Works of Hooker, Letter 4
Mr. HOOKER'S ANSVVER TO THE SUPPLICATION THAT Mr. TRAVERS Made to the COUNCIL. To my Lord of Canterburie his Grace.
MY Duty in my most humble wise remembred: May it please your Grace to understand, That whereas there hath been a late Controversie raised in the Temple, and pursued by Mr. Travers, upon conceit taken at some words by me uttered, with a most simple and harmless meaning: In the heat of which pursuit, after three publick Invectives, silence being enjoyned him by Authority, he hath hereupon, for defence of his proceedings, both presented the Right Honourable Lords, and others of Her Majesties Privy Councel with a Writing; and also caused or suffered the same to be Copied out, and spread through the hands of so many, that well nigh all sorts of men have it in their bosomes: The matters wherewith I am therein charged, being of such quality as they are, and my self being better known to your Grace, than to any other of their Honors besides, I have chosen to offer to your Grace's hands a plain Declaration of my Innocence in all those things wherewith I am so hardly, and so heavily charged, lest, if I still remain silent, that which I do for quietness sake, be taken as an Argument, that I lack what to speak truly and justly in mine own defence.
2. First, because M. Travers thinketh it an expedient to breed an Opinion in mens mindes, that the root of all inconvenient events which are now sprung out, is, the surly and unpeaceable disposition of the man with whom he hath to do; therefore the first in the rank of Accusations laid against me, is, my intorformity, which have so little inclined to so many, and so earnest Exhortations and Conferences, as my self, he saith, can witness, to have been spent upon me, for my better fashioning unto good correspondence and agreement.
3. Indeed, when at the first, by means of special Well-willers, without any suit of mine, as they very well know (although I do not think it had been a mortal sinne, in a reasonable sort, to have shewed a moderate desire that way) yet when by their endeavour, without instigation of mine, some Reverend and Honourable, favourably affecting me, had procured her Majesties's grant of the Place; At the very point of my eptring thereinto, the Evening before I was first to Preach, he came, and two other Gentlemen joyned with him: The effect of his Conference then was, That he thought it his Duty to advise me, not to enter with a strong hand, but to change my purpose of Preaching there the next day, and to stay till he had given notice of me to the Congregation, that so their allowance might seal my Calling. The effect of my Answer was, That, as in a place where such Order is, I would not break; so here, where in never was, I might not, of my own head, take upon me to begin it: But liking very well the motion of the Opinion which I had of his good meaning who made it, requested him not to mislike my Answer, though it were not correspondent to his minde.
4. When this had so displeased some, that whatsoever was afterwards done or spoken by me, it offended their taste, angry informations were daily sent out, intelligence given farr and wide, what à dangerous Enemy was crept in; the worst that Jealousie could imagine, was spoken and written to so many, that at the length some knowing me well, and perceiving how injurious the Reports were, which grew daily more and more unto my discredit, wrought means to bring Mr. Travers and me to a second Conference. Wherein, when a common Friend unto us both, had quietly requested him to utter those things wherewith he found himself any way grieved: He first renewed the memory of my entring into this Charge, by vertue only of an Humane Creature (for so the want of that formality of Popular Allowance was then censured) and unto this was annexed a Catalogue, partly of causeless Surmises, as, That I had conspired against him, A mere formality it had been to me in that place; where, as no man had ever used it before me, so it could neither further me if I did use it, nor hinder me if I did not.and that I sought Superiority over him; and partly of Faults, which to note, I should have thought it a greater offence than to commit, if I did account them Faults, and had heard them so curiously observed in any other than myself, they are such silly things, as, Praying in the entrance of my Sermon onelyonly, and not in the end; naming Bishops in my Prayer, Kneeling when I pray, and Kneeling when I receive the Communion, with such like, which I would be as loath to recite, as I was sorry to hear them objected, if the rehearsal thereof were not by him thus wrested from me. These are the Conferences wherewith I have been wooed to entertain Peace and good Agreement.
5. As for the vehement Exhortations he speaketh of, I would gladly know some reason, wherefore he thought them needful to be used. Was there any thing found in my Speeches or Dealings that gave them occasion, who are studious of Peace, to think that I disposed my self to some unquiet kinde of Proceedings? Surely, the special Providence of God I do now see it was, that the first words I spake in this Place, should make the first thing whereof I am accused, to appear not onelyonly untrue, but improbable, to as many as then heard me with indifferent ears; and do, I doubt not, in their Consciences clear me of this suspition. Howbeit, I grant this were nothing, if it might he shewed, that my Deeds following were not suitable to my words. If I had spoken of Peace at the first, and afterwards sought to molest and grieve him, by crossing him in his Function, by storming, if my pleasure were not asked, and my Will obeyed in the least occurrences, by carping needlesly sometimes at the manner of his Teaching, sometimes at this, sometimes at that Point of his Doctrine: I might then with some likelihood have been blamed, as one disdaining a peaceable hand when it had been offered. But if I be able (as I am) to prove that my self have now a full year together, born the continuance of such dealings, not onelyonly without any manner of resistance, but also without any such complaint, as might lett or hinder him in his course, I see no cause in the world, why of this I should he accused, unlesse it be, lest I should accuse, which I meant not. If therefore I have given him occasion to use conferences and exhortations to peace, if when they were bestowed upon me I have despised them, it will not be hard to shew some one Word or Deed wherewith I have gone about to work disturbance: one is not much, I require but one. OnelyOnly, I require if any thing be shewed, it may be proved, and not objected onelyonly as this is, That I have joyned to such as have alwayes opposed to any good order in his Church, and made themselves to be thought indisposed to the present estate and proceedings. The words have reference, as it seemeth, unto some such things as being attempted before my comming to the Temple, went not so effectually (perhaps) forward, as he that devised them would have wished. An Order, as I learn, there was tendred, that Communicants should neither kneel, as in most places of the Realm; nor sit, as in this Place the Custom is; but walk to the one side of the Table, and there standing till they had received, pass afterwards away round about by the other. Which being on a sudden begun to be practised in the Church, some sate wondering what it should mean, others deliberating what to do: Till such time as at length by name one of them being called openly thereunto, requested that they might do as they had been accustomed, which was granted; and as Mr. Travers had ministred this way to the rest, so a Curate was sent to minister to them after their way. Which unprosperous beginning of a thing (saving onelyonly for the inconvenience of needless alterations, otherwise harmlesse) did to disgrace that Order, in their conceit who had to allow or disallow it, that it took no place. For neither could they ever induce themselves to think it good, and it so much offended Mr. Travers, who supposed it to be the best, that he since that time, although contented to receive it as they do, at the hands of others, yet hath not thought it meet they should ever receive out of his, which would not admit that Order of receiving it, and therefore in my time hath been always present not to minister, but only to be ministred unto.
