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The Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance · John Owen

The Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance, Chapter 13

CAP. XIII.

1. The maintainers and propagators of the severall Doctrines under contest, taken into consideration. 2. The necessity of so doing from M. G. undertaking to make the comparison. This inquiry confined to those of our own Nation. 3. The chiefe Assertors of this Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance in this Nation since it received any opposition, what was their Ministry, and what their Lives. 4. M.G's plea in this case. 5. The first Objection against his Doctrine by him proposed, Second, and Third. 6. His Answers to these Objections considered. Removed: His own Word and Testimony offer'd against the experience of Thousands. 7. The Persons pointed to by him, and commanded, considered. 8. The principles of those Persons he opposeth vindicated. 9. Of the Doctrine of the Primitive Christians, as to this head of Religion. Grounds of mistake in reference to their judgements. 10. The first Reformers constant to themselves in their Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance. 11. Of the influence of M. Perkins his judgement on the propagation of the Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance. 12. Who the Persons were on whom his judgement is supposed to have such an influence. 13. The consent of Forraine Churches making void this surmize. 14. What influence the Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance had into the holinesse of its Professors. 15. Of the unworthinesse of the Persons who in this Nation have Asserted the Doctrine of Apostasy: the suitablenesse of this Doctrine to their practises. 16. Mr G. attempt to take off this charge. 17. How farre mens Doctrines may be judged by their lives. 18. Mr G's Reasons why Episcopalise, Arminianised, the first. 19. Considered and disproved. 20. His discord, &c. 21. Generall Apostasy of men entertaine the Arminian tenents. 22. The close.

AS to the matter in hand,§. 1. about the usefulnesse of the Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, in, and unto the Ministry of the Gospell, and the obstruction pretended to be laid unto it thereby, It may be somewhat conducing and of Concernment to consider who the Persons are, and were, and what hath been and is the presence of God with them, in their Ministry who have been Assertors and Zealous maintainers of this Doctrine: And withall who they were, and what they have been in their Ministry, and the Dispensation of the Word committed unto them, who have risen up in opposition thereunto; How also those different Partyes have approved their Profession to the World, and acquitted themselves in their Generation in their walking with God, may be worth our Consideration; doubtlesse, if the Doctrine, whose declaration and defence we have thus far ingaged in, be of such a pernicious tendency, as is pretended, so destructive to Gospell Obedience, and so evidently rendering that great Ordinance of the Ministry uselesse, it may be traced to its product of these effects, in some measure, in the Lives, Conversations and Ministry of those, who have most zealously espoused it, most earnestly contended for it, and been most given up to the forme and mould thereof. It were a thing every way miraculous if any Roote should for the most part bring forth fruite disagreeing to the nature of it.

A Taske this is,§. 2. (I confesse) which were we not necessitated unto, I could easily dispence with my selfe from ingaging therein. But (Mr Goodwin having voluntarily entred the list, as to this particular and instated a comparison, between the Abbettors of the severall Doctrines under Contest, (Chap. 9. of his Booke, (a matter we should not have expected, from any other man) it could not, but be thought a grosse neglect, of duty, and high ingratitude, towards those great & Blessed Soules, who in former and latter dayes, with indefatigable, pains and eminent successe watred the Vineyard of the Lord, with the dew of this Doctrine, to decline the Consideration of the comparison made, and dressed up to our hand. Now because it is a peculiar taske allotted to us, to manifest the imbracement of this Truth, by those who in the Primitive Church, were of greatest note and Eminency for Piety, Judgement, and skill in dividing the Word aright, with the Professed Opposition made unto it, by such, as those with whom they Lived, and succeeding Ages, have branded for men unsound in the Faith, and leaving the good old Paths, wherein the Saints of old found peace to their Soules: As also to manifest the receiving & propagation of it, by all (not any one of name excepted) those Great & Famous Persons whom the Lord was pleased to imploy in the Reformation of his Church, walking in this, as in sundry other particulars, closer up to the Truth of the Gospell, than some of their Brethren, that at the same time fell off from that Church, which was long before fallen off from the Truth, I shall in my present inquiry, confine my selfe to those of our owne Nation, who have been of Renowne in their Generation for their Labour in the Lord, and of name among the Saints for their worke in the service of the Gospell.

