Gangrena Part 1 and 2, Part 12 · Letter 1 – Letter 3

Gangrena Part 1 and 2 · Part 12 · Letter 1 – Letter 3

p. 39SIR,

WEE cannot but acknowledge the great service you have done for the Church of God, by interposing your self against the growing Schisms and Heresies of these times: And upon conference had thereof at our weekly meetings here, we have thought it our part to contribute somewhat to your incouragement, by testifying how great acceptance your labors find among us; who give thanks to God for you and your zeal to his truth, expressed not only in your usual Sermons, but especially in your Antapology and Gangraena, by which you are well known to us all; and we earnestly desire that you will continue the same endeavors for the maintenance of the truth, and opposing of Errors. And as we are very sensible of the great discouragements you are like to meet withal, so we shall the more heartily commend you, and the successe of your labors to Gods protection and blessing, resting

Your loving Brethren and fellow-labourers in the Ministery March 19. 1645.

Unto this Letter the hands of twenty eight Ministers are Subscribed; but I forbear the Printing of them, as I do the County where they live, to avoid p. 40all danger which might come to any of them from printing their Names, if some Sectaries in the Army come that way, as they are likely to do.

Now in my Reply to particulars laid down in Cretensis, I shall apply my self chiefly to justifie and make good those Relations in Gangraena, excepted against by Cretensis, reserving other things in his Answer to my fuller Reply, which Cretensis (God willing) shall be sure of, and that to the full.

Cretens. pag. 2. labours by all his Rhetorick and many words to insinuate to the Reader, how in writing of my Book Gangraena, I have said all, and the worst I can of the Independents and Sectaries, & that whilst I charge them only with such and such crimes, I do not so much charge them with these, as acquit and discharge them from all others, and that there's no reasonable man but will abate and deduct, and that to a good proportion from such reckonings and accounts, &c. much lesse will he judge such accounts short or defective in particulars; and that Mr. Edwards hath but faintly informed the world how vile and bad the Sectaries are, but hath justified and acquitted them from all other crimes and imputations of any worse resentment or import then those wherewith he afflicted them, and consequently hath represented them to the world, as better and far more deserving, then far the greatest part of his own Presbyterian Generation.

Reply. However, Mr. Edwards, or the Printer for him, may possibly in some places of his Book print none of the truest English, yet I am sure Cretensis in this Page speaks none of the best sense nor Reason that ever I read in my life, but every line and sentence is so slight and weak, that a man may look through and through it; and the truth of it is, Cretensis all along hath a multitude of bom-basted, starched words, priding himself therein, but seldom or never in all his answers hath he any thing else; witnesse his Answers to Mr. Walker, Mr. Prynne, and this present Passage: And first for that which Cretensis speaks here, the man makes good what he saith pag. 50. that he never read one quarter of my Book, and that he took things upon trust, as observed by others; for certainly had he read my Book over, he could never have writ thus, that in charging the Sectaries with these, I acquit them from all others crimes and imputations, and that I have represented them to the world, a better and far more deserving generation, then the far greatest part of the Presbyterians.

1. Because in divers pages of Gangraena I expresly declare I have many more to lay to their charge, stiling this Book but a praeludium and preparative to what's behinde; doth a man who accuses a guilty person at first but with two or three Articles, and yet formally declares he hath many more, and upon every Article pleads his liberty and power of Additionals, justifie and acquit him from all others?

p. 412. Had Cretensis but read over my Book, and considered what Errors▪ Practises, Blasphemies I speak of, to what a nature some of them amount, and of what a kinde they are, that there can hardly be worse, he would never have said I had dealt but faintly with the Sectaries, and that the Sectaries were a better and far more deserving generation then the Presbyterians; for if the far greatest part of Presbyterians be worse (or so bad) either for Doctrines, Practises, &c. as I have proved many of the Sectaries to be, then I must professe I will disclaim, and be the first that shall c…y out of them, and will never go about to plead for them as Cretensis does for his Sectaries. But supposing I had not declared my minde in this case, yet all that Cretensis saith is in consequent without all strength of reason; for therebe and are reserves when not thought of, and wise men always in all matters of accusations and reckonings will fear there's more behinde, and suspect somthing worse, though not declared at first; and I would ask Cretensis, whether either in impeachments, or reckonings and accounts brought in to Courts of Justice against such and such men, though at first but part of the Accusation be alleaged, whether the accused can be secure, they are justified with an high hand from all other crimes and imputations of any worse resentment or import; and when one is impleaded and endicted upon the la…ter, this be a good plea in Law, to say he is free, because they were not mentioned at first; much lesse then will it hold in cases where there was a formal Declaration and caution entred, that such Articles were but a preparatory and not the whole matter.

Cretensis pag. 3. makes two Challenges, casting his Glove the first and second time to me; first as to matter of Practise, look of what crimes or miscarriages soever I have with any truth impeached the Sectaries, he will produce both as many for number, foul (yea far more foul) for nature perpetrated and done by a far lesse number of Presbyterians; yea and that he will give another manner of account of the reality and truth of what he brings upon the Stage in this kinde. Secondly, for matter of opinion, that he will discover and finde out as many Errors and Heresies, and those of every whit as dangerous an Import, to be at this day in a far lesse number of the Classique party; yea that he could make a discovery of as many Errors and Heresies in me alone; and that he doth not think the most Orthodox Presbyterian under heaven, nor Independent neither, erres much beneath the like number of Errors.

Reply. I accept these Challenges, and do take up the Glove both the first and second time, rechallenging and defying Cretensis to make them good; and by these ungodly Challenges made by him out of his great care and love of Errors, to strengthen the hands of Hereticks, least they should suffer losse, were he Iohn of Gaunt, and his Glove Iohn of Gaunts Gantlet, I p. 42would take it up, And first of all Reply to Cretensis, the man speaks he knows not what. Cretensis not having read one quarter of my Book, as himself professes, knows not what crimes or miscarriages, Heresies and Blasphemies, with the way of making them good, I charge the Sectaries with: and yet he will at random, and blindefold undertake to finde as many in a far lesse number of my Classique Proselytes and party. O what will not this man say, so it may make for the Independent party: Surely he will startle at nothing who dares speak thus: Can you produce as many Blasphemies against Christ, the Scriptures, &c. and finde as many horrid Opinions in Presbyterians as I have proved to be in Sectaries? where will you finde among the Presbyterians, such as Hich, Wrighter, Web, Clarkson, Marshal, Nichols, Den, Oats, Cretens. cum multis aliis; As for the condition Cretens. propounds, upon which he will make good his undertaking, and out at which he hopes to escape, to salve his lying, I do for my own part accept it, and am ready freely and candidly to declare my minde and judgement in all points of Religion, and shall perswade others also to do the like: But of this more in my full Reply, where I shall shew the fallacy and shift of Cretensis in this; only for the present the Reader may observe he puts in these conditions, that so he may provide a Sanctuary for all kinde of Hereticks and erroneous persons, a a place of retreat for himself one way or other to come off these Challenges, which in the plain open field he foresaw he could never do.

Cretensis page 6. among other his Artifices and devices to weaken the credit of the truth of those matters laid down in Gangraena against the Sectarian party, labors to possesse the Reader, That for saving of my own repute, and to prevent, as much as might be, the thorough examination of the greatest part of what Gangraena represents by way of disparagement to the Independent party, I printed so many Letters without the names of their Authors; and upon this Cretensis goes on vaporing and forging in his Heretical brain, certain Reasons of my concealing the names of the Authors of the Letters, and in sum, would render me to the Reader, a man to be suspected of jugling and forgery, and the Letters to be void of all truth.

