Trial of the Charge of High Treason, Day 2
The ſecond dayes proceedings, July the 21. 1651.
The Court being ſate, Col. Weſt Lieutenant of the Tower was commanded to bring forth his Priſoner, and Mr. Love was brought to the Bar.
MAſter Jaquel was called into the Court, and the Clerk tenderd him his oath, And M. Jaquel ſpake to the Court to this purpoſe,
That there were many oaths abroad, and he could not tell what to ſay to them, and he deſired to be excuſed. The L. Preſ. told him that he could not be excuſed. M. Jaquel ſaid, he was a Priſoner accuſed of the ſame offences that M. Love was accuſed of, and that he conceived he was not a competent witneſſe againſt him: the Court again preſt him to take his oath. Mr. Jaquel ſaid, that he durſt not in conſcience ſwear againſt Mr. Love, and therefore deſired it might not be preſt upon him. The Court ſtill preſiſted in it, that he muſt take his oath, and witneſſe what he knew; he anſwered, hee would ſpeak the truth of what he knew, as well as if he was under an oath: The Court told him, that that could not be, for if he did not ſwear, what he ſhould ſay, could not be received as any thing in matter of evidence. M. Jaquel ſtill perſiſted in his refuſall; when the Court ſaw he could not be otherwiſe prevailed with, they fined him five hundred pounds for refuſing to ſwear; and Mr. Jaquel after he was withdrawn out of the Court, was called in again, and preſt to take his oath, and was told that the Court had fined him five hundred pounds for refuſing to ſwear, and again asked him whether he would ſwear. M. Jaquel then, when the oath was read to him, did not ſwear in that manner as the other witneſſes did, but only put his hand to his buttons, and when Mr. Love asked him whether he was under an oath, he anſwered that he was as good as under an oath: but the Court not being ſatisfied with that anſwer, preſt him further, and then hee did ſay, he was ſworn, and was under an oath.
L. Preſ.
Declare now what you know of this buſineſſe.
Mr. Jaquel.
My Lord, for the paper I was examined about, as for knowing Titus, I never ſaw him in my life but one quarter of an hour in a private houſe, and I knew nothing of his buſineſſe any where. For the other, Alford coming over with letters, I was at Mr. Loves houſe, and when I was there, there was ſeverall men there.
Att. Gen.
In what part of Mr. Loves houſe.
Jaquel.
I conceive in his chamber, for I went up to ſeverall that were there, whoſe names I can poſitively ſay, for two or three of them, though I cannot remember the other abſolutely, though I conceive moſt I have named in my examination were there; C. Potter was there, and Doctor Drake, and M. Alford, and M. Love was there ſomtimes, though divers times he went out, ſome coming to ſpeak with him.
Att. Gen.
Was there not a copy of a letter ſaid to be ſent from the King, read there?
Mr. Jaquel.
I remember no ſuch thing.
Att. Gen.
Was there not a narrative.
Jaquel.
Yes, from Titus, wherein he declared the Kings inclinations to make peace with the Scots; but that his wicked counſell about him did hinder it.
Att. Gen.
Was not this of what Titus had related from Jerſey, the narrative of what had paſt between him and the King there?
Jaquel.
I think it was.
Att. Gen.
Was not M. Alford ſent to receive an account from him to Calice?
Jaquel.
William Drake did tell me ſo afterwards.
Att. Gen.
Did M. Alford deliver no account there?
Jaquel.
I think it was M. Alford read the narrative.
At. Gen.
Did he make no relation by word of mouth?
Jaquel.
Truly, I cannot remember.
At. Gen.
You cannot remember it was read?
Jaquel.
Yes, I am ſure it was read, and at Mr. Loves houſe.
At. Gen.
And he was preſent ſometimes.
Jaquel.
Yes, ſometimes.
Att Gen.
What mony was there agreed upon to be provided for Titus?
Jaquel.
I know of none. It was moved by Captain Potter that there might be forty pounds, but I know of none, nor was it agreed by M▪ Love, M. Drake or my ſelf, that we ſhould lay down any at all.
Att. Gen.
Did you not meet with William Drake, and deſire to go along with him to ſee Titus?
Iaquel.
I did ſo, but I think Drake deſired it. I met him in Newgate market, and, ſaith he, I am going to ſee Titus, goe along with me; I ſaid, I never ſaw him, nor did I know him: ſayes he, You ſhall not ſtay at all: whereupon we went and found him in a Cheeſe-mongers houſe in New-gate market.
At. Gen.
What diſcourſe had you?
Jaquel.
He ſaid, he was newly come out of Holland, and he had been with the King, and he was a man of excellent parts for his years, and that he was inclinable to what was good, but that he had ſuch deſperate evill Counſell about him; and that hee did much pity him, and that his Clergie eſpecially was wicked; and he propounded nothing to us, nor did I ever ſee his face afterwards, and this is about two years and a halfe ago; and for any other meetings at the Swan Taverne, or for any Agents, I never met him, or ſaw him.
Att. Gen.
Doe you not remember at any meeting, that there was money propounded for Captaine Titus, or for Alfords being ſent over to Calice? Speak what you know of that, and by whom it was told you?
Iaquel.
Major Alford himſelfe told me he was to meet his ſon, and he went over upon that ſcore; but after he was gone, William Drake told me he was gone to ſee or meet Captaine Titus, I am not certaine of the words; and when he did come againe, which was the next time I heard of him, then William Drake comes to me, and deſired mee to goe along with him, for I think he went up and down to every man.
Att. Gen.
You thinke then that William Drake was the prime man.
Iaquel.
Yes, hee was the Actor and the Agent that moved all.
Att. Gen.
When Alford returned, he deſired you to go with him.
Iaquel.
To Mr. Loves houſe.
Att. Gen.
VVhat was done at Mr Loves houſe?
Iaquel.
There were ſome papers read, which Alford, as I take it, read, or William Drake, I am not certaine which; but read it was, of a relation, that Titus came out of Ierſy, and had ſeen the King there, and the Scots Commiſſioners, and that the King had a great inclination to agree with the Scots Commiſſioners, and that he was a man of excellent inclinations and parts, and had a great deſire to agree, but his Counſell, and wicked crew about him would not let him; and he ſaid, as I remember, that the King was a kind of a Priſoner with them there, and ſaid, his Counſell did hinder him, or elſe, if he were from them, hee would agree with the Scots Commiſſioners.
At. Gen.
You ſay, this paper was read; this Narrative was read, and in M…. Loves houſe; was not Mr. Love preſent?
Iaquel.
I am not able to ſay hee was, when I came in, I remember he was not in the roome, and he was there two or three times while I was there, but he was ſeverall times called out.
Att. Gen.
Doe not you know there was an agreement of a letter written back to Titus?
Iaquel.
I can remember no ſuch thing, but I think William Drake told me ſo, as I remember, but that was two years ago, I do verily believe by what I conceived, was of his writing.
L. Preſ.
I could wiſh that mens conſciences could not bee ſcrupled to believe ſo much of a Miniſter, more then of a Magiſtrate; I hold it pernicious doctrine for any man to think he is bound more to obey the Miniſter, then the Magiſtrate: I ask you then before the Magiſtrate here, who was preſent at that meeting?
Iaquel.
William Drake. I am ſure, and Major Alford was there, and Captain Potter, and ſeverall others, as I remember, Maſter Ienkyns.
Att. Gen.
This was in Mr. Loves houſe, was it not in his ſtudy?
Iaquel.