For the one halfe of that small space of time,§. 3. which is passed since the breaking forth of the light of the Gospell in this Nation, we are disenabled from persuing the Comparison instituted: The one part being not to be considered, or at least not being considerable; The time when first Head was made against the Truth we professe, and Criminations like those managed by Mr Goodwin hatched and contrived to Assault it withall, was, when it had been eminently delivered to the Saints of this Nation, and all the Churches of Christ, by Reinolds, Whitakers, Greenham and others like to them, their fellow labourers in the Lords Vineyard. The poore weake Wormes of this present Generation, who imbrace the same Doctrine with these men of name, are thought to be free (some of them at least) from being destroyed by the poysonous and pernicious embracing of it, by their owne weakenesse and disability, to discerne the naturall genuine Consequences and Tendency, in the progresse of that, which in the Roote and Foundation they imbrace. Their ignorance of their owne Doctrine in its compas, & Extent, is the Mother of that Devotion, which in them, is nourished thereby. So our great Masters tell us, against whose Kingly Authority in these things there is no rising up. For the Persons formerly named, the like reliefe cannot be supposed. He that shall provide an Apology for them, Affirming that they understood not the state, nature, consequences, and tendences of the Doctrines they received, defended, preached contended for, will scarce be able by any following defensative, to vindicate his owne credit, for so doing. In the lives then and the Ministry of those men, and such as those, if any where are the fruits of this Doctrine to be seene. If it corrupted not their lives, nor weakned their Ministry, if it turned not them aside from the pathes of Gospell Obedience, nor weakened their hands in the Dispensation of the Word, in the Promises, Threatnings and Exhortations thereof, to the Conversion of soules, and building up of those who by their Ministry were called, in their most holy Faith, it cannot but be a strong presumption, that there is no such venomous infectious quality in this Doctrine, as of late some Chimicall Divines pretend themselves to be able to extract out of it: Now what I pray were these men? What were their Lives? What was their Ministry? All those who now oppose Mr Goodwin's Doctrine, do it either out of Ignorance, or to Comply with Greatnesse, and men in Authority, thereby to make up themselves in their Ambitious and worldly aymes, and to prevaile themselves upon the opinion of men: for what cause else in the world can be imagined why they should so ingage? what though they really believed, the whole fabricke of his Doctrine wherein he hath departed from the Faith, he once (as they say) professed, to be a lye; A lye of dangerous and pernitious Consequence to the soules of men, a lye derogatory to the Glory of God, the efficacy of Grace, the merit of the Death of Christ, and the honour of the Gospell, and full of disconsolation to poore soule…; being in and under Temptation. What though they suppose it secretly to undermine the maine fundamentals of the Covenant of Grace, and covertly to substitute another Covenant in the Roome thereof, what though they have observed that the Doctrine they have received, was Imbraced, Preached, prized, by all those great and blessed soules, which in the last Generation, God magnified with the conversion of so many thousands in this Nation, given into their Ministry whilst they spent their dayes under continuall Aflictions & persecutions? what though they have the generall known consent of all the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas with them, in their zeale for the Doctrine under consideration? What though under these & the like apprehensions, they profes in the presence of God, his holy Angels and men, that the eternall Interest of the precious soules of men, is more valuable to them ten thousand times than their owne lives, and that that is the sole Reason of their opposition to M. … in his attempts against the Doctrine they have so received and imbraced, yet it is meet for us to Judge, and for all to whom evill surmises are not esteemed to be among the workes of the flesh, that all their opposition, is nothing but a cō plyance with, and pursuit of those worldly low and wretched aimes, that they are filled withall. But as to those Persons before mentioned, what shall we say? Their Piety, Literature, Zeale, Diligence, Industry, Labour with successe in the worke of the Ministry, (and that under manifold discouragements) are so renowned in the world, that how or wherewith they shall be shifted of, from being considerable in their Testimony, I cannot imagine. If ever Persons in these latter Ages had written upon their breasts, Holynesse to the Lord, If ever any bare about, a conformity to the Death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, they may put in for an eminent esteeme, and name among them; & will doubtlesse be found at last to be of the thirty, if they attaine not to the first Ranke of the Worthyes of Christ in these ends of the world. How is it that they were not retarded, in the course of their Gospell Obedience, by their entertainement of this wretched Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance? But what though they kept themselves Personally from the pollution of it yet possibly their Ministry was defiled and rendered uselesse by it. And who I pray is it that in this Generation can so support himselfe with successe in the Ministry, as to rise up with this accusation against them? Many thousands who were their Crowne, their Glory, and Rejoycing in Christ, are fallen a sleepe, and some Continue to this day. Of the Reasons given by Mr Goodwin why all the Zealous, Fruitfull, Faithfull Preachers, of former dayes, imbraced this Doctrine, we shall instantly undertake the Consideration. In the meane time this seems strange, that God should magnify, and make famous the Ministry of so many, throughout the world, and give in that visible blessing to their Labours therein, which hath filled this Island with such an increase of Children to Sion, as that she hath not lengthned the cords of her Tabernacle, to such an extent and compasse, in any proportionable spot of earth under Heaven, if any one eminent part of their Doctrine, and that whereon they lay'd great weight in their Ministry, which they pressed with as much fervency and contention of Spirit as any head of the like importance, should indeed be so apparently destructive of Holinesse, and of such a direct and irresistible efficiency to render uselesse that great Ordinance of the Ministry committed to them, as this is clamoured to be. What will be the successe of them, in their Ministry, who shall undertake to deny and oppose it, I hope the People of God in this Nation, will not have many Instances to Judge by: The best conjecture, we can for the present make of what will be hereafter, must be taken from what hath already come to passe; and the best guesse of what events will be, are to be raised from the consideration of what hath been; from a like disposition of Causes, to an Answerablenesse of Events.

What Mr Goodwin hath to plead in this Case he insists on,§. 4. Chap. 9. Sect. 24, 25, 26, 27. Pag. 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172. The summe and aime of his Discourse, is to Apologize for his Doctrine against sundry Objections, which in the Observations of men it is lyable and obnoxious unto. Now these are such as whatever the Issue of their Consideration prove, doubtlesse it can be of no Advantage unto his Cause, that his Doctrine is so readily exposed to them.

