Further Discovery of the Quakers, Reply · Position 10
Poſition 10. No reall Saint but he that is perfect, and perfectly holy in this life, and doth not ſinne.
Our ſeverall proofes, that this is their Principle, are not denyed; but we are reviled for manifeſting this to be an errour from Scripture, though he hath not anſwered one of the many Scriptures we gave againſt this Doctrine.
Excep. 1 The firſt reviling is this, It ſoems there can be no greater offence to you, then to cry downe ſinne, and to grow up to perfection, &c. you pleade for continuance in ſinne and imperfection, &c. you pleade for the Devills Kingdome, putting cleanſing from ſinne and perfection farre off till after death, &c.
Reply. Deniall of perfection, in this life is no pleading for ſin.1. Reader,If thou haſt read our Booke of the Perfect Phariſee, thou wilt ſee, we fore-ſaw this language from them; where we told thee, we expect (from their former uſage in this kinde) they will charge us with pleading for ſinne, pag. 16.17. where we ſhewd, that diſcovering the imperfections of the beſt Saints, leſt they ſhould live upon their owne righteouſneſſe was no pleading for ſin: and this we proved from the practice of Chriſt, (diſcovering the imperfection of the Churches) of the Spir…t, rehearſing the faults of the Saints; of Paul crying out, of the body of his death. So that to diſcover it, is not to pleade for it, unleſſe you will blaſpheme the holy One of Iſrael. Had Nayler conſidered theſe Texts, he might have ſpared the labour to repeate againe a cavill ſo fully anſwered; but he anſwers nothing,
2. But yet to make it more cleare, that to ſay, perfection in holineſſe cannot be attain'd in this life, is not to pleade for ſinne and for the Devills Kingdome: Conſider firſt, The Kingdome of the Devill is not pleaded for there, where there is a preſſing of a continuall wraſtling and ſtrugling in the power of Jeſus Chriſt againſt it, which preſſing is our conſtant practice to our people. For though it is plaine from Scripture, that in the utmoſt attainements of the people of God, ſtill they ſee but in a glaſſe, darkely, 1 Cor. 13. and have not attain'd perfection, Pſal. 3.12. yet it is their duty to ſtruggle and wraſtle againſt the body of their death and to preſſe towards the marke, Phil. 3.14. Againe, doth the Phyſitian meeting with a Patient in a conſumption,Telling a conceited perfectioniſt of ſin, is to deale faithfully vvith his ſoule. who ſtrongly conceives that he is in per… health, though the Phyſitian demonſtrate it, that there … ſuch and ſuch decayes in his vitall parts, doth he by declaring this, pleade for his ſickeneſſe? or rather by this means pleade for his uſe of effectuall means for his recovery? For, the whole no… not a Phyſitian, but they that are ſicke: And Jeſus Chriſt cam… not to call the righteous, but ſinners to repentance. Nay, will not all ſay rather, that the Phyſitian is more faithfull to the ſick… man, then he is to himſelfe? and more an enemy to, and pleader againſt the ſickneſſe, then the man is that conceits h… is ſound and perfect? This is the very caſe betwixt us and Nayler. Nayler ſayes, he is perfect; the Quakers ſay, they are perfect, and without ſinne; we pleade and ſay, he is not perfect nay, he cannot be perfect, while there is ſuch a body of de… in him, and ſuch a plague of ſinne running in his heart; we tell him, that he that ſaith he hath no ſinne, is a ly…r, deceiv… himſelfe, and m…kes God a lyar, and ſo doe pleade with him (not as he malitiouſly would ſcandalize us, to lye ſtill in th… ſtate, content to have the body of his death worke his … but to goe out to the blood of Jeſus Chriſt for cure, that … quities may be pardoned, to fetch ſtrength from the … of Chriſt, not from his light within him, againſt the bub… … up of corruptions in the heart, and preſſe towards the … Whether now pleade for ſinne, Nayler or we? he that wi… … heare of the Saints being ſicke, or under any ſpirituall imp… fection, or we, that demonſtrate their ſinne from Scripture that ſo they may ſeeke after the healings of the blood … Jeſus.
