The Due Right of Presbyteries, Chapter 10 · Section 1 · Objection 12 – Objection 7
Object. 12. That neerest Church to whom we delate the offence of one single offender, is a single Congregation, else we must over-leap this Church, and tell the Presbytery, contrary to Christs direction; but if he heare not that very Church to whom we tell the businesse, he is excommunicated by that neerest Church, as the words beare; Ergo, that nearest Church being single congregations, may excommunicate, and so it is the first Church, and the Presbyterial Church is not the first Church.
Ans. That neerest Church to whom we delate the offence of the delinquent; first, in the case of wilfull obstinacy; secondly, in the case of consociation of Churches (whom the obstinacy concerneth) is not a congregationall Church, having power of Jurisdiction entirely and compleatly, to whom we must tell the offence, which is the subject of excommuncation. The whole ministeriall Church is that particular Church, together with the Presbytery; and my reason is, there is a Church, Acts 2. consisting of one and thirty hundred and twenty, all called one Church. Now it is said of this Church that they continued, vers. 42. stedfastly in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and prayer; but where did they meet? vers. 46. not onelyonly in the Temple, but dayly from house to house. This whole number hath had v. 42. one Church-fellowship, one Word, one Supper of the Lord; but in one meeting at once? No, but they met from house to house, that is, in any private house, as the phrase is here, foreign, and Acts 20. 20. foreign. Now it is cleare there were Congregations and Churches, when Word and Sacraments were in private houses at Jerusalem, and from house to house in Ephesus; but I hope these were but parts of the Church at Ierusalem and Ephesus, and that they could not meet all in one house. If one therefore complaine of a scandalous person to the Church of Ephesus convened in a house, possibly in an upper Chamber, or elsewhere, this is a meeting that continueth in prayer and breaking of bread, and so hath power of Church-censures to admonish and rebuke, which things belong to that single Congregation or Church in a private house; but it hath not power to censure those that offend the consociated Congregations that meet also foreign, in houses, that is, to excommunicate; and therefore he must complaine to the Elders of Ephesus, …o… we are not to thinke that the false Jewes who were censured by the Apostles of Ephesus, Rev…. 2. 2. did onelyonly infest houses, or one Congregation meet in a house, or that one House-Church, or House-Congregation of Ephesus, did try and censure those that called themselves Iewes, Revel. 2, 2 but Christ giveth the praise of this to the whole Church of Ephesus, who had the power of censures. But it may be said, Ascandalous person may infect two Congregations of two neighbouring Presbyteries, he dwelling neere the borders of both: Ergo, if he be to be excommunicated, not by a Congregation onelyonly, but by the Presbytery, because …e may leaven many consociated Churches; this man is not to be excommunicated, except you tell two Presbyteriall Churches, and so a whole Province; and if he dwell in the borders of two Nations, betwixt England & Scotland, he may leaven two parts of two Nationall Churches; and if the matter concerneth both the Nationall Churches, a higher Church then a Presbytery, to wit a Church made up of two Presbyteries, yea, of parts of two Presbyteries of two Nations, must by divine institution be that Church compleat and entire to which we must complaine, and which hath the power of excommunication. Answ. It is certaine, as the locall limits of a Congregation and the number is not properly of divine institution, onelyonly a convenient number there must be to make up a Congregation; and suppose a man do dwell in the borders of two Congregations, where he is equally distant from the place of meeting of these two Congregations, it is not of divine institution whether he be a member of the one or the other; yet where his parents did willingly associate themselves to such a Congregation, or he himselfe did associate himselfe, and where he received Baptisme, he hath now a relation to that Church as a member thereof, and that Pastor is his Pastor, not any other, as the Elders of the Church of Ephesus (suppose it were one single Congregation) and the Angell of Ephesus is not the Angell of Thyatira; the Angell of Pergamus is not to be called the Angell of Sard…s. So i… the matter in a Presbytery, or two Presbyteries of two distinct Nations (I meane now a classicall Presbytery) therefore these doe make Presbyteries, 1. A convenient number of Churches may be governed by one Colledge, or society of Elders. 2. Having ordinary conversing one with another. 3. Voluntarily upon these two grounds combining themselves in one society; and upon these three the supervenient institution of Christ is grounded. And therefore though it be true, that one dwelling in the borders of two Congregations, of two classicall Presbyteries of two Nations, may equally infect other, and so ex natura rei, and in reality of truth he may leaven both; yet the God of order having made him a combined member now by institution of one Presbyteriall Church, not of the other, he is to be excommunicated by the one, not by the other: For though locall distinction of Congregations and Presbyteries bee not of divine institution; yet supposing consideration be had to, first, a competent number which may be edified; secondly, to ordinary conversing; thirdly, to voluntary combination, either formall, as at the first molding of Congregations and Presbyteries, or tacit and vertuall combination, as in after tracts of time. Gods institution maketh a relation of a particular membership of this man, so to this Congregation or Presbyterie; as that now upon their foresaid suppositions, though he may leaven the neighbouring Presbyteries or Congregations, no lesse then those whereof he is a member, yet may he be censured by those and none others now, in respect of Christs ordinance applied to this Presbyteriall Church in this place, and in this Nation, and not in this.