I cannot tell that, I ſay, as I conceive, that Maſter Ienkyns, and Maſter Caſe were there, but poſitively I cannot ſay it, and Mr. Iackſon, and Mr. Nalton, I think.
Att. Gen.
VVhat ſay you of Mr. Watſon?
Iaquel.
I think he was there.
Att. Gen.
What ſay you of Mr. Herring?
Jaquel.
I think he was.
Att. Gen.
VVhat ſay you of Mr. Cauton.
Iaquel.
In truth, I cannot tell.
Att. Gen.
VVhat ſay you of Mr. Robinſon?
Iaquel.
I think he was.
Att. Gen.
What ſay you of Mr. Drake?
Iaquel.
Yes.
Att. Gen.
VVas Colonell Vaughan there?
Iaquel.
Yes, I conceive he was there.
Att. Gen.
Was Maſter Iackſon there?
Iaquel.
Yes.
Att. Gen.
Was Capt. Far, and Capt. Potter there?
Iaquel.
I believe ſo.
Att. Gen.
Was Mr. Gibbons there?
Iaquel.
I cannot tell.
Att. Gen.
What ſay you of Mr. Sterks?
Iaquel.
No Sir, I do not know it.
Att.
Did you not know him to be the Scotch Agent? Was he not taken among you to be an Agent from Scotland?
Iaquel.
Yes, he was a Scotch man.
At. Gen.
And for contribution of money, what money did you pay, and to whom?
Jaquel.
Two five pounds to Mr. Drake.
At. Gen.
For what uſe?
Jaquel.
For charitable uſes.
At. Gen.
Then he asked it of you ſo, or for that purpoſe; but afterwards, What did you learn it was employed about?
Jaquel.
Sir, he did not tell me how he did employ this money; but afterwards, I heard him ſay, that he had ſent Titus money.
At. Gen.
What did you contribute to Sterks his going into Scotland?
Jaquel.
Ten ſhillings.
At. Gen.
And who elſe did contribute, that was there? and how much was the ſum that was collected?
Jaquel.
I cannot tell.
At. Gen.
How much do you gueſs, or have heard?
Jaquel.
Four or five pounds, I think.
At. Gen.
Ask him who gave the Scotchmen money.
Jaquel.
Truly, I did give ſeveral Scotchmen money, both to poor Miniſters and others, that were baniſhed by the Act, becauſe I knew they were very poor, and knew not how to get away; and I did it out of charity towards them.
L. Preſ.
Becauſe the State had an ill opinion of them, therefore▪ you had a good opinion of them.
Jaquel.
There was one Miniſter that had twelve children that was baniſhed.
At. Gen.
Were you at any meetings at Mr▪ Loves after Dunbar fight?
Jaquel.
No not I.
At. Gen.
At what Faſt were you at, and who officiated at thoſe Faſts?
Jaquel.
I was at Major Adams, and Colonel Bartons.
At. Gen.
Who did exerciſe at thoſe Faſts? was Mr. Love, Mr. Jenkyns, Mr. Caſe, any of them?
Jaquel.
I believe they were, I conceive ſo, I profeſs I cannot remember, I believe Mr. Jenkyns was there.
At. Gen.
Was not Mr. Love one of them?
Jaquel.
Yes, he was.
At. Gen.
What was the occaſion of thoſe Faſts?
Jaquel.
I know no particular occaſion, but for the good of the two Nations.
At. Gen.
How do you know they were for the good of the two Nations? was it not for an agreement between the King, and the Scots?
Jaquel.
I confeſs, it was for the good of both Nations, as both Nations are the Church of God; and do both profeſs themſelves Proteſtants, and of one Religion; and I conceived, it was my duty to pray for the good of them both.
At. Gen.
But was there not ſome expreſſions for a bleſsing upon the Treaty at Breda?
Jaquel.
I cannot remember ſuch expreſsions; for in ſuch duties, I deſire to have my heart lifted up unto God: And, my Lord, it is a great while ago.
L. Preſ.
Will you ſay your heart is lifted up unto God, when your underſtanding is in your heels?
Jaquel.
My Lord, I do not remember one paſſage in prayer a week after.
At. Gen.
That is in ordinary meetings, but this was for both Nations; but by what did you know, that this was for the good of both Nations, and why was it pretended to be for the good of both? and, my Lord, why they ſhould not meet before, but juſt at that time, and at a private Faſt?
Jaquel.
I think that ſince the Nations of England and Scotland were at oddes, I have been at twenty Faſts.
At. Gen.
My Lord, ask him, whether he were not late with Potter, and did not meet with him about Letters from Bamfield, and whither they went to read them?
Jaquel.
This was about February or March laſt, he told me he received Letters, and deſired me to go along with him to Mr. Loves, and after Dr. Drake came in, and then theſe Letters were read; and I profeſs, I know not from whence they came, nor the man; and ſo did Mr. Love declare, That he never ſaw, nor knew, nor heard of Bamfield before.
At. Gen.
Did he not make mention of Parties in Scotland, that one party was for the King, another for the King and Kirk, a third neither for King, nor Kirk?
Jaquel.
Yes.
At. Gen.
But who were thoſe he named, that were men for the King?
Jaquel.
I think, Hamilton and his party.
At. Gen.
And who for the King and Kirk?
Jaquel.
Argile and Leſhley.
At. Gen.
And who neither for King nor Kirk?
Jaquel.
Straughan and Car.
At. Gen.
What, did he tell you of the young Kings eſcaping?
Jaquel.
Something there was in that, but he was fetched back again.
At. Gen.
What ſaid he of Argile?
Jaquel.
Nothing at all, as I remember.
At. Gen.
Was there not an expreſsion, That they were now agreed to receive in the whole Nation, unleſs it were thoſe that were notoriouſly▪ ſcandalous and excommunicated?
Jaquel.
I believe there was.
At. Gen.
Did it not mention five thouſand pounds for providing of ſhipping?
Jaquel.
Yes; in the Narrative or Letter; whether there related at that time, I know not.
At. Gen.
And what mention was there made, who were fit to command in England, if that party ſhould come from thence into England?
Jaquel.
I conceive there was three Noblemen.
At. Gen.
Name them.
Jaquel.
My Lord of Suffolk, my Lord of Warwick, and my Lord of Mancheſter, or either of them.
At. Gen.
That was prepounded by Bamfield, but I hope thoſe Lords were more noble, then to do any ſuch thing: Was there not another Letter that came with that of Bamfields, ſent by my Lord of Argile, and it was onelyonly, That there ſhould be an apbrobation of him: And was this Letter likewiſe read at the ſame time, and at the ſame place?
Jaquel.
Yes, my Lord.
At. Gen.
What was then propounded for money to be raiſed for Bamfield?
Jaquel.
Truly, Captain Potter did make mention for Forty pounds to be raiſed, Ten pounds for Colonel Bamfields man, and thirty pounds for Bamfield himſelf; but that buſineſs at the reading was wholly declined, and abſolutely refuſed by all, to act any thing in that relation, in which it was ſent over; whereupon, Captain Potter did move, that if nothing were done in that, whether it were not convenient to ſend the Meſſenger ſomething to bear his charges; ſays he, If you will pay the meſſenger Ten pounds, and ſend Bamfield Thirty pounds, I will give the meſſenger the Ten pounds; but there was no Agreement, not Concluſion, I know of, no Bill of Exchange that was ſent, but Captain Potter ſaid, he would lay down Ten pounds.
At. Gen.
