The Due Right of Presbyteries, Chapter 5
Chap. 5. Sect. 3.
The way of Church judging in New England.
VVE doe not (saith the Author) carry matters either by an over-ruling power of the presbytery, nor by the consent of Manuscript. The way of the Churches of Christ in New England.the major part of the Church, but by the generall and joynt consent of all the members of the Church, and we are of one accord as the Church of Christ should be, Act. 2. If any disassent out of ignorance, we labour to bring him to our mind, by sound information. 2. If by pride bee disassent, the libertie of his voyce is taken from him. If, 3. the matter be difficill, we seeke advice of sister Churches.
Answ. Unitie is much to be desired in the Church with veritie, but your way we understand not.
Nor doe we in our Synods carry matters by the major and maniest voices, because they are maniest, nor because they are the the voice of men, but because the thing concluded is agreeable to the word of God: but what if the Church be divided, and the people (upon whose voyces principally the conclusion of the Church dependeth) goe against both the truth and the Elders?
They answer, These are miserable mistakes, either to thinke that the people or Elders must needs disassent, or that except they all consent, In the Answ. 10 32. quest. 9. 15.there can be no rule?
I answer, it is a miserable necessitie, through the corruption of our nature, not a mistake; for Simon Magus, and fortie like to him, in a Church consisting of threescore, must dissent from twentie, whose hearts are streight in the truth: You have no refuge here, but let the maniest carry the matter to a mischiefe, and the other twentie must separate, and make a new Church presently.
Againe say I, what if the Church differ? They answer, That ought not to bee, nor will it bee, if the Church will lay aside corrupt Answ. to the 15. quest.judgement and affections, and if they attend the rule, and depend upon Christ, considering the promises made to the Church, Jer. 32. 39. Zech. 3. 9. Matth. 1. 10. But if such a thing fall out, as not often it doth, if the Elders and major part consent, and one disassent; it is either of corrupt affection, and pride, and so he Ioseth his voyce, or of weaknesse, and then he is to submit his judgement to the Church.
Answ. But to beginne at your last, if one out of weaknesse disassent, he is to submit his judgement to the Church. But I say, what if forty out of weaknesse disassent from twenty, may not that whole Church as well submit to a Synod, as Act. 15. as one must submit his judgement to a Church? the conscience of one should no more be fettered, then the consciences of a whole Church.
3. I grant the maniest should have Scripture, but what if they say the Scripture, yea and the Apostles are with them, when there is no such thing, as the case was Act. 15. 20. the wrong side alleadged Scripture and the Apostles commandement, when the Apostles gave no such commandement, should you not take Gods remedy to appeale to a Synod, as the Apostolike Church doth? Act. 15. 6.
They answer, in our Churches hitherto, the major part, yea all mind one thing, as Rom. 15. 16. 1 Cor. 1. 10. Act. 1. 14. I answer, 1. that is because they are in Church-government all one, and a conspiracy in error, is but seeming unity. But 2. I say, good men as Paul and Barnabas will differ. But 3. what if all be wrong of three parts, as 1 Cor. 1. 12. Some said, I am of Paul, some, I am of Apollo, some, I am of Christ; all the three were wrong, in that case, doth not a Synod by the word of God determine the matter best? certainly, though Synods may erre, yet are they of themselves Christs lawfull way to preserve veritie and charity and unity. But our brethren answer us, divisions ought not to be, and they will not but all agree in the truth, if the Church will lay aside corrupt judgement, and depend on Christ, Answ. to quest. 15.considering the promises made to the Church, Jer. 32. Ephes. 3. 9. Matth. 18 20. Let me answer, there is much more charity in this answer, then verity. 1. They ought not to disassent from truth: true, but what then? the remedy is not given except you returne to a Synod; the division, Act. 15. ought not to be; the house should not be fired: true, but the question is how shall water be had to quench it, for many things are, which ought not to be. 2. (Neither will divisions be,) that is false, 1 Cor. 1. 12. 