Object. 13. If the Congregation may admonish and rebuke, then may they excommunicate, for you may not distinguish where the Law of God distinguisheth not: for there is no reason why this or this exercise of jurisdiction should be given them, and not the exercise of all.
Answ. The Law clearly differenceth, Matth. 18. I may rebuke and convince my brother with the consent of three witnesses, which is some degree of Church-censure, especially if a Pastor rebuke before three, yet may not a Pastor excommunicate; the Church doth that. 2. We acknowledge that a Congregation may exercise all jurisdiction in re propria; but excommunication, where Churches are consociated, is not a thing that is proper to a Congregation, but concerneth many.
Obj. 14. We doe not thinke that the Church, Math. 18. 16. is the community its alone, nor the Elders there alone; but the Elders in presence of the community. For even Act. 15. when the Apostles and Elders did give out decrees, they did it before the Church of Ierusalem, and in their presence, V. 22. Then pleased it the Apostles, Elders, and whole Church, to send chosen men to Antioch. For shew us a warrant in the Word, where the Elders there alone did exercise jurisdiction, the people not being convened, and where such a company of Elders there alone is called a Church. The Iudges in Israel judged in the gates before the people; the Elders judged in, or, before the Church, as the eye seeth united to the head, not separated from it.
Answ. Nor doe we exclude these from hearing the Elders exercise jurisdiction, if the matter concerne them; but we aske if the whole people of Israel were obliged by vertue of Divine Institution to be present in the gates of the City when the Judges did sit there, and judge, as our brethren therein say; by a Divine Institution the people are to be present, and to consent; yea and have an honour above consenting, (say they) so as, if the people be not there to have their share of excommunication in their way, then is Christs order violated, because the Church cannot be said to excommunicate and bind and loose on Earth; whereas the Elders onelyonly, without the people, do only bind and loose, and excommunicate; and the Elders (say they) without the people are not the Church, nor can be called the Church, and so the acts of the Elders, judging, and separated from the people are null, because not acts of the Church; seeing the alone Elders are not the Church; & by this reason the Judges could not judge in Israel, except all Israel had been present to consent, for all Israel are bidden to execute judgement in the morning, both the Rulers and people. 2. All the thousands in Ierusalem which made up many Congregations, Isa. 1. 10. 16, 17were not, nor could they, and the whole Congreations of A…tioch, Syria, and Silicia, who were all concerned in conscience no lesse then Ierusalem, be present, and that by obligation of a Divine Institution: and therefore that Church, and that whole Church, Act. 15. 22. can be no other then the whole representative Church. And so we say, both here and Act. 15. the Church representative exerciseth jurisdiction without the people; if people were present, it was by vertue of no Divine Institution: so as if they had not beene present the decrees could not have been called the decrees of the Church: and certainely the comparison of the eye which seeth not but as united to the body, if it be strictly urged, may well prove that the Elders, if the people be not present, even all and every one whom it concerneth, c… no more exercise jurisdiction, or decerne that a scandalous person can be excommunicated, then an eye can see when it is plucked out of the head.
Object. 15. Divines bring an argument from Math. 18. by … logy and proportion from particular congregations, to prove Na…i… nall and generall Synods of the whole Christian world. Ergo, they suppose that a particular Church is the measure and patterne, and first Church which hath power of excommunication,
Answ. Parker, and some few enclining to our brethrens mind doe so, but Divines understand by a Church a Presbyteriall Church, which they make the measure and patterne of Assemblies.
Object. 16 Here is a particular Church, because here is an offended brother who is a member thereof. This particular Church hath Elders, this particular Church is a whole Church, 1 Cor. 14. if the whole Church come together. Jam. 5. Send for the Elders of the Church. It cannot be, that the sick… person is to send for the Elders of a Presbyteriall Church that are so farre removed from the sicke man.
Answ. An hand with five fingers is a whole hand, but not a whole body; a Congregation is a whole Church in its owne kind, whole for those things that concerne it selfe, but not whole and compleat for all jurisdiction. If Iames should bid, send for all the Elders, this consequence should have some colour.
Object. 17. A Presbyteriall Church can be an offending Church, but this, Math. 18. is for an offending brother, if thy brother sinne against thee, &c.
Answ. Christ giveth an instance onelyonly in an offending brother, but the doctrine is for the curing of an offending Church also, for all persons to be gained, Thou hast gained thy brother. We are to gaine Churches even as we are not to offend Churches, 1 Cor. 10. 32.