But no body ſpake againſt Captain Potters laying down of Ten pounds; and it was propounded to you to lend Ten pounds, and you ſaid you would conſider of it; but did Potter lend it?
Jaquel.
I cannot tell that, my Lord, he ſaid he would do it.
At. Gen.
My Lord, let now Maſter Jaquel tell you what was the cauſe, why they did refuſe to do any thing in the Letter about Five thouſand pounds; what was the cauſe upon the debate between you at Mr. Loves houſe? why you did refuſe to do any thing about the Five thouſand pounds?
Jaquel.
The debate was ſoon over; for we abſolutely refuſed it, we would not meddle in it, not liking the buſineſs; it was a trouble, I am confident, to them that heard it read.
At. Gen.
You do not remember, that ever any body did acquaint the Magiſtrate with the deſign in working from Scotland?
Jaquel.
No, not I.
At. Gen.
Did not ſome ſay, That Bamfield was a malignant?
Jaquel.
I cannot tell, but I never heard of him before.
At. Gen.
Were you not told he was a Cavalier, and of the Kings ſide, and that that was the true reaſon, why they would not truſt him?
Jaquel.
I do not remember any ſuch thing.
At. Gen.
Did Mr. Love agree for Ten pounds for Bamfields man, and Thirty pounds for Bamfield?
Jaquel.
No, I cannot ſay ſo.
At. Gen.
Did not Major Alford tell you upon his return from Calice, that he was ſent thither to take an account thence?
Jaquel.
He did not, but William Drake did tell me, that he was gone to Calice to ſpeak with Captain Titus.
At. Gen.
And to take an account of the tranſaction at Jerſey?
Jaquel.
Truly Sir, I cannot ſay that, but William Drake told me, he was gone thither to ſpeak with Titus; and this is above two years ago, that William Drake told me ſo.
At. Gen.
To what end?
Jaquel.
To tell and hear news.
At. Gen.
What did he do more?
Jaquel.
I profeſs in the preſence of God, I cannot tell Sir, I beſeech you; for in the Paper I told you before, there were ſome circumſtances, and ſomething that I cannot ſay; but it was to this purpoſe, To ſpeak with Titus, to hear the news from Jerſey; but I cannot ſay certainly that word.
At. Gen.
We do not preſs you to the word, but to the effect of it; my Lord, I think Mr. Jaquel hath given an account already, that this relation was at Mr. Loves houſe. Mr. Jaquel, let me bring one thing to your remembrance, if it be true, At your meeting at Mr. Loves houſe, upon this buſineſs of Bamfields Narrative, you ſay, Thirty pounds was moved to be ſent to Bamfield, and Ten pounds to his man.
Jaquel.
Yes▪ by Captain Potter.
At. Gen.
And when it was then ſaid, it was thought fit by Mr. Love, Mr. Drake, and Captain Potter, that it ſhould be ſo done, whether did you not all agree that it ſhould be ſo done?
Jaquel.
No, there was no agreement, but it was thought convenient, or to that purpoſe.
Att. Gen.
It was thought convenient by all the company preſent?
Iaquel.
Truely Sir, there was not much regard taken in that buſineſſe, nor was there much done; for we did not ſtay long, but there were ſuch words.
Att. Gen.
But by all preſent?
Jaquel.
Yes, there were ſuch words.
Att. Gen.
Whether were not ſome friends at dinner at Dowgate, and was not Maſon there?
Iaquel.
My Lord, There was a Gentleman there, I cannot ſay, who he was, nor did I ſee him before or ſince.
Att. Gen.
Who did they tell you it was? did they not tell you, Maſon?
Jaquel.
I profeſſe, I cannot remember that, nor can I tell, but I conceive it was ſo.
Att. Gen.
In your Examination, you ſay it was Maſon.
Iaquel.
I ſaid, I conceived ſo.
Att. Gen.
Why did you believe ſo?
Iaquel.
I cannot tell, but as I remember, William Drake told me, It was ſo.
Att. Gen.
Whether when Bamfields letter came, and the letters from my Lord of Argile, Lowden, and others came, Was there not a letter from Baily?
Iaquel.
I do not remember, my Lord.
Att. Gen.
Nor from the Generall Aſſembly?
Iaquel.
I do not remember any ſuch thing.
Att. Gen.
Bethink your ſelf, you are upon your oath, whether he that brought letters from Bamfield, did not bring letters from Baily, and from the Generall Aſſembly.
Jaquel.
I cannnot remember there was any ſuch thing ſpoken of there.
Att. Gen.
Was there no expreſſion of letters of thanks for the good affection of the Presbyterian party here, and encouragement to perſevere?
Jaquel.
I do not remember any ſuch thing.
Att. Gen.
Was there no promiſes, that when they by their indeavours ſhould get a free Parliament in England, that they would re-imburſe all that was laid out
Jaq.
I do remember no ſuch thing.
Mr. Love.
I would ask him ſome queſtions; and the firſt is, whether he hath ſpoken this as a meer relation, or whether he owns all this he hath ſpoken, as under an oath.
Att. Gen.
We are paſt that my Lord, he did ſay, he was under an oath.
Mr. Love.
If he ſay ſo, I am concluded.
Mr. Jaquel made no anſwer to this.
L. Preſ.
You have asked two queſtions in a few words: for the firſt, whether he ſpeak it under an oath; you know, that time was ſpent to declare it before he began: If you ask of his owne knowledge, you miſtook it; for he ſaith ſomething he hath by relation, and ſome that he knows: this hee hath taken notice of, what ſhould wee further examine over the ſame thing; for hee ſaith ſome of his own knowledge, ſome by relation from particular parties, and ſome from parties he cals not now to mind: and it was declared by the Court, that he was a witneſſe, and the Court accepted him.
Mr. Love.
I deſire your Lordſhip to ask him this queſtion, whether the ſuppoſed Narrative that hee ſpeaks of, that Alford ſaid he brought over, and read at my houſe, was read at my houſe; or onelyonly by Alford, and ſo brought over as news?
Jaquel.
In truth, my Lord I cannot tell that.
Mr. Love.
He ſpeaks of Sterks a Scotch man, I deſire your Lordſhip to know wether hee knows, or can affirme by the oath you ſay he hath taken, that he was a Scotch Agent.
No anſwer to that queſtion.
Mr. Love.
Sir, Ask him this queſtion, he mentions a faſt at Major Adams, or Col. Bartons, and that for the good of both nations; becauſe he thought they were the Church of God; whether there was any intimation in that meeting, that it was under this notion, for the good of both Nations; whether that meeting was for the Scotch Nation to invade the Engliſh Nation.
No anſwer to to that queſtion.
Mr. Love.
He ſaid, (if I have taken him rightly, and if not, I deſire your Notaries to inform me better) that Mr. Love did not agree to ſuch a ſumme as forty pounds, and afterwards hee ſaid, that all there ſaid, it was convenient. Now I would ask how theſe two can agree together.
L. Preſ.
You are right; for the thing of agreement he diſclaimed totally.
Mr. Love.
Then I did not agree to it.
L. Preſ.
No, nor any elſe.
M. Love.
But afterwards he ſayes, that they did conceive it was convenient; Now, I pray ask him, how he knew that I thought it was convenient?
Jaquel.
I cannot ſay any thing that Mr. Love did ſay it was convenient; but it was not diſſented from, nor ſpoken againſt by any, as I remember.
Mr. Jaquel withdraws.
Colonel Barton is called into the Court, and is ſworn.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, let Colonel Barton tell you what he knows of the meeting at the Swan at Dow-gate.
