The Immortality of Mans Soul, Treatise
THE IMMORTALITY OF Mans Soule, PROVED BOTH BY SCRIPTVRE and REASON.
Contrary to the Fancie of R. O. In his Book Intituled Mans Mortality; wherein hee (vainely) affirmeth hee hath proved Theologically, and Philoſophically, that whole man is a compound wholy mortall, and that the preſent going of the ſoule into Heaven or Hell is a meer fiction, and that at the Reſurrection is the beginning of our Immortality, and then actuall Damnation or Salvation, and not before.
LONDON, Printed by Peter Cole at the ſigne of the Printing-preſſe in Cornehill, neer the Royall-Exchange. 1645.
THE IMMORTALITY OF MANS SOVLE. Proved both by Scripture and Reaſon.
CHAP. 1. That Man conſiſteth of two parts, Soule and Body.
COncerning GOD, we are acknowledge him to be a Spirit, as touching the world, we are to conceive of it as a body, in man we have an abridgment of both, of God in reſpect of the Soule, of the world in compoſition of the Body, as though the Creator on purpoſe to ſet forth a mirror of all his workes, intended to bring into one little compaſſe, both the infinitneſſe of his owne nature; and alſo the hugeneſſe of the whole world together, after his own Image in reſpect of his ſoule, after his other creatures in reſpect of life, ſence and moving, mortall ſo farre as he holdeth forth the Image of the creature, immortall ſo farre as hee holdeth forth the Image of GOD his Creator.
This Arg. 1 may be proved by pregnant arguments.
1 No creature can worke out of his owne proper ſpheare, how can man if totally mortal conceive of immortality, can mortality comprehend immortality? as probably as a man may throw a ſtone and knock downe the ſunne which is farre above his ſpheare. The beaſts mind altogether the earth they eate when they are hungry drinke when they are dry and go when they are beaten and regard their Creator no more then they doe the clock when it ſtrikes. The fiſh live in the water as the beaſts upon the earth becauſe they are aqueall the other terrene, neither rationall and therefore cannot worke above their ſphear, but man conceives not only the things of this world, but alſo of a better, immortality, glory eternity, therfore muſt needs have ſomething in him that is immortal. Who is hee that deſireth not to be immortal? how can he deſire it unleſſe he know what it is? how can he know what it is unleſſe he have ſomthing in him immortal? none of us covereth to be beginningleſſe, bcauſe none of us are ſo, neither can be ſo and becauſe we are not ſo, we can not comprehend what it is, for who can conceive of eternity without beginning, but he will end his Wits before his deſires? but on the contrary there is not ſo baſe a mind upon earth which coveteth not to live for ever, in ſo much that whereas we looke not for it by natur we ſeeke to obtayne it by ſkill and pollicy, ſome by bookes, ſome by images, and ſome by other devices, and even the ignoranteſt ſort of people can well imagine in themſelves what immortality is, and are able both to conceive it and beleeve it; but the wiſeſt and learnedeſt man alive, ſhould he live as long as Mathuſalah, and ſtudie what it is to be with out beginning all his life time, he muſt at laſt yeild to death without fulfilling or filling full his deſires; whence comes this? but that our ſoules being created, cannot conceive an everlaſtingneſſe without beginning yet being created immortal can well conceive an everlaſtingneſſe or immortality without end.
Let us yet wade a little deeper, who can diſpute, or once ſo much as doubt whether the ſoule be Immortal or no, but he that is capable of Immortality? or who can underſtand a difference betweene mortal and immortal but he that is immortal?Though they ſhall riſe again as well as man, ſaith R O. treat of Mortality. pag. 50. can a * horſe, an ox, a dogge? no, why? becauſe thy are mortall, and can reach no higher than mortality Immortality is out of their Sphear, out of their Element, as the Proverbe is, Man is able to conceive what is reaſon, and what is not; and by that wee terme him rationall, Man knows a difference betwixt Mortality, and Immortality; and therefore muſt needs be immortall: for to what end ſhould God teach Immortality to a mortall wight.
If a man ſhould hold an argument, that man is not rationall, and diſpute it, hee needs other confutation then his owne arguments: ſo hee that diſputes that the ſoule is mortall, his owne reaſoning of it, ſhall to a wiſe man prove it immortall.
Secondly, it is plainly proved, Arg. 2 that man conſiſts of two parts, Soule and Body; becauſe they performe ſeverall and different works at one and the ſame time. The ſoule or mind of man will be at Conſtantinople, then at Rome, at Paris, at Lyons, in America, in Affrick, and diſpatch all theſe journies in a trice, looke whereſoever thou directeſt it, there it is, and before thou calleſt it back, it is at home, while the body al this time is at home at worke, or perhaps in bed; therefore the ſoule and body are two different parts: nay, the ſoule may, and often doth mind and deſire good, when the body is acting ſinne, Rom. 7.23.24, 25 I find a law in my members warring againſt the law of my mind (or ſoule) and bringing mee into captivity, to the law of my members, but was it his body that warred againſt his mind, and brought it into captivity? reade the next verſe, you ſhall ſee, O wretched man that I am who ſhall deliver me from the body of this death? or this body of death, as the margin more truly hath it, this mortall body. So then (ſaith he) with my mind I will ſerve the Lord, but with my fleſh the law of ſin: thus it plainely appears, the ſoule and body are two different parts.
Thirdly, Arg. 3 that the ſoule is not the body, nor any part of it, but ſoule and body two very different things, appears of it ſelfe without further proofe, for if the ſoule were the body, or any part of the body, it would, nay muſt needs grow with the body, and decline with the body, it would be maimed with the body, and ſick with the body, for elſe how can it dye with the body, but daily experience proves the contrary, for were ſoule the ſame with, or part of the body, the greater the body were, the greater would the ſoule be: but the contrary appears, thoſe that are ſtrongeſt in mind, are commonly weakeſt in body, and the ſoule is ſeene to be full of livelineſſe in a languiſhing body, and to grow the more in force by the decay of the body, by growing of the ſoule I meane, (miſtake me not) not that it increaſeth or diminiſheth, it is capable of neither, but its profiting in power and vertue; againe, if the ſoule were the body or any part of it, it would languiſh with the body: hee that is wounded in his body, would be wounded in his underſtanding, as well as in his members: he that is ſicke of any diſeaſe, ſhould alſo be ſicke in his reaſon: he that limpeth or halteth, ſhould halt in his reaſon alſo; the blind mans ſoule ſhould be blind, and the lame mans lame; but the contrary appeares, the maimed, the ſicke, the cripples, the blind, have their underſtanding cleere ſighted, their reaſon ſound, their diſcourſe vigorous, and their ſoule ſafe and ſound; on the other ſide, many a man dieth, whoſe body is ſound, and differeth not a whit in any part, from what it was when he was living, anatomize him, the quickeſt eyed Chyrurgian ſhal ſee, nor perceive no cauſe of his death, outward nor inward, nor failing of any particular, to cauſe it, and yet life, motion, ſence, and underſtanding, are out of it, we may ſay then (if wee are not wilfully blind, for none ſo blind as he that will not ſee) that there was ſomething in the body, that was not of the body, that was a farre other thing then the body.
Object. But ſome ſay, that the force and ſtrength of the ſoule, groweth with the body, & Children have none, and Drunkards have ſoules by jumps, and many other crotchets, as vaine as ridiculous.
I anſwer, it cannot be ſaid, that a Childs ſoule groweth, or is ſtrengthned by time, but rather his nerves, or ſinewes are hardned and ſtrengthned, which the ſoule uſeth as ſtrings and inſtruments to move withall,R O. treat of Mortality, p. 19. where hee pleaſeth himſelfe with the merry conceits of his own fancy, which hee doth in many other places of that treat. or or act by; and therefore when age weakneth them, a man uſeth a ſtaffe to helpe them with, though he have as good a will to run, as he had when he was young, you may often heare a decrepid old man boaſt and talke of the valorous acts of his youth, he deſires to be doing the ſame then, for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth ſpeaketh: The ſoule then which moveth all at one beck, hath the ſelfe ſame power in infancy, that it hath in age, and the ſame in old age, that it hath in the flower of youth, the fault is only in the inſtrument, which is unable to execute the operation therof, the skilfulneſſe of a Muſician is not diminiſhed by the ſlackneſſe, hardneſſe, or moyſtneſſe of his Luteſtrings, nor increaſed by the goodneſſe, curious ſetting or ſtraining of them, only in the one he cannot ſhew his cunning, in the other he may ſhew it more or leſſe.