The first of these is,§. 5. that the Doctrine he Opposeth, and in Opposition whereunto that is set up, which he so industriously asserts, hath generally been received and imbraced, by men eminent in Piety and Godlinesse, famous on that account in their Generations, with the generality of the People of God, with them. And this is attended with that which naturally insues thereon, viz. The Scandalousnesse of the most of them (yea of them all of this Nation is it spoken, who have formerly asserted the Doctrine which Mr Goodwin hath lately espoused; Whereunto in the third place an Observation is subjoyned, of the Ordinary defection of men to loose and unsavory practises, after they have once drunke in the principles of that opinion, which he now so industriously mixeth and tempereth for them; It is usually said there is no smoake, but where there is some fire; It would be strange if such Observations as these, should be readily and generally made by men, concerning the Doctrine under Contest, unlesse there were some evident occasion Administred by it thereuto. And I must needs say, that if they prove True, and hold under Examination, they will become as urging a prejudice, as can lightly be laid against any cause in Religion whatsoever. The Gospell being a Doctrine according unto Godlinesse, severall perswasions pretending to be parts and portions thereof, if one shall be found to be the constant Faith, and profession of those, who also have the life and power of Godlinesse in them; the other to be maintained by evill men aud seducers, who upon their receiving it, doe also wax worse and worse; it is no small advantage to the first, in its plea for admittance to the right and title of a truth of the Gospell.

To Evade this charge Mr Goodwin premises this in Generall.§. 6.

The experience Asserted in the Objection, is not so unquestionable in point of Truth, But that if the Asserters were put home upon the proofe, they would (I seare) (doubtlesse he rather hopes it) accompt, more in presumption than in reasonablenes of Argument: For if Persons of the one judgement, & of the other, were duly compared together, I verily believe there would be found every whit, as full a proportion of men, truly Conscientious and Religious, amongst those whose judgements stand, and have stood for a possibility of falling away, As on the other side: but through a foolish and unsavoury kind of partiality, we are apt, on all hands, according to the Proverb, to account our own Geese for Swannes, and other mens Swannes Geese; Certaine I am, that if the writings of men of the one judgement, and of the other, be compared together, and an estimate made from thence of the Religion, Worth, and Holinesse of the Authors respectively, Those who oppose the common Doctrine of Perseverance, doe account it no Robbery to make themselves every way equall in this honour with their opposers; The truth is, If it be lawfull for me to utter what I really apprehend, and judge in the case, I doe not find that spirit of holinesse, to breath with that Authority, height or Excellency of power, in the writings of the latter, which I am very sensible of in the writings of the former; These call for Righteousnesse, Holinesse, and all manner of Christian conversation, with every whit as high a hand as the other, and adde nothing to check, obstruct, or infeeble the Authority of their demands in this kind; when as the other, though they before many times in their exhortations, and conjurements unto holinesse; yet other while render both these and themselves in them, contemptible, by avouching such principles, which cut the very sinews, and strength of such their exhortations, and fully ballance all the weight of those motives, by which they seek to bind them upon the Consciences of men. And for men truly holy and Conscientious, doubtlesse the Primitive Christians for three hundred years together and upwards, next after the times of the Apostles, will fully ballance with an abundant surplusage, both for numbers, and truth of Godlinesse, All those in the Reformed Churches; who since Calvins daies, have adhered to the common Doctrine of Perseverance: And that the Churches of Christ more generally during the said space of three hundred years and more, held a possibility of a totall and finall defection, even in true and soun… Believers, is so cleare from the Records yet extant of those times, that it cannot be denied.

Ans. To let passe M. Goodwins Proverb, with its Applycation, (it being very facile to returne it to its Author, there being nothing in the World by him proposed, to induce us to such an estimation of his associates, in the work of teaching the Doctrine of the Saints Apostasy, and their labours therein, or any other undertaking of theirs, as he labours to beget, in guilding over their Worth and Writings, but only his own judgment, & an overweening of their Geese for Swans,) Let us see what is offered by him to evince the Experience Asserted, not to be so unquestionable as is pretended. He offers First, his own Affirmation, That if an estimate may be made of mens Worth and Holinesse by their writings, Those who oppose the Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance, will be found in the promotion of Holinesse, and the practice of it, to out goe their Adversaries. Their writings, he tells us, breath forth a spirit of holinesse, such as he cannot find in the writings of others; But first, for this you have only M. Goodwins naked single Testimony: And that, opposed to the common experience of the people of God; What weight this is like to beare with men, the event will shew. It is a hard thing for one man upon his bare word, to undertake to perswade a multitude, that what their eyes see, and their eares heare, is not so; M. Goodwin had need have Pythagorean Disciples for the imbracing of these dictates of his; The experience of Thousands, is placed to confirme the observation insisted on: saith M. Goodwin, It is not so, they are in my judgement all deceived. But,