Reply. As for that fallacy of Cretensis, whereby he labors to delude the Reader, infinuating that the Letters contain the greatest part of what Gangraena represents by way of disparagement to the Independent party, and those Letters being without names, the names were concealed on purpose for fear of examination of the truth of the Letters, and so the Letters containing the greatest part of disparagement against the Sectaries, the Sectaries are as it were at once cleared from what Gangraena faith against them; I say only this. That Cretensis is a man of that impudence and large conscience, that he will say any thing, so it may make for the Sectaries, and against the Presbyterians; p. 43for the Letters are not neither in number of sheets the tenth part of Gangraena, neither contain they the tenth part of the Discovery of the Errors, Heresies, Practises, &c. beside, some things in the Letters are of another nature, and to one of the Letters is annexed a Confutation of the matter contained in it, consisting of two whole leaves of those few sheets, within a few lines.

2. As for that of jugling and forgery which Cretensis would put upon me, the man measures me by himself and his party, because that he and some of his party are used to juggle and possibly forge Letters and News, invent and give our many things which never were; have with the Jesuits their piae fraudes to advance their Catholike cause, therefore he thinks so of me; but I blesse God I am a plain man, hating equivocations, mental reservations, plots, underminings of men, playing under-board, carrying things in the clouds; I count honesty the best policy, and faithful plain dealing the greatest wisdom, and the Independents will finde it so in the end, however for a while they prosper by their shufling tricks, devices, policies, as Strafford, Canterbury, and others did before them.

3. To come to the main charge of concealing the names of those who writ me Letters, and all the inferences drawn from thence: I answer, I have already given some Reasons for it, and do adde these unto them; most of the men who writ the Letters, writ them not for that end to be printed, knew not of, nor imagined no such matter, neither did I acquaint them with it, and for me without their leave obtained to print their Names to the world, I could not do it, keeping unviolated the rules of friendship, besides I well understood that were a way to cut off correspondency and Intelligence for the future, if I should print mens Names publikely to the world, writing in a private way to me: Of all the Letters written to me, there were two only which I expressed to the Authors I would print them, and acquainted them with my purpose, whose Names notwithstanding (excepting the two first Letters subscribed) I concealed with the rest for company: But now that I may overthrow Cretensis Proposition, and his Inferences, his Foundation, and his Superstructures, I shall name most of them who writ the Letters to me and others, as also from whose hands I received those Letters which were printed by me, though not written to me. The first Letter was written me from Mr. Strong, a Member of the Assembly of Divines, who after he had told me by word of mouth the contents of this Letter, promised to send it me in a Letter, and I acquainted him then what use it was for, and he said he would justifie what he writ, and named others in whose presence Master Denne maintained these Points. The second Letter was written from Master Simon Ford, to a Member of the Assembly Master Gower…s, from whose hands I p. 44received it, and told Mr. Gowers I should print it, to which he was willing, and since Gangraena was printed, the Author writes to me about his Letter, That he will enlarge and confirm the particulars in that Letter, and send it to me. The third Letter was one Master Josiab Ricrasts, who owns it, and hath been with me since Cretensis came forth, and to my knowledge is drawing up an Answer to Cretensis, for so much as concerns that Letter. The fourth Letter was written by a Weaver in Somersetshire, one Crab (if I mistake, not the name) and I received it from M. Rosewal a City Minister well known, who will own it, and make it good 'tis such a mans: And thus I have given an account of the Copies of all the whole Letters printed by me: Now for the Extract of certain Letters written to me & some other Ministers, for seven of them, which are the greatest part of those Extracted Letters, namely all those which concern Colchester and Mr. Ellis, or some others there (of which Letters Mr. Ellis himself writes thus to a friend in London; The aspersions cast on me, and some others here by Mr. Edwards, are as false as foul; which because they are a great part of his Book and strength, those who are here concerned in it, will, if God please, shortly make Reply, Cretensis p. 44.) he who writ them is not afraid of his name, neither was his name concealed for fear of an Examination of the truth of the Letters, as Cretensis by reading this Letter lately sent to me from him may understand, which I here print to a tittle.

To my Reverend and worthy Friend Mr. Thomas Edwards Minister of the Word of God.

Reverend Sir,

THere is a passage in Mr. Iohn Goodwins Book, charging you with abusing Mr. Ellis of Colchester, and the Saints in those parts, and that he will shortly make Reply to your false and foul aspersions. These are therefore to certifie you, that concerning those Letters I writ unto you from Colchester, I have them attested under the hands of many sufficient witnesses, each particular that is material being ayerred by three witnesses at least, and those of piety and judgement; which attestations I shall keep by me to produce them upon fit occasions to iustifie those Letters to the world. Yet it is possible he will Reply to those things as false and foul, or come off with distinctions and mental reservations; but these things are so evident in this Town, and much more then I writ unto you (as his Preaching for the pulling down of our Churches, and other things that I can prove) that his Pamphlet will do him p. 45no good in this place. For it will not be the first time that he hath said & unsaid the same things here, denying and dissembling his opinions for advantage, as will be testified by many witnesses, by some of the Honorable Members of the House of Commons, Ministers, and others, godly and judicious Christians: This I thought good to signifie for the present, recommending you to the grace of God, I rest

Your affectionate friend and fellow labour in the Gospel Rob. Harmar. April 1646.

Now by all this the Reader may see what to judge of Cretensis, and his false glosses and commentaries upon the Letters Printed in Gangraena; and had I Cretensis railing scoffing Rhetorick which he makes use of in this section, and in many other places of his Book, I might spin out whole leaves in aggravation and scoring up of lyes, evil surmisings, bitter words scoff, and jeers expressed by Cretensis upon occasion of the Printed Letters; but I forbear to contend with him in this kind; truth needs not such colors, though errors does to set it off. The hare relation of these things is a sufficient confutation of Cretonsis; and if the printed Letters of which Cretensis, Master Ellis, yea and Master Saltmars… make such a cry of forgerie, falsitie, dare abide the light, and their Authors are ready to justifie them, the judicious Reader by this may both judge of the truth of other things contained in Gangraena, and of the folly and vanity of the rest of Cretensis allegations against my Book.

As for the extract of four or five Letters, whose Authors names I have not yet mentioned, ther's no one particular matter of fact, or relation of stories excepted against any of them; the other Letters whose Authors I have named, are the foul offensive Letters, and therefore I shall spare their names till the truth of the facts related in them be questioned by Cretensis in a Rejoynder: only for present I assert, I have the original Letters by me under the hands of the Ministers to produce, and further I make no question, if the evils spoken against in those Letters might be remedied, and the proof censured according the nature of their offences, but the Ministers who writ them would be ready to come up and own them in the sight of the sun, and prove a great deal more then they have written. And for a conclusion of my Reply to this eight Sect. of Cretensis, had Cretensis and his followers but a little Presbyterian faith (which Sectaries so scoff at) and ingenuity, out of all the particulars which I have nakedly and clearly laid down, they would believe that all the Letters from first to last were neither forged, nor names conceal'd, for fear of the examination of the truth, nor because my name should be the greater, and rise better by being only known, but be ashamed of all that's written in this Section, especially considering Master Edwards hath brought all the names of the Writers, p. 46challenged from out of the land of darknesse, into the land of light, and given such reason (a… he hath) for the former concealing of them.

Cretensis page II. makes two challenges, casting the Glove to whosoever will take it up; and his first challenge is, that for thirty of those opinions impeached in my Catalogue of error a…d heresie (and he will not say for how many more) he will undertake to bring them off with the honor of truth. Secondly, for that error, viz. That Faith in a proper sense is imputed to Justification, and not Christs Righteousnesse; he challenges all the Presbyterians one after another, assembled, or not assembled in England, Scotland and Ireland to prove by Scriptures, or by dint of Argument either, That Faith is not imputed in a proper sense.