Likewiſe, the ſpeech of Children commeth with their teeth, howbeit the ſpeech doth manifeſtly utter it ſelfe firſt, in that they prattle many things, which they cannot pronounce, and in old men it goeth again with their teeth, and yet their eloquence is not abated thereby, as in Demoſthenes, though he ſurmounted all the Orators of his time, yet there was ſome Letters he could not pronounce, give unto old age, or infancie the ſame ſinewes and teeth, and as luſty and able limbs, and members as youth hath, and the actions which the ſoule doth with the body, and by the body, (I mean ſo farre forth as concerne the abilities of ſenſe and livelineſſe) ſhall be performed, as well in one age, as in another: Be but as impartiall in judging of the force and power of thy owne ſoule, as of the skilfulneſſe of a Lute-player, (I ſay not by the nimbleneſſe of his fingers, which may perchance be knotted with the Gout, but by the ſweetneſſe of his Harmony, which plainly ſheweth, that hee hath cunning in his head, though hee can ſhew it no more with his hands) ſo as thou wouldſt conſider how thou haſt in thy ſelfe a deſire to goe, though thy feet are not able to beare thee, a diſcretion to judge of things that are ſpoken, though thine eares cannot convey it to thee, a ſound eloquence though for want of teeth (or any other impediment) thou art not able to expreſſe it; and which is above all, a ſubſtantiall, quick and heavenly reaſon, even when thy body is moſt debile, infirme, weake, crazie, earthly, ſick and drooping: Thou wouldſt ſoone conclude, that the force and power, of quickning, moving, and perceiving, is whole and ſound in thy ſoule, and that the default is only, and altogether in thy body: in ſo much, that if thy ſoule had a new body, and new inſtruments given to her, it would be as luſty, and as cheerfull as ever it was, and the more it perceiveth the body to decay, the more it retireth, or laboureth to retire to it ſelfe, the more active the thoughts are of another being, of a better being, of an eternall being, which is a plaine proofe that it is not the body, nor any part of the body, but the very life, and inworker of the body. Arg. 4
Fourthly, unleſſe man have in him a ſoul (or ſomething elſe) that is immortall, there can be no reſurrection: This I ſhall prove by ſolid reaſon, though R. O. hale in the contrary, to make up the number of his abſurdities: for if the ſoule dye with the body, or if there be no ſoule at all, and man all body, and ſo reduced to the prima materia, how can there be a reſurrection? there may be a new Creation, if you pleaſe; the firſt was a Creation, the matter is the very ſame, that it was before the Creation: Ergo, the worke the very ſame, viz. a new Creation, ſee it by the example of the Creation of the world, a fit paralel for R. O. 2 Pet. 3.10. The day of the Lord will come as a Theife in the night, in which the Heavens ſhal paſſe away with a great noyſe, and the Elements ſhall melt with fervent heat, the earth alſo, and the works that are therein ſhall be burnt up, and verſ. 13. nevertheleſſe, we according to his promiſe looke for a new heaven and a new earth, wherein dwelleth Righteouſneſſe. What? will God raiſe up the Heaven and Earth, Sun, Moone, and Stars againe out of the Chaos? will he make a Reſurrection of the world? no, no, man, they are brought, to the prima materia, this is worke for a Creation, not a Reſurrection, Eſay 65.17. Behold, I create new Heavens, and a new Earth, &c.
See it by the Apoſtle Pauls owne Compariſon, 1 Cor. 15.36, 37. Thou foole that which thou ſoweſt is not quickned, except it dye, and that which thou ſoweſt, thou ſoweſt not that body which ſhal be, but bare grain, &c. If this graine have not in it a vitall ſpirit, a growing a ſpirit, a reſuſcitative ſpirit, a ſpirit of life, it cannot grow, it is true, the terrene part of it dies, but the vitall part lives, and give a Reſurrection (if I may ſo call it) to another Plant of the ſame kind: Take an Oake Tree that is dead and rotten, ſet in the ground, it will not grow while the world ſtands. Take an A corne, ſet that in the ground, it will grow: why will that, and not the other? becauſe there is ſpirit in that which dies not, but cauſeth life to the terrene part of it, which dies, and conſumes; vvhereas the other hath none. So if man have no immortall ſpirit in him, here is no place for a Reſurrection, it muſt be an abſolute Creation (if any thing) that gives him life againe, but the whole current of Scripture, hold forth a Reſurrection and therfore man hath ſomething in him immortall.
In the fift place I might prove that man hath an immortall ſpirit, uncapable of death, by the teſtimony of the ancient Heathen, far ancienter (many of them) then Plato, which alſo is a rationall proofe of a point; for what the God of nature hath taught to all men by nature, is, and muſt needs be a truth.
But the God of nature hath taught all men by nature, that there is a God, that they have an immortall ſpirit, therefore it is a truth.
I doe not ſay he hath taught it ſome one man, or ſome one nation, but the whole world, the Vniverſality of it ſhewes it to be of God: The Divel teacheth not all nations, one and the ſame particular ſinne, but different according to the conſtitution of the climate they live in, elſe he would looſe his labour, and that he knows well enough, he hath taught it by nature: for thoſe nations that never heard what grace was, hold and confeſſe, and leave to poſterity this truth: all men univerſally, and particularly have learned it in one Schoole from the mouth of one Teacher, and he perfect, therefore a truth.
The holy Scripture which teacheth us our ſalvation, uſeth no Schoole-arguments to make us beleeve there is a God, and why ſo? becauſe we find him preſent in his works, neither to prove this point, which ſhines ſo cleere in nature.
Both Greeke and Latine Authors have plentifully left it to poſterity.
Phocylides.foreign.
The ſoule is immortall, and liveth perpetually; and never waxeth old. And againe,
foreign.
foreign.
The remainder of dead men, remaines void of death.
If you aske him the cauſe of this, hee will anſwer you in another verſe, thus (for he was a rationall man)
foreign.
Sybilla.The ſoule is Gods Inſtrument, and Image in mortall men. Hitherto comes that of the Sybill.
foreign.
Man by all reaſon is indued with the Image of God; of the ſame opinion alſo were Orpheus, Theognis.
Piadar. in the ſecond ſong of his Olympiads. Homer in the funerals of his Iliads Herm. in his Paenander. … pag. 10.Homer, Heſiod, Pindarus, and all the Poets of old time, which may anſwer for themſelves, and their Countries, and for the reſidue of their ages.
Hermes ſaith, the ſoul is the garment of the mind, and the garment of the ſoul, is a certaine ſpirit wherby it is united to the body, and this mind is that which wee call properly the man, that is, a heavenly wight, not to be compared to the beaſts, but rather to the gods of heaven, if it be not yet more then they, the heavenly cannot come downe to the earth without leaving the heaven, but man meaſureth the heaven without removng from the earth: to be ſhort, his concluſion is that man is double, mortall as touching his body, immortall as touching his ſoul, which ſoul is the very man, and created of God (ſaith he) as the light is bred immediatly of the ſunne.
And Chalcidins ſaith, that at his death he ſpake theſe words, I goe home againe into mine own country where my better Forefathers and kindred be.
Zoroaſtres, who is of more antiquity then Hermes, this article is reported to be one of his, that mens ſouls are immortall, and that one day, there ſhall be a generall riſing againe of their bodies, and the anſwer of the wiſe men of Chaldea (Who were the heires of his doctrine) doe anſwer ſufficiently for him.
There is one that exhorteth men to returne with ſpeed to their heavenly father: Who hath ſent them a ſoul indued with much underſtanding.
Another exhorteth them to ſeeke Paradice, as the peculiar dwelling place of the ſoule.
A third ſaith, that the ſoule hath God as it were ſhut up in it, and that it hath not any mortality therin, for (ſaith he) the ſoule is as it were drunken with God, and ſheweth forth his wonders in the harmony of this mortall body.
A fourth ſaith it is a cleare fire proceeding from the power of the heavenly father, an incorruptible ſubſtance, and the maintainer of life, containing almoſt all the whole world with the full plenty therof in his boſome.
But one of them proſeedeth yet further, affirming that he that ſetteth his mind upon Godlineſs, ſhall ſave even his body, though it be never ſo fraile: and by thoſe words hee acknowledgeth the very glorifying of the body.
All theſe are reported by Pſellus, and he confeſſeth that Plato and Pythagoras learned the doctrine of the ſouls Immortality of the Caldeans, in ſo much that ſome thinke the Caldeans are thoſe that Plato ſpeakes of,Lil. Legum 11. ep. 2. when hee ſaith, that the ancient and holy Oracles are to be beleeued, which affirme mens ſouls to be immortall, and that in another life, they muſt come before a Iudg that wil require an account of all their doings, the reſult wherof commeth to this, that the ſoule of man proceedeth immediatly from God, that is to ſay; that the father of the body is one, and the father of the ſoule is another; that the ſoule is not a bodily ſubſtance, but a ſpirit and a light, that at the departure therof from hence, it is to goe to a Paradice, & therfore ought to make haſte unto death and that it is ſo far from mortality, that it maketh even the body Immortall: what can wee ſay more at this day, even in the time of light wherin we live of the ſame opoinion was Hordelitus, as is reported by Philolaus.
