Plea for Pauls Presbytery in Scotland, Chapter 18
CHAP. XVIII.
Certaine Quaeres anent independencie of Congregations.
Quaere 1. IF the independencie of Congregations stand, whether or no is a Democracie, and the actuall government of the Church in the peoples hands?
I answer affirmatively, seeing calling, ordination, censuring, depriving, and judiciall excommunication of Church-guides are in their hand, I see not what they want, and wherein Morellius erred.
2. Quaere. Seeing hence it followeth that single beleevers are to pray publikely, and exhort publikely, and authoritatively convince gainsayers at the ordination and deprivation of Pastors, if they may not also publikely preach and administer the Sacrament?
I answer: If you give to single beleevers one pastorall Act, you may with the like weight of reason give to them all.
3. Whether or no is a ministery necessary in a visible Church?
I answer: seeing all these eminent acts of the Pastorall charge by an ordinary power may be performed by single beleevers, I cannot see any necessity of a Ministery.
4. Whether or no then is every mysticall Church of beleevers, because it is such, a ministeriall Church, having the keyes both in use and power?
I answer: The former doctrine standing it is.
5. If every one borne of God be not by that birth borne also a Key-bearer to open and shut Heaven?
I answer, he is.
6. If hence a Senate of Elders who laid on hands at ordination of Ministers, 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Acts 6. 6. be not then quite out of the Church?
I answer, in Churches independent it is quite gone.
7. If then all beleevers as well as the Apostles, and Paul, Timothy and Titus are not to lay hands on Pastors?
Answer, no doubt they are, but precept or practise therfore in the Apostolike Church I see none.
8. If the doctrine of refusing Baptisme to Infants, whose nearest parents are not, one of them, at least, beleevers, doth not inferre, that such a Church, where they are baptized is a false Church in the matter, and so in its constitution false? Hence I leave it to be answered by authors of independencie, if they should not separate from such a Church?
9. Seeing we judge Papists cruell in excluding from glory unbaptized Infants, when election and reprobation hath place in Infants not borne, Rom. 9. v. 11. If we can judge Infants borne of nearest parents unbeleevers, as the children of Pagans & Turks without the Covenant; and if the sins of one unbeleeving Father, where many foregoing generations have been lovers of God, and keepers of his Commandements, doth exclude the Infants from the Covenant made with these beleeving forefathers?
Answ. We are to judge them in no Covenant with God by the former doctrine. Hence we require that places of Scripture where God is said to shew mercy on a wicked race of people: Yea, whose nearest parents were most wicked rejectors of Gods Covenant, and that for the Covenant made with Abraham, as Joshuah, 5. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Ezech. 20. v. 8, 9, 10. v. 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. Psal. 106. 6, 7, 8, 9. and v. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, &c. v. 44, 45, 46. may be considered.
10. If children laden with iniquity, and the seed of evilldoers, Isa. 1. 4. doth beget in the visible Church a generation which is no more holy with externall and federall holinesse, th…n Indians and …artarians who never heard of Christ: And seeing such a generation hath by the former grounds no right to the meanes of salvation, we aske with what faith we can keep any Church-communion with such, yea how the Gospell can be preached to them.
11. Whether or no we are to keep some Church-communion with an excommunicate person, who is to be rebuked as a brother, 2 Thes. 3. 15. and so is to be a hearer of the word, and for whose good we use the medicine of excommunication, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord, 1 Cor. 5. 4. We aske if (the doctrine of Independencie standing) we are not also totally to separate from an excommunicate person in the very externall Church-communion of hearing the word, seeing ten excommunicated persons joyned in Covenant for hearing of the word, are no Church, no Body, no Spouse of Christ. We see not how we are not by the former grounds totally to separate from them.
12. If we may rebuke a particular Church, and if she remaine obstinate, and will not heare, why may we not proceed acording to Christs order, Mat. 18 & tell the Church?
Answ. By the former grounds we are to stand at single rebuking, and proceed no farther.
13. Suppose the independent Congregation consist of ten Elders and an hundred beleevers: If the ten Elders abide sound in the faith, and the hundred beleevers erre in fundamentall points of faith: In that case we aske, 1. If Christ have appointed no pastorall or ministeriall act of discipline to reclaime these hundred who erre from the faith.
I answer, none at all which may, authoritatively reclaime them, for they are the supreame independent Church. 2. Because it cannot be denyed but Pastors and Doctors of the s…id Eldership may preach against their errours, and shoot Heaven upon the pertinacious defendors of these p…rnicio…s errors, and that by the power of the keyes, Mat. 16. 19. Jo…. 20. 23. yet have they no power of discipline to shut Heaven upon them, who thus erre from the faith, nor to bind their sins on earth, because the Eldership is not the Church, neither hath power of j…isdiction over the hundred erring beleevers. How can a power of binding and loosing by way of preaching, and that both in Gods Court and the Churches be in these who have no power of discipline to bind and loose.
