The Due Right of Presbyteries, Chapter 10 · Section 2 · Objection 2

The Due Right of Presbyteries · Chapter 10 · Section 2 · Objection 2

p. 453It is objected by Master Mather, that if a Church in an Island by Divine institution, and so this first founded congregation at Jerusalem which did meete in Salomons porch, had once an entire power of Iurisdiction within it selfe, though in an extraordinary p. 454case. 1. The case is ordinary, as in the Dominion of Wales, there is scarce a congregation to be found within twenty or thirty miles. 2. Suppose the case were extraordinary and rare, may they violate the ordinary rules of Christ? for so some may thinke and say, that though according to ordinary Rules, Baptisms and the Lords Supper must be dispensed only by men and by Ministers, yet in the want of these, the one may be dispensed by a Woman, or Mid-wife, and both of them by such as are no Ministers.

Answ. We thinke a Ministery and Discipline more necessary to a Congregation in a remote Island, or to the Church of Ierusalem before they increase to such a number as cannot meet for their numerous multitude in one Congregation, then the Sacraments, when there be no Ministers to dispense them. 1. That the Church be so in the Island its alone, may possibly be extraordinary, but that in such a case they have the Word preached and entire power of Discipline whole and entire within themselves to excommunicate scandalous persons is not extraordinay, when there be no consociated Churches, whom excommunication concerneth, that are in danger to be scandalized, for it floweth connaturally from a Church to which agreeth the essence of a Church, to exercise Jurisdiction over all its owne members, if there be no more consociated with that Church, that is by accident and an extraordinary exigence of Gods providence. As a master of a Family is to do his duty to educate his children in the feare of God; but if God take all his children from him by death, he doth not transgresse the ordinary rule of educating his children in the feare of God, when hee hath none. This argument supposeth that a Congregation hath no power of excommunication at all either compleat or incompleat, as the Mid-wife hath no power to Baptize at all either compleat or incompleat: neither doth a Congregation transgresse any rule of Christ at all when it exerciseth entire power of censures within it selfe, whereas there be no consociated Churches to share with it in that power. A Congregation is capable of entire Jurisdiction, because it is a Church; But a woman in no case is capable of administrating Baptisme, or the Lords Supper, except shee were extraordinarily p. 455and immediatly inspired to be a prophetesse, but for the exercise of entire power of Jurisdicton by a Congregation in a r…mote Island, I hope, it hath no such need of immediate inspiration. 2. There is no such morall necessity of the Sacraments, as there is of the Ministery of the word and consequently of some use of the Keys, where a scandalous person may infect the Lords flock. For where vision ceaseth the people perish, but it is never said, where Baptisme ceaseth the people perish, and therefore uncalled Ministers in case of necessity, without ordination or calling from a presbytery may preach, and take on them the holy Ministery and exercise power of Jurisdiction, because the necessity of the Soules of a Congregation, in a remote Island requireth so, but I hope no necessity in any the most extraordinary case requireth that a Midwife may Baptize, or that a private man remaining a private man may celebrate the Lords Supper to the Church without any calling from the Church.

But Mr. Mather, if the power of Iurisdiction flow immediately and Mr. Mather, & Mr. Thomson 1…. p. 4 5:necessarily from the essence of a Church, and a congregation be essentially a Church, then this power agreeth to all Churches, whether consociated, or not consociated, and without respect of what neighbours they have, whether many, or few, whether any, or none. 2. A congregation its alone cannot have sole power of jurisdiction, and then be deprived of it, when God sendeth neighbour Churches; for then neighbouring Churches which are given for helpe, should be given for losse, the contrary whereof Ames Ames Medull. Theol. l. 1. c. 39. sect. 37.saith. Nor doe Synods (saith he) constitute a new forme of a Church.

Answ. Power of Iurisdiction floweth from the essence of a congregation in an Iland; Ergo, a totall and compleat power of jurisdiction, floweth from the essence of a Church or congregation consociated; it followeth no wayes, so a pastor of a Congregation hath as a pastor power to rebuke sinne, and to administrate the Sacraments, Ergo, when three pastors are added to help him, he hath the sole power of rebuking sinne, and the sole and entire power to administrate the Sacraments, and none of these three pastors hath power with him, it followeth not; and because these three pastors are added to help him and p. 456their pastorall power added to him is cumulative and auxiliary, but not privative or destructive of his pastorall power, therefore the first pastor suffereth losse by the addition of these three to him: who will say this? our Brethren do conceive the power of Congregations, in its kind and essence, to be Monarchicall, so as if any power from consociated Congregations be added thereunto, the Congregations power Monarchicall is d minished; and the essence of it changed. 2. Compleat and entire power to rule both the Congregation and the Members of consociated Churches in so far as they do keep communion with that Congregation, and may either edifie, or scandalize them, floweth not immediatly and necessarily from the essence of every Congregation even in remote Islands not consociated with others, that we never said. 3. A power to governe well, and according to the rule of the word added to another power to governe well and according to the word, is an auxiliary power and no way destrective of that power, to which it is added, indeed a power to governe well, added to a power of male administration in a Congregation is distructive of that power, and reason it should be so, because Christ never gave any such power of male administration to a Congregation; but a power of right governing, added to a power of right governing is neither destructive thereof, nor doth it constitute a new forme of a Church, or a Church-power, but only inlarge the pr…existent form to extend it selfe farther, for the edification of more soules.

But (saith Mr. Mather) if it be against the light of nature that the adverse party be the sole judge which must be, if the s…le Mr. Mather, and Mr. Thomson ib. p. 5.power of Iurisdiction be in the Congregation (as we grant in an extraordinary case, when a Congregation is in an Island its alone) and so it shall be lawfull for a single Congregation to doe that which is against all equity and the very light of nature, it must then follow that it is not against the light of nature that a Congregation (though consociated with other Congregations) have entire jurisdiction within it selfe.

Answ. None of us do teach that it is against the light of nature that the adverse party be the judge, it might fall out in a generall councell lawfully convened, from which there is no provocation, p. 457yea and in a nationall councell, (for all councels may erre) the adverse party may judge, as it was a lawfull councell according to a Church-constitution that condemned Christ of blisphemy, and they were also his enemies; but we teach that it is not congruous to the wisdome of Christ, nor to the light of nature, that Christ should have appointed all the ordinary Churchcourts, so many thousand congregations, who may rather erre then extraordinary and higher Synods, to be the onelyonly ordinary judges in their owne cause; Nor doth any thing more follow from this argument, that when there is one congregation its alone in an Iland destitute of the helpe of consociated Churches (which is a defect of an extraordinary providence of Christ in that one singular exigence) that that congregation shall be both judge and party in its owne cause, if we suppose that one Micaiah shall contend for the truth, and all the rest of the Prophets and people of that congregation to be against the truth, and to judge and condemne one man, who seeketh the Lord in truth.

It is a wonder to me that Thessalonica was but one single congregation, all hearing one Word, partakers of one Lords Supper at one Table; yet the Apostle ascribeth to them that which is a note to worthy Baynes of the numerous multitude of the Church of Ierusalem, from whence went the Word of God to all M Mather and Thomson c. 3. p. 33, 35.the world, 1 Thes. 1. 8. For from you sounded out the Word of the Lord, not onelyonly in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad. I deny not what Mr. Mather and Thomson say, but 5000 may meet to heare the word, and many thousands were gathered together Luke 12. to heare Christ; but these reverend brethren doe leave out, 1. The inconvenience of thronging so all at once; for, they trode one upon another. 2. Christ preached not to all those thousand at once, for it is expresly said, v. 1. He began to say to his Disciples. So Christ refusing to preach to such a disorderly confluence of people, who could not heare, and his doctrine being all for his Disciples, the very Sermon being preached to his Disciples onelyonly, Matth. 10. 2, 3, 4, &c. and the Parable of the rich man v. 22. he applieth to his Disciples, Then he said to his Disciples, therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, &c. It evidenceth to p. 458me that Christ condemneth a numerous multitude in one congregation to heare at once. And whereas Chrysostome saith, 5000 persons did heare his voyce, at once, in one congregation, by meanes of Scaffolds and Galleries; and Mr. Mather is willing to yeeld eight thousand an hundred and twenty were all assembled in one place to Chrysostome on Math. 24. M. Mather. c. 2 pag. 34.Matt 24heare the Word, and that all the multitude of converts at Ierusalem were together in Salomons porch, Act. 5. 12. I grant three thousand could heare one at once; but alas, this is a great uncertainty for independent congregations. But 1. this is to be proved that eight thousand (Mr. Mather hath not added many other multitudes mentioned, Act. 5. 14. Act. 6. 1. v. 7. and elsewhere) did meet daily in the Temple. 2. Daily and ordinarily from house to house. 3. To celebrate the Lords Supper daily in the Temple and in every private house (there were need of many Scaffolds and Galleries) to sit at one Table. 4. To make one judicature, and have more then power of consenting in Church. censures, as our brethren prove the whole Church of beleevers had, from Matth. 18. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 4. Act. 15. 22. 1 Cor. 14. 23. for my part I thinke such a miraculous Church cannot be the first mould of independent Churches to be established congregations meeting in one place, for to be edified by word, seales and censures. Yea Mr. Mather will have the whole convening as one independent congregation Act. 6. 2, 3, 4. and the many myriades or thousands of beleeving Jewes, Act. 21. 21, 22, 23. to meet as one congregation. Certainly the Apostles practice must be our rule, and then five hundred or a thousand being so farre beneath ten or eight thousand, may wel seem a number for fewnesse not competent; and what shall we then thinke of seven onelyonly, or ten? Now let it be considered, if Rome being granted to be one Church, and in which to me there was a congregation and Church in the very family of Aquila and Priscilla, Rom. 16. v. 5. and whose faith was spread through all the world, Rom. 1. 8. so as famous writers say the halfe of the City beleeved, if they be but one single congregation meeting all in one place? ard to me it is cleare, there was a single congregation in the very house of Aquila and Priscilla, Act. 18. 1, 2, 3 4. v. 26 27, 28. and that Paul preached when he was there daily, beside his disputing in the Synagogue; when he was at Rome there was a Church p. 459at his house, Rom. 16. 5. So Diodati saith on the place, That the Church at Aquila his house was the assembly of beleevers, who assembled themselves in their house; for there were divers small assemblies in one and the selfe same City, 1 Cor. 16. 19. Col. 4. 15. Greet the Church that is at their house. Col. 1. 15. Salute Nymphus, and the Church at his house. Where Paul speaketh of believers only in a house, he giveth them not the name of a Church, as Ro. 16. 10. Salute them that are of Aristobulus houshold. V. 11. Greet them that are of the houshold of Narcissus. Phil. 4. 22. All the Saints salute you, especially those that are of Caesars house. I desire to know a reason of the difference of this Grammar, if there were no constituted Church in the house of Aquila and Priscilla, why in one Chapter the Apostle should change the phrase? and I desire know what reason we have to goe from the literall meaning of the word, that is, a Church at Aquila his house, as well as a Church at C…rinth. For whereas some say that Rom. 1. 6. he saluteth not all of the house of Narcissus, but onelyonly v. 11. those which are is the Lord; 1. this exception is not brought concerning the house of Aristobulus, v. 10. 2 This exception confirmeth what I say, because where there is not a Church and an institured Society and politicall Church-meeting in the house of any of the Saint, there they are called beleevers of such a house, and not a Church at such a house. 3. This phrase foreign used Rom. 16. 5. 1 Cor. 16. 19. Col. 4. 19. Phile. 2. must be the same with the Saints assemblea for the Word & Sacraments. Act. 5. 42. in the Temple, foreign from house to house daily, and it must be allope with Act. 2. 46. Where they continued daily in the Temple with one accord, foreign, and breaking bread from house to house; and all one with the assembly of Disciples Act 20. 7. where they assembled for the Word and Sacrament of the Supper, especially seeing as the learned acknowledge, the Christians could not have Temples or houses built for the publique assemblies of the Saints as Rome and Corinth, but they met in private houses; which seeing it cannot be denied, then were there at Rome two Churches at least; one at the house of Aquila and Priscilla, 1 Cor. 16. 15. and another also pertaining to the rest of the Saints at Rome.