Clement. of Alexandria.Of Epicharmus we have this ſaying, if thou beeſt a good man in thy heart, death can doe thee noe harme, for thy ſoul ſhall live happily in heaven:
It were endleſſe to recite al the words of the ancient about this ſubject, conifiming this trueth, for of this opinion were Thales, Anaxagoras, Diogenes, and Zeno, Lucretius, Socrates, Xenophon, read Plato his Timaeus, his commonwealth, his Phadon, his Politicks, his laws, Ariſtotle his books of living things, of the ſoul his morralls, Michael of Epheſus upon his morrals, Cicero his Tuſculaves, his Comforts, his nature of the gods; his firſt booke of lawes, his Scipios dreame, Seneca to Gallio, to Lucillius, concerning the Lady Martiaes ſon, the ſhortnes of his life, his book of comforts, Prophririus 4. booke of abſtinence, Plutarke, theſe ancient.
For moderne Philoſophers, Epictetus, Simplicius, Plotinus, lib. 1. Aenead. 4. concerning the being of the ſoule lib. 2. Chapter 1. lib. 3. Chapter 18. 14. 20. 21. 23. lib. 4. Chapter 11. and the 7. Book throughout, his book of the ſenſes & memory, his Bk. of doubts concerning the ſoule, theſe and thouſands more confirme the point though they differ in circumſtance, that man conſiſts of two parts, viz. a body and a reaſonable and immortall ſoule, and where they had this notion I ſhewed before
CHAP. 2. Of the Abilities; Or Faculties of the Soule,
IN the inward man, wee have a ſumme of whatſoever life, ſence, moving, is in all creatures and moreover a ſhadow of the godhead it ſelfe, and that is the thing we have to examine in this Chapter.
In plants we perceive that beſides the bodies which we ſee, there is alſo an inward vertue which we ſee not, wherby they live, grow, bud, and beare fruit, which we call the quickening vertue and it maketh them to differ from ſtones, and mettalls, which have it not.
In ſenſitive things, we find the very ſame vertue, whch worketh while they ſleepe, and are after a ſort as plants, and there withall we find another ſort of vertue or power, which ſeeth, heareth, ſmelleth, taſteth and feelleth, which alſo in many of them doeth hord up the things brought in by the ſences, which manner of power the plants are voyd of; this we call the ſenſitive vertue, becauſe the effects there of are diſcerned and executed by the ſences.
In man we have both the quickening and ſenſitive the former uttering it ſelfe in the nouriſhing and increaſing of him and the latter in the ſubtilty of ſence, and imagination, through which hee hath both quickning and ſenſitive life together: but moreover he hath a mind, which reapeth profit by the things brought in by the ſenſes, which by his ſeeing conceives the things it ſeeth not; which of that which is not, gathereth that which is, which elevateth the thoughts from the earth and earthly things, yea, and after a ſort from himſelfe too, this we call the reſonable ſoule, and it is the thing that maketh man to be man, and not a plant or a bruit beaſt as the other two doe.
But by the way, wheras I ſay, that the inward man hath a quickening power as a plant hath, a ſenſitve qower as a beaſt hath, and a powe of underſtanding wherby he is man, my meaning is not that he hath three ſoules but only one ſoule, that like as in a bruit beaſt the ſenſitive ſoule comprehends the quickening ſoul; ſo in man the reaſonable ſoule comprehends both ſenſitive, and quickening, and excecuteth the offices of them all three, all at one and the ſame time, it both heareth, ſeeth, ſmelleth, reaſoneth, at one & the ſame time: the mind of a man wil intend his own houſhould affairs, the affairs of the common-wealth, & heavenly things all at once.
Or to ſpeake more fitly, theſe three degrees are three degrees of life, whereof the ſecond exceedeth and containeth the firſt, the third exceedeth and containeth both the other two, the one, without which the body cannot live, is the vegetable, and is ſo tied to the body that it ſheweth not it ſelfe in any wiſe out of it, the ſecond which cannot live without the body is the life of a beaſt, a ſenſitive life, which doeth well manifeſt its power abroad, but yet not otherwiſe, but by the members and inſtruments of the body, wherto it is tyed, the third which can of it ſelfe live without the body; but not the boby without it, is the rationall ſoule of man, which giveth life inwardly to all his parts, and deliniaments, ſheweth forth his life abroad in perceiving all things, ſubject to ſence, and retaineth ſtill his force (as we ſhewed before) yea and increaſeth it, even when the ſtrength of the body: yea & the very livelyneſſe therof doth faile, you ſhall ſee a man forgoe all his ſences one after another, as the inſtruments of them decay, & yet ſtill have life untovched and reaſon qvick, the reaſon is, the inſtruments of life fail, but life it ſelf which quickens them fails not, wherby its aparent that in this ſoul of man (which notwithſtanding is but one) there are diverſities of power, abilityes and faculties, the quickening power, doth nouriſh, increaſe, and maintain us, & reaſon nor ſence meddle not with it, neither have they power to impeach the working therof: the truth of this appeares, in that theſe things are beſt done when our mind is at reſt, and our ſences a ſleep, in ſo much that oftentimes we forgoe the ſence and moving of ſome parts, by ſome rhume, or ſome palſy, and yet ſome parts ceaſe not to be nouriſhed ſtill, alſo the ſenſitive life ſeeth and perceiveth a far off, yea oft times without ſetting the mind therupon, or without conſidering what the ſence conceiveth, ſome men which have but weake ſences, have very quick underſtandings, & on the contrary, againe ſome fall into a conſumption, which want not the parfect uſe of their ſences, ſometimes the reaſonable part is ſo bent and occupied, about the things that it liketh of, that by the increaſing of it ſelfe, it hurteth and diminiſheth, the part of it quickneth: Alſo it ſtandeth in argument againſt the ſences, & reproveth them of falſhood, & concludeth contrary to their information, & it may be the man that hath his digeſtion good, and his ſences ſound, not his wit and reaſon, ſound in like Caſe, now were the ſoule but only one faculty it could not be, ſo but now it is divided manifeſtly into wit, or underſtanding, and will, the one ſerving to device, the other to execute, for we underſtand many things which we will not, & we will divers things which we underſtand not, which conttary operations, cannot bee atributed to one power, nevertheleſſe the uniting of theſe powers is with that diſtinckneſſe, and the diſtinguiſhing of them with that union, that ordinarily they meet altogether in one and the ſame action, the one of them (in all liklyhood) as readily as the other, howbeit every one of them doth his owne proper worke ſeverally by himſelfe, and one before another in reſpect of their objects.
CHAP. 3. Of the Eſſence of the Soule.
IT is not enough to know wee have a ſoule, ſay ſome, whereby we live, feele, and underſtand, &c. and which being but one, hath in it ſelfe alone, ſo many powers, faculties, and abilities, but it will be demanded, what this ſoule is: and truly, if I ſhould ſay I cannot tell what it is, I ſhould not bely my ſelfe, I ſhould but confeſſe mine own ignorance, as many learned men have done before me, and I ſhould doe no wrong at all to the ſoule it ſelfe, ſith we cannot deny the effects of it; and truly, in my opinion, the leſſe we are able to define the nature, and being thereof, the more doth the Excellency thereof ſhine forth, and appeare, the dulneſſe of the underſtanding is ſuch by the fall of man in Adam, that it cannot conceive of the nature of ſpirits affirmatively, but by the effects, or negatively, and thoſe that went about to define it, ran into many errours and abſurdities; yet it follows not, that man hath no ſoule; were it not a worthy and learned Argument, for a man to reaſon thus: I know not what the ſoul is, therfore there is none, or the learned differ in the definition of it; therefore there is none: its juſt, as if a man ſhould ſay, I know not where the Indies are; therefore there are none; ſince it is ſo then, it needs no long ſcanning,1 Soule not a quality but a ſubſtance. whether it be a ſubſtance or a quality; for qualities have no being but in another thing then themſelves; the ſoule which cauſeth another thing to be, cannot be a quality; for as much as the ſoule maketh man to be man, who otherwiſe were but a carkeis, or carrion; therefore we muſt needs grant, that the ſoule is a forming ſubſtance, and ſubſtantiall forme; yea, and a moſt excellent ſubſtance, infinitly paſſing the outward man, which by the power and vertue thereof, cauſeth another thing to have being, and perfecteth the bodily ſubſtance, which ſeemeth inwardly to have ſo many perfections.
