Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 2 · Chapter 6
CHAP. VI.
Some seeming inconsistencies mistaken by Mr. Hooker, are cleared.
MR. H. Pastors as they stand in relation to the Congregation, and in reference (saith Mr. R.) to the Classis, have not two, Png. 122.but one office, page 329; 333. and yet they are elect to the office of a Pastor in the Congregation, l. 1. & l. 2. pag. 201. but not elect to the office of a Pastor in reference to the Classis, l. 2. 345. which is very strange, since there is but one and the same office.
Ans. Is it strange that Mr. Cotton and the dissenting Brethren teach; Elders in reference to the Synod, and Elders in reference How Pastors are Pastors in reference to the Congregation, and how to the Synod, and associated Elders.to the single Congregation at Antioch, and at Ierusalem have but one and the same office of Elders; for they are not twice Elders, nor two sort of Officers, by reason of these two relations. If they be, say it out, and yet these were elect Pastors in order to their Congregations, and chosen to employ their labours constantly there onelyonly, as married Husbands to their Wives. So Mr. H. par. 1. c. 7. pag. 81, 82, 83. and yet neither Mr. H. nor Mr. Cotton can say they were elect to the office of Pastors in reference to the Synod, though they exercise pastoral acts in reference to the Synod (Cotton Keys. c. 5. p. 25. Mr. H. par. 3.) and the associated Churches. Is not this strange? For the eighth Argument repeated from Survey, c. 8. Arg. 1. pag. 99. is answered.
2. I …esire the Reader also to consider my words, pag. 244, 245. The Congregations acknowledging and consenting to the classical Presbytery, do tacitly chuse and consent to the common charge and care that every Pastor hath, as he is a member of that common Court, which d…th concern them all. and therefore when Mr. R. saith, that Pastors are not elect to the office of a Pastor, in reference to the Classis; the sense is in every page known to be, that Pastors are not chosen to be fixed and constant feeders of all the Congregations of the Classis, because they feed and rule in things of common concernment.
Mr. H. The power of a Congregation, and of a Presbytery, and their acts (saith Mr. R.) differ not essentially. But Elders (saith Par. 1. c. 9. pag. 122.Mr. H.) do, and must preach, watch and feed, by vertue of the essence of their office, therefore they have acts formally d…fferent.
Ans. That Elders do act as Elders, and put forth specifick acts of Elders in the Congregation, and in the Presbytery; Ergo, Their acts in one differ in nature from the acts in the other: it no more follows then this, Peter laughs to day, ergo it shall be rain to morrow. That Elders must constantly and fixedly teach and feed the Churches, whom they govern synodically, is denied It is, and must be the same office of a Pastor in reference to the congregation, and in reference to the Presbytery & Synods superior.by Mr. Cotton: and that they must put forth all the acts of the essence of the office, and that constantly and fixedly to all the Churches congregational, presbyterial, synodical, to which they are referred as pastors in their several relations respectively is most false.
Mr. H. If it be one and the same office of a Pastor to the Classis, and to a Congregation, as Mr. R. saith, l. 2. 329. then the office relates one and the same way to both the classical and congregational Church; then if the congregational Church be their proper flock, so must the classical Church be, quae sunt idem inter se, sunt idem uni tertio.
Ans. the first consequence is naught; If it be the same office, then the office relates the same way to both the classical and congregational Church. A Pastor hath the same office to the whole Congregation, and to one single man, to whom he preaches; for he is not two Pastors, one to the whole, and another to the part. An Elder is the same officer to Antioch, and to the Synod at Ierusalem, Act. 15. for he is not two officers in reference to these two. But it follows not that the office relates the same way to one man, and to all the Congregation; nor is he referred to the Synod as the fixed and constant feeder of the Synod, but he is referred to a Congregation of Antioch, as their fixed and constant Pastor; it is wild Logick, that one and the same office must relate, one and the same way, to one and to ten hund…d, to the adequate, and to the inadequate correlate; and these that are one in one Faith, one Baptism, one Lord, one and the same Seals, it will not follow that they are one every way, but in illo uno tertio. For the whole Congregations on earth are one in all the essentials of a Church, one Faith, one Lord, but it follows not that all the Congregations on earth are but one single Congregation. The thumb is referred to the hand, as a member, and also to the whole body as a member; yet it is referred to the hand as a nearest and proper member; but to the whole body in a more common relation, as the toe is referred to the body, yet is not the toe a part of the hand as the thumb is, but both are parts of the body.