6. Another Order there was likewise devised, but an Order of much more weight and importance. This soil in respect of certain Immunities and other Specialties belonging unto it, seemed likely to bear that which in other places of the Realm of England doth not take. For which cause, request was made to her Majesties Privy Councel, that whereas it is provided by a Statute, there should be Collectors and Sidemen in Churches, which thing, or somewhat correspondent unto it, this place did greatly want; it would please their Honours to motion such a matter to the Antients of the Temple. And, according to their honourable manner of helping forward all motions so grounded, they wrote their Letters, as I am informed to that effect. Whereupon, although these Houses never had use of such Collectors and Sidemen as are appointed in other places, yet they both erected a Box to receive mens Devotions for the Poor, appointing the Treasurer of both Houses to take care for bestowing it where need was, and granting further, that if any could he entreated (as in the end some were) to undertake the labour of observing mens slacknesse in Divine duties, they should be allowed, their Complaints heard at all times, and the faults they complained of, if Mr. Alveyes private admonition did not serve, then by some other means to be redressed; but according to the old received Orders of both Houses. Whereby the substance of their Honors Letters were indeed fully satisfied. Yet, because Mr. Travers intended not this, but, as it seemed another thing; therefore, notwithstanding the Orders which have been taken, and, for any thing I know, do stand still in as much force in this Church now, as at any time heretofore, He complaineth much of the good Orders which he doth mean have been withstood. Now it were hard, if as many as did any ways oppose unto these and the like Orders, in his perswasion good, do thereby make themselves Dislikers of the present state and proceeding. It they, whom he aimeth at, have any other wayes made themselves to be thought such, it is likely he doth known wherein, and will, I hope, disclose wherein it appertaineth, both the Persons whom he thinketh, and the causes why he thinketh them so ill-affected. But whatsoever the men be, doe their Faults make me faulty? They doe, if I joyn my self with them. I beseech him therefore to declare wherein I have joyned with them. Other joyning than this with any man here, I cannot imagine: It may be I have talked, or walked, or eaten, or interchangeably used the Duties of common humanity with some such as he is hardly perswaded of. For I know no Law of God or Man, by force whereof they should be as Heathens and Publicans unto me, that are not gracious in the eyes of another man, perhaps without cause, or if with cause: yet such cause as he is privy unto, and not I. Could he, or any reasonable man think it is a charitable course in me, to observe them that shew by external courtesies a favourable inclination toward him, and if I spy out any one amongst them, of whom I think not well, hereupon to draw such an accusation as this against him, and to offer it where he hath given up his against me? which notwithstanding, I will acknowledge to be just and reasonable, if he or any man living shall shew that I use as much as the bare familiar company but of one, who, by word, or deed hath ever given me cause to suspect or conjecture him, such as here they are termed, with whom complaint is made that I joyn my self. This being spoken therefore, and written without all possibility of proof, doth not Mr. Travers give me over-great cause to stand in some fear, lest he make too little conscience how he useth his Tongue or Pen? These things are not laid against me for nothing; they are to some purpose if they take place. For in a minde perswaded that I am, as he deciphereth me, one which refuses to be at peace with such as embrace the truth, and side my self with men sinisterly affected thereunto, any thing that shall be spoken conferring the unsoundness of my Doctrine, cannot choose but he favourably entertained. This presupposed, it will have likelihood enough, which afterwards followeth, that many of my Sermons have tasted of some sour leaven or other, that in them he hath discovered many unsound matters. A thing much to be lamented, that such a place as this, which might have been so well provided for, hath fallen into the hands of one no better instructed in the truth. But what if in the end it be found, that he judgeth my words, as they do colours, which look upon them with green spectacles, and think that which they see is green, when indeed that is green whereby they see.
7. Touching the first point of this discovery, which is about the matter of Predestination, to set down that I spake (for I have it written) to declare and confirm the several branches thereof, would be tedious now in this Writing, where I have so many things to touch, that I can but touch them onelyonly. Neither is it herein so needful for me to justifie my speech, when the very place and presence where I spake, doth it self speak sufficiently for my clearing. This matter was not broached in a blinde Alley, or uttered where none was to hear it, that had skill with Authority to controll, or covertly insinuated by some gliding Sentence.
