The Due Right of Presbyteries, Chapter 10 · Section 1 · Objection 3 – Objection 8
3. They object; if a single Congregation have not power of Excommunication, and of entire and compleat government within it selfe, because it is but a part of a Presbyteriall Church, and so an incompleat Church: by that same reason a Presbyteriall Church shall be a compleate Church, and not have entire and compleat power of Government within it selfe; because a presbyteriall Church is a part of a provinciall Church, and a provinciall Church shall be in the same case, because it is a part of a Nationall Church, and a Nationall Church, in that same case; because it is a part of the catholick visible Church, and there shall bee no perfit visible Church on Earth, which hath full and entire power of jurisdiction, save onelyonly the caholicke visible Church, which by no possibility can convene, before her Oecunenick and highest catholick Court, a Nationall Church, or the Church of great Brittaine, and upon the testimony of three witnesses deliver her to Satan, and upon supposall of Repentance receive her againe to the catholick power of that same Court; into fellowship of Church-union with the great catholick body. For so because this catholick Church, for many centuries, yea possibly for a million of yeeres, cannot convene to exercise her authority in a Court (and out of her Court shee hath none) the repenting Nationall Church, shall remaine in Satans bands for ever, by a physicall and invincible necessity.
Answ. A single Congregation is a Church, but so as it is a part also and a member of a Presbyteriall Church, and because of neernesse of communion with consociated Churches under one Presbytery; it can neither have compleat power of casting out one of its owne members, because that member hath so strict a visible Union of membership also with consociated Churches, nor can it exercise that intrinsecall power that it hath as a remote part of Christs Catholick body, but the case for ordinary and constant power of ordinary and constant Jurisdiction is not so in a Presbyteriall, in a provinciall, in a Nationall, in the Catholick visible Body. And therefore it followeth not that they are not compleat Bodies, and entire Churches for all ordinarie and constant Jurisdiction; and the reason is cleare, because Synods or Synodicall Churches above a Presbytery to me are not ordinary; not constant Courts, but extraordinary, and prore nata occasionall, having their rise from some occurrence of providence, as is most cleare, by Scripture. The Church of Ephesus being a Presbyteriall Church, did constantly exercise Discipline, and try false Prophets, and those which called themselves Iewes, but were lievs, Revel. 2. 2. Whereas that famous Councell at Ierusalem was not an ordinary and constant Court, but extraordinary, that is, occasionall (for so I take the Word, for expressions cause) and had its rise, Acts 15. 1. from a meere occasion, because some came from Iudea and taught the Brethren, except yee be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved, And the subject of this Court was not the constant and ordinary affaires of Discipline, that belonged to the presbytery of Ierusalem, and Antioch. No, v. 6. the subject was only an incident controversy raised by false teachers, subverters of soules, v. 24. and therefore it is said, v. 6. The Apostles and Elders, foreign, to consider of this matter; therefore the presbyteriall Church hath both Word and Sacraments dispensed in it distributively through all the Churches, and for the power of Jurisdiction ordinary intensivè, and quoad essentiam Ecclesiae ministerialis, according to the entire essence of a ministeriall Church, it is as perfit and compleat in one single Congregation, as in a provinciall, as in a Nationall, yea as in the Catholick visible Body, whereof Christ is the Head; onelyonly a provinciall, nationall, and the Catholick Church visible, extensivè, according to the power of extension, is a larger and a superior Church, and though the presbyteriall Church be a part of the Catholick, it is so a part, as it is a perfit whole Church: as a man is a part of this great all, the World, yet so, as he is a perfit reasonable Creature, and so a whole man, and a part of the World: but a Congregation is so a part of the Presbytery, that it hath not a whole, entire, compleat intensive power over its owne members to excommunicate them, because its members are for contiguity and necessity of neere visible communion, parts that cannot avoyd dayly edifying or scandalizing of consociated Churches, and therefore the consociated churches trust have a power over the members of a Congregation. But our Brethren will say; Contiguity of locall cohabitation doth not in be a visible Church, but only the voluntary agreement of Professors who doe, ex pacto, and by covenant tacit or expresse, make up a conseciation: for a Papist and a Protestant may cohabit in one house.