3. As heresies must be, so scandals must be, our author saith (they will not be; they will not be) (say the brethren) if the Church lay aside corrupt judgement, and affection, and attend upon the rule, and depend on Christ. I answer. There is but vanity, and no solidity (I crave pardon) in this answer, it is the vaine answer of Arminius in the case of the Saints perseverance. The regenerate (say they) cannot fall away if they be not inlaking to Gods grace, and if they in holy feare take heed to their wayes, so saith aAr…in. in declar sen. p. 57Arminius in his Declaration; and in his bArmin. ant…perkins. pag. 224. qua…nd…u am…r Det in ipso…u…n cord…bus vigebit, imped…en. ui ne …ccedant … D…o.answer to Perkins: so also cRemonst…an. confess. c. 18. Sect. 6. 7.say the Arminians in their confession, and dEpiscopius disp. 27. ch. 9.Episcopius. But what is this, but regenerate persons shall persevere, upon condition that they shall persevere? for not to be inlaking to the grace of God, is to cooperate to the grace of God, or with the grace of God, and to cooperate with the grace of God is very perseverance it selfe; for saith the eSocinus de just…. …l. 10. quod si a… hac obedientia deficiamus, &c.the wicked Socinus, and fSmalcius … 7 in Ioan. fol. 78.Smalcius, and so say our brethren, all shall agree in the truth, if they lay aside corrupt judgement. And what is that, if they lay aside corrupt judgement? that is, if they agree with the truth, and assent to the Word of God. But so it is, that the best regenerate, even Barnabas, a man full of the holy Ghost, Act. 11. doth not lay aside corrupt judgement. But our brethren proveth they will law aside corrupt judgement; but how? you alleadge the Papists abused Scriptures, Ier. 32. God promiseth to put his Spirit and feare in his Church, that they shall not depart from the Lord. True (say I) they shall not depart from God, providing they lay aside corrupt judgement, as you teach us. But doe you not teach us by your answer to elude these pregnant places, which unanswerably prove the necessity of the perseverance of the regenerated? But 2. what though God promise to put his feare in the heart of the regenerate? this promise is not made to the visible Church conveened in a Synod, as it is such, nor will it prove that a Synod shall all agree in the truth, & that the whole Church shall lay aside corrupt judgement, except you serve your selves with these and the like places, as Papists, and by name as Bellarmine, G…etserus, Snarez, Bucanus, Stapleton, Gregorius de Valentia doe serve themselves with them, and the like, to prove that Councels are in fallible. What is said in the fourth Section anent the power of the people in Church-govern… is already examined, onelyonly in the closure thereof, they seeme to give something peculiar to the Elders, which the people have not, which I discusse in the insuing question.
Quest. VIII. What peculiar auhority is in the Eldership, for the which they are over the people, in the Lord, according to the doctrine of our brethren?
We hold that Christ hath given a superiority to Pastors and Overseers in his House, whereby they are, by office, government, and power of the keyes, above the people. But 1. this authority is limited, and conditionall, not absolute, as if they may doe what they please. 2. It is a power ministeriall, not a Dominion; for as meere Servants and Ambassadours of Christ, they doe but declare the will and commandement of the King of Kings. 3. When this authority is not exercised by the precise rule and prescript of the Law of God, it is not valid, but null, and of no force. 4. They are so above the people, as 1. they are their Servants, for Christs sake, 2 Cor. 4. 5. yea we are their servants servants: not as if the people had a dominion over the Pastors, or as if they had their authority from the people, they have it immediately from Christ, but because all their service is for the good, and the salvation of the people. 5. They have so superiority, as they are subject to the Prophets to be judged, and censured by the Church representative of Pastors, Doctors and Elders.
It will be found that our brethren give no authority or superiority to the Eldership above the people. In their answers to the 32. questions. We acknowledge (say they) a Presbytery, Answ to 32. quest. q. 15.whose worke it is, to teach and rule, and whom the people ought to obey, and condemne a meere popular government, such as our writers condemne in Morellius.