And this saith, that if there had beene but one single Congregation p. 460at Rome, whereas one family had a Church, c. 165. and so many illustrious families received the faith of Christ, it is like their faith could not have been published through all the world, Rom. 1. 8. if the Christian faith had not had a greater prevalency in comparison of the false God… then worshipped at Rome, then to be in one poore single meeting.

And for the Church of Corinth, I humbly conceive they could not be one single congregation, if these foure circumstances be considered: 1. The multitude of beleevers there. 2. The multitude of Teacher…. 3. The diversity of Tongues. 4. A Presbyteriall meeting of Prophets, 1 Cor. 14. For the first, Act. 18. 9. Many of the Corinthians believed, and were baptized. Now if we shall believe that the Apostolique Church conjoyned preaching and baptizing, the Word and the Sacraments; and that the Apostles baptized none but those to whom they preached, I conceive it cannot be denied but there were divers assemblies for the Word and the Sacrament; for Paul, 1 Cor. 14. 15. Baptized n…ne but Crispus and Gaius, and the houshold of Stephanus; it many were baptized, other Pastors, not Paul baptized them, 1 Cor. 1. 14, 15, 16. and so they were baptized in other assemblies, then in those in which Paul baptized. 2. It is cleare that to comfort Paul whose spirit could not but be heavy, as you may gather from Rom. 7. 2, 3. because he was Act. 18. 6, 7. resisted so in his ministery by the blasphemies of the Jewes rejecting the Gospel, that he shooke his rayment on them, and said, your blood be upon your owne heads, I am cleane; from henceforth I will goe to the Gentiles; The Lord saith unto him in a vision, 9. Be not afraid, but speake, and hold not thy peace, 10. For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee, for I have much people in this City. 11. And he continued there a yeere and six moneths, teaching the Word amongst them. Now let this in equity be considered, if the gaining of one single congregation which meet for the Word, Sacraments, 1 Cor. 11. 20, 21, 22. 1 Cor. 14. 19. and also to acts of Church-censures 1 Cor. 5. 4. as our brethren teach, which could not exceed one thousand conveniently in a setled and daily meeting, had first been much people; secondly, much, in comparison of thousands of the Jewes who rejected the Lord Jesus, as may be gathered from comparing Act. 18. 5, 6. and Act. 13. 43, 46, 47. with Act. 21. …0. p. 461where it is said, many thousands of the Jewes believed, for the greatest part of the Iewes rejected Christ, as is cleare 1 Thess. 2. 14. 15. 16. and so many more thousands behoved to reject Christ then believed? Now what comfort could Paul have had in this, that many thousands of the Jewes rejected the Gospell, and yet all the much people that God had in Corinth were but fo…soot… to the number of one compleat Assembly of a single Congregation, which did meet in a private House, for the celebration of the Lords Supper? For Piscator with all our Divines, 1 Cor. 14 teach that their were no capacious Temples in Corinth, where they did meet for Gods worship. 2. Judge if one single Congregation (for the Congregations planted by the Apostles behoved to be competent, and convenient for edification, that all might heare and all partake of one bread, 1 Cor. 10. 16. and one Table of the Lord, v. 21.) could necessitate Paul to stay at Corinth a yeare and six moneths, when as Paul by one Sermon made in a certaine mans House named Justus did bring many to believe and be Baptized, Acts 18 7. 8. And these many might conveniently make a Congregation beside the much people that God had there, v. 10. not yet called, but yet they were, as interpreters say, the Lords people, by Gods decree of predestination. 2. The multitude of Teachers proveth that their were more Congregation then one; for 1. It is incongruous to the Wisdome of Christ to raise up many reapers, where the harvest is narrow, many builders for one congregationall House. 2. It is contrary to Christs practice, who sent not twelve Pastors to one place, but sent them out two by two, that all might find worke: now can we thinke, that where God had much people, as Acts 18. 10. that he would have hundreths of Prophets to be hearers and one at once to speak to one single Congregation? to what end gave the Lord a Talent to such a huge multitude of prophets? that they might be oftener hearers, then they could be in actuall prophecying? It is not like. 3. Whereas it is said, 1 Cor. 14. 31. you may all prophecy one by one, that all may learne, and all may be comforted, Di…datus saith, yee may all prophecy, namely by course and in diverse or severall Assemblies. And Estius saith the same, to wit, that these Prophets were to prophecy in diverse p. 462assemblies; and for this it is that he saith, v: 34. let your women foreign keepe silence foreign, in the Churches; Ergo, he supposeth there were more Congregations then one at Corinth; Nor is there reason to say with some, he speaketh of Churches in the plurall number, because he made mention of all the Churches of the Saints in the verse going before, for 1. He saith, your Wom…n, let them be silent: now if he had not meant that there were many Congregations at Corinth, he would not have forbidden it in their Women, but of all Women, and it is knowen there was a great abuse of spirituall gifts in Corinth, so as women did prophecy in the assemblies, and this the Apostle forbiddeth in their Churches in the pl… all number. And I pray you what roome or place was there for such a multitude of Prophets to edifie the Churches in one private House? for there were no Temples where they might meet at Corinth. 4. If Kenchrea be comprehended under the Church of Corinth in this Epistle, and the Apostle writing to the Corinthians wrote also to this Church called Romans 16. 1. The Church at Kenchrea, then have we more Congregations then one at Corinth. Now the learned teach that Kenchrea was a Sea-port or Harbour of the Corinthians, aaOrigen, prefa. in ….Origen saith it was a place neer to Corinth. Off the Aegean Sea one the East, and as bbStrabo. l. 18.Strabo saith, ad sinum Saronicum, as Lechea was the other port. See ccPlinius nat. Hist. l. 4. c. 4.Plinius. And the multitude of Teachers (I humbly conceive) which did preach at Korinth may be gathered from 1 Cor. 1. 5. 1 Cor. 4. 6. 15. 1 Cor. 1. 12, 13. 1 Cor. 3. 4, 5. 1 Cor. 14. where there are multitudes of these who were all gifted to edifie others, as those who spake with Tongues, wrought miracles, had the gift of healing. And so many Prophets that Paul saith, v. 31. for yee may all prophecy, that all may lear…e, and all may be comforted, if these (all) who were to learne, and to be comforted be the much people which God had in this City Acts 18. 9. and this (all) to be instructed and comforted, I have no farther to say. And 3. I can hardly believe that the end why God sent the gift of diverse tongues amongst them was to e…ifie one single Congregation: for it is true that our Brethren say, that 1 Corinthia…s vers. 22. 14. Tongues are for a signe, not to them that believe, p. 463but to them that believe not. But that which they hence collect is most groundlesse, to wit, that therefore the gift of Tongues, according to its genuine end and intention is onelyonly a miracle for the gaining of Heathen to the Faith, and not intended to edifie the Church and people of a strange Language, after they are brought in to the Church, and therefore there is no ground for people of divers congregations to be instructed by strange Tongues.

Ans. The whole current of Divines answer, (as also Estius observeth on the place) Tongues are given especially for infidels, ut novitate mirac…li convertantur, that by the newnesse of the miracle they may be converted, though also Tongues serve to instruct these who believe, and consequently; say I, that the Churches of divers Tongues may be edified. And let me adde that strange Tongues were a mixt miracle. I say mixt, because both they were given to be a miraculous signe to assure Heathen, that the sending downe of the Holy Ghost was a miraculous fruit of Christs Ascension to Heaven; who promised that when he was ascended to the Father, he would send the other comforter, as is cleare Acts 2, 89, 10, 11 12. and also it was so a miracle that Paul proveth that it is fruitlesse and wanteth the naturall and genuine end of speech and an humane voyce in the Church, if it edifie not, as 1. Tongues edifie not the Church, except you speak to these who know the Language, or except there be an Interpreter, for other ways the speaker with Tongues shall be as a Barbarian to these to whom …e speaketh, and they as Barbarians to him 1 Cor. 14. 6. 7. 8 9, 10, 11. 2 He that speaketh with Tongues is to pray that he may interpret, v. 13. That he may edifie the Church. 3. He that speaketh with Tongues, if he be not understood, is fruitlesse and uselesse to others, because the hearers can neither say amen to his preaching, nor to his praying, v. 14. 15, 16, 17. (4) except a man teach others, his gift of Tongues teacheth not the Church, v. 18, 19 10. (5) strange Tongues in the Church when the hearers understand not, are a judgement of God rather then an edifying of the Church, v. 21. & c. hence it is more then evident, that the edifying end, why the Lord had raised up these in the Church p. 464of Corinth, (which was now a planted and watered Church, 1 Cor. 1. 1. ch. 3 5, 6, 7. and a building, the foundation whereof was layd, v. 10. 11, 12, &c.) was that the Church might be edified. And so the gift of Tongues, as touching its edifying use and end, was fruitlesse, and of no effect; yea as we teach against Papists, unlawfull in Gods publick worship, except there had been diverse assemblies and Congregations, which understood these Tongues. Nor can it be said, that all in Corinth understood Greeke. And therefore these of divers Tongues might be understood by all: for 1. This layeth a ground that there was no Tongue a strange Tongue, but the Greeke Tongue. 2. That all speaking with strange Tongues was well understood, whereas the Apostle sayth the contrary, v. 10. 11, 12. v. 16. v. 23. That many spake with Tongues in that Church, and yet the hearers could not say amen to them, nor be edified by their preaching or praying, v. 19. if then strange Tongues were gifts of God given to that planted Church to edifie these who believed, and to edifie the Church, as well as to gaine heathen, there must needs be divers Congregations at Corinth, and therefore I cannot but thinke that weak which Mr. Mather; and Mr. Thomson say; But the Mr. Mather, Mr. Thomson answ. t… Mr. H…. l… c. 5. …. …7.place, 1 Cor. 14. 23. That speaketh of the whole Church comming together to one place doth unavaydably prove, that Corinth had their meetings, and not by way of distribution into severall congregations, but altogether in one congregation: and it is plaine, that though they had variety of Teachers and Prophets. yet they all used to c…e together to one place.

