A Forerunner to a Large Review of the Dispute Concerning Infant Baptism, Treatise · Section 15
SECT. XII. Mr. Bs. insinuations of the wickednesse of Anabaptists is Calumniatory, and vainly alleadged to condemne their doctrine of Antipaedobaptisme: Anabaptists and with them myself are vindicated from charges of schisme, neglect of the Lords day, &c.
PAge 201. To deterre his hearers from Anabaptistry Mr. B. had said, Where hath there been known a society of Anabaptists since the world first knew that proved not wicked? A direct answer to this question thus propounded can hardly be made, nor is it necessary. It can hardly be made, it being a question that depends partly upon much reading of histories in former times both about the doctrine and manners of men comparatively obscure and contemned. Whereas Historians speak little but of eminent societies, and occurrences that make a remarkable change in the affaires of their time: and of things done in those ages in which Historians are but few, and not of the best note, when greatest darknesse was on the Church, and hardest censures of the best: partly upon an exact intelligence of the affaires of the present Churches of so called Anabaptists in many Countreys, who have been so depressed by the opposite party as that it is somewhat hard to learne where they be. All the intelligence I can get of them is by bookes for the most part of them that are their adversaries. Besides, it is very difficult to passe a censure upon a society, which is not a consistent but a flowing body, some members coming in, some cast out, some dying, same sound, some rotten, some removing dwellings, subject to change of Ministers, opinions, &c. whether in the end they have proved wicked or not, it being usual that some in such societies do prove wicked, and others prove well. And what man is there that wants not either age to see the beginninig and end of such a society, or opportunity to know the state of all or most of such a society, or judiciousnesse to conclude whe her they proved wicked or not, it being certain that men may fall foully and yet die in Christ, and there being no fixed rule for us to judge who dies wicked, who not. The wisest Divines do advise caution in judging the final estate even of selfe-murtherers that have died with horrible speeches in their mouthes not long before their death. I thinke God onelyonly fit to judge of mens final estate, and therefore think him fit onelyonly to resolve Mr. Bs. question. If I should aske Mr. B. where hath there been known a society of Antiprelatists, that have not in the end proved wicked, I think it would be as hard a thing for Mr. B. to give answer to it, as for me to give answer to his question. When men speak of men they speak as they are affected, some magnifying whom others debase, some counting that wicked which others count pious, he's canonized as a Saint, a Martyr by some who is judged a Traitor, Malefactor by others. They that passe such a censure must trust much to informations, which whether they be partial or impartial, true or false who can tell? Nor is it necessary to answer Mr. Bs. question. For to what end? Is it thereby to conclude against me the doctrine they held? But what may be known by the certain rule of Scripture without this uncertain sign. And therefore I conceive of this question not unlike the artifice of the Jesuites to deterre people from the plain doctrine the Protestants hold by calling for Catalogues of Protestants in all ages, demanding where was your Church before Luther? As if we must not own a manifest truth we find in Scripture, unlesse we can produce teachers of it in former dayes, and societies of professors of it that were not wicked. Yet I gave for answer some instances of some societies now in Londor, 500. years ago in France, and some later in Germany. As for those now in London, Mr. B. saies, 1. They are not yet come to the proof; when they have reached to the end of what they are tending to, then it will be seen what they will prove, if they do not return and repent. Answ. What he meanes by the end of what the societies in London under baptisme (I mean) are tending to I know not. If he mean Levelling, or Ranting, or universal grace, they have as much for their number and quality opposed them as any other in London; if he know any other dangerous end they aime at, it were fit it should be named, that their designe may be prevented: if not, who can interpret this speech of Mr. B. but as from a man out of a settled hatred to the opinion unwilling to hope well of the persons, against the rule of charity, 1 Cor. 13. 