8. That which I taught was at Pauls Cresse; it was not hudled in amongst other matterr, in such sort that it could passe without noting; it was opened, it was proved, it was some reasonable time stood upon. I see not which way my Lord of London, who was present and heard it, can excuse so great a fault, as patiently, without rebuke or controlment afterwards, to hear any man there teach otherwise than the Word of God doth; nor as it is understood by the private interpretation of some one or two men, or by a special construction received in some few Books, but, as it is understood by al… Churches professing the Gospel, by them all, and therefore even by our own also amongst others. A man that did mean to prove that he speaketh, would surely take the measure of his words shorter.
9. The next thing discovered, is an opinion about the assurance of mens perswas… sions in matters of Faith. I have taught, he saith, That the assurance of things which we believe by the Word, is not so certain as of that we perceive by sense. And, is it as certain? Yea, I taught as he himself, I trust, will not deny, that the things which God doth promise in his Word, are surerunto us, than any thing which we touch, handle, or see. But are we so sure and certain of them: If we be, why doth God so often prove his Premises unto us, as he doth by argument taken from our sensible experience? We must be surer of the proof, than of the thing proved, otherwise it is no proof. How is it, that if ten men doe all look upon the Moon, every one of them knoweth it as certainly to be the Moon as another; but many believing one and the same Promise, all have not one and the same fulnesse of Perswasion? How falleth it out, that men being assured of any thing by sense, can be no surer of it than they are; whereas the strongest in faith that liveth upon the earth, hath always need to labour, and strive, and pray, that his assurance concerning Heavenly and Spiritual things, may grow, encrease, and be augmented?
10. The Sermon wherein I have spoken somewhat largely of this point, was long before this late Controversie rose between him and me, upon request of some of my friends, seen and read by many, and amongst many, some who are thought able to discern: And I never heard that any one of them hitherto, hath condemned it as containing unsound matter. My Case were very hard, if as oft as any thing I speak displeasing one man's taste, my Doctrine upon his onelyonly word should be taken for sour leaven.
11. The rest of this discovery is all about the matter now in question; wherein he hath two faults predominant, would tire out any that should answer unto every point severally: un apt speaking of School-Controversies, and of my words so untoward a reciting, that he which should promise to draw a Man's Countenance, and did indeed expresse the parts, at leastwise most of them, truly, but perversely place them, could not represent a more offensive Visage, than unto me my own speech seemeth in some places, as he hath ordered it. For answer whereunto, that Writing is sufficient, wherein I have set down both my words and meaning in such sort, that where this Accusation doth deprave the one, and either mis-interpret, or, without just cause, mis-like the other, it will appear so plainly, that I may spare very well to take upon me a new needlesse labour here.
12. OnelyOnly at one thing which is there to be found, because Mr. Travers doth here seem to take such a special advantage, as if the matter were unanswerable, he constraineth me either to detect his oversight, or to confesse mine own in it. In settling the Question between the Church of Rome and us, about Grace and Justification, lest I should give them an occasion to say, as commonly they doe, that when we cannot refute their Opinions, we propose to our selves such instead of theirs, as we can refute; I took it for the best and most perspicuous way of teaching, to declare first, how far… we doe agree, and then to shew our disagreement: not generally (as Mr. Travers hisaHis word… be these, The next Sabbath day after this, Mr. Hisker kept the way he entred into before, … bestowed his whole hour and more, onelyonly upon the questions he had moved and maintained. Wherein he so set the agreement of the Church of Rome with us, and their disagreement from us, as if we had consented in the greatest and weightiest Points, and differed onelyonly in certain smaller matters. Which Agreement noted by him in two Chief Points, is not such as he would have made men believe: The one, in that he said they acknowledge all men Siners, even the Blessed Virgin, though some of them freed her from Sinne: For the Council of Trent holdeth, that she was free from Sinne: Another, In that he said, They reach Christ's Righteousnesse to be the onelyonly meritorions Cause of taking away Sinne, and differ from as onelyonly in the applying of it. For, Thomas Aquinas, their Chief Schoolman, and Archbishop Catherinus, teach. The Christ took away onelyonly Original sinae, and that the rest are to be taken away by our selves: yea, the Council of Trent teacheth. That the Righteousness whereby we are righteous in God's sight. Is inherent righteousnesse, which must needs be our own works, and cannot be understood of the righteousnesse inherent onelyonly in Christ's Person, and accounted unto us. words would carry it, for the easier fastning that upon me, wherewith, saving onelyonly by him, I was never in my life touched;) but about the matter onelyonly of Justification: for further I had no cause to meddle at this time. What was then my Offence in this Case? I did, as he saith, so set it out, as if we had consented in the greatest and weightiest Points, and differed onelyonly in smaller matters. It will not be found, when it commeth to the balance, a light difference where we disagree, as I did acknowledge that we doe, about the very essence of the Medicine whereby Christ cureth our Disease. Did I goe about to make a shew of Agreement in the weightiest Points, and was I so fond as not to conceal our disagreement about this? I doe with that some indifferency were used by them that have taken the weighing of my words.