14. Seeing the Sister-Churches of Colosse and Laodic…a, Col. 4. 16. and of Corinth, Macedonia, Achaia, Galathia, 2 Cor. 8. 1, 2, 3, 18, 19, 23, 24. chap. 9. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. are consociated together in a visible body, in externall acts of Gods worship, as to heare one and the same word of God, Col. 4. 16. and to doc Church-businesse and works of mercy toward the poore by their delegates and commissioners: We aske if consociated Churches tyed together in a visible Church-communion of acts of divine worship be not with as good reason a visible politick body of Christ, as many beleevers consociated in a Church-communion, if acts of divine worship doth make a particular Congre-gation. 2. If the former Church hath not the power of the keyes upon the grounds of a visible Church-communion among themselves, as a Congregation hath the power of the keyes upon these same grounds? 3. If these consociated Churches be not a visible Body, Spouse, and covenanted people with God in Christ, as well as a little Congregation of sixe or ten beleevers? 4. If such a greater body may not meet in their overseers, and exercise discipline, and governe the particular Congregations, as a Congregation doth meet in their principall members, and governe themselves, and all the members of the particular Congregation 5. We aske a reason, why in a Congregation of three hundred beleevers partaking one Word and Sacrament, a hundred of the three separated from the other two hundred cannot meet and exercise the power of the keyes by themselves alone, because one worship, and one government doth equally concerne them all, and by that same reason it should not be affirmed of ten Congregations, all partaking one Word and Sacraments upon occasions which neighbourly consociation doth furnish, that one cannot meet to exercise discipline in matters which in reason equally concerneth all the ten Congregations without subordination to the joynt authority of all the ten? For if a hundred of three hundred cannot exercise discipline there alone, without the other two, reason would inforce one or two congregations of ten consociated congregations cannot meet, without subordination to the whole ten, wherof one or two congregations are part; if ten be owners of one ship, six cannot meet and dispose or sell the ship, or repaire her cordadge, or any decayed part, without the power of the other foure, whom it concerneth; so if ten congregations be visible owners and copartners of one Gospell one worship, one externall profession, and one communion with a brother, or separation from a scandalous person, we aske a reason how one congregation can meet and dispose of that common worship, government, and haunting familiarly with, or separating from a member of the Church, without subordination to all the ten congregations, whom it doth concerne?
15. If the Eldership of one congregation make one visible representative Church ruling and governing the absents, we aske why the Eldership of six congregations may not judicially meet and rule six congregations also?
16. If the power of the keyes be given to beleevers, as beleevers, because Christ is their King, Priest and Prophet, and all things are theirs, Paul, Apollo, Cephas, the world?
1. It is asked, if none have the power of the keyes, but beleevers, and if all acts pastorall of preaching, binding and loosing, excommunicating performed by unbeleeving Ministers and Professours be not hence made null, as performed à non hab…ntibus potestatem, as if Turkes and Pagans had performed these? We thinke they must be null.
2. We thinke children baptized by unbeleeving Ministers not baptized.
3. An unbeleeving pastor not essentially a pastor.
4. If, because Christ is given to the elect, and all things are theirs, and so all ministeriall power of the keyes, it is questioned, if amongst these all things given to the beleevers, we may not include the Magistrates sword, the Kings power, the masters power over the servant, the Captains power over the souldier, so that by that same reason there be no Kings, no Judges, no Masters, no Captains, save only beleevers, we see not how this followes not, as well as that the power of the keyes, and all things are given to beleevers, because Christ is given to them.
5. We aske if the power of the keyes in binding and retaining sinnes be not given to unbeleevers, or rather for them as Gods intended end, to declare the glory of his Justice in the vessels of wrath, as Rom. 9. 17. Esa. 8. 14. 2 Cor. 2. 16. 2 Cor. 10. 6, 7, 8.
17. Quere. If the distinction of a true Church. 2. A false Church, and 3. no Church can stand? And if the distinction of true baptisme, 2. false baptisme, but valid and such as is not to be repeated, 3. and no baptisme can stand?
I answer, the doctrine of independency standing, we see not how a Church wanting the right matter and consisting of members who are not professed beleevers having saving faith, can be any thing but a non-Church, and such as is a non-Spouse, a non-body of Christ, and a non-covenanted people, and so wanting all power of the keyes.