Reply. The man from challenging me, page third, rises in his confidence to challenge all the world (as if the man had learning and parts to deal with any man under heaven) but Cretensis needed not to have gone so far, I shall finde him near hand those who will deal with him without going into France, Scotland and Ireland; for the first of these, I take up his Glove again, and give him his liberty to name twenty and ten of those opinions, and as many more of them as he will, and do promise to enter into the Lift with him, that he shall not prove them to be truths, and I expect he should make good his challenge out of hand, at least to set out in his Rejoynder to my Reply, which of the 180. Errors he will take the Tutoridge and Patronage of; And for the second, Master Roborough (whom Cretensis scoffs at pag. 26. by the name of Servant and Clerk) takes up his Glove, and desire me in my Reply to signifie thus much unto him: For that jeer of Master Robor. holding his peace when Master Gataker hath spoken, his playing on servant and Master, Justice of Peace and Clerk, Master Robor. passeth it by as he hath much bad language from him in his Vindication of Master Walker; only he faith such gibing and jeering cost him nought; Its said it runs in the blood, that he had it by tradition, from which is seems he is not yet redeemed for all his singular profession; Master Roborough will not deal with him in that for shoebuckles, Cretensis shall have the preheminence; yet doth he modestly desire an Answer to his Animadversions on M. Goodwins Book, and is ready to make his writing good, against Cretensis and his complices in further writing, or by a dispute when and where Cretensis pleaseth. This the man professeth who is meant in that jeer, the Servant or Clerk that must hold his peace.

And as M. Roborough gave me the precedent words in writing, under his hand; so he added by word of mouth, that he challenges Cretensis to dispute this point, about Faith being imputed in a proper sense, where, when, before whom, and how he will, leaving him to nominate his own time, place, company, manner of dispute, either by writing or by word of mouth; by Scriptures p. 47or by dint of argument, in all which Cretensis having this liberty, and so the advantage of him; yet M. Roborough will meet with him and dispute it as Cretensis hath stated the question, and that before all the Independents Assembled or not Assembled; and Master Roborough much wonders Cretensis should thus vapor, and in this point challenge all the Presbyterians one after another Assembled or not Assembled in England, Scotland, France and Ireland, when as Master Roborough, who is but a Scribe of that Assembly, (of which Cretensis would fain have been a Member, & as 'tis thought by wise men, his great pride working upon discontent in m…ssing of that honor, was one of the greatest cecasions of his falling to Independency) professes that upon a conference & dispute with him, he found him weak, not able to hold his ground, and in a word, a very sorry Disputant; and Master Roborough offers in that Controversie about the Imputation of Faith to Justification, wherein Cretensis boasts he is so versed as to challenge all men, (it Cretensis dare give him a meeting) to manifest as much to all the world in the sight of the Sun; and for a conclusion of my Reply to these two Bravadoes of Cretensis, I desire the Reader to observe what an impudent Braggadocio this man is, to m…ke new challenges, when as yet he hath not yet accepted of old, but lies miserably wounded both by his own pen, and several others, not having yet answered several Books written against him, nor a Book he promised above 12 monethmonth ago to answer, and therefore my advise to Cretensis is, first to answer these following Books, viz. that of a Quaere upon the Covenant, and a Letter from I. G. to T. G. Master Roboroughs Book of Justification written against him, Master Lanes a yong Merchant against that Error of Natural men may do such things as whereunto God hath by way of promise annexed grace and acceptation, &c. Dr. Stewart against M. S. this Reply to Cretensis, and a larger Reply already in the Presse against Cretensis and my Antapologie, and after he hath answered all these from point to point, as becomes a Scholar with reason and words of sobernesse, and not with rail…gs, Scoffs, sixe footed words, then to make his new challenges, and defend 30. Errors, and as many more as he will (laid down in my Catalogue) and among others, for old acquaintance sake, that of Imputation of Faith.

Cretensis page 15. promises an Answer to the Antapologie shall be with me ere long; and that he may abuse me, he abuses the Scripture, playing upon that of Amos 5.18. resembling his Answer to my Antapologie to the day of the Lord, the judgement of the 70. yeers captivity, me to the sons of Belial; his foretelling long ago of an Answer, as to the Prophets predictions of judgement, & that the Answer to M. Edwards Antapol. will not be for his honor, &c.

Reply. Belike I shall have a terrible thundring Answer from Cretensis, when as it shall be to me as the day of the sore judgement of the 70. years captivity to the sons of Belial, who derided the predictions of the Prophets, a p. 48day of darknesse, and not of light: I know not well what the man means by this, whether he intend not (concluding by that time his Answer comes abroad to my Antapologie the Cavaliers will be quite subdued) to try by his interest if he cannot procure some part of the Army call'd by Cretensis and his Disciples, the Saints, the honest men, &c. to carry me into captivity, and to imprison me all my time in a Dungeon, where I shall not see the Son, nor be able to make no Replies, nor never write against the Sectaries any more; this I confesse were like to prove as bad to me as the 70. yeers captivity to the Jews, to be a day of darknesse indeed; but as for any paper writing, an Answer by Reasons and words to be so to me like the 70. yeers captivity and a day of darknesse, I cannot imagine: I had thought Cretensis Answers would have been rather a day of new light to the world and to me, then a day of darknesse, especially considering what Cretensis faith pag. 16. of light and truth: I am somewhat doubtful and suspitious of Cretensis threatnings, because of the ill usage of some Ministers by some Souldiers, and of many words given out daily by too many of Cretensis Saints in our Armies, against the Presbyterian Orthodox Ministers: I cannot well tell what other construction to make of Cretensis words, they are very doubtful and dangereous words; What an Answer, to be as the sore judgement of the 70. yeers captivity against the sons of Belial, and to be darknesse and not light? I have read & heard of such Answers in matters of difference between great men, who instead of an Answer in writing, or with an Answer in writing have sent an Army of ten or twenty thousand men; and I must tell the Reader what increases my fears, I cannot well tell how it first came into my head, but I have had a strong opinion this 18. moneths, and expressed it to divers, that my Antapologie would never be answered till the Independents had got that power one way or other as to cast me into prison, to seiz on all my papers and writings by which I should make good my proof, and then they would bring forth an Answer to my Antapologie: Now considering how far and how high in many things the Independents have proceeded, and Cretensis threating me with such a kind of Answer, I am apt to interpret him thus; and truly were it not that there is a Noble General, and the greatest part of the Army by farre, as I have expressed often, free from Cretens. way, and that I live in a good strong City neer the High Court of Parliament, and by the Honourable Court of Common-Counsel, I should expect and be afraid that his threating might be fulfilled before ever his Reply to Antapologia would be ready to come abroad: But whereas Cretensis saith, that he verily beleeves his Answer to my Antapologie will not be for my honour, in which respect I have no great ground to be so restlesse and importunate in calling for it: I Reply, the Antapology (I am sure) was for the honour of the cause I undertook, and p. 49turned to my honor both at home and abroad, and made not for the honor of the Apologists and Independent party; neither do I believe Cretensis Reply to my Antapology will make more for his honor, then this brief Answer of his to Gangraena: And however for the present Cretensis Reply when it comes first forth, by his railings, revilings, scoffs and lyes put upon me, may not make for my honor; yet by that time my Rejoynder can be made and printed, it shall appear to all the world, that the whole businesse, both Apologetical Narration, Antapology, Cretensis Reply, and my Rejoynder, will make for the honor of the Presbyterian cause, and of my self, as a poor Instrument pleading for it against the Zanzumins of the time, and to the dishonour both of the Apologists and their great Champion Cretensis.

Cretensis in this 15 page makes an Apology, and gives his Reasons why Mr. Edwards Antapology is not answered in so long a time as 18. Moneths, namely, That the Independents are not men who have little or nothing to do like Presbyterians, having the priviledge of ease to Preach to bare walls and pews in their meeting places, nor that shamelesnesse of forehead to make the subject matter of their Sermons little else but loose, lying, and frivolous reports and stories, or virulent invectives against the Saints as the Presbyterians; neither was the way free and open to bring light into the world, but hedged up with Clergy, Classique Councels as with thorns against them: And besides, Mr. Edwards took not much lesse then 18. Moneths time for his Antapology, and therefore no Wonder if the Independents be not men of more expedition.

