Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 1 · Chapter 7
CHAP. VII.
M. Hookers reason why he passeth in silence the arguments of his own book of discipline of the Churches of New England, for the constitution of a visible Church, and defendeth them not: a scanning of these arguments.
MAster Hooker part. 1. ch. 2. pag. 19. passeth in silence the arguments of the way of the Churches of New England, Way of the Churches of New England chap. 3. sect. 3. pag. 56, 17, 58. printed London. ann. 1645.except a gentle hint he hath at the first, but he omitteth the nerves thereof, onelyonly he bringeth four arguments of his own, in my apprehension, inferior, not a little, to the arguments of learned M. Cotton, it was wisdome so to do; onelyonly in the place pag. 15. he giveth us a short list of his visible Saints, we are (saith he) from rationall charity, to say and hope, and so are bound to conceive they are Saints, (converts and internally justified) so Iudas, Magus, Ananias, &c. (though hidden hypocrites) were such; and therefore our Saviour proceedeth with such, not as God who knoweth the heart, but in a Church way as these who Iudge M. H. his conjecture of visible Saints.the tree by the fruit; the Church cannot judge of bid things, nor censure them.
Answ. 1. Then the Saints, faithfull, brethren, temples of the holy Ghost, at Rome, Ephesus must be proven to be visible Saints from the Scripture, from such a visible Saintship, as our Saviour and the Apostles saw in these goodly ungodly Saints, Iudas, Magus, &c. for if these titles conclude that they were internally converted, and chosen to grace and glory, &c. as Ephs. 1. 3. 1 Thess. 5. 10. 2 Thess. 13. 14. 1 Cor. 3. 16. as they do, then must all and every visible member of these Churches be visible elects, and predestinate to glory, which if our brethren say of all the members of all these visible Churches, suppose Magus and Iudas had been among them, it is easie for any to prove the contrary. 2. but if so be that these titles prove they were all internally converted, and that our visible Church must be such, or else they are falsly constituted, then how shall Demas, Magus, find roome in the visible Church, as true members since they were not such? if it be said that the argument which proveth that they weremore, may well prove the lesse, and that they had all the visible Saintship that Magus, Iudas had, we shall grant that; but then you must stand by this argument.
Such as were the members of the Churches of Corinth, Rome, Ephesus, Thessalonica, &c. by these places cited by the discipline-book of new England, chap. 3. sect. 3. pag. 56. 57. 1 Cor. 12. 27. Ephs. 2. 22. 1 Cor. 3. 16, 17. 2 Cor. 11. 2. 1 Cor. 1. 2. Galat. 1. 2. Math. 16. 16. to 19. such ought the members of our Church visible to be, or then they are constituted of false matter.The argument, such as were the members of the Church of Rome, Corinth, such should the members of our Church visible be, scanned and foundfaulty. M H contradicteth the book of discipline of new England. Hookers survey par. 1. c. 2. The places cited by our brethren for visible membership prove that they were read converts and predestinate to glory who are right members visible.
But the members of these Churches by these places were really and internally converted and justified. Ergo our Churches visible must also consist of these that are really and internally converted and justified, or then they are constituted of false matter; but the conclusion is false and absurd, for so Christ and the Apostles erred even proceeding in a Church way in admitting Iudas, Magus, to be members; for sure they were not internally and really converted and justified: and yet M H. maketh them true members, and his visible Saints, it was wisdome therefore to M. H. to bury these arguments, and to contradict his own book of discipline, which page 57 saith, that Christ taxeth the pastors, by whose connivencei the man wanting the wedling garment came in, friend how camest thou hither? M. H. saith, nay they were not taxed, that man conveyed it so cunningly that onelyonly the master of the feast pe …ived it, others did not discover it, page 29. but all dependeth on the making good the assumption, that these places prove that they were inwardly and really converted, which I make good by these reasons, 1. the Holy Ghost expresly saith, they were the habitation of God through the spirit. temples of the holy Ghost, espoused to Christ as a chast virgin; ergo they were really such: to say that Paul speaketh according to the judgement of charity only, and in a Church way, is to beg the question, there is not a word of any such judgement of charity in the Scripture and our brethren have no law to adde to the Scripture, to help their own cause. 2. If you adhere to this argument, you must say with M. H. that Christ hoped and was bound to conceive by the fruits of Iudas his life, that Iudas was a Saint, and might have some seeds of some spirituall, Christ dealt not with Iudas in a Church-way, it is a dream void of the word.work of God in his soul, and yet Christ saith, have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you hath a devill? and this he knew from the beginning, Iohn 13. 11, 18. because Iesus not as God, but in a Church-way dealt with Iudas and such: I remit it to any man, if Christ failed against charity, except he believed Iudas to be a convert, before he betrayed his hypocrisie; what warrant in the Scripture for this? 3. What ground that the Apostles in charity believed and said that Demas, Magus, were converts, temples of the holy Ghost, chosen to life, as the Ephesians? 1. 3. and Thessalonians 2 Th…s. 2. 13. or then they had sinned in admitting them to the visible Church, and baptizing them. 4. Whereas he sayeth the Church judgeth not of things hid; whether the Churches of New England do not judge and heavily censure (though they will not give it that name) all the baptized in their Church, whom they exclude from Church-membership and the Lords supper, all their life, as if they were Pagans, because they have not so much charity as to believe them to be visible converts; judge reader. But (say they) this will not prove that they were internally and really converted, because Paul saith so of them; to which I say, then upon the same account must we expone these places Ephes. 2. 4. God rich in mercy hath loved us, and when we (Paul and converted Jewes and Gentiles) were dead in sinnes hath quickened us together in Christ, in the judgement of charity and in a Church way onelyonly. 6. and hath raised us up together, and hath made us fit together in heavenly places in a Church-way. verse 10 we are his workmanship created unto good works, and we who verse 12. were sometimes without Christ, strangers to the Common-wealth of Israel, 13. are now made neare in the blood of Christ: and verse 18. we who were strangers, have accesse, by Christ, through one spirit unto the Father, onelyonly in a Church-way, by politick guidance of our head Christ: and the like must be said of all the reall internall work of the spirit upon the hearts of all the Saints at Ephesus, Colosse, Corinth, Thessalonica, &c. so they were by this reason light in the Lord quickened, had Christ dwelling in them by faith, were sealed, translated from death to life, &c. in a Church way, and from none of these places can we conclude that they were really and internally converted, for all these places and reall works of grace must agree to Iudas, Magus, and to all such visible Saints, because all Churches visible rightly constitute must be made up, by this argument, of such visible Saints, else they are false in the matter, and not according to the pattern of Apostolick Churches.
