The Searchers for Schism Searched, Treatise · Answer 11 – Question 15
Anſwer.
1. We confeſs that we which are under laying on of hands, have received to laying on of hands, and then to Communion, ſome from you not under laying on of hands; nor did we take account of their Faith, nor baptize them again, becauſe we were ſatisfied in both, not inquiring who converted them, thinking that not material, ſo they were converted.
2. To your next demand, we ſay, They were neither Baptized by the Church, nor the World, but by Diſciples; and therefore we dare to ſeparate from you, though not from them that God owns for his Church, though they ſhould be leſs perfect.
3. To your third demand, we ſay, Men and Women may be converted and baptized, and yet they that convert and baptize them, neither the Church, nor the World.
4. Philip (Asts 8.) converted and baptized the Samaritans and the Eunuch, but Philip was neither the Church nor the World; But you will ſay, Philip was a Member and a Deacon of the true Church; 'tis true, he was: but then Apollos, who taught diligently the things of the Lord at Epheſus, and elſewhere (and its beyond a ſuppoſition to ſay, the twelve Diſciples, Acts 19. were baptized by him; but if not by him, by ſome other, whoſe attainments were no more than his) and he, if he did not baptize them, might as lawfully, as teach the things of the Lord, and by as good authority might Baptize them as they that did, if he did not; and he was neither the Church, nor a Member rightly Conſtituted; for he at that time knew only the Baptiſm o… John, Acts 18.25.
5. So the Men and Women Philip Baptized at Samaria, were not a Church complete in their conſtitution, though they had confeſſed their ſins, believed and were baptized, but were thereby made materials fit, and framed ready to be put into the Building, which the Apoſtles Peter and John were ſent by the reſt of the Apoſtles from Jeruſalem to do, who prayed and laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghoſt, Acts 8.14. then were they all Baptized by one Spirit into one Body, according to 1 Cor. 12.13. before which they were not a Church, nor Church-members according to right and true Church-conſtitution; nor were they the World, becauſe they were Believers baptized. So in like manner, the twelve Diſciples Paul found it Epheſus, Acts 19. were not a Church, becauſe they were not baptized by that one Spirit into one Body, nor were they and Apollo's the World; becauſe they were Believers baptized, they are ſaid to be Diſciples, Acts 19.1.
6. Then is there a middle-ſtate of men, that were neither the Church, nor the World, that were entruſted with the lawful & due Adminiſtrations of ſome of God's Ordinances, as Apollos, who taught and baptized; or if he did not baptize, yet ſome other did, no more authorized than he; and if one might lawfully, an hundred might by the ſame rule that were in no other capacity than he.
7. Then doth not our practice in receiving ſome that you have converted and baptized, as afore, declare we own you for Churches that are not under laying on of hands.
8. And whereas you again demand, Whether it was not agreed on at a general Meeting of Elders, That ſuch as believe and are baptized, were in the account of the Scripture to be eſtimated a Church: We ſay, we know of no general Meeting of Elders where any ſuch thing was ever agreed, though we are apt enough to believe, that at a meeting of ſome Elders there have been ſuch non-ſcriptural agreements made.
9. But ſuch agreements you ſpeak of, make work for Repentance, let them be made by whom they will; and well may it be ſaid of thoſe Elders that make ſuch agreements, as was once ſaid of the Hebrew Church, they have need that one teach them again which be the firſt Principles of the Oracles of God. Heb. 5.12.
10. And to your demand, Whether it hath not been permitted by, and practiſed among us, that thoſe which are under laying on of Hands, may and do lawfully marry with thoſe that are not under laying on of Hands? We ſay, it hath been ſo permitted and practiſed; and ſince from thence you demand, Whether this was not, and is not eſteemed by us a marrying in the Church, and in the Lord? We ſay, that it is not a marrying in the Church, though we ſay it may be a marrying in the Lord; ſince Believers baptized may be out of the World, and in the Lord, though not a right and true Church-ſtate conſtituted according to the pattern Chriſt appointed: The Samaritans that believed and were baptized, and Apollos, and thoſe twelve Diſciples mentioned afore, were in the Lord, yet not a Church, as hath been ſhewed. Thus you ſee we do not own you a Church in the Lord, therefore you may ſpare your laſt demand, (Whether it be not prodigiouſly abſurd to own you a Church in the Lord) till we do own you a Church in the Lord, and yet deny you a Church in the Lord. And whereas you ſay, you have Members fi… to make us husband & wives: Truly, not ſo fit neither, as we could and do deſire our Members would make choice of; however not ſo fit as to be Church-Members at the Lord's Table.
Queſt. 12.