13. Yea, but our Agreement is not such in two of the chiefest Points, as I would have men believe it is? And what are they? The one is, I said, They acknowledge all men sinners, even the Blessed Virgin, though some of them free her from sin. Put the case I had affirmed, That onelyonly some of them free her from sin, and had delivered it as the most current opinion amongst them, that she was conceived in sin: doth not Bona… Tature say plainly, Omnesfere, in a manner all men do bold this … doth he not bring many reasons wherefore all men should hold it? Were their voyces since that time ever counted, and their number found smaller which hold it, than theirs that hold the contrary? Let the question then be, Whether I might say, The most of them acknowledged all men sinner, even the Blessed Virgin her selfe. To shew, that their general received opinion is the contrary, the Tridentine Council is alledged, peradventure not altogether so considerately. For if that Council have by resolute determination freed her, if it held as Mr. Travers saith it doth, that she was free from sin; then must the Church of Rome needs condemn them that hold the contrary: For what thee Council holdeth, the same they all doe and must hold, But in the Church of Rome, who knoweth not, that it is a thing indifferent to think and defend the one or the other? So that, by this Argument, the Council of Trent holdeth the Virgin free from sinne; ergo, it is plain that none of them may, and therefore untrue, that most of them do acknowledge her a Sinner, were for able to overthrow my supposed Affection, if it were true that the Council did hold this. But to the end it may clearly appear, how it neither holdeth this not the contrary, I will open what many do conceive of the Canon that concerneth this matter. The Fathers of Trent perceived, that if they should define of this matter, it would be dangerous howsoever it were determined. If they had freed her from her Original sinne, the reasons against them are unanswerable, which Bonave…ture and others do alledge, but especially Thomas, whose line, as much as may be, they follow. Again, if they did resolve the other way, they should control themselves in another thing, which i… no case might be altered. For they profess to keep no day holy in the honour of an … …holy thing; and the Virgin Conception they honour with a*This doth much trouble Thomas, holding her Conception stained with the natural blemish inherent in mortal seed. And …e…e … he putieth it est with two Answers; the one, I h…t… her Church of Rome doth not allow, but tolerate the Feast; which answer now will not serve: The other, that being sort she was sanct fi…e… before birth, but on sure how long a while …her her Conception, therefore under the names of her Conception-day, they honor the …it… of her Sanctification. So that besides this, they have ne…r no soder .3 make the certain allowance of their Feast, and their uncertain sentence concerning her sin, to cleare together, H…. … …orl… quast. 87 on. 8. ab. 2. & 3. Feast, which they could not abrogate without cancelling a Constitution of …ystem Quo…. And, that which is worse, the World might parhaps suspect, that if the Church of Rome did… amisse before in this, it is not impossible for her to fail in other things. In the end, they did wisely quo… out their Canon by a middle thred establishing the Feast of the Virgin's Conception, and leaving the other question doubtful as they found it, giving onelyonly a Cavent, that no man should take the Decree, which pronounceth all Mankinde originally sinfull, for a definitive Sentence concerning the Blessed Virgin. This in my sight is plain by their own words,Annot in Rom. 5. sect. 9. Declarat hac ipsa sancta Synod…, &c. Wherefore our Country-men at Rhe…s, mentioning this Point, are marvellous wary how they speak, they touch it as though it were a hot coal: Many godly devout men judge, that our blessed Lady was neither burn not cou…d in sin. Is it their wont to speak ainely of things definitively set down in that Councell?
In like sort, we finde that the rest, which have since that time of the Tridentine Synod written of Original sin, are in this Point, for the mostpart, either silent, or very sparing in speech: and, when they speak, either doubtful what to think, or whatsoever they think themselves; fearfull to set down any certain Determination. If I be thought to take the Canon of this Council otherwise than they themselves doe, let him expound in, whose Sentence was neither last asked, not his Penne least occupied in setting it down; I mean Androdius, whom Gregory the thirteenth hath allowed plainly to confest, that it is a matter which neither expresse evidence of Scripture, not the Tradition of the Fathers, nor the Sentence of Church hath determined;Lib. 5. deleas. fidei. that they are too surly and self-willed, which defending their opinion, are displeased with them by whom, the other is maintained: Finally, that the Father of Trent have not set down any certainty about this Question, but lest it doubtful and indifferent.
Now whereas my words, which I had set down in Writing, before I uttered them, were indeed these, Although they imagine, that the Mother of our Lord Iesus Christ, were, for his honour, and by his special protection, preserved clean from all sinne; yet concerning the rest, they teach as we do, that all have sinned. Against my words they might, with more pretence, take exception, Because so many of them think she had sinne: which exception notwithstanding, the Proposition being indefinite, and the matter contingent, they cannot take, because they grant, That many whom they account grave and devout amongst them, think, that she was clear from all sinne. But, whether Mr. Travers did note my words himself, or take them upon the credit of some other man's noting, the Tables were faulty wherein it was noted: All men sinners, even the Blessed Virgin. When my second Speech was rather, All men, except the Blessed Virgin. To leave this; another fault he findeth, that I said, They teach Christs Righteousnesse to be the onelyonly meritorious cause of taking away sinne, and differ from us onelyonly in the applying of it. I did say, and doe, They teach as we do, that although Christ be the onelyonly meritorious cause of our Iustice, yet as a medicine which is made for Health, doth not heal by being made, but by being applyed: So, by the merits of Christ, there can be no Life nor Iustification, without the application of his merits: But about the manner of applying Christ, about the number and power of means whereby he is applyed, we dissent from them. This of our dissenting from them is acknowledged.