I answ. 1. The place, 1 Cor. 14. 23. if the whole Church come together, &c. doth evince the contrary, for the Apostle doth there reason ab absurdo, from a great incongruity; it were incongruous (saith he) and ridiculous that the whole Church of Corinth, and all their gifted men speaking with diverse Tongues (so that they could not be understood by Infidells) should all convene in one place, and speake with divers Tongues, for the unlearned and the unbelievers would say they were madde; therefore hee presupposeth that the whole Church should not all come to one place, but that they should so come to one place v. 24. in diverse assemblies, and p. 465all prophecy in a Tongue knowen to the Infidells, as the unbeliever being convinced and judged of all the Prophers. he might fall down on his face, and worship God, and say, God is in you of a truth. 2. The whole Church is not the whole, much people of Corinth that believed, that did ordinarily meet in one place; the Text saith no such thing, and that is to be proved and not taken as granted, and so the consequence is most avoydable; for 1. You must say that at any one Assembly, all the Prophets and Teachers of Corinth did prophecy, for the Text saith, v. 24. He is convinced of all, he is judged of all. Whereas the consequence should be absurd, it should be a longesome and we… some meeting; for Interpreters say they meet in diverse Assemblies, and the Text saith expresly, v. 29. That at one meeting they prophecied, but two or three: now if two only prophecied in one Congregation at one Assembly, as this Text will warrant clearely, then how doth this whole Church consisting of all the Believers of Corinth, a… is supposed by our Brethren, convince the infidell, so as it may beare this sense, v. 24. He is convinced of all, he is judged of all? can two Prophets be all Prophets? And how doth it be…re this v. 24. But if all prophesie, &c? surely, for my part, I think it must unavoydably be said, that they all prophecied distributively and in severall Congregations. And it is very probable to me, that as women prophecied, so many prophecied at once, and that the Apostle correcteth their abuse, when he will have them to prophecy by course, v. 27. And that too numerous a multitude did prophecy in one Assembly, and therefore the Apostle reducing this Church to order, retrencheth the number v. 29. to two or three, and so this which he saith v. 31. for you may all prophecy one by one, &c. must unavoydably be understood distributively in divers Congregations and Assemblies, and so must we take the words where it is said, v. 24. all the Prophets convince, all judge, distributively; and the whole Church v. 23. by this cannot beare this sense, that the whole Church of Corinth comprehending the the whole Prophets. Teachers, and …elievers, did all collectively meet in one single Assembly. And that the much people which the Lord had at Corinth, Acts 18. 9. was one society partaking p. 466of one Table of the Lord, in one private house, and all in one consistory judging and censuring and excommunicating.

Lastly, I thinke (with reverence of the learneder) that these Prophets were a Colledge of Teaching Prophets whose gifts were imployed in edifying severall Congregations; only some, say they, were Prophets extrordinarily inspired. 2. They were not Prophets of the Church of Corinth, and therefore are not any patterne of a Presbytery, but I answer. 1. Though they were Prophets extraordinarily inspired, yet do they prove well some ordinary acts of a Presbytery, and that 2. They were Prophets of that same Church of Corinth, I conceive; For they do here Prophecy according to the analogy of Faith, and that they have common with Prophets now adayes. 2. They are by these same rules regulated that our Pastors are now. 3. They exercise these same acts of Jurisdiction which Pastors do now exercise. 1. They are to prophecy in a knowen Tongue, v. 19. 20, 21, 22▪ and that the edification and comfort of the Church, …. 31. even as P…stors now adayes, only the internall principle, to wit, the insused gift of prophecying made them extraordinary Prophets, in fi…ri, as our Prophets become Prophets by ordinary industry and studies, in furi: but in facto esse, and according to the substance of the acts of prophecying, these extraordinary Prophets, and our ordinary Prophets and Pastors differ not in specie and nature. As the Eyes put in the man borne blind Ioh. 9. and these Eyes which we suppose he was capable of from his mothers wombe, and the Wine miraculously made out of water by Iesus Christ, Ioh. 2. and the Wines that grew in Iudea, according to their manner of production and in fieri differed, but in facto esse they were of the same nature. Hence you see in the Text these Prophets are every way regulated as ordinary prophets, and as the Prophets of the Church of Corinth. 1 Because it is acknowledged by all Interpreters that the scope of the Chapter is to prescribe what is order and decency in the publick worship in the Church of Corinth; as the last verse saith, v. 40. let all things be done decently and in order, and consequently how these Prophets should edifie the Church of Corinth, v. 4. 12 16, 17. (…) p. 467That these Prophets should not speake in publick the language of Barbar…an, v. 11, 12. to the which the hearer could not say Amen, v. 16. and this way are our ordinary Prophets regulated, except that Papists will but say service in Latine, (3) A direction is put on the Prophets, on these who speake with Tongues, that they be not children in understanding, and that they be, in malice, as children, but as concerning understanding, men, v. 20. which agreeth well to Prophets as they are ordinary Pastors. (4) What more ordinary, then the comming together of the whole Church for prophecying, v. 23. 24. and convincing of unbelievers? a… 25. (5) the Prophets are to be limited to a way of speaking to edification, as he who speaketh with Tongues, who must speake by an Interpreter, or then be silent in the Church, v. 27. 28. (6) These Prophets, a… our ordinary Prophets, must speake orderly, and that but one at once, to eschew confusion, v. 29. (7) What they speake is to be judged and put under censure, for the whole Colledge must judge, v. 29. 8. (8) And as the women are here put under a rule, when to speak, and when to be silent, v. 34. 35. So are these prophets, all which, and divers other rules doe regulate our ordinary Prophets, which clearely saith to me, that this is a patterne of a Colledge of ordinary Prophets under that same policy and rules of policy as the ordinary Colledge of Pastors at Corinth, and 3. To this Colledge agreeth a power dogmaticall of judging, and censuring the Doctrine of the Prophets delivered, 29. let the Prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. This is not a power of judging that every Christian hath. For foreign saith Piscator, doth relate to the Prophets who are to judge; But (as I take it) a propheticall judging, which may, by good anology, warrant the juridicall power of a presbytery to judge and examine these who preach the word, that there creep not in false Teachers into the Church.

And for Ephesus. The huge number of Believers and yet making one Church, Rev. 2. 2. saith that Ephesus was a presbyteriall Church as many circumstances evince, Acts 19. for. 1. Paul established twelve men Prophets who spake with Tongues, and prophecied. To what end did Paul set up twelve Labourers at p. 468Epheseus, with diverse languages, but to establish divers Assemblies? did they all meet dayly in one house with Paul to heare him, and turned silent Prophets themselves, when they were indeed with the gift of Tongues to speake to the edification of Assemblies of divers tongues? It is not credible. 2. And v. 10. Paul continued here for the space of two yeares, (and was this for one competent number, who did all meet in one private house? how can this be credible?) 3. All that dwelt in Asia heard the Word of the Lord Iesus, both Jewes and Greeks, then in great Ephesus there behoved to be more then one Congregation. 4. The great miracles done by Paul. v. 11. 12. to admiration of all, and to procure the imitation of false Prophets. 5. The name of the Lord Iesus was magnified by the Iewes and Greeks that dwelt at Ephesus. 6. There behoved to be a great work of God, when great Ephesus turned to the faith. It is, 1. Remarkable that Christ the wisdome of the father directed his Apostles to the most famous Cities, to cast out their nets, for conquering of soules to Christ, as in Indea they came to Samaria, and to great Jerusalem; in Syria to Antiochia, in Grecia to Corinth, in Italy to Rome, in Asia the lesse to Ephesus; now the Scripture is cleare the Apostles, that ever we read, planted but one Church, as is cleare in one City in Ierusalem, in Antiochia, in Corinth, in Rome, in Ephesus: and observe, the basis and prime principle of our Brethrens independent Churches doth all ly upon this meer conjecture, that the Lords Grace did restrict and limit the fruits of the triumphing Gospell, in the hands of the Apostles the conquerors of the World to Iesus Christ, that they planted but in the greatest Cities they came to (and they appoynted Elders in every City) onelyonly one poore single Congregation, as a patterne of all independent Churches, and this consisted of no more then could meet conveniently in one House for Word, Sacraments, one Lords Table, and one Ecclesiasticall Church-court for censures. Certainly this Church being a patterne to all instituted Churches, could not exceed the number of a thousand men, or two thousand Believers, and this is a greater number by some hundreds, I am sure, then can make a competent Church-meeting, and I hope no man could say we erred, if we should now make p. 469eight or ten thousand one Congregation in ordinary, as our Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Herle. c. 3. p. 34.Brethren say the first Congregationall Church of Jerusalem wa…. B…t. 2. This City was the mother City and flower of Asia. 2. It was noble, because of Diana's Temple, the length whereof was foure hundred and twenty five foot, the breadth two hundred and twenty foot, the pillars were an hundred and twenty seven, the height of every pillar was sixty foot. Amongst which there were thirty pillars most curiously carded. Others say they were an hundred and thirty seven pillars made by severall Kings, the Temple was built by all Asia for the space of two hundred and twenty, (some say) fourty yeares. It was inlarged by Alexander; And thither came all Asia the lesse to the Temple of great Diana. For they had no other Religion, here dwelt the proconsull of Asia, as saith aaPhilostratus l. 8. in vit. Apollonii.Philostratus, It abounded with artes and Sciences, Philosophers and Orators, bbChrysostom. in praesa. ad Ephes.Chrysostom saith that in it were Pythagaras, Parmenides, Zeno, Democritus, it was compassed with excellent Cities, and noble for Asiatick commodities, see ccPlinius l. 36 c. 14:Plinius, and ddAlexander ab Alexandro. l. 3. c. 20.Alexander Neopolitanus, eeIgna …i Epist. 14.Ignatius highly commendth it from the purity of the Gospell. All this I relate not as an unpertient digression, but to shew that the Gospell behoved to be more mighty here; then that Paul set up but one single Congregation and an Eldership congregationall only, Acts 20. 28. v. 36. 37. Especially consider what Beasts Paul fought with at Ephesus, for here were many Jewes who opposed him. 2. All the multitude, by the instigation of Demetrius, avowing that their Diana was the goddesse not only of Ephesus but of all Asia; yet God made the word so mightily to prevaile, for v. 10. Paul remaining there by the space of two yeares, all that dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jewes and Greeks. I aske how it could stand with Pauls universall commission to preach to Iew and Gentiles, 1 Cor. 9. 20. 21. as an Apostle, to …em…ine neere three years at Ephesus for one single congregation, and the erecting of one Congregationall presbytery? 3. We see how zealously mad they have been on their Religion, when they had such a curious Temple for Diana. And 4. Demetrius and the crafts had their living by making silver shrines to Diana. And 5. What power of the Gospell it behoved to be, which p. 470made their learned men who used curious arts, to submit to the Gospell and bring their Books and burne them before all men? and the sums of these Books extended to a great sum of mony, the common people ordinarily follow the learned and the wise of the City and Land; This could not have been done except the far greater part of the City had submitted to the Gospell, for when they were well neer ready to tear Paul in peeces, they behoved to be wounderfully tamed, when many Believed, and came and confessed and shewed their deeds, v. 18. Baynes com. on 1. ch. Ephes. saith, Ephesus was a City sogiven to riot that it banished Hermodor. Upon no other consideration, but because he was an honest sober man; And also Paul 1 Cor. 16. saith, v. 9. for a great doore and effectuall is open to me at Ephesus, This was, as all Interpreters Protestant and popish say, uno ore, a large harvest. Upon these considerations, I leave to our reverend Brethren their judgement: if Mr. Mather, and Mr. Mr. Mather, ans. to Mr. Herle. c. 3. p. 38, 39.Thomson say right, we doe not thinke they were more in number at Ephesus, then in Corinth and Ierusalem, where the Christians met all in one place.