Secondly,§: 7. who are they in whose writings Mr Goodwin hath found such a Spirit of Holinesse, breathing with Authority, as is not to be found out, nor perceived in the writings of them, that assert the Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints. Calvin, Zanchius, Beza, &c. (and to confine our selves home) Reynolds, Whitaker, Perkins, Greenham, Dodde, Preston, Boulton, Sibbs, Rogers, Collverwell, Cotton, &c. (whose fame upon this very account, of the eminent and effectuall breathing of a Spirit of Holynesse in their writings, is gone out into all the Nations about us, and their Remembrance is blessed at home and abroade,) are some of the men who have as hath been shewed, laboured in watering the Vineyard of the Lord, with the dew and raine of this Doctrine: Who, or where are they who have excelled them in this undertaking? Let the men be named, and the writings produced that Mr Goodwin, may have some joyned with him, in a search after, and Judgement of that Spirit that breathes so excellently in them, that we be not forced to take his Testimony of we know not what, nor whom; Those amongst our selves of cheifest name, who have appeared in the Cause that Mr Goodwin hath now undertaken, are Tompson, Mountagu &c. with an obscure Rabble of that Generation. I shall easily allow Mr Goodwin to be a man more sharpe sighted than the most of those with whom he hath to do, in this present contest; as also to have his sences more exercised, in the Writings of those eminent Persons last named; But yet that he is sensible of such a Spirit of Holines, breathing in their writings▪ which for the most part are stuffed with cruell scoffings at the Professours of it, and horrible contempt of all close walking with God) I cannot easily & readily believe; should he adde to them Arminius, with all that followed him, in the Low Countryes, their most Learned Corvinus, Drunke and Sober; As also such among the Papists, and Lutherans, as are his Companions in this worke, and swell thē all with the Rethorick of his commendations untill they breake, I dare say he will never be able before indifferent Judges, to make out his Assertion of the excellency of their writings, for the futherance of Holinesse, compared with the Labours of those great and holy Soules, who have both among our selves, and abroad; Laboured in the worke I am at present ingaged in. The World of men professing the Reformed Religion have long since in their Judgments determined this difference, nor doth it deserve any farther debate.

Secondly, That those who maintaine the Perseverance of the Saints, are sore indeed in their Exhortations to Holinesse, §: 8.but contemptible in their Principles upon which they should build those Exhortations, Is an insinuation that Mr Goodwin sometimes makes use of, handsomely to beg the thing in Question, when he despaires to carry it by any convincing Argument in a faire dispute: That the Principles of this Doctrine are eminently serviceable, to the furtherance and promotion of Holinesse, hath been formerly evinced beyond all possibility of Contradiction from them, who in any measure understand what true Godlinesse is, and wherein it doth consist. Neither ought Mr Goodwin if he would be esteemed as a man disputing for his perswasion, so often to begge the thing in Question; knowing fullwell, that he hath not so deserved of them with whom he hath to do, as to obtaine any thing of this nature, on those tearmes at their hands.

Thirdly,§. 9. what was the judgement of the Primitive Christians, as in others, so in and about this head of Christian Religion, is best known from that rule of Doctrine, which it is confessed they attended unto, being delivered unto them; and in the defence whereof, and to give Testimony whereto, so many Thousands of them, loved not their lives unto death. Of those that committed over to posterity, any thing of their thoughts, in that space of time limited by M. Goodwin, (viz. three hundred years,) he names but two; of whom I shall not say, that if they failed in their Apprehensions of the Truth in this matter, It is not the only thing wherein they so failed; And yet that it can be evident in the least, that they were consenting in judgement with M. Goodwin, wherewith from us he differs, is absolutely denied. This elsewhere is already farther considered. It is a common observation, and not destitute of a great evidence of Truth, that the Liberty of Expression which is used by men in the delivery of any Doctrine, especially if it be done obiter by the way, before some opposition hath been framed, and stated thereunto, hath given advantage to those following of them, (when death hath prevented all possibility for them to explaine themselves, and their own thoughts) to draw them into a participation with them, in that, which their Soules abhorred. The plea of Arius and his Associats, concerning the judgement of the Doctors of the Church, in the daies before him, about the great Article of our Faith, The Diety of Christ, is known. That there are in many of the Ancients, sundry expressions seemingly varying from that Doctrine we Assert, upon the account of their different apprehensions of the tearmes, of Faith, being Regenerated, Holinesse, and the like, (which are all of them still with us, as in the Scripture, of various significations, and not clearely expressive of any one sence intended by them, untill distinguished) is not denyed. Speaking of all those who had been Baptized, and made profession of their Faith as Believers, it is no wonder if they granted that some Believers might fall away. But yet in the meane time the most eminent of them, constantly affirmed that there is a sort of Believers, who upon the matter with them, were the only true and Reall Believers (being such as we formerly described) that could not fall either totally or finally; but as for this I hope full satisfaction is tendered, the Learned Reader in the Preface of this Discourse. So that these Exceptions notwithstanding, the prejudices that Mr Goodwin's Doctrine labours under, from the opposition made to it, and against it, in the defenee of that which it riseth up to overthrow, by that Generation of the Saints of God, lyes upon the shoulders thereof, as a burthen to heavy for it to beare.

Secondly,§. 10. Mr Goodwin farther proceeds, Sect. 27 to informe us of some other mistakes in the instance given, to make good the former observation, For as for Calvin, Musculus, Martyr, Bucer, with the Ministers of this Nation who in the last Generation so Zealously opposed, the persecutions and innovations of some returning with speed and violence to Rome, He tells us they were very farre from having their Judgments settled, as to the Doctrine under contest so as resolvedly to have imbraced the one, and rejected the other.

I should willingly walke in the heigh way for the manifestation and cleare eviction of the untruth of this suggestion: viz. by producing their Testimonyes in abundant plentifull manner to, confirme their clearenesse and Resolution in the Truth we professe, with their Zealous indeavours for the establishment, confirmation and propagation of it, but that some few Considerations, delivered me from ingaging in so facile a taske. For

First I am not able to perswade my selfe, that any man who ever read the writings of the first sort of men mentioned, and knowes the constant Doctrine to this day, of the Churches which they planted and watered, or ever did heare of the latter, will entertaine this Assertion of Mr Goodwins with any thing but Admiration, upon what grounds he should make it. And

