Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 4 · Chapter 2
CHAP. II.
The Arguments of Mr. R. for the first Adequate and Catholick subject of the Keyes are vindicated from the unsatisfying replies of Mr. H.
MR. H. The Apostles (saith Mr. R.) stand in the room of the whole Catholick ministerial guides, when they revealed the Keyes.
Ans. The Apostles in that commission were extraordinary persons sent to all the world to lay the foundation of the Gospel, by an Apostolick power; and in this sense they have no successors, nor stand in the room of any.
Ans. If the Apostles represent none in this sense, Mat. 28. 19. Mark 16. 15. Iohn 20. 21. Go and teach, &c. whose sins ye remit, &c. Then none succeed the Apostles to teach, baptize, remit, and retain sins; Pastors then must do these without a commission from Christ, or these ordinances must cease.
2. Mat. 28. Iohn 20. he sends the Apostles, and sayes, behold I am with you to the end of the world, in preaching and baptizing. The Apostles Mat. 28. 19, 20 Joh. 20, 21, 22. When they received power to preach and baptize, did represent all ordinary teachers to the end of the world, or then ordinary teachers want all calling. Annot. of the English Divines, Mat. 28. 29. Ile uphold you and your Successors in the ministry at all times, without intermission. Calvin. in Locum. Usque ad consummationem] haec particula denotat non solis Apostolis esse dictum, quia non in unam aetatem, &c. Beza, alloquitur Ecclesiam.But the▪ Apostles do not live to preach and baptize to the end of the world; Ergo, that ministerial presence of Christ must be promised to some represented by the Apostles. So the English Divines, Calvin, Beza, Diodati, as Apostles gifted with power of working miracles, &c. they represented none, nor had they any successors. So Mat. 28. the Pastors have the power of the Keyes and of office given them, page 210.
Mr. H. To that Church (saith Mr. R) hath Christ given, as Mr. H. c. 12. pa. 1. page 214. 225.to the first subject, the ordinances and ministry, which he prin…ipally intended to perfect, to gather, and to bring to the unity of faith. But he principally intended to perfect, to gather, to bring to the unity of faith, by these ordinances and ministry, the whole Catholick visible Church, and secondarily this or that congregation.
Ans. Mr. R. lib. 2. p. 248. professedly disputes for a Church invisible, to be the first subject of all ordinances, Christian priviledges and officers.
Ans. Mr. H. halfs my words, how Mr. R. makes the invisible Church such a first subject is abundantly declared.
2. These are not to me contrary; for the Catholick visible Church, which the Lord intends and decrees to bring to glory▪ The Catholick integral visible Church which Christ intendsto save, and the Catholick integral invisible church are the same, and d…ffer but in accidents But M. H. his Church Catholick visible and invisible, in many persons, differ as Elect & Reprobate.is both the invisible chosen, and really believing Church, the Church Mystical, and also the Church Catholick visible, fed by the visible and audible ministrie of Apostles, Pastors, &c. onelyonly in that place I deny that body, Eph. 4. 12. to be visible in Mr H. his sense, as he makes his congregation visible, of which Magus and Iudas are members; and therefore Mr. H. in vain alledges, that those whom Christ purposes to bring to the unity of saith &c. Eph. 4. 11. are such who certainly shall be saved, and are true beleevers, and it is undeniable, ordinances and ministry in their saving fruits, are given firstly to true believers, if we regard the Lords intention, as I ever teach.
Mr. H. Mr. R. teacheth that the intendment of Salvation, and the giving of Ordinances and Ministry keep not equal pace each with other. So the Arminians (saith he) teach lib 2 page 248. but that God doth intend principally to bring the whole Catholick visible Church, that consists of Elect and Reprobate, to the unity of the faith, &c, is false.
Ans. Repeat my Argument as I frame it, and the flubble is blown away: To, and for that Church, as the subject and object and end, hath Christ given as to the first Church, the ordinances and ministry which he principally intends and decreet, to bring to the unity of faith, and to salvation:
But he intends and decrees to bring to the unity of saith, and to salvation, by these means, onelyonly the whole Catholick visible Church, and that mystical Catholick body of it selfe invisible, but made visible by a calling and inviting ministry of Apostles, Pastors, &c, Eph. 4. 11, 12. for the Lord giveth for the loved world, Iohn 3. 16. for the Catholick visible Church, sanctified by the word and baptism, Eph. 5. 25. for his sheep, Iohn 10. 11. for all his scattered children, Iohn 11. 52. for the whole world, 1 Iohn 2. 1, 2. Christ and Apostles, Pastors, Ministry, Seals in their substance principally, and all these for this or that, or these real beleevers secondarily. Mr. H. leaves out these words of mine, first to, and for the Saints, and so perverts my Argument, and frames another of his own for mine, which I own not.