Likewise Samaria a numerous City was one Church, for that it is said of them, Acts 8, 5, 6. They heard Philip, v. 14. Samaria received the Word, it was a publick visible Churchreceiving of the word; and v. 12. They believed and were Baptized both men and women. Where a multitude no better then Heathen as Samaria was, receive the Seale of the Covenant, to wit Baptisme, they must receive it in a Church-way, except we thinke that promiscuously all come to age were received to the Seales, and when Peter and Iohn came to Samaria to helpe Philip in the worke, it cannot be that they all went to one House, and to one single Assembly to preach the Word;

The Church of Antiochia must be a Presbyteriall Church, a… it is Acts 11. v. 19. 20. for the multitude of Believers may be collected from These who were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Steven—20—when they were come to Antioch, spaks unto the Grecians preaching the Lord Jesus. 21. and the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed and turned to the Lord. This is not like to be one Congregation, seeing they are, 1. much people. 2. many scattered p. 471preachers. 3. And the Hand of the Lord accompained their labours 2. v. 23. when Barnabas, sent by the Church of Ierusasalem, came and saw the Grace of God, he exhorted them all, That with purpose of heart they would cleave to the Lord, and upon Barnabas his preaching, v. 24.—much people was added to the Lord. Here is a second accession made to the Church of Antioch. (3) v. 25. Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus to seek Saul. 26. And when hee had found him, hee brought him to Antioch. And it came to passe that a whole yeare they assembled themselves with the Church, and taught much people (here is a third accession;) And such a huge multiplication, that the Church of Antioch giveth a denomination of Christianity to all the Christian Churches of the World. All which saith, it cannot be one poore single Congregation, for there was at least, if not more then one Congregation at Antioch, when tidings came to Jerusalem that the Lord had a Church at Antioch, before they sent Barnabas to these Churches, v. 22. and what might this Church grow to when much people was added to the Lord, by the labours of Barnabas? v. 24. And how was it increased when Barnabas and Paul after that taught the Word to much people a whole yeare? v. 26. It grew after that a great Church, so that aaChrysostom. homil. 3. … popul. Antioch.Chrysostom commendeth Antioch for the prime Church. And bbOecumenius in loc.Oecumenius saith, for this cause there was a Patriarch appointed at Antioch, which certainly sayth thus much, that it was a more numerous Church then one single Congregation, and ccCyril. Catech. 7.Cyrillus so extolled the Church of Antioch, because the Disciples were first named Christians there, that he saith, this was the new name that Esaiah said the Mouth of the Lord ddEsai, 62. v. 2should name, and so doth eeHilarius l. …. de Trinitats.Hilarius expound the Text; which, seeing it is clearely the new glory of the Church of the Gentiles, adjoyned to the Church of the Iewes, it cannot arise from a handfull of a single Congregation, in the mind of these Fathers, and though we love not with some antiquity to make Antioch the first Church before Rome; yet seeing it was of old before Rome, we may hence collect that that Church which was patriarchall, was not Congregationall, and therefore I make no use hereof, ffVolaterranus l. 5. c. 23.Volaterranus who saith of old the p. 472Patriarch of Antioch had under him 14. Metropolitans, 53. Bishops, and 366 Temples, onelyonly it is like that Antiquity hath believed that there was a great number of Believers in this Church at first. Now to These, which to mee prove it was more then one Congregation, wee may adde that there was, Ch. 13. 1. in the Church that was at Antioch, certaine Prophets and Teachers, as they are reckoned out; These at Antioch Ministered to the Lord, in publick prayers (saith ggBeza in loc.Beza) and preaching, and (saith nnDiodatus an.Diodatus) in administration also of the Sacraments, and other parts of the Evangelick Ministery iiOecumenius in loc.Oecumenius foreign. Now I would know what all these Prophets and Doctors, beside Paul and Barnabas who preached a whole yeare at Antioch, did, in peaching to one single Congregation? and also it is said, Acts 15. 35. Paul and Barnabas continued at Antioch, Teaching and preaching the Word of Lord foreign, with also many others. Certainly here is a Colledge of preaching Pastors, who also did lay hands on Paul and Barnabas, Acts 13. v. 3. which all could not be busied in Teaching one single Congregation at Antioch.

Mr. Mather saith that the whole multitude of the Church of Antioch were gathered together Acts 14. 27. and Acts 15. 30, 31. Mr. Mather, against Herle c. …op. 50.to heare the Epistle read which was sent from the Synod. Therefore this Church was no more then might meete in one place.

Answ. I answer, the place Acts 14. 27. is the representative Church, for they met for a poynt of Discipline, at least for a matter that concerned all the Churches, to wit, to know how God had opened the doore of faith to the Gentiles, then must the many thousands of Men and Women, which made up the Church at Ierusalem, Acts 2. 42. Acts 4. 4. Acts 5. 14. Acts 6. 1. v. 7. Acts 21. v. 22. be many Congregations; now any Man may judge, how unpossible it was for the many thousands of the Church of Ierusalem to meet as one Congregation, for the Lords Supper and matters of Discipline, and it is knowen that the many thousands of the believing Iewes convened to the feast did not make one Church, Acts 21. 20. 21, 22. for our Brethren say, that was an extraordinary confluence of p. 473many people from all …udea came to the feast of Pentecost. And this, many learned Protestant Divines answer to that place. But 2. I doe believe that the assembling of the multitude at Antioch, c. 15. v. 30. which sayth Judas and Silas gathered to…ether the multitude, and delivered the Epistle, and Acts 11. 26. and Barnabas and Paul their assembling with the Church a yeare, must be taken distributively. And that there were more assemblings of the multitude and Church at Antioch then one, for Silas, Paul, Barnabas abode a good space at Antioch and taught the Word of the Lord with many others, Acts 15. 34 35. and therefore there is no ground or warrant, to say, that the Epistle was read to all that meeting in one day, and at one meeting, and as little warrant there is to say that Barnabas and Paul assembled themselves, Acts 11. 26. with one and the same single Church-assembly consisting of all the Christians at Antioch, in one house, and in one day, the space of the whole yeare in which they abode at Antioch, nor shall I believe that Paul and Barnabas and many other Teachers at Antioch, Acts 15. 35. Acts 11. 20, 26. Acts 13. 1, 2, 3, 4. assembled all in one materiall house at one single Church-convention: but it suteth not with the wisdome of Christ who sent his Disciples out, two by two, for the hastening of the worke, Mat. 10. That they did all, even the many prophets at Antioch, Acts 15. 35. Acts 13. 1. 2. onelyonly bestow their labours upon one single Congregation. And the word Church, and (Synagogue) both are taken distributively in the Scripture, and must of necessity be taken so. And so must we take the word, Exod. 12. 6. and so aaAinsworth an. in Exo. 12.Exod 12Ainsworth readeth it, and the (lambe) shall be kept by you, untill the fourteenth day of this monethmonth, and the whole Church of the congregation of Israel shall kill it. between the two evenings, & immolabunt eum foreign bbArias Montan Exo. 12. 6.Exod 12:6Arias Montanus turneth it, omnis cetus catus Synagogae Israel. Now the Word foreign in that place must be taken distributively. For all the children of Israel collectively did not meet to slay the Lambe; for the Text saith, v. 3. it was to be slaine in the House, that is, (saith ccAinsworth,Ainsworth) as the Greeke translateth, Houses. And here v. 3. foreign according to the House of their Fathers. The word (House) here must bee p. 474taken distributively for ddRivet. com. in Ex. 12.Exod 12Rivetus with great reason inclineth to thinke that the Passeover was not a Sacrifice properly so called. And truly to me the Lord doth determine the question, Jer. 7. 22. for I spake not to your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the Land of Egypt concerning burnt offerings and sacrifice, for 2 Chro. 30, v. 2. 17. there is no necessity to expound the place of these convivall Lambes of the Passeover, but of other Sacrifices offered at this time, see eeLyran in. 2. Par. c. 30.2 Chr 30Lyran, and ffCaset. ib.Cajetanus. And also ggCorcel. a lap. com in loc. v. 6.Cornelius a lapide saith on the words (because he can find no ground for the Mosse in the place) hinc pate… universos sacerdotes non immolasse hos agnos paschales in Templo, uti sentit Claudius Sainctes, 1. Repet. Eucharist. c. 7. Abulensis in Exod. 16. & ex eo Serrarius in Josu. 5. 9. 22. and it is certaine every Master of the Family did slay his owne Lambe, and hhDiodatus on Exod. 12.Exod 12Diodatus on these words (in every House) to shew the communion of the Church, in the enjoying of Christ and his benefi…s. And the ii70. Inter.seventy Interpreters render the place, Exo. 12. 6. foreign; and kkChald. para.the Chaldee paraphrast, &c. foreign immolabunt eum omnis Ecclesia filiorum Israel. llHieron.Hieron. immolabit eum universa multitudo filiorum Israel. However, there were neither Priests nor Temple as yet in Israel, when they came out of Egypt. And therefore every head of a Family did slay the Lambe, and so the Church of the Congregation distributively taken slew the Lambe, every one by himselfe; and so is the word (Synagogue) taken where its every way a Congregationall assembly; as Mat. 13. 54. And when hee was come to His owne Country, He taught them in their Synagogue foreign, The word (Synagogue) must be taken distributively. For he did not teach in one single Synagogue onelyonly in his own Countrey, but in many Synagogues, one after another, in diverse places, and at divers times; as it is expounded, Luke 4. 44. and Hee was preacking, foreign, in the Sgnagogues of Galilee, in the plurall number, Mat. 9. 35. He went about all Townes and Villages teaching in their Synagogues, &c. Joh. 18. 54. I ever taught in the Synagogues, and dayly in the Temple whither the Iewes alwayes refort. And therefore (Synagogue) p. 475Mat. 13. 54. in the singular number must be expounded distributively, for many Synagogues in diverse places and diverse times, and so doe I thinke the word (Church) and muluitude Acts 11. 26. Acts 5. 30. must be taken distributively; and so the word Church is taken. 1 Cor. 14. 19. Yet in the Church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others, then ten thousand words in an unknowen Tongue. Paul (I hope) desired not to speake in a knowen tongue to edifie in one single Congregation of Corinth onelyonly, but in all the Churches where he taught, and 1 Cor. 14 35. It is a shame for a Woman to speake in the Church: the word Church cannot be in that place restricted to the one single Congregation, supposed to meet all in one house at one time in Corinth, because it is a shame for a Woman to preach in all the Churches of the World, as is clear, 1 Tim. 2, 11, 12. and Exod. 12. 47. all the Church, (foreign) of Israel shall doe it, that is, they shall eate the Lambe in their Houses, and shall not break a bone thereof, so the 70. Interpreters render it, foreign, The Chaldee paraphrast, Omnis caetus Israel faciet illud. It were easie to b…ing infinite instances out of the Word of God 70. Interpreters Chaldee para.to make good that a collective, noun such as foreign, and foreign, a Church, is taken distributively. So James 2. 2. if toere came unto your assembly, foreign, a man with a gold Ring, &c. Except the word (assemblie) or, Church, be taken distributively and not collectively, it shall follow that all the dispersed Iewes, to whom Iames doth write, have one single place of Church-assembly, as Heb. 10. 25. not forsaking foreign, the assembly of your selves together, a… the manner of some is; but can any inferre from this place, more then from Acts 11. 26. Acts. 15. 35. that all the whole Hebrewes, to whom that Apostle doth write had one (foreign) single Church-meeting, and one Congregation, in the which they did all meet for worship? I thinke not: or will it follow that there were none amongst all these Iewes who did separate from any Church-assemblie, except onelyonly from the Church-assembly of a single Congregation, because the Apostle mentioneth onelyonly one single Church-meeting? I think not, and therefore the Apostles mentioning of one assembling p. 476of the Church, acts 11. 26. and of one multitude, in the singular number, acts 15. 30. can never prove that there was but one single Congregation at Antioch. Therefore there be great …dds betwixt meeting in a Church, and meeting in the Church.