Mr. H. The combination of Churches gives no office, and so no Pag. 114.power to the Elders of many Churches, for they were Elders before the combination.
Ans. That they were Elders before the combination, and made and ordained by the laying on of the hands of the people, which is your homogeneous Church, is an unwritten Tradition.
2. The tacit consent of Sister-Churches even before the formal combination is enough on their part, who neighbour with them to make them Elders.
M. H. Would you see a Pastor that hath the formal essence of a Pag. 123. The classical Elder hath nothing to do with Prelacy.Pastor, and yet never did, nor is bound to preach? it is the classical Elder.
2. The Pastor may preach in his own Congregation, and Minister the Sacraments; but … Presbytery keeps the key of jurisdiction.
3. The classical Elder is not bound to preach to them, over whom he hath jurisdiction. And this is the Bishop.
Ans. A bishop is rather a Pastor to Pastors, then to the Churches: Envy cannot say this of the Elders of the Presbytery.
2. The formal essence of a Pastor is not in being fixed to one Congregation, as a Husband to a Wife; so that it is adultery to act as a Pastor either in a Synod, or in another Congregation, as Mr. H. teacheth; for so Elders in a Synod, Apostles and Evangelists should not have the formal essence of Pastors.
3. It is false that he is not bound to preach and minister the seals to another Congregation, or members thereof, if he be called thereunto. But the Bishop is a Byshop ex officio, is bound to preach to none, but a Sermon to the Clergy once a year, and not that he may be a Bishop and never preach.
3. The Pastor of a Congregation as a Pastor hath power of jurisdiction in Collegio, and hath no majority of jurisdiction and ordination at all, as the Bishop hath.
4. The Pastor of a Congregation, yea, all the officers thereof, poor men have no jurisdiction without the people, yea, the people without them have majority of jurisdiction to make and unmake all the officers, which is the formal essence of a prelate by Mr. H. his way; the prelate is the virtual Church: tell the Church, i. e. tell one single man, the Prelate, who need neither do by vote, or consent of other Elders or people, as the prelatical way teacheth. Our Elders are neither over the saith of the people, nor can they dispence censures contrary to the mind of the Godly. So Mr. H. hath not found the prelate with us: but the Male, Church which is above all their officers, and all others is the prelatical Church.
But what if the Elders meet and confer this pow…r of sole Iurisdiction upon one man, and make him more then a Moderator?
Ans. What if the firmament fall? if they make a Bishop, they make a Bishop. I cannot stand; but see more of the prelates their majority, pride, dignity, priviledges in the Authors cited, Niceph. l. 8. c. 11. Sozom. l. 1. c. 14 Tripart. Hist. l. 1 c. 19. Cypr. Epist. 80. Bernar. Epist. 80. Euseb. l. 10. c. 3. Hieronymus in Episto. ad Titum, & ad Euagrium Epist. 85. ad Nepotianum de vita Clericorum. Socrates l. 7. c. 35. Cyprian. l. 1. Ep. 4 &. l. 4. Epist. 2. Concil. Antiochen. c. 14. Bernard. in Canti. Ser: 77. & Epist. 82. Brightm. in Apol. 3. See Archiep. Spalaten. de Rep. Eccles. l. 3. c. 1. Edwar. Didoclav. in altar. Damasceno. p. 24, 25, 26, 27. & fere per totum. Beza De gradibus Ministr. c. 1. &c. August. Epist. 19. Whitaker Cont. 4. q. 1. c. 3. sect. 30. Waldenses aut Aeneas Silvius Histor. Bohem. c. 35. Thom. Waldens. Doct. fidei, Tom. 1. l. 2. c. 60. Tom c. 7. Reinold. Colloq. cum Ha…t.in nature and essence distinct from our Elders, or from Synodical Elders, against whom the argument fights with the like strength as against us. What famous Independents have refuted prelacy, I or a few can read.
Mr. H. What rule of Christ condemneth the Churches of error, for giving the power of jurisdiction to one man, but will condemn the i…vesting many Elders with jurisdiction over many Churches? let Mr. R. give me one place of Scripture, or one sound Reason for it; that one may be a Pastor to a people, by whom he was never chosen, &c.
Ans. The places of Scripture that tell us the Elders of Ierusalem were over so many as their constant officers, who could not meet in one Congregation, declare they had jurisdiction over that Church, otherwise Elders of that Church they could not be: but they could not all of them be chosen their Elders constantly teaching in all the Congregations; for that was unpossible.
