The Due Right of Presbyteries, Chapter 10 · Section 1 · Objection 11 – Objection 15
Object, 11. If the Church, which you suppse to be presbyteriall, to wit, the Church of Corinth, did excommunicate, or was commanded to excommunicate the incestu…us person, before the Congregation convened and met in one, then must your classicall Church exercise all other acts of Iurisdiction, before all the Congregationall Churches of the Classicall Presbytery meete in one.
But this latter is as unpossible, as absurd; For how shall thirty or forty Congregations meet all, in one place, for all the severall acts of Jurisdiction? Also you confesse that many Congregations cannot meete in one place: that the proposition may be made good; We suppose these grounds of the Presbyteriall frame of Churches: 1. That the presbyteriall Church of Corinth, not the Congregation had the onelyonly power of excommunication. 2. That this man was to be excommunicated in presence, and so with the consent of the whole multitude, for so the Text sayth, 1 Cor. 5. 4. foreign. When you are gathered together. 3. Excommunication is the highest act of Iurisdiction in the Church, being the binding of the sinner in Heaven and Earth, if therefore this highest act of Iurisdiction must bee performed before all the Church congregated in one, then must all acts of Iurisdiction be performed also in presence of the congregated Church; for it concerneth their edification, and is a matter of conscience to then: all. 4. The reason why wee thinke sit hee should be excommunicated before, or in presence of that Congregation whereof hee is a member, is because it concerneth them, and hee is a member of this Congregation, But by your grounds, the whole Presbyteriall or classicall Church should be present, which were unpossible; for hee is to you a Member of the whole Classicall Church, and the power of excommunication is in the whole classicall Church, and they ought to bee present by the same reason, that the Congregation, whereof hee is a neerest member, is present.
Answ. 1. There be many things in this argument to be corrected, as 1. That the Church of Corinth conve…ed in the whole multitude whom it concerned, for foreign, doth not prove it; for the same Word is spoken of the meeting of the Apostles and Elders, who met in a Synod with authority, Acts 15. 6. the word foreign is attributed to the multitude, Acts 21. v. 22. and to the Church of Believers, 1 Cor. 11. 20. and 1 Cor. 14. 23. therefore the one word foreign seemeth to bee no cogent Argument. 2. The word foreign, which is not here in all this Chapter, or foreign is used in the New Testament, and by the seventy Interpreters, whose translation Christ and his Apostles doe frequently follow in the New Testament, use the words for any meeting of good or ill, of civill or Ecclesiasticall persons. As I might instance is a great many places of the Old and New Testament; then what is it, I pray you, which restricteth the signification of these words to signifie a civill, rather then an Ecclesiasticall meeting? certainly the actions which the company doth when they are met, and the end for which they meete. I give an instance in Acts 19. 41. the word foreign (the like I say of foreign) signifieth not the Church of Christ, and why? it is a reason that cannot bee controlled. They were assembled for to raise a tumult against Paul which was no Church-action, and so no Church end is here. So v. 39. But if you enquire any thing in other matters, it shall be determined foreign in a lawfull assembly; surely the end of such an assembly in Ephesus, where this man was Town-Clark in the meeting, could be. no Church-businesse, Hence wee are led to know what foreign, an Assembly or Church signifieth here not the Church of Christ, so Psal. 22. 16. the Assembly of the wicked hath inclosed mee foreign Merighem the seventy Interpreters turne it foreign, and T…rtullian followeth them, the persons congregated, the actions and end for which they convenc lead us to this, that the Word signifieth not a Church of Christ. So wee may see, Psal. 26. 5. the Congregation of Elders cannot bee a true Church, 2. 1 Cor. 11. 18. for first when you come together to the Church, foreign, I heare there are divisions amongst you. The place must signifie the Church of Believers, because the end of their meeting was the Supper of the Lord, or their communion, v. 20. as the Text cleareth, and 1 Cor. 14. 23. when the whole Church commeth together, that was for prophecying and hearing of the Word, as the Text is evident, v. 16, 17, 18, 23, 24, 25 26, 27. and therefore here the word foreign must signifie the Church of Pastors preaching, and people hearing the Word, praying and praising God. So in the third place when foreign, the Church is convened to bind and loose, and to excommunicate, as Mat. 18. 17. 18. 