Also Tit. 1. 5. for this cause was Titus left at Creet, that he might appaynt Elders foreign, in every City, if foreign be not all one with foreign, Acts 14. 23. acts 16. 4. 5. That is, if ordaining of Elders of every City, bee not as good, as ordaining of Elders in every Church, then must there be but in all, and every City, where ever the Apostles or Evangelists planted Churches, but one single Congregation, and not any more then could meet in a single Congregation; which is a conjecture, and much contrary to these times when the Gospell admirably grew in the World. And it must follow that every City had but such a competent number as met in one place; and if this hold, as an uncertaine thing, in great Cities, then must we say an Eldership in a City, and an Eldership of many Congregations were the first planted apostolick Churches, and so rules to us also. And looke what frame of Churches the Apostles did institute in Cities, that same they behoved to institute in Villages also, for places cannot change the frame of any institution of Christ. 2. The communion of Saints and Church-edification is as requisite for Villages, as for Cities.

Arguments removed, which Mr. Richard Mather, and Mr. William Thomson Pastors in New England, in their answer to Mr. Charles Herle, do bring, so far as they make against the authors former Treatises, and a scanning of some Synodicall propositions of the Churches of N. England.

MR. Mather, Mr. Thomson, c. 1. 9. Governing power is only in the Elders, 1 Cor. 12. 28. Rom. 12. 8. Heb. 13. 17. the people hath no power but rather a liberty or priviledge, which when it is exercised about Ordination, Deposition, Excommunication, is of the whole communiter, or in generall, but not of all and every member p. 477in particular; Women for their Sex, children for want of discr…tion are d…barred.

Answ. If there be no governing power in Women, nor any act at all in excommunication. You loose many arguments that you bring, 1 Cor. 5. to prove that all have hand in excommunication. 1. Because Paul writeth to all. 2. All were to mourne. 3. All ware to forbeare the company of the excommunicated men. Then belike Paul writeth not to all Saints at Corinth, not to Women, and Women were not to mourne for the scandall; nor to forbeare his company. 2. The priviledge being a part of liberty purchased by Christs Body, it must be due to Women, for the liberty wherewith Christ hath made Women free cannot be taken away by any Law of God from their Sex, except in Christ Iesus there be difference betwixt Iew and Gentile, male and female; nor is it removed because i… i… a power or authority, for the authors say it is no power, but a priviledge. 3. What priviledge the people have in ordination to confer a Ministery which they neither have formally, nor vertually, I know not. But I doe willingly say something here of the peoples power; The first Synodicall proposition of New England, is.

1. Propos. The fraternity is the first Subject of all Ministeriall power, radicalitèr, idest … per modum collationis, some say suppletivè, non habitualitèr, non actualit …r, non formalitèr.

That is, (if I conceive it right) The people voyd of all Officers have a vertuall power to conferre a Ministery on their Officers though they have not this power in themselves. I could in some sense yield that Believers not Angells, are capable of the Ministeriall power to exercise it formally, but that Believers doe, or can, by any way of causative influence, make Church-Officers, I see not: they may design a man qualified to bean Officer to the Office, and that is all. But say they, people wanting, or being naked and without all Officers hath not formally or habitually any power in them, this latter part Igrant, and the

2. Proposition I grant, to wit.

That the presbytery is the first subject of all presbyteriall power habitually, and formally. But I doe not see how it standeth with the third proposition; which is

p. 4783. The fraternity or the people without the Officers, and without Women or children, have an authoritative concurrence with the presbytery, in judiciall acts.

Because if the Brethren have an halfe Ministeriall power with the Officers in acts of Jurisdiction and Excommunication, Deposition, and Censures, I see not how there is not a Ministeriall power formally and habitually, at least in part, in the Brethren; and so contrary to the third proposition, the Prasbytery is not the first subject of all Prebyteriall power, for the brethren are sharers with the Elders in this power. 2. We desire to see it made good by Gods Word, that the brethren have a joynt power of Jurisdiction with the Elders, for the Table giveth them a brotherly publick power not by way of Charity, but a politick Church power, in many eminent acts, especially in those eight; and that constantly,

I cannot see any judiciall power, or any farther then a charitative yielding by way of a loving and brotherly consent, that the Scripture giveth to brethren. 3. How this can be denied to be a power of jurisdiction and governing; and an actuall Ministeriall using of the Keyes of the Kingdome by those who ex officio, by place, and calling are no Officers, I believe is not easily understood. 4. The letter that I saw sayth, that that learned and godly Divine Mr. Cotton and some others thinke, that the Church as it is an Organicall Body made up of Elders, and people is the first subject of all Ecclesiasticall power, and they divide it into a power of authority, and a power of liberty, whereof the power of authority belongeth to the Elders or Eldership, and the power of liberty to the Fraternity, or Brethren that are not Officers; and therefore these reverend brethren p. 479deny any authoritative concurrence to the brethren, and they thinke that the Church as it is an homogeneall body, that is, a company destitute of Officers, cannot formally ordaine, excommunicate, or censure the Elders, though in case of obstinacy they may doe that which is equivalent, and so separate from them.

The 4. Proposition is;

The fraternity or Brethren in an Organicall Body, or in a …med and established Church consisting of Officers and people, act and use their authority, subordinate per modum obedi nt…ae, subordinately, and by way of due obedience to the Elders, 2 C…r. 10. 6.

But I desire a word of Christs Testament for this, where wee a…de that collaterall Judges acting as Judges doe act by way of obedience and subjection one to another: for if the brethren, 1 Cor. 5. convened in Court with the Elders to deliver the incestuous man to Satan, do act in that Court as giving obedience to the Elders, I see not how they concurre authoritatively is sharers with them of that same Ministeriall power: if it be said, brethren though they act as Judges in excommunicating, yet they remaine brethren and a part of the flock, and so in all their morall acts of authoritative concurring with the Elders, they are under the pastorall care of these who watch for Soules, and so they judge and act even in the Court as under subjection to their watchmen, who must give an accompt for their Soules; I answer, so the Elders in their acts of the most supreame Ministeriall authority and acting in a Church. court, leave not off to be brethren and a part of the flock of Christ, and so in subjection one to another; for six Elders watch for the Soule of one, and one also for the Soules of six, and so if this were a good reason the Elders should act with subordination of obedience to Elders. As the people act with subordination to the Elders. 2. The place cited for this 2 Cor. 10. 6. where it is said, that the Preachers have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience, must inferre that they are to revenge, by the word which is mighty through God to cast downe strong holds, as is said there, v. 4. 5. even disobedience of Elders ruling unjustly and abusing the Keyes, no lesse then p. 480disobedience of the people. And I see not how brethen acting in a Church-Court joyntly with Elders, how in that they put on the relation of the flock, and the part governed in the very act of exercising acts of governing, for otherwayes one Pastor in the act of preaching in the Name of Jesus Christ, and so in authority above these to whom he preacheth, doth preach subordinatè, and as in subjection to the whole organicall and formed Church, who hath power to censure him, if he preach erroneous Doctrine. 3. I see not how the third Proposition doth stand, to wit, that the brethren, share with the Elders in authoritative acts of the Keyes, and yet they …ct (according to the. 4. Proposition) as under the Eldership by way of subjection and obedience to them. Except this be that which our brethren meane, that the people of a single Congregation exercise acts of Jurisdiction by way of dependence, so as they may be censured by the Elders if they erre, but the Elders if they erre, are every way Popes, and so independent; that there is no Church-power on Earth above them, that in a Church-way may censure them, or call them to an accompt. 4. The Table of New England divideth the actuall exercise of the power in a Charitative power by way of Love and Charity, and a politick or Church-exercise, the politick exercise againe is either brotherly, fraternall, or Presbyteriall,

And Teaching is either by way of Office, or Administrating the Sacraments.

