Survey of the Survey of that Sum of Church Discipline by Hooker, Book 1 · Chapter 17
CHAP. XVII.
Whether the visible Church, as visible, can bear these styles of the Body of Christ, of the Redeemed of God, the Spouse of Christ, &c.
Mr. H. saith, These things may well be given to the visible Par. 1. pag. 40.Church.
Those over whom Officers are set, to feed them by Doctrine and Discipline, must needs be the visible Church: But these are the Church, Act. 20. 28. Feed the flock, not of the Elect onelyonly, but of the whole visible Church; Take heed to the whole flock of God, else if they were set over the Elect onelyonly, they might reply, Lord, we cannot search into thy secrets, who are the Elect and invisible Saints, onelyonly to feed them: where as the current and common sense of the Scripture, is, taking Redeemed and Sanctified as visible, though not really such, the stream of the Text runs pleasantly, Feed all visibly redeemed. Elect and Reprobate: So they be redeemed in the judgement of Charity.
Ans. 1. The Church visible is taken two wayes. 1. In the latitude, The Church is two ways visible.as comprehending all Professors, sound, as Peter, or rotten, as Magus; all which have a sort of right to the Seals, but divers wayes, as is said.
2. More restricted, as a Church so and so visible, as the soundest part of real believers, comprehending in Corinth onelyonly such as are really justified, sanctified, &c. In the latter …ense, the Church visible and professing is one in the matter, all one with the Church invisible, and soundly and sincerely professing, and Peter is both a real believer, and visible and soundly professing believer. In the former sense, Paul writing to Corinth, to Ephesus, 1 Cor 1. Eph. 1. 1. Rom. 1. 7. to the Romans, calleth all the Church visible there justified, or not justified, the Church, to wit, the Church visible. In the latter sense onelyonly the so and so visible professors, sanctified, justified, are the onelyonly really, soundly professing visible Church, and the whole is named from the sounder part. In the latter sense, Christ is head and Husband How Christ is the Head of the visible Church.of the visible Church, consisting of onelyonly real, sound, visible Professors, and that not onelyonly by the influence of politick guidance, but also by the influence of saving grace. But of this visible Church Mr. H. moves not the question, and therefore his Arguments speed the worse.The place Act. 20. 28 Feed the flack, &c. is answered by M. H. the same way that the Arminians answer to it.
2. The Argument of the same strain is formed by the Arminians, so, As many as are the really redeemed Church (say the Arminians) and, As many as are the Church of God redeemed in the judgement of Charity (saith Mr. H.) the Elders were to feed. But the Elders were to feed the whole flock, Elect and Reprobate, real believers and hypocrites. But the Proposition is denied, and how either the Arminians or Mr. H. prove the Proposition, Collo. Hagienses in confor. Thes. 2. p. 183. ad Acts 20. 28. Si hic per Eccle siam Christi Redemp…am soli Electi sunt intelligendi, Presbyteris Ephesiis ergo soli electi suerin… in Ecclesia commendati; sed hoc est absurdū, quia 1. Ecclesia Eph… siorum, cujus cura illis mandatur, erat ecclesia visibilis, in qud etiam sunt qui non credunt. 2. Presbyteri non poterant Electos noesse; Ergo, hic non intelliguntur soli Electi. See the answer of Amesius in Coron. art. 2. de Redemptione, pag. 145. As Arminians say, the Church, Acts 20. is the visible Church of the really Redeemed Elect and Reprobate: So that Church (saith Mr. H. is the really Redeemed Elect and Reprobate, in the judgement of Paul, and the really believing Church, Rev. 2. 4, 5. It is false, that as many as were bought with the blood of Christ in the judgement of charity, as were to be fed with Word, Seals and Censures.we see not: For Redemption to be bought with the blood of God; yea, to be chosen to life before the foundation of the world, which are proper to the invisible Church onelyonly, are attributed to the visible Church of Ephesus, Eph. 1. 4. Was it Pauls minde that thanks should be given to God, because God hath chosen us all, and every one of the visible Church (here is Universal Predestination) of Ephesus before the foundation of the world to be really holy (for of that holiness he speaks) because from eternity God had in the judgement of charity chosen to life and holiness such as Magus and Iudas, and the grievous Wolves in that Church? So must Paul say, 2 Thess. 2. 13. We are bound to give thanks to God for you, all whom we feed, all to whom we write, real converts or hypocrites, that God hath, in the judgement of charity, chosen you all salvation through sanctification of the Spirit, and bilief in the truth.
2. The Proposition is false, That as many as in the judgement of charity were bought with the blood of God, as were to be fed with Doctrine and Discipline, and so with Excommunication; Then were they to esteem all the grievous Wolves that spared not the flock, but preached perverse things, Acts 20. 28, 29. and all that had in such a manner fallen from their first love, and first works, yea all the Apostates in the judgement of charity to be bought with the blood of God, and eternally chosen to life, and saved: for the Officers were to feed all these with Exhortations, Threatnings, Censures. Now the latter is unsound.
