The Quaker Converted to Christianity, Treatise · Postscript – Reply to postscript
J. C's POSTSCRIPT.
OH that theſe ſmitings may be as Balm, for they are the words of a Friend to thy poor loſt Soul, as at preſent thou art, oh feel them, feel them, and be not wroth becauſe of them, leſt the gate of Mercy be ſhut againſt thee.
Anſw. In Luke 18.23. If I have ſpoken evil, hear Witneſs of the … (ſaith the Lord Chriſt) but if well why ſmiteſt thou me? ſo if I live writ any thing falſe confute it plainly, if not, why doſt thou rail at me? how then can I receive thoſe ſmitings for bearing witneſs to the Truth, as Balm, when-as it is not the Balm of Goſpel-Love, but like the Vinegar and Gall they gave to Chriſt: and the words of this Friend but like the kiſſes of ſuch a Friend as Judas was, that would betray … redeemed Soul into the hand of damnable errors that would …roy it, thou bid'ſt me feel them. I have felt them, and perceive from what Spirit they proceed, by the ſharpneſs of them, and cannot but be grieved that there ſhould ſtill remain in thee ſuch a keen, bitter, proud, Phariſaical, Socinian Spirit, againſt ſuch a good ancient, wholſom, ſound, comfortable, ſaving, holy Truth, as the Imputed Righteouſneſs of Chriſt, to poor fallen, loſt undone ſinners, without ſtrength to keep the Law and ſave themſelves, and a Spirit of Hell and Satan, directly contrary to the bleſſed Angelical Spirit: the Angels rejoyce when a Sinner is converted, but thou and thy Brethren are very angry at this young Man's Converſion. Now I am not wroth as thou thinkeſt, becauſe of thy ſmitings, but they have ſtirred my Zeal againſt er…, for the Truth the more, which ſhall by the Grace of God be improved to the utmoſt in preachings and writings againſt your ways: …ycing that the Keys are in Davids hand, Jeſus Chriſt's not thine; for then the Gates of Mercy would be ſhut againſt all ſuch as we are, but they ſtand open, and for ſuch Rebels as thou art to the Grace of Chriſt Jeſus, and ſuch Apoſtates from the Truth, if peradventure God will give thee Repentance, to the acknowledging of the Truth, that thou mayeſt be recovered out of the ſnare of the Devil, that art taken Captive by him at his Will, 2 Tim. 2.25, 26.
An Anſwer to the Aditional POSTSCRIPT.
THe Chriſtian Judicious Reader, having paſſed the foregoing lines, by this time ſeeth that what followeth in this Poſtſcript, Pag. 18. is but a meer fallacious harangueof words purpoſely ſtitched together to deceive ſome weak ones: this Teſtimony of thine is indeed like the Apples of Sodom, touch them, and they immediately moulder into duſt, let them be examined and they are found to be hollow, rotten, ſhouking, but I have done it already, and therefore need not do it over again.
And now, that all may know thou art a diſſembler; I challen…e thee to Anſwer to theſe following Queries in thy next Book, to which if thou Anſwereſt me plainly, briefly, cordially, properly to the truth of them, thou wilt diſcover thy ſelf, that one of theſe two things will follow. Either, that thou art a perfect Cheat in theſe lines thou haft writ, and ſo groſs a Heretick, that thou art not worthy that a Chriſſ… an ſhould eat or drink with thee. Or, Secondly that thou haſt preſently renounced Quakeriſm, and if ſo, why then we deſire thee to publiſh thy Repentance, withal, promiſing to Anſwer any Queſtion thou wilt put to me, to try the Principles of my Religion by, and in thy Anſwer, let me have I pray thee a ſolemn appeal unto God that thou ſpeakeſt according to the bare literal ordinary meaning of the Words and Phraſes, which hath been received among the ſerious Profeſſors of the Chriſtian Religion: this may do much to put an end to the controverſie and ſatisfie many.
