Romes Ruin(1), Answer · Paragraph 13
PAR. XIII. Where the true church was when the Roman fell.
CHALLENGE.
Or if they cannot do this (as we well know they cannot) let them labour to assign us another catholike church distinct from the Roman, when she (as they falsly suppose) fell from her first truth.
Answer.
We cannot prove our true church by the false marks you have set down: neither can you prove your false church by the true marks set down by us. Eminent visibilitie, & illustrious ample unversalitie, and anti-christian combination under one head, the Pope, are no marks (as hath bin shewed) of the true church. And what then if we cannot prove our doctrin by them? Then you say, let them labour to assign us another catholike church distinct from the Roman, when she (as they falsly suppose) fell from her first truth. I have already shewed a church more ample than yours, and not only distinct from your Roman, but opposite to it as much as we in the most sundamentall poynt, to wit the papacy; yea so opposite, that the first sunday in Lent, when they solemnly curse all hereticks, as Arrius, Macedonius, Eutyches, Nestorius, Apollinaris, &c. they pronounce in like manner an Anathema to the Pope. But what an argument is this? If you cannot prove your church by the fore-named false marks, then assign us some other church distinct from the Roman, in which these marks are conspicuous? To passe by this your lame inference, and make the best of such poor stuff as you bring; out of your own words a man may pick out such an argument; either the Roman church continued still the church, or when she sell away, some other church must be assigned, which persevered in the truth, else there should be no Church in the world. If this be that you would say, the answer to this your objection is very easie on our parts; for we charge not the Latin church with defection from the true faith universally, but the chief governo…rs and leaders thereof, or (to speak more fully) that prevalent and predominant faction in the church of Rome, that hath born sway for some hundreds of years, which we say is plunged into many dangerous and pestilent errors and superstitions: yet not into all errors at one leap, but they sunk into them by degrees; when then this faction in the Roman church, which we call the papacy, or the kingdom of anti-christ, or the Mystery of iniquitie, threw it self into an open gulf of error or heresie, we say, that that part of the Roman church, and elsewhere, which both secretly and openly impugned such error and heresie, and in as much as in them lay stopt such corruptions at the entrance, were the true church: as for example; when the fore-named faction by Boniface the third, & Phocas his means, brought first into the church the Luciferian title, Plat. in Bonifac. 3.and anti-christian power of oecumenicall or universall bishop, and head of the whole church, they in the Greek and Latin church which opposed it, were the true church. When the same faction, by Irene and Pope Adrians means, decreed the worshiping of images in the second councell of Nice, those who made head against them, and opposed this idolatrous decree in the councell of Frankenford, and synod of Paris, together with Ionas bishop of Orleans, and Charles the great, and many in England who wrote against that blasphemous and idolatrizing synod, were then the true church. When by the strength of the same faction, transubstantiation first stole in secretly, and after was openly established by a decree in the councell of Laterane, Scotus Erigena, and Bertram, Elfricus, Guliel. Neubridg. lib. 2. Histor. Angl.and Berengarius, and their schollers in the Latin church, which were in number like the sand of the sea, were the true church. When Hildebrand began to restrain the clergie by a law from marrying, Nicetas the Abbat, and the bishops of Italy, France, and Germany, who withstood him, they (holding no fundamentall errors in any point of faith, for ought can be shewed) were the true church. Lastly, when the same faction prevailed so far in the councell of Constance, as to decree the mutilation of the holy sacrament, & depriving the laity of the cup, contrary to Christs institution, and the practise of the primitive church, Iohn Husse, & Ierom of Prague, and the lords of Bohemia, and the known remainder of the Waldenses, besides many millions of christians both in the Greek and Latin church, who oppugned and resisted openly or secretly that sacrilegious sanction, many of them to the effusion of their blood, were the true church; whose followers i… …h…mia and in France, and elsewhere, continued even till Lut hers time, who was expected before he came, and came not alone into the Lords battell, as your Alfonsus a Castro testifieth in these words: No… pr… diit Alfon. a Castro, epist. Nuncupat, ad Philip. 2. Hisp. Reg. edit. Paris, 1564.solus Lutherus, tanta est hujus seculi infoelicit…s, sed mult… hareticorum agmine, seu quodam satellitio stipat… processit, qui ill… expectasse videntur, ut sub illius vexille postea milit…t: illi … nomina dederunt Philipp. Melancthonus, Faber Capito, Lambertus, Conradus Pelicanus, Andreas Osiander, Martin Bucerus, alli que progessis temporis catervatim, se illius fa…iliae inseruerunt; neither came Luther out alone (such is the unhappinesse of this age) but guarded with a great troop of hereticks, who seemed to look for him, that afterwards they might fight under his banner: for presently Philip Melanc…hon, Faber Capito, Lambert, Conrade Pelica…, Andr. Osiander, Martin Bucet, gave their names unto him, and others in processe of time in great numbers inserted themselvs into his familie.