Answ. So say our brethren in their Doctrine, we acknowledge that the people, and gifted men not in office, should teach, and all the faithfull is the governing Church, to which Christ hath committed the keyes, and power of ordination, and highest Church censures, even excmmunication, and that the Elders should obey the Church of beleevers. Ergo, in teaching and …uling you acknowledge no Presbytery. 2. Seeing you ordaine the Elders to be ordained by the imposition of the peoples hands, to be elected, called, censured, excommunicated, exauthorited, shew us why the people are not the Rulers, foreign, and the Elders ruled. 3. The key of knowledge is a chiefe part of the keyes, and these keyes by which sinnes are remitted and retained, and men bound or loosed on earth and heaven: and seeing Morellius, Anabaptists, and your selves teach that these keyes were given to the whole Church of beleevers, how doe you thinke that people are not in teaching, Overseers as properly as the Elders, and that your government is meerely popular, as Morellius taught? to say nothing that when you deny your government to be meerely popular, you doe not deny, but it is popular; for a government meerely popular admitteth of publike men to rule for the people, and we never read of a government in Athens, Lacedemonia, or any where, in the which all the people did actually judge, rule, and command, and so was meerely popular.
But the Word of God giveth a reall superiority to the Pastors and Church guides over the people in the Lord, as Jer. 1. 10. So I have set thee this day over the Nations, and over the Kingdomes, to roote out, and to pull downe, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build and to plant, here is a reall authority given to Jeremiah, onelyonly by his office of his prophecying, without any power of the seales or sacrificing, or judging, or governing, which was the part of the Tribe of Levi, of which Tribe Jeremiah was not, Matth. 10. v. 40. He who receiveth you, receiveth me, Luke 10. 16. He that heareth you, heareth me, he that despiseth you, despiseth me, and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me, John 13. 20. 2 Cor. 10. 8. For though I should boast something of the authority which the Lord hath given us for edisication, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed, 1 Cor. 4. 1. Let a man so account of us, as of the Ministers of Christ, and of the Stewards of the mysteries of God, John 20. 23. Whose soever sinnes yee remit, they are remitted, and whose sinnes yee retaine, they are retained, 2 Cor. 5. 18. And he hath given to us the word of reconciliation, 20. Now then wee are Ambassadours for Christ, 1 Cor. 12. 28. And God hath set some in the Church, first Apostles, secondly Prophets, &c. Eph. 4. 11. And he gave some Apostles, &c. 1 Thes. 5. 12. And we beseech you brethren to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you, Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit your selves, for they watch for your soules, as they that must give an account, Acts 20. 28. Take heed therefore unto your selves, and to all the flocke over which the Lord hath made you Overseers, to feed the Church of God, which he hath purchased with his owne bloud, 1 Pet. 5. 2. Feed the flock of God, which is among you, taking the over-sight thereof, not by constraint, &c. 1 Tim. 3. 2. A Bishop then must be blamelesse, &c. 4. One that ruleth well his owne house, &c. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Let the Elders that rule well, be counted worthy of double honour, v. 21. 28. 2 Tim. 2. v. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Tit. 1. 9, 10, 11. 2. The Lord in his house, putteth a difference betwixt the Feeders, and the flocke, the Governours, and the governed; those who are over the people in the Lord, and those who are under them in the Lord; the Overseers and Watchmen, and the City over which they watch; the Stewards, and the family; therefore there must be a peculiar authority in those who are Elders. 3. The flock is to obey, heare, follow, in the Lord, to have the Elders in high estimation, to submit to their doctrine, to receive them as Christ; Ergo, some authority they must have. 4. The Lord hath given to them an over-sight, Act. 20. 28. and hath committed to them a ministery, 2 Cor. 5. 15. hath put them in his worke and ministery, 1 Tim. 1. 12. 5. God will seeke an account of the bloud of the lost at their hand, Ezech. 3. 20. Heb. 13. 17. and God giveth a reward for the discharge of their office, 1 Pet. 5. 4. 2 Tim. 4 8 Matth. 24. v. 45. 46. Ergo, they must have a place of authority over the people, which the people have not. 6. The proportion betwixt the priesthood in the Old Testament, and the ministery of reconciliation which is more excellent and glorious, 2 Cor. 3. 7, 8. requireth the same. Now the Lord in a peculiar manner choosed the Tribe of Levi, Deut. 33. 8, 9. Esay 52. 11. Num. 3. 12. v. 45. ch. 8. v. 6. Separate the Levites to me, ch. 18. 23. Josh. 3. 3. 1 Chron. 15. 2. Josh. 14. 3. 8. But let our Author speake what peculiar authority, or what singular acts of authority are due to the Elders above the people. The Church (saith he) exerciseth severall acts of authoritie over the Elders. 1. In calling and electing them to office, and ordaining them in defect of the Presbytery.