14. Our agreement in the former is denied to be such as I pretend. Let their own words therefore and mine concerning them, be compared. Doth not Andradius plainly confess,Orthod. lib. 3… In Sent. dist. 1. quaest. 4. art. 6. Our sins do shut, and onelyonly the merits of Christ open the entring unto blessedness? And So to; It is put for a good ground, that all, since the fall of Adam, obtained Salvation onelyonly by the Passion of Christ: Howbeit, as no cause can be effectual without applying, so neither can any man be saved, to whom the suffering of Christ is not applied. In a word, who not? When the Council of Trent, reckoning up the causes of our first Justification, doth name no end, but God's Glory, and our Felicity; no efficient, but his Mercy; no Instrumental, but Baptism; no meritorious, but Christ; whom to have merited the taking away of no sin but Original, is not their opinion: which himself will finde, when he hath well examined his Witnesses, Catharinus and Thomas. Their Jesuites are marvellous angry with the men out of whose gleanings Mr. Travers seemeth to have taken this,Bellarm. Judic. de lib. Concor. Mend…. 11. Nemo Catholicorum unquam sic docuit, sed credimus & profitemur Christum in Cruce pro omnibus omnino peccatis satisfecisse, tam originalibus quàm actualibus. they openly disclaim it; they say plainly, Of all this Catholicks, there is no one this did ever so teach; they make solemn protestation, We believe and profess, That Christ upon the Cross hath altogether satisfied for all sins, as well Original as Actual. Indeed they teach, that the merit of Christ doth not take away Actual sinne, in such sort as it doth Original; wherein, if their Doctrine had been understood, I for my speech had never been accused. As for the Council of Trent, concerning inherent Righteousness, what doth it here? No man doubteth, but they make another formal cause of Justification than we do. In respect whereof, I have shewed you already, that we disagree about the very essence of that which cureth our Spiritual disease. Most time it is which the grand Philosopher hath, Every man judgeth well of that which he knoweth; and therefore till we know the things throughly, whereof we judge, it is a point of judgment to stay our judgment.
15. Thus much labour being spent in discovering the unsoundness of my Doctrine, some pains he taketh further to open faults in the manner of my teaching, as that, I bestowed my whole hour and more, my time and more than my time, in discourses utterly impertinent to my Text. Which, if I had done, it might have past without complaining of to the Privy Council.
16. But I did worse, as he saith, I left the expounding of the Scriptures, and my ordinary Calling, and discoursed upon School-points and questions, neither of edification, nor of truth. I read no Lecture in the Law, or in Physick. And except the bounds of ordinary Calling may be drawn like a Purse, how are they so much wider unto him than to me, that he which in the limits of his ordinary Calling, should reprove that in me which he understood not; and I labouring that both he and others might understand, could not do this without forsaking my Calling? The matter whereof I spake was such, as being at the first by me but lightly touched, he had in that place openly contradicted, and solemnly taken upon him to disprove. If therefore it were a School-question, and unfit to be discoursed of there, that which was in me but a Proposition onelyonly at the first, wherefore made he a Probleme of it? Why took he first upon him to maintain the negative of that, which I had affirmatively spoken, onelyonly to shew mine own opinion, little thinking that ever it would have been a Question? Of what nature soever the Question were, I could doe no lesse than there explain my self to them, unto whom I was accused of unsound Doctrine; wherein if to shew, what had been through ambiguity mistaken in my words, or misapplied by him in this Cause against me, I used the distinctions and helps of Schools; I trust that herein I have committed no unlawful thing. These School-implements are acknowledged by grave and wise men not unprofitable to have been invented.Cal…. l…st. l. …. c. 6. sect. 9. The most approved for Learning and Judgement do use them without blame, the use of them hath been well liked in some that have taught even in this very place before me: the quality of my Hearers is such, that I could not but think them of capacity very sufficient, for the most part, to conceive harder than I used any; the cause I had in hand did in my judgment necessarily require them which were then used: when my words spoken generally, without distinctions had been perverted, what other way was there for me, but by distinctions to lay them open in their right meaning, that it might appear to all men, whether they were consonant to truth or no? And, although Mr. Travers be so inured with the City, that he thinketh it unmeet to use any speech which savoureth of the School, yet his opinion is no Canon: though unto him, his minde being troubled, my speech did seem like Fetters and Manacles, yet there might be some more calmly affected, which thought otherwise; his private judgment will hardly warrant his bold words, that the things which I spake, were neither of edification nor truth. They might edifie some other for any thing he knoweth, and be true for any thing he proveth to the contrary. For it is no proof to cry: Absurdities, the like whereunto have not been heard in publick places within this Land since Queen Marie's days! If this came in earnest from him, I am sorry to see him so much offended without cause; more sorry, that his fit… should be so extream, to make him speak he knoweth not what. That I neither affected the truth of God, nor the peace of the Church; Mihi pro minimo …est, it doth not much move me, when Mr.Travers doth say that, which I trust a greater than Mr. Travers will gainsay.