7. which hopeth all things in them for the future whom he knows not for present to be desperately bad, which he wil not say of the Churches of Anabaptists in Germany, Holland, England, of whom Mr. B. in his book against Mr. Bedford page 310. saith thus: Yea what will you say to all the Churches of the Anabaptists in Germany, Holland, England, &c. Have none of them grace till baptized? Are you sure so many thousands are all unpardoned, or that God is not wont to pardon them and give them grace? I dare not think so uncharitably of them. And after Who dare think that it is (of the Anabaptists) such an error as excludeth them from grace? There have been societies of them for a great while, though somewhat latent afore these times, and of them many of the leaders are fallen asleep in the Lord, many remain unblameable in respect of their faith and life. And therefore why Mr. B. should so forebode as he doth the wicked end of the societies remaining I know no reason but his ill opinion of them. But should God in his just judgement let it fall out so that they should prove wicked, as some Churches, yea the most famous, as the seven in Asia have done, which have begun well and ended ill, it is no certain evidence against their doctrine, sith their miscarriages may come from other causes, whereof here and Examen part. 2. sect. 5. some are assigned by me, and are such as have befallen others as well as they. 2. Saith Mr. B. It is hard with your cause when you cannot name one society of them that ever lived in the world that proved not wicked, except those now alive whose ends we yet see not. Answ. 1. It were not hard with our cause though we name no society or person before our selves that were Antipaedo baptists as long as we have the Scripture for it. 2. If I could not name one society, yet there may be many, we have but obscure intelligence of many Churches in the East and other places. The Georgians children or the Christians children of Cholcis say Heylin in his Geography in the description of Armenia, out of Brerewood, Alex. Rosse in his censure of religio medici, &c. are not baptized till they be eight years old: How they live, what they be we have no clear intelligence probably honest though poore Christians. The certain state of them in London is not known to many, much lesse the state of those farre off. 3. We have seen the ends of many of the societies to have been blessed: and how otherwise we now alive should see the end of a successive society, I do not well conceive, until is be quite dissolved. Mr. B. addes. 3. If I were never so able to answer this, yet as the world goes it is not safe to speak all or half the wickednesse of the Anabaptists now living, which the history of this age will speak to posterity. Answ. 1. Why it should not be safe for Mr. B. to speak half the wickednesse of the Anabaptists now living, I cannot divine, except it be, because if he or others speak of them while they live they may be convinced of lying, as Beza did the tale of his dying a Papist. They are not so many, nor so formidable in power, or so spiteful in spirit that it should be unsafe for Mr. B. to tell the worst he knowes of them. However me thinks of any man Mr. B. being according to his declaration of himself in such expectations of death as neare, and so resolute to speak truth, should not be moved by the unsafenesse of speaking truth. Yea if Mr. B. should speak all he could, I think he should not more exasperate them then he hath done part. 2. chap. 14. Those that sit at the sterne I cannot yet learne have such hard thoughts of them as Mr. B. And he that reades Mr. Edwards Gangraena, Mr. Baillee his Anabaptism, and other writings, may imagine that if there were worse matters to charge them with, they would not be spared in this age, especially by those that are out of their reach. After-Historians may relate as partially as the present, and therefore I shall not think it lawful to condemne them upon such dark intimations as this, but think the better of them till their wickednesse be laid open. 4. Saith Mr. B. Yet if you had named that society that are not guilty of schisme and demolishing the Church by division and contempt and reproach of the godly. Ministery and disobedience to those in government, further then they please them, and covenant-breaking, and neglect of the Lords day, &c. you would credit the particular society if you make it good. In the meane time I see them rolling down the hill so fast that I think many have but one step lower to go. Answ. Schisme was imputed to Protestants by Papists, for their not joining in their corruptions with them, by Prelatists to non-conformists, for not yielding to ceremonies of Bishops. Covel in his preface to his answer to Burges, accused the most moderate of them as making a rent