But 3. They were all recommended to the care of Pastors, as dear bought. True: but not as if all were dear bought, the Text saith not that. Mr. H. no doubt, sinned with the Arminians, in adding that to the Text; for a father departing may recommend his family of children and servants to a Steward, because (saith the father) they are dear to me; it will not follow that they are all dear to him as children.
4. Feed the Redeemed flock, not as known to you to be Redeemed or Predestinated to life, but as professors among whom are my ransomed ones.M. H. his interpretation of the bought Church, Act. 20. to be all & every one of that Church to be bought, redeemed and sanctified in the judgement of charity must also make the world, Joh. 1. 29. the whole world of Jews and Gentiles, 1 Joh. 2. 1, 2. to be in the judgment of charity the redeemed & sanctified world. How the visible Church is Christs body.
5. The Text runs in its stream most muddily, not pleasantly; if the world, and the whole world, Ioh. 1. 29. & 3. 16. 1 Ioh. 2. 1, 2. and the All, that Christ died for, be the Church of converts in charities judgement, behold, Mr. H. turns the world, all the world, all the world for whom Christ died, before they were born, and had being, into visible Saints; and when the Lord saith, Ephraim is his dear son, Jer. 31. and Israel a holy priesthood, a chosen generation, the currant and pleasant sense must be, All and every one in the ten Tribes, and all Israel are the Lords dear children, and Priests sanctified to offer themselves an holy living sacrifice to God, in the judgement each one of another, though there be to their knowledge many thousand visible Idolaters, Murtherers, &c. that are detestable to God, not dear to God, as every where the Scripture teacheth.
Mr. H. p. 40. The visible Church is called The Body of Christ, 1 Cor. 12. 27. 28.
Ans. The visible Church in the sense of Mr. H. as including Magus, Iudas, as such, is not Christs body. 2. Nothing is proved, except it be made out, that all and every one in Corinth were lively Members under the Head Christ, in the judgement of charity, otherwise it is a sinful addition to the Text.
Mr. H. A Church may be visibly in Covenant, which hath not an infallible assistance, may erre in fundamentals, fall away, and not endure as the dayes of heaven, and so are his first and fifth arguments answered.
Ans. It is, I consess, soon done, if well.
Ans. It is true, if men entertain such things as they call truths, when they are but lies of Arminians, it will be easie to If a Church Congregational, the onelyonly visible Church may fall away, as M. H. granteth, then is not such a Church visible the first and principal subject of perseverance, and of the like priviledges of special note in the Mediator, as M. H. saith.wipe away all with a dry Negoconclusionem. My first argument to prove that the invisible, and not the visible single Congregation, is the principal, prime and onelyonly proper subject of all the priviledges of special note given in the Mediator Christ, is Par. 1. pag. 244, 245. because that is such a subject of all these priviledges, to which onelyonly and principally the Promises belong, that they are a seed enduring as the dayes of heaven, Psa. 89. and can no more cease to be in Gods Covenant favour, than the Ordinances of heaven can cease to be, Jer. 31. 35, 36. then the Mountains can depart, Isa. 54. 10, &c. But the visible Church of a Congregation is not such, &c. Judge Reader of the answer.
The fifth Argument, Because the invisible Church of the Elect is such as cannot erre in fundamentals, cannot fall from the Rock, and not the visible Church of the Congregation, whereof seven may be a Church, and six of them such materials as Magus; nor can such a Congregation bear as the first, onelyonly, and prime subject, these styles (say I, pag. 250.) that are proper onelyonly to the Elect, Redeemed, and really sanctified Church, the styles of Christs Sister, Love, Dove, Spouse, Mystical Body of Christ.
Mr. H. answers by yielding the Assumption, A Church may The single cō gregation may fall away, Ergo it cannot b… either the subject or the first subject of a new heart, perseverance in grace, &c.be visibly in Covenant, may erre in fundamentals, may fall away. And this is Mr. R. first and fifth Arguments. Hence if perseverance and never falling away, be a special priviledge given in the Mediator Christ, and it agree not to the Congregational, the onelyonly visible Church, and if it agree not to all visible Congregations, then is not the visible Church the onelyonly principal subject of such priviledges; since the world was, no Logick can say that a property can be denied of its first and onelyonly subject, That is a man, and yet is not apt to laugh.
2. To be visibly in Covenant, is not a priviledge of special note, that is, a saving priviledge, such as Perseverance, to have the anointing, and a new heart: Of which saving priviledges I spake all along, pag. 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, &c. for to be visibly in Covenant, agrees to Magus, and to all rotten Members; but these saving priviledges of perseverance agree not to Mr. H. his visible Church, which may, and doth fall away, saith Mr. H. Judge then, if these two Arguments be wiped away with a wet finger, as saith Mr. Hooker.