I answer. 1. Calling and electing are not to be confounded; electing is no act of authority; but that the people calleth and ordaineth the Elders, wanteth example in the word of God, and therefore the Author addeth, that the people ordaineth the Elders in defect of their Presbytery, that is, where there is no Presbytery; then in case of extraordinary necessitie, and where the Church is not constituted, they are to ordaine the Elders, but in a Constitute Church, the power of ordination is in the Presbytery; Ergo, ordinarily the people doe not exercise this authoritie over the Elders.
2. The Church of beleevers, saith the Author, sendeth forth the Elders for the publick service of the Church; as the whole Church of Jerusalem sent forth chosen Ministers, with letters of instruction to Antioch, and to other Churches, Act. 15. 22. Now the Ambassadour is not greater then he that sent him, but usually inferiour, Joh. 13. 16.
Answ. 1. I deny not, but a Church of beleevers in the least Congregation is greater then any Pastor, or number of Pastors, as they are such; for the Pastors are servants for the Church, and meanes for the end, and lesse and inferior in respect of Christian dignity, but this is not the point, wee doe not now dispute of Christian dignitie, one redeemed soule in that respect is of more worth then a thousand Pastors as they are but meere Pastors, but because the Church sendeth the Elders, the Elders are a part, and a great part of the visible Church, which also send themselves; but it proveth not the Peoples Church authority, as they are contradistinguished from Elders to be superior and above the authority of Elders; for here the comparison must not be betwixt one or two Elders, and the Church including all the people and the rest of the Elders, but the comparison is betwixt spece and spece, the office and dignitie and authoritie of the Elders as Elders, and the people as people; and the Church of Jerusalem was not a Parishionall, but a Presbyteriall Church, consisting of many Elders, and Congregations: now we deny not two Elders to be inferior in authoritie to the whole Colledge of Elders and people, and so there is no authoritie of the people above the Elders, from this proved.
2. aMorton Grand Imposture. Sect 5. Pag. 47.Morton answereth Papists in the like argument, that sending proveth onelyonly that those who are sent, are not superiors to those who sent them, for the Father sent his Sonne into the world.
3. (Saith the Author) if an Elder or a whole Eldership erre, the Church may call him, or them to account, and in case of obstinacie excommunicate them: for it is not reason that Elders should want the medicine of excommunication to save their soules, if they stand in need thereof, more then other. As Peter gave an account, Act. 11. to the Church of Jerusalem of his going in to the uncircumoised.
Answ. 1. If a warrant or example from the word, that one single company of sole beleevers wanting Elders, did in a Church way censure any one Pastor, or a whole Eldership, and that the Church of Jerusalem consisting onelyonly of beleevers without Elders, called Peter before them judicially to give an account of going in to the uncircumcised, is a dreame: and though Peter should have given satisfaction to a number of sole beleevers, to remove the scandall, it proveth not that they had authoritie over Peter, for one private offender is obliged to give an account, and a satisfaction to another private brother, whom he hath offended, Matth. 18. 15. yet hath not a brother Church authoritie over one another, to excommunicate him, as our brethren say, that a company of onelyonly private beleevers may excommunicate all the Elders of the Congregation. 2. It followeth not that Elders should want the medicine of excommunication, when they stand in need thereof, because the people may not excommunicate them, for there be others who of office should excommunicate; and also the want of a meane of salvation, as the want of baptisme, where such are wanting, as have the onelyonly Church power, to administer such means, doth not condemn men.
On the other side, (saith the Author) the Elders have rule over the Church, and that in sundry Acts, as 1. in calling together the Church upon any weighty occasion, Act. 6. 2.