Reply. Cretensis plays the Sophister here, making use of that fallacy non causa pro causa, giving the false cause of not Replying, and concealing the true; and that all these are false, is evident: 1. Because Cretensis hath had leasure to have attended the motions of my pen, and hath since the 18 moneths given an account to the world more then once, twice, thrice, and had leasure now, the priviledge of ease, to make an Answer to Gangraena, and could he not with the labour of all these have Replyed to Antapology? It should seem for all the weaknesse, contradictions, and such like, which Cretensis speaks of Antapology, 'tis a hard piece that Cretensis can write and print five several Books, have time enough from his constant and standing labors with those who have committed themselves to him in the Lord, before he finde time to Reply to Antapology: Besides, Cretensis had five great Champions the Apologists to assist him in it, some of which will be found to have or to take more priviledge of ease, and seldom Preaching then the Presbyterians use to take, and some of them have had leasure to Print other things since, wherein not so much concerned; as also Cretensis hath a priviledge of ease and idlenesse when he pleases to help himself (which none of the Presbyterians have) viz. to appoint some of his Prophets in his Church to Preach for him, which he frequently p. 50practises upon all occasions, as I can prove, and hath upon pretence of answering my Antapology. 2. Some Independents have that shamelesnesse of forehead, to make the subject matter of their Sermons little else but loose, lying, frivolous reports and stories, or virusent invectives against the Saints, &c. as Mr. Peters, the Vicar General and Metropolitane of the Independents, both in New and Old England: and I wonder how Cretensis forgot him: Name any Presbyterian, who is of any account in the Church of God, such a loose rambling Preacher as he: And for his invectives against the Saints, 'tis one of his common places in many of his Sermons to speak against the Reformed Churches, the Reverend Ass…mbly, and the godly Presbyterian Ministers of the Kingdom, who are not only Saints, but godly Ministers: But Mr. Peters is not alone, for Cretensis himself is a loose Preacher, and full of bitter invectives in his Sermons against better Sain…s and Servants of God, then ever himself, or any of his Church is like to be (the particular passages which he hath used in Sermons, I will give the Reader in my full Reply) and so Mr. Archer of Hausted is famou…, or rather infamous for this, cum multis aliis, whom in my large Reply I may adde to these: As for the third Reaso…, the way stopt against Printing for want of a Licénser, I have already refu…ed, and shall speak more to it in my next Reply: And for the fourth Reason brought by Cretensis, to Apologize for not Replying in 18 Moneths, 'tis both for matter and form all false, & a man would wonder that Cretens: should dare to write so (though indeed nothing of this kinde is a wonder in Cretensis). Cretensis, how can you answer it to God, to your Church, and to all men, to write such a manifest untruth? That I took not much lesse then eighteen Moneths in making the Antapology, when as the Apologetical Narration (I am sure of it) came forth in the MonethMonth of December, and to my best remembrance towards the later end of it, and my Antapology was printed and abroad either the last week of Iune following, or the first of Iuly, which at the farthest was not full seven Moneths, and is far from eighteen Moneths: As for that insinuation of Cretensis joyned to the eighteen Moneths, the advantage of liberty, and freedom from other ingagements which Mr. Edwards had above other men, 'tis a false one; for from that time I began to Answer Apologet. Narration, till it came forth, I never had lesse liberty or freedom in my life, nor more businesses and engagements of several sorts in reference to the Publike, Preaching in that time of writing my Book very often, three times a week constantly, and many times four, besides the tedious Journeys between London and Godalming, riding to Preach there; together with all the difficulties and fears of many Alarums from the Enemy, &c. in that time. But before I draw to a conclusion of this, I desire the Reader to observe what a proud arrogant speech this is of Cretensis to extoll himself and his party, with the p. 51contempt and scorn of the Presbyterians, If Independent Ministers had either the priviledge of ease to preach to the bare walls and pews in their meeting places: Now for this in my large Reply I will acquaint the Reader what privileges Independent Ministers and Independent Saints have and take above the Presbyterians, and what their priviledge of ease and idlenesse is above the Presbyterians, as also shew the true Reasons why the world wanders after the Beast, many of the Independents are so stockt after before Presbyterians; as also by what a sort of people, and what little cause Cretensis and his Saints have to glory and boast of it; and when I have spoken to that at large, I believe I shall be out of Cretensis debt for these words.

Only for present I shall tell Cretensis these three things. 1. That there are Presbyterian Ministers who Preach no more to bare walls and pews then Cretensis and the Independent Ministers, Mr. Marshal, Mr. Whitaker, Mr. Calamy, Mr. Sedgwick, cum multis aliis, both in City and Countrey. 2. There are many Independent Ministers who have Preached lately, and do so still as much to bare walls and pews as any Presbyterians, witnesse Mr. Burton, Mr. Davis, Mr. Freak, Mr. Ellis, Mr. Furman, &c. 3. Presbyterians do not use however Independents may (as Cretensis in his speech implyes) to have ever the more priviledge of ease by Preaching to a few rather then to many, by Preaching to a hundred two or three, or Preaching to a thousand or two, for they Preach out of Conscience and discharge of duty, to do good to the souls of men, and not for applause to please a multitude, and therefore tis all one to them whether there be fewer or more, one hundred or many; but this is expressed according to the Independent humor, who have their Sermons of several sorts, those of greater pains and study when their pews and walls are full, and their Sermons of ease when their pews are empty, and their walls bare. Now to put a period to this fourteen Section, with an Animadversion upon that passage of Cretensis in pag. 16. his constant and standing labors with those who have committed themselves to him in the Lord. I ask of Cretensis where he findes this used of a people to commit themselves unto the Ministers; we are commanded to commit our way to the Lord, and to commit our souls to him, and of God 'tis oft used; but in what place is it of people to Ministers, and then those who have committed themselves to you; why did you not say to the Church rather? what is Cretensis become the Church? And lastly, why was it not as well expressed, Those to whom I have committed my self unto in the Lord? for I believe upon better consideration, it will be found, that Cretensis hath as much committed himself to his people, as they to him; for they Preach and rule as well as Cretensis; and believe upon Examination (the Church will be found to Preach oftner then Cretensis, for all his constant and standing labors) and his yong Prophets to exercise upon the p. 52week and Lords day, and he bound to hear and obey them as well as they him: And now if How the Cobler were alive again, Cretensis and he would have no more Disputation and difference about humane learning necessary to the Interpreting of Scriptures, and Preaching of the Word, seeing Cretensis allows it now in his Church Members far inferior to How, and Cretensis would crave pardon of him for abusing him, so as he did upon that Controversie; and for a recompence unto him, Mr. How should be preferred to be Teacher in Cretensis Church; Mr. Cretensis the Pastor, and Mr. How the Teacher; for belike humane learning is not now necessary to the Preaching of the Word; and sure we shall one day have a Book of Cretensis Retractations and Confessions, and might have had it before this time, but that Cretensis knows not how his minde may change again, and what New Light he may yet have; and so he will stay till he dyes, that we may have it altogether, and without any more change.

Cretensis Sect: 15. pag. 17.18, 19. with a great many of flourishing words and a bold face, labors to possesse the Reader, That in my Antapology and Gangraena I have done nothing else almost but labored with might and main to call for fire from Hell to destroy the Saints, to inflame the powers of this world with hatred and bloodinesse of spirit against the Sons and Daughters of God, and to importure the Civil Magistrate to pour out themselves in wrath and indignation against them, charging me with a bloody Negotiation in writing Gangraena, inveteracenesse and Dragon-likenesse of spirit, and how diametrally opposite in the cause and courses I take against Sectaries, I am to Christ, Paul, Austin, Calvin and Luther.