Answ. That is true, but contiguity is such a necessary foundation of externall visible Church fellowship in one presbytery, as without that contiguity, I see not how, jure Divino, there can be either a Congregationall Church, or any other Church: for, sure I am, Christ hath not ordained me to be a member of a Congregation in America, or of a presbyteriall Church in Geneva. And that such persons and no more be members of a Congregation, is not juris Divini, yet without a contiguity lesse or more they cannot be members of a Congregation, nor is this single Congregation a limbe of this presbyteriall Church, jure Divin…; onelyonly this in abstracto is jus Divinum, that there be a Congregation of a convenient number, and a presbytery of such as may meete conveniently in their guides. But to returne, the Brethren do deny that God gave a power of Jurisdiction to the Catholick visible Court of the O…cumenick Church. And why? because a generall councell cannot excommunicate, nor relax from Excommunication a nationall Church, But I answer, 1. It is by accident, and not through want of innate and intrinsecall power, that the Court of a Catholick councell cannot in an ordinary and constant way, exercise the power that Christ hath given to her, as the presbyteriall church doth; and the exigence of providence maketh it so, because it falleth out by the blessing of God, that Zion must say, as it is, Esai. 49. 20. The place is too streight for me, give place to me that I may dwell. And because she inlargeth the place of her Tent, and stretcheth forth the curtains of her habitation, and lengthneth her cords, and breaketh forth on the right hand, and on the left, and her seed inheriteth the Gentiles, Esai. 54. 2 3. and because from the rising of the Sun, to the going d…ne thereof, his Name is great amongst the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to him, Mal. 1. 11. yet have generall councells condemned Hereticks, as Nestorians, Macedonians, Eutyches and others; and I see nothing to prove that a generall councell hath no power to excommunicate a Nationall Church. If the Lord should be pleased to give the Christian Churches a generall councell this day, they might lawfully, in a juridicall way, declare the faction of Romish pretended catholicks, to be mysticall Babylon, a cage of uncleane Birds, which is excommunication in the essence and substance of the Act; nor is there need of a legall and juridicall citation of nationall Churches, or a citation of witnesses to prove Romish Heresies, and perfidious and detestable obstinacy: for their writings, and deeds, are so notorious, that the senses of men may as infallibly prove the fact, as we know there is such a City in the world as Rome, and C…n…tantinople; as for the instance that a catholick councell cannot ordinarily be had, to relax a repenting nationall Church: I answer, the same inconvenience will follow, if we suppose an ordinary case, the Church congregationall (as our Brethren suppose) of Ierusalem, Acts. 2. consisting of three thousand and a hundred and twenty, having excommunicated Ananias, Saphira, and others, who yet by the grace of God, should truely repent; in the meane time, the Sword of the Roman Emperor intervening scattereth this Church, that they cannot convene in a spirituall Court, to relax them (and out of Court they have no authority of Jurisdiction) here were an invincible necessity of their remaining in Satansbonds, in foro externo ecclesiae. But what then? This is to limit God, as Papists do in binding and tying salvation of Infants to the outward signe of externall baptisme; as if God, in soro caeli, in his own Court could not absolve penitent sinners, because the Church will not, which is more ordinary, through mens corruption, or cannot absolve, through the necessity of exigence of divine providence: and the more catholick that crosses be, as war…, the universall and catholick cruelty, and treachery of the church of M…lignants against the true catholick Church of Christ, the more easily are the Juridicall and Court-operations, actions and proceedings of the catholick universall Church impedited. And therefore this of our Saviours, tell the Church, is necessarily to be applyed to all Churches and Courts of Christ, even to a catholick councell, though Christ gave instances in an offended Brother, who is to tell the Church, But I am sure, (tell the church) is not to be restricted to a vocal & personall complaining of one brother against another, in the face of a single Congregation. For if the offence be committed before the Sun at noon-day in the seeing and hearing of the church, either congregationall, or presbyteriall, as some may, and one do by word and writ openly blaspheme God: in this case Christs affirmative command, tell the church, doth not in conscience oblige one man to come and deale with the delinquent in private, and then (if he repent not) before witnesses, & then to tell the church, so as one sinneth if he tell not the church; for here Gods providence disposing of the notoriousnesse and publicknes of the scandall doth tell the church; and yet, I hope, our Brethren could not deny, but this Text doth w… that such a publick offender who scandalizeth many Churches should be excommunicated by this place, Mat. 18. from which I gather the weakenes of what is said for the independency of churches from, Mat. 18.
Ob. 1. Here we cannot understand the Church universall. 1. Because he would not say where two or three are gathered in my Name, I will be in the midst of them, for two or three cannot represent all the Churches comprehended under the catholick visible Body of Jesus Christ.
Ans. This is an argument from the lesse to the more. If I be present (would our Saviour say) where two or three, though they be but two or three: I will far rather be present in the assemblies of the Church. Nor can the words stand according to the letter strictly, according to our Brethrens mind, that two should be a Church; for there should be Pastors and Elders, and Christian witnesses, two at least, and the accused Brother here. 2. two or three, and brother and brother are not to be taken as singular men only, but as two or thee men, or Churches, who as they Abulensis …u loc. etiam si non si…t ….may be offended. 1 Cor. 10 32. so may they give scandall and offence; so may three, foure, of consociated Congregations give the offence, and that publickly; what? hath Christ provided no remedy against scandals in his whole Kingdome, but only for scandals fallen out in the single persons of a small Congregation consisting of ten, 20 100. or 200. only when these little congregations offend sister Congregations, they are left to the immediate judgement of God? This is wonderfull.