Col. Barton.
My Lord, I was there a little while after the death of the late King; I was going into Cannon-ſtreet, and met with William Drake, he deſired me to go with him to the Swan at Dow-gate, I told him I had a little buſineſſe in Cannon-ſtreet, and I would be there by and by: I ſtaid about halfe an hour about my buſineſſe, and went then to the Swan at Dow-gate, and there was, to my beſt remembrance (for poſitively I cannot ſay) William Drake, and one a ſtranger, Major Huntington, and Lieutenant Colonel Bains, and there was one Captain Titus, as was ſaid, and Major Alford, and I do not remember who elſe were there. My Lord, at that time truly I was under a defect in my hearing, and ſince that I have loſt an ear, through a huge heat, and cold taken. But, my Lord, I not coming but to the middle of their diſcourſe they had, and not perfectly hearing, could not well judge of their diſcourſe, but afterwards I asked William Drake, what the intent of the meeting was? he told mee, that their intentions were to make ſome addreſſes or applications (ſome ſuch word it was) unto the Prince, and to take him off from his malignant or evill Counſell about him, and to put him upon ſuch as would be honeſter and better Counſellers; and this is the ſubſtance of what I then underſtood from Will. Drake. My Lord, J think, two or three dayes afterwards, I know not which, there was a meeting againe at the White Hart in Baſing-lane, and at the corner of Bread-ſtreet; there were, I think, moſt of them that I have named at the firſt meeting; I am ſure William Drake was there, and Captain Titus, and Lieutenant Colonel Bains, and Major Huntington, I cannot tell whether Mr. Alford was there or no, but theſe I am ſure were there; I did not come to the beginning of that meeting neither, the Paper had been read before I came in, to my beſt remembrance; but I asked William Drake what was the meaning of that meeting? he told me, it was to the ſame effect that they ſpake of before; and they had thoughts to ſend ſome body over to the Prince, to perſwade him from that condition; a while after J met with Lieutenant Colonel Bains, and truly, J did ask him more fully of the circumſtances of that meeting: he told me ſomething that they intended to make uſe of my Lord Piercy and Jermin, and thoſe about the Prince, which hee diſliked. Truly, my Lord, it troubled me extremely to think that they ſhould make uſe of ſuch ill inſtruments to perſwade the King, and J ſaid, J thought it was not well: And the next time J ſaid to William Drake, you have not done well, for it is not a chriſtian way we take to make uſe of ſuch men as theſe to perſwade with the King; for do you think that my Lord Piercy and Jermin, and thoſe men will ever perſwade the King to leave themſelves, and their own Counſels? ſo he put me off, and from that time he was a little more ſhy of me. Afterwards he did ſecretly and cunningly get from me Ten pounds, and came under a pretence to ſupply a friend in neceſſity, and J ſaid to him, you have money of your own; ſaies he, J have not ſo much as J muſt needs ſupply him with, and he could not do it of himſelfe for fear it ſhould be miſſ'd. My Lord, J asked him what friend it was; nay, ſaith he, you can not know that, nor you cannot have it till he is in a condition. To tell you truly, he had been a good cuſtomer to me both for himſelf and friends, and J was loath to deny him it, ſuppoſing J ſhould have it again. J afterwards did not, to my beſt knowledg, meddle or make at any meeting, J was never at any of thoſe meetings after the buſineſſe at Baſing lane, becauſe J diſliked them; but afterwards J did ſuppoſe that this Ten pounds was for Captain Titus; for J did put it to him, and ſaid, J am afraid you did furniſh Titus with that Ten pounds: What then, ſaid he? Then J ſhall require it again of you: ſo he put me off, and run out of the Land. My Lord, for any other meetings, tranſactions or knowledge of any other thing from the time of the meeting in Baſing-lane, J know none. For the Priſoner at the bar, truly J do not remember, and J am confident J was never at his houſe in my life, nor changed one word with him.
At. Gen.
Did you meet with Titus in Fleet-ſtreet.
Bart.
J did, my Lord, and J asked him whether the King that was dead (for J knew he was much about the King, becauſe J had heard it) and J asked him (J ſay) whether the King was a man of thoſe parts he was reported to be. Titus told me, not only of his parts, but vertues: Truly J ſuſpected then, that Titus was not the man he ſeemed to be, and J feared he was a Cavileer in his heart; and truly that did occaſion me, with the diſlike of others, to leave their company.
At. Gen.
There were ſometimes private faſts at your houſe, wha… w…s the occaſion of them, and vvho ſpoke to you for them?
Col. Barton.
My Lord, I do not remember the party that ſapke to me, I am not certain whether it were Maſter Vickars, but cannot poſitively ſay it, or whether it were by Sir Matthew Brand, or by whom they deſired to meet, they met in a room at my houſe to humble themſelves before the Lord; and I cannot ſay any thing of the Faſt, becauſe I had cuſtomers, and I did think I was bound to ſerve my calling; and I was not there above half an hour, and it was up and down, off and on, there were divers Miniſters, who did exerciſe at that time.
Att. Gen.
Who did exerciſe at that time?
Col. Barton.
I was not there much of the time, but I think Mr. Jenkins, and to my beſt remembrance, Mr. Love was there; there was Mr. Tate the Parliament… man, to my beſt remembrance; I think Mr. Jaquel was there, and there was Sir Matthew Brand.
Att. Gen.
What other Miniſters were there?
Col. Barton.
I think Mr. Caſe, and to my beſt remembrance Mr. Robinſon; but I am not certain.
Att. Gen.
What was the occaſion of your Faſts, and at your houſe?
Col. Barton.
I knew no occaſion, becauſe I was not there, but have heard, a ſervant of my houſe, who was there, gives this relation. Mr. Jenkins began in this maner, O Lord, thou knoweſt we are not meet to put up complaints againſt any, but to humble our ſelves before thee, and to pray, that the ſins of the Land may be pardoned; but I do not remember there was any word, but for the pardoning the ſins of the Nation.
Att. Gen.
Was there no ſins named in particular?
Col. Barton.
My Lord, I do not remember.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, ask him whether any body hath been with him, to call for any money for any parties beyond Sea; for Maſſey or any others.
Col. Barton.
I ſhall give you a true Narrative of that, I underſtood, my Lord, that after the priſoners that were taken at Dunbar were come down the River, there were divers Citizens, both men and women, that came to ſee them, and made a relation of their miſery to be ſuch, as I have not heard; and there was one among the reſt, that ſaid there was a peice of meat reached down among the priſoners, and two or three catching at it, it fell down among the dung, and they took it up, and eat it; there were divers did move for a contribution to them, and it was a pritty while before I did contribute any thing; there was Captain Far with me, and deſired me to give him ſome money, and he did not propoſe the uſe; but to my beſt remembrance, it was either for charitable uſes, or for ſome in miſery. Now I was loth to ask him for what charitable uſe, becauſe I did not deſire to be known to give ſuch a ſum of money to the Scotch priſoners. I had a little money which I had devoted to charitable uſes in my own purpoſe: VVhen the Pa…liament granted my Petition for reimburſing the money I lent, I did promiſe Fifty pounds to charitable uſes; and this, I confeſs, I did intend for the Scotch priſoners, but was loth to ask him, becauſe I would not be thought charitable to your Enemies; but did it not under that relation.
Att. Gen.
Mr. Jaquel, you know William Drake and Mr. Love very well, do you not know that Mr. Drake and Mr. Love, were very familiarly acquainted?
