Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 4 · Chapter 11
CHAP. XI.
Of the National Church, and the lawfulness of a National Covenant.
MR. H. The greater authority of the politick whole body Par. 4. pag. 38, 39, 40.(saith Mr. R.) should help the weaker parts, 1 Cor. 12. 23, 26.
Ans. Its true: but there is no National Church under the New Testament to help the congregational Church, nor are Churches Christian now in Worse …ase than the Church of the Iews, for they had a High-priest and a National Worship, at which they were to meet three times in the year.
Ans. That there is an integral Church Catholick, which is The Church of the Jews was no more pe…se, & kindely, but only accidentally a national Church, then any kingdom under the N. T. is a national Church.more than National, is proved.
2. Our Brethren allow the association of many Churches for help of counsel: and the Proposition that is granted by M. H. is as true, for Church help, as is said, associated Churches could not yield, for union in peace and truth, except they made one visible body united. Natura conjugatorum hoc …vincit.
3. Visible and professed covenanting with God, makes a visible Church, Gen 17. 7. Deut. 7. 6. For thou art a holy people unto the Lord thy God; Deut. 10 15. OnelyOnly the Lord had a delight in thy fathers, (Abraham, Isaac, as a covenanted seed and Church, Gen. 12 1, 2, 3. & 17 6, 7, 8, 9.) to love them and their seed after them. Now the seed of Abraham visible covenanted, Surv. Par. 1. c. 5. p. 5. p. 59. arg. 5. The Church was visible when there was no seal, neither circumcision …o. ….by M. H. his confession was a visible Church, before they had an High-priest, or a Temple, or a National Worship in Abrahams house, Ergo, the High Priesthood and National Worship was accidental to the visible Jewish Church. If it be said, Ye…, but they were in Abrahams time a congregational Church. Its answered, Yet then Priesthood, Temple, and National Worship differenced not the Church of the Jews from the Church of the Gentiles. Our Brethrens Argument in this, is of the same stamp with that of the Murtherers of Steven, Acts 7. Steven all along in his Apologie refutes them, and …aith, the Jews were a true Church in Egypt, when they had no Temple, no Ceremonies, no National Worship, but by faith onelyonly rested upon the promises. So Calvin, Gualther, Bullinger, Brentius, Marloratus, Beza, contend, that Steven his Apologie had been impertinent, if this Calvin. Com. Act. 7. v 6. Interea commonefiunt Judaei fuisse Ecclesiam Dei (etiam Nationalem) alibi quam in terra in qua degebant, fuisse electos patres in populum peculiarem & sub fide tutela que Dei protectos, antequam staret Templum, vel instituti essent externi legis …s, haec ad generalem cautionis scopum pertinent. Gualth. in Act. 7. homil. 45. in v. 16. Ideo mortuos in Aegypto ut constet illos in …a Religione diem ob…sse quae nullis externis ceremoniis nitebatur, sed in sola fide, &c.had not been his scope.
2. They were a visible Church in Egypt multiplied above an hundred congregations, Exod. 1. 9, 11, 15. more in number than the Egyptians, and the Lords covenanted Church, Exod. 3. 6, 7, 8. & 6. 7. 8. obliged to sacrifice to God, Exod. 8. 29. and did eat the Passover, and were circumcised in Egypt, Exod. 4. 24, 25, 26 & 12. 1, 2, 3, &c. when as yet Aaron was not consecrated High-priest, and there was no Temple, nor any National Temple-worship thrice a year at that time in the world.
3. When Priesthood, Temple-National-worship thrice a year, sacrificing are removed, Iudah remained in the Babylonish captivity, the visibly covenanted people of God obliged to pray to him with their faces toward the Temple, 1 King. 8. 35. Dan. 6, 10, 11. and this is no more one National worship, than the hearing of the Word, and receiving the Seals of the N T. are one National worship to all the Protestant Churchmembers in Scotland.