Qu…re. If the baptisme of that congregation can be valid baptisme, not to be repeated, I leave to the consideration of the learned. Yea, if the Minister be an unbeleever by the former grounds, it can be no baptisme. But some …ay it is the baptisme of the Church, and so valid, suppose the Minister be an unbeliever, and so want power.
I answer, the whole congregation may be unbelievers, as is the Minister, and so yet the baptisme comming from the Church, cometh from these who want power, and cannot be valid.
2. Suppose the congregation be a company of believers, yet I see not how by their authority they can make the baptizing of a Pastor wanting all power to be valid, for then if the Church should baptize by a Turke or a Woman, that baptisme should be valid, which no man can say.
18. What sort of an Assembly was the meeting, Act. 15. if it was a lawfull Synod of sundry particular Churches, or an extraordinary meeting, the practice whereof doth not oblige us? If it was a meere Apostolick meeting obliging as Apostolick, and if it oblige us as Apostolick, how commeth it that the multitude spake, and gave their mind in that which obligeth us as Canonick Scripture? For that the multitude spake our brethren collect from v. 12. and how is it that Elders and brethren determine in penning Canonick Scripture? Except the first be said, there be many doubts here, of which the way of independency cannot cleare us?
Q. 19. How commeth it that the Lords Apostles, who were to goe through all the Nations of the world to preach the Gospell, doe so often assemble together to consult about the common affairs of the Church and discipline, as Act. 1. Act. 2. Act. 4. Act. 6. 4. Act. 8. 14. Act. 11. 1. Act. 13. 1, 2, 3. Act. 15. Act. 21. 18. Act. 20. Paul and the Elders of Ephesus, v. 17, 18. 1 Tim. 4. 14. it is questioned seeing these assemblies of many pastors from sundry Churches (because the Scriptures saith they were occasioned by the present necessity of ordering things belonging to all the particular Churches) if they were only temporary, extraordinary and Apostolick meetings, which oblige not us to the like practise, howbeit there be the like cause of meetings in the Church now, as errours and corrupt doctrine in many particular Churches, as were Act. 15. the murmurings betwixt Churches, as Act. 6. a suspitious practise of a pastor, which seemeth to be against Gods law, as Peters going in to the uncircumcised, Act. 11.
20. Whither or not Paul did not some things as an Apostle, as writing of Canonick Scripture, working of miracles. 2. And some things as a Christian, as Phil. 3. 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. 3. And some things as an ordinary Elder and Pastor of the Church delivering some persons to Satan, 1 Cor. 5. 4. and whither or no is Pauls rod and authority, and his power of excommunicating, whereof he speaketh, 1 Cor. 4. 21. 1 Cor. 5. 4. 2 Cor. 10. 8. common to all believers? Our brethren must say, it is common to all believers.
21. If the power of the keyes be given to all believers, a question is, 1. If Pastors have no other power of the keyes, but that same that believers have, seeing the ground of Christs gift is one and the same, to wit, alike interest in Christ, and if alike power of preaching, baptizing, excommunicating be in Paul, and all believers? 2. Whither or no the calling of Christ and his Church doth not superadde and conf…rre to him who is made a pastour some farther power of the keyes, then h… had before he was cloathed with any such cal…ing, seeing, to rebuke, exhort and comfort one another, are d…ties of the law of nat…e, and would oblige all, suppose Christ had given the … of the keyes to none at all, wee see not, but our brethren must deny that the calling of the Church giveth any other power of the keyes then the believer had before he was called. 3. If there be not a greater power of preaching, baptizing and binding and loosing in the believers then in pastors, seeing believers give the power to pastours, and may take it away againe.
22. If six believers be excommunicated, and that justly, clave non errante, yet remaining believers, it is questioned, if they keepe not still the power of the keys? they must keepe that power, and yet are no members of Christs visible body.
23. I desire a place may be produced in all the old or new Testament, where a ministeriall or governing Church is taken for a company of only believers? This our brethren teach.
24. If all authoritative Assemblies, for renewing a covenant with God, restoring of the worship of God, be 1. A part of the paedagogy of the law of Moses, and removed by Christ? 2. If these Assemblies in the Churches of Christ now be a species of Judaisme? This we deny.
25. If believers exercising the most eminent acts of ordaining pastors, publick censuring, depriving and excommunicating pastors, publick convincing gain-sayers, be not formally hence made by our brethren, over-seers, watch-men for the soules of Pastors and guides, and so Pastors of Pastors? We answer affirmatively, they are by the former grounds.
26. Let the godly and learned consider, if the Patrons of independent Churches are not to give obedience to Decrees and Canons of Synods, for the necessity of the matter, as a brotherly counsell from Gods Word obligeth in conscience the brother to whom the counsell and advise is given; howbeit the tye be not authoritative by the power of the keyes, and if in that they are not to conforme.