The ſpirit convincing of ſin, doth not p…e for ſinne.3. What is the deſigne of the diſcovery, and convictions … the ſinnes of men by the ſpirit of the living God? Is it … pleade for ſinne? that ſingular office of the ſpirit, Iohn 16.… he ſhall convince the world of ſinne; when God doth ſet o… ſecret ſins, the ſecret ſinnes of Saints before their eyes is it … ſet up the Kingdome of the Devill? What blaſphemy m… Nayler bring upon himſelf? or is it not evidently to pull do… the throne of Satan, and the power of ſinne, which never weakened in the ſoule, till it be diſcovered and never …gt more ſecurely and effectually, then in the heart of him that ſecure, and confident he is compleat and perfect, and ſayes Rev. 3.17. I am rich, and increaſed with goods, and ſtand in need of nothing, when he knowes not he is miſerable, poore, blinde, and naked.
Pleading for perfection here, is a pleading for ſin, proved in ſeven particulars.4. We ſhall adde no more but this, that pleading for this, that any of the ſons of men are perfectly holy, and doe not ſin, (which is the deſigne of Nayler) is really to pleade for ſinne, and to ſet up and ſtrengthen the barrs of the Kingdome of Satan.
1. That ſoule will never ſtruggle after a better ſtate, which lives in a conceit of his perfection here, Rom. 8.24. hope that is ſeene, is not hope: for what a man ſeeth, why doth he yet hope for? how doth this ſtrengthen the Kingdome of darkeneſſe? contrary to Phil 3.12.13.14. Rom. 8, 23. 2 Cor. 5.2.3. Phil. 1.21.22.
2. This is to caſt a needleſneſſe upon the pretious blood of Ieſus, tis a tr…mpling under foot the blood by which we are juſtified, our propitia ion being through Faith in his blood, Rom. 3.25. What needs this fountain for ſinne and uncleanneſſe, Zach. 13.1. where there is no ſinne? What n…ed of a Saviour, where there is no ſinne? the whole need no Phyſi ian, Mat. 9.12. and what a wickedneſſe is this, to make the blood of Chriſt in vain? and what is it, but as Nayler ſaith, …o co…t the blood of the Lord Ieſus as a common thing? Gal. 3.22.
3. Will ſuch a ſoule ever goe out to pardoning promiſes? and how doth Satan by ſuch a Doctrine as this, at once deſtroy the neceſſity of the blood and of the promiſes of Jeſus Chriſt, ſuch as theſe, Iſay 1.18. though your ſinnes be as Scarlet, &c. Iſay 43.25. I am he that blotteth out tranſgreſſions. Heb. 8.12. Your ſinnes and iniquities I will remember no more. Is not this evident from the practice of Qu…kers, both in their ſpeaking and writing? they never ſend theſe ſoules whom they call damned to the pardoning promiſes and blood of Chriſt; but to their owne light to ſave them. What need of the promiſes of pardon, when I have no ſinne? and was it not the Phariſees ſin, Mat. 15.6. Marke 7.13 to make the command of God of none effect? and is it not much more the Quakers ſ…n, to make voyd the promiſes? Rom. 3.3. Rom. 4.14. So Heb. ….2.3. If the Word ſpoken by Angels …as ſteadfaſt, &c. how ſhall we eſcape, if we neglect the Word, which at firſt began to be ſpoken by the Lord.
4. Is not this alſo, this fancy of perfection, the great root of that great ſinne againſt the Goſpel, of ſelfe-righteouſneſſe? which the Apoſtle ſo much declares againſt, Rom. 9.31.32. Rom, 10.2.3. Gal. 5.4. for ſuch is the remaining pride that is in every one, that if they have any thing to glory in, they will ſet it up, as their Idoll in their hearts.
5. How can ſinne be mourned over, and mortified, when neither owned nor diſcovered. We finde bleſſed Paul, a Saint, of another Principle then James Nayler pretends to, he, good man, complaines of an imperfect ſtate, 1 Cor. 13.12. I ſee but in part, he mourns over the body of his death. Rom. 7.24. Oh! wretched man that I am, who ſhall deliver me? But how ſhall we expect this from ſuch as hide their eyes from their boſome ſinnes? there can be no ſenſe of an unſeen, an unfelt, an unacknowledged ſinne. What is the reaſon why ſo little mourning and mortifying? is it not blindneſſe, and want of diſcerning ſinne in the exceeding ſinfulneſſe of it in mens hearts.
