Catholic Charity Complaining and Maintaining that Rome is Uncharitable, Chapter 7
CHAP. VII.
A consideration of the Cavaliers fifth Chapter; wherein (to the great danger of the Papacy) that is proved by Scriptures and Fathers which wee doe not deny; That out of one true Church of Christ no salvation is to be found.
SECT. I.
This ground yeelded, doth not produce any discharge, whereby the Romists may be freed from uncharitablenesse in damning Protestants.
THe Cavalier fights on our side, and against his fellowes; wee are yet left in the Church notwithstanding any thing he hath said or alledged; and he hath yet left salvation to us, and uncharitablenesse to his owne Papacy: And now we being left in the Church, he goes about to prove, that out of this Church there is no salvation; So, upon the matter, hee proves that out of the Protestants Church there is no salvation. But then what will become of the Papacy, which will not be of one Church with saved Protestants? And indeed except it were to speake for us, and against the Papacy, what need is there of these proofes for a point not denied by us? For, wee give him this at first onelyonly for the asking, That out of the onelyonly true Church (the body of Christ) there is no salvation.
Yet will hee needs goe on to fight for a point which we confesse; yea, withall to fight for us against himselfe: And indeede even where he would seem to fight against us, hee doth it so loosely and far-off, that it is hard to discerne how his blowes doe concerne us.
Let us see his first onset, Since the Church of Christ our Lord is so truely one, and but onelyonly one, it followes easily enough that no salvation can be had out of this Church, and that every Heresie or Schisme is sufficient to deprive any soule thereof; but yet neverthelesse to the end that men may bee wholly left without excuse, or rather that they may bee the better warned to take heed in time of those miseries, which otherwise they are to feele for all eternity: I will strengthen also this truth by the Authoritie of some few Scriptures and Fathers of the Primitive Church; for so by degrees it will easily and of it selfe appeare, that wee Catholicks are not faulty in that wherewith wee are so much charged. I confesse it is hard to finde out this Authors order and way; his end or drift we know, but the way by which he would come to it is hard to bee seene: I am sure hitherto hee hath not made good his first steps in it, and yet hee would seeme to proceed, as if hee came neerer to his end by degrees, when yet hee is still on his threshold: for first, though the Church of Christ be but one, and it doe follow that no salvation can be had out of that one Church, this (as hath beene noted) is no degree to the cleering of Papists uncharitablenesse in damning Protestants. Againe, it doth not follow, that every Heresie in the Popish sense, is sufficient to deprive any soule thereof; and so Protestants may still suffer a false charge of Heresie to bee laid on them by Romists, and yet bee sure enough of salvation. And thus not any degree is yet made good toward the freeing of this charge of uncharitablenesse, justly laid on the Romists; So that the matter stands still, though the Author moving his pen thinkes that the matter moves with it.
And for the Allegations that follow, which seeme to labour for these two points, That out of the Church is no salvation, And that Heresie and Schisme doe put men out of the Church; these being proved no way hurt us or help the Romists, but helpe us and hurt the Romists; among whom wee have found most fearfull and bloudy Schisme, and wee may discover damnable Heresies: but they can never prove that Protestant doctrine maintaines either Heresie or Schisme; but by that which they call Heresie, as relying wholy on Christs merits and not our owne for redemption, and worshiping God in spirit and truth, and not worshiping Images, &c. wee serve the God of our Fathers.
SECT. II.
The Allegations of Scriptures and Fathers, made by the Cavalier, are more forcible to exclude the Papists out of the Church then the Protestants against whom they are produced.
THat being yeelded which this Author indeavours to prove, I know not what to doe with his Allegations, but onelyonly to turne them against Romists.
Therefore we very well allow the place alledged out of Esay, Esay 60.12. Gens enim & Regnum, &c.and say it makes against the Pope, who doth not submit himselfe to the Church in a generall Councell; and so doth the place of Matthew (formerly alledged and answered) upon the same Reason: And we very well allow those places of Paul to Titus and Timothy, Tit. 2.as making much against the Pope and his adhaerents, and say that they give us just ground of avoiding him, being Hereticall and Schismaticall after many admonitions. But this Author did wisely in not naming Timothy in his margent but Titus, though hee alledge these words out of 1. Tim. 4.1, 2. That they attend to doctrines of Divels, and spirits of Errour: That they are Lyers and▪ Hypocrites, lest the Reader looking to the place might finde this which followeth, Forbibbing to marry, and commanding to abstaine from meats; which wee know that Protestancie doth not: but if Papistry doe, then who are now his Hereticks, Hypocrites and Lyers, excluded from the Church, and so from salvation? Hee did also very discreetly in his namelesse alledging some pieces out of 2. Tim. 3. where is mention of Iamnes and Iambres —and to make use of the verse fore-going, having the form of godlinesse, and the verses following, That they are ever learning, but without attaining to the knowledge of the truth; but left out the middle verse, which is this, Of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly Women laden with sins, and led with divers lusts: which words being notable markes of seducers, for what reason the Author left them out he best knowes; but if wee may beleeve their owne*Women gospellers the trumpetors of their praises. Watsons Quodl. preface. And Quodl. 2. in the margin. A reason why some Catholick Gentlemen that live about London were discontented, when wanting their wives three or foure or more daies, they must be forsooth. in the holy exercise, &c. Priest, it doth rightly hit with some Romish proselite-makers; so that the simple Reader, if hee had seene this place wholy alledged, might perchance have thought hee had seen, in these, the very Iamnes and Iambres of these times.