Jaquel.
I muſt needs ſay, Mr. Drake would be acquainted with all the Miniſters in London; and I cannot ſay, he was more acquainted with Mr. Love, then with any other Miniſter.
Captain Far is called into the Court, and is ſworn.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, let him acquaint you with what paſſed at the White Hart in Breadſtreet.
Cap. Far,
I deſire the benefit of my Papers.
Att. Gen.
At whoſe requeſt did you come to the white Hart in Breadſtreet, and when was it?
Far.
By William Drake.
At. Gen.
Was that the firſt time you were acquainted with any thing of this nature, for carrying on and proſecuting of an order, to the furtherance of an Agreement between the Scots, and the King? VVhat do you know of that, at what time was the meeting.
Cap. Far.
It was about two years ſince.
At. Gen.
VVhat was the diſcourſe at that meeting?
Cap. Far.
It was the drawing up of ſome heads of a Letter, which might be ſent to Scotland.
At. Gen.
What was the effect of it?
Cap. Far.
It was to this effect, to the beſt of my memory; for it is ſo long ſince.
Here Captain Far was at a ſtand, whether through infirmity of ſpeech (for he ſeemed to be ſlow of ſpeech) or otherwiſe, I cannot ſay; and he or the Attorney General for him, made great uſe of the Papers of his Examination.
At. Gen.
To deſire them, the better to bring them to an agreement, that there might be moderate Propoſitions.
Cap. Far.
It was to moderate their deſires in the agreement, between the King and the Scots.
At. Gen.
What to do?
Cap. Far.
That they might abate of their demands.
At. Gen.
Of their former demands, that they might be the more like to agree; was it not ſo?
Cap. Far.
Yes, my Lord.
Att. Gen.
Was it not propounded likewiſe, that ſome ſhould be ſent to the King, to perſwade him to give ſatisfaction to the Scots?
Far.
It was propounded by Titus, but not approved of.
Att. Gen.
But did you not agree to ſend to the Scots that you did agree to, and were there not heads which Titus, or Drake, did undertake to write, and afterwards were drawn up?
Far.
I ſaw no letters.
Att. Gen.
But did not Drake tell you he had ſent them to Maſter Baily in Scotland? Captain Far being at a ſtand, the Atturny Generall asketh him again. Did not William Drake tell you, a letter was ſent accordingly into Scotland?
Far.
Yes he did tell me, he had ſent letters.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, let him give you Lordſhip an account before the Treaty at Jerſey, where Drake met with him, and what he propounded to him, whether to ſend to Jerſey, and what perſons, and upon what meſſage?
Far.
Mr. Drake did ſay, that Captain Titus did ſay, It was requiſite for one to be at the Treaty at Jerſey, and I had it from Drake, that Titus did undertake to go himſelfe thither.
Att. Gen.
What was his imployment to be there, and what money was to be raiſed for him?—Did he tell you he wanted money?
Far.
After Mr. Drake deſired, I would help him to ten pounds, and Titus was in want of money to relieve his neceſſities; and upon this requeſt I did leave ten pounds in Mr. Drakes Ware-houſe.
VVas Drake preſent?
Far.
I think he was, I was promiſed it again, but never received it.
At. Gen.
My Lord, Let him inform after this negotiation of Titus was ended at Ierſy, whether there was not a letter written by Titus, and whether this was not read in the preſence of Mr. Love, and ſome others, and whether at Mr. Loves or no?
L. Preſ.
Upon the ending of the Treaty at Ierſey, and Bredah, were you not preſent at Mr. Loves houſe, when it was ſignified from Titus, that it was not convenient for him to come into England, becauſe he thought he was diſcovered to the Councell of State, and deſired ſome body to be ſent to Calice to take an account there of his negotiation?
Far.
Yes, my Lord, I was there.
Att. Gen.
Where, at Mr. Loves houſe?
Far.
Yes.
Att. Gen.
In what part of his houſe, whether in his chamber, or ſtudy?
Far.
In his ſtudy, as I remember.
Att. Gen.
Was the letter read there, and who read it?
Far.
William Drake read it.
At. Gē.
What was the ſubſtance of the letter, as you remember?
Far.
It was forſending one over to Calice.
At. Gen.
Was Mr. Love preſent when this letter was read?
Far.
Yes ſure, he was preſent.
Att. Gen.
Was it agreed that one ſhould be ſent to Calice, to take an account of it.
Far.
It was deſired, and I was propounded to go.
Att. Gen.
Who named you to go?
Far.
Mr. Drake.
Att. Gen.
What was the occaſion that Major Alford did go?
Far.
It was his Sons being there, that was gon from him.
Att. Gen.
But then it was agreed that Alford ſhould go? When Alford did return from Calice again, and there was an account given of his imployment, Where was this account given? and where were thoſe papers read that did give the account?
Far.
It was given at Mr. Loves; but I cannot ſay, he was preſent at that, for he was abſent ſometimes; I cannot be poſitive to ſay he was preſent: I do conceive he was preſent, but cannot poſitively ſay it.
Att. Gen.
What was the ſubſtance of the account given by Alford, or Drake, or who read it?
Far.
It was a Narrative that he had been at Calice, and what entertainment he had.
At. Gen.
VVas there a copie of a letter brought thither written from the King to the Presbyterian party?
Far.
I cannot ſay, he brought it.
At. Gen.
What was the ſubſtance of the letter?
Far.
To ſend Commiſſioners to the Treaty at Bredah.
Att. Gen.
What elſe was in the letter? Did not the King of Scots declare in the letter, that he would give ſatisfaction to the Scots, and in order thereunto he deſired Commiſſioners?
Far.
It is ſo long ſince, that I cannot remember it.
At. Gen.
I ask you, whether it were not to this effect, to declare that he was willing to give ſatisfaction to the Scots, and to that end deſired the Presbyterian party to ſend commiſſioners to Bredah?
Mr. Love.
This is groſſe darkneſſe, for you to dictate words to him, and then to ſay, VVas it not thus, or to this effect? and ſo to put into the mouthes of the witneſſes what you would have them ſay.
At. Gen.
VVhen you go in darkneſſe, it is groſſe treaſon.
Mr. Love.
Eight witneſſes have not proved, that I either w…it letter, or received letter, or lent money.
Att. Gen.
VVhat was the effect of the letter?
Far.
It is ſo long ſince, that I cannot ſpeak particularly, but it was to ſend commiſſioners.
At. Gen.
The copie of the letter that came from the King by Major Alford?
Far.
I do not ſay ſo, Sir.
L. Preſ.
Such a letter as they conceived to be brought from him, as they read.
At. Gen.
What was that?
Far.
That he had been with Titus, and did bring the Narrative from him, or to that effect.
Att. Gen.
Was it not to be communicated?
Far.
Yes, it was ſo.
L. Preſ.
What was the Narrative read from Titus? who were preſent at this meeting?
Far.
There were ſeverall there, but I cannot poſitively remember any.
Att. Gen.
Was Mr. Love there?
Far.
I cannot ſay he was.
L. Preſ.
Was Doctor Drake there?
Far.
I cannot ſay poſitively, that he hath been at any meetings.
L. Preſ.
When you were of this meeting, and Major Alford returned this at Mr. Loves houſe, was Doctor Drake there?
Far.
I cannot ſay it.
L. Preſ.
Was Mr. Jenkyns there?
Far.
I cannot ſay it.
L. Preſ.
How many were there?
Far.
About ten, or twelve.
Att. Gen.