Secondly, as the ſoule is a ſubſtance, not a quality,2 Vnbodily. ſo it is a ſubſtance unbodily, incorporiall. 1. If we conſider the nature of a body, it hath certaine dementions and comprehendeth not any thing, that is not proportioned to the greatneſſe and capacitie of it, for as it ſelfe muſt have place in another thing 'ſo muſt other things occupy ſome certaine place in it; by reaſon whereof it commeth to paſſe, that things can have no place therin, if they be greater then it, without annoying one another, to be ſhort if the thing be leſſe then the body that containes it, the whole body ſhall not containe it, but ſome part of it only, and if it be greater, ſome part muſt needs be out, for there is no meaſuring of bodies but by quantity, but we ſee our ſoule comprehends heaven and earth, without annoying either other, and alſo time paſt, preſent and to come, without troubling one another: and alſo innumerable places, perſons and townes, without cumbering our underſtanding, great things are there in their full bigneſſe, and ſmall things in their utmoſt ſmalneſſe, both of them whole and ſound, in the ſoule whole and ſound, and not by peice-meale, or only in part of it: Moreover the fuller it is, the more it is able to receive; the more things are couched in it, the more it ſtil coveteth, and the greater the things be, the fitter is it to receive it, even when they be at the greateſt. It followeth therfore, that the ſoule (which after a ſort is infinit) cannot be a body, and ſo much the leſſe can it be ſo, for that, wheras it harboureth ſo many and ſo great things in it, it ſelfe is lodged in ſo ſmall a body.
Secondly, a body cannot be in divers places at once, nor cannot paſſe without removing, but the ſoule as a thouſand places may be in it, without occupying any places, ſo is the mind in a thouſand places without changing place, & that not by ſuccesſion of times, nor by turnes, but often times altogether at one inſtant, as we ſhewed in the firſt chapter, now there is not a body, that is or can be ubiquitary, or in diverſe places at once, it is againſt the nature of a body, all bodily motion requires time, yea & ſuch time, as within a little over or under is proportioned both to its place, and to the length of its way it hath to go, then it is certain that our ſoul is not a bodily ſubſtance, which thing appeareth ſo much the more plainely, that it being lodged within this body, which is ſo movable, it removeth not with the body.
3 Alſo it is a ſure ground, that two bodies cannot mutually enter either into other, or contain either other, but the greater muſt needs alway contain, and the other leſſer muſt needs be contained, but by our ſoules we enter not only into other bodies, but alſo either into other minds, ſo as we comprehend either other, by mutuall underſtāding, & imbrace either other, by mutual love, it follows then that this ſubſtāce, which is able to receive, abodiles thing can be no body, & ſo much the rather, becauſe the body that ſeemeth to hold it containeth it not
Fourth. That the ſoul is no bodily ſubſtance is manifeſt, in that it maketh al things that it lodgeth in it after a ſort ſpirituall, therfore it ſelf muſt needs be a ſpirituall ſubſtance, becauſe it bereaves the thing it contains, after a ſort of its body, & makes it ſpiritual, if ther were any bodilineſs in it, it were unable to enter into the knowledg of a body, a thouſand ſeverall ſhapes are ſeen in a glaſs, if the clear of the glaſs had any peculiar ſhape of its own, none of thoſe ſhapes could be ſeen but only its own, alſo all viſible things are imprinted in the eye, if the ſight of the eye had any peculiar colour of its own, either it would not ſee at all, or all things would ſeem like to that colour, which is in the eye; likewiſe the tongue is the diſcerner of al taſts, if it be not clear, but encumbred with humors, all things will be of the taſt of the humor that the tongue is incumbred with, if it be bitter, they alſo are bitter, if watriſh, they are watriſh, yea if it be bitter, it cānot judg of bitternes it ſelf, that a thing may receive al ſhapes al colours, & all taſts it is requiſite that it be cleare of all ſhape, of all colour, of all ſavour of its owne, and that a thing may in underſtanding, know and conceive all bodies, as our ſoule doeth, it is requiſite that it be altogether bodileſſe it ſelfe, for had it any bodilineſſe in it, it could not receive any body into it, without marring or altering it ſelfe or the other, for if you look neerly into the nature of a body, you ſhall find that no body receiveth into it the ſubſtantiall forme of a nother body without altering or looſing its owne, or the other, neither can paſſe from one form to another, without marring the firſt, as is plainely to be ſeene in wood, when it receiveth fire, in ſeeds, when they ſpring forth into buds, and ſo in other things, what is to be ſaid, then of mans ſoule which receiveth, & conceiveth the formes and ſhapes of all things, with out corrupting its own, and morover becommeth the perfecter by the more receiving, for the more it receiveth, the more it underſtandeth, and the more it underſtandeth, the more perfect it is.
Fiftly, if it be a bodily ſubſtance, from whence is it, or of what mixture is it; if of any, then of the Elements, if of the Elements, how can that give life, which hath none in it ſelfe; how can that give underſtanding, that hath no ſence; that divers things that have no being of themſelves, ſhould give being to another, or be made a thing that hath a being? that of divers out-ſides ſhould bee made one body, or of diverſe bodies, one ſoule; or of diverſe darkneſſes one light, of divers deaths one life; ſurely this one abſurdity is able to countervail and out-weigh all thoſe 69. in R. O. his treaties of mans Mortality, by this it plainly appears, that hee which made the mixture of theſe bodies, hath for the perfecting our body (beyond nature) breathed a ſoul into it, to be ſhort, the property of a body is to ſuffer, the property of a ſoule is to doe, & if the body be not put forth, by ſome other thing then it ſelfe, it is a very blocke, whereas the ſoul which is in our body, ceaſeth not to ſtirre up & down, though it have nothing to move it from without, therefore it is to be concluded fom theſe reaſons (and the like that might be alleaged) that the ſoule is a ſubſtance incorporeall, unbodily, notwithſtanding it be united to our bodies.
Thirdly, as our ſoule, is a ſubſtance unbodily,3 Immateriall. ſo is it unmateriall, likewiſe, & that appeareth, firſt becauſe matter receiveth not any forme or ſhape, but according to his owne quantity, and but only one forme at once, wheras our ſoule receiveth all formes without quantity, come there never ſo many at once, or never ſo greate.
Secondly, no matter receiveth contrary formes at once, but our ſoule comprehendeth and receiveth them together, as fire and water, heat & cold, white and blacke, and not only together, but alſo better by laying and matching of them together.
Laſtly, to be ſhort, it appeares, that the ſoule is not materiall, ſeeing the more we depart from matter, the more we underſtand, ſurely there is nothing more contrary to the ſubſtance of the ſoule then the nature of matter, then is this reaſonable ſoule of ours neither a bodily nor a materiall thing, nor depending upon matter in the beſt action thereof, then muſt needs be of it ſelfe, and not proceed from body, or matter, for what can a body bring forth but a body, & matter but matter, and materialls but materialls; and therfore the ſoule is an unmateriall ſubſtance, which hath being of it ſelfe.
4 Imomrtall and incorruptible. Plutarke, de ſera …uminis vindicta tractat.Fourthly, the ſoule as it is a ſubſtance, incorporeall, immateriall, ſo is it incorruptible, and immortall, Plutarke ſaith, it is in vaine to diſpute thereof: for ſaith he, the doctrine of Gods providence & that of the immortallity of the ſoule are ſo lincked together, that take away the one the other follows, (God grant that experience prove not Plutarkes words true, in ſome now living) for, ſaith he, to what purpoſe was the world created, if there were no body to behold it? or to what end, behold we the creatures in the world but to ſerve him? and why ſhould wee ſerve upon no hope? and to what end hath he endewed us with theſe rare gifts of his, which for the moſt part doe but put us to paine and trouble in this life, if we periſh like the bruit beaſts, which know not God.
But becauſe all are not of Plutarkes mind, wee will ſee if we can ſatisfie the contrary minded, by reaſon, for the better ſatiſfying of thoſe who take not ſo much paines as to enter into themſelves, I ſhall indeavour to paint out to them, their right ſhapes, by lively reaſon, which they have defaced by ignorance, and therefor now to the purpoſe.
Firſt I ſhewed before, that the ſoule is not a body, neither increaſeth nor decreaſeth with the body, but contrary wiſe, the more the body decreaſeth; the more the underſtanding increaſeth, the neerer the body draweth to death the more freely doth the mind underſtand, the more the body abateth the more powerfull is the mind, why then ſhould we thinke that the thing which becommeth the ſtronger, by the weakneſſe of the body, & which is advanced by the decay of the body, ſhould periſh to duſt with the body? a mans ſeeing fails, becauſe his eyes faile, but the blind mans underſtanding encreaſeth, becauſe his eyes are not buſied, and the old mans reaſon becommeth more perfect, by the loſſe of his ſight, & therefore why ſay we not, that the body failleth the ſoule, but the ſoule faileth not the body, that the glaſſes are out of the ſpectacles, but the eyes good ſtill.