4. That which is common to Gods people of the Jews, and to Egypt and Assyria, and the people of God in the Gentiles, is no distinguishing character differencing the Jewish Church, as National from the Christian Church as not National, Quae sunt communia …a non distingunnt. But to profess, say and swear by the Lord, and give him publick Church-worship, agree to Egypt and Assyria, and to Kingdoms and Nations of the New To swear a covenát agreeth to all Kingdoms coven…nted visibly with God, as well as to the Church of the Jews.Testament, as to the Jewish Nation; as Isa. 2. 2. It shall come to pass in the last dayes, (under the New Testament) v. 3. that many people shall go, and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the Mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Iacob, and he will teach us of …ù wayes, &c. So Isa. 19. 25. God shall bless thus, saying. Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hand, and Israel my inheritance. Which the seventh Angel declares to be fulfilled in the New Testament, Rev. 11. 15. The Kingdoms of this world are become (the Kingdoms) of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever. So is the same, Psal. 2. 8, 9. & 22. 27, 28, 29. & 72. 8, 9, 7. & 97. 1, 2, 3, 8. & 99. 1, 2. & 110. 1, 2, 3. Mal. 1. 11. Isa. 19. 16. & 55. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. & 35. 1, 2, 3, & 60. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. & 62, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 6, &c. Ier. 23. 6, 7. Zech 13. 8, 9. Nor will it help a whit, to say, O but the Kingdoms visibly covenanted under the New Testament, have not all one Temple, nor one National Worship in the way of the Iews. Its answered, That was accidental to the visibly covenanted Nation; for as a visibly covenanted Nation they the same way worshipped the same God in their Synagogues, and in a Church-way as a Church-Jewish, as we worship God in a Church-way in one single congregation. Temple-worship agreed to them not as a visible Church, but as such a special paedagogical visible Church.
5. The being a National Church in that sense, to wit, typically A National Church differs not in nature and essential causes from a National typical Church.National, doth not essentially difference the Church of the Jews from the Church of the Gentiles, as to the internal parts constituent of a visible Church. For
1. Peter saith, 1 Pet. 1. 2, 9. of the Gentiles, what the Lord of his people Israel, Exod 19. 5, 6. said, But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, (for he writes to visible professors then dispersed, as Beza and others, and the Text evinceth) a peculiar people, that ye may shew forth the praises (in publick Church-profession, 1 Pet. 2. 1, 2. by Hearing, Baptism, 1 Pet. 3. …1. and visible feeding of the flock by called Ministers, 1 Pet. 5. 1, 2. eschewing false Teachers, 2 Pet. 2. 1, 2, 3. &c. and receiving messengers, Sylvanus and others, sent to you to water the planted Churches, 1 Pet. 5. 12) of him who hath called you out of darkness to his marvello… light.
2. The Jews and Gentiles are made one catholick Church, the partition wall now being broken down, Ephes. 2. 12, 13, 14, 15. Isa. 6. 3. & 61. 4, 5, 9. & 62. 1, 2, 3, 4. & 54. 1, 2, 3, 4. and have communion in visible Ordinances, Isa. 66. 10, 11, 12. Zech. 14. 16, to 21. Isa. 49. 6, 7, 18, 19, 20.
3. The Churches of the Jews and Gentiles have the same Head and King in them, reigning in the same Ministery and Word, Hos. 1. 11. Eph. 1. 21. & 4. 11, 12, 13. Col. 1. 18. saved by faith, and the same grace of Christ, Acts 15. 8, 9, 10, 11. & 10. 42, 43. Heb. 11. 1, 2, 3,—1 Cor. 10. 3. They did all eat the same spiritual me…t, 4 and did all drink the same spiritual drink (for they drank of the same spiritual Rock, and the Rock was Christ.) Here our Brethren argue from the constitution and matter, visible Sain…s, as Mr. H. frequently, and the same formal cause, the Church covenant in the Church of the Jews, when it seems to make for them; and when the government makes against them, then they reject the argument from the Jewish Church.