Ask him, whether this meeting, when this letter came from the King, adviſing to ſend Commiſſioners to treat with the King at Bredah? Whether was there not a Commiſſion named, and perſons named to treat?
Far.
William Drake read papers, but it was not agreed upon by the Company, becauſe private perſons could not give commiſſions.
L. Preſ.
Was it not debated at that meeting for a Commiſſion to be ſent accordingly?
Far.
Wil. Drake read papers there, that was in the nature of a Commiſſion, but it was not agreed upon by the Company, becauſe private perſons could not do ſuch a thing.
L. Preſ.
Was it not in order to the Treaty?
Far.
It was to adviſe with them about the Treaty.
Att. Gen.
Was it not read in the preſence of the Company?
Far.
The Commiſſions and inſtructions were read in the preſence of the Company, but they were not agreed upon.
Att. Gen.
Was it not in the name of the Presbyterian party in England?
Far.
As I do remember, the Commiſſion was in the name of the Presbyterian party, for I did but onelyonly hear it read.
Mr. Love.
Let him ſpeak vivâ voce.
Far.
To the beſt of my remembrance, it was for the Presbyterian party, but poſitively, I cannot ſay ſo; My Lord, 'tis two years ſince, and as near as I can remember, it was ſo.
L. Preſ.
The Commiſſion you ſay, was not agreed to, but the letter and inſtructions were?
Far.
William Drake did undertake to draw them up.
L. Preſ.
Were they drawn up, and ſent? I am not able to ſay they were.
L. Preſ.
Who were to be the Commiſſioners?
Far.
My Lord Willoughby of Parham, Alderman Bunce, Major Generall Maſſey, Colonel Graves, Captain Titus.
Att. Gen.
VVhat were they to do?
Far.
To adviſe, but not to treat in the behalf of the Presbyterian party.
L. Preſ.
Not in the behalf of the Prebyterian party?
Far.
No.
Att. Gen.
VVas there not an agreement of letters to be ſent to the Queen, and no propoſals that way?
Far.
No, my Lord.
L. Preſ.
What was the ſubſtance of that letter read?
Far.
It was, as I remember, to have the Queen perſwade the King to give ſatisfaction to the Scots in their juſt demands.
Att. Gen.
Was it not moved then to be debated what power they had to ſend a Commiſsion, and by what authority they ſhould do it, and by whom was it ſpoken?
Far.
It was demanded, what authority had private men to ſend Commiſsioners?
Att. Gen.
Did not you go afterwards with ſome over into Southwark?
Far▪
Yes.
Att. Gen.
Where did you go?
Far.
I went with Major Alford, and with Alderman Bunce his ſonne, and I went to Graveſend.
At. Gen.
What other company was there?
Far.
No body elſe, nor had I gone, but at the requeſt of Maſter Alford.
Att. Gen.
Did you know that Maſon went?
Far.
There was no ſuch man went along with us.
Att. Gen.
Did no body tell you that Maſon went with the inſtructions agreed upon?
Far.
There was a Gentleman we met with at Graveſend, that I conceive to be that Maſon.
Att. Gen.
Did he carry the inſtructions?
Far.
I cannot tell.
L. Preſ.
Did no body tell you ſo?
Far.
Not as I remember, I did not ſee any delivered to him.
L. Preſ.
Do you believe he carried them out of theſe circumſtances you heard?
Far.
Yes, I believe he did, I am upon my oath, and to ſay poſitively, I cannot.
Att Gen.
Were there not letters left at your houſe, and for whom, and what did you with them?
Far.
There was at my brothers houſe letters left, but they were returned.
Att. Gen.
But for whom were thoſe Letters?
Far.
They were directed to William Drake by Titus.
Att. Gen.
Were you at Colonel Bartons houſe at the Faſt?
Far.
I was.
Att. Gen.
Who officiated there, was Mr. Love one of them?
Far.
I cannot ſay poſitively, I believe Mr. Love did.
L. Preſ.
Do you believe, Mr. Love was one of them?
Far.
I conceive he was one of them, and Mr. Robinſon.
At. Gen.
Did he not pray for a bleſſing upon the Treaty, between the King and the Scots?
Far.
That was done, but I cannot ſay it was by Mr. Love; but theſe words were ſaid there.
At. Gen.
Were you at a meeting at Mr. Loves, after the fight at Dunbar, a remarkable time to this Nation?
Far.
I was there, but came in late.
Att. Gen.
Were you there, when a Letter was read from Massey?
Far.
I did not hear it read.
L. Preſ.
What do you know of it?
Far.
There was ſuch a Letter came, to aſſiſt the King with Money and Arms; but it was not agreed upon.
L. Preſ.
Do you ſware ſuch a Letter came?
Far.
I cannot ſwear poſitively.
L. Preſ.
Did the Gentleman tell you ſo?
Far.
He did tell me ſo.
L. Preſ.
The letter did write likewiſe for Arms and Ammunition, did it not?
Far.
Yes, and for money.
L. Preſ.
Did not Mr. Love tell you, they could not do it.
Far.
I did underſtand it was Mr. Love.
Att. Gen.
Did not Mr. Love tell you, they agreed to raiſe a ſum of money for Maſſey, and Titus, and Graves, and ſome of them?
Far.
Yes, he did.
At. Gen.
What was the ſum of money, and for whom was it agreed upon; did Mr. Love tell you ſo?
Far.
I ſay Mr. Love did tell me, it was agreed upon for the ſending of ſome money, whether 250 or 300 l. I cannot ſay poſitively; and it was to relieve Maſſey and Titus in their neceſſities.
Att. Gen.
Did not Mr. Love move you to contribute to this? and what did you contribute?
Far.
Mr. Love asked me, and I did promiſe five pounds, and brought five pounds, and laid it down upon his Table.
At. Gen.
Who was in the Room then?
Far.
There were ſeveral.
L. Preſ.
Do you know none of them?
At. Gen.
Mr. Love ſaith, he hath neither writ, received, nor ſent; but he doth not ſay, he did not mend letters.
Far.
I brought five pounds in a Paper, and laid it upon his Table.
L. Preſ.
And was he in the Room?
Far.
Yes, my Lord, but I cannot ſay, any elſe was.
Att. Gen.
I could tell you who there were more; Mr. Caſe was there too: my Lord, ask him if it were not agreed between them, that it ſhould be ſo brought.
Far.
As I did underſtand it was ſo; it was ſo for my particular, but I cannot ſay it of others.
Att. Gen.
Did not Mr. Love ſpeak to you to that purpoſe, to bring it in that way?
Far.
I cannot ſay he bid me lay it down.
L. Preſ.
What was the maner of Mr. Loves requiring of you, or notifying of it to you, and the maner of your purſuit of that?
Here Captain Far was at a ſtand, and made no anſwer.
Att. Gen.
I will make it very ſhort, Whether this were not done, that there might be no diſcovery of it?
Far.
It was done to that effect, that there ſhould be no diſcovery of it, I did it under that …otion.
L. Preſ.
And do you not think Mr. Love conceived it under that notion?
Far.
I cannot ſay he did.
Att. Gen.
Were you not ſpoken to by Cap. Maſſey, to ſpeak to Colonel Barton to lend money?
Far.
I did ſpeak to him.
L. Preſ.
What was that?
Far.
Ten pounds, as I conceived, for I received it from him in a Paper.
Att. Gen.
To whom did you deliver it?
Far.
To Cap. Maſſey, Maſſeys Brother, my Lord.