19. there is no necessity that the Word Church, should include those who have no power of the keyes, and cannot by power of the Keyes bind and loose. And therefore from the naked and meere Grammar of the word foreign, no argument can bee drawen to prove that foreign Matth. 18. 17. must signifie that same which it doth signifie, 1 Corin. 1. 1. 1 Corin. 11. 18. 1 Corin. 14. 23. for the word actu primo, and originally, signifieth any meeting, but the persons who are Congregated and the end for which they meete leadeth us to the meaning and Grammaticall sense of the word, in that place. Now Matth. 18. the Ecclesia, a Church Congregated there is such as bindeth and looseth in Heaven and Earth, and congregated for that use: therefore I see not how the circumstances of the place helping us to the Grammaticall sense of the word here, as in all other places, doth not inforce us to say in this place Mat. 18. the word Ecclesia, Church, must signifie onelyonly those who have power to bind and loose, that is, only the Elders, and not the people. So to come to the place, 1 Cor. 5.
Those who come under the name of foreign, congregated together, must bee expounded by the persons Office, and the end of their meeting, now the persons Office is Ministeriall, hee will have them congregated by Pauls Ministeriall spirit, and in the name and with the power of the Lord Jesus, this is the power of the Keyes, which hee who hath Davids Keyes Esai. 22. 22. on his Shoulders, Revel. 3. 7. giveth to his owne Officers, Matth. 16. 19. and these persons cannot be all that hee writeth unto v. 1. all that were p…ffed up, and mourned not at the offence given by the incestuous …, to Iesus Christs holy Nam… and Church, all who are to forbeare eating and drinking with excommunicated persons, vers. 11. all who were in danger to be leavened, vers 6. all who were to keepe the Feast in sincerity, not with the old Leaven of wickednesse and malice: for these directly were the whole multitude of Believers, Men, Women, and Children, who (I am sure) were not capable of the Keyes and the Ministeriall power of Paul. 2. The end wherefore these foreign who were convened, did meete and convene, was, vers. 5. foreign. to deliver the man to Satan, they were not convened to celebrate the Lords Supper, as the Church is convened, 1 Cor. 11. 18. nor for hearing the Word of Prophecy, or Preaching, as 1 Cor. 14. 23, 24. And whether you construe the Words foreign with the Power of the Lord Iesus, with the Verbe foreign, to deliver to Satan, or with the Participle foreign congregated in the Name and Power of CHRIST, all is one; the multitude of common Believers, of Men, Women, and Children, are neither capable of the power, nor of the exercise of that power to deliver to Satan. And therefore this meeting together, by no Grammar doth leade us to say that the sentence was to be pronounced in face and presence of the multitude convened, vers. 21. Giving, but not granting that the Church of Corinth, in all its members, must bee convened. Though I hold it not necessary by this place, yet it followeth not that all other acts of Jurisdiction must bee exercised in face of the whole Congregation: for there is a speciall reason of the pronouncing of the sentence, which is not in other acts: the pronouncing of the sentence, concerneth more the neerest Congregation of which the Delinquent is a member, in relation of nearest and dayly Communion, it concerneth also other Congregations of the Classicall Church, of which also the Delinquent is a member, but not so immediately and neerely, because (as I sayd before) the more universall the Church visible is, the externall visible Communion is l…sse; even as when the number of a Family is cut off, by the Sword of the Magistrate, the matter first and more intimately and more neerely concerneth the Family whereof hee is a Member, yet it doth also concerne the Common-Wealth, of which also hee is a Member. A Finger of the right Hand is infected with a contagious Gangren, it is to bee cut off; yet the cutting-off concerneth more neerely the right Hand, then it doth the left Hand, and the whole Body. For the contagion should first over-spread the right Hand and Arme, and Shoulder, before it infect the left Hand, and the whole Body; though it doe not a little concerne the whole Body also. So though actuall Excommunication concerne all the Churches of the Presbyterie: yet it doth more neerely concerne the Congregation whereof hee is a Member. 2. The pronouncing of the sentence being edificative, it is a fit meane to worke upon others, but calling and trying of witnesses, and Juridicall decerning of a Man to bee Excommunicated, requiring secrecies, yea and some scandals, and circumstances of Adultery, Incest, Pestiality, requiring a modest covering of them, from Virgins, young Men, Children and the multitude, wee have no warrant of GOD, that they should bee tryed before the whole multitude, nor are acts of Jurisdiction for their excellency, to bee brought forth before the people but for their neerenesse of concernment, and use of edification.