in the Church, and breaking from the Bishops (even in that where in they were very passive) choosing rather to for sake their function and calling then to yield conformity to the ceremonies of the Church. Allen and Shepherd answer to Mr. Ball page 27. Advert. to the Read. say truly: Scarce truth or error can now adaies be received but it is maintained in a way of schism. I confesse it is too true, that it is hard to name any society of Anabaptists or Infant-baptists that are not in a schisme, and commonly both parties guilty of making the breach. I am conscious to my selfe of using what meanes I could for reformation without schisme, if possible: but I find (it as mens spirits are) impossible: yet Mr. B. is not ashamed to tell the world in print, that he hath as good evidence that I am a Sect-Master, as that I am a Christian. I made to Mr. M. in the Epilogue of my Examen as faire notions as I could devise, yea such as a holy sweet-spirited man and understanding did much rejoice to reade, and blessed God for it afore I sent it to Mr. M. Yet Mr. M. and Mr. Ley interpreted them as the challenge of a braving Goliath. I was desirous to see Mr. Bs. arguments in writing. He would not, but prints in a way that proclaimes to the world, that he loo es on me and all the societies of Antipaedobaptists as persons intolerable. Infant-baptisme we see to be a manifest corruption, we know it hath no precept or example expresse or virtual in Scripture, that it with infant-communion began some ages from Christs birth upon the conceit of necessity to save an infant from perishing: we know it is a duty to be baptized, yea by Christ made a concurring requisite to salvation with believing, Marke 16. 16. and so a fundamental by Mr. Bs. rule in his addition to the preface of the second part of his Saints everlasting rest, where he defines Fundamentals Those things which God hath made the conditions of salvation. Infant-baptizers will not baptize believers, yea they inveigh, abhorre both the opinion and practise we conceive a necessary important duty. We can scarce come to their meetings, but we must heare the truth bitterly declaimed against, persons that hold it reviled, error published, infant-baptisme practised; if we be silent we are judged to consent, if we speake it makes an uproare: we are painted out so deformed as that men are almost afraid to have speech with us, or to hear us, or to joine in communion with us. Magistrates are by writings and Sermons incited against us. I know not what we can do lesse then be baptized as Christ appoints, and receive the Lords Supper. Mr. B. page 341. counts the error of the old and new Socinians denying the continuance of baptisme as a standing ordinance in the Church, nothing so bad as my opinion, upon a frivolous pretence as if I made void the end of baptisme in that where in the true end of baptisme is preserved, which is that the baptized engageth himself to be Christs disciple. So that even as the rigid Lutherans for their Consubstantiation had rather joine with Papists then Calvinists, Mr. B. is more willing to comply with that Antichristian, and I had almost said Atheistical way of living above ordinances, then favour Anabaptists. In this case if there be schisme in our practise, let all the world judge whether we be not passive rather then active, and whether the true cause of it be in us, or Mr. Bs. and others invectives and actings against us. We make not schisme, but suffer it: Mr. B. by this last book hath done more to promote it then any Anabaptist I know, and how farre the wayes of other Antagonists have been from peace, the intelligent will perceive though I be silent. Contempt and reproach of Godly Ministers by men of opposite parties, is very frequent and mutual. I have often endeavoured, but cannot expresse it: yet that societies of Anabaptists as they are a body do so I do not find. As for obedience to Governours further then they please them, the moderne so called Anabaptists in England and Holland may vye with their adversaries. The accidents of this year in England which I am unwilling to mention, may serve to wipe away the reproach of Anabaptists in this respect. Covenant-breaking till instance be given wherein is so general a charge that an answer cannot be given. I know men are taken to break Covenant who conceive they keep it. Neglect of the Lords day I think cannot be charged on the societies of Anabaptists, however it may be on some members. Some of the leaders of them appear sound in this point. Mr. Blackwood Apostol. bapt. The Jewish Sabbath being put to an end, Col. 2. 