Ob. 2. The christian magistrate as a nursing father is to punish those who offend, and hath power to command Churches to confesse offences done to sister Churches, and command Church censures, as excommunication, to be used, and Christs power to be put forth in practise, according to the will of Jesus Christ.
Answ. Yet doth it follow that the Apostolick Churches, & the succeeding Churches to them under the ten bloudy persecutions, when Magistrates were enemies to Christ, and his church, that the Churches wanted spirituall meanes to gaine fallen and scandalous churches. 2. Christ hath provided an Ecclesiasticall power to remove scandalls betwixt church and church; for the Magistrates power is civill and put forth by the Sword, and by carnall weapons. Christs … in this, Mat. 18. 19. s to remove scandalls, and gaine soales v. 15 for heare thee, thou o…st gained thy Brothe. The Sword of the Magistrate is not ordained to gaine so…les to Repentance. That … who careth for the part of a visible church, doth he not far rather care in a spirituall way, for the whole? 3. What can the Magistrate command here? the Eldership of a Congregation turn… Here…icks and scandalous to sister Churches and infecteth then. To… Magistrate commadeth that Church censures be used … them as you say, who should use them? not a sister Church … is offended. She hath no power; not the Eldership themselves offending. Christ never ordained that a church should excommunicate her selfe; not the people; Who gave them power? And the major part of them turneth scandalous. Also Christ nere hath left n…re ne…y. but let them grow till Harvest, so say A…abaptists.
Ob. 3. Christ here speaketh for a present and constant removing of scand … Brother and Brother of one congregation. A cathalick … of the whole visible Church is far off, …nd cannot be ….
Answ. That he speaketh of a present and constant remedy only, and of no remedy against the scandall of whole Churches, is de…ed. He speaketh of all remedies to gaine any offenders, persons or churches.
Ob. 4. Then should an universall councell of the whole world be absolutely necessary, if in some cases we must tell the whole catholickchurch
Ans. Neither doth that follow generall councels are neither necessary to the being, nor to the well-being, but only to the best being of the catholick church, and if the catholick church enjoyed its best-being to which it hath jus, and due right, that is, a perfit Reformation in doctrine and discipline, then should generall councell be necessary for the keeping of this best being. And this rule of Discipline given by Christ supposeth a particular Congregation right constituted (say our Brethren) else this rule cannot be necessarily kept. So say we, that it may necessarily be kept in the catholick church, it supposeth the catholick church to be reformed; but Christs church must sayle with a second wind, when she cannot have a first.
Ob. 5. Refusing communion with sister Churches in case of scand…ll is as effectuall a way for edification, as authoritative excommunication of congregations by Presbyteries.
Answ. Excommunication of Congregations is a possible, not an ordinary supposition; but our grounds proceed, when the members of one sister-church offendeth another, if there be no presbyteriall power superi…r to both, that may take order with them, then hath not Christ, in the ordinary supposition of ill administration of the Eldership of a particular Congregation, provided an ecclesiastick way to remove scandalls out of His Kingdome. 2. non-communion is no more then I may do to a brother who offendeth me. 2. it is not so efficacious as a binding and loosing ratified in Heaven. 3. It hath not that speciall promise of Christs church presence walking in the midst of the Golden candle-sticks. 4. It is a secret condemning of the Wisdom of Christ in the institution of excommunication, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord, 1 Cor. 5. 4. that some may learne not to blaspheme, 1 Tim. 1. 20. as if excommunication which is a publick authoritative meane were superfluous, if a private and brotherly non-communion be sufficient, and as efficacious a meane of edification, as Christs mean.
Ob. 6. Either must you complaine to a presbyteriall, provinciall, and nationall Church, before you complaine to that congregation of which the 'Delinquent is a member, or after that you have complained to that congregation; if the former be said, then you cannot tell the presbytery, or superior Courts, but in case of obstinacy; for if you can gaine a Brother, or a Church in a private way, you are not to bring him to a more publickeshame, that is contrary to Christs order, v. 15. If he heare thee, thou hast gained thy brother. And if you tell it the Presbytery and the superior Courts, after you have told it to the Church, whereof he is a member, then you make foure steps, in your reclaiming your brother, where Christ hath made but three.
Ans. Christs order according to the number of steps are three, when the fault is private, scandalls of many Congregations cannot be private, and in publick scandalls we cannot go but to that church which the offence doth immediatly concerne; and if you make foure steps or five according to your grounds, I see no transgression; if 1. You admonish the offender. 2. Before two. 3. Before the half of the Elders. 4. Before all the Elders, and. 5. If you be willing that the Elders bring it to the hearing of the Congregation the number of three precisely are not of positive Divine institution, they are only set downe by Christ to shew we are to labour to gaine our brother in private, before we publish his shame to the Church; and if he commit the offence before two, I think you need not tell him your selfe alone, but before two, and yet the offence is private, if three only be privy to it; seeing it is not yet come to the Church. 3. I much doubt if no faults be punishable by excommunication, but only obstinacy: I thinke the … of incest, parricide and the like deserveth excommunication, though no contumacy be supervenient to such crimes.