Reply. Cretensis goes upon a false foundation, supposing all those to be Saints, the Sons and Daughters of God, whom I speak against in Gangraena, which is stark false, and of which I shall give in my large Reply a satisfactory account to the world of that mistake; for however they are Cretensis Saints, they are none of Gods Saints, and the man erres, not knowing the Scriptures; they may well go for Saints in Cretensis Kalender, but never in my Creed, neither go they for Saints in Mr. Thomas Goodwins late **Mr. Thomas Goodwins Sermon call'd The great Interest of State and Kingdom, p. 53. If any man think I am a pleading for a Liberty of all Opinions, of what nature, and how grosse soever, I humbly desire them to remember that I only plead for Saints; and I answer plainly, The Saints need it not. The Apostle tells us there are damnable. Heresies, so 2 Pet. 1.1, 2 and they will soon unsaint them. So that I speaking against the g…ossest Errors, and men holding such, in M. Tho: Goodwins judgement I speak against those who are no Saints, but are persons contradistinguished and opposed to Saints.2 Pet 1:12 Pet 1:2Sermon before the House of Commons, but are there blotted out by him.

2. What ever I speak in both my Books upon this point to the Civil Magistrate, is no other but what the Scripture clearly holds out; and though I have done it with affection and zeal, yet not p. 53with bitternesse nor bloodinesse, and I am confident that Cretensis nor all his compeers cannot in all their r…ading shew me two Books of any Divine who proves so much, and so foul things as I do in my Antapology and Gangraena, written with more moderation, fairnesse, and with lesse bitternesse; and …et Cretensis in his … Book instance in any bloody bitter passages, alwayes provided, he wrest not words nor leave out no part of sentences.

3. The Sectaries themselves and Cretensis too will one day confesse Master Edwards in opposing Errors, Heresies, discoveri…g them, and stirring up the Mag…strates to their duty, was their good Friend, a merciful man, one who both with fear and compassion would have saved them out of the fire; and I would ask Cretensis, whether are they more merciful, tender, that will not let little Children, sick persons, mad men do what they will, go where they please, eat what they list; or they who use all good means to hinder them, and provide wholsome food and medicines for them; yea, I am of the minde, before a yeer comes about the Magistrates and Kingdom will say Master Edwards, and those men who either by Writing or Preaching spoke most against the Errors, Heresies, Schisms of the times, and Toleration, and stirred us up to hinder and suppresse their growth, were most merciful both to the souls and bodies of men, and to the Kindoms, and far from bloodinesse, bitternesse, or inveteratenesse.

4. Whosoever doth but well read the Scriptures, and observe what quick sharp passages are there recorded to have come from the mouth of Christ and his Apostles against Errors, Heresies, and false Teachers, yea, sharper and more spoken against false Doctrines and false Teachers, then against bad manners, (as for instance, Matthew 7.15. Galatians 1.8, 9. and 5.10, 12.2 Peter 2.1, 2, 3.2 Iohn 9.10, 11. the whole Epistle of Iude, Revelation 2.14, 15, 20, 22, 23. with a hundred other such) will never blame me for bitternesse, bloodinesse, inveteratenesse, &c. furiousnesse and over eagernesse in my opposing Errors and false Teachers, who according to my poor measure have endeavoured in opposing Errors, to follow the Example of Christ and his Apostles, though I have fallen far short of my duty in this kinde, not improving my time and …alents, but wanting in that Zeal, Courage, Diligence, requisite to this work: (And however Cretensis and his Compeers think I have over-done) yet I have great cause to be deeply humbled for doing no more, and to hie me into my Study, and cry, misirere mei Domine: But to draw to a conclusion, I shall in▪ this case Answer Cretensis and all the Sectaries who accuse me, and cry out of my eagernesse and overdoing, as Luther did Erasmus, charging him for too much vehemency. p. 54But that I have dealt in this cause more vehemently I confesse it a fault, Quod autem vehementius egovi…, agnos… culpum, … culpa est, … testimonium hoc mihi in mundo reddi in causa Dei mirifice gaudeo: Atque utinam & ipse Deus id testimo…ie in novis…ime die confirmares…? Q…is tum beatior Luthero, qui tanti sui saeculi testimonio commendatur, quod veritatis causam, non seguiter neo fraudulenter sed vehementer satis vel potius nimio egerit? tum ill Iud Ieremiae feleciter evaserim, maledictus qui facit opus Dei negligenter. Luthenus de servo Arbitrio.if it be a fault; yea I do wonderfully rejoyce this testimony to be given to me in the world in the cause of God: And O that God himself would confirm this testimony in the last day, who then should be happier then Luther, who is commended by such a testimony of the age he lived in, that he did not handle the cause of truth slothfully and deceitfully, but vehemently enough, or rather too much? Then should I happily escape that of Jerem. Cursed be he that doth the work, &c.

5. The bitternes, bloodines, &c. with which Cretens. labours to load me, will be found in Cretensis and the Sectaries, and as they grow in power and number, will be discovered every day more and more; can any man think that Cretensis who hath so much rage and malice in his heart, and so much gall in his pen, (as he discovers in this Book against all Presbyterians) would not if he had power do as much with his hand…, and be another Bonner, or another Iohn of Leyden? God keep the Presbyterians out of the hands of the Independents and Sectaries when they come to have power, and think they are strong enough to Master them; doth not Cretensis discover his bloody mindednesse against me in the three last lines, of this 15. Section, inviting as it were some of his Sectaries to fall upon me, preaching that doctrine to them. That whatsoever I shall suffer by any Sectary for writing against them, I shall suffer but as a Malefactor and an evil doer; Now for proof of the bloody mindednesse, persecution and liberty of Conscience which the Sectaries will give the Orthodox, when they come to be stronger, and of all the means they use, and wayes they take to give the Presbytery liberty of Conscience, I shall in my full Reply to Cretensis, speak at large: only for present thus much, they labour to get all the power of Arms they possibly can into their hands, and the command of all the great Towns and Ci…ies, and by one way or other to turn out of place, keep out, obstruct, blast all cordial zealous Presbyterians, all which, no doubt, are done to give the Presbyterians liberty of conscience, and now they give the Presbyterians good words viz. that they will send them packing to Rome, that it were a good deed they were hanged, and knocked on the head, their guts goared out, that they are Antichristian Priests, cursed Priests, damned Priests, with such like; all which no doubt, are forerunners of the liberty of Conscience the Sectaries intend for the Presbyterians; and for the proof I will give Cretensis a few instances. The first is p. 55from Lynne, (a place well known to Cretensis) concerning one Iohnson a Sectary and a Cannoneer, who discoursing concerning Presbyterians and Independents, said that Presbyterians would have their guts goared out; and being answered that the Presbyterial government was ordered by both Houses of Parliament, and that he being in the service ought not to speak against them,This sent up to a Parliament man, and a true Copy of this given me by a Member of the Assembly. he answered for all that, they should have their guts goared out: Now this and more will be averred upon o…th, and is subscribed by four hands, Iohn Feek, Robert Cut…ord, Thomas Edis, Richard Robinson. March 7. 1645. Th… s…cond is of my self …old … me both by a godly Minister, and by a Gentleman of worth and honesty, who were ear witnesses; namely, that that it was pity I was not hanged for an example for making my last Book, and that it were a good deed I were knockt on the head. A third is of another Minister, a Presbyterian, an active man, some Independents in the hearing of … minister (who relates it) said they hoped ere long to see him in Lollards Tower…: The last I shall instance is a passage ou… of a Letter sent from Dover subscribed by five hands, concerning an Independent there, one Master Mascal, that in his expounding the Scriptures, with much vehemency cries out to the people against our present Ministery, Your Priests, your damned Priests, your cursed Priests &c. Now Cretensis I challenge you in all my bloody negotiations against the Sectaries (as you phrase it) to show in any of my Books any such passage against the Sectaries as these are,This Letter was written to a Member of the Assembly, and the whole Letter printed verbatim follows afterwards. or any so bit…ter as I can produce out of yours and other of your Saints Books, as Arraignment of Persecution, &c.