1. Doſt not thou know that the Independent, Presbyterian and Anabaptiſt party are both in their Preachings, and Writings, for an Experimental ſpiritual knowledg of Chriſt, and that they do generally aſſert, that a bare Dogmatical, and Hiſtorical knowledg of Jeſus of Nazareth, is not ſufficient for Salvation, without the Truths be inwardly taught by the Spirit, becauſe thou doſt inſinuate ſo much in the 8. P. as if they were only for an Hiſtorical, and againſt an Experimental Knowledg.
2. Doſt not thou believe that ſome may know the Myſtery, and ſo be …, without ever hearing of, or knowing the Hiſtory of Jeſus of Nazareth?
3. Whether is Jeſus Chriſt now a Perſon out of Man, or only a Principle, or Quality in Man?
4. Doſt thou believe that Man that was born of Mary the Virgin at Bethlehem in Judea, to be the Meſſiah, the Chriſt of God.
5. Doſt thou Believe that the Man Chriſt is any where now in being beſides that being that the Quakers ſay he hath in them? and if ſo, …here is he? In Heaven Earth, or in every Man, and every Grea…re?
6. Whether the Light that you ſay every Man hath, be a Creature or no?
7. Whether the Light that every Man hath, be of the very ſame Nature with the Spirit of Faith and Regeneration, or of a different kind? or take it thus, Whether it differ from the new Creature in …cie?
8. Whether that which Jeſus Chriſt of Nazareth did and ſuffered above ſix hundred years ſince in Judea, be not the matter of fallen Man's Inſtification in the ſight of God?
9. Whether any actions or ſufferings of any beſides theſe of his, have …y merit, worth, deſert in them, to purchaſe anything at God's hand for any of Mankind?
10. Whether Chriſt Jeſus died in the room, place, ſtead of any, or only for their benefit or advantage?
11. Whether God's imputing Righteouſneſs to any Man, be any thing elſe, but his putting Righteouſneſs into the Creature, by Sancti…ing of it?
12. Whether Juſtification be not an Act of god, in abſolving and …quitting a ſinner for Chriſt's ſake, in oppoſition to condemning, as in Rom. 8. Who ſhall lay any thing to the charge of God's Elect, it is Gad that Juſtifies, who ſhall Cond…mn? and accounting him Righteous, for the perſonal Righteouſneſs ſake of Chriſt that was wholly without the ſinner?
13. Whether God doth not find every one ungodly and in their ſin…, when he firſt gives Faith to them that juſtifies them, according to that Rom. 5. He Juſtifieth the ungodly?
14. Whether by the Blood of Chriſt thou mean eſt any thing that is not in thy heart and ſoul, within thy ſelf? whether thou meaneſt that material Blood that was ſhed from that material Body of Jeſus of Na…teth, when he did hang upon the Tree at Mount Calvary, without the Gates of Jeruſalem, withal his material real ſufferings both of Soul and Body?
15. Whether that Blood the…e ſhed, was not the Blood of God according to Acts 20.28. he being God as well as Man?
16. Whether Remiſſion of all ſins was not actually purchaſed, by the Death of Chriſt, above 1600 years ſince, for all that have been or ſhall be ſaved?
17. Is any Man any father Juſtified than Sanctified, any farther forgiven than according to that Degree that ſin is Mortified in him.
18. Whether is Juſtification any thing elſe but an Act of the Light within every Man upon obedience to it giving Peace?
19. Whether is there any good work done by any Man, before he is Juſtified and forgiven all his ſins?
20. Whether Faith as a Habit in, or Act of our Mind, or any good work proceeding from the Spirit in us, be any part of that Righteouſneſs that Juſtifies?
21. Whether there is any ſuch thing in the Nature of God as Vindictive Juſtice, ſo that ſin muſt be puniſhed upon all them that accept not of the Atonement of Chriſt Jeſus by the Sacrifice of himſelf?
22. Whether the Light within, or the perſon of Chriſt without, be the object of Juſtifying Faith, or whether Faith be any thing but obedience to the Light that every Man hath?
23. Whether have not all the Sons of Men, (Chriſt excepted) the guilt of Adam's firſt tranſgreſſion upon them, before they are Juſtified and called, and ſo are by Nature Children of Wrath, Rom. 5. in him we all ſinned.