Mr. H. p. 40, 41. A Church may be visibly red…emed by the blood of God, be called the Body of Christ, the Sons and Daughters of God, and yet not be really and inwardly such, which is his second Argument. The third is answered already.
Ans. This is with a hop and a skip to take away Arguments. 1. Mr. H. should have done so much as repea…ed the Argument. But to be really redeemed, to be the Body of Christ, to be really, to be, I say, in veritate rei, the Sons and Daughters of God, and not to be called so onelyonly (a generation of Vipers call themselves, Matth. 3. the holy seed) are priviledges of special note in the Mediator Christ, as I spake pag. 244. and these priviledges agree not to the visible and nominal Church, of which Magus is a Citizen, as to the principal, prime and onelyonly subject, as Mr. H. yieldeth; and so yieldeth the Argument.
2. A Church may be both visibly the Redeemed of God, and called, and be really the Body of Christ, and invisibly, be also the Redeemed of God, by a figure, as touching the sound and real visible Saints among them, but that destroys Mr. H. his cause, who will have all and every one in the judgement of charity redeemed, even so many as are fed with Word and Censures.
3. Mr. H. should have applied his answer to the Arguments, but he saw it would not frame. I have done it. Let the second thoughts of some help here.M. H. must expound all the precious Promises of the Lords giving the engraven Law in the heart, of Christs bearing our sins on the tree, with the like, according to the judgement of charity. Yea, and the Lord doth not, by this interpretation, really commend his Church, but onelyonly in the judgement of charity; as Cant. 2. 14. Thy voice (in prayer) is sweet, in the judgement of charity; and Cant. 4. 7. Thou art all fair, my love, in the judgement of charity; and v. 9, 10, 11, 12. must bear the like sense.
For Mr. H. must apply his answers to the cited places: so Ier. 31. 33. I will put my law in their inward parts, according to the judgement of charity; and Ier. 32. I will put my fear in their hearts, according to the judgement of charity. And when the Lord saith, I was a husband to Israel, that is, in the judgement of charity. Isa. 53. He was stricken for the transgression of my people, that is, visible Saints, and for Magus, for my confederate people, in the judgement of charity. Ah! …ee not men dare to adde their after-birth inventions to the truth of God.
Therefore Mr. H. addeth, pag. 40 They who hold that a visible Church is redeemed externally, cannot say by any good inference, that Christ died for all such in Gods intention, or that all such are chosen to glory, or that God intendeth to save all such.
Ars. This is said, not proved. If Christ die for the whole If Christ die for all the world in the judgement of charity, he must intend in the same judgment to die for them, & must in the same judgement c…e them to glory.world in the judgement of charity, he must intend and decree in the same judgement of charity to save them by his death, else he is conceived to die for them upon no intention at all. I judge Christs dying for us essentially includes his intention to save, to deliver from the present evil world, Gal. 1. 4. If therefore this charitable judgement of Mr. H believed Christ died for all the Members of the Church of Ephesus (suppose Magus to be a baptized Member) he must in the same judgement believe that God intended to save Magus: yea, and Mr. H. must believe in charity, by his death he intends to save all and every one in the visible Church, all the earth over, and so did choose to glorifie all the visible Saints, and consequently all nations; Isa. 2. 1, 2. all Aegypt, all Assyria, Isa. 19. 25. all the Gentiles, Isa. 60. 1, 2, 3, &c. all the Kingdoms of the world, Rev. 11. 15. for they are all the visible Kingdoms and Churches of Christ; and charity shall forbid to believe, that there be one reprobate in the visible Churches, and shall necessitate Mr. H. to believe that God intends salvation, and so chose to salvation every man and woman of them. But I shall not undertake to reconcile our Brethrens charity and their faith, when the Lord shall fulfil the Prophesies, Isa. 2. & 19, &c. And what reason is there, I pray you, to say, People are visibly redeemed, but not Redemption how it is not properly visible.visibly chosen to glory? for the act of redeeming is not Christs visibly dying on the Cross, for that Redemption material was visibly to no generations before that crucifying of Christ, or to us; but it is the laying down of the ransom of that noble life for such a certain number of Elect, not one moe, not one fewer than are written in the Lambs Book of Life (I am of that opinion, I hope, with our Brethren) and this is as much hid and invisible to man, until their godly walk make their redemption in its effects to be visible, as their eternal Election to glory; therefore I much wonder of Mr. Lockyers asserting from Acts 15. (but I hope my Reverend Brother Mr. Iames Wood hath by this silenced him: for we look for onelyonly silence from him, except some other lewd brotherly help) that the proper and allowed matter of a visible Church now in the dayes of the Gospel, is persons truly converted, such as God who knoweth Little Stone, pag. 7.the hearts of all men can bear witness of, as indeed sealed by his holy Spirit; I say, This is the matter that we ought now to take to raise again the Tabernacle of David, and none other, no not in a whole Church, as for that, so far as very spiritual men can judge. Its a dreadful addition to the Word.