Cretensis in Sect. 18. and 19. layes down four things, 1. That in the 70. Error of this Catalouge I intended to arraign his opinion concerning the imputation of Faith, and non-imputation of Christs righteousnesse in Iustification. 2. That I do falsly and forgingly represent the opinion by fathering that mangrel expression foreign credere upon it, and which is no where used by him throughout the Controversie. 3. That I charge him to quote Calvin, Bu…er, & affirm others for his opinion in the point of Iustification, whom yet I affirm to be professedly of another judgement in the Doctrine of Iustification, which he declares to be false, and then quotes some places out of Calvin, Bucer, for the justifying of himself, and disproving my former Allegation. 4. He recriminates, asperses, and jeers at me, that in my going about to rectifie the mistakes of others, and being the great Aristarchus of the Errors, and Heresies of the times, have my self vented Atheological and putid assertions in the point of Iustification, as in Gangraena page. 22. in the margin, and that if Calvin p. 56and Bucer be not for him, but I shall stand still to deny it, he must professe ingenuously that he knows no reason but to judge me uncapable of the English sense of a Latin sentence; and that if I deny Calvin, Bucer, and others whom he quotes to be of the same judgement with him in the point of Iustification, then I either shew my self to be a very illiterate man, and not able to construe a peece of plain Latin, or else charge Calvin, Bucer, and the rest, with being of a judgement as contrary to themselves as to him, and then quoting Calvin, speaks to me, If I can construe Latin, to confesse in English whether Calvin be of a differing judgement from him in the point of Iustification.

Reply. 'Tis a sign Cretentis hath a quilty conscience, that upon the naming of an Error about Iustification, without the least reflecting upon him in any kind, he should take it so to himself, as to say I meant him particularly; there are divers other Sectaries besides Cretensis who hold this Error, whom I might aime at, and did intend as well as Master Goodwin. Secondly I have neither falsly nor forgingly represented the opinion in using that expression of foreign credere, though I should grant that to be true, (which yet I do not) that Cretensis hath never in Sermons, Disputations nor Books written by him expressed himself after this manner. 1. Because there being other Sectaries besides Cretensis holding the same opinion, if they have used Tò credere in Discourses, and defended it, that's enough to justifie me. 2 In Cretensis Books of justification, 'tis more then once affirmed in terminis that Faith in a proper sense, is imputed to justification, and not Christs righteousnesse imputed, and now indeed he sayes and unsaies, shuffles and cuts, seems to say the same with other Divines, and then presently the con…rary, I shall show (God willing) at large in my full Reply. 3. Tò credere used by me in setting down this Error, cannot be justly termed a representing the opinion falsely and forgingly, it being used commonly by all Divines that handle this opinion, both by the Orthodox who writ against it, and those who are for it: Arminius holding this opinion, used this expression as learned Gomaras in a Conference held with **Praefat. ad Eccl. auie Acta Synod… National, Dordr.Arminius, proved from Arminius own hand writing, wherein he maintained that in mans justification before God, the righteousnesse of Christ not to be imputed to justification, but faith is self, or Tò credere by the gracious acceptance of God to be that righteousnesse of ours by which we are justified before God; yea, and **Wotton de Reconcil. par 2. lib. 1 cap. 15. pag, 175.176.Mr. Wotton himself Cretensis Master speaks so, but when we say faith justifies, we understand ipsum credere, foreign; 3. For that charge against Cretensis of quoting Calvin, Bucer, and and others for him, when they are known ex professo to be of another judgement, …tis most true and just, and a man would wonder at the p. 57impudency of Cretensis to deny it, and to quote Calvin and Bucer again as he does; and before I have done with Cretensis it shall appear that I will make good the charge against him, and yet neither show my self a very illiterate man, not able to construe a peece of plain Latin, nor yet charge Calvin, Luther, and the rest with being of a judgement contrary to themselves, but discover him to be an impudent caviller and falsifier of Authors. As for those very places quoted by him out of Calvin, they prove not the thing he quotes them for, and therefore did wisely forbear to english them: He wretchedly and miserably wrests them, as that on Galath. 3.6. where Calvin both in the words going before the words quoted by Cretensis, and afterwards at large, showes he takes faith not in a proper sense, but in a Relative, respecting the object; and to satisfie the Reader, I will quote Calvins words upon that place next immediatly following the sentence quoted by him out of Calvin. Ergo justificari fide dicimur, non quia fides habitum aut qualitatem in nos transfundat: sed quia deo accepti sumus. Cur autem fidei tribuitur tantus honor, ut … causa justitiae nostrae; primo sciendum est esse causam instrumentalo… dunta…at; nam propr…e loquendo, justitia nostra nihil a liud est quam grat…it… Dei acceptio, in qua sundata est nostra salus: sed quia Dominus testimonium amoris nobis amoris sui & gratiae per Evangelium reddendo, illam quam dixi justitiam nobis communicat: ideo fide illam percipimus. Ergo quam fidei tribuimus hominis justificationem non de causa principali disputamus; sed tantum notamus modum quo perveniunt homines ad veram justitiam. Justitia enim haec merum est Dei donum, non qualitas quae in hominibus haereat, sed fide tantum possidetur, neque id merito fidei ut sit quasi debita merces: sed quia fide recipimus quod Deus ultro donat. I forbear to English this pass…ge leaving it to Cretensis, to have a proof of him whether he will not be as false in his translations as in his quotations; So those words of Calvin on Rom. 4 3. v. 6 make nothing at all to prove the Imputation of Faith and the non-Imputation of Christs righteousnesse, but even upon those verses Calvin expresses several passages to the contrary, as they who turn to the places may see: And for Bucer Mr. Wotton himself acknowledges he was of another judgement, speaking thus of him, whom I perswade my self to have been the Author of this opinion of Imputation; besides Reformed Divines generally,Wotton… de Reco…e part. 2. l. 1. cap. 14. Quem ego de imputatione opinionis authorem fuisse mihi perswadeo. not only two or three, but all are against this opinion of the Imputation of faith, and non-Imputation of Christs righteousnesse, and for proof of this the Reader may peruse Mr. Roboroughs examination of Cretensis Treatise of Justification, first part page 9, 10. where he showes that all our Divines are against Faith in a proper sense, Luther, Calvin, Bucer, Pareus, Ursinus, p. 58Musculus, &c. (however Arminius and Bertius were for it) unto which Cretensis never to this day made any Reply (though he vapors and brag… thus of his opinion of Imputation of Faith) So also the Preface to the Churches, set before the Acts of the Synod of Dor… showes the same by Gomarus particularly instancing in, and convincing Arminius of his Hetorodoxnes from holding of this opinion, that in justification the righteousnesse of Christ was not imputed, but beleeving: And now considering all this, and much more that hath been said and written to Cretensis, I cannot but wonder he should be such an impudent Cretensis as to bring these places out of Calvin, Bucer, Pareus, and can give no other reason of it, but that of Paul to Titus concerning Hereticks, that the man sins in this, being condemned of himself; and for this Error, and many more which Cretensis holds (notwithstanding all his palliating and daubing) I hold them so great, and the differences in opinions between him and I to be of such moment, that as Gomarus told Arminius, he durst not appear before the judgement seat of Christ with his opinions, so neither would I with Cretensis opinions, nor his wayes of managing them for a thousand worlds: As for Cretensis charging me with venting Errors in the point of justification, whilst I was reckoning up the Errors of others, I Reply, Cretensis takes advantage from a word or two left out by the Printer in the margin of my Book, which was not the fault of my Copy, as I am ready to satisfie any man, and to make it appear undeniable, besides in the second impression of my Book (which came forth full fourteen dayes before Cretensis Answer) the mistake was amended; however the sense of the word before it was amended easily shewed where the fault was, though Cretensis aggravate it so high, as to make it amount to Atheological and putid assertions. But in one word to stop the mouth of Cretensis, what I say of Justification in the margin of page 22. tis verbatim to a tittle in the new Annotations on the Bible, made by the joynt labours of certain learned Divines appointed thereunto by Authority, and whatever in the first impressiō was mistaken in that particular by the fault of the Printer, was in the second long before Cretensis Animadversions amended by me, so that the Reader may observe that Cretensis for want of matter findes fault where the fault is confessed to his hand; and had I any hope Cretensis could understand Latin when it makes against his opinion of the imputation of faith, and would be convinced, I would turn him over to divers learned men to English their Latine sentences, as Peter Martyr, Lubbertus, Sibrandus &c. where the man should read other manner of evidence against non-imputation of faith, and for imputation of Christs righteousnesse, then ever he yet offered in all his sermons and discourses about justification; but for a conclusion, Cretensis answer me one question, why did you not as well except against p. 59some other opinions named in my Catalogue, viz. 84.85. as this 70. of faith in a proper sense imputed to justification; you were as much named and particularized in them as in this, and they call you Father as well as this; but I suppose the reason, you were not yet willing in publique to own those Children, and so would take no notice of them, though I doubt not those and other things laid down in my Book (though without your name written upon them) enraged you, and have made you as a Bear robbed of her whelps, to think that I should know so much by you.