6. What agrees to the Church of the Jews as a Religious society, to keep peace and Religion in purity, and to purge out offenders, and agreed to them in a moral, and no typical consideration, that agrees to us also. But National Assemblies and National Engagements for Religion, agreed to the Jewish Church in a moral consideration, as it cannot be shewn there was any thing typical in that Assembly at Mizp…h, Judg. 20. but to cognosce of the publick wickedness in the matter of the Levites concubine. The revenge was indeed civil, but the Assembly, for a scandal which made Religion to be evil spoken of, was a Religious Meeting, for no such folly should be done in the Israel of God. And the meeting of the whole congregation at Shilo… in their Heads was Religious, to condemn the new Altar, as was reported, set up by the two Tribes, Iosh. 22. 12, 13, &c. And the Assembly of Israel at Mount Carmel, 1 Kings 18. procured by Elijah, was to prove that Iehovah was the Lord, and for the keeping of Religion pure. And the Covenant that Ioshua made with the people, and that which Iehoiada made between the Lord and the people, that they should be the Lords people, Iosh. 24. 25. 2 Kings 11. 17. and that the people sware under Asa, 2 Chron. 15 8 9, 10, 11, 12. were morally binding Covenants, prophecied to be under the New Testament, Isa. 44, 5. & 19. 21. The Egyptians shall vow a vow to the Lord. So Zanchy. There was indeed a thing temporary, and some typicalness in the manner of the punishing the breach of it, See M. Robinson justif. of Separat. p. 145, 160, 161. who widely argues the Church of the Jews being National, having one High Priest, one Altar, &c. being now done away, is not our Rule. See pag. 162, 163, 164. Ans. We argue from the nature of the Jewish Church in gene al as National in Egypt, in the Wilderness, as Gods people in covenant as we & our seed are, before they had a Temple & an Altar, &c. yea, the synagogue worship was a sufficient Church-worship, whatever M. Robinson say, Eusebius de vita Constant. l. 3. reckons it to be an. 333. Tom…s of the Councels. Hist. Magd. cent 4. c. 9. Theodoret. l. 1. c. 30. & alibi c. 17. c. 35. Socrat. l. 1. c. 27. & 32. l. 2. c 8. & 20. Sozom. 1. c. 7. l. 2. c. 16. l. 3. c. 5. Ruffia. l. 1. c. 5. & 6, &c. l. 4. …. 6. D. … 3 Gen. Controv. concerning Councels, p. 120, 121. M. Patr. Symson, c…. 4. c. 4. Review of the Councel of T…t in Prench, translated an. …638. by Gen: …. D. Fulk Ans. to the Rhemists on N. T. Act. 15. An. 4. An. 5. p. 289, 390, 391, 392, 393. T…o: Cartwright his answer to the same Rhemists, Act. 15. An. 4, 5, 6, 7. p. 293, 294, 295, 296. Whitaker de Conciliis.Diut. 13. 15, 16. & 7. 24, 25, 26. but that ceremonial kinde of punishment did not belong to the essence of National covenants, and therefore makes not the National covenant to be typical, and not morally binding to Christians, no more than Mr. Hooker will say, that the Law of punishing capitally false Prophets seducing to Apostasie, and divers other Laws to which something typically did belong but accidentally, doth not, as touching their substance, obligeth us Christians. So were also Councels morally binding to us, and consequently Engagements and Subscriptions to them and their Act…. Nor can any say, but upon the supposition that Christ hath appointed officers for his house, but it was a moral duty, not typical (the Rule Acts 15. & 6. & 21. & 13. going before) and warranted by the Law of Nature; That the Nicone Councel about anno 327 should convene against Arrius denying Christ to be God equal with the Father, and by the Emperors authority: And that in the Councel of Constantinople about ann. 383. Macedonius denying the holy Ghost to be God, should be condemned: and Nestorius affirming two persons in Christ, ann. 434. and that Eutyches holding one Nature to be in Christ after the Incarnation, and so confounding the Humanity and Divinity together, should be condemned in the Councel of Chalcedon ann. 454. See for more of this, Authors cited in the Margin, and their judgement of Councels.