Objoct. 1 But, Mans mortality pag. 13.ſaith R.O. the part or member is endowed with the faculty, & ſo ſeeing is in the eye naturally, & really, and not the ſoule ſees by the eye, and hearing locally in the eare, and ſo common ſence, judgment & memory locally adherent to, and inherent in their places, & hee proveth it, with this frigid argument: becauſe if the member be periſhed the ſence falles.
Anſw. To which I anſwer, if the ey be the thing that ſeeth, and the eare the thing that heareth, why doe we not ſee things double, and heare ſounds double, ſeeing wee have two eys & two ears, it is the ſoul then that ſeeth & heareth, and theſe which hee taketh to be our ſences are but the inſtruments of our ſences, for when our eys are ſhut or pickt out, we then behold a thouſand things in our mind, yea and then our underſtanding is moſt quick ſighted, when the quickeſt of our eyeſight, is as good as quenched, or quite dead how is it poſſible that the reaſonable ſoule ſhould be tied to the ſences? what a worthy reaſon is it to ſay the ſoule dyeth with the ſence, ſeeing the true ſences, do grow & increaſ, even then when the inſtruments of the ſences doe die.
Alſo I pproved before, that the ſoule is not the body, nor any part of the body, ſeeing then it is ſo, why meaſure we that by the body, which meaſureth al bodies, or make that to dye with the body, wherby the bodies that died many hundred yeares agoe, do after a certaine manner live ſtill, or who can hurt that thing, whom nothing hurteth or hindreth in that body? though a man looſe an arme, yet doth his ſoule remaine whole ſtil, let a man forgoe the one halfe of his body, yet is his ſoule as ſound as before, for it is united in its owne ſubſtance, & by the force and power of its ſelfe, it ſheddeth it ſelf into all parts of the body, though the body rot a way by peice meale, yet abideth the ſoule whole & undiminiſhed, let the blood drain out, the moving wax weake, the ſtrength periſh, yet abideth the mind ſound, & lively, it never forſakes its lodging, till there be no roome left for it to lodge in, when our ſences are overcome by death, then it doth moſt labour to ſurmount it ſelfe, working as goodly & Godly actions at that time when the body is at poynt to faile it, yea and oftentimes more godly too, then ever it did while the body was in health, as for example, it taketh order for it ſelfe, for our houſhold, for the commonwealth, for a whole kingdome, & that with more uprightneſſe, goodneſſe, wiſedome and modration, then ever it did before, yea and perchance in a body ſo far ſpent, ſo bare, ſo conſumed, ſo withered without, and ſo putrified within, that he that lookes upon him ſees nothing but earth, and yet to hear him ſpeake would raviſh a man up to heaven, now when a man ſees ſo lively a ſoule in ſo weake and wretched a body, may he not from reaſon conclude, as is ſaid in hatching of chickens, the ſhell is broken, but there commeth forth a chicken.
Secondly, for proofe that the ſoule is immortall, ſee what is the ordinary cauſe that things periſh; fire either goeth out for want of nouriſhment, or is quenched by his contrary water: water is reſolved into ayre by fire, which is his contrary: the cauſe why the Plant dieth, is extremity of cold, or drought, or unſeaſonable cutting, or violent plucking up; alſo mans body dieth by encreaſing, or diminiſhing the humors called complection, or by violence; of all theſe cauſes which can wee chuſe to have any power againſt our ſoule? I ſay againſt the ſoule of man, which (notwithſtanding it be united to matter to a body) is it ſelfe a ſubſtance unbodily, unmateriall, and only conceivable in underſtanding; nay, what can be contrary to that which lodgeth contraries equally in it ſelfe? which underſtandeth the one of them by the other, which coucheth them all under one skill; and to be ſhort, in which the contrarieties themſelves abandon their contrariety; ſo as they doe not purſue, but enſue one another.
Fire is hot, and water is cold,Contrarieties cannot kil the ſoule. our bodies miſlike theſe contraries, and are grieved by them, our mind linketh them together, without either burning or cooling it ſelfe, and it ſetteth the one of them againſt the other to know them the better, the things which deſtroy one another throughout the world, maintaine one another in our minds, nothing is more contrary to peace then warre; and yet mans mind can maintaine peace by preparing for warre, and lay earneſtly for war in ſeeking for peace; even death it ſelfe which diſpatcheth our life cannot be contrary to the life of the ſoule; for the ſoule ſeeketh life by death; what can the ſoule meet withall, in the whole world that can be contrary to it? which can enjoyne obedience to things moſt contrary; contrarieties then cannot do it.
Nor want of food.What then, can want of food? How can that want food in the world, which can feed on the whole world, or how can that forſake food, which the fuller it is, the hungrier it is; the more that it hath digeſted, the better able it is to digeſt; the more it hath, the more it deſireth; take from it the ſenſible things, and the things of underſtanding abide with it ſtill; bereave it of earthly things, and the heavenly remaine with it the more abundantly: to be ſhort, a bridge it of al worldly things; yea, and of the world it ſelfe, and even then doth it feed with greateſt eaſe, and maketh cheer agreeable to its owne nature.
Alſo, the body filleth it ſelfe to a certaine meaſure, and delighteth in ſome certaine things; but what can fill the mind? fill it as full as you can with the knowledge of things, and it is the more eager, and ſharper ſet to receive more; the more it taketh in, the more it ſtill craveth; and yet for all that it never feeleth any rawneſſe, it never catcheth a ſurfit for want of concoction; what ſhall I ſay more, diſcharge your underſtanding from minding it ſelfe, and then doth it live in him, and of him, in whom all things doe live; againe, fill it with the knowledge of it ſelfe, and then doth it feele it ſelfe moſt empty, and ſharpeſt ſet upon the deſire of the other; now then can that die for want of food, which cannot bee glutted with any thing, vvhichwhich is nouriſhed and maintained vvith all things; and vvhichwhich (in very deed) liveth upon him, by whom all the things which we wonder at here beneath are upheld.Nor violence.
Well, violence (you will ſay) perhaps may doe the deed; what is violence, but a juſtling of two bodies together, but the ſoul is no body, nor bodily ſubſtance, as I proved before, can there be any violence between a bodily, and ſpirituall ſubſtance or betweene two ſprituall ſubſtances; ſeeing that oftentimes when they would deſtroy one another, they uphold one another; and if the ſoule cannot be puſhed at; neither inwardly, nor outvvardly; is there any thing in nature, that can naturally hurt it?
No! will ſome ſay? Object. wee ſee it weakned by an incounter, as we may diſcerne by the ſenſes; the more excellent the thing is, which the ſence receiveth; ſo much the more the ſenſe it ſelfe offended, and grieved therewith: As for example, the feeling by ſire, the taſte by harſhneſſe, the ſmelling by ſtrong ſavour, the hearing by the hideouſneſſe of the noyſe, whether by a Thunder-clap, or by the falling of a River, the ſight by looking upon the Sun, upon fire, or any thing that hath a gliſtering brightneſſe.
I omit that in moſt of theſe, Anſw. it is not the ſenſe it ſelfe, but the outward inſtrument of ſence that is offended, & hurt: But let us here ſee whether ther be the like in the ſoule, or no; nay the contrary, the more of underſtanding, and excellency the thing is, the more doth it, comfort and refreſh the mind, if it be darke ſo that we underſtand it by halves, it hurteth us nor; yet it doth not delight us; nay, as we increaſe in underſtanding it, ſo it liketh us the better; and the higher it is, the more doth it ſtir up the power of our underſtanding; and (as you would ſay reach us the hand, to draw us to the attainment thereof; as for them that are dim-ſighted, we forbid them to looke upon the things that are over-bright; but for them of raweſt capacity, wee offer them the things that are moſt intelligible; when the ſence beginneth to perceive moſt ſharpely, then is it faine to give over; as if it felt the very death of it ſelfe, contrary wiſe, where the mind beginneth to underſtand, then is it moſt deſirous to hold on ſtill; and whence ariſeth this, but that our ſences worke by bodily Inſtruments, our mind worketh by a bodileſſe ſubſtance, which needeth not the helpe of the body; and ſeeing that the nature, the nouriſhment, and the actions of the ſoule are farre different, not only from the nature, nouriſhment and actions of the body, but alſo from all that either is done, or wrought by the body: can there be any thing more childiſh, then for us to demee our ſoules to be mortall, by the abating and decaying of our ſences, or by the mortality of our bodies? nay, contrariwiſe, it may be moſt ſoundly, and ſubſtantially concluded thereupon, that mans ſoule is of its owne immortall; ſeeing that all death as well violent, as naturall, commeth of the body, and by the body.