Cretensis, p. 27. Sect. 22. labours to clear himself from a passage I charged him with, that he should utter in a Sermon against the Parliament and their power, &c. saying, It was nothing else but a manifest and clear truth, and that which had passed the trial of Presbyterian fire it self, & was come forth in ful weight without suffering the le…st damage or detriment by it, and if any such gap was opened by it to slight their Authority and power, he knowes no wilde Beasts have broke in at it, but some Presbyterians; and then goeth on according to his Dialect to inveigh against me for …lling at the root of Parliamentary Authority and power, because that I finde fault with his truth (as he cals it) viz. his speaking so disgracefully and contemptibly of the Parliament.

Reply. O the impudence and incorrigiblenesse of Cretensis, after so high an offence committed by him against Parliamentary Authority, complained of to a Committee of Parliament, upon the debate of it judged by some of the Committee to be an offence of that high nature, that these words were expressed of him, & of his offence, that he as much or rather more deserved to be hang'd then the Arch-Bishop, yea the whole Committee judged it of such a nature and crime, as too great for them to censure, so that it was ordered to be reported by the Chair-man to the House it self, and Master White told me more then once, he was by order of the Committee to report it (though by many great businesses of the Kingdom he was hindred) now I say that after all this Cretensis should in the sight of the sun justifie it for a manifest and clear truth, and flye out upon me and my Abbettors for finding fault with him, is a strange hight; certainly Cretensis, if what you had said had been such a manifest and clear truth, tis wonder such words should be spoken in the Committee of it, and the thing ordered to be reported to the House it self, as to high for a Committee; and that your words spoken against the Parliament were not a manifest truth; I refer the Reader to such a Book of Mr.**Master Pryns Truth Triumphing over Falshood, Epistle Dedicat. and in the Book 106 107 108 where Mr. Pri… both laies down his passages against the Parliament, and confutes fully his justification and pleading for them. Pryns, to your own confession in your Answer to him, and to the Record kept by the Cōmittee for Plundred Ministers.

As for the reason you intimate why that which was uttered by you, was nothing els but manifest & p. 60clear truth, because it hath pass…d the trial of Presbyterian fire it self, & is come forth in full waight, without suffering the least dammage or detriment of it, that is, upon complaint and examination of it by a Committee of Parliament you are come off, and not censured. I Reply, the Reader may observe that Presbyterian fire is a cooler, softer, gentler fire then the Independent fire; and that the presbyterians are not so … crying for fire from hell to destroy all those who receive the Lord Christ, only because their faces are not instanly set to receive the Traditions of their Discipline and Doctrine; for Cretensis hath passed the trial of Presbyterian fire it self, and is come forth in full waight without suffering the least damage or detriment by it: I beleive if either I, or any known cordial Presbyterian in England in speaking against the Independent party, had said so much to the vilifying and contempt of the Parliament as Cretensis did, in speaking against Presbyterians, and we had come to the trial of Independent fire it self, we should never have come forth in full waight without suffering the least damage or detriment by it, but we should have carried to our graves the scorching and skars of that fire, if not wholy consumed by it. … Though you were one of the first; yet you are not alone, nor the last of those who by writing or speaking having uttered things against the Parliament, and being questioned by Committees have passed the trial of Presbyterian fire, and come off too, witnesse your brother Lilburn, and yet all they have said and written, have not been manifest and clear truths: You who are Independents and Sectaries have priviledges in many things which poor Presbyterians have not; you have a priviledge to steal horses, Cretensis pag. 34 whereas 'tis a great fault in Presbyterians to look over the hedge; you have a priviledge to set up Churches and a Government of your own without leave, or waiting on the Parliament; but 'tis a great offence in the Presbyterians to Petition the Parliament in all humility to settle the Presbyterian Government, witnesse those many reproches in some printed news Books (those pensioners of the Independent party) as also the bitter preaching against their Petitions by some Independent Ministers, with the hard speeches cast out against them by the Independent party, You belike have a priviledge to preach, print, speak any thing against Parliament, their Ordinances, Orders, Covenant, Members: yea to act against their Votes, Ordinances, and to passe the trial of Presbyterian fire (as you terme it) and to come forth in full waight without suffering the least damage or detriment, whereas I am perswaded a great deal lesse preached or printed by Presbyterians, would have been censured to be burnt by the hand of the common Hangman, and the men themselves in danger of hanging.

Thirdly; Cretensis, you have no such reason to bo…st so of what you have p. 61preach'd, that tis a manifest and clear truth and hath passed the Presbyterian fire it self, and is come forth in full waight, &c. till you know what the sense of the House of Commons will be upon it; when 'tis reported to the House according to the order of the Committee, and the House hath cleared you, then you might better have used these words; but Cretensis, though you say the bitternesse of death is past, all danger is over, you may be deceived, quod desertur non aufertur, the House may be at more leasure and call upon such kinde of things, and upon a review you may be made to know what 'tis, not only to slight and vilifie a Parliament, open a gap to a total contempt of all their Authority and power, but when you have done so, then openly and publikely to justifie that what you have said is a manifest and clear truth. Cretensis I tell you plainly, I would not for all the Books in my study, the Independens could prove such words spoken by me against the power and dignity of Parliament, how light account soever you make of them.

Fourthly, the Reader may by this clearly see what to judge of Cretensis charging me and my Book with lying forgery &c. when as he is not ashamed to tax me in this place, that I could not lightly have uttered any thing that struck more dangerously at the very root of all Parliamentary Authority and power, then to say that Cretensis in speaking against the Parliament and their power, opened a gap to sl…ghting of their authority and power; what a strange art and faculty hath Cretensis as of making all Authors for him, though they writ against him; so of making master Edwards, and his Abettors in pleading for the Parliament against Cretensis, to strike dangerously at the very root of all Parliamentary Authority and power? and that notwithstanding for the words Cretensis spake against the Parliament he was complained of to the Committee of Plundered Ministers by understanding men and cordial to the Parliament, and the matter so deeply resented by the Honourable Committee, as I have already expressed; but the truth of it is, Cretensis in all his writings, both in point of opinions, and words that he utters in defence of them, he will say any thing as manifestly contrary to truth, as to affirm black is white, and darknesse light; neither will he be beaten out of it by any reason, but hides himself, and clouds things in a multitude of words, where an ordinary Reader loses himself as in a wood.