17. Now let all this which hitherto he hath said be granted him; let it be as he would have it, let my Doctrine and manner of teaching be as much disallowed by all men's Judgements as by his, what is all this to his purpose? He alledgeth this to be the cause why he bringeth it in. The High-Commissioners charge him with an indiscretion and want of duty, in that he inveighed against certain Points of Doctrine, taught by me as erroneous, not con…erring first with me, nor complaining of it to them. Which faults, a sea of such matter as he hath hitherto waded in, will never be able to scoure from him. For the avoiding Schism and disturbance in the Church, which must needs grow, if all men might think what they list, and speak openly what they think; therefore by a*In the Advertisments published in the seventh year of her Majesties Reign: If any Preacher, or Parson, Vicar, or Cura…e so licensed, shall fortune to preach any matter tending to dissention, or to decoration of the Religion and Doctrine received, that the Hearers denounce the same to the Ordinary, or to the next Bishop of the same place, but not openly to co…trary, or to impugn the same speech so disorderly uttered, whereby may grew Offence, and Disquiet of the People, but shall be convinced and reproved by the Ordinary, after such agreeable order as shall be seen to him, according to the gravity of the Offence: And that it be presented within one month after the words spoken. Decree agreed upon by the Bishops, and confirmed by her Majesties Authority, it was ordered, That erroneous Doctrine, if it were taught publickly, should not be publickly refuted; but that notice thereof should be given into such as are by her Highness appointed to hear, and to determine such Causes. For breach of which Order, when he is charged with lack of Duty, all the faults that can be heaped upon me, will make but a weak defence for him: As surely his defence is not much stronger, when he alledges for himself, That he was in some hope his speech in proving the truth, and clearing those scraples which I had in my self, might cause me either to embrace sound Doctrine, or suffer it to be embraced of others; which, if I did, he should not need to complain: that, It was meet he should discover first what I had sown, and make it manifest to be tares, and then desire their Sithe to cutt it down: that, Conscience did binds him to doe otherwise, than the foresaid Order requireth; that, He was unwilling to deal in that publick manner, and wished a more convenient way were taken for it: that, He had resolved to have protested the next Sabbath day, that he would some other way satisfie such as should require it, and not deal more in that place. Be it imagined, [let me not be taken as if I did compare the offenders, when I do not, but their Answers onelyonly] that a Libeller did make this Apology for himself, I am not ignorant, that if I have just matter against any man, the Law is open, there are Judges to hear it, and Courts where it ought to be complained of; I have taken another course against such or such a man, yet without breach of Duty; forasmuch as I am able to yield a reason of my doing, I conceive some hope, that a little discredit amongst men would make him ashamed of himself, and that his shame would work his amendment; which if it did, other accusation there should not need; could his answer he thought sufficient, could it in the judgement of discreet men, free him from all blame? No more can the hope Mr. Travers conceived, to reclaim me by publick speech, justifie his fault against the established Order of the Church.
18. His thinking it meet; he should first openly discover to the People the Tares that had been sown amongst them, and then require the hand of Authority to mow them down, doth onelyonly make it a Question, Whether his opinion that this was meet, may be a priviledge or protection against the lawful Constitution which had before determined of it as of a thing unmeet. Which Question I leave for them to discusse whom it most concerneth. If the Order be such, that it cannot be kept without hazarding a thing so precious as a good Conscience, the peril whereof could be no greater to him, than it needs must be to all others whom it toucheth in like Causes; then this is evident, it will be an effectual motive, not onelyonly for England, but also for other Reformed Churches, even Geniva it self [for they have the like] to change or take that away which cannot but with great inconvenience be observed. In the mean while the breach of it may, in such consideration, be pardoned [which truly I wish howsoever it be] yet hardly defended as long as it standeth in force uncancelled.
19. Now, whereas he confesseth another way had been more convenient, and that he found in himself secret unwillingnesse to doe that which he did, doth he not say plainly, in effect, that the light of his own Understanding, proved the way that he took perverse and crooked; Reason was so plain and pregnant against it, that his Minde was alienated, his Will averted to another course? yet somewhat there was that so farr over-ruled, that it must needs be done even against the very stream, what doth it bewray? Finally his purposed Protestation, whereby he meant openly to make it known, that he did not allow this kinde of proceeding, and therefore would satisfie men otherwise, and deal no more in this Place, sheweth his good minde in this, that he meant to stay himself from further offending; but it serveth not his turn. He is blamed because the thing he hath done was amisse, and his Answer is, That which I would have done afterwards had been well, if so be I had done it.
20. But as in this he standeth perswaded, that he hath done nothing besides duty, so he taketh it hardly, that the High Commissioners should charge him with indiscretion. Wherefore, as if he could so wash his hands, he maketh a long and a large declaration concerning the carriage of himself: how he waded in matters of smaller weight, and how in things of greater moment; how wary he dealt; how naturally he took his things rising from the Text; how closely he kept himself to the Scriptures he took in hand; how much pains he took to confirm the necessity of believing Iustification by Christ onelyonly, and to shew how the Church of Rome denieth that a man is saved by Faith alone, without works of the Law; what the Sons of Thunder would have done, if they had been in his case; that his Answer was very temperate, without immodest or reproachful speech, that when he might before all have reproved me, he did not, but contented himself with exhorting me before all, to follow Nathan's example, and revisit my Doctrine; when he might have followed Saint Paul's example in reproving Peter, he did not, but exhorted me with Peter, to endure to be withstood. This Testimony of his discreet carrying himself in the handling of his matter, being more agreeably framed and given him by another than by himself, might make somewhat for the praise