Thirdly, the immortality of the ſoule may be firmely proved, even from death it it ſelfe: The two beſt definitions of death that eyer I heard of, or read of, are theſe, and both true. 1. Death is a ſeperating of the matter from his forme. 2. Death is the utmoſt period of moving, from both which the immortality of the ſoule may be proved; and firſt of all from the firſt.
Wee have already proved the ſoule to be the forme, and the body muſt needs be the matter then, and the ſeperation of the ſoule from the body, is commonly called death: now then what death can there be of the ſoule, ſeeing it is immateriall, death muſt worke upon a matter, or nothing; for (as one ſaith) a man may take away the roundneſſe, or ſquarneſſe of a table of copper, becauſe they have no abiding, but in the matter, but had that or any thing elſe, ſuch a round, or ſquare forme, as might have abiding without matter, or ſtuffe wherein to be; out of all doubt, ſuch a forme or ſhape ſhould continue for ever; nay, which is more, how can that be the corrupter, of a thing, which is the perfection thereof? the leſſe our minds are tyed to theſe bodily things, the more lively, and cheerfull they be, at a word, the full and perfect life thereof, is the full and perfect with-drawing thereof from the body, and whatſoever the body is made of, and this follow by direct conſequence from the former. All theſe things are ſo clear that they need no proofe; for wee know that every thing worketh according to the proper being thereof; and that ſame which perfecteth the operations of a thing, perfecteth the being thereof alſo; it followeth therefore, that ſeeing the ſeperation of the body from the ſoule, and of the forme from the matter, perfecteth the operation, or working of the ſoule, (as I ſaid before) it doth alſo make perfect, & ſtrengthen the very being thereof; and therefore cannot in any wiſe corrupt it, and what elſe is dying but to bee corrupted? and what elſe is corrupting, but ſuffering? and what elſe is ſuffering, but receiving? and how can that which receiveth all things without ſuffering, receive corruption by any thing? fire corrupteth and marreth our bodies, and we ſuffer in receiving it: ſo alſo doth extreame cold; but if wee ſuffered nothing by it, it could not freeze us, our ſences likewiſe are marred, by the ſucceſſive force of the things that they light upon; and that is becauſe they receive, and perceive the thing that grieveth them; and for the manner of their behaving themſelves, towards their objects, is ſubject to ſuffering; but as the reaſonable ſoul which receiveth al things after one manner, that is by the way of underſtanding, by which it alway worketh, and is never wrought into; how is it poſſible for it, to corrupt or marre it ſelfe.
For what is the thing whereof our Soule ſuffereth ought in the ſubſtance thereof, I meane where by the ſubſtance of our ſoule is any way impaired or hurt, by minding, or conceiving the ſame in underſtanding? as little doth the fire hurt it, as the ayre, and the ayre, as the fire, as little hurt receiveth it, from the frozen Ice of Groenland, as from the ſcorching ſands of Africk, as little alſo, doth vice annoy it as vertue; for vice and vertue are ſo farre off from incumbring the ſubſtance of the ſoule, that our mind doth never conceive, or underſtand them better, then by ſetting together one againſt the other, that thing therefore, which doth no whit impaire it ſelfe, but taketh the ground of perfecting it ſelfe by all things, cannot be marred or hurt by any thing.
In the Second place, I ſaid, death is the uttermoſt poynt of moving, and the uttermoſt poynt of this life, for even in living we dye, & in dying we live, & there is not that ſtep that we make in this life, but wee ſtep forward unto death, after the manner of a diall or a clocke which endeth its moving, in moving from minut to minut, take a way moving from a bod, & it liveth no longer; now let us ſee if the ſoule alſo, be caryed with the ſame moving, if it be, it may dy with the body, if not it cannot, but we ſee it moves not with th… body, nay we ſee the contrary, a man may have his mind as free as an Emperour, though his body be in priſon, whether the mind reſt, or whether it be buſied, bout the proper operations thereof, it is not perceived, either by the panting of the hart, or by the beating of the pulſes, or by the breathing of the lunges, the body carries the ſoule about like a ſhip, the ſticking faſt therof, or the tying of it to a poſt, hinders not our going up and down in it ſtill.
Fourthly, if the ſoule be ſubject to the finall coruption of the body, it muſt needs be ſubject to the alteration therof alſo, and if it be ſubject to alterations it is ſubject to time alſo, for alterations or change are conſequents of moving, and moving is not made without time, now time paſt in reſpect of the body cannot be called againe, but in reſpect of the mind it is alwaies preſent, yea and time perfecteth accompliſheth and encreaſeth our mind, and refreſheth it from day to day, whereas contrary wiſe it ſorely weareth, waſteth away, and quit conſumeth the body. It follws then that the ſoule is not ſubject to thoſe changes and corruption, that alter the body, therefore cannot dy with it.
Fifth. It appears that the ſoul is immortal & incorruptible, becauſe it lives by incorruptible things, nothing in the world is nouriſhed by things better then it ſelfe, neither doth any of them containe greater things then it ſelfe, but the things that are corruptible doe live of corruptible things, and cannot live without corrupting them, as for example, beaſts live by herbs, men by beaſts, both by corrupting them turne them to nouriſhment, of their nature, and therefore things that live by incorruptible things, and can ſo diſgiſt them as to turne them into the nouriſhment of their nature, & yet not corrupt them, are incorruptible themſelves too. Now the reaſon able ſoule or mind of man, conceiveth reaſon and truth, and is fed, and ſtrengthened with them, and reaſon and truth, are things unchangable, not ſubiect to time place or alteration, or any thing elſe that may or can breed corruption, but are ſtedy, unchangable and everlaſting, for that twice two is fowr, that there is the ſame reaſon in the proportion, of eight to ſix, that there is from four to three, or that in a triangle, the three inner angles are equall to the two right angles, and truthes that neither years nor thouſands of yeares can chang, as true at this day as they were when Euclid firſt ſpake them, as true in our ſchooles as in his, it followeth then that the Soule comprehending reaſon and trueth, which are things free from coruption., cannot it ſelfe in any wiſe, be ſubject to corruption.
And in the ſixt and laſt place, we might fitly bring in ſuch an argument, as we did in the firſt Chap. viz. if all that is in us were mortall and tranſitory, we ſhould never queſtion what immortality is, for of contraryes the ſkill is all one, if a man had no actuall life or had it only by promiſe, (were it only a mortall life) hee could not diſpute of it, till he had it actually, neither by the ſame argument, could he ſpeake of immortallity, were he not immortall, but of this more before, therefore I Paſſe it heer.
CHAP. 4. Obiections againſt the Souls. immortality anſwered.
ANd firſt for the objection and argument of R. O. whom I ſupoſſe to be an ingenious man, I deſie him, to looke into him ſelfe, take a litle notice, of the dementions and parts therof, let him tell me the reaſon of the continuall motion of the heart, the breathing of the lungues, & not the effects of it, but the motive cauſe of it, if he cannot, then let him confeſſe he hath ſomething in himſelfe, which farre tranſcends himſelfe, and the weakneſſe of his capacity, which out of ignorance hee reaſons againſt, though he know not what it is, & therefore I reject all his arguments, ob Jgnorantiam Elenchi, and paſſe to other things objected to me.
Saith one, Object. the ſoule dieth with the body becauſe the ſoule and body are both one, and why thinkes hee ſo becauſe he ſees no more then the body.
I anſware, Anſw. this argument is all one with theres that denied there was a God, becauſe they ſaw him not, but yet by his works thou maiſt perceive there is a God, diſcerne alſo by the doings of thy ſoule, that thou haſt a ſoul, for in a dead body thou ſeeſt the ſame parts remaine but thou ſeeſt not the ſame workes that werein it before, when a man is dead his eye ſeeth nothing at all, yet there is nothing changed in his eye, but whil he is alive he ſeeth infinite things that are diverſe, the Powre then that ſeeth is not of the body how lively and quick ſighted ſoever the eye be, it ſeeth not it ſelfe, wonder not then though thou have a ſoule and yet thy ſoule ſeeth not it ſelfe, for if thy eye ſight ſaw it ſelfe, it were not a power or abillity of ſeeing, but a viſible thing, likewiſe if thy ſoule ſaw it ſelfe it were no more a ſoule, that is the worker in, and quickner of the body, but a very body unable to do any thing it ſelfe, a maſſy ſubſtance, ſubject to ſuffering, for wee can ſee nothing but bodies, & bodily ſubſtances, becauſe the organ of our ſight is corporal; but ſeeing thou conceiveſt ſo many divercities of bodies at once in thy imagination, needs muſt thou have a Power in thee which is not a body. Object.