Ob. 7. The Church spoken of, Mat. 18. is all one with the House of God, and the House of Prayer, where two or three agree to pray for onething. v. 19. and the place where worshiping is, and word and Sa…raments, that society in which stewards give a portion of the trea… of life to every child of the House, Mat. 24. 45, 1 Cor. 4. 1. 2. … publick Rebukes are tendered to these who sin publickly, before all, that others may feare, 1 Tim. 5. 20. foreign: this must be in the Churches hearing and before the Congregation meet for the Word and Sacraments, for these ordinances of God worke for the edifying both of the party reproved and before all the Congregation, which shall heare and feare; and they worke upon the Heart, as the Word of God doth: now a presbyteriall Church convened in some Elders of divers Congregations, for Church censures and exercise of jurisdiction, is not such a House of God, where are the Word, Sacraments and publick rebukes in the hearing of the Congregation; for the Congregations of all the presbytery being 20. or 30. cannot meet in one Church.
Answ. That onelyonly a Congregation and not the catholick Church is the House of God, I judge, the Word of God cannot teach; as Esai. 56. 5. To them will I give a name within my House. What a name? to be a member of a single Congregation? No, but of a whole visible Church, opposed to the condition of Eu…uches and strangers, v. 4. that were not of the people of God. Cant. 1. 17 Ainsworth an. in can. 3. Cotton expo. on Cant. 3. 4. Alst. in loc. quod …rat veluti conclave Ecclesi… Catholicae.The beames of our House are cedars, this is the catholick Church and Spouse of Christ, Cant. 3 4. I would not let Him goe, till I brought Him to my Mothers House, not a Congregation, but Ierusalem, (saith Ainsworth) the Mother of us all, Cotton, the Catholick Church; Alstedius, Ierusalem, Heb. 3. 2. as Moses was faithfull in all his House. Not a single congregation. 2. This Church here is formally a Ministeriall Church meeting to bind and loose, and excommunicate. Nor is there need to expound it of an House of praying congregationally, but rather 2. 19. of ligatory and authoritative prayers of the Presbytery. 3. Nor is rebuking in a Congregation for the edifying of the hearers, any thing but the execution of the judiciall sentence of a Presbyteriall Church, which we grant may be done in the congregation, whereof the Delinquent is a member, and yet the Church here shall not signifie a congregation convened for the Word and S…crame…ts, except you say, all the people must necessarily be present, yea and authoritative actors to bind and loose, as this Church is expresly called, v. 18. for if the place speake, 1 Tim. 5. 20. of concionall rebuking; then it proveth nothing, that is done by Timothy as a Pastor, virtute potest at is ordinis, and not by the Presbytery, as an act of jurisdiction which is done by the Church, not by one man, if it be meant of juridicall rebuking that is done in a Court, where all the congregation are not present; or if it be done before the congregation in Name of the Presbytery, what is done before the Church foreign before many is not done by those many, as if they were the Church, which our Saviour biddeth us tell, and sure nothing i… here against us.
Ob. 8. The Word Church is never used in the New Testament, for the Presbytery; and if it signifie a Representative Church; the meaning of this, the Angell of the Church of Pergamus might be the Angell of the Church of Pergamus; for the Representative Church is the Eldership of that Church.
Answ. This being the first time that Christ spake of the Church (which the Hebrewes or Iewes who knew his language, behoved to understand) hee could not meane any thing but a representative Church, not the common multitude; and though it were taken other wayes in all Scriptures beside, here it must have this meaning; because he speakth of a court. If he heart not the Church &c, 2 Of a company who bindeth and looseth on Earth. 3. Whose sentence is …atified in Heaven. 4. Binding and loosing are words of highest royall judiciall authority in Scripture, Psal. 105. 20. The King sent and loosed him. 21. He made him Lord over his House, v. 22. to bind his Princes at his pleasure, Psal. 148. 8. To bind their Kings with chaines, and their Nobles with fetters of Iron. v. 9. To execute upon them the judgement written, Mat. 22. 13. Take him and bind him; Pauls being in bands, is to be under the Judges power, Acts 12 6. Peter was bound with two chaines; So the Captaine of the Guard, J…r. 40. 4. and now be hold I loose thee this day from thy chaines. 2. The representative Church is not called the Elders of the representative Church, nor the Angell of the representative Church, but of the collective Church: and therefore there is no Angell of a Church, of a Church here.