Dialogue Between a Popish Priest and an English Protestant, Title page – To the reader 2
A DIALOGUE BETWEEN A Popish Priest AND An English Protestant. WHEREIN The Principal Points and Arguments of both RELIGIONS are truly Proposed and fully Examined.
By MATTHEW POOLE Minister of the Gospel.
The Last Edition corrected and amended.
LONDON: Printed by E. Cotes, and are to be sold by S. Tompson at the Bishops-Head in Duck Lane, 1667.
TO THE READER.
THE variety and differences of Religion, between Protestant and Papist, distract the minds and trouble the hearts of all that have any sense of Religious Concernments. In this distraction every serious man that hath any care of his Souls health, cannot choose but heartily desire and seek for resolution: To obtain this, there can be no better way than to understand and examine the Pretensions and Grounds of both Religions: In order to this, I have endeavoured faithfully to represent, and duly to weigh them in the following Discourse.
Wherein though I have not discussed all the Points in Controversie between us and them, yet I have selected the most material, and have discoursed of most, if not all, their weighty and plausible Arguments against the Protestant Religion. And this, I may say, and no knowing Papist, I think, will deny it; all the other Points will follow the fate of those which are here examined, and live or die with them. I know it will be pretended, that I have managed the Work with partiality and deceit, and that I make the Papist speak what I please, not what they think. This must be said of course, else the Romanists, lose their old wont: Nor shall I, at all think it strange, if in stead of solid Answers, they return Calumnies: their cause requires it; and no wonder if they that want Truth in their Religion, make lies their Refuge.
To silence all clamours, and satisfie all jealousies will be impossible, I shall never attempt it.
But for satisfaction of such as are rational and ingenuous, I shall give this following account.
1. God is my witness, that I did diligently endeavour to pick out the strongest Arguments I could find in their best Authors in each Point; nor have I willingly declined any thing of moment in the Questions here debated: If any Papist think otherwise, let him produce their greater strength, and I hope he shall find it fairly examined.
2. The several Discourses, Arguments and Answers which I put into the Papists mouth; are such as were first taken out of their mouths, and so it is but a piece of Iustice and Restitution to return them thither. They are generally such as are either known to be their opinions, and by themselves owned, or else delivered in the sense, and very oft in the words, of their most approved Authors, whom I have quoted in the margent: But here I expect the old clamour of false Quotations, wherein they have been so often taken tardy, that they must now look for the common infelicity of—not to be believed if they should chance to stumble upon Truth. All the relief I desire in that case is, that the Reader who is able to do it, would examine them with his own eyes, and that will be my best justification. I shall detain thee no longer, but commend thee to the good Spirit of Truth to enable thee to discern between good and evil.
TO THE PEOPLE OF THE Romish Church.
THE Controversies between your Church and ours, are by Gods blessing upon the endeavours of his Ministers, brought to this pass, that I am perswaded there is nothing wanting to the Conviction of divers of you, but a free and diligent perusal of theri Books, without prejudice and partiality: This your Priests knowing, it is their great design to keep you from looking into them; and to that end, to possess you with this Principle, That you need not trouble your selves to inquire into Books, you are safe enough, so long you believe as the Church believes, and follow the Guidance of your Priests and Fathers: if this be an Errour, it is a dangerous one, and may prove Damnable; That it is so, and that it will prove but a broken reed, when you lean upon it, I hope you will see there is reason to believe, if you will but do your souls that justice, not prodigally to cast them away upon blind and wilful mistakes, and take the pains to read these ensuing lines.
1. If your Church be not infallible, then this Principle is rotten; howsoever, you cannot with safety or discretion venture your souls on it, till you have examined at least this one point of the Churches Infallibility: do but examine that, and if you do not stifle both Reason and Conscience, you will see it is a meer cheat.
2. If the Church (that is, a Pope with a Council) were infallible (which is all that your great Champions plead for) yet all confess, that your particular Priests (upon whose conduct you hazard your eternal wel-fare) are fallible and subject to mistakes. It is most certain that divers of your Priests and Confessors lead you into many (and some …f them damnable) Errours. Thousands of …our Priests and learned Doctors do charge the Iesuits with poysoning the souls of the people with divers pestilent and damnable errours, such as these: That a man may venture his soul upon any probable opinion, and that is probable, which but one of their learned Doctors affirm. That a private man may kill his enemy to maintain his honour, though not by way of revenge. That a Priest may absolve even old and inveterate sinners, and such as he believes incorrigible. That affliction or sorrow for sin, arising meerly from fear of punishments, is sufficient for salvation: and, that the affection of loving God is not absolutely necessary to salvation. All these and many more are clearly proved out of their own words and writings in the Provincial letters, otherwise called, the Mystery of Iesuitisme: See the Latine Edition set forth and defended by Wendrockius. Now if the Iesuits may, and do, so damnably deceive those thousands of you that depend upon their counsel and conduct, why may not other Orders deceive you in other things? Or what is there that can give you any reasonable security? Is it their learning, prudence, pretended devotion, or honesty, or any other such like quality? Why, divers of the Iesuits have given as plausible testimony of those things (so far as men can judge) as most of the other Orders; or will you say, all other Orders are infallible, the Iesuits only excepted?
3. Nothing can be more evident (if the Bible be the word of God) than that the errour or misguidance of the Priest, will not excuse the sin of the people. To satisfie you in this, I beseech you consider these few reasons.