7. How shall Egypt, Isa. 19. 25. Assyria, ibid. be a covenanted Nation to God? by our Brethrens way, they must be a covenanted Nation only in parts, as members of an Independent congregation; and so none shall be visible Covenanters with God, as Isa. 19. but their visible members.
Mr. H. To covenant with God is a free act, no Prince can compel a Nation to swear a covenant National.
Ans. Then a Prince cannot compel a single man baptized, to hear the Word, nor a Minister to do his duty, to preach or feed, for these should be free acts in order to God, nor can a Judge by this compel a single man to witness the truth; for swearing should be a voluntary act of worshipping of God: but a Pr…nce and State can compel people to do a known duty of adhering to the worship of God, 1 Chron. 15. which they in circumcision undertook before to do, which duty ought in foro Dei, to be willing.
Mr. H. An oath to keep Gods commandments (saith Mr. R.) is a part of the third command, Psal. 119: 106. we are to contend for the faith, Jude …. 3. and profess God before men; that which bindes a man morally, binds a Nation. Ans. Davids …aking an oath, was upon lawful grounds, to a lawful thing: but National Churches, and National Covenanting are now abrogate.
Ans. Then a desire to preserve Religion which is called in question in the Land, and to transmit it safe to posterity, be a lawful ground, as it is, and to continue Religion be a lawful thing, and to remain the Lords people, we have these two, which by Mr. H. made Davids taking of an oath lawful: Ergo, so must our National Oath, by Mr. H. be lawful.
2. That a National Church meeting all in one place at once Our nationalcovenant is sworn by Independent Churches in single congregations apart.to worship God, is abrogate: we say, the Church of the Jews was no such Church, nor contend we for any such national Church. But if a National Church swearing a covenant to worship the Lord in sincerity, in parts, in several congregations be abrogate; then suppose all England were visible Saints, and all moulded in single Independent congregations, it were unlawful for all the members to swear their Church-covenant: why? all National Churches are abrogate, saith Mr. H. but is not here a National covenant, such as we desire granted by Mr. H.
2. We contend not for a whole Nation meeting in one place A national oath is lawful under the New Testament.to swear. But sure all the land of Iudea, and they of Ierusalem were all baptized of John, Mark 1. 5. and all Divines grant there is a religious vow and covenant in baptism. Here is such a National covenant of all the Land of Iudea as we contend for, as lawful under the New Testament.
3. Suppose the Turk came with a huge army against Britain with fire and sword, to kill old and young, except we will deny Christs Gospel, and our Baptism: Mr. H. by his way thinks it Judaisme for the Prince and Parliaments, to command all between sixty and sixteen to rise in arms, and to swear an oath to King and State: that we shall confess Christ before men, and stand by the Gospel and fight to the death, and die a Nation of Martyrs, before we yield to that Turkish Tyranny. Why? a National oath is Iudaisme: for as a man is to confess Christ before men, Mat. 10. 32. so far more a Nation when called thereunto.