Answ. 1. This power of conveening the multitude, cannot bee the power of governing Gods house spoken of, 2 Tim. 3, 4, 5. Tit. 1. 5. to obey those who watch for our soules, Heb. 13. 17. cannot bee to conveene to a Church meeting at their commandement. 2. To conveen the Church meeting or Synods, is an action of the whole Church, for Christ hath given power to his owne Church an ecclesiastick power to conveen her owne Courts, and this can no more be a peculiar act of authoritie, agreeing onelyonly to the Elders, or to a Pastor, then the act of excommunication, for it is given to all the faithfull by your owne grounds, 1 Cor. 5. 4. 1 Cor. 11. 18 1 Cor. 14. 23. how then is it a peculiar act of auhoritie in the Elders? 1. The Elders, if they bee to bee accused and censured, are they to conveen the Judicatory, as the Consull did conveen the Senate, and to summon themselves? also if they have any power to conveen the Church, it is but delegated, for orders sake, to them, by the Church; Ergo, this authoritie is principally and first in the Church, and so it is no authoritie peculiar to the Elders; also, if it be but a thing of meere order, it is not an act of jurisdiction over the Church; a Moderator who conveeneth the Synod, or a Consul who conveenth the Senat, have not in that, jurisdiction or authoritie over the Synod or Senat, and may the Elders hinder, I pray you, the conveening of the Church? I thinke not.
3. This is but a Popish argument, Pope Julius the third, in his Bull taketh this upon him, to conveene Councells. The Ar… 1547. 9. Sess. of Trent. April. 21. An. 1548.Cardinall de Monte President for the Pope gave leave by a speciall Bull from the Pope to the Councell of Trent to advise about the translating of the Councell from Trent to Bonony. And aBellar. l. 1. de concil. c. 12.Good Bellarmine and bHarding 4. Article of Peters suprema…e as …well saith.Harding, as Jewell teacheth us, make this a part of the transcendent power and authoritie of the Pope over the Church, to conveen the Church Catholick; and if it bee an act of authoritie over the Church to conveene the Church, farre more must it bee in the Pope to conveene the Catholick Church.
Lastly, this power in Elders should bee made good by the Word of God.
Secondly, (saith hee) their authority over the Church is in opening the doores of speech and silence to any of the Assembly, Act. 13. 13. unlesse it be where the Elders themselves lie under offence or suspition, then the offended party may begin with them, Act. 11. 2. Yet with due reverence observed, as to their yeares, so to their place, 1 Tim. 5. 3.
Answ. If to speake first in a Church meeting, prove that the Elders have authority over the Church; then one Elder hath authority over all the rest of the Elders, and must be a little Pope, or a great Prelate, for two or foure Elders cannot all speake first. We seeke now an act of authority due to Elders or Pastors, as they are such, and above the people; if you make this an act of authority, you then give us in every Church-meeting and Synod a Pastor of Pastors, and an Elder of Elders, and a Pope. 2. If this be an act of authority over the Church, then have Papists well proven that Peter hath an authority and power over all the Church, for cSuarez t…. detripl…. vitr. disp. 10. de sam …on…. Sect. 1. Num. 22.Suarez, and dBellarm. de P…n…f Rom. l. 1. c. 22. Pe…us in conc…l… primo … l…quttur.Bellarmine, and eHarding loco cita….Harding prove Peter to be a Pope, because he speaketh first in the councell, Act. 13. 13. and the text that you cite, they cite also: But f… kerus tom. 2. contrev 4 9 2 c. 14. Responde … posse colligi ex hoc loco Petrum esse … citio primum: na… constat ante … foreign, quis pri…us … su… … evangel…sta tacuit.Whittakerus, and gGerson t…. 4. in propos ut…. ad … ter scbisma.Gerson saith, as also hLyranus in ….Lyran, and iCarthusian in locum.Carthusian, It is like that James spake first as President of the Councell. 3. The Author leaveth this act of authority, as weake, and saith, that the offended party may speake first. Ergo (say I) to speake first is not an authoritative act of Pastors as Pastors agreeing to them, by vertue of their office, seeing this act is communicated to those who are out of office. Ergo, they have not shewen as yet any Pastorall act of office due to the Elders as Elders; and if it were most convenient that Elders should first speake, our brethren will not say that it is due to them by their office, but for their age and gifts, and so they say nothing.
Thirdly, (saith the Author) Elders have rule over the Church in preaching the word, and they have power to teach and exhort, to charge and command, to reprove and rebuke with all authoritie, 1 Tim. 5. 7. and 6. 17. 2 Thes. 3. 6.