The Presbyteriall exercise of the Keyes is independentElders, in the power of governing, sed respect… apotelesmatis s…u complementi censurae, in respect of the effect, or a compleat act of governing, the Elders Rule and Act with dependence upon

So that the Elders there alone without the people, can p. 481exercise none of these acts completely, without the people so heare the Elders depend upon the people in their actuall governing, and the Fraternity or Brethren depend on the Elders by way of subjection, or obedience to them.

Yet give me leave, the letter informeth me that it is said by many learned and godly men in New England, that if their policy should make the government of the Church popular, they should give up the cause. But I conceive the government to be popular, though the people only be not governours, for Mor…llius never taught any such thing; now this government maketh Elders and people to governe the Church joyntly with mutuall dependence one upon another, which certainly maketh the brethren in the Lord, as well as the Elders; for if the Elders be not these onelyonly which watch for the peoples Soules as these which must give an accompt Heb. 13. 17, 18. and they be not onelyonly foreign over the people in the Lord, as is said 1 Thess. 5. 12. 13. Then the brethren must be taken in with them a… joynt governours, as is said Propos. 3. Which certainly must confound the Scripturall order established by God betwixt the Pastors and the Flock, the Watchmen, and the City, the shep…eards and the flock, these who are to obey, and these who are over them in the Lord.

The 5. and 6. Proposition is, The Brethren may not excommunicate an Elder but mediante concilio, by the intervening sentence of the Elders; is, but the brethren may separate and withdraw from the Presbyteris, after they refuse sound advise.

Answ. 1. This is much contrary to that which they ordinarily teach, to wit, that people destitute of Officers may ordaine and excommunicate their Officers. 2. By this learning the Soules of Elders are in an hard case, for when they do all scandalously …, there is no Ecclesiasticall meane of edifying them, for there is no Church on Earth to excomunicate Elders when they …re. Separation from them is an unwarrantable way, except they be excommunicated. 3. In the case of the Elderships incorrigible scandalls, the power of excommunication retireth into the brethren. yet it was never formally in the brethren, nor can they exercise this power, but mediante Presbyteri…, p. 482that is, they cannot excommunicate the Eldership, but by the Judiciall sentence of the Eldership, and so the power is but a shadow.

Mr. Mather, Mr. Thomson, cap. 2. pag. 16, 17. though some have appealed, as Luther and Cranmer from the Pope to a generall councell. Yet not from a Congreation to a generall councell.

Answ. In matters doctrinall, some as Luther and others have justly appealed from a Congregation, to a generall councell, though Luther and Cranmer did it not; though verily I professe I cannot see what power of Jurisdiction to censure scandalls can be in a generall councell, there may be some meerly Doctrinall power, if such a councell could be had, and that is all.

M. Mather, Mr. Thomson, c. 2. pag: 20. if Churches be dependent on Synods, because the light of nature teacheth a communion and assistance in government, by the same reason Churches must end in a Monarchy on Earth.

Answ. I see this sayd, without any probation. Churches depend on many above them for unity; but what consequence is this; Ergo, they depend upon one visible Monarch. It is an unjust consequence.

Mr. Mather, Mr. Thomson, c. 2, pag. 26. The Graecians and Hebrewes made not two Churches, but one Congregation, they called the multitude of Disciples together, v. 2.

Answ. That the chiefe of both Grecians and Hebrewes were convened in one to give their consent to the admission of their Officers the Deacons, I conceive; but that all the thousands of the Church of Jerusalem were here, as in one ordinary Congregation I judge unpossible.

Mr. Mather, c. 3. pag. 27. 28. If your argument be good, if thy Brother offend and refuse to submit tell the Church, because Christs Remedy must be as large as the Disease: then if a Nationall Church offend, you are to complaine to a higher Church above a Nationall Church; and because offences may arise betwixt Christians and Indians, you may complain of an Indian to the Church.

Ans. Because ordinary communion faileth, when you got higher then a Nationall Church, and Christs way suppoleth p. 483an ordinary Communion, as is cleare. If thy Brother offend, &c. Therefore I deny that this remedy is needfull in any Church above a Nationall Church. 2. Christs remedy is a Church. remedy for Offences amongst brethren, and Members of the visible Church. And Indians are no Members of the Church, and so being without, they cannot bee judged, 1 Co. 5. 12.

We say that if the Magistrate be an enemy to Religion, may not the Church without him convene and renew a Covenant with God? Mr. Mather, and Mr. Thomson answer, c. 3. pag. 29. if the supreame Magistrate be an enemy to Religion, it is not like, but most or many of the people will be of the same mind. Regis ad exemplum—as it is in France, and Spaine, and was in the dayes of Queene Mary, and then the Believers in the Land will not be able to beare the name of the Land or Nation, but of a small part thereof; nor can it be well conceived how they should assemble in a Nationall Synod, for that, or any other purpose, when the Magistrate is a professed Enemie, nor doth God require it at their hands.

Answ. This is a weake answer: the Christians under Ner… were not like their Prince, and its not like but sincere Christians will bee sincere Christians and professe truth. even when the Magistrate is an enemy. And 2. If your meaning be, it cannot be conceived how they should assemble in a Nationall assembly when the Magistrate is an Enemy; because it is not safe for feare of persecution. Then you say nothing to the argument, because the argument is drawen from a duty, a Nation professing the Gospell after many backslidings are obliged to convene in a Nationall Synod, and are to renew their Covenant with the Lord, and your answer is from an ill of affliction: and if you meane that because the Princes power is against their Synodicall convening, this is nothing against the power of the Synods that CHRIST hath given to His Church; But if your meaning be that it is not lawfull to them to convene in a Nationall Synod to renew a Covenant with GOD against the supreame Magistrates will, I hope you minde no such thing…; for so doe Malignants aaThe. Fuller, truth maintained pag 26 27, 28.Now alledge that wee never read of any Reformation of p. 484Religion in Scripture warranted, but where the Prince did contribute his authority, because he onelyonly is to reforme, and he onelyonly rebuked for the standing of the high places, but hee may soone be answered.

1. Both Israel and Iudah were so bent to backsliding, that wee read not that ever the people made any reall Reformation of Religion, Josiah, Hezekiah and Asa did it for them. But what an argument is this: Iudah did never, for the most of the Land, seeke the Lord God of their Fathers with all their heart; Ergo, the seeking of the Lord God with all the heart is an unwritten tradition?

2. Princes are obliged to remove high places; But are they obliged with their owne Hands to breake all the Images? No, I thinke if they remove the high places by the Hands of their Subjects, or command their Subjects to remove them, they doe full well. But I see not this consequence. Ergo, Princes onelyonly are obliged to remove the high places, it followeth not.

3. If it be the Princes part to command his Subjects this duty of Reformation and removall of the high places, then they may performe their duty without the Prince.

4. There is a twofold Reformation, one an heart-Reformation. Sure this is not the Princes onelyonly. All the Land may repent without the King. There is another, an outward Reformation. And that is twofold, either Negative, or Positive… Negative is to refraine from ill, and the unlawfull and superstitious manner of worshipping GOD, as in new Offices not warranted by his Word, Antichristian Ceremonies, and a Masse-Booke, &c. Certainly all the Land are to abstaine from sinne, though the King command not: now all the Reformation for the most part in both Kingdomes is in obstinence from superstitious superadditions that defiled the worship of GOD, and to this there is no necessity of the Magistrates authority, more then wee need… the Kings warrant, to put an Obligation upon Gods Negative Commandements. All that is Positive is the swearing of a lawfull Covenant to observe and stand by the faith and true Religion of the Land, but I see no more a necessity p. 485that a King warrant the lawfull Vow of twenty thousand, then the Lawfull Vow of one Man, seeing it is a lawfull profession of CHRIST before Men commanded in the third Commandement. And to the observance of that Law of God, which God and Conscience hic & nunc doe oblige us, there is no addition of a Kingly authority by necessity of a Divine Law required to make it valid, no more then if all the Kingdome at such a solemne day of humiliation, should all in every severall Church sweare to Reformation of life.

5. The Apostles and Christ positively did reforme Religion, and the Church without and contrary to the mind of civill authority, nor is it enough to say the Apostles were Apostles, but wee are not Apostles, for upon this morall ground, Acts 5. 29. Wee ought rather to obey GOD than man,) they reformed contrary to the Magistrates mind. And wee doe but contend for that very same Faith, Jud. 3. which was once delivered to the Saints. So to Reforme is to seeke the old way, and to walks in it, Jeremy 6. 16. to turne to the LORD with all the heart, Jeremy 1. and for this cause, Jeremy 3. 10. Iudah is sayd not to veturue to the LORD with her whole heart, but fainedly, because when a zealous King reformed, them they returned not with all their heart. Whence Reformation of Religion must bee the peoples duty, no lesse then the Kings; and I believe such a divine precept carrying the new sense of our Malignant Divines should bee black policy, not sound Divinity, if any Ierimiah or Prophet should say; amend your wayes and turne to the LORD with all your heart, and put away your Idolls and your strange Gods, providing the King will goe before you, and command you so to doe. Hence I say that's a poore Court-argument of Parasites for Kings. Wee never read of any Reformation of Religion in Israel and Judah but when holy and zealous Kings commanded the Reformation; Ergo, the Reformation begun in Scotland without the consent of the Supreame Magistrate, and a Reformation now prosecuted in England against the Kings will is unlawfull. To which. I desire the Malignant Divines to receive these p. 486answers for Justifying the zeale of both Kingdomes in their Reformation.

1. It is a question, if they question not the Reformation according to the substance of the action, that is, if they are not offended that the Queenes Masse, the popery of Prelates and Divines under their wings, and their Arminianisme, and Socinianisme should be abolished, or if they condemne not the Doctrine, but question onelyonly the manner of abolishing such Heterodox stuffe. If the former be said, i… is knowen, never Malignant, Prelate or other had grace, by Word, or Writing, to entreate his M…jesty for a Reformation, and this is enough for the former. If they meane the latter, they bee very like the Pharisees, who when they durst not question the Doctrine and Miracles of Christ, they onelyonly questioned the manner of doing. And sayd by what authority doest thou these? But because they are joyned to the Papists side, and fight under their banner; It is most evident it galleth their stomacks, that Popery, Atminianisine, and Socinianisme are cryed downe; else the manner of doing a good worke, and such a necessary worke as Reformation, would not have offended them so highly, as to move them to kill the people of GOD; an error in the circumstances of a good worke is very veniall to Papists and Arminians.

2. Let them give to us, since they argue from a practice, a warrant of any such practice, where a whole Land went on in a Negative Reformation without the Prince Ergo, Negative precepts, by this logick, shall lay no divine obligation on us, except it bee the Kings will to forbid that which GOD forbiddeth, then suppose Episcopacy and the Ceremonies were the Idoll of the Masse established by a standing Law, it should bee unlawfull for the Kingdomes to forbeare and abstaine from Idolatry, except the Kings Law forbid Idolatry. What were this else but to say, we are obliged to obey Christs will, but not except with a Reservation of the Kings will?

