act. 2. 46.
Secondly, all persons (Papist and Protestant) that are conscientious, have alwayes suffered upon this ground especially, that they have refused to come to each others Church or Meeting.