16. we observe the Lords day from the Apostles example, and the morality of the fourth Com. which requires one day in seven. Mr. Edward Harrison Paedobapt. oppugned page 4. makes the rule for one day in seven moral and natural, and the altering the day simply Evangelical from Apostolical example, which having not meerly temporary reason is enough to prove an institution from Christ, which sort of proof we have, Acts 20. 7. 1 Cor. 16. 1, 2. Mr. B. knowes the Protestant Churches beyond-sea more guilty of loosenesse in opinion and practise about the Lords day then English Anabaptists▪ When Mr. B. speaks of their rolling down the hill so fast in placing their religion in full mouth'd oathes and blasphemies, &c. it is very hard for Mr. B. to charge that upon them, which is the act of some particular persons whom they condemne, and warne others of, and whereof not a few have been of other societies then theirs. My second instance 500. years ago I have vindicated before. My third instance is of societies at this day in the Low Countreys, and Mr. B. answers about them, of whom Bullinger and others wrote who were dead afore they were borne, which is not to the businesse. Yet Mr. B. might consider that it is confessed that even then Menno Simonis detested Muncer, & Becold, as Becman. Exercit. Theol. 21. page 359, 362. acknowledgeth, that even then there were aliqui innocentiâ vitae commendabiles, commendable for their innocency of life, as Heresbachius relates Histor. Anabapt. monast. c. 8. and those at this day it's likely are not guilty of much scandal in practise, when Cloppenburg. Gangr. Anabapt. disput. 148. Ampliug. dial. thesi. 2. Mr. Paget defence of Church-govern. part. 1. ch. 4. who lived neare them, make it their fault that they are strict in excommunicating for small matters, and Cloppenburg. in the Epistle Dedicatory to his Gangrene saith, The troopes of Anabaptists that dwelt in Friesland after the commotions at Munster, although they trouble not the Common-wealth having cast off corporal weapons, yet they suffer not the more pure reformed Churches to be edified without daily conflicts. From whence I gather that their conversation there is as other mens, saving for their rigid discipline and different opinions: in the most whereof whether truly or falsly charged on them by Cloppenburgius, they are not owned by those in England whose Confession is extant. To Mr. Bs. charging of me of untruths, and covetousnesse, and malice, and contempt of my brethren page 202, 203. there is an answer made before and after where speeches and practises to prove these are objected. He chargeth me with pride in my usual way of putting off the authority of their arguments and judgements with a contemptuous smile, or wonder at the sillinesse of them. But therein there is no despising of their persons, but onelyonly of their arguments: which if I know to be weak I dare not make shew as if I counted them strong: that were to put darknesse for light, and if I do shew dislike with a smile or wonder (though others rather say I do reject them with anger mistaking my earnestnesse in speaking for that passion) this is usually lesse offensive then alteration of wordes. And if I use wondering at their sillinesse, I am sure Mr. B. is not behind me in this book, whose frequent exclamations of sillinesse, &c. are to be seene where he had little or no cause but the defect of his own apprehension, as shall appear in the examining his book, and therefore if for this I be judged proud Mr. B. should do well to search himself who differs from the most learned and godly in the world in more things then I do, and I imagine with more peremptorinesse and lesse evidence then I bring from my adversaries own confessions. Perfidiousnesse he chargeth me not with: it is a great question in this age whether it be a sin. Answ. I think it is no question whether breaking of Covenants and oathes be a sin: but whether the not setling uniformity according to the advice of the Assembly at Westminster, the not conjoining with the Scots, the engagement to the present government, &c. be perfidiousnesse or no Wherein if Mr. B. hold the affirmative, it's very probable there will be found some to encounter with him, when his arguments are seen in writing. What he tells me, that my not reproving the prophaning the Lords day, and excusing my self from resolving the question concerning its morality hath no good savour, is a charge which I imagine comes from some tale brought Mr. B. whereby he is abused. I have spoken against prophaning the Lords day as I have judged meet in the places I have preached: my judgement about its morality is succinctly set down Examen part 2. sect. 8. At Bewdley I did often in my prefaces before I began morning-exercises at the chappel on the Lords day presse them to the observation of it, and in my Cursory Exposition of the three first chapters of the Revelation on publique fastdayes, and of Genesis on the Lords day, delivered my self more fully in opening Gen. 2. 