Answ. It can not be denied, but Elders, that is, preaching Elders or Pastors, have authoritie over the people in preaching and rebuking with all authoritie; but 1. I aske at our brethren, by what authoritie of the Scripture is pastorall binding and loosing an authoritative act of the preaching Elder onelyonly? for the concionall or preaching power of remitting and retaining sinnes, Joh. 20. 21. is all one with the power of the keyes, Matth. 16. and that is given (saith our brethren) to the whole Church, and by these texts are not restricted to Pastors as they expone them. 2. Our brethren alledge there is a two-fold power of preaching in Pastors, one by vertue of their gift, another by vertue of their office. By the first Pastors doe preach to Infidels, Turkes, and unconverted ones; now this preaching is not proper to Pastors as Pastors, nor is it any authority peculiar to Pastors over all the flocke, for all gifted persons (as our brethren teach) may preach, and so the gifted ones amongst the people have authority over the Pastors in this meaning, as well as the Pastors have over them, and so the difference of rulers and ruled, of feeders and the fed, is taken away. Now for the power of Pastorall teaching, the Pastors have authority over the Church, but that is over the invisible Church of beleevers, and regenerated persons, for Pastors as Pastors doe not convert Soules, and so they preach to the unconverted not as Pastors, or with any Pastorall care: for they teach that Pastors, Doctors, and Church-officers are given, Ephes. 4. 11. onelyonly for confirming of those who are already converted, not for converting of Soules, and by this meanes, 1. Pastors doe not preach the Law, for the humbling of unconverted sinners, they doe not as Pastors, or by vertue of the office open the eyes of the blinde, nor are they Ministers by whom men beleeve, 1 Cor. 3. 5. nor are they Fathers who begot men in Christ Jesus, through the Gospell, as 1 Cor. 4. 25. Nor doe they pray men in Christs stead to be reconciled unto God, as 2 Cor. 5. 20. Which is strange and uncouth Doctrine of our brethren, for all these acts ministeriall are performed upon non-converts, who are not properly members of Christs mysticall body, nor of the spouse of Christ, nor members of the visible Church, nor the Sonnes and Daughters of the Lord God Almighty, nor have some measure of sincerity and truth, as this author Chap. 3. Sect. 3. requireth of members of the visible Church, and these are not under any pastorall care, really and in very deed, who are yet unconverted to the faith, therefore the Pastor, if hee convert any by his preaching, he doth it by vertue of his gift, not as a Pastor or by vertue of his office, as they teach in their answer to the 32. questions, & so as Pastors they have no authoritie over the unconverted within the visible Church; and this authoritative act of Elders over the people, falleth to the ground, by their principles.
3. This authoritative preaching doth not yet make over to the Elders authoritative power above, or over the people, such as wee now seeke. For 1. By this ruling Elders who do not preach and labour not in the Word and doctrine, 1 Tim. 7. 17. by office, have not this power; Ergo, yet you give no peculiar authoritie to the whole Eldership over the people. 2. The Spirit of God requireth an authority of overseeing and governing to bee in Pastors beside the authoritative power of preaching; for besides that a Bishop should bee …apt to teach, 1 Tim. 3. 2. hee must also, v. 4, 5, 6. bee one, who can both govern his own house, and also the Church of God, and not onelyonly must hee not neglect the gift of prophecying, 1 Tim. 4. 14. but also hee must know, 1 Tim. 3. 13. how to behave himselfe in the Church of God, and must bee circumspect in receiving accusations against an Elder, and lay hands suddenly on no man, and not be partaker of other mens sinnes, 1 Tim. 5. 19. 22. he must not onelyonly bee an approven workman, to divide the Word aright, 1 Timothey 2. 15. and preach in season and out of season, 2 Tim. 4. 2. but also must commit the Word to faithfull men who are able to teach others, 2 Tim. 2. 2. All which are singular points of authoritative power of government different from authoritative power of teaching. And so Titus must not onelyonly have the oversight by sound doctrine to exhort and convince the gainesayers, Tit. 1. 9. but hee hath power in governing to order the things of discipline, and to appoint Elders in every citie, Tit. 1. 9. Act. 4. 23. yea there is an oversight in watching for soules, in governing no lesse then in teaching, H…b. 13. 17. Now this Author sheweth us nothing, that is a peculiar authoritative power in ruling, governing and a disciplinary overseeing of soules, which the Word giveth to Elders, as they are Elders, and called Governors of Gods people, as yet, yea all the people are governors, rulers and overseers in government by them, no lesse then the Elders.