6. This is to take away the end of Chriſts convincing men of ſinne, which is that free grace may ſuperabound, Rom. 5.20. What made Paul to cry out of the exceeding abundance of grace, 1 Tim. 1.15. but the exceedingneſſe of his ſinnes? I am the chiefe of ſinners. David, though a man after Gods owne heart, yet the ſight of his great ſins, after he was in a juſtified ſtate, this is that which makes him cry out to the multitude of Gods tender mercies for pardon. Pſal. 51.1. according to thy loving kindneſſe, according to the multitude of thy tender mercies, blot out my tranſgreſſions, &c. How ſhall a Quaker ſee any glory in pardoning grace, as to its dayly coverings of their weakneſſes, when they ſay, they are perfect, and doe not ſinne at all.
The quakers ſinnes diſcovered notwithſtanding their pretence and pleading for perfection.7. This fancy of their perfections, is the hiding from their poore deluded ſoules of thoſe ſinnes, which they are evidently under the power of, in the eyes of any ſpirituall obſerver. For though they cry up their owne perfections, yet who knows not the ſinfulneſſe of their ſelfe-righteouſneſſe, of their many blaſphemies, Hereſies, denying the Lord that bought them, raylings, pride, lying, reproaching of the pretious Ordinances of the living God, and Meſſengers of Jeſus? Alas, what obſervant eye doth not reade theſe evidently in their bookes, writings, words, behaviours? Now who knowes not, if Scripture be true, theſe are wofull corruptions, and damning ſinnes? And ſhall their fancy of perfection be a covering to ſuch abominations as theſe? No, no; the Prophet Iſaiah will tell them otherwiſe, Iſa. 28.20. the bed is ſhorter then that a may can ſtretch himſelfe on it, and the covering narrower then that he can wrap himſelfe in it. Nay, their very pleading they are perfect, convinceth them of ſin; ☜For Job a man of excellency and holines, beyond any of them, ſaith, chap. 9.20.21. If I juſtifie my ſelfe, my owne mouth ſhall condemne me; if I ſay I am perfect, it ſhall alſo prove me perverſe; though I were perfect, yet would I not know my ſoule. But ſuch broken reeds will one day peirce their hands, when the King of terrours ſhall arreſt the body, and the ſorrowes of death ſhall compaſſe them about, then their perfection will appeare to be a dreame. Oh! that Nayler would thinke of that of Bellarmine, who had long diſputed for a perfection of holineſſe; but when he came to dye, then he came to ſee ſomewhat of the raggs of his owne righteouſneſſe, and cryed out, Lord have mercy on me, not according to my workings, but according to thy mercies in Jeſus Chriſt. Reader, if God ever open theſe mens eyes, they will then ſee the need of the blood of Chriſt, when the flames of wrath ſhall be burning up their ſtraw and ſtubble: but if the ſpirit of ſlumber ſhall keep them in blindneſſe and in bondage ſtill, that they cannot ſee and will not owne their imperfection; yet when Chriſt ſhall co…e in flaming fire, how ſhall their righteouſneſſe ſhrivell together as a ſcrowle, and be like ſtubble before the flame? then will the vanity of that Quakers expreſſions be layd open, That holy and cloſe walking with God, is a Saints covering fr…m the wr… … God. Oh! let the Reader, Pſal, 2.12. Kiſſe the Sonne leſt he be angry; when his wrath is kindled …t a little bleſſed are all they that truſt in him.
EAs to this matter of perfection, the ſumme of the reſt of his anſwer is to pleade for perfection here from theſe conſiderations. That this is the end of Chriſts comming, to preſent us perfect that not one jot or tittle of the Law muſt paſſe, till all be fulfilled Rom. 8.3.4. That God ſent his Sonne, that the righteouſneſſe of the Law might be fulfilled in us, and to diſpute againſt perfection here, is to make the commands of Chriſt, and endeavours of the Saints, of none effect.