L. Preſ.
You received it from Col. Barton; Cap. Maſſey bid you ſpeak to Col. Barton for a ſum of money, and he gave it to you, and you gave it to Cap. Maſſey.
Att. Gen.
Was the money, as you conceived, returned to Maſſey and Titus?
Far.
I cannot ſay it was.
L. Preſ.
Do you believe it was deſired to be raiſed to that purpoſe; and do you think it was done according to that purpoſe?
Far.
I do not know.
Att. Gen.
Whether do you conceive, that this money you thus brought to Cap. Maſſey, was not for Maſſey and Titus?
Far.
I do conceive it was.
At. Gen.
And was not Mr. Love commonly at your meetings; and whether, after Drake went away, the meetings were not at his houſe?
Far.
I met with Mr. Love often at h…s own houſe.
Att. Gen.
This money was taken up under the notion of a charitable uſe.
Far.
I do conceive it was given them under that notion.
Mr. Love.
Sir, He gave you a large account of the negotiation with Titus, Pray ask him if I were privy to it.
Far.
I cannot ſay ſo.
L. Preſ.
Do you believe it?
Mr. Love.
You ſay the copy of the Kings letter (you ſuppoſe) that was brought over by Alford, was read at my houſe; whether did I hear the letter read in my houſe?
Far.
I cannot ſay you did.
L. Preſ.
Was not Mr. Love, when the letter was communicated, ſometimes in the room, going, and coming?
Far.
I cannot ſay when it was read, but I ſay he was there during ſome part of the communication, but I cannot ſay he was there at the reading of the letter.
At. Gen.
Theſe are good queſtions, my Lord.
Mr. Love
The Court will judge of that.
L. Preſ
But do you not conceive that he underſtood the contents of it?
Far.
I do conceive ſo:
Mr. Love▪
But he doth not ſay, it was ſo. He ſaid there was a Narrative read from Titus, I deſire your Lordſhip to ask him whether I was preſent whiles the Narrative was read yea, or no.
Far.
I cannot ſay any thing to that, I cannot ſwear he was there.
Mr. Love.
Ask him whether I did not go often out of the room.
Far.
I did obſerve that when Mr. Love hath been there, he hath been often called away, and hath been abſent, and therefore I cannot ſay ſuch a thing was done when Mr. Love was there.
Att. Gen.
He hath before prov'd it upon oath, that he was there ſometimes.
Mr. Love.
But look before, and he ſaid, he could not ſay I was preſent when it was read.
Mr. Love.
This Narrative, whether was it a copy written by Alford, as news brought over, or the copy written by Titus himſelfe?
Far.
Alford ſaid it was a Narrative from Titus.
Mr. Love.
Pray ask him whether I did ſend Alford over yea or no, or agreed to the ſending of him over.
Far.
I think he did not, but he was ſent by William Drake.
Mr. Love.
My Lord, whether was he not privy to it? he told you Titus his letter was writ before Alford went.
Far.
But it was not agreed upon.
Att. Gen.
Titus his letter that he writ, that ſome might come to him, to receive an account of him, was read at Maſter Loves houſe.
Mr. Love.
I move this queſtion, becauſe Alford, who was the man ſent, confeſſed that William Drake ſent him. He pretended there was a Commiſſion read in my houſe, I deſire to know when or at what time, whether before the 29. of March, 1650.
Far.
I am not able to ſpeak to the time, it is about two years ſince, or ſomething under.
Mr. Love.
I deſire Sir, to ask him this queſtion, whether the rude draught written by William Drake, or the originall copy was ſent away.
Far.
There was only a rude draught that Drake read, and then afterwards Drake was to draw it up.
Mr. Love.
Ask him whether I gave my conſent to the ſending away of this Commiſſion?
Far.
I cannot ſay Mr. Love was there when it was ſent away.
Att. Gen.
Did Mr. Love make any proteſtation againſt it?
Far.
It was agreed by all, that that the Commiſſion could not be ſent.
Mr. Love.
Ask him, whether I did not declare in the Company, when there was ſuch ſpeech of commiſſionating, that it was an high act of preſumption for private perſons to commiſſionate any, and a notorious falſhood, to ſay it was an act of the Presbyterians, and whether did not I declare my ſelf againſt ſending the Commiſſion?
Far.
I did ſay, it was agreed upon by all, that we could not ſend the Commiſsion.
Mr. Love.
I can prove, if I may have the witneſſes indemnified, that I declared againſt any Commiſsion.
L. Preſ.
Mr. Love hath declared then he knew of the Commiſsion.
Mr. Love.
I acknowledge the diſ-avowing of any Commiſsion, J gave my reaſons for it.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, J hope you will remember what the Priſoner ſayes.
Mr. Love.
J do not own any thing about concurring with any Commiſsion, but only diſ-avowing of it. After Dunbar fight, he ſaith, he came late, and he cannot tell whether the letter was read at my houſe, onelyonly he ſayes, J told him ſo; and whether was that the letter, or a copy of it.
Far.
J cannot ſay that.
Mr. Love.
The moſt that J have done, is but to receive news, and J hope J ſhall not die for that: Was this letter of Maſſey written to me?
Far.
J have ſaid already, J cannot ſay ſo.
Mr. Love.
I would be glad to be freed in Court.
L. Preſ.
You are a very free man indeed.
Mr. Love.
He ſpeaks of a ſum of two hundred and fifty pounds, or three hundred pounds, ſent to Maſſey, and Titus, pray ask him, whether I did agree that it ſhould be ſent?
L. Preſ.
Did he diſ-agree?
Far.
I ſaid, it was agreed to, but by whom, I cannot ſay.
Att. Gen.
Did Mr. Love at that time diſ-agree?
Far.
I cannot ſay, he did.
Mr. Love.
Did I move Captain Far, or ſay, Captain Far, will you contribute five pounds to Maſſey, or Titus, or any money?
Far.
You asked me the queſtion, what I would do?
Mr. Love.
But for Maſſey, and Titus?
Far.
I did conceive, it was for Maſſey, and Titus.
Mr. Love.
He ſayes, he laid it in my houſe, and he ſo far juſtifies me, that he cannot ſay I received it, and God is my witneſſe, I never did ſee it in my life: If another man agrees to receive money in my houſe, I hope the Court will not judge me for it.
L. Preſ.
It is an eaſie matter for you to take it, and convert it to another uſe.
Far.
I do conceive that Captain Maſſey had the money.
Mr. Love.
Now you clear me; another man brings the money, and I doe not order him to bring it, and another receives it, and not I.
Captain Far withdrawes.
Att. Gen.
Now my Lord, we ſhall conclude in a very ſhort word, with a Miniſter to a Miniſter.
Maſter Jackſon the Miniſter is called into the Court.
Mr. Jakſon.
Sir, I dare not ſwear.
L. Preſ.
Dare you teſtifie the truth, when God calls you to it? for God will appear in no other viſion then in the power of Magiſtracy.
Mr. Jackſon.
I dare not ſpeak againſt this mans life.
L. Preſ.
Dare you ſpeak the truth before a Magiſtrate?
Mr. Jackſon.
That that I ſay is this, that I look upon this man, as a man very precious in God's ſight; and my Lord, I fear I ſhould have an hell in my conſcience unto my dying day, if I ſhould ſpeak any thing that ſhould be circumſtantially prejudiciall to his life; and in regard of theſe terrours of the Lord upon me, I dare not ſpeak.
Att. Gen.