His last Scripture is out of S. Paul to the Galathians, where striving to prove that the word Sects in Latin, is Heresies in the Greeke, he (somewhat Heretically I doubt even when he speaks against Heresie) leaves the decreed Latin to follow the Greeke: But this being taken for a fault in the Latin, let the word be as it is in the Greeke, and then to the shame of the Papacy wee read indeed, that Heresies are works of the flesh, which certainly those are most likely to fall into that strive to set up a fleshly monarchy, and to abound in the glory bVides omnē Ecclesiasticum zelum servere sola pro dignitate tuenda: honori totum datur, sanctitati nihil aut parum. Ber. de Confid. lib. 4. cap. 2.and wealth of the world: For such men will sell heaven, and truth, and the Gospell for a messe of Pottage, even for base and transitory vanity; It is the sentence of Gods spirit, that where is the love of the World, there is not the love of God; and where is not the love of God, there cannot bee the love of the truth; 1. Ioh. 2.15. Ioh. 8.42.47. 1. Ioh. 5.6. 1. Thes. 2.10.and where is not the love of truth, there is a giving up to strong delusions to beleeve lyes, that they all may bee damned who beleeved not the truth. Now among innumerable examples of the Papacies love of the world, and preferring temporall greatnesse and wealth above the truth, let the lamentable conference betweene cThe Cardinall of Volterra tells Pope Adrian, that no reformation could bee made that would not notably diminish the rents of the Church: Pope Adrian said the condition of Popes was miserable, that they could not doe good though they d…si…ed and endeavoured to doe it. Hist. Con. Trid. lib. 1. Nec aliud quicquam etiam nunc obstar, quo minus Ecclesia in pristinum nitorem restituatur quam ambitio & avaritia. Ferus in Iean. 11.Adrian the sixth and the Cardinall be a lively proofe and spectacle; where the poore Pope (and herein not a Pope, and therefore hee did well soone to bee gone) speaking of the necessity of reformation; There was no consideration of the truth of this necessity, but a plaine confutation of whatsoever truth there was in it, by the Popes Audit and Exchequer, even by worldly profit.
But the Scriptures thus being lost, except onelyonly in making against their owne Papacy, hee comes to Fathers; not so much to hurt with them, as to bee hurt by them.
Tertullian (saith hee) affirmeth, That Hereticks cannot bee accounted Christians: But of what heresies doth hee speake there? Of any Protestant opinions? He doth not say that any Protestants are hereticks: He repeats there a rule of aPamelius cals it Regulam, aus Symbolum. And again, Nostrae Religionis Articuli vocantur hic Regula. De Praescript. cap. 14.faith, as it were the body of a Creed, consisting of divers Articles; Doe the Protestants deny any of these Articles? True it is, that of this rule of faith hee saith, Nullus habet apud nos quaestiones, &c. There are no questions among us of this rule, but those which Heresies make, and doe make Hereticks. But wee doe not make question of this rule, and so are not made hereticks by it: But they doe rather question this rule, that bring in another faith; the Popes Oracles,Those of Pius the fourth. and new Articles. For, whereas Tertullian here saith, Fides in regula posita est: The faith is set downe in that rule, which before hee rehearsed; the Romists faith is not in that rule: For, there was not one word of the Pope, nor of Christs being under the forme of bread by Transubstantiation; but, In Coelos ereptum, sedere ad dextram Patris; misisse vicariam vim Spiritus Sancti qui credentes agat: Being taken away into heaven, hee doth sit at the right hand of his Father; and hee hath sent his Vicar (not the Pope, but) the power of the Holy Ghost, which should leade those that beleeve.
And in the 33. Chapter, making an Inventory of certaine Heresies, amongst others, hee names this, which, I doubt, is some kinne to the Papacie; Timotheum instruens, Nuptiarum quoque interdictores suggillat: He saith, That S. Paul instructing Timothy, doth condemne the forbidders of marriage.