9. If that proposition be utterly untrue, These whom Christ M…. H. must side with Arminians and Socinians, who …ach that God intends to save many who are never saved. Remons. Syn. Do…drac. Art. 1. p. 7, 8. Remonstran. Confes. c. 9. Collatio Hagiens. p. 83, 84. corvin. contr. Tilen. p. 105, 106, 154, 398, 399. Episcop. disp. 9. Th. 5.intends to bring to the unity of faith, are such certainly, as shall be saved: Then must Mr. H. side with Arminians, who say that grace is common to all, and that God by his antecedent will intends to save all without exception, Elect and Reprobate, but the Reprobate break that intention and decree of God. So the Arminians.
3. Saith he, It is undeniable that Ordinances and Ministry are not given first to real believers.
Ans. It is undeniable that Ordinances and Ministry are given first to real beleevers, upon a purpose and intention to save them, Eph. 4. 11, 12. and that all priviledges of special note in the Mediator Christ, promises, ministry, seals in their fruit, are given according to Gods gracious intention, to, and for onelyonly the invisible Church, as I demonstrate, and not to and for Mr. H. his visible congregation, whereof Magus is a member, and according to my principles, the intendment of salvation from God, and the giving of ordinances and ministry, first, according That is false that Mr. H. saith that the whole visible Church, Eph. 4. 11, 12, which Christ intends to bring to glory, doth consist of good and bad.to that intendment: secondly, in their saving fruit, as Mr. R. demonstrates, go with equal pace.
3. That God intends to bring the whole visible Church of real beleevers, to the unity of faith; for visible and invisible in my sense are not con…rary, but the whole visible Church Catholick is both invisible, being known to God only, and visible also, being called by a visible and audible ministry, according to the purpose of God. As Paul, Rom. 8. 28. being a body perfected and gathered by the ministry of Apostles, Pastors, Eph. 4. 11, 12.
And 4. It is undeniably false, which Mr. H. saith that the whole visible Church consists of good and bad, Elect and Reprobate; for this Catholick visible Church and body, Eph. 4. 22. Eph. 4. 11, 12. Colos. 1. 18. consists only of elect ones and real beleevers: but Mr. R. will not undertake. So much for Mr. H. his Catholick congregation, of which Magus and Iudas are visible Citizens: and such a Church is not the first and proper, Armin. Resp. ad art. 5. p. 102 Armin. Anti-Perkins p. 57. Remonst. Syn. Dordra. Art. 3. 4. p. 8, 9. 16, 17 Remonst. conf. c. 17. sect. 2. Cat…ches. Ruttoviensis c. 6. pag 210.and principal subject of ordinances, promises, seals, ministry in their saving fruits, except Mr. H. will side with Arminians and Socinians in this point; who teach that God intends grace and salvation to all, but many are not saved, and so the intention of God fails.
Mr. H. But what is all this to the present controversie, that to the guides of the Catholick Church Christ hath committed the keys, as to the first subject: we argue thus.
To that Church which Christ principally intends to bring to the unity of the faith, Christ hath given the power of the Keyes, as to the first subject. But Christ doth not principally intend to bring to the unity of faith, &c. and to gather the ministry of the Catholick Church; therefore to the ministry of the Catholick Church hath he not given the Keys, as to the first subject.
Ans. This is not to the controversie, concerning the first Due …ight of Presb. c. 9. sect. 9. Pag. 242, 243.subject of the Keyes, nor did I bring it in upon that account, but the question is concerning the constitution of a visible Church, in which I deny that the visible congregation, o… our brethrens visible Church, of which Iudas and Magus are as essentiall members, and their Church acts as valid, as Peter and Iohn the visibly and really beleeving Apostles are, or their Church acts are. I deny (I say) such a congregation to be the first subject of the stiles, properties, priviledges of special note, of promises, seals, officers in their saving fruits in the Lords intention, and have demonstrated that the Catholick invisible Church is only the first, principal and proper subject of these, and that our brethren mistake the nature of the visible Church, I mean in all the dispute the integral Catholick visible Church militant: otherwise Divines take the Catholick Church, for these that have been, and now are glorified, and shall be, and are not yet born, and that now are; but none of the two former are capable subjects of the Keyes.