And our grounds for a Presbyterian Church, and for Presbyterian Elders are these.
1. To appoint Elders foreign, in every City. Tit. 1. 5. Is to appoint a Colledge, or Church-officers in every Church, the Town, or City of Samaria receiving the Gospel.
1. As many, even from the greatest to the least, as were bewitched by Magus, Act. 8. 6. 9.
2. Both men and women were baptized, v. 12. and so were made a Church.
3. The number being above the strength of Philip, and so more then one Congregation, they stood in need of Peter and Iohn, v. 14. to help in the work.
2. The first samplar Church of Ierusalem is one Church in Government, A presbyterial Church was at Ierusalem, Rome, Thessalonica, Ephesus, &c.for their Elders are called the Elders of the Church of Ierusalem, Act. 2. 43, 44, 47. & 8. 1, 2. & 5. 11. & 11. 30. But that this Church was not all one Congregation, is clear.
1. From the multitude thereof, Act. 2. 43. three thousand.
2. Act. 4. 4. Five thousand. And then foreign, multitudes of men, and women, Act. 3. 14. and yet they were multiplied, foreign, exceedingly; and a great company of the Priests (hard mettal to be wrought upon) was obedient to the faith, Act 6. 7.
2. They meet in sundry places from house to house, Act. 2. Synod at Westminster.46. & 5. 42. for the celebration of the Lords Supper, breaking of bread; nor is it like they durst bring into the Temple the new seal of the Supper. The dissenting Brethren refused that.
3. The multitude of twelve preaching Apostles for some years, and seven Deacons for the poor, declare, that in
1. Such a plentiful harvest,
2. In such a necessity of gathering souls.
3. Of preaching in season, and out of season; that one Apostle could not preach to one Congregation, the other eleven hearing, that were twelve reapers all in one ridge, in one single Congregation, where eleven that time must be silent.
4. The Apostle spoke with divers tongues, that these of all nations understood, Act. 2. 1, 2, 3. Therefore in divers meetings; nor is it clear, that all the three thousand heard Peter: the Text saith (v. 37.) they that heard were pricked, Act. 2. 11. the rest of the Apostles also spoke, as Mr. H. thinketh.
5. What agreeth to the Apostles as Elders, agreeth to all Elders, The Apostles act as an ordinary Presbytery, Act. 6.but the Apostles Act. 6. as Elders, not as Apostles (which is a Presbytery of twelve Elders over divers Congregations) chose Deacons, lay hands on them, and praying ordain them, v. 6. and use the joynt concurrence of the people for the chusing of them, as a standing example to the Churches. Now what they do as Apostles either in writing Scripture, working miracles, speaking with tongues, &c. they neither seek nor need the help or occurrence of others, either people, or any else. There is no ground to say that all these thousands meet in Solomons porch, Act. 5. 12. at one act of divine worship Congregational, or that they were all joyning in one and the same prayer, or that they returned (to wit, Peter, and Iohn) to their own, that is, all the thousands, but to the Apostles, who spoke the word with boldness, Act. 4. 23, 31. nor doth the word foreign, multitude, note every individual person, man and woman, Mat. 8. 37. The whole multitude of the Gadarens besought Christ to depart: Festus, Act. 25. 24. All the multitude hath deal… with me about Paul. Luke 1. 10. The whole multitude were praying without. See the Reverend Assembly at Westminster.
They meet foreign, in every house (it notes a Church-meeting, Act. 5. 42. & 16. 15. & 20 7, 8, 10. Rom. 16. 5. 1 Cor. 16. 19. Phil. 1. 2.) but that all these thousands interessed in ordinances and government (as the Brethren say) meet for the same word, breaking of bread, government and censures, in the same house, needs no refutation, it refutes it self.
3. The Church of Rome, though one body, had many members, The Church of Rome was a Presbyterial Church.Rom. 12. and could not be one single Congregation.
1. In it were many Churches lesser, as the house of Aristobulus, Rom. 16. 0. Of Narcissus, v. 11. & 14. Philol…gus, Ne…ea, Iul…us, and all the Saints w…th them, v. 15. the Church at the house of Aquila and Priscilla: many teachers and fellow-helpers, ve…s. 3, 9, 12.