4. The Author saith, Elders have rule over the Church in dispensing all the censures of the Church, (unlesse it bee in their owne cause) for though they take the consent of the Church in dispensing a censure, yet they set on the censures with great authoritie, in the name of the Lord; yea it is no small power, that they put forth in directing the Church, what censures are due according to the word: as, though the Judge dispense no sentence, but according to the verdict of the Jury, yet his authority is great both in directing the Jury to give their verdict according to the Law, and in pronouncing the sentence with power and terrour; the like d…e the Elders in dispensing Church censures.
Answ. This dispensing of Church censures hath two branches. 1. A directing of the Church in the qualitie of the censures. 2. A binding of the censures upon them, or in executing the censures of the Church. For the former, if it bee a pastorall direction, it is all one with preaching of the Word, and is not an act of authority by way of governing, but by way of pastorall teaching. But, 1. Wee would have a word from God, giving this power of the keyes peculiarly to the Pastors, for if you give the keyes to all the Church of beleevers, as beleevers, and because they are Christs Spouse, his mysticall body, the habitation of his Spirit by faith, then with your good leave, there bee neither keyes, nor any power of the keyes given to the Pastors as Pastors, and in respect of their office, but onelyonly as they are a part of Christs body; now as Pastors or Elders, they are neither beleevers, nor the bride, nor a part of the bride, but at best the friends of the Bridegroome, Joh. 3. 29. especially seeing the Church as the Church, and as using actually the keyes, doth censure and judicially prescribe the qualitie and quantitie of the censure, as they are directed, Matth. 18. 1 Cor. 5. 2, 3, 4, 5. yea and the Church judicially, and authoritatively pronounceth the sentence, and maner of the censure on the sentence: for example, of ten collaterall and coequall Judges, if two of these ten bee skilled Juristes, and shall direct the rest in the qualitie of the punishment to bee inflicted upon a malefactor, that direction commeth from them, not as Judges over the rest, nor by any peculiar power that they have above the rest, seeing all the ten are equally and joyntly Judges of a like power, but that direction commeth from them as skilled Jurists: So here, though the Elders direct the Church anent, the qualitie of the censure, they doe not this by an authority above the Church, seeing the Church with them have received the Keyes; yea they principally as the Spouse of Christ, and his mysticall body, have received the keyes, and the Pastoes and Elders as such have the keyes, not but as they are beleevers and a part of the mysticall body, but as they are Pastors and Elders they have not received the keyes at all, by our brethrens doctrine; yea as Elders or officers they are not parts of the Church, but onelyonly adjuncts and ornaments thereof. For the second, to wit, the execution of the censures of the Church, if they doe it as Pastors, and by vertue of their office execute the sentence of the Church as Pastors, they are meere servants of the Church, not collaterall Judges, with the Church, and are not as the Judge who doth direct the Jury: for the Jury doth only cognosce of the fact, but hath no judiciall power to pronounce the sentence or discerne the qualitie of the punishment, nor can the Jury at all discerne any punishment. But the Judge cognosceth both of the Law, and the fact, and authoritatively pronounceth sentence; but the Elders have no authoritative power in directing the people to pronounce, or not pronounce the sentence; or what sentence to pronounce, or what censure to inflict; for if they have this authoritative power, then we seeke Scripture to warrant this power. 2. The Elders must then have the keyes in a more emminent manner then the people or Church of beleevers; so all bee but blanke and emptie titles given to Elders hitherto.
Fiftly, saith the Author, The Elders have power to dismisse the people or Church, and that with a blessing, Numb. 6. 23. to 26. which is an act of seperioritie, Heb. 7. 7.