2. The proposition is not mine, nor the argument: the Keys are given (say I) to the guides of the Catholick visible Church, as to the formal subjectum, first and proper, and are exercised by them, by the consent of the people, men, or women; nor should any new act of Doctrine be passed, or weightier points of discipline in Assemblies, until the people hear of them, the keyes are given to, and for the whole Catholick Church of beleevers, as the object and end, for the gathering them in to the unity of faith, Eph. 4. 11, 12. and as this visible Church falleth under the intention and decree of God to be saved, they are one and the same persons with the invisible Church, as the body of Christ, Eph. 4. & 12. is taken for both the invisible body.
It is 2. taken more largely, as the Catholick visible body comprehends all that hear, and profess subjection to the Gospel, elect and reprobate, and the Lord gives a ministry, seals, and visible membership to all, and every one of this body; to Esan, to Iacob, to Iudas the traitor, as to Peter a beleever, not to bring all and every one of them to the unity of faith, and to the acknowledgement of the Son of God, but for other unlike ends, finibus disparibus, to save some, to make others inexcusable.
Mr. H. If all ministerial power (saith Mr. R.) be given to a congregation (as our brethren say) under the name of a flock of redeemed Pag. 22…. …17.ones, as the body of Christ, Acts 20. 28. Colos. 1. 18. Then it belongs to the Catholick Church, for these titles agree first to the Catholick visible Church, Colossians 1. 18. Ephesians 1. 25, 26. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Eph. 2. 19, 20. and so they come to our hand.
Ans. The Catholick Church admits of a threefold apprehension.
1. As it implies a covenanting congregation of beleevers.
2. As it represents the whole, ut totum representative, an Oecumenick Council.
3. Ut totum integrale, as it is the whole Catholick Church spread all the world over, if Mr. R. mean the first, we agree, but the guides cannot be the first subject, for the Catholick Church, and the guides are different. The second part Mr. R. grants, that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a congregation under the name of the flock, &c. Hence his cause must needs suffer shipwrack, that the Keys are given to the ministry of the Catholick Church.
Ans. That the first member of your threefold apprehension hath any warrant in Scripture, or sound D…vines, is a meer apprehension. I desire the Reader to consider the Catholick Church.
A… 1. It implyes a covenanting congregation of beleevers; The Catholick Church congregational is a new fancy, void of the word and all reason & unthority of Fathers, Doctors, Divines, &c.give a warrant from Scripture, sound Reason, or Divines for that. The Catholick Church is the whole body militant on earth, excluding none; but a congregation of covenanting beleevers excludes all Churches on earth, except fourty or fifty persons.
2. The Catholick body organical of man, includes all the body and organs of it, head, eyes, mouth, tongue, feet, &c. Now what sense is here? the Catholick organical body of man admits of a threefold apprehension.
1. It implyes the congregation of five fingers combined in the hand, and the hand is predicated of this or that hand: and so is the Catholick body of the whole Catholick organick body of man. Or to come to a politick body, the Catholick body of England admits of a threefold apprehension.
1. It implies the congregation of all the City of York covenanted together, and the City of York is the Catholick body of England, which is predicated and affirmed of this or that City of York. No man speaks so but onelyonly Mr. Hooker that I know. Since the world was, no man can say a single congregation, take it either in the common nature of a congregation of a 1000. or for this or that congregation, that a congregation is the Catholick Church, no more then the hand is the Catholick organical body of man.
2. Mr. R. grants (saith he) that the ministerial power of the Keyes is given to a Congregation under the name of a flock, &c.
Answ. Reade my words, if I deny not that, and speak onelyonly according to the grant and confession of our Brethren.
2. OnelyOnly hypothetically, if all power Ministerial be given to a congregation (by our Brethrens confession) under the name of a flock of Redeemed ones, &c. then it belongs firstly to the Catholick Church, i. e. to the congregation, I never dreamed that a congregation was the Catholick Church, and I should be crazed in judgement if so I had spoken. And how How the Keys belong to the Catholick visible integral Church as to the object, and to the Catholick Ministry & officers as to the formal subject.the Keys are given, or belong to the Catholick integral body as the object and final cause, to the Guides of the Catholick Church as the first formal subject, I often declare: and what shipwrack or breaking of board is here, let the Reader judge. I difference between the Ministers and the Catholick Church by this means: but that Mr. H. hath said not one word to my Arment. If power, priviledges spiritual be given to the congregation as the redeemed flock and body of Christ; then must power and priviledges be given first and principally to such a company to which these styles of The Redeemed of Christ, The Body of Christ agree first; but to be the redeemed of Christ, to be the body of Christ, to be his redeemed ones, agree first not to the Church of Ephesus, nor to any particular Church National, Provincial, Presbyterial, or Congregational, but to the whole Catholick Body, Ioh. 3. 16. & 10. 11. & 11. 52. 1 Ioh. 2. & 2. and when Christ is called the Head of the Body, Eph. 1. 22. Coloss. 1. 18. I shall judge him scarce worthy the name of a Divine. I cannot expound the places of a single congregation, … Eph. 1. …2. Col. 1. 18. the holy Ghost speaks of that Body, which is the fulness of him, who filleth all in all, Eph. 1. and of the Body of which Christ i… Head, as the first begotten of the dead, and of the whole body reconciled by the blood of the cross, if it be said, the congregation in its common nature is the first subject of the Keys, for it contains all the Catholick Church.