Reply. 1 Iohn 3.8. opened. How Chriſt deſtroyes the vvorks of the devill.1. As for the firſt, that Chriſt deſtroyes the worke of the Devill, 1 Iohn. 3.8. and to this end was made manifeſt. We anſwer, 1, Chriſt deſtroyed the workes of the Devill for his people, upon the Croſſe. Col. 2.14.15, and having ſpoyled Principalities and Powers, he made a ſhew of them openly tryumphing over them in it. Heb. 2.14. Chriſt himſelfe tooke part of fleſh and blood, that by death he might deſtroy him that had the power of death, viz. the Devill, Doe we then by denying perfection of inherent holineſſe in this life, make voyd the end of Chriſts comming, thus to deſtroy the workes of the Devill? nay, we eſtabliſh it; for by diſcovering of imperfection, we ſend them to glory alone in Chriſt crucified, Gal. 6.14.2. Chriſt deſtroyes the workes of the Devill in his people alſo; and this is the conſtant carrying on of mortification in their hearts, with his owne ſpirit whereby he takes away the doimnion and raigne of ſinne. Rom. 6.14. As in Paul, who though he had the ſpirit of Chriſt, and the dominion of ſinne removed, and Chriſt dayly deſtroying the workes of the Devill in him; yet ſtill he had a Law in his members, warring againſt the Law of his minde, Rom, 7.23. yet there was the ſpirit luſting againſt the fleſh, and the fleſh againſt the ſpirit. Thus Chriſt exerciſeth his conquering power in the conflicts of his Saints. Now though ſinne in Paul where not wholly removed, or deſtroyed at preſent, yet did not Chriſt loſe this end of his being made manifeſt. For firſt, as he had it in part in his dayly conquering. So ſecondly, he will have it in fulneſſe, in his owne appointed time, when the ſoule ſhall ſee him face to face, then that which is in part ſhall be done away, and not till then; as is cleare, 1 Cor. 13.9.10. 3. There are ends of Chriſts being made manifeſt, which are not voyd, becauſe they are not fulfilled in this world, ſuch as, the putting of the Saints into the poſſeſſion of his fulneſſe of glory, the putting of all his enemies under his feet, &c. ſo that perfection in holineſſe being one of theſe things, that are reſerved for a ſtate of glory, we doe not deſtroy the end of Chriſts comming, when we pleade he ſhall attaine this end in his owne appointed time; and though the moſt holy here are full of many infirmities, yet the day ſhall be when the workes of Satan ſhall be deſtroyed in them altogether, in the time appointed by the Father: the Quakers may as well ſay, becauſe the Saints are not now in glory, therefore Chriſt hath loſt his end in dying. What we have ſaid to this, both in Chriſts ſatisfying for ſoules, whereby he preſents them perfect as to juſtification, as alſo his deſtroying at death the whole body of ſinne, when they enter into a perfect ſtate of glory, will ſhew the vanity of his ſecond plea; for though we be not perfectly holy in our ſelves in this life, yet we are perfect as to juſtification, and compleat in him, Col. 2.10. and though the Saints be not compleatly holy at preſent; yet the day is comming when they ſhall, even the time appointed by him that dyed for it, and purpoſeth to preſent us ſpotleſſe at his comming; ſo that Chriſt loſeth not the end of his comming.
Mat. 5.28. opened.As to his third, that Mat. 5.18. not one j…t or tittle of the Law ſhall paſſe till all be fulfilled; which he brings to prove perfection in the Saints, thus; Firſt. It is evident that he that is there ſpoken of in v. 17. as fulfilling the Law is, the Lord Ieſus. I came to fulfill it; and that was ſolely and alone the worke of Chriſt, both as he was the accompliſhment of Propheſies, in the Law or Booke of Scripture, as he was the ſubſtance of all ſhaddowes in the Law ceremoniall; and as he in Perſon, did exactly as Mediator performe all the duties of the Law Morall, that ſo by his obedience, many might be made righteous. What, is this to prove perfection in the Saints, becauſe Chriſt fulfilled all righteouſneſſe.
2. But the naturall and proper ſenſe of this Text is clearely another buſineſſe; Chriſt is ſpeaking here, that the Law, or the word of command and propheſies ſhall ſtand good and ſure; the word here is interpreted in the repetition of them, Luke 16.17. not one jot ſhall fall; ſo here,foreign. not one tittle ſhall paſſe from the Law, it ſhall ſtand good and entire in it ſelfe: Chriſt is not ſpeaking as if the Law ſhould be compleatly fulfilled and obeyed by us; it ſhall ſtand in its force and authority, notwithſtanding that I am come; yet I came not to deſtroy it, but to continue it in its truth, entireneſſe and authority: like that Rom. 3.31. Doe we then make voyd the Law through Faith? nay, we eſtabliſh it. And that Iſay 40.48. repeated 1 Peter 1.25 the graſſe withereth, and the flower thereof fadeth, but the Word of the Lord abideth for ever. And what a non ſenſicall reaſon is this, to prove that the Saints are perfect here, and doe perfectly fulfill the Law, becauſe the Law ſhall not loſe a tittle of its authority and entireneſſe?