If a People congregated upon profeſſion of Faith, Baptiſm, and a Holy life, be a Church of God, and God requireth no other conditions in order to the conſtituting of Churches and Church-members, as appears by the light of the former queſtions, and …our own practice and confeſſion at ſome turns. Then we demand, whether he that firſt ſeparated, and thoſe with him, did not make a ſeparation from ſuch a Church? and whether ſuch a ſeparation from the Communion of, or diſowning Communion with ſuch a Church, be not to make Diviſions and Schiſm in the Body of Christ?
Anſwer.
1. We have already ſhewed you, that ſuch a People, no otherwiſe qualified than you are, cannot be a Church rightly conſtituted; and that God doth require more conditions than you have in order to the right conſtituting of Churches, and Church-members.
2. Nor doth it appear by any light your queſtions give, that you have a true Church ſtate; for had we no other light to walk by, in finding out … right conſtituted Church, than your queſtions, we ſhould be in the dark, ſtumble, and fall, as many of late have done, the more it's to be …amented.
3. Nor doth it appear that you are a Church rightly conſtituted, never the more for what ſome back-ſliders have practiſed, and confeſſ… at ſome turns.
4. You may well call them turns, for tu… they are indeed; for had they not turned fro… the truth, as they were taught, and as they h… believed, and as the Truth is in Jeſus, th… had never ſo practiſed, and confeſſed, as y… ſay they have.
5. Then he that firſt ſeparated from you; a… thoſe with him, did not ſeparate from Church, whoſe Conſtitution is according to t… will of Chriſt.
6. And then ſeparation from you, and di… owning Communion with you, whoſe Churc… ſtate is not true, is not to make Diviſions … Schiſms in the body. For,
7. The Apoſtle Paul, after he had laid han… on the twelve he found at Epheſus, went into … Synagogue, and ſpake boldly for the ſpace of th… Months, disputing and perſwading the thi… concerning the Kingdom of God, Acts 19.8.
8. He that ſeparated from you, and th… with him (after they were under Laying o… Hands) continued diſputing and perſwadi… the things concerning the Kingdom of Go… for more than the ſpace of three months.
The Apoſtle Paul, when divers were hard… and believed not, but ſpake evil of the way bef… the multitude, departed from them, and ſepara… the Diſciples, verſ. 9.
10. So he that ſeparated from you, when …vers of you were hardened and believed not, … ſpake evil of that way before the multitude, …aying, Laying on of hands was an invention … the Devil; Such a one's hands were holy, and …ould keep their heads warm; with ſuch-like as …at) departed from you, and ſeparated the …iſciples.
Queſt. 13.
Whether or no to deny Communion, or not to re…ive ſuch ſo qualified into Communion (as aforeſaid) doth not ſavour of pride, ſingularity, and uncharitableneſs? And whether this doth not ſympathize with the ſpirit of Diotrephes, who did not …ly refuſe to receive the Brethren, but forbid thoſe …hat would? 3 John 9.
Anſwer.
1. For thoſe under laying on of hands to de…y Communion, and not to receive ſuch into Communion no otherwiſe qualified than you …re, doth not ſavour of pride, ſingularity, nor uncharitableneſs, becauſe your Church-conſtitution is not right.
2. If ſo, it hath no ſympathy with the ſpirit of Diotrephes to refuſe communion with you, nor to forbid thoſe that would: But it may be …ride, hardneſs of heart, and unbelief in you, … the cauſe you ſtoop not to Chriſt, but do …ill perſiſt in making oppoſition againſt a Principle of his Doctrine, as you have done, and now do.
Queſt. 14.
Whether all that maintain ſuch a Separ… from any Congregations that do believe in G… and are baptiſed, and walk holily, as aforeſaid … not guilty of Schiſm, and the ſin of Diotrep… aforementioned?
Anſwer.
This is much the ſame with the laſt queſt… therefore we ſhall ſay onelyonly this, That nei… all, or any which maintain a Separation from … upon the grounds we do, are guilty of Sch… or the ſin of Diotrephes; for we maintain … Separation from Churches, nor Church-Members rightly conſtituted.
Queſt. 15.
Whether we who you have ſeparated from, … denied Communion to, have not uſed all Chriſ… and candid ways of Accommodation, that can reaſonably be thought on? Have we not profeſs'd … you, That if we ſaw laying on of hands (in the … you practiſe it) a Duty, we would ſubmit to … Have we not alſo declared, That we are willing … the better finding out the Truth, that you ſha… come and preach it among us? Have we not … promiſed that we would never preach or di… againſt it, to avoid offending of you? Nay, … we not practiſed this, by ſuffering your Coun… Elders freely to preach among us, who preache… your practice, without any oppoſition from us? … further, have not many deſired to come under … … on of hands, if you would not make it the bounds … conditions of Communion, and tie them from …ning us, or having Communion with us after…rds? Whether then to refuſe Communion with … after ſuch large and loving Condeſcenſions as …ſe, be not Schiſm greatly aggravated?