But be it (ſay ſome) that we have a Power of ſence, yet have we not a power of reaſon, for that we call the power of reaſon or underſtanding, is nothing but an excellency or rather a conſequence of ſence, in ſo much that when ſence dieth, the reſidue dieth with it. Anſw.
In this very objection, thou haſt ſurmounted ſence, which thou couldeſt not have done, if thou hadſt had nothing in thee but ſence, or nothing far beyound ſence, for wheras thou ſaiſt, if the ſence dye, the reſt dieth alſo, it is a reaſon that proceedeth from one terme to another, and it is a gathering of reaſons which conclude one thing by another; now the ſences doe indeed perceive rheit objects, but yet how lively ſoever they be they reaſon not; we ſee a ſmoke, ſo far extendeth the ſence, but if we thence infer, therefore there muſt needs be a fire, and thereupon ſeeke who was the kindler thereof, that ſurmounteth the abillity of fence; we heare muſicke, that may a Beaſt do as well as we, but his hearing of it, is but as a bare ſound, whereas we in hearing, regard the harmony, and diſcerne the cauſe of the concords and diſcords which either delight or offend us, the thing that heareth the ſound, is the ſence, but the thing that judgeth of that which the ſence conceiveth, is another thing, the like may bee ſaid of ſmelling, taſting, and feeling, our ſmelling of ſents, our taſting of ſavours, & our feeling of ſubſtances, is indeed the ſix work of our ſences, but our judgment of the inward vertue of a thing by the outward ſent, or of the wholſomneſſe or unwholſomeneſſe of food by the taſt, or of the hotneſſe or vehemency of a feaver, by feeling the pulſe, yea and our proceeding even unto the very bowels of a man, whither the eye being the quickeſt of all ſences is not able to attaine, ſurely it is the work of a more mighty power then the ſence is, & indeed R. O. ſaith true on that, there are Beaſts, which doe heare, ſee, ſmell, taſt and feell, much better and quicker then man doeth, yet none of them confereth the contraries of ſounds, colours, ſents and ſavours; none ſorteth them out, to ſerving one of another or to the ſerving of themſelves;Iob. 39.20. Pſal. 49.20. Reade Plinies nat. hiſt. Elephants the reaſon is (as God ſaith of the Oſtrich) the Lord have given them no underſtanding, and ar David ſaith, the man without underſtanbing, dies like a Beaſt, ſhewing that a Beaſt hath none, but often times, man concludes contrary to his ſences, our eye tells us there are noe ſtares up at noone day, but reaſon tells us there are, or the ends of lines in a long walke, meet in a poynt, whereas reaſon certifies us that they run direct upon equall diſtances, one from the other, for want of this diſcretion certaine Elephants ſaith vetillio (though the wiſeſt of all Beaſts) which were paſſing over a long bridge, turned backe, being deceived, and yet they wanted fight no more then we doe, yet they that lead them were not deceived, their leaders then, had in them another power or vertue beſides their eye ſight, which corrected there ſight, and therefore ought to be of higher eſtimation, in like manner is it with the other ſences, our hearing tells us that the thunderclap is after the lightening, but reaſon aſſureth us that they are both together, for there is a certain power in us, that is able to diſcerne, what proportion is between hearing & ſeeing, alſo the taſt of one troubled with a diſeaſe of choller, beareth him in hand that even ſugar it ſelfe is bitter, which notwithſtanding he knoweth by reaſon to be untrue. To be ſhort, thoſe that have their ſences moſt quicke and lively, be not of the greateſt wiſdom, and underſtanding, a man then differeth from a beaſt, and excelleth them by ſome other power then ſence, a man rideth a great way to learne experience, the man perhaps comes home the wiſer, but his horſe which perhaps ſaw as much as he, comes home juſt as he went out.
Now you ſee then, there is a great difference betweene the ſence and the power that governeth the ſence; like as the report of a Spy is one thing, and the Spy himſelfe another, and the wiſedome of the Captaine which receiveth the report, and judgeth of it, is a third: nay, who can deny, but ſence and reaſon are divers things, or rather, who will not grant, that in many things they are cleane contrary? Sence bid deny, ſhun, and eſchew griefe: whereas reaſon biddeth ſometimes, proffer our legge to the Chyrurgion to be cut off. He that ſhould ſee Scevola, or Archbiſhop, Cranmer of late times, burne off their owne hands without once gnaſhing their teeth, would hee not thinke they were utterly void of ſence, ſo mightily doth reaſon over-rule ſence. To be ſhort, ſence hath his peculiar inclination, which is appetite, and reaſon likewiſe hath his, which is will, and like as reaſon doth oftentimes over-rule ſence, and is contrary to it, ſo will correcteth the apetite, or luſt that is in us, & warrath againſt it for in Agues and feavers wee covet to drink, in Apoplexies, and Bethargies to ſleepe, and in hunger to eate, yet from all theſe things doth our will reſtraine us: the more a man follows his luſt, the leſſe is he led by his will (for no man wils to be miſerable, which luſt leads him too) & the more he ſtandeth upon pleaſing of his ſences, the leſſe reaſon ordinarily uſeth he.
Secondly, let us conſider that bruit beaſts which have this ſenſitive part as well as we, if wee have no more then that, how comes it to paſſe, that a little child driveth whole flocks and herds of them, vvhether hee liſteth, & ſometimes whether they would not? wherof commeth it, that many of them in their kind, doe all live, neſtle, and ſing after one ſort: whereas men have their Laws, Common-wealths, manners of buildings, and formes of reaſoning, not only divers, but alſo commonly contrary? now what can harbour theſe contrarieties together, but only that which hath not any thing contrary to it: and wherein all things doe lay away their contrariety? Surely, it is not the ſence can doe it, whoſe proper and peculiar object is moſt contrary to ſence. Beſide this (as I ſaid before) whereas we conceive wiſedome, skill and vertue, and ſuch other things, as are all bodileſſe: our ſences can worke upon nothing, but the qualities of bodily ſubſtances: and whereas wee make univerſall rules of particular things, the ſences attaine no further, then the particular things themſelves: and whereas wee conclude of the cauſes by the effects, our ſences perceive nothing but the bare effects, ſo that hee that denieth, that beſides the common ſence, there is a reaſon, or underſtanding in Man, diſtinct and ſevered from ſence, is void both of underſtanding and ſence.
Yea, Object. but this reaſon (ſay they) or power of underſtanding, which is in Man, is corruptible as well as the power of perceiving by the ſences. I thinke I have proved the contrary already: nevertheles let us examin the reaſon a little further. The forme or ſhape of every thing (ſay they) doth periſh with the matter: Now the ſoule is, (as they would ſay) the forme or ſhape of the body; therefore it corrupteth with the body. This Argument were rightly concluded, if the ſoule were a materiall forme, but I have proved that the ſoule is immortall, and hath a continuance of it ſelfe: and indeed the more it is diſcharged of matter, the more it retaineth his own particular forme, therefore the corrupting of the matter toucheth not the ſoule at all.
Another ſaith, if dead mens ſoules live ſtill, why doe none of them come to tell us ſo?
And Anſw. now he thinketh he hath ſtumbled upon a very ſubtle device, Chriſt anſwers, Luke 16. ult. yet we will ſee a little the rationality, or rather the irrationality of it viz. of the objection.
What intercourſe I pray is there betweene things that have bodies, and things that have none? wee ſee there is ſmall, or no intercourſe betweene ſome Kingdomes under the Sunne. But we would have God ſend us ſoules from Heaven to make us beleeve, as who ſhould ſay, it ſtood God greatly in hand to make us beleeve, more then it did us that we ſhould beleeve, in effect, what elſe is all this, but a deſiring that ſome man might returne againe into his Mothers wombe, to encourage young babes againſt the bitter pinches and paines which they abide in the birth, which he would no leſſe abhorre then wee doe death, if he had the knowledge of them. Object.