Secondly, Himselfe discovering in part on what account he doth it, namely because of their Exhortations to watchfulnesse, carefulnesse, and close walking with God, with their denuntiations of threatnings to them, that abide not in the Faith, which he fancyes to be inconsistent with the Doctrine of Perseverance, so as by him opposed (which inconsistency we have long since fully manifested, to be the issue & offspring of his owne imagination, begotten of it by the cunning Sophystry of his Pelagian Friends) I know not why I should farther insist upon the wiping away of this Reproach, cast upon those Blessed Soules whom God so magnified in the worke of the Gospell of his Sonne in their Generation; I remember Navaret a Dominican Fryer, upon his Observation of the subtiltyes of the Jesuits, to wrest many sayings of the Ancients in favour of their Opinions, in those Doctrines wherein those two Orders are at variance, Affirmes That he was afraid that when he was dead, although he had written & disputed so much against them, they would produce him for a Testimony and Witnesse on their side. What he feared concerning himselfe, Mr Goodwin hath attempted, concerning many more worthy Persons: cutting off sentences from what goes before, and followes after, restrayning generall expressions, imposing his owne Hypothesis on his Reader, in making application of what he quotes out of any Author, he hath spent one whole Chapter to perswade the world, that men of as great Abilityes & Judgments, as any in the world, since the Apostles fell a sleepe, have usually exprest themselves, in a direct contradiction, to what they are eminently and notoriously knowne, as their professed deliberate Judgments, to have maintained.

Secondly He farther informes us,§: 11. how this Doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, came to be so generally entertained by the Godly, Zealous & Able Ministers of this Nation, that when we see how they fell into it, their Testimony given thereto, may be of the lesse validity withus.

This (he telleth you) was the Permission of M. Perkins his Judgment, to be overruled by the Texts of Scripture commonly insisted on for the proofe of this Doctrine, the great worth of the Person commended therefore the worth of the Opinion, & he verily believeth, as men were then induced to receive this Opinion, s… to a relinquishment of it, they went nothing but the countenance and Authorty of so… Person of popular acceptance to go before them; And the Reason he giveth of this his Faith is, the Observation of the Principles they usually hold forth, especially in the Applicatory part of their Sermons.

Ans. What,§: 12. and who they were, who are thus represented by Mr Goodwin, in their receiving and imbracing of that Doctrine, which with the great travell of their Soules all their dayes they Preached and pressed to, and upon others, is knowne to all. The Persons I named before, (one of them only excepted) with all those eminent, burning, and shining Lights, which for so many yeares have laboured with Renowne and successe, to the astonishment of the world in the Preaching of the Gospell in this Nation, are the men intended. Doubtlesse such thoughts have not in former dayes been entertained of them, however the contemplation of any mans owne ability may now raise him to contempt of them. M. Perkins received this Doctrine, and therefore all the Godly Ministers of this Nation did so to. If any one of the like esteeme with him did fall off from it; (Now whom they should obtaine to lead them, of equall reputation and acceptance with him who hath in vaine attempted it, I know not,) they would quickly follow, (not like Shepheards but Sheep) into an opposition thereunto. Those who have not very slight thoughts of thē, which doubtlesse they that are fallen a sleep did not deserve, will scarcely suppose that they entertained a Truth of so great importance as this upon so easie tearmes as these insinuated; or that they would have parted with it, at so cheape a rate.

Farther,§. 13. why the Ministers of England should be thought to entertaine this Doctrine meerely upon the Authority and countenance of Mr Perkins given thereunto, when the universality of the Teachers of all other Reformed Churches, of the same confession in other things with them, did also embrace the same Doctrine, and do continue in profession of it to this day, what reason can be assigned? Had there been a particular inducement to the Ministers of England for the receiving of it, which was altogether forraigne unto them, who as to our Nation are forraigners, whence is it that there should be such a a coincidence of their Judgments with them therein? Or why may not ours be thought to take it upon the same account with them, upon whose Judgements & understandings the Authority of Mr Perkins cannot be supposed to have any influence? Is M. G. the only Person, who, in this Nation hath impartially weighed all things of concernement, to the refusing or imbracing any matters or Doctrines in Religion? Have no other in the sincerity of their hearts s…earched the Scriptures, & earnestly begged the guidance of the Spirit, according to that incouraging Promise left by their Master, that they should receive him so doing? The good Lord take away from us all high thoughts of our selves, and all contempt of them that professe the Feare of the Lord, with whom we have to do. For the Reason of Mr Goodwin's Faith in this thing, concerning the readinesse of the Godly Ministers of this Nation, to Apostatize from the Doctrine of the Saints Perseverance, namely, their manifesting themselves to be possessed of many Principles of a contrary tendency unto it, in the applicatory parts of their Sermons; the vanity of it hath been long since discovered; so that there is no farther need to lay open the unreasonablenesse thereof.

M. Goodwin mistrusting his ability to perswade men,§. 14. that the Persons of whom he hath discoursed were not cleare in their Judgments, as to an opposition to that Doctrine which he positively owneth, and zealously contendeth for, and knowing that it cannot be denyed but that they were men of eminency for Godlinesse, and close walking in Communion with God all their dayes: Yet he excepteth as his last refuge, That it cannot be manifested, that this Opinion had the least influence in their pious conversation, which is wholly to be ascribed to other commendable Principles that they embraced. This indeed may be said of any part of the Doctrine whatsoever that they received, & some of them suffered for. Atheists may say it, of the whole profession of Christianity, & ascribe the goodnes of the lives of the best of them that professe it, to some other principles common to them with the residue of mankind, & not at all to any of those whereby they are distingunished, as such. This they professed to have a powerfull Efficacy to prevaile with them for that exactnesse in walking with God, which by his Grace they attained unto. And why they should not be believed herein, as farre a sany men whatever, bearing the like Testimony to any Doctrine whatever, I know not. Besides the intendment of this instance of the Persons and their Piety who formerly Believed, and spake forth this Doctrine, was, to manifest by an eminent experiment, that there was not in it, nor is, any tendency to a contrary frame unto Piety & Holines, which it is injuriously charged withall; & if by the consideration thereof, we do not obtaine that it hath a proper and direct serviceablenesse to the promotion of Godlinesse, yet at least we have a convincing demonstration that it is no way obstructive to it.