3. This is an argument Negative, from one particular in Scripture, and therefore not concludent. For it is p. 487thus, Reformation without the King wanteth a practise in the Sc…ipture; Ergo, it is unlawfull, it followeth not, except it want Precept, Promise and Practise, for the argument Negative from Scripture is onelyonly undeniable in this sense; And in this sense onelyonly pressed by our Divines against Papists. And therefore it is like this argument, Purgatory is not commanded in this Chapter, Idolatry is not forbi…den in this Commandement, Ergo, neither Purgatorie, nor Idolatry is forbidden in Gods Word. So let the adversaries give me a practise in the Word of God, where a Brother kept this order of Christs three Steps, Mat. 18.

First, to reprove an offender alone.

Secondly, before two or three witnesses.

Thirdly, in case of obstinacy, to tell the Church; and to these adde, that the man was by the Church to be reputed as an heathen and a Publican. And I hope, because such a practise we doe not read, yet it followeth not that it is unlawfull. So where read you a Man forgiving his Brother seventy seven times: Ergo, it is unlawfull to forgive him seventy and seven times? Where read you that Christ and His Apostles, and the Christian Church in the New Testament raised Warre and Armies either to defend or offend, but I hope Anabaptists have not hence ground to inferre, then must all Warres be unlawfull to Christians, for wee can produce warrantable precepts, where we want practise.

Fourthly, where it is said, Kings onelyonly are rebuked for not removing high places, and Kings onelyonly are commended, because they are removed, therefore none should reforme but Kings. This followeth no wayes, but onelyonly Kings by Royall authority should reforme; but it followeth not; Ergo, the people without the King are not obliged to reforme themselves in their manner, for I am sure, that the people should all universally resolve and agree, never to sacrifice in the high places and accordingly to practise: And to sacrifice onelyonly in the place which the Lord had chosen to place His Name there, at GODS expresse Law commanded, Deuteronomy 13. 23. Deuteronomy 12. 14. 18. Deuteronomy 16. 2. 7. 11. 15. Deut. 31. 11. had beene a removall of the high places and a warrantable p. 488Reformation, though the King should have, by a standing Law, commanded that they should sacrifice in the high places, for the people are rebuked, because 2 Kings 17. 11. They burnt Incense in all the high places, 2 Chronicles 33. 17. Hosea 4. 13. and, a Chronicles 20. 33. the reason why the high places were not taken away, is: For as yet the people had not prepared their Hearts unto the GOD of their Fathers. If then not Sacrificing in the high places was the peoples duty, they were to remove the high places, in their place; and so farre to reforme without the KING, yea suppose the KING command the contrary, the people ought to obey GOD, and the Parliament may by GODS Law abolish Episcopacy, popish Ceremonics, and the popish Service though the KING consent not, upon this ground that those he the high places of England, for the which the Wrath of the Lord is kindled against the Land.

Fifthly, the adversaries may read, 2 Chronicles 15. 9. That the Strangers out of Ephraim, and Manasseh and Simeon gathered themselves together to Asa without the consent of their KING, and did enter in a Covenant to seek the Lord God of their Fathers.

Sixtly, the Pastors of the Land are obliged to preach all necessary truth, without the KING, and accordingly are to practise what they preach; now Reformation is a most necessary truth, they are then to reforme themselves and Religion without the KING: for the Word of GOD, not the KINGS will is the Pastors rule in preaching, and hee is to separate the pretious from the vile, that hee may be as Gods Mouth, Jeremy 15. 19. and Ezekiel 2. 7. Thou shalt speake my words unto them, that was the Doctrine of Reformation, not the KINGS words, vers. 8. But, thou sonne of man, heare what I say to thee; yea Pastors are to preach against Kings and their sinnes, 1 Kings 13. 1. 2. 3. Jer. 1. 18. Ier. 26. 10, 11, 12.

Seventhly, if no Reformation can be without the KING, 1. People are not to turne to the Lord, and repent th…m of the evill of their doings, and to prevent the Babylonish captivity, or a worse judgement, except the KING p. 489will, and all Religion and. 2. Church-worship must bee resolved ultimately on the KINGS will and pleasure: for if it be not the KINGS pleasure to reforme, the people must continue still where they were, and Scotland who contrary to the will and heart of authority at our first Reformation put away the Masse and Popery, and established Religion in sincerity, is greatly to bee condemned. Luther had authority against him, and the powers of the World, it was one point of Reformation that John Baptist tooke up, against the Law of the Land to preach against Herods sinne; for if Popery be in a Land, to leave Popery is a great degree of Reformation, and if the people, without the Prince, may goe on in the greatest step of Reformation, why not also in the lesser? except you say the people without the King, are not to abstaine from the grossest Idolatry under the Sunne, which is to worship and adore the worke of the Bakers hands.

Mr. Mather, Mr. Thomson. The name Church, 1 Cor. 14. 4, 5. 35. 26, 27. 28. is plainly given to that company that did assemble and come together for performance of spirituall duties, and for the exercise of spirituall gifts, as Acts 14. C. 3. pag. 32.27. Acts 11. 26. 15. 4. 22. 30. 1 Cor. 11. 18. 20 22. 23. 3. Ioh. 6. which places doe abundantly shew that a company gathered together to one place is called by the name Church, as Cenc…rea, Rom. 16. 1. which could not containe many Congregations, being but the prot of Corinth.

Answ. We seeke no more, if it be called a Church which conveneth for performance of spirituall duties: as some of your places doe well prove; Ergo, no assembly should have the name of Church, but such as assemble for Word and Sacraments; this now you cannot affirme, and it followeth not, the Church spoken of Matthew 18. is not assembled to Word and Sacraments, But to bind and loose on Earth. The meeting, 1 Cor. 5. 4. is not for Word and Sacraments, but to deliver to Satan, for ought wee can read, the word Church, Acts 14. 27. is not an Assembly for Word and Sacraments; but to heare how God had opened the doors of Faith to the Gentiles, and whether this was preaching of the Word and receiving p. 490the Sacraments, or rather a matter that concerned the Apostles and Elders that they might not thinke hard to preach the Gospell to the Gentiles, I leave to the judicious Reader; and if to be received of the Church, Acts 15. 4. be a matter of word and Sacraments, let all judge. And if to lend a decree of a Synod, Acts 15. 22. be the act of a Church assembled for word and Sacraments, let the World judge: and therefore all these places doe strongly confirme a Presbytery assembled for acts of Iurisdiction, and matters that belong to many Churches, as is most cleare, Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 4. Acts 15. 22. and seeing wee finde the name (Church) given to a meeting assembled onelyonly for discipline or things that concerne many Churches, for any thing wee can read or observe from the word: as Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 4 22. 30. Matthew 18. 17. and also the word Church given to a meeting assembled for the word, 1 Cor. 14. 1 Cor. 11. 18. 20, 22, 23. Rom. 16. 1. and not for acts of Jurisdiction for ought that wee can collect from the word. I beseech you, Brethren, why doe we contend? if the word Church, be a meeting of persons assembled to one place, for spirituall duties, sometimes for word and Sacraments onelyonly, sometimes for acts of Jurisdiction onelyonly, then is the word Church, by our brethrens argument taken both for the Congregation, and for the Elders of one, or of diverse Churches; and so wee have our intent. And we desire our brethren to prove (which they must prove, if they oppose our principles) that the word (Church) is never taken for the Eldership onelyonly, in all the Word of God, but these places prove the contrary, as I have shewen. 2. Whereas our brethren say; a company gathered into one place (which is nothing else but a Congregation) are called by the name of a Church. I answer 1. Such a company is onelyonly called by the name of a Church, as I have proved; for a company meeting for discipline onelyonly, Matthew 18. 17 1 Cor. 5. 4. is a Church also. 2. It is false that a company gathered in one place are nothing else but a Congregation. As you take the word (Congregation) for to you (Congregation) is an assembly of men and Women meeting for word and Sacrament with the Elders of the Church, I appeale to the judgement p. 491of our reverend brethren; If the Church, Mat. 18. 17. assembled to bind and loose, if the Church, 1 Cor. 5. 4. (though the Text speake nothing of the word (Church) assembled to deliver to Satan. If the Church assembled, Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 2. to heare things which concerned the Apostles, and many Churches, rather then one; If the multitude convened, Acts 15. 30. to heare the decree of the Synod read, and if the Church of Apostles and Elders from Antiosh and Ierusalem. Acts 15. 22. be a Congregation or a Congregationall Church assembled for word and Sacraments, as the word Church is taken, Acts 11. 26. 1 Cor. 11 20, 22, 33.

Mr. Mather, and Mr. Thomson, Num. 8. 10. The children of Cap. 3. pag. …. Ordination.Israel which were not the Church of Officers layd on hands on the Levites, therefore when a Church hath no Elders the people may conferre ordination, and it is not to be tyed to the Presbytery onelyonly. Hence other of our Brethren say, ordination is but accidentall to a Ministers calling, and may be wanting, if the people shall chuse, in the defect of Elders.

Answ. Here two poynts are to be discussed shortly. 1. If Ordination belong to the People. 2. If Ordination to a certaine stick be necessary, for certainly the people doe not call but to a certaine flock. To the first I say; There is not a place in all the Word of God where the people conferre ordination to the Pastors of the New Testament. Therefore our brethren flee to the Old Testament to prove it from the Levites who received imposition of hands from the children of Israel; but our brethren hold, that the calling of the Levites and of the Pastors of the New Testament are different, as the Officers and Churches of the Jewish and Christian Church are different. 2. Our brethren grant pag. 49. That it wanteth all example in the New Testament that the people lay on hands. 3. These who layd on hands on the Levite, Num. 8. were Elders and (our brethren say,) It is like they were, but. 1. They did it not as Elders. 2. But as representing the people, not as Elders civill, for that belonged to Aaron and his sonnes, Levit. 8. else it will follow that where the Church Page 46.hath no Magistrate to lay on hands, the Church may doe it. Nor did they lay on hands as Ecclesiasticall Elders, because p. 492what these which layd on hands did, they did as from the Congregation for 1. These Levites were taken in stead of the first borne of Israel and not in stead of the first borne of the Elders only, Num. 3 40, 41. 2. They were presented to the Lord, as an offering of the children of Israel, not of the Elders only. 3. When the multitude brought an oblation, the Elders put their hands on the head of the sacrifice Levit. 4. 15. in stead of all the multitude.