Saint Cyprian is next brought in to say that thousand times produced sentence, that, Out of the Church there is no salvation: Hereunto is added, that There is no reward of any suffering whatsoever; neither is hee a Christian that abides not in Christs doctrine and faith. But in all this hee doth not say that the Protestants are not in the Church, neither that they remaine not in Christs Doctrine and Faith; but it may rather concerne the Papacie, which hath made a new Church against the Church of Christ; and a new Faith, by adding twelve Articles more to the former. It doth also plainely shew them that they, suffering for Treasons of Powder, Rebellion, &c. cannot expect thereby a Crown of faith, but a punishment of perfidiousnesse.
Saint Augustine is next alledged, and hee useth the like or very same words, and so the like or the same answer might serve. But indeed Augustine so punctually speaketh against the Papacie, and pierceth it through, that no one place can well bee lost, because every one is serviceable against the Papacy for which it is produced; These are the words first alledged out of Saint Augustine, Would you have men so blinde and deafe as not to heare or reade the Gospel, where they may know that faith our Lord left to his Apostles concerning his Church? Now, what the Papists will answer to this I know not, who make many men so blinde, as not to reade at all, and so deafe, as not to heare the Gospel but in Latin: And secondly, hee sayes that Saint Augustine puts himselfe to shew, That this is that Church of Christ which is spread over the whole world. Who can more plainly say, that the Roman Papacie is not this Church, whose universall power and extent is denyed by other Patriarchs, and is unbeleeved, yea, and unknowne in a great part of the Christian world?
The last place out of Augustine, seconded with the consent of Cardinall Perron, hee turnes to this use, That Catholick is not onelyonly a name of beleefe and faith, but of charitie and communion; which whosoever should want, should also want salvation. But withall I must say, that long before I knew this opinion of Perron, I beleeved this truth; and I also beleeved that it did make mightily for us, and mightily against the Papacie. That it makes mightily for us, I have shewed in the first Chapter, who doe imbrace a catholick love with the whole body of Christ, which is his Church. That it makes mightily against the Papacie, I have shewed in the second Chapter, because it excludes from love and communion many eminent parts of the Church; even so much of the Church and body of Christ as extends beyond subjection and obedience to the Papacie: And indeed, this Champions allegations doe so fight for us against his owne Papacie, that a suspicious Reader may doubt hee hath been hired by us.
But by the next allegation, perchance, hee thinkes his suspicion may be somewhat cleered, where thus hee commenteth in the behalfe of his mother:
Saint Hierome writing to Pope Damasus, saith (not onelyonly of the cathol…ck Church indefinitely, but denoting that to bee the Roman) that that Church is the Arke, out of which whosoever liveth, shall bee drowned in the deluge; and, that that Church is the House, out of which whosoever should eate the Lambe, were a profane person. But doth Hierome here denote the catholick Church both for breadth and length to be Roman; and no Church to be catholick which was not Roman, that is, under the Roman subjection? this was farre from his meaning: Hee meant that at that time the Roman Church was,Ecclesia Occidentalis sive Romana, &c. Catholicae Ecclesiae non contemnendum membrum. Cass. de Off. pii viri. by one faith, the same with the catholick Church, an… in union with it as a member of the body; and that out of this one Church, wherewith Rome was then one in faith, there was no salvation.
Secondly, Hee did not say that that Church shall bee the Arke out of which shall bee no salvation: but that Church is the Ark…; shewing what it then was, and not what it shall be.
Indeed, the Papacie, (even the Man of sinne, the Head and his members in the Mystery of iniquity) now call themselves the Church of Rome: But Rome at the best had never Religion and the Church faster tyed to it, then Jerusalem; and therefore we may take leave to say of Rome as it was said of Jerusalem,Esay 1.21. How is the faithfull Citie become an Harlot? It hath been manifestly proved, that this Mysterie of iniquitie or Papacie is farre different from the ancient Church of Rome; and Saint Hierome himselfe hath taught us, that Rome should bee the seate of Antichrist: and hee did not meane, that when Rome is the seate of Antichrist, shee should bee taken for the Arke out of which no man should bee saved: Therefore this place that made for Rome then, while shee was a pure part of the catholick Church, makes against her now, when she is the seate of the Man of sin, or Antichrist; and they that might be invited to come to her then, as an eminent part of the Arke and catholick Church, may now bee driven out from her by a voice from heaven,Rev. 18.4. Come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
There follow two places out of Lactantius, whereof the first indeed saith for us, and against these Romists that are divided from us and our Church: That they that enter not into the Temple of God, or depart out of it, shall bee deprived of the hope of salvation. But the second place, I know not how it may serve for the point in hand, but it otherwise is an wholesome exhortation for Romists; and I wish it may doe good to the Author: No man must flatter himselfe with an obstinate kinde of contention for the questions here, about salvation and life; which, if it bee not watchfully and diligently provided for, it will be extinct and lost.