Nextly,§. 15. Sect. 26. Mr Goodwin entreth upon his defensative to the charge against his Doctrine, whose Foundation is laid in the unworthinesse of its Authors in this Nation before it fell upon his hand. These he confesseth to be the worst of our late Bishops, with such as Romanized, & …yrannized among them, with their Clergie creatures & favorites, Persons many of thē of superstition, loosenes & much profanenes. Of the Apologie shaped for the clearing of the Doctrine he maintaineth from aparticipation with them in their unworthinesse, there are three parts. In the 1. whereof, he denieth, that this Doctrine did any way induce them to the loosenesse that was found upon them: In the other two, giveth as many Reasons of their receiving of it, and cleaving to it.

As for the first part, I shall willingly assent to him that the Holinesse or unholinesse of Professors: is not to be charged on the Religion they professe (I meane appearing Holinesse in the profession of it,) unlesse there be an evidence of a connexion betwixt their principles & practises; which in this case, to us & our apprehension of them who charge this Doctrine with the miscarriages of those men, there is; At least we may insist on this, that there is a suitablenesse in the whole Systeme of the Doctrine, whereof the Apostacy of the Saints is an eminent parcell, to that frame of Spirit which is in men of loose and superstitious wayes, enemies of the Grace of God and power of Godlinesse. Neither can there any other reason be tollerably assigned or alledged, for the embracement of that Doctrine, by those Persons formerly mentioned, but only their ignorance of, & envy to the great Misteryes of the Gospell, the Covenant of Grace with union, communion and close walking with God. A designe was upon them written with the beames of the Sunne, to cry up a barren, outside, light and loose profession, with a vaine, superstitious, selfe-invented Worship of God, instead of the Power of a Gospell-conversation and Ordinances of Christ according to his appointment; Seeking after a Righeousnesse as it were by the workes of the Law, and being ignorant of the Righteousnesse of Christ, they found the whole Doctrine whose defence M. G. hath lately undertaken, suited to their principles and aimes; and therefore with greedinesse drunke it downe like water, untill they were swelled with the Dropsy of Pride and selfe conceit, beyond what they could beare, whatever be now pretended, it was little disputed then, and in those dayes which Mr Goodwin pointeth unto, but that loosenesse of Life, inclination to Popery, enmity to the power of Godlinesse, were at the bottome of the entertainement of the Arminian Principles, by that generation of men.

But Mr G. proceedeth to alleviate this charge, §. 16.& informes us thus, That if the soundnes & rottennes of Opinions, should be esteemed by the goodnes or badnes of the Lives of any parcell or number of Persons professing the same, as well the Opinion of Atheisme which denyeth the being of any God, as the opinion of Polytheisme which affirmeth a plurality of Gods, must be esteemed better and more sound, than that which maintaineth the being of one God and of one only; for certaine it is that there have been many Heathens Professours some of the one, & some of the other of those Opinions, who have quitted themselves upon fairer tearmes of honour and approbation in their lives than many Christians professing of the last opinion have done.

I am not willing to wring this Nose too farre least bloud should follow; The lives of many Atheists and Pagans are preferred before the lives of many professing Christianity. By Professors of Christianity, Mr Goodwin intendeth those who are so indeed, and seasoned with the Power of the Principles of that Religion, or such only as making an outward profession of it are indeed acted with Principles quite of another nature, which notwithstanding all their Profession rendreth them in the truth of the thing it selfe, enemies of the crosse of Christ, their God being their belly, their glory being in their shame, and their end being destruction, Philip. 3. 18, 19. If the former be intended, as the Assertion is most false, the Gospell only effectually teaching men to deny all ungodlinesse, and to live soberly, righteously, and Godly in this present world, so it tendeth directly to the highest derogation from the honour of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of his glorious Gospell. He that would be throughly acquainted with the notorious untruth of this insinuation, let him a little consult Tertullian, Arnobius, Lactantius, Austin, & others, handling the Lives & Conversations of the best of the Polytheists and Heathens, before & in their dayes, if he be not contented to take a shorter course, and rest in the Authority of the Apostle, or rather of the Holy Ghost describing them and their conversations to the Life, as they lay under the just hardening Judgements of God Rom. 1. 18. to the end. If the latter sort of men called Christians be intended, the comparison instituted between them and Atheists, is to no purpose; they themselves being disclaimed and disowned by Christ & his Gospell, and reckoned among them with whom they are compared; So that upon the matter this is but the comparing one sort of Atheists, with an other, and giving in a Judgement, that of all, those are worst, whose practises are so, and yet pacifie their owne Consciences, and deceive the world, with a pretence & flowrish of a glorious profession.