3. The assumption is made out also thus, as the Apostle calleth them the body of Christ, the habitation of God, temples of the holy ghost, so also he blesseth God and rendreth thanks to him, that had chosen to life the Ephesians, blessed them with all spirituall blessings in Christ, bestowed on them adoption, redemption, forgiyenesse This visible Saintship destroves the faith, hope, joy, thanksgiving of Saints.of sinnes, the inheritance of glory, Ephes. 2. 13, 4. &c. ordained the Thessalonians not to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Iesus Christ, 1 Thess. 5. 9. 4. had chosen them to salvation through Sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth, 2 Thess. 2. 13. and upon this buildeth their comfort and faith, I Thes. 54. 9, 10. 11. so Coloss. 1. 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. now what joy, comfort, faith, thanksgiving can have place, if these places be not understood of such reall internall graces, as election, conversion, &c. as Iudas and Magus neither have nor can have? otherwayes all the hypocrites, as Magus and Iudas, have a like lively consolation with all the chosen of God; and Paul must blesse God, because he had chosen, called, justified, &c. such as Magus and Iudas. 4. I wonder the way of the Churches should chap. 3. Sect. 3. 1 Cor. 3. 16. the place much mistaken.cite 1 Cor. 3. 16. for visible Saintship which dependeth on the judgement of charity, for the place is evidently of reall converts, know ye not, that ye are the temple of God, and that the spirir of God dwelleth in you? is this I pray you, the knowledge of charity, which is fallible, and may mistake? nay this, and the like places 2 Cor. 13. 5. and the 1 Iohn 2. 3. 1 Iohn 3. 14. know ye Concili. Teldent. sess. 6. c. 6. Bellarmi. Gregori. de v….not that Christ dwelleth in you &c. by this we know that we know him, &c. are brought by our Divines to prove against Papists, that we may be infallibly perswaded that we are in the state of grace, and know our selves to be temples of the Holy Ghost, not by the fallible and erring judgement of charity; which we never extend, but to other then our selves, but by an infallible certainty, though not of faith, yet of supernaturall sence and divine perswasion by which we know infallibly our selves to be in Christ, 2. as to that argument, such should our Churches be in their members constituent, as the Church of Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, were, when Paul writ to them, and after they were now constituted and grown, it is most false. It is just as if Aristotle would say and write to some of his disciples that had studied some years Our brethren argue from a grown up Church, to an unplanted Church; this is a high tall-tree ergo it was an high tall-tree, when it was first planted.under him, you are excellently skilled in the knowledge of the first matter, of motion and time; and another should inferre, ergo there be no Academies on earth rightly constituted, where the Scholars are not excellently skilled in the knowledge of the first matter, of motion, of t…me, before they be admitted members of the Academie… now the argument should be thus;
Such as were the Churches of Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, &c. as to their members constituent, before they were admitted to Church membership, such should our visible Churches be according to their members constituent before the members be admitted to Church membership; true, but the Churches of Rome, Corinth, Ephesus, &c. as to their members constituent, were before they were admitted to Church membership, visible converts in the judgement of charity to the Apostles, and planters, it is most false and can never be proven.
And to argue from grown and planted Churches, after Paul had begotten the Corinthians as a father, 1 Cor. 4. 15. to prove that our Churches should be such in their constitution, is to say, such is a tall-tree now, ergo also before it was sowen it was not a seed, but a tall-tree: so the adversaries would not be content we should argue thus, such as was the Church of Sardis in its constitution, after it is now falling, such should ours be in its members constituent, before they be admitted members of the visible Church: but the Church of Sardis, for the most part, consisted of such members as had a name they lived, and were dead, and had visibly defiled their garments, a few onelyonly remaining visible converts, as verse 1. compared with verse 4. ergo our Churches should be such, as to the members constituent. Such arguing is as good as that of New Englands, and yet Christ had a golden candlestick in Sardis, and walked among them, and held them as stars in his right hand, Rev. 1. 20. Now the conclusion should be against them, and the chief basis of all is, that the keyes are given to such, Mat. 16. 16. to 19. as are blessed and enlightned, as believing Peter was, who was not blessed for the profession that Christ was the Son of the living God; for Iudas was that way blessed who held out but a verball profession.