2. To take a covenant should be a free Ecclesiastical act. no Prince can compel to National Oaths: Its my prayer to God Par. 4. pag. 40. See Dan. Chamier. in loc. Com. l. 6. c. 7. pag. 286. in Baptismo voveri Deo. Lombard. l. 4. dist. 38. Com mune votum, quod in baptismo faciunt omnes. Zanchius Tom 4. l. r. in 3. praecept. thes. 1. th. 2. page 635, 636. th. 4, 5. Et seq obligatio jurandi interdum oritur ex ipsa naturali lege; ut reveletur veritas & lis finiatur, & glori…icetur Deus, …. 6. See Deut. 6. 13. To fear God and swear by him are conjoyned. See Sotus. l. 8. de Justit. q. 1. art. 2. c. 4. Suarez de Relig. tom. …. de Juranient. l. 3 c. …. num. 6. pag. 420. Suarez de Religione tom. 2. tract. 6 de votis l. 1. c. 2. pag. 47…. num 6. lneptè votum numeratur inter hujusmodi legalia vota sunt antiquiora lege Mosis, ut patet in voto Iacob. Gen. 28.—& Gentiles naturali lumine voveban…, &c. Chrysost. in 1 Cor. 7. praeceptum non …abeo, &c. Hieron. Epist. 151, ad Algasiam q. 10. Votum …se p…ssionem Deo factam leg… naturae & gratiae consonam.that our Brethren in New England, be not compelled to quit Christian Religion, as we in Scotland were thralled to embrace Popery by the domin…ering power of Prelates. And shall it be Judaisme for Protestant Nations to swear the like, if the man of sin should blow the trumpet, and raise all the Catholick Romans i… Christendom, against the Lamb and his followers?
4. If it be lawful for one professor to avow Christ before men, Mat. 10. 32. Mark. 8. 38. Luke 5. 26. & 12. 8. Rev. 2. 10, 13, 15. shall not Egypt, Asyria be obliged to set up (as it were) Altars to the Lord, and speak the language of Canaan, Now that is a professed engaging to avow the Lord: now I might put Mr. H. to it, and its but an Anabaptist ground, to seek a warant for a National covenant under the New Testament; for I again desire him to give me a warrant for a National profession.
2. A National promise to be the Lords people.
3. A National confession of sins, and of leaving of the truth.
4. A National petitioning for grace to avow the truth to the end, and to transmit it pure to posterity.
5. A National confession of faith, except we argue thus, a single man does this, a David warrantably did swear, Ps. 119. 106. Ergo, a Nation may do the like.
5. The examples of the Jews Church are moral, not typical: T…e oath was not tied to Temple, Sacrifice, or the like.
6. Its prophesied there shall be swearing, and subscribing to the Lord, and that the Jews shall renew their covenant to God, I…r. 50. 4, 5. see 1 Tim. 5. 12.
7. An oath is a law-band against back sliding under the New Testament, as under the Old enjoined in the third Commandment. And there be warrants for oaths in the New Testament, Rom. 9. 1 Phil. 1. 8. 1 Thes. 2. 10. 2 Cor. 1 23. & 11. 31. Rom. 1. 9. Matth. 5. 8. It is moral, Deut. 6. 13. & 10. 20. Isa. 19. 18, 21. & 45. 23. See Par. Zanchius, &c.
Mr. H. Were the oath lawful, yet not in a private man as in Par. 4. pag. 45. Equal strength is not required in all that take an oath of a society.a Nation, yet it must suit with our strength, that which is helpful to one, because strong and able to perform, is hurtful to another.
Ans. To swear single life is unpossible, for there is no command binding me to it.
2. Will Mr. H. say a…l baptized by Iohn, Mark 1. 5. and all their Church members that swear the Church covenant have a like strength, and all engaged to be buried with Christ in Baptism, Rom. 6. 3. 1 Cor. 12. 13. Gal. 3. 27. Col. 2. 11, 12. all Asa and Iehoiadah their covenants had alike strength?
Mr. H. The ground is worse, to wit, that which ties one man, ties a Nation: a man is not morally tied to keep Gods Commandments; he may live all his life and never take a private oath, and not sin; if he swear, this is a moral command to keep his oath, his manner of swearing seems to be private, its but a free-will offering.