I shall not now enter upon any long enquiry what influence the ungodly and profane lives of any ought to have upon the Judgements of men, in discovering and discerning of the Doctrines that they bring, especially if such as consent in any Doctrine, do also concurre in a dissolutenesse of conversation. That it will be of no small consideration, the experience of all Ages hath evinced. The Athenians refused a virtuous Law, because the Person was vicious who proposed it; and it is generally esteemed that there is a correspondency betwixt the principles & practices of those men, who earnestly profes the promotion of those principles, so that they are mutuall producers or advantagers one of another. This is all at present that was aimed at in the charge upon Mr Goodwin's Doctrine, which he undertakes to wave. It was generally embraced at its first broaching in our world, by men only of a loose & scandalous Conversation, supersticious in their wayes of worship, and enimies of the power of Godlinesse: which being confessed, for the Argument from thence, valeat quantum valere potest.

But M. Goodwin giveth us two Reasons, §. 18.why this Doctrine of his was so gladly received, and zealously asserted by that Generation of men. The first which he telleth you is plaine and easy to be given in, is this. Being professed enemies to the most Religious and Zealous Preachers and Ministers of the I and, with their adherents, whom they termed Puritans, whom they both hated and feared, as a generation of men, by whom rather than any other they apprehended themselves in danger of being dethroned, Nec eos fefellit Opinio. VponUpon this ground they judged it a very materiall point of their interest to oppose and keepe vnderunder this faction, as they termed them; In order thereunto they studied and cast about how to weaken their intrest, and repute, with the generality of the people, or at least with all those that were intelligent and in that respect considerable; to this end wisely considering that nothing was like to prejudice them more in their esteeme with most men, than to detect them of errour and unsoundnesse in their Doctrine, and perceiving withall (as with halfe an eye they might, being so fully disengaged as they were from all high thoughts of those that held them) that they were not in any Doctrine besides, which they were generally knowne to hold and teach, more obnoxious to such a detection, than in those which they held & taught in opposition to the Remonstrants, hereupon they politickly fell to professe and teach Remonstrantisme, that so they might have the more frequent occasion and opportunity to lay open the Puritan Doctrine, before the people, and to shew the inconsistency of it with the Scriptures, as also with many of the most manifest principles as well of Reason as Religion besides.

Ans. That this is a most vaine and groundlesse conjecture,§. 19. I presume any one that will but cast back his thoughts upon the posture of Affaires during the reigne of that Generation of men, and a little consider the wayes and meanes whereby they were through the righteous Hand of God, reduced to that condition and state wherein they now are, will quickly determine. The truth is, they were so far from advantaging themselves against their Adversaryes, and prevailing upon them, in the esteeme of the most rationall and knowing men in the Nation, by their entertaining the Arminian Doctrine, that utterly on the other side they dishonoured their cause of Ceremonys, discipline, & conformity, which with succes they had so long carryed on with the Generality of the Nation, & exposed themselves to the power of the people of the Land in Parliament, frō whence as to all other differences they were sheltered by an appearance of Legall Constitutions; so that after some forward Person of that faction, (the most contemptible indeed as to any reall worth, one or two individualls only excepted, of the whole tribe) had upon the grounds forementioned, taken up & made profession of the Opinions and Doctrine we are speaking of, they fell daily before their Adversaries, as to the esteeme of all, or at least the greatest part of those who cordially & throughly adhered to them as to the discipline, and Worship then established. Certainely the Prelaticall party themselves, will not say, they prevailed on that hand, as to any ends and purposes for the establishment of their interest, or making good their ground against their opposers. Nay the most sober and Learned of that sort of men, do to this day ascribe in no small measure the downefall of the whole fabricke whereof they were parts and members to the precipitating rashnesse, and folly of some few, in advancing and pressing the Arminian errours that they themselves were given up unto. As for the zealous and Godly Ministers of the Nation, usually termed Puritans, (who are here acknowledged by Mr Goodwin to have all generally opposed the Doctrine he striveth to build up,) though they had in many Parliaments wherein the most intelligent and rationall men of the Nation are usually convened, made by their friends sundry attempts for their reliefe against the Persecutions of the other as is evidenced by their Peritians, and Addresses still on Record, yet were never able to attaine the least redresse of their grievances, nor to get one step of ground against their Adversaries, untill the Advantage of their Arminianisme was administred unto them, on which by severall degrees they prevailed themselves in the issue to the utter breaking of the Yoke of their Taske-masters. It is true, He who takes the crafty in their owne imaginations, and mixeth the councell of the Wise with madnesse and folly, causing them to erre in their wayes as a drunken man in his vomit, doth oftentimes turne the devices of men upon their owne heads, and make those things subservient to their ruine, which they fixed upon as the most expedient mediums for their establishment and continuance, such perhaps was the case with them in their Canonicall Oath attempted to be imposed, in one of their last Convocations. But that the taking up, and asserting of the Arminian Doctrine was a designe of that party of men, to get upon the Judgements & Affections of the people, and to expose the Puritanicall Preachers to their contempt and reproach, is an imaginatiō that cannot likely fall upon any one, who had his eyes open in the dayes wherein those things were publikely acted on the stage of this Nation. For that insinuation in the close of Mr Goodwin's Discourse, concerning the Advantages given that sort of men, by the inconsistency of the Doctrine of the Puritans (which they opposed) with the Principles of Religion and Reason, I shall only say that it being once more through the Providence of God, called forth to a publicke debate, it neither standeth, nor falleth to the Judgement of any single man, muchlesse of one who is professedly ingaged in an opposition thereunto.