Ans. It contains no women, aged children, servants, nor sojourners, nor dismembred visible Saints, and therefore the congregation Independent, in any sense is a narrow and impertinent subject of the Key; and this is shipwrack really to the cause of Mr. H. as for that, that the Church, Cant. 6. is a congregation, The Church that is one, Cant. 6. is not a congregation in any sense that can meet in one place.in general, and that the Church is one there genere in kinde, its against the Text.
1. The congregation is not one, but hath threescore Queens, fourscore Concubines, Virgins without number, who are integral parts of that one Catholick Church, ver. 8. but essential parts of a congregation, in any sense they are not, but Churches in nature different: If these were species, then every one of the threescore must be that one onelyonly Church, for genus praedicatur de specie. But it is sure that the innumerable Virgins, that is, believers, members of the Church, who with chaste love adhere to their onelyonly Husband Christ, Cant. 1 3. that is, such as are chosen and called of God (saith Ainsworth on the place) and Ainsworth contradicts M. H. Cant. 6.faithful (whether whole Churches, as 2 Cor. 11. & 2. or particular persons) cannot be every one of them that one onelyonly Church Catholick, for then every single Church should be the onelyonly one Spouse of Christ, ver. 8, 9.
3. To that Church, I mean, for their salvation and good, hath Christ given the Keys, which is the complete Spouse of The congregation is not the complete Spouse to which Christ beareth an adequate relatiō of husbandlove, as to his redeemed onesChrist, and to which Christ bears the adequate and full relation of the love of Redemption, Eph. 5. 25. Ioh. 3. 16. 1 Ioh. 2. 1, 2. Iob. 10 11. of love of justifying and washing, Rev. 1. 5. & 5. 4, &c. But neither the congregation this or that, nor the congregation that exists ut genus in specie (a… most illogically Mr. H. says) is the complete Spouse of Christ, nor doth Christ bear the full and adequate relation of the love of Redemption, of Justification, Sanctification, to the congregation in any sense. For.
1. This object of love takes not in the visible Saints sojourners, dismembers, as said is, to whom Christ bears a love as to chaste virgins.
2. Nor is the love of God in choosing, effectual calling, justifying the ungodly; carrying them on to persevere to the end, terminated upon societies visible, as visible congregations, for so he should love all the Reprobates, Iudas, Magus, who are all visible Church-members: But its certain Christ loves none of these with that adequate love of Redemption, nor with marriage-love, as he doth his beloved Spouse, Cant. 4. 7, 8, 9, 10. & 6 4, 9, 10.
3. Not is that love of Redemption terminated upon persons onelyonly upon the bare relation of Church-members, for Christ takes them not into the Kings Chambers, Cant. 1. 4. to his banqueting house, Cant. 2. 4. nor draws he them after him by his powerful grace, Cant. 1. 4. Ioh. 6 44. nor blesses he, or imbraces them, his left hand being under their head, and his right hand imbracing them, Cant. 2. 6. nor doth God teach them, Ioh. 6. 45. nor ingrave his Law in their heart, or give a heart of flesh, and a new heart, Ier. 31. 33. Ezek. 11. 19. & 36 26, 27. onelyonly in the capacity of visible Church-members, for he bestows this love upon the Jaylor, upon Saul, upon the Eunuch, and upon many thousands, before they profess as members; yea, and upon thousands in the bosom of the Church of Rome, who out of weakness (though that be their sin) dare not profess the Gospel: Then it must be false, that the nature of the Church, and of those spiritual priviledges that belong to the congregation in general, or in this or this congregation; and that the relation of Christ as Husband, King. Head, Seeker of the lost, Good Shepherd, and of his Redeeming love, is broader than a visible congregation, in any sense Mr. Hooker shall take it, and is no ways commensurate thereunto. And so not one of my Arguments but stand in force.