Rom. 8.4. opened.3. His third plea to prove the perfection of holineſſe in this life is, Rom. 8.4. that the righteouſneſſe of the Law might be fulfilled in us. To which we anſwer. Firſt, The Apoſtle here ver. 1. is ſpeaking of juſtification, there is now no condemnation to them that are in Chriſt Ieſus. Ver. 3. he layes downe whence that freedome from condemnation flowes, and tells you, that what the Law could not doe, in that it was weake through the fleſh, God ſending his owne Sonne in the likeneſſe of ſinfull fleſh, for ſin, (viz. by a ſacrifice for ſinne, or to ſatisfie for ſinne) condemned ſinne in the fleſh▪ that is, when man could not be juſtified by reaſon that ſinfull fleſh could not ſatisfie the Law, God ſent his Sonne to ſatisfie for ſinne, that ſo the righteouſneſſe of the Law might be fulfilled in us. So that though we perſonally cannot, and could not performe it; yet, through our union with Chriſt, being dead with Chriſt, Col. 2.20. quickned with him, Epheſ. 2.5. we have his righteouſneſſe fulfilled in us. Thou wilt fullier underſtand that this place is meant of the righteouſneſſe of Chriſt ſatisfying and fulfilling the righteouſneſſe of the Law and ſo made ours by our union with him, if thou conſider theſe obſervations,
1. It is no where ſaid in all the Booke of God, that the righteouſneſſe of the Law is fulfilled in this life in any Saint, as to inherent holineſſe; nay the contrary is here aſſerted ver. 3. the Law was weake through Faith. As alſo, Rom. 3.20. that a man is not juſtified by the workes of the Law &c. 2. It is Beza's note, that the righteouſneſſe of the Law might be fulfilled, foreign, in us; not foreign, not of us, or by us. 3. Is not this to goe about to confirme juſtification by inherent holineſſe, againſt which you have had ſuch undenyable proofe. 4. What is this, but to build up the old Popiſh notion of juſtification by inherent holineſſe. 5. If any ſhall thinke that latter expreſſion (who walkes not after the fleſh, but after the ſpirit) ſhall tye this, fulfilling of the Law in us to ſanctification, we referre him to the firſt verſe, where the ſame words are uſed; and yet they are onelyonly layd downe as a deſcription of the Perſons to whom there is no condemnation; as they are layd downe alſo as a deſcription of theſe perſons that enjoy the fruite of that glorious worke of Chriſt fulfilling the Law, and ſatisfying it. So that this Text onelyonly holds forth the ſatisfaction of the Law by Ieſus Chriſt to be made really ours by our union with him, as fully as if it had been performed in our owne perſons. But as to juſtification by inherent holineſſe, or perfection of it in this life, we have fully proved the contrary.
Laſtly, He tells us we looked upon it as a ſtrange thing, that Farneſworth ſhould ſay, No uncleane thing can enter into the Kingdome of Heaven. When as, that which we ſay, is no ſuch thing, but a challenging of Farnſworth his ignorance of the Goſpel, that he can ſee no conſiſtency with theſe two, A Saint cannot be perfect here; And no uncleane thing can enter into the Kingdome of God. Is this to count the Scripture a ſtrange thing? or is it not Farnſworths groſſe ignorance, that he knows no way of entring into glory, unleſſe he be perfect before he dye? Is he not groſſely ignorant of the maine miſtery of juſtification by the blood of Chriſt? May not a man be in part, uncleane, by reaſon of the imperfection of his preſent holines and yet pure and ſpotleſſe too, as to juſtification, by reaſon of the imputation of the obedience of him, who is the Lord our righteouſneſſe. This Reader, is their great Idoll and Diana, and therefore thou wilt pardon our tediouſneſſe, and clearely ſee how blinde theſe men are as to Goſpel righteouſneſſe.