Another Reason of the same evidence with the former, §. 20.is tendred in these words, It is generally known that the Cathedrall generation of men throughout Christendome, were generally great admirers of the old Learning (as some call it) I meane the Writing, and Tenents of the Fathers, and of Austine more especially, and that they frequently made Shield and Buckler of their Authority to defend themselves, against the Pens and Opinions of later Writers, whom their manner was according to the exigency of their interest (at least as they conceived) to slight and vilify in comparison of the other. Now the judgments of the Fathers more generally, and of Austine more particularly, stood for the possibility of the Saints defection, both totall and finall, wherein it seemeth the greater part of our Moderne Reformed Divines have departed from them.

That this pretence is no whit better than that that went before, will be evidenced by the light of this one consideration. viz. That those among the Bishops and their adherents, who were indeed most zealous of, and best versed in the Writings of the Fathers, were generally of the same judgement about the Grace of Christ, and the Will of Man, &c. with the residue of the reformed Churches, and the Puritan Preachers of our own Nation. They were a company of Sciolists in comparison, and men of Nothing, who Arminianized: Men, as the Bishop of Lincolne once told them, whose Learning lay in a few unlearned Liturgies: It is true; they had gotten to such a Head, and to such a Height, not long before their fall, that they were ready to accuse, and charge their Associates as to Discipline, Worship, and Ceremony, of Puritanisme, who failed not to retort Arminianisme and Popery back againe to them. We know who said of the other, that they were Tantum non in Episcopatu Furitani; and who returned to him and his Associates, Tantum non in Vxoratu Pontificii. The truth is, those among them, as there were many among them, both Bishops, and men, (as they speak and think) of Inferior Orders, who were solidly Learned, especially in the writings of the Ancients (of whom many are yet alive, and some are fallen a sleepe) were universally, almost to a man of the same judgement with Calvin, in the heads of our Religion under consideration. Jewell, Abbot, Morton, Vsher, Hall, Davenant, and Prideaux, (great names among the World of Learned men) with a considerable retinue of men of repute for Literature and Devotion, (with whom on no account whatever the Arminianizing party of the Prelates and their followers, are to be named the same day) have sufficiently testified their thoughts in this matter to all the World. From what Ambiguity of expression it is, that any sentence is stolne from Austine, and others of the Ancients, seeming to countenance the Doctrine of the Saints Apostacy, hath been elsewhere discovered, and may farther be manifested as occasion shall be administred; And without pretence, to any great skill in the old Learning, this I dare assert, (whereof I have given some account in the Preface to the Reader) that not one of the Ancients (much lesse Austin) did ever maintaine such an Apostacy of Saints, and such a Perseverance as that which M. Goodwin contendeth for.

This being that which M. Goodwin hath to offer for the clearing of the Doctrine he maintaineth,§. 21. from the two first parts of the charge exhibited against it, he applieth himselfe in the last place, to contend with a common Observation made by Christians, weighing and pondering the principles and wayes of men in the daies wherein we live; Namely, the degeneracy of the most of men, who at any time embrace it from their former Profession, and their turning aside to the paths of loosenesse and folly. An observation which if true, (though M. Goodwin is pleased to assert that any considering man (like himselfe) will laugh it to scorne,) will not easily be digested in the thoughts of them, that are willing to weigh aright the usuall presence of God with his Truths, especially at the first embracement and entertainement of them. Neither will this observation be diverted from pursuing the Doctrine against which it is lifted up, by comparing it with that of the Vnhappinesse of Marriages made between Cousen-Germans, there being nothing in that Relation, that should be a disposing cause, to any such issue as is pretended; much lesse with that farther observation, That some Apostatise from the Protestant Religion, yea from Christianity it selfe; there being not the least Parity, or indeed Analogy in the instances. If it might be affirmed of men, that after their embracing of Christianity, or the Protestant Religion, they generally decline, and grow worse, (as to their Morall Conversation,) then they were before, I doe not know at present what Apology could be readily fixed on, that might free the one, and the other, from grievous Scandall. To fall from a Profession of any Religion, or any head or part of a Religion, upon the account of the corruption that is in them, that so fall from it, is rather an honour, then a reproach to the Religion so deserted. But in, and upon the embracement of any Religion, or any Doctrine in Religion, for men to decline from that, which is the proper end of all true Religion (which is the observation that riseth up against the Doctrine M. Goodwin asserteth in reference to very many that embrace it) doubtlesse is not the Crowne and Glory of that which they professe. Neither is this observation built on so slight experience, as to be muzled with Proverbs of Swallowes and Woodcocks. The streets of our Cities, and paths of our Villages being full of those fowles, or rather fowle spirits, that give strength unto it.

This is the whole of what M. Goodwin thought good to tender for the protection of his Doctrine,§. 22. from the charge laid downe at the entrance of this digression; on the consideration whereof, I doubt not but it is evident how unable he is to shield it from the wound intended unto it thereby. And shall we now? Can we entertaine any other thoughts of it, but that, (having constantly hitherto been denied and opposed by the most zealous, painefull, Godly, successefull Preachers of the Gospell, that these latter Ages, have been through the goodnesse of God blessed withall, entertained chiefely by Men of loose, dissolute principles and practises, enemies to the power of Godlinesse, and the profession thereof, and strongly suspected to corrupt the minds and conversations of Men that doe embrace it) it is the only serviceable reliefe and assistance for the making of the Ministry of the Gospell usefull and fruitfull, ingenerating holinesse and obedience in the Lives and wayes of Men.