4. The Church of Thessalonica could not be one single Congregation; The Church of Th…ssalonica, of Antioch, Presbyterian churches.their faith being heard in all Achaia and all places, 1 Thes. 1. 6, 7, 8. of them Paul gloried in all the Churches, v. 16. Paul at one Sermon converted of them foreign, a great mul titude, and of devout women, Act. 17. 4. not a few: also what must be the growth of that Church, foreign, Act. 15. 33. when they tarried at Antioch, Steph. some time, Beza not a Steph. Cum aliquid temporis ib… consumpsissent. B…z…. Aliquandiu, tempore non parvo. Lorin. In Loc. non solum P… trus, sed Pau…us aliique Apoli & Apostolici viri versati sunt. Marloratus, Hoc quidam exponunt quod sacer coetus in eorum d…iro cogeretur. Pareus Com. in Rom. 16. Observemus ve…o Ecclesiae nomen paucis fide…ous Christi nomine congregatis convenire—ubi duo vel tres—nemo tamen inde collig… Ecclesiam dom…sticam esse infallibilem. B…za in Rom. 16. 5. Neque mirum est in tam ampla civitate distinct…s fuisse fidelium coetus. Calv. ib. Horum itaque domum Ecclesi…m dixit, non solum quia Christi fidem exceperunt, sed quia hospitio credentes admitterent.little time. Paul and Barnabas continued there foreign, with many other Teachers; and when God layeth the dayly care of all the Churches upon one man, 2 Cor 11. 28. and upon other eminent members of the same body, that the Lord sent so many eminent Teachers, and Prophets to one Congregation only at Antioch, at Corinth, who can believe it?
5. The Church of Eph…sus had divers Congregations, if not more then one, 1 Cor. 16. 19. The Churches of Asia salu… you, Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with th… Chur…h at their house. So Marlorat, so Par…us and B…za on Rom. 16. See the English Divines on the place, and Diodati. There were divers small assemblies in one and the self same City. See 1 Cor. 16. 19. Col. 4. 15. So were Church-assemblies ordinary for praying in the house of Mary, Act. 12. 12. Joh. 20. 19, 26. in an upper chamber, at preaching, praying and chusing of an Apostle, Act. 1. 13. praying and baptizing in the house of Iustus, Act. 18. 7, 8 preaching in the Scho…l of Tyrannus, Act. 19 9. preaching. c…lebrating of the Lords supper in a house of Troas Act. 20. 8, 20. & 5. 42. & 10. 24. The Assembly of Divines at Westminster proveth that there were more congregations then one at Ephesus. 2. That there were many Elders over them as one flock, Act 20. 17, &c. 3. That these congregations were one Church, Rev. 2. To which adde,
1. The multitude of converts Luke saith, Act. 19. 10, 17. three times foreign, all the Iewes and Greeks in Asia and at Ephesus heard the Gospel, a great door there was opened, Sorcerers converted, Act. 19. and Paul giveth direction to Timothy, how he should govern in the house of God. 1 Tim. 3. 15, 16. at Ephesus, 1 Tim. 1. 3. upon whom he should lay hands, 1 Tim. 5. 22. 1 Tim. 3. 1, 2. 1 Tim. 6. 4. to what faithful men able to teach others he should commit the Ministry, 2 Tim. 2. 2. Had it been a single congregation, where one might teach at once only, what needed such watching over false Teachers, speaking perverse things, and gathering Disciples and Churches out of one single Church, Act 20. 27, 28, 29. and trying of false Apostles, Rev. 2. 1, 2, 3. who were not sent to one single congregation, and there hath been need to take heed to such as speak lies, sow unprofitable questions, 1 Tim. 4. 1, 2, 3, 6, 11, 12. 2 Tim. 6. 3, 4. 2 Tim. 2. 14, 15, 16. and so there must have been many preaching Elders there.
6. At Corinth there have been many instructers, 1 Cor. 4. 16. many Doctors and prophets, 1 Cor. 14. 24, 31, 32.
7. Though there be many Churches in Galatia, Gal. 1. 2. yet must they be one lump, who have power to judge and censure false teachers, Gal. 5. 9. and there is a Church restoring made by spiritual officers, Gal 6. 1. otherwise they might have replied, We Galatians have no power in one body to cut off a troubler who infecteth the whole lump, every single congregation is to see to that, and the troubler is without our Churches, save to one only single Independent power, say our Brethren.
8. Its not possible that the Churches can send their common That sund…y Churches send messengers prove a meeting of the Elders of those Churches, for all men & women who are the Churches of the redeemed ones could not meet in one place. M. H. Survey, par. 1. c. 3. p. 40.Messengers whom they choose, 2 Cor. 8. 19, 23. except the Churches convene, men, women and children, or then convent in Elders of many Churches, or the Apostles must have gone from Church to Church to beg suffrages and votes: which sort of Election is never heard of in any Writer sacred or profan….