1. The Scripture condemns, and God severely punished those people, which did follow the errours of their Priests. This did not excuse the Jews in Aarons time, that they were misled by Aaron, Exod. 32. nor those in the times of the wicked Kings of Israel and Judah, that their Priests did universally deceive them, and poor Elijah, and so Michaiah, were left alone; nor those in Malachy's daies, that the Priests caused them to stumble at the Law, Malac, 2. 8. nor the Crucifiers of Christ, that they obeyed the decrees of their Priests and Rulers.
I list not to repeat what I have said elsewhere: therefore read Nullity of Romish Faith ch. 2. sect. 12. And will you yet stumble at the same stone!
2. The people will not be excused by their Priests misguidance, because they neglect their duty. If indeed there were no duty incumbent upon the people but to believe what your Priests say, and do what they require, then your Church speaks reason. But that none but a mad man will say.
There are several duties required of the People, no less than of the Priests; the Law of God was not given only to the Priests, but to all the People; God publisheth this law in the hearing of all the people, and speaks in the singular number to every one of the people, thou shalt do or forbear this or that; and the curse is threatned to the people, Deut. 27. 26. Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them, and all the people shall say Amen. Which the Apostle repeats, Gal. 3. 10. Cursed is every one, not Priests only, but the People too, that continueth not in all things which are written in this book of the law to do them. If the Priests then should have taught the Israelites (as your Priests now teach you) thou shalt worship a graven image, when God saith, thou shalt not worship a graven image: can any serious man think this would have freed them from that curse; and that it was safer for them to obey the Command of men than of God? O the impudence of your Priests that dare say so! O the blockishness of those people that will believe them when they say so! your Pope may well contend with us, for it seems your Priests will contest with God for Supremacy: When the Priests and Prophets in Isaiahs daies were generally corrupt, the people are not advised to believe all that they taught, and to obey all that they decreed (which is the strain of your Church) but are commanded immediately to go to the law and to the testimony, and if any speak not according to them, they are to be rejected, because there is no light in them, Isa. 8. 20. Even people are required not to believe every spirit, but to try the spirits, 1 John 4. 1. Nor did the Apostles exempt themselves and their doctrines from this Tryal, but allowed, commended, and required it in the people.
The Beraeans are not reproved and censured (as they would certainly be, that should tread in their steps at Rome) but commended for examining the Doctrine of S. Paul by the Scripture, Acts 17. 11. And the same Apostle allows the Galatians, not only to try his Doctrines, whether they were agreeable to what they had received; but in case they find them contrary, he gives them Commission to censure and anathemize him, Gal. 1. 8, 9. And he bespeaks the Corinthians in this language, I speak to wise men, judge you what I say, 1 Cor. 10. 15. And he commands the Thessalonians to prove all things (without exception) as well as to hold fast that which is good, 1 Thess. 5. 21. Consider these things, I beseech you, and do not wilfully cast away your precious souls upon trifles. God hath given the Scripture as a rule to try things by (and this was written for the Ignorant, and the people, as well as the learned, and the Priests, John 20. 31.) he hath given people reason to try things with, if you will hide these Talents in a Napkin, at your peril be it. The Prince was commanded to read and meditate in the Book of the Law, that he might observe to do all that is written therein, Iosh. 1. 8. Can you seriously think that if the corrupt Priests had agreed to teach him to do contrary to all that was written therein, that this would have excused him before God? then that Precept was both superfluous and dangerous; and if you do not think so, (as you must needs if you have any Conscience) then neither will it excuse your people; for according to the Doctrine of your Church, Prince and People are alike in this, both tied to believe as your Church believes. God commands every Christian to prove his own work; and tells us, that every man shall bear his own burden, Gal. 6. 4, 5. and, that every man shall give an account of himself to God, Rom. 14. 12. (Do not think your Priests account shall serve turn) and all the Christian people of Corinth are commanded to examine themselves whether they be in the faith, 2 Cor. 13. 5. And dare you still live in the wilful breach of all these Commands, and blindly give up your Souls▪ and Consciences by an implicite faith, to the conduct of your Priests to lead them whether they please?
3. The Scripture hath given you full warning of your danger. Read but two places, Ezek, 33. 8. (where God assures us, that the wicked shall die in his iniquity, though he perished through the Watchmans fault) and Matth. 15. 14. (where Christ confutes this very opinion of yours, which was also the opinion of the Jews, that they were safe enough while they folowed their Priests Decrees and Counsels: and tells them. If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the Ditch) and doubt of this, if you can or dare.
In a word, if this senceless Doctrine were true, not only Men would have dominion over our Faith, contrary to express Scripture; (Be not ye called Masters, for one is your Master, even Christ, Matth. 23. 10. Not that we have dominion over your faith, said the great Apostle) but also Christ should lose his dominion, and have no authority in his Church, but as your Priests please; and it seems he shall not have this favour from you, to continue in his Office quamdiu bene se gesserit, but quamdiu vobis placuerit; and Christs power is apparently limited to your Interpretation; but the power of your Church is absolute and unlimited, and the People obliged to believe them, quamcunque sententiam tulerint, whatsoever they shall decree, as Gretser expresseth it. If this be not to make the word and Authority of God and Christ void, through your Traditions, I know not what is. I will trouble you no further. If you be capable of Counsel, take warning, and suffer not your selves to be lead hoodwinckt to Hell, to serve a Carnal Interest of some among you; but quit your selves like men, and by the grossness of this delusion, learn to suspect the rest; and with humble and honest hearts, read what is here proposed to you for your Souls good, and God give you light. Let my Soul prosper no otherwise than I heartily wish the good and salvation of you all; but if you will still persist in your blindness, and add further obstinacy to your Errours, I shall comfort my self in this, that I have delivered my own soul, your blood be upon your own head, for there it will assuredly fall, and not upon the Priests only.
Mr. POOLE'S Dialogue.