24. Are any ſo perfect in this Life as to be above the confeſſion of Sin to God?
25. Of what Uſe is that Interceſſion of Chriſt as a High-Prieſt in Heaven?
26. Whether there be a higher Prophecy than the Writings of the Prophets and Apoſtles? and it ſo, where is it, and what is it?
27. Are not the Holy Scriptures of the Prophets and Apoſtles, the Rule of Faith and Life?
28. Whether doſt thou believe, that the ſime natural Body of Man after the departure of the Soul from it, doth riſe to Life again.
29. Whether are our diſtinct perſonal Beings preſerved in the future ſtate? whether we loſe them being ſwallowed up into God at death?
30. Whether the Light that every Man believed in, obeyed, truſted to, is not the Jeſus, the Righteouſneſs, the Juſtification, the Blood, the Remiſſion, the Myſtery, the Experience, the Faith, the Cleanſing, the Sanctification; the Shedding, Drinking, Sprinkling of the Blood, is it not the price of infinite value, that freeth from the Wrath, is it not the Life, the Vertue of the Blood, the choice Raiment, the putting it … the opening of the Underſtanding, to know the Myſtery, which words and phraſes are all in this thy Teſtimony: Anſwer plainly, is there any more in thy whole Treatiſe, and this Poſtſcript than this? viz. to the Light, obey the Light, and whoever doth not, is but in the Hiſtory, is but a Prodigal, in a … Country, ſeeding among the Swine; a poor, naked, ſtarved Sinner, every one that takes not up this P…inciple (i. e.) is not a Quaker.
Let the Reader in theſe two following Columns compared together, … how near a kin the Quakers erroneous ways, opinions, and Practi…, are to thoſe of the Papiſts; and ſo judg, whether they had not their Original from Rome, and John Crook, do thou ſee thy ſelf in this …, and behold thy ſpots, that they are not the ſpots of God's Chil…, ſee how like the Daughter is to the Mother; the young to the … Antichriſt, and repent, and come out from among them leſt thou with thy followers taſt of her Plagues.
The Quakers and the Papiſts Parallel'd.
| The Quaker. | The Papiſt. |
| 1. THe Quaker Believes that every one of then Teachers is infallible, whilſt he is a Preaching and Writing, in or by the Light. | 1. THe Papiſt Believes that the Pope is infal…ib…e in the Chair, |
| 2. That the Body at Devonſhire Houſe muſt determine all things, and every particular Quaker is to ſtoop to the Light of that Body although his and her particular Light dictates otherwiſe. See the Book ſtiled the Hypocriſie and Tyranny of the Quakers. | 2. The Papiſt for an implicit Faith, and a believing as the Church believes. |
| 3. The Quaker ſets up his Light within, equal with the Scriptures; nay, above them. | 3. The Papiſt ſets up their Traditions equal with the Scripture. |
| 4. The Quakers are for Enthuſiaſm, immediate Revelations, and Voices, and Viſions. | 4. Many of the Papiſt's Doctrines and Orders came this way, by pretended Revelation, ſee Stillingfleet's Fanaticiſm of the Church of Rome. |
| 5. The Quakers ſay the firſt Motions to evil ariſing in the Heart if not conſented to by the Will, are not ſin. | 5. Theſe ſay the ſame, viz. that Concupiſcence is not ſin. |
| 6. For Perfection in this Life. | 6. So the Papiſt, for a State without ſin in this Life, the Beguardij in Germany. Stillingfleet Idolatry of the Church of Rome, Page 294. |
| 7. That to attend to the Light that every one hath, is ſufficient for Salvation. | 7. See Stillingfleet idolatry pag. 295. That a ſort of Papiſts ſaid that every intellectual Being hath enough within it ſelf to make it happy. |
| 8. That Man is juſtified by ſomething within him. | 8. Bellarmine and others, that Man is juſtified by Inherent Righteouſneſs. |
| 9. That the Righteouſneſs that is wrought by the Light which they call Spirit, in obedience thereunto is the Righteouſneſs of God and ſo Juſtifies. | 9. The Papiſts ſay that the Righteouſneſs which the Spirit works, is the Righteouſneſs of God, and therefore Juſtifies. |