of his Person; but for defence of his action unto them by whom he is thought undiscreet, for not concerning privately before he spake, will it serve to answer, that when he spake, he did it considerately? He perceiveth it will not, and therefore addeth reasons, such as they are: as namely, how he purposed at the first to take another course, and that was this, Publickly to deliver the truth of such Doctrine as I had otherwise taught, and at convenient opportunity to conferr with me upon such points. Is this the rule of Christ? If thy Brother offend openly in his speech, controll it first with contrary speech openly, and conferr with him afterwards upon it, when convenient opportunity serveth? Is there any Law of God or Man, whereupon to ground such a Resolution? any Church extant in the World, where Teachers are allowed thus to doe, or to be done unto? He cannot but see how weak an allegation it is, when he bringeth in his following this course, first in one matter, and so afterwards in another, to approve himself, now following it again. For if the purpose of doing of a thing so uncharitable be a fault, the deed is a greater fault; and doth the doing of it twice, make it the third time fit and allowable to be done? The weight of the Cause, which is his third defence, relieveth him as little. The weightier it was, the more it required considerate advice and consultation, the more it stood him upon to take good heed, that nothing were rashly done or spoken in it. But he meaneth weighty, in regard of the wonderful danger, except he had presently withstood me without expecting a time of Conference. This Cause being of such moment that might prejudice the Faith of Christ, encourage the ill-affected to continue still in their damnable wayes, and other weak in Faith, to suffer themselves to be seduced, to the destruction of their Souls, he thought it his bounden duty to speak before he talked with me. A man that should read this, and not know what I had spoken, might imagine that I had at the least denied the Divinity of Christ. But they which were present at my speech, and can testifie, that nothing passed my lips more than is contained in their Writings, whom, for soundnesse of Doctrine, Learning, and Judgment, Mr. Travers himself doth, I dare say, not onelyonly allow, but honour; they which heard, and do know, that the Doctrine here signified in so fearful manner, the Doctrine that was so dangerous to the Faith of Christ, that was so likely to encourage ill-affected men to continue still in their damnable wayes; that gave so great cause to tremble for fear of the present destruction of Souls, was onelyonly this, I doubt not but God was merciful to save thousands of our Fathers, living heretofore in the Popish Superstition, in as much as they sinned ignorantly; and this spoken in a Sermon, the greatest part whereof was against Popery, they will hardly be able to discern how CHRISTIANITY should herewith be so grievously shaken.
21. Whereby his fourth excuse is also taken from him. For what doth it boot him to say, The time was short wherein he was to preach after me, when his Preaching of this matter perhaps ought, surely might have been either very well omitted, or at least more conveniently for a while deferred; even by their Judgements that cast the most favourable aspect towards these his hasty proceedings. The poyson which men had taken at my hands, was not so quick and strong in operation, as in eight dayes to make them past cure; by eight dayes delay, there was no likelihood that the force and power of his Speech could dye; longer meditation might bring better and stronger proofs to minde, than extemporal dexterity could furnish him with: And, who doth know whether Time, the onelyonly Mother of sound Judgement and discreet dealing, might have given that action of his some better ripeness, which, by so great festination hath, as a thing born out of time, brought small joy unto him that begat it? Doth he think it had not been better, that neither my speech had seemed in his eyes as an Arrow sticking in a thigh of Flesh; nor his own as a Childe whereof he must needs be delivered by an hour? His last way of disburthening himself, is by casting his Load upon my Back, as if I had brought him by former Conferences out of hope, that any fruit should ever come of conferring with me. Loth I am to rip up those Conferences, whereof he maketh but a slippery and loose relation. In one of them the question between us was, Whether the perswasion of Faith concerning remission of sinnes, eternal life, and whatsoever God doth promise unto man, be as free from doubting, as the perswasion which we have by sense concerning things tasted, felt, and seen? For the Negative, I mentioned their example, whose Faith in Scripture is most commended, and the experience which all faithful men have continually had of themselves. For proof of the Affirmative, which he held. I desiring to have some reason, heard nothing but all good Writers oftentimes incul…a…ed. At the length, upon request to see some one of them, Peter Martyr's Common places were brought, where the leaves were turned down, at a place sounding to this effect. That the Gospel doth make Christians more vertuous; than moral Philosophy doth make Heat hens: which came not near the questions by many miles.
22. In the other Conference he questioned about the matter of Reprobation, misliking first, that I had termed God a permissive, and no positive cause of the evil, which the Schoolmen do call malum cuspae. Secondly, that to their Objection who say, If I be elected, do what I will, I shall be saved, I had answered, that the will of God in this thing is not absolute, but conditional, to save his Elect believing, fearing, and obediently, serving him. Thirdly, that to stop the mouths of such as grudge and repine against God for rejecting Cast aways, I had taught that they are not rejected, no not in the purpose and counsel of God, without a foreseen worthinesse of rejection going, though not in time, yet in order… before… For if God's electing do in order… (as needs it must) presuppose the foresight of their being that are elected, though they be elected before they be; nor onelyonly the positive foresight of their being, but also the permissive of their being miserable, because Election is through mercy, and mercy doth always presuppose misery: it followeth, that the very Chosen of God acknowledge to the praise of the riches of his exceeding free compassion, that when he in his secret determination set it down, Those shall live and not dye, they lay as ugly spectacles before him, as Lepers covered with dung and mine, as ulcers putrified in their Fathers …oyns, miserable, worthy to be had in detestation; and shall any forsaken Creature be able to say unto God, Thou didst plunge me into the depth, and assign me unto endless torments, onelyonly to satisfie thine own will, finding nothing in me for which I could seem in thy sight so well worthy to feel everlasting flames?