3. Revel. 1. 10. And when the question was propounded in the weekly meeting we had to edifie one another, Whether the observation of every first day of the week as a Sabbath, be of Divine institution? I resolved it at the next meeting affirmatively. And after I had in one or two Lectures (for so I may call my dictates at Bewdley in resolving their hard questions) cleared the termes, 1. Concerning the measure of the first day of the week, examining whether precisely 24. houres, and when to begin, and when to end, are necessary for the account of the time, resolving it to be measured for observation as we do other dayes for working, allowing time for necessities. 2. Concerning the observation of a Sabbath, what is requisite thereto; wherein I resolved that it is to be observed by rest and holinesse, about both which I resolved many cases. At the next time I drew the substance of my proof into this one syllogisme. If solemne worship of God in full congregations be required of God, and fixed dayes be necessary thereto, and observed by all or most Nations even Heathens, nor belongs it to any but God to appoint it to his service, and God appointed a seventh day Sabbath from the beginning, and commanded it in the fourth Commandement a mong the morals, and the Apostles distinguished from other dayes the Lords day by title, precept and example, as appropriate to God, and Christians with common consent so took it, and used it after their dayes the Jewish Sabbaths being abrogated, then the observation of every first day of the week as a Sabbath is of Divine institution. But solemn worship of God, &c. Ergo. The sequel of the Major I stood not long in proving, supposing some morality of a Sabbath being infolded in the first institution and the fourth Commandement and the Apostles fixing that on the Lords day, is a sufficient declaration of Gods mind to have it observed. But the Minor I proved by parts. And after I had proved the two first Propositions, by reason first of the failing of the meeting through some sad accidents, and then the removing of my dwelling & books, and my seldome being with them, I did not prosecute it till one moved that I would resolve them about that question, whether it were to tempt me or otherwise they know who had a hand in it. I told them what I had done already, and that of what I had begun I had not any breviate about me, but I conceived that in my study I had, and therefore I desired their respite till my next comming to them, that I might by reviewing what I had done and adding some further reading fit my self to resolve them: in which they seemed to rest, but it's likely some or othertold Mr. B. of this, who I perceive wanted not tale-bearers, and he in imagine sticks not to interpret this my respite (which he calls an excuse from resolving the question concerning the morality of the Lords day, though I had long before resolved it, but had not fully confirmed my argument) as having some ill savour of licentiousnesse, though about a monethmonth after I repaired to them, and so fully confirmed the other seven Propositions, that the company (who were as many of the best-affected and intelligent there as the roome could hold) declared themselves satisfied thereabout. Mr. B. also page 258. saies of my exceptions against one story in the book of Gods judgements on Sabbath-breakers, he is jealous lest it be from no good will to the doctrine of the morality of the Christian Sabbath, as being against the scope of the book, though the occasion shew it was onelyonly to prove the uncertainty of relations, that men may not rest on them as proofes of a truth. But I perceive as Mr. B. is very prone to have hard thoughts of me, so both he and Mr. M. seek advantage to create prejudice against me about this point of the Lords day, which makes me more full in my clearing my self in this thing, and in other things, not so much regarding my own personal esteeme, as desirous to prevent that indirect way of wounding the truth through my sides. I would have no man adhere to my tenet because it's mine, nor would I have any to reject it because it is mine. I know too much evil by my self, yet not in the things in which I am accused, at least not in that degree in which Mr. B. accuseth me. Mr. Bs. telling me in print this manner of crimes not proved, but imagined is no whit justified by the rules and examples he brings: his ranking me with seducers I defy, and know that I shall better be able to prove it against him, then he against me.