| 10. The Quaker, that Works done in the Light, are of value, worth, and accepted. | 10. The Papiſt, That Chriſt Merited, that our good works might Merit. |
| 11. Theſe ſay, that if we obey and follow the Light that every Man hath the New Creature and Salvation, and all Good will come. | 11. Theſe, that there is the Merit of Congruity, (i. e.) a worth in ſome good works, we do before Converſion, for the ſake of which God gives ſaving Grace & the Spirit |
| 12. The Quakers, againſt the lawfulneſs of taking an Oath. | 12. Stilling. Idolat. page 290. The Spiritual Brethren of the Franciſcan Order, were againſt the takeing an Oath. |
| 13. The Quaker ſaith, as John … in his laſt Book, that Law and Goſpel are one. | 13. Bellarmine the Jeſuit, in his writings ſaith the ſame. |
| 14. The Quaker ſpeaks of Forgre…eſs of ſins paſt i. e.) till Converſion upon turning to the Light. | 14. The Papiſts you may ſee in their Writings, ſpeak of this very much, which is called the firſt Inſtitution. |
| 15. The Quakers in ſcorn (as J.C. in his late Book) ſpeaks of … Belief, that we their Adverſa… ſeek to be ſaved by, calling our … a fancy and imagination. | 15. The Papiſt calls Proteſtants Solifidians, in a jeere, as thinking to be juſtifyed by Faith alone; and they frequently call the Faith of Proteſtants after the ſame rate, viz. a Fancy, &c. |
| 16. The Quakers write and … as if they did think that … will be ſaved but themſelves. | 16. The Papiſts ſay, none will be ſaved out of the Church of Rome. |
| 17. The Quakers deny the Salu… of the Hat to his Neighbour, … to give any Titles to any Men. | 17. See Stilling. Idolat. pag. 314. Ignatius Loyola, the firſt founder of the Order of the Jeſuites, was in this very mind, viz. denied to put off the Hat to any, and to give any Titles to Men, giving this Reaſon, that it proceeded from too great fear of Men. |
| 18. The Quakers are for ſilent Meetings, making it eſſential to … way. | 18. Stilling. Idolat. page 332. There is an account of ſome of the Papiſt's ways of Devotion, ſome of them were for abſtractedneſs of Life Mental Prayer, Paſſive Unions with God in the Deiform fund of the Soul, a ſtate of introverſion, and for attendance upon God alone in the depths of the Spirit, for pure actuations in the Spirit, theſe are their own words, out of their own Books; ſee Stillingfleet, they are for the vacuity of the Soul, and … ſolitude, &c. Stilling. Idol. 322. |
| 19. They are againſt making uſe of our Reaſon, and underſtandings in Divine matters, as in Crooks you may ſee, and in Faldoes Key. | 19. The Papiſt ſpeaks of an intire Union with God, whereby the Soul is Deified, that it is to be attained by ſelf-annihilation, the … of nothingneſs, the Union of nothing with nothing. Now … compare Penningtons and … Canting Language, with this, ſee … they be not akin, Stilling. Idol.… |
| 20. The Quakers do ſpeak of the everlaſting Goſpel, they are come out withal, a new Prophecy deſpiſeing the Scripture, talking much of the Spirit in oppoſition to the Scriptures, that when this People began then the day came, Chriſt's Light came, the pouring out of the Spirit came, looking upon themſelves as having a greater meaſure than any fort of people before them: owning it in Writing, that there is no uſe of any Goſpel-Ordinances, as breaking Bread, &c. calling them ſhadows that are done away by the ſubſtances, ſee an account of Penn by Mr. Hicks Dial. | 20. In the ſame Book pag. 47 ſome of the Papiſts were for … Kingdom of the Spirit, and … everlaſting Goſpel, as a higher … than Chriſt's Goſpel, that the … of the Father they ſaid conti… till Chriſt; the Law of the Son … their time, and then the time of … Holy Ghoſt was to come, in which Sacraments were to ceaſe, and … Adminiſtrations, and every … was to be ſaved by the inſpiration of the Holy Ghoſt, without any external Actions. |
WILL. HAYWORTH.