Ans. To lay bands of promises and oaths upon a back-sliding heart, is commanded in the third Command, and is not Judaical, It said that a National covenant is Typycal and Judaical. Mr H. never with his little finger aimed at any probation. 1. What if I say that a Nation as Israel avow the Lord to be their God was typical? then no Nation, Egypt, nor Assyria can lawfully under the New Testament avow him to be their God. National profession hath as good warrant for typicalness (if any there be) as National swearing. 2. National praying, National praysing, National flowing to hear, Isa. 2. National worshipping, Isa. 66. 20. Mat. 1. 11. Zech. 14. 17 National joyning to Christ, and conversion to him. National submitting to the Lord, reigning in his ministry, and joyning to the true Church, Rev. 11. 15. Psal. 22. 27. Isa. 60. 1, 2, 3, 4 &c. have all the like ground of typicalness with national covenanting: A vocal oath commanded mars all, saith Mr. H.Gen. 14. 22. Gen. 28. 20. Psal. 132. 2. Psal. 76. 11. Its prophesied as a moral duty of Egypt converted under the New Testament, Isa. 19. 21. They shall vow a vow to the Lord, all the Gospel purposes and resolutions spoken to the Lord in praying, in suiting grace to do duties, confessing sins are so many Gospel vows laid upon the heart, to do such duties: nor is there a formal swearing required in vows made to God. And this is sinful omission of a morally obliging duty, and morally obliging one man: so it obligeth a Nation, as affiirmative precepts do: and this smels of Anabaptism to cry down all Gospel-vows.
2. The manner of swearing to continue in the professing of faith, when temptations from the Prince, and Edicts to receive the Mass Book are no more private and arbitrary vows, then the oath of your Church covenant.
3. Its poor Divinity to say that the free-will offerings to the Tabernacle and Temple were free, that is, arbitrary, so that a man might have lived all his life, and never been guilty, though all his life he never offer a free-will offering to Tabernacle, Temple, or to the Lord, as a man may all his life never swear a National covenant, be guilty of no sin; so he may well say a man all his life may give nothing to the poor, to Hospitals, to maintain the Ministry, and Schools, and yet not be guilty, for all these are free-will offerings. Its a gross mistake, to say the free-will offerings were not commanded, as well as all sacrifices and other offerings, Exod. 35. 4, 5. Levit. 22. 21. Deut. 16. 10. they are free, not from a commanding law (I am ashamed of such weak conceits) but are free in regard of the willing heartiness of givers; and because the determinate quantity precisely fell not under a command, as in other offerings, but was referred to the holy freedom of the offerer.
Mr. H. The Rule is uneven, a particular man may engage not to drink Wine, as hurting his health and soul—a Scholar swears he will study painfully; a Plow man he shall labour diligently; shall the whole land be tyed to such …ths? yea, the contrary rule holds for the most true.
Ans. A mistaken Rule is soon made uneven; what morally binds one single man, not as a Scholar, or a Plow-man, or such a special professor, but as a Church-member, baptized, The Rule, what binds particular men as covenanted professors, binds morally the Nation. Religion directs how we are to swear by the Lord, swearing is not a worship (as praying, which was in the state of innocency) absolutely commanded, but only for truths cause to be cleared. Suarez. Tom. 2. de Relig. de jus jur. l. 3. c. 1. n. 8 pag. 420. And we see moral necessity of being the Lords people, of reformation after back-sliding, Deut. 24. 3, 12, 13. Of putting …ay Idols, of seeking the Lord God, 2 Chron. 15. 8, 12. 2 Chron. 29. 10. 11. & 30. 12, 13. when sad judgments were on, 5, 6. and because of this, to wit, defection and bondage, they made a sure Covenant, and wrote…, … …, Nehem. 9. 38. no shadow there is of a type looking to Christ or to the Church under the Gospel.circumcised, as a visible professor, as to keep the Lords Commandments, Psal. 119. 106. to be the Lords people, to continue sound in the faith, to confess Christ before men, when called to it, Matth. 10. 32. to seek the Lord God of Israel, 2 Chron. 15. 13. 2 King. 11. 17. that also morally binds the whole nation, be it Egypt or Assyria, in covenant with God, when he shall call them to lay the band of an oath upon themselves, as being tempted by higher powers to deny the truth, and embrace popery, as was our case in Scotland; and this is our rule. Mr. H. deviseth an uneven rule, and would father it upon me. A Plow man as a special professor swears he shall painfully till the earth: Erg…, all in covenant with God may swear, be they Kings, Nobles, Barons, Burgesses, and all the land may swear they shall desert all callings, and only till the earth. The like is to be thought of the other oath, which often is the drunkards oath, he shall never drink Wine, and with a spoon he sips till he be drunk: Ergo, all the Nation may so swear; but I know no such rule. It shall be Mr. H. or any mans, not mine.