As to the first, who can believe that men and women and children capable to hear and be baptized also (which is the onelyonly Church of Believers owned by our Brethren) the externally covenanted and redeemed did send the Apostles to Ierusalem? or received the Apostles, and did welcome them? or salute the Saints, as Act. 16 3, 4. Rom. 16. 16 Act. 15. 22, 27, 28? therefore need for it, the second must be said. That the Churches in their Heads, Rulers, Officers, sent them, which is a very Presbyterial Church.
9. If divers Churches meet for laying on burthens by power of the Keys, as M. Cot. saith, & exercising acts of Church-government, then there is a Presbyterial Church governing without and above a single congregation, by pastors neither chosen to be fixed and constant teachers, nor that can possibly teach many congregations. But the former Mr. Cotton and our Brethren teach.
Obj. This is no Church-power (for a Synod is not a Church) b…cause it is no Church-jurisdiction.
Ans. 1. The Antecedent is false. 2. The Consequence is There is a Church-power in a Synod without and above a single congregation.naught. A number of private Christians wanting all official Authority, so might lay on Synodical burthens binding materially, if this be no Church-power.
2. They are called the Decrees of Apostles and Elders, Act. 16. 4. written and concluded. Act. 21. 25. Saith Iames, Act. 15. 22. It seemed good to the Apostles and Elders, with the whole Church, to send chosen men. Now whether Church note the Apostles, Elders and Brethren, or the multitude of believers onelyonly, or the Church of Ierusalem, made up of both, the Decrees must come from Church-power, governing, teaching, uniting and removing a Schism. Though it were no power of jurisdiction, yet here is a Church-power above a Church, except it be said that so many pastors of the same or of divers Churches, or so many private Christians commissionated from no Churches, made the Synod, Act. 15. and Synodically said, It seemed good to the holy Ghost, and to us. But this shall no more import the promised presence of Christ to such as are convened in his Name, Mat. 18. 19. 20. & 28. 19, 20, 21. Ioh. 2. 21. than if so many private Christians had been convened, and so may such of a sister-Church remove all Schisms, and a Synod shall be nothing at all.
10. If Christ build the power of binding, loosing, gaining upon brotherhood, Mat. 18. If thy brother offend, &c. then as far as brotherhood goes, if I possibly can converse with him, and may be offended or edified by him, so far must the power of jurisdiction be extended; because these two, The gaining of a brother, 2. The safety of the Church by edifying of others, and removing of scandals, are intended by Christ. Mat. 18. but brotherhood is without the bounds of the congregation whereof I am a member; Rom. 16 14. Salute the brethren that are with them; 1 Cor. 16. 20. All the breth…en salute you. These were brethren of other congregations.
2. If there be no Church-tye upon me to gain any but those Mat. 18. cannot warrant me to gain no trespassing brethren in a Church way, but onelyonly the brethren of that congregation of which I am a member.of mine own congregation: then 1. There may be communion of Saints onelyonly within the same congregation, and no communion of Churches: what Scripture is for this?
3. It must be the will of Christ that we bestow no Church-rebukes upon other Churches; which must be contrary
1. To Christian love, to save others.
2. Contrary to zeal for the Lords glory.
3. Spreading the Gospel.
4. Desire to remove Scandals.
5. To be made all things to all men, to save some.
6. To serve one another in love.
7. To promote the common interest of the whole catholick Body of Christ.
8. Its against our praying for the Church, and that all Israel may be saved.Narration of the practise of the Churches of N. E. p. 16, 17, 18.
9. Against the Doctrine of our Brethren, who say, That Churches ought to rebuke, exhort, warn, comfort Churches.
10. Its against the communion of Spiritual priviledges of one Head and Saviour, one Covenant, one God, one Faith, &c. Its not enough to say, We are the same Body entitativè, for that Way of the Churches of Ch…m. N. E. c. 6. sect. 1, 2, 3. Cotton Keyes.entitative Body without this congregation, is either visible or invisible; if visible, then members of divers congregations are of the same visible body: and to say that other congregations are not as visible as that whereof I am a member, to me and others about, is to deny twice three to be six; for one Christ, one Faith, one Profession, the same seals, are as visible in a Church within few paces to me, as in the Church whereof I am a member: to say it is invisible, is to speak against sense.