An. This is but an emptie title also. For, 1. The Pastoronly, & one dismisseth Doctor, Elders, Deacons, and the whole Congregation; and so one is a Pastor of Pastors, and an Arch-Elder of Elders hath authority, by this, over his fellow Elders, and candismisse them, therefore there is nothing peculiar in an officiall power, here to the whole presbytery, above the people. 2. A majority or superioritie is one thing, and a power of jurisdiction is another. Blessing of the Church at their dismission is nothing, but a prayer of the whole Church (the Minister being mouth) who blesseth all, and is no act of superioritie of jurisdiction, or power of the keyes, of which wee now dispute. And you cannot thinke that to obey those who are over you in the Lord, and submit to them, as it is, Heb. 13. 17. is nothing but to receive a dismissory blessing from the Pastor. And I much doubt, if the Priests blessing of the people, Numb. 6. was morall, and if it was not typicall, hee not taking in himselfe, but as a type of Christ, pronouncing the whole visible Church blessed, sorypifying Christ our Priest, in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed, Gal. 38. 14. And do not the people pay the Pastor home in his owne coyne, for you make the Church of beleevers to ordaine their owne Elders, and to lay hands upon them and blesse them, so you teach. 3. Nor is dismissing of the Church an act of authoritie, or of officiall power, for your preaching and unofficed professors may dismisse, as well as they may publikely pray and preach. 2. A dismission is agreed upon by the Church, before hand, and floweth from the nature of all publike meetings. 3. Ejusdem est potestatis congregare & dimittere caetum congregatum; you know to conveene Christs Courts authoritatively is due to no man on earth; the Church hath an intrinsecall power of herselfe to conveene (being the Court of the Lord Jesus) and so also to dissolve, and this is the usurped power that the Antichrist taketh to himselfe to conveene the generall councells; as aBellar. l. 1. de conc. c. 12.Bellarmin, bSuarez de tripl. tra. Theo. disp. sect. 3.Suarez, cPighius l. 6. c. 18.Pighius, and dCajetan, de …uthorit. Pap. …. 16.Cajetanus teach us.
Sixtly, our Author saith; In case of Apostasie of the Church, or other notorious scandals, or obstinacie thereof, their Elders have power to denounce the judgement of God against the Church, and withdraw themselves from it; As upon the Idolatry of the Israeli…es, Moses tooke the Tabernacle and pitched it without the camp, Exod. 33. And Paul with Barnabas rejected the Jewes for their blasphemy, and turned to the Gentiles, Act. 13. 45, 46.
Answ. Here be two diverse things sewed together to make up one thing: 1. to denounce the judgement of God is one thing, 2. to separate from the Church is another thing; the former is an act of authoritie, being rightly taken, the latter is an act of no authoritie. But for the first, to denounce judgement on a visible Church, and that with a separation, is … nothing but an act of Pastorall teaching, and so no act of officiall power of governing in the Elders above the Church, is brought in all these six, and so yet the difference betwixt the feeders and the fed, the shepheards and flocke, the watchman and the Also your unofficed Prophets may as well denounce judgement against an Apo sta… Church, as they may publikely preach mercy in the Gospel, and s… this is no officiall act of authoritie.citie, or the people who are to submit and obey these who are over them in the Lord, who rule well, is close everted, and all the Churches are turned masters, feeders, governors, rulers; for Elders have no officiall authoritie by our brethrens doctrine, which is not in the Church of beleevers. 2. To denounce judgement to an Idolatrous and obstinate Church, who by their Apostasie do declare themselves, not to bee Christs body, is a Pastorall act of Pastors exercised on those who now leave off to be Churches, and this is to play the Pastors to that which is not a flocke, and as unlawfull as for a husband to exercise the actions of a husband to one who is not his wife. 3. To separate from an obstinate Church is by you thought lawfull to all private Christians, who would not defile themselves with the pollutions of the Church, how then do you make it an authoritative act of ruling Pastors? 4. For Pastors to remove the Gospell, and preach no more to an obstinate Church, is not, nor can it, in reason, be, that wherein wee are to submit and obey those, who are over us in the Lord. My reason is, we are to be agents, at least, for most part, in submitting and yeelding our selves to those who in teaching and governing are over us in the Lord, because they watch for our soules. But in their separating from us and removall of the Gospel, wee are meere patients and cannot be agents. 5. Moses his removall of the Tabernacle, and Paul his turning from the Jewes, was by another spirits warrant, then Pastors now a dayes can dare to remove themselves, and their Ministery from a visible Church, for Paul turned from the Jewes for their universall Apostasie, blasphemy, and opposing of the maine and principall foundation of the Christian faith, to wit, that Christ Jesus came in the world, died for sinners, rose againe, and ascended to heaven, &c. The 4. case, to wit, of any particular scandall, or scandals and of obstinacie therein, cannot bee the like ground for Elders to separate from a Church and never preach the Gospel againe to them.