Mr. H. The ends of general Reformation may be attained by Par. 4. p. 42.the Magistrate, commanding all the Churches in their several assemblies to attend the mind of Christ, to humble themselves and fast, and if Churches be corrupt, they may be compelled by the civil power to attend the rules of Christ.
Ans. Its too laxily spoken, he speaks not one word of the Christian Magistrate or the magistrate godly and sound in saith, nor of the rule the Scripture, but only of the Civil Magistrate, the Civil Power. What if he be a Heathen? what if he be a Papist, a Socinian?
2. That the ends of reformation may be attained by the Civil The power that Mr. H. gives to the civil Magistrates in commanding the Churches is undue.Power only, who can believe? For Mr. H. speaks not one word of the Concurrence of spiritual power and jurisdiction. Will not Erastians approve this, and say Church-discipline is needless? Mr. H. sayes, the end of Reformation may be attained by the Civil Magistrates commanding, &c.
3. Mr. H. tells us often that Church-duties should be willing free acts, pag. 40. hearing, fasting, praying, are acted by Ecclesiastical policy, Gods people are free and wi…ing; but here they may be compelled by the Civil Power to act these duties.
M…. H. the Church-power is above the Synod, because the Mr. H. par. 4. page 54.Churches sent the members.
Ans. It only follows, that the Churches are above the Commissioners, as they send them, but in actu Synodico & Pastoraliter How the churches are above Synods, how not.imperandi, as the Synod pastorally teach, as Mr. Cotton saith, and lay on burdens, Act. 15. the Synod is above them. How the male Church owe obedince to the dogmatick sentence of Pastors, we heard before.
Mr. H. If the Synod erre, Churches have power to call another Mr. H. Survey. par. 3. c. 3. page 41, 42.Synod, and pass sentence against them.
Ans. Nothing hence follows, but what I yield, the Churches in their way are above, and worthier then Synods that erre.
Mr. H. A Synod may enjoyn a man to believe contradictions, two Synods in two divers Provinces may conclude contradictory Par. 4. c. 3. p. 54things: a man goes to another Province to dwell, he believes a contrary conclusion to what he believed before.
Ans. In some things of meer order in one country the Sermon Mr. H. will have Synods to determine contradictionsbegins at eight or nine hours, in another Province not while ten: but these are not contradictory faiths.
2. There is no solidity, but emptiness here, an erring Synod could not jure determine contrary to the decrees of the Apostles and Elders, Acts. 15. Christ hath given no power to Synod-Assembly, or Churches to conclude lyes, in dogmatick points; the contradicent of a true and sound Decree, deduced soundly from Scripture is a lye, and came not from the Synod. So Mr. Hooker may condemn Ministers, Churches, Preachers, Doctors, Assemblies, all who give counsel and advice, as no Ordinances of God, for the men that are Ministers, Churches, &c. may sinfully contradict the truth, and lye: but the Ordinance lyes not.
Mr. H. In all Synods, but an O…umenical, its lawful to make an appeal, and therefore to refuse.
Ans. In no Synod at all following the rule of Christ, is it lawful to appeal; but that is ever true which our Saviour saith, Of appeals, they prove not that Synods may be refused.he that despiseth you, despiseth me. Its a slandering of us, as if we taught any appeals, but from partial Judges, and opressive sentences.
2. In general Councels erring, as they are not infallible, we may appeal to another not erring General Councel, and to the collective Catholick Church.