Answ. These who layd on hands, did it as a worke peculiar to the Elders, because the Elders were a part of the first borne, who by Office were Elders, and in whose stead the Levites were assumed, Num. 3. 40. 41. else the Church of Israel being a constituted Church before this time, wanted Officers, which is against all truth. 2. We grant the Magistrates layd not on hands, but they who layd on hands did it as Ecclesiasticall Elders. And the reasons against this conclude not. 1. The first reason concludeth not because these who layd on hands were the first borne, who by Office were Church men. 2. The other two reasons prove nothing, for because these who layd on hands, did lay on hands as representing the whole Congregation, alas it doth no wayes conclude that they layd not on hands as it is a works peculiar to them as Elders, for the Priest offered sacrifice first for his owne sinnes, and then for the peoples, Heb. 7. 27. and so did represent the people. But, I hope, it followeth not that therefore the Priest did not sacrifice as a Priest, and by vertue of a peculiar Office, but onelyonly as a principall member of the Congregation. 3. What if there be no Elders in a single Congregation, as our brethren suppose there were no Elders in Office in Israel to lay hands on the Levites? it will not follow therefore, the people are to lay on hands, except there were no Elders in all the Land or Nationall Church to lay on hands. And though I thinke imposition of hands not so essentiall perhaps as a Minister can be no Minister without it, yet I thinke not so of Ordination (for these to mee are as different as the authoritative calling of a Minster, and a rite annexed to that calling) because none can be a Minister in a constituted p. 493Church, but one which is called of God as was Aaron. But you will say, in a Church, in an Island one may bee a Pastor without any ordination, if the people elect him, and there be no Elders to ordaine.

I answer, it is true: but so many Pastors send a Pastor to bee a Pastor to a Congregation, though that Congregation never chuse him, as possibly they bee for the most part Popish, or unwilling, yet both Cases are extraordinary and the Church not constituted and established.

M. Mather, if the people may elect Officers, then in some cases they may ordaine them! also, because ordination is lesse then I… 46, 47.election, and dependeth, upon it as a necessary antecedent, and it is nothing but a… consummation of election, or the admission of a person into the possession of that Office, whereto hee had right before by election. If then a single Congregation may elect, which is the greater, they may ordaine which is the lesser.

Answ. Ordination is the more, and election the lesse; for ordination is an act authoritative of the Presbytery, 1 Tim. 4. 14. and, for ought I see, the authors might argue thus, the people may ordaine; Ergo, they may preach and baptize, for all the three are presbyteriall acts given to men in office. 2. Some doubt if I said rightly in my former Treatise, that ordination is prior to election, because ordination is that whereby a Minister is made a Minister, and election that whereby he who is a Minister first by order of nature, is made the Minister of such a fl…ck. I will not contend with any of either sides for order. But when I said so, I tooke the word (election) for the peoples actuall receiving and their compleat taking him for their Minister, after hee is now ordained a Minister this is his installing in his Office. And my reason is; because the peoples naming of such a man to bee their pastor doth stand with his never being their pastor; hee being unwilling to be their pastor, and the presbytery thinking it unfit hee be the pastor of such a people. 2. The people elect him as a pastor to be their pastor, they doe not elect him as a gifted man. And whereas some say. Acts p. 4946. 3. 4, 5. Election of seven men to be Deacons goeth before ordination and imposition of hands, v. 6.

Answ. Election of the people goeth before ordination in the relation of Luke, true; Ergo, election is prior by order of nature, it followeth not. But Acts 1. Ordination of Matthias (God casting the lot upon him, vers. 25.) is prior to the peoples electing of him, for the peoples appoynting of two, vers. 23. cannot be their election; for they were to elect one, but I submit to the learneder my thoughts in this. As also my tearming Paphnutius neither Bishop nor Elder at the Councell of Nice, which I did not as denying him to bee a Bishop, but because hee was called to that Councell of Nice where as before hee had beene deprived, but was restored by Constantine, though in the estimation of these who contended for the single life of Priests, whose corruptions Paphnutius opposed, hee was in an Ecclesiasticall sense neither Bishop nor Presbyter but deprived from both. But let the righteous rebuke mee, and it shall be as Oyle to my Head. 3. It cannot bee that election of the people is the whole calling of a man to the Ministerie, and Ordination onelyonly a supplement and an consummatory rite, or a benedictory signe which may bee spared. 1. Because by the imposition of the bands of the Presbytery, Timothy was made a Minister, 1 Timothy 4. 14. Paul and Silas separatted to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 13. 1, 2, 3, 4. the Deacons ordained, Acts 6. 6. and this is enjoyned with the right manner of acting it to Timothy, 1 Timothy 5. 22. 2 Timothy 2. 2. as a Ministeriall act. 2. A Ministeriall caling standeth in an authoritative sending, Romans 10. 15. and I see not well how the people themselves doe send a Minister to themselves. (3) The people have not either formally, or by any grant of CHRIST, vertually, the Keyes committed to them, how then can they give the Keyes to pastors? 4. People may as the Sheepe of CHRIST, Ioh. 10. decern His Voyce, and so have a power of Election of their owne pastors, nor doth this make good which our Brethren say.

Mr. Mather sayth, that because they are all taught of God, p. 495C. 5. page 51.Esa. 54. 13. and they knew Christs 'Doctrine, Joh: 7. therefore they may judge of a Ministers fitnesse, for it is plaine that there it a twofold knowledge; one of Christians, Esal. 54. 13. not denied to Women and believing Children, who cannot lay on hands nor ordaine Ministers, as the presbytery doth, 1 Timothy 4. 14. Acts 6. 6. Acts 13. 1 2. 3. 1 Timothy 5. 22. 2 Timothy 2. 2. but for trying of Ministers if they bee the sonnes of the Prophets and must be apt to teach, 1 Timothy 3. 1, 2. able to convince subtile Hereticks and gain-sayers and to put them to silence, Titus 1. 10. 11. there must be in a constituted Church a Colledge of pastors and prophets to try the prophets, with a presbyteriall Cognizance.

But here some object. If Election bee absolutely in the h…ds of the people, then is the peoples will, because will, the absolute determiner who shall be the Pastor to such a flock; but people certainly may erre, therefore the Presbytery must bee the last determiner in election; And people have onelyonly a rationall consent, and if their consent be irrationall, the Presbyter must chuse for them.

I answer shortly in these propositions.

1 Pro. Neither is the People infallible in chusing, nor the Presbytery infallible in regulating the peoples choice, yet is power of regulating the choice, the presbyteries due, nor power of election to be denied to Gods people.

2. Pro. You must suppose the Church a settled and an established Church of sound professors, for if the Congregation or presbytery, either of them be, for the most part, popish, Arminian or unsound in the Faith, in so far hath Christ given neither power to the one, or other.

3. Prop. When it is acknowledged by both people and presbytery, that of two or three men, any one is qualified for the place, then the man is absolutely to bee referred to the peoples choice, and though the people give no reason why they chuse this man, rather then any of the other two, yet i… the Peoples choice reasonable, for no doubt Acts. 6. there were more men then these seven of good report and full of the Holy Ghost, and fit to be Deacons, therefore the multitudes choice of these seven, and their nomination of them p. 496to be Apostles rather then the nomination of any other men is rationall and approved by the twelve Apostles, though they give no reason; Yea, though Nicolas be the S…ctmaster of the Nicolaitans (as the learned thinke) yet the election is Ecclesiastically lawfull and needeth not that a reason be given to the Apostles.

4. Prop. We never read that in the Apostles-Church a man was obt…uded upon the people against their will. And therefore Election by the people in the Apostolique Church, as Acts 1. 26. Acts 6. 2, 3, 4. Revel. 2. 12. Acts 20. 28. must be our rule, any election without the peoples consent must be no Election, for if it please not the whole multitude, as Acts 6. 5. it is not a choice.

5. Prop. We must distinguish Election and Regulation of the Election.

2. There is a Regulation of the Election, positive; and a Regulation negative. Hence the presbyteries power consisteth only in a negative regulation of the peoples choice, not in a positive; For example, Election is an elicit act of the people, and their birthright and priviledge that Christ hath given to them, and it cannot be taken from them; if there be any Election, it must be made by the people, the presbytery even in case of the peoples aberration cannot usurpe the act of Election; because the Apostles, who yet had the gift of discerning spirits, in a greater measure then the multitude, remit the choice of the seven Deacons to the multitude; Ergo, the presbytery should doe the same; yet may the presbytery negatively reggulate the Election, and if the people out of the humour of itching eares chuse an unfit man, in that case the presbytery may declare the Election irregular and null; as suppose the multitude, Acts 6 had chosen such a man, or all the seven men, like Simon Magus, the twelve Apostles by their Ministeriall power might have impeded that Election, or rather nomination as irregular, and put them to chuse other seven men; but the Apostles could not have chosen for them other seven, for then Election should have bin taken out of the peoples hands; Hence that distinction of elicit and imperate acts, even as the understanding commandeth and directeth the will to such and such elicit. p. 497actions, and regulateth the will therein, and yet the understanding can neither nill, nor will, and the King may punish pastors who preach Hereticall doct in & vitiate the Sacrament; but the King can neither preach the word himself, nor administate the Sacraments; so the presbytery may regulate negatively and hinderth Election of an unfit man, but the presbytery cannot do, as the P…elate did who would name a man to the people, and desire their consent (but consent is not all, the presbytery and neighbour Congregations have consent, but no elective liberty given them by Christ) but if the people refused their consent, he Prelate without more a do, chose and ordained the man, and so he was obtruded on the people without any Election at all.

Ordination of an ordinary pastor is always to a certain flock, Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 1. Rev. 2. 1. yet here must we distinguish'd dedication to Christs service by the office. 2. The exercise of the office, in the former respect the pastor is a pastor every where, and may be sent as a Pastor to plant Churches, but ratione finis. He is primariò principally to feed this flock, and secundario and ratione med…i, secondarily, while he feedeth this flock, he feedeth the Church universall.

Mr. Mather, if people may not m…dle with ordination, because it Ib. c. 59.is proper to Timothy and Titus, this may prove that they were Bishops who did ordaine Elders there alone, which ministers may not do there; for these Epistles are not written to them, as Bishops alone, nor as Elders alone, but as to a mixt state, including the people.

Answ. Some parcells of these Epistles are written to Timothy and Titus as Evangelists, such as none may now do but they only, … 2 Tim. 4. 4. 1 Tit. 1. 3. Tim. 1. 5. and some other things which they gave in charge to Elders. 2. Some things are written to them as Christians, as 1 Tim. 1. 19. Tit. 3. 3. & finaliter or objectively all is written for the Churches good; but (3) the builk of the Epistle is written to them as Elders, and is a rule of perpetuall government, and especially, 1 Tim. 1. 22. 2. Tim. 2. 2. for these and the like they were to doe with the presbytery, as is cleare, 1 Tim. 1. 14.