23. When I saw that Mr. Travers carped at these things, onelyonly because they lay not open, I promised at some convenient time to make them clear as light both to him and all others. Which, if they that reprove me will not grant me leave to doe, they must think that they are for some cause or other more desirous to have me reputed an unsound man, then willing that my sincere meaning should appear and be approved. When I was further asked what my grounds were? I answered, that Saint Paul's words concerning this Cause were my grounds. His next Demand, What Author I did follow in expounding Saint Paul, and gathering the Doctrine out of his words, against the judgement (he saith) of all Churches, and all good Writers. I was well assured, that, to control this over-reaching speech, the sentences which I might have cited out of Church-Confessions, together with the hast learned Monuments of former times, and not the meanest of our own, were tho i… number than perhaps he would willingly have heard of: but what had this booted me? For, although he himself in generality do much use those formal speeches, All churches and all good Writers: yet, as he holdeth it, in Pulpit, lawful to say in general, the Pa…uims think this, or the Heathens that, but utterly unlawful to cite any sentence of theirs that say it: so he gave me at that time great cause to think, than my particular alledging of other mens words, to shew their agreement with mine, would as much have displeased his minde, as the thing it self for which it had been alledged; for he knoweth how often he hath in publick place bitten me for this although I did never in any Sermon use many of the Sentences of other Writers, and do make most without any; having always thought it meetest, neither to affect nor contemn the use of them.
24. He is not ignorant, that in the very entrance to the talk, which we had privately at that time, to prove it unlawful altogether in Preaching, either for confirmation, declaration, or otherwise, to cite any thing but mere Canonical Scripture, he brought in, The Scripture is given by inspiration, and is profitable to teach, improve, &c. urging much the vigour of these two Clauses; The man of God and every good work. If therefore the work were good which he required at my hands, if privately to shew why I thought the Doctrine I had delivered to be according to Saint Paul's meaning, were a good work, can they which take the place before alledged for a Law, condemning every man of God, who… in doing the work of Preaching any other way useth human Authority, like it in me, if, in the work of strengthening that which I had preached, I should bring forth the testimonies and the sayings of mortal men? I alledged therefore that which might under no pretence in the world be disallowed, namely reasons, not meaning thereby mine own reason, as now it is reported, but true, sound, divine reason; reason whereby chose Conclusions might be out of Saint Paul demonstrated, and not probably discoursed of onelyonly; reason, proper to that science whereby the things of God are known; Theological Reason, without Principles in Scripture that are plain, soundly deduced more doubtful inferences, in such sort that being heard they cannot be denied, not any thing repugnant unto them received, but whatsoever was before otherwise by miscollecting gathered out of dark places, is thereby forced to yield it self, and the true consonant meaning of Sentences not understood, is brought to light. This is the reason which I intended. If it were possible for me to escape the Ferula in any thing I do or speak, I had undoubtedly escaped in this. In this I did that which by some is enjoyned as the only allowable, but granted by all as the most sure and safe way, whereby to resolve things doubted of in matters appertaining to Faith and Christian Religion. So that Mr. Travers had here small cause given him to be weary of conferring, unlesse it was in other respects, than that poor one which is here pretended, that is to say, the little hope he had of doing me any good by conference.
25. Yet behold his first reason of not complaining to the High Commission, is, That sith I offended onelyonly through an over-charitable inclination, he conceived good hope, when I should see the truth cleared, and some scruples, which where in my minde, removed by his diligence, I would yield. But what experience soever he had of former Conferences, how small soever his hope was, that fruit would come of it, if he should have conferred, will any man judge this a Cause sufficient, why to open his mouth in publick, without any one word privately spoken: He might have considered the men do sometimes reap, where they sow but wish small hope; he might have considered, that although unto me (whereof he was not certain neither) but if to me his labour should be as Water spilt or poured into a torne dish, yet to him it could not be fruitlesse to do that, which Order in Christian Churches, that which Charity amongst Christian men, that which at many men's hands, even common humanity it self, at his, many other things besides, did require. What fruit could there come of his open contradicting in so great haste, with so small advice, but such as must needs be unpleasant, and mingled with much ace…bity? Surely, he which will take upon him to defend, that, in this, there was no over-sight, must beware, left, by such defences, he leave an opinion dwelling in the mindes of men, that he is more stiff to maintain what he hath done, then careful to doe nothing but that which may justly be maintained.
26. Thus have I, as near as I could, seriously answered things of weight: with smaller I have dealt, as I thought their quality did require. I take no joy in striving, I have not been nuzled or trained up in it. I would to Christ they which have at this present enforced me hereunto, had so ruled their hands in any reasonable time, that I might never have been constrained to strike so much as in mine own defence. Wherefore to prosecute this long and redious contention no further, I shall wish that your Grace and their Honours (unto whose intelligence the dutiful regard, which I have of their Judgments, maketh me desirous, that as accusations have been brought against me, so that this my answer thereunto may likewise come) did both with the one the other, as Constantine with Books containing querulous matter. Whether this be convenient to be wished or no, I cannot tell: But sith there can come nothing of contention, but the mutual waste of the Parties contending, till a common enemy dance in the ashes of them both, I do wish heartily that the grave advice which Constantine gave for re-uniting of his Clergy so many times, upon some small occasions, in so lamentable sort divided; or rather the strict Commandment of Christ unto his, that they should not be divided at all; may at the length, if it be his blessed will, prevail so farr, at least in this corner of the Christian world, to the burying and quite forgetting of strife, together with the Causes that have either bred it, or brought it up, that things of small moment never disjoyn them, whom one God, one Lord, one Faith, one Spirit, one Baptism, bands of so great force have linked; that a respectively eye towards things wherewith we should not be disquieted, make us not, as through infirmity the very Patriarchs themselves sometimes were, full gorged, unable to speak peaceably to their own Brother. Finally, that no strife may ever be heard of again, but this, Who shall hate strife most, who shall pursue peace and unity with swiftest paces.