But they will ſtill beare us in hand, that ſeeing the vegetive, and ſenſitive powers be corrupted and periſh, the underſtanding, or reaſonable part muſt needs periſh by the ſame rule: alſo,
To this (in a word) I anſwer, this is all one, Anſw. as if a man ſhould ſay, you told me ſuch a man was a very religious man, a good Fencer, and a good Muſician, but now he hath loſt his right hand, he can neither handle ſword nor lute: how then can hee be a religious man ſtill, as you reported him to be? nay, though he looſe Inſtruments, yet ceaſeth he not to be an honeſt man, yea and a Fencer, and Lute-player too in reſpect of skill; likewiſe, when our ſoules have forgone theſe exerciſes, yet ceaſe they not to be the ſame they were before. To make this a little cleare yet, of the powers of the ſoule, ſome are exerciſed by the inſtruments of the body, & otherſome, without any helpe or furtherance of the body at all. Theſe which are exerciſed by the body, are the ſences, and powers of the ſences, and the powers of the growing, which may carry the ſame like anſwer, that is betweene a Muſician, and his Lute. Breake his Lute, his cunning remaineth, but his putting it in practice faileth; give him another Lute, and he fals to playing againe afreſh. Give unto the oldeſt Hag in the world, the ſame eyes he had when he was young, he ſhall ſee as well as ever he did: after the ſame manner it is with the growing and thriving power, the vegative power in man, reſtore to it a good ſtomack, a ſound Liver, and a perfect heart: it ſhall execute its function, as well as ever it did before.
The power which worketh of it ſelfe without the body, is the power of reaſon and underſtanding, which if wee will, wee may call the mind, but if you ſtill doubt thereof, conſider when thou mindeſt a thing earneſtly, what thy body furthereth thy mind therein? and thou ſhalt perceive, that the more fixedly thou thinkeſt upon it, the leſſe thou mindeſt the things before thee, in ſo much, that many times, the earneſtneſſe of his thoughts drives a man (that is going) out of his way, as who ſhould ſay, that the workings of the body are the greateſt impediments that can be, to the peculiar acts of the mind: nay, which is more, this underſtanding part, groweth ſo much the ſtronger and greater, the leſſe it is occupied & buſied about theſe baſe and contemptible things, and is altogether drawne home, wholly to it ſelfe, as is plainly ſeene in thoſe that want their eyes, whoſe minds are commonly moſt apt to underſtand, and moſt firme to remember, do we debate of a thing in our ſelves? neither our bodies nor ſences are buſied about it, doe wee will the ſame? as little doe they ſtir for that too: to underſtand, and to will, which are the operations of the mind, the ſoule hath no need of the body, as for working and being, they accompany one another, ſaith Ariſtotle. Therefore to continue ſtill in being, the ſoule hath not to doe with the body, nor any need of the body: therefore for the ſoule to act well, or to be well, it had need be quite freed from the body.
But Object. (ſay they) wee ſee men forgoe their reaſon as fooles and melancholly perſons, and ſeeing it is forgone, it may alſo be corrupted, and if corrupted, it may alſo die, for what is death, but an utter and full corruption?
Nay, thou ſhouldſt ſay rather, I have ſeen divers, who have ſeemed to have loſt their right wits, have recovered them againe by good diet and medicinable drinks, but had they beene utterly loſt and gone; no phyſick could have reſtored them againe; therefore of neceſſity the ſoule was as ſound as before: it was but like an ecclypſe of the Sunne, it ſeems be dimmed; but it is but by the comming of the Moone betweene him and us, in his light there is no abatement at all, but only quoad nos, likewiſe our eye conceiveth things according to the ſpectacles through which it looketh upon them: take away the Moon or clouds and the Sun ſhineth cleare: take away the impediments, the eye ſeeth clear, purge away the humours, our imaginations ſhall be pure, and our underſtanding as bright as ever, it fareth not with our ſoules, as it doth with our bodies, which after a long ſickneſſe retaine ſtill, either a hardneſſe of the ſpleene, or a ſhortneſſe of the breath, weakneſſe of body, or a falling downe of Rheume upon the lungs; nor as a wound that retaineth a ſcarre which cannot be worne out, for neither in their underſtanding, nor in their wils doe our ſoules feele any abatement: and this appeareth in lunatick folks, and others, who have their wits troubled at times, and by fits, for they be not vexed but at the ſtirring of their humour, being at other times ſober and well enough ſtaid in their wits: the like is ſeen in them that have the falling ſickneſſe, their underſtanding ſeemes only to be ecclipſed, during the time of their fits, but afterward they be as diſcreet as though they ayled nothing, you ſhall never ſee any body out of his wits, in whom the Phyſician may not manifeſtly perceive, either ſome default of tht inſtruments, or ſome overflowing of ſome melancholly humour, that troubled and marred his body, before it troubled or impaired his mind. To be ſhort, whoſoever ſaith, that mans ſoul periſheth with the body, becauſe it is troubled by the diſtemperature, or indiſpoſition of the body, may as well uphold and maintaine, that the Child in his mothers wombe dieth with his mother, becauſe he moveth with her, and is partaker with her in her harmes, and throws, by reaſon of the ſtraight conjunction that is between them, and yet we ſee many children have lived ſafe and ſound, notwithſtanding their mothers have died: yea, and ſome of them have come into the world, Object. even by the death of their mothers.
Laſtly, whereas ſome ſay, that our minds cannot conceive any thing here but by the helpe of the imagination: and therfore when the imagination is gone, with the inſtruments whereto it is tyed, the ſoule can not worke, nor conſequently be.
To this I anſwer, that it is all one, as if they ſhould ſay, that becauſe the child being in his mothers womb taketh nouriſhment of her blood, by his navill, therefore he cannot live when he is come out of her womb, and his navill ſtrings cut off, when wee ſee that then is the time that the mouth, and the tongue, and the other parts of the Child doe their dutie, which ſerved before to no purpoſe, ſaving that they were prepared for the time to come: even ſo the ſoule being ſcaped out of the body, as a Child out of the wombe, ſhall begin to performe his operations by himſelfe, and that more certainely, for that it ſhall not bee ſubject to falſe reports, neither to the ſences inward or outward, but to the very things themſelves, which it ſhall have ſeene and learned in it ſelfe: To be ſhort, it ſhall live, but not in priſon, it ſhall ſee, but not through ſpectacles; it ſhall underſtand, but not by reports; it ſhall will, but not by the way of luſting: the infirmities which the body caſteth upon it now ſhall then be done away.
Let us conclude then, that our ſoule is an underſtanding, reaſonable power, over which death or corruption have no power: If any man yet doubt thereof, let him but examine himſelfe: for even his owne doubts will prove it to him: If he ſtand in contention ſtill, let him fall to reaſoning with himſelfe, for by concluding his Arguments to prove his ſoule mortall, hee ſhall give judgement himſelfe, that it is immortall. If I have left out any thing that might bee alleaged, (for who is able to alleage all in juſtification of any point) let it ſuffice that here is ſufficient for the ſatisfaction of the ingenuous: If any be otherwiſe minded, let him ſee how they can anſwer theſe my aforeſaid Arguments: Conſider vvhat I have writen, and the Lord give you a right underſtanding.
Scriptures to prove the being of the Soule, after it is ſeperated from the Body, and before the Reſurrection.
I Am in a ſtrait betwixt two, having a deſire to depart and to be with Chriſt which is farre better, nevertheleſſe to abide in the fleſh is more needfull for you, Phil. 1.23.24. heers a being with Chriſt after a departure.
And to abide in the fleſh, why is this added, if there were not an abiding out of the fleſh, before the reſurrection.
Math, 10.28. Feare not them that kill the body but are not able to kill the ſoule but rather feare him that is able to caſt both body and Soule into Hell.
Heer's a body that may be killed, a ſoule that cannot be killed but to evade thes R: O, makes a great puzle to prove noe hell, till the reſurrection, a luſty ſtrong, ſuperlogicall argument, there is noe hell till the reſurrection, Ergo man hath noe Immortall ſoule Riſum teneatis amici? might not his Dromodoticall argument be rightly retorted backe heer upon himſelfe?
2. Cor, 5.6.8. Therefore wee are alwais confident, knowing that whilſt we are at home in the body we are abſent from the Lord we are confident I ſay, and willing rather to be abſent from the body and to be preſent with the Lord.
The words are ſo plaine they need noe explanation but hold forth the immortallity of the ſoule as cleere as the ſnnne at no one day.
Luke: 23.43. Verile I ſay unto thee, this day thou ſhalt be with me in paradice.
Is this the word of God? may a man build his faith upon it? then both Chriſt and the penitentiall theife were that day in parradice, there bodies were not there then their ſoules muſt; unlſſe any ſhould ſay parradice is in the grave, which is as rediculous as falſe.
Eccles: 12.7. Then ſhall duſt returne to the earth as it was and the ſpirit ſhall return to God who gave it.
A ſcripture beyond exception, heere is ſoule & body deſcribed by their originall, by their pedegree, the one taken from the earth, to it, it muſt returne, the other comes from Iehovah and to him it ſhall returne who is not the God of the dead but of the living.
FINIS.
End of the text · Thomas Hooker, The Immortality of Mans Soul (1645)