Object. 18▪ There are no Church-censures meant here, Christs scope is to resolve a case of conscience, how farre we are to goe on with an offending brother before we behave our selves to him as to an heather. …, It is said, if thy brother sinne against thee, Ergo, it is a private offence, not a publique Church-scandall, that deserveth excommunication.
Answ. Christs purpose is to shew how we may gaine to repentance an offending brother, Thou hast gained thy brother. And he will have us use both publique and private meanes to gaine him. 2. It is such a sinne as must be told to the Church, when obstinacy to the Church is added, and therefore at length it is a publique scandall and so deserveth excommunication.
Ob. 2. Reprove him, that is, convince him, but is it not reproving to be brought before the Church? must I reprove every one who offendeth me, even the King? it is a mans glory to passe by an offence; and Salomon for biddeth us to over-heare our servant cursing us.
Answ. God hath made every man his brothers keeper, and we are not to suffer sin in our brother, but in any case to rebuke him, Lev. 19, 17. the King is not every mans brother whom he is to use familiarly, as the brother meant of here; though Kings should be rebuked by their Nobles, and by Pastors. 2. We are to passe over offences, that is, to forgive those that sin against us, and not to be too curious to know who reproacheth us, as Salomons meaning is to be taken, and to be willing to forgive, and yet to labour to gaine our brother by rebukes; one act of love fighteth not with another.
Ob. 3. Tell the Church, is not meant of a Christian Church, but he speaketh of a thing present, but there was no Christian Church as yet.
Answ. It followeth not, it is a rule especially for time to come, though Christ speake after this manner, as if it were a thing present.
Ob. 4. It is not much that the word, Church, signifieth onelyonly in this place a company of godly men, witnesses of the mans offence; for foreign signifieth onelyonly once, Joh. 3. the wind. 2. Christ spake in the Syriak and Gnedah, Psal. 22. Gnedah a company, or many Buls have comp…ss…d m…, 1 San. 19. a company of Prophets, Gnedah. The meaning is, if he be not convinced by the testimony of two, rebuke him before many.
Answ. It is not like, that seeing in the Chapter preceding he s…ake of the Church, as of a company to whom the Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven were given, and that here he speaking of a Church which hath authoritative power to bind and loose, that Christ hath any such …nsolent meaning of the word Church, as onelyonly to note many Christians. 2. The Syriak is not the Originall, but the Greeke.
Ob. 5. The witnesses sp…ken of here are not witnesses of the offences, but of the reproofe, and therefore there is nothing here of a judiciall proc…s.
Answ. Yea, but these witnesses are witnesses both of the reproote, and of that obstinacy, for the which the mans sinnes are bound in Heaven.
Ob. 6. Let him be to thee as an Heathen. He saith not, let him be to the C…urt as an Heathen, and therefore here is no shadow of any Court.
Ans. It is an ordinary hebraisme, when the second person is put for the third, especially in Laws, as, Thou shalt not send him away empty. Also, Thine eye shall not spare him. Also, Then shalt out away evill out of Israel. And therefore here is a reall Court, it the context be considered. Christ speaketh so, Let him be to thee as an Heathen; in opposition to that which he was called to be, for his obstinacy; to wit, a brother, if thy brother offend. And how weake is this? Let him be to thee as an Heathen. Ergo, He should not be to the Church as an Heathen. The contrary consequence is most necessary, if he be to thee as an Heathen, because he is now convinced of obstinacy before two brethren, and before all the Church. Ergo, these two brethren and the whole Church are to count him as an Heathen, for the offended brother hath gone along all the way in the unanimous judgement, and a consort of mind, with both the witnesses and the Church; Ergo, this obstinate man is the same to the Church that he is to the offended brother, that is, he is to both as an Heathen and a Publican, and both are to abstaine from eating or brotherly conve si…g with him, as the Jewes would not familiarly converse with the heathen, and as Paul commandeth 1 Cor. 5. 10, 11. that with an excommunicated man, we are not to eate.
Ob. 7. Whatsoever you bind on earth, is in good sence, that he who offendeth any little one that believeth, his sinne is bound in Heaven, as the friends of Job c. 42. were not accepted of God, till they made their peace first with Iob, yet Iob had no power of the Keyes over his friends, and an offering is not accepted, while first the offerer be reconciled to his broth…r, and so his sinnes are bound in Heaven, and yet one brother hath not a jurisdiction over another.
Answ. Binding and loosing in this, Chap. 18. must be the same with binding and loosing, Chap. 16. 19. but expresly their binding and loosing is by the Church. power of the Keyes, and is all one with that authoritative power of remitting and retaining sins …. 20. 21, 22 23. and in Scripture the keyes, and binding, and loosing, are never ascribed but to Stewards, Officers, Princes, and Judges, who have power of jurisdiction, as I have proved already; and therefore that which is spoken of Jobs friends, and of the offerer not reconciled to his brother, Come not up to the point, for Iobs friends doe not binde on earth, and the offended brother is a more private man destitute of the keyes, and of all power of j…risdiction.