The Cavalier ends in a tempest, which he puls downe on his own head; S. Fulgentius hath this dreadfull saying, wherewith I will conclude this point, &c. where he brings in Fulgentius saying, That neither Baptisme, nor Almes, nor Martyrdome can be of any benefit towards his salvation that holds not unity with the Church. A place indeed that ought to be dreadfull to the Romists, for their Schism described in the second Chapter; but no way dreadfull to us, for our catholick Charity expressed in the first.
SECT. III.
The Cavaliers indeavour to prove that the Protestants and Papists cannot bee both members of this one Church, doth not absolve the Papists from uncharitablenesse.
ANd having thus concluded the Allegations, hee thus gives a reason of his conclusion; Nor will I so much distrust either the attention or the discretion of my Reader, as to thinke that I need presse this point any further. A saying good at last, but much better at first; for if there had bin at first no distrust of the Readers discretion, there had beene no neede of any one of those Allegations, which have beene brought forth to prove a point not denyed: There is but one Church, out of which there is no salvation. But let us see what immediatly followes: So that now in the next place it will onelyonly remaine to be considered and resolved, whether or no both the Catholickes and the Protestants can bee truly said to bee parts and members of this one and selfe same Church. For if they cannot, the case in question is already judged, and there will be no colour of Reason, why either of us should hereafter be charged with want of charity, for affirming that the other is not saveable without repentance of his Religion. Behold a knot of strange things knit together by an invisible cohaerence, or a visible incohaerence. For first, whereas he saith, that in the next place It will onelyonly remaine to be considered, whether the Protestants and Romists may bee truly said to be parts and members of this one Church: For my part I am utterly of opinion that this doth neither in the next place, nor at all remaine to bee considered toward the Authors end, which is the saving of Rome from uncharitablenesse in damning Protestants.
For Protestants may bee members of the true Church wherein is salvation, and Romists may be out of it; and yet Romists may bee uncharitable for damning Protestants, who are in the Church wherein is salvation. But since hee is out of the way, I will thus shew it to him: His way of cleering Rome from this charge of uncharitablenesse, hath been hitherto by proving it an untruth; and his way of proving it an untruth, by proving that Protestants are truely in the way of damnation: And to prove this againe, hee hath shewed, that there is but one Church in which is salvation, and from which men are excluded by Heresie and Schisme.
Now as I thinke, in the next place, to goe on in his way hee should prove that Protestants are guilty of such Heresie and Schisme as separate them from this one Church, and so from salvation: For then had hee slaine them out-right with a true damnation, and had saved his mother Rome from S. Iohns truly mortall uncharitablenesse. But it seemes wee are cleere in these points, and therefore the Author would not goe against his conscience in a false accusation; wherefore let his silence bee taken for a consent and confession: But then it seemes the question is at an end, we are absolved, and Rome is condemned.
And indeed so it should bee; but hee is resolved still to say on, though not to the purpose; For to what purpose is this, that the Protestants and Romists are not one Church, toward proving Protestants to bee in the state of Damnation, whereby onelyonly Rome can save her selfe from uncharitablenesse in damning us? Surely, this is so far from proving Protestants to bee in the state of damnation, that it is more likely to prove them to bee in the state of salvation, and Romists in damnation. For Protestants being parts of the true Church, by true faith and love are sure to be saved; and Romists not being of this Church wherein Protestants are saved, are by his owne Allegations in danger to be damned: So Romists are both brought into the danger of damnation, and the charge of uncharitablenesse layd on the Romists may still stand true, because they falsely damne Protestants for being in the state of salvation.
A second strange position is this, That if the Protestants and Romists, bee not of one Church, then there will be no colour of reason, why either party should be charged with want of charity for affirming that the other is not saveable without repentance of his Religion: For there is neither reason, verity, nor charity in affirming that Protestants who may be saved by their Religion, are not saveable without repentance of the same Religion. But this vanity if not impiety, hath beene blowne away in the answer to his third Chapter. But if this unreasonable position bee taken out of the way, which is made the ground and reason of the future discourse (concerning Protestants and Romists being of two Religions) then the discourse built on it falls to the ground▪ for indeede to what purpose is it to prove that Protestants and Romists are of two Religions, except the Author may hereby save Romists from uncharitablenesse, in falsly condemning the Protestants for being in a good religion, different from their owne bad Popery? For that is his errand, and this errand hath hee lost in losing this last monstrous position, which hee made for a bridge to his errands end.
So, for ought I see, this Cavalier is at the end of his journey in the midst of his way; and the rest of his walke is a wandring, and this voyage a sayling up and downe from his harbour.