I think all the Jeſuites in all the Colledges have not more deſperate evaſions or ſhifts from the purpoſe then theſe men have. My Lord, you now ſee what a deſperate combination here is, that men being before authority, and in the face of Magiſtracy, in ſuch a Court as this is, ſo eminent in the preſence of it, and ſo authorized as this is, that men ſhould dare to dally as they do, and that Miniſters ſhould ſay, they dare not ſpeak the truth, not when treaſon is hatched and contrived, they dare not ſpeak the truth; that this man ſhould be more precious, though a traitour, then the Common-wealth which ſhould be preſerved. I hope we ſhall root theſe opinions out, or ſome of the parties that hold them: that I will ſay.
L. Preſ.
Maſter Jackſon, you are one of the parties in theſe meetings, you have been at their meetings, and we require nothing of you but to ſpeak the truth. Saint Auſtine will tell you, that to conceal a truth, or tell a lie, you had better let the world fall about your ears: you are required nothing but to ſpeak the truth, and will you ſay this truth will be a torment to your ſoul? are you a Profeſſour of Jeſus Chriſt, a Miniſter of God? the great errand you are ſent hither about, is, to ſpeak the truth from him; therefore lay your hand upon your heart, and do as becomes you as a Chriſtian, and as a rationall man, and as one that will tell truth, for by the Truth the world ſtands: we are all no better then ſavage men, if we have not judgement to tell truth one to another.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, Suppoſe Mr. Love ſhould kill one of theſe men, (that doe hear the debate) in the preſence of Mr. Jackſon, and he ſhould be called to give evidence, and refuſe it; he may take away any mans life; perſonall reſpects ſhould be ſet aſide, when we come to judgement. You ſee, my Lord, the perſon of this man, how it is preferred by this man. That which is the truth, you are required to ſpeak, and nothing elſe.
L. Preſ.
Have you any oath or promiſe among your combiners, to be ſecret in this buſineſſe?
Mr. Jackſon.
Never in my life, my Lord.
L. Preſ.
Will you take your oath?
Mr. Jackſon.
I dare not, my Lord.
L. Preſ.
What is your reaſon?
Mr. Jackſon.
I have told you my Lord, and I will tell you it again, I am a man of a troubled ſpirit, and I dare not do any thing that ſhould cauſe a hell in my conſcience to my dying day.
L. Preſ.
Do you look to die?
Mr. Jackſon.
Yes, my Lord.
L. Preſ.
And do you expect to live again?
Mr. Jackſon.
I truſt in Jeſus Chriſt I ſhall live again.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, I deſire your Clerk may be commanded to give him his oath, and …e required to take it.
The Clerk tenders him the oath.
L. Preſ.
Will you take this oath, or not?
Mr. Jackſon.
No▪ my Lord.
L. Preſ.
Then I think you are the men that were ſpoken of before, Jeſuits and Prieſts: they ſay, you are none, but you are their brethren.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, theſe go beyond Jeſuits, the Jeſuits will ſwear with a reſervation, and theſe will not ſwear at all; this man muſt be proceeded accordingly with, for if this be allowed, I conceive there will be no justice in England. And in reſpect of the quality of his perſon, function, and gravity, by ſo much is it a more pernicious example, and it aggravates the thing every way.
L. Preſ.
Let it be known here, that it may be diſperſed abroad, and I thinke there are ſome of moſt Counties of England. And this air is gone forth, this very plot is ſecretly ſpread with ſome chief Miniſters throughout all England.
Att. Gen.
This right they have done to many of them, that I believe it will make a more ſevere inquiſition into theſe perſons, then otherwiſe there would be: it is not bloud that is look'd after, but confeſſion and contrition. I am glad that thoſe that are not Clergy men do come in; and the Clergy will not confeſſe at all.
The Court conſults a while.
L. Preſ.
Maſter Jackſon, For your refuſing to ſwear, the Court fineth you five hundred pounds, and impriſonment during the pleaſure of the Court.
The Keeper of the Fleet is called upon, and commanded to take him into cuſtody.
Mr. Love.
My Lord, I have ſome motions humbly to make to this Court. The firſt is, to intreat your Lordſhip, and the reſt of the members of this Court, that if I have let fall any expreſſions through inconſiderateneſſe, or for want of skill in the Law, that have been an offence either to your Lordſhip, or to any, I beſeech you, if I have ſpoken any derogating expreſſions, or made any unſeaſonable motions, that you would impute it to my ignorance.
L. Preſ.
None of them ſhall hurt you.
Mr. Love.
Then I intreat this favour, that I may have counſel aſsigned me, & Soliciters here in Court, and in my chamber at the Tower, and a copie of my charge, and convenient time, as the nature of the buſineſſe requires, my charge being long, and I have not read a word of it, nor the depoſitions: that I may have, I ſay, counſel aſſigned me, & convenient time to bring in my anſwer; & I am confident, through the good hand of God upon me, I ſhall clear my ſelfe of all the treaſons charged upon me, and of all their aggravations, through ſtraines of wit, and quillets of law, by inſtruments of State; I am confident, I ſhall clear my innocencie, that I ſhall not ſtand a traitour before you.
L. Preſ.
They being inſtruments of State, are inſtruments of God, appointed by the State. For your time, you have all this afternoon. Are you not ready?
Mr. Love.
I was yeſterday nine houres lock'd up in that cloſe room, and in this place, and I could not read one word laſt night, not out of trouble of mind, but through wearineſſe, being kept ſo many hours in the Court.
Att. Gen.
My Lord, he hath had a fortnights notice of his triall to prepare for it; My Lord, wee have been two dayes, and by the courſe of proceedings, if the Gentleman had had his triall by a Jury, both muſt have been diſpatched in one day. We are appointed to go on to hear his defence now, or elſe on Munday.
Mr. Love.
I deſire a convenient time to bring in my witneſſes, to make it appear how the witneſſes againſt me contradict themſelves; I have not yet read the depoſitions of one man, and I cannot read the depoſitions by Munday, and to morrow is a day that ſome time of it ſhould be ſpent in other imployments.
L. Preſ.
To do juſtice, you muſt run out of the Church, and though you were at your prayers, you muſt forſake praying and Sabbaths, to do juſtice; Sir, this is of a higher nature then all your preaching, and praying.
The Court conſults a while together.
L. Preſ.
The Court all agree to give you till Wedneſday eight a clock in the morning.
Mr. Love.
I deſire that I may have counſel here, and in my chamber.
L. Preſ.
You have ſhewed nothing theſe two dayes, that raiſes any doubt in matter of Law.
Mr. Love.
There are ſome things in my charge, that I doubt this Court cannot take cognizance of, ſomething in thoſe acts, and ſomething in reſpect of the time. It is matter of law, whether the act ſpeak of ſending, or receiving letters, or meſſages. And here are eight witneſſes come in, and never a man proves that I received letter, or ſent letter, or lent any money. And this I conceive is matter of law, whether the acts reach, being preſent onelyonly where other men lay down money.
L. Preſ.
You have had counſell?
Mr. Love.
My Lord, I have had none.
Att. Gen.
For counſel, you are to ſend him none, my Lord; he hath his liberty, he hath recourſe for all the people in England to come to him.
Mr. Love.
Counſel have refuſed to come to me, I have there letters about me. Here he reads the letters of ſome Counſellers which they ſent to him to the Tower, declaring they could not come to him unleſſe they were aſſigned by the Court.
Att. Gen.
All that we can ſay to you, is, that Counſell may come to you, if they will.
Maſter Love is commanded away, and the Court adjourns till Wedneſday.