Object. 12. The people are to consent, yea they must have a power, and some thing more than a consent in Excommunication; Ergo, they are all to bee present. The antecedent is proved, 1. Because they were not puffed up, they did not keepe the Feast, they did not dostaine from eating with the incestuous person, onelyonly by consent. 2. Others not of that Church did excommunicate by consent. 3. It is said, v. 12, doe yee not judge them that are within?
Answ. If you will have them to excommunicate the same way, that they doe other duties, you may say they excommunicate the same way that Pastors and Elders doe, and if they Judge, vers. 12. as the Elders doe, either all the people are Judges, and where are then all the governed, if all bee governours? or then hee speaketh in this Chapter to the Churches-Iudges onelyonly. 2. There bee degrees of consent, these of other Churches have a tacite and remote consent, the people of the Congregation are to heare, and know the cause, and deale in private with the offender, and to mourne, and pray for him.
Object. 13. The highest and double honour is due to him who laboureth in the word, 1 Tim. 5. 17. but if the Presbyteriall Church be the highest Church, it shall not have the double honour, for it is onelyonly the governing Church.
Answ. Highest honour is due in suo genere, to both. And this is, as if you should compare obedience and honour, that I owe to my Father with that which I owe to my grand-Father, 2. Paul, 1 Tim. 5. 17. compareth Elders of diverse sorts together; as the Ruling and Teaching Elder, here you compare Pastors to bee honoured in respect of one act, with themselves to bee honoured in respect of another act; and this might prove, I am to give more honour to my Pastor for preaching in the Pulpit, then for ruling in the Church-Senate.
Object. 14. The Congregation is the highest Church, for it hath all the Ordinances, Word, Sacraments, Jurisdiction; Ergo, there is not any Presbyteriall Church higher which hath only disciplinary power.
Answ. There is a double highnesse, one of Christian Dignity. 2. Another, of Church-prehemenency, or of Ecclesiasticall authority: indeed the Congregation, the former way, is highest, the company of Believers is the Spouse and ransomed Bride of Christ. But the Eldership hath the Ecclesiasticall eminency; as the Kings heire and Sonne is above his Master and Teacher one way, yet the Teacher (as the Teacher by the fift Commandement) is above the Kings Sonne as the Teacher is above him who is taught; And so is the Case here.
Object. 15. The Arguments for a Classicall, or Presbyteriall Church do much side with Prelacy; for you make many Lords ruling and not teaching.
Answ. Let all judge whether the independent power of three Elders accountable to none, in a Church-way, but to Iesus Christ onelyonly, as you make your little Kingdomes on Earth, be neerer to the Popes Monarchy, and especially when there is but one Pastor in the Congregation, then the subordinate Government of fourescore, or an hundred Elders… sure I am, three Neighbours are neerer to one Monarch, then three hundred. 2. One Monarchicall Society is as tyrannicall Antichristianism as one Monarchicall Pastor. 3. If wee made many ruling and dominering Lords, you should say something; but wee make many servants endued onelyonly with Ministeriall power, onelyonly to teach and rule, and to bee accomptable to the Church; your Eldership in this agreeth with the Pope, that though they deliver many Soules to Satan, yet no Man on Earth can, in a Church-way, say, What doe you?