Fifthly, 'tis strange Cretensis, you dare say that you know none but Presbyterians have broken in at the gap you have made, do you not know what Lilburn hath done? besides have you not read Englands Birthright, The Ordinance for Tythes Dismounted? cum multis aliis? you indeed lead the way, and was the first of all the pretended friends to the Parliament, out of discontent in missing a place in the Assembly) who spake so slightly and scornfully of the p. 62Parliament; but many have followed you and broken in at it, both in Sermons, Discourses, printed Books, especially when any thing the Parliament was about displeased them: but as for the Presbyterians respects, duty, patient waiting on the Parliament, as 'tis already evident to many; so I doubt not, but in due time it will be manifested to all the world to their Honour, and the shame of the Independent party; and I challenge you to instance in any one Presbyterian, who hath either abused the whole Parliament, or singled out many particular Members by name, as many of your Sectaries have done; but of the difference in the carriage and behaviour of the Presbyterians to the Parliament, and of the Sectaries to the Parliament, I have at large satisfied the Reader in Gangraena, page 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61. all which Cretensis takes no notice of, not giving the least answer unto it, and therefore Cretensis before you vapour any more in this kinde, remember in your rejoynder, to answer all I have said against your party, in those pages now mentioned.

Cretensis Sect. 23. makes a great deal of do, spending many leaves in excusing himself, and some of his Church for bowling on a day of publike thanksgiving, telling the Reader it was in the evening, and in the company of Presbyterians, and but for about half an hour; and he relates a story of four Presbyterians spending an afternoon upon a day of Thanksgiving in fishing; and threatens that if I go on in telling tales of Independents, he or some others will tell stories of Presbyterian mistakes in the night, and of a Presbyterian Angel, who hath committed some foul offence, yea and that he hath a Manuscript by him concerning Master Edwards himself, which discovereth his jugling, and indirect walking between the two Towns of Godalming in Surry, and Dunmow in Essex; and that if there be no remedy, it will be content to submit it self to the Presse, and therefore concludes if I go on to lay open the Sectaries; I have devoted the names and reputation of all Presbyterians who are obnoxius to the universal abhorring both of the present and future ages, and therefore saith it concerns all Presbyterians in general, and the Doctorage of this way more particularly to heal the Gangren of my pen, and to restrain the further spreading of it, otherwise their names and reputations are but so many dead corpses.

Reply. I shall reserve many things I could answer to this Section, till my full Reply, and for present say these few things; First, Cretensis after two whole leaves spent, and a mountain of words cast up, confesses in the close the thing I charged him with, that he played at bowls on a day of publique Thanksgiving, only he minces, extenuates, hides his sin all he may, speaking of it very tenderly, stirring himself a little by casting a Bowl, betaking himself p. 63for about half an hour to the exercise; the sun being by that time either down, or very neer it. Now these words of Cretensis, b…ings to my mind that answer of Aaron to Moses about the golden Calf; then I cast the gold into the fire, and there came out this calf; as if the Calf made it self, and came out without hands: So Cretensis cast a Bowl &c. How much mo…e becomming a Christian, and a Minister of the Gospel had it been, for Master Goodwin to have given glory to God, and to have said as Iob, If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosome; but as Cretensis throughout his whole discourse, hath twenty & ten fetches about, to palliat, excuse, slite, make a mock of all the horrid Heresies, Blasphemies, and Practises of all the Sectaries spoken of by me, so doth he the same here of himself and some of his Church. Now that the Reader may be undeceived, though the first relation of this busines was told me accidentally as it was to another, without inquiry or thought on my part (though then so spoken, as by circumstances I concluded it to be true;) yet since Cretensis Answer came for…h I have enquired more particularly into it, and I have it upon good ground to be after this manner; Cretensis preached in the morning, but in the afternoon was at no Sermon, not joyning himself to spend the latter part of the day with any of the society of Gods people in Thanksgiving for so great a victory; but in the afternoon went a walking with some of his Church, and after that to Bowls, and instead of Cretensis about half an hour, that he stirred himself a little by casting a Bowl; he played at Bowls about two hours; and give over at such time, (which therefore is not probable to be when the sun was gon down,) that another company came and played after them. Now I could animadvert divers things upon this relation of Cretensis, aswell as Cretensis hath pag. 32, 33, 34, 35. viz 1. that we may see Independents have a priviledge of ease, yea, and of prophanesse too, to sit idle at home, or walk abroad to take their pleasure, when the poor Presbyterians are either preaching or praying, or else joyning themselves to the Assemblies, where preaching, prayer and other holy worships are performing; and if Cretensis will pretend he was a weary of his preaching in the forenoon, and so somewhat indisposed to further labour that day; I answer, this is just Bishoplike, who when their Lordships had preached in a forenoon, they were so weary they could not so much as come to Church that afternoon; but Cretensis, though you were so weary as you could not preach, could you not have come, and given thanks for the Victory; nay, if that had been too much trouble for your Lordship, because of your great wearinesse and indisposedness after your great labors, to have gone abroad to some of the Presbyterians Churches; could you not have gathered your Church together in your house, appointed some of your Prophets to have exercised, and you only have sate by as at other times, resting your weary p. 64bones. Truly Cretensis in my minde this is a very poor put off, and sorry shift.

2. Cretensis for all his wearinesse and indisposednesse to further labour of preaching, or hearing that day, yet was so eager upon his sports that he knew not how the time went away making a long half hour, reckoning half an hour for two hours▪ but Cretensis might easily mistake in this, and I shall excuse him, it being usual for men in their sports to think time short, and to judge they have not been an hour when they have been playing two or three; but I will spare Cretensis and animadvert no farther for present, neither on the story nor on his Animadversions upon it.

Secondly, as for that Cretensis brings by way of excuse, some Presbyterians played with him, &c. I Answer, it was their fault and sin, neither will I go about to plead for Baal, nor palliate excuse things that are evil in Presbyterians, as Cretensis doth all kind of horrid Blasphemies and Heresies in his Sectaries: however Cretensis is never the lesse in fault because of company; and indeed Cretensis being a Minister, should have given them (being private Christians) better example, besides who knows but Cretensis example drew these Presbyterians to it, and further 'tis likely these Presbyterians had been in the afternoon at some Presbyterian Church, offered up to God both a morning and evening sacrifice of thanksgiving, came from home later then Cretensis and his Brethren, neither doth Cretensis say the Presbyterians came forth with him, but as he tels his own tale, he relates that after his walking about a quarter of a mile (which might be a mile, as well as his half hours bowling two hours) and after his coming into the Garden, and sitting about half an hour in an Arbour (which we may well reckon for an hour to) came in some of Master Edwards judgement of Church-Government; all which being considered, makes the matter not so bad in the Prebyterians as in Cretensis, but supposing all this, yet I will not excuse them.

Thirdly, as for that story of one of the Assembly with three more of his com—or sub▪ Presbyters, rather four Ministers in all (expressed by Cretensis all a long in a scoffing, yea in a prophane manner; bringing in heaven and Gods providence to make up his jefts and jeers) spending a whole afternoon upon a day of Thanksgiving in fishing. I greatly blame them, and if there was any such thing, they have cause to be ashamed of it as well as you for your bowling; and it had been fitter for them four Ministers to have been fishing for the souls of men, preaching somewhere in the afternoon, then a catching of Roaches; and thus you see Cretensis I am impartial, not (like the Independents) excusing all things in Presbyterians as they in Sectaries though never so vilde, and therefore your Proverb of Presbyterians having a priviledge to steal Horses holds not as you see, for I am against a Toleration of them to look on.

p. 65Fourthly, As for your threats of discovering Presbyterian mistakes in the night, and to leave the world to judge whether they be not worse then Independents bowling on dayes, &c. and of the story of a Presbyterian Angel which you will clap to my mouth, and stop it for ever: I answer, do your worst, discover what Presbyterian mistakes in the night you can, and tell what stories you please of a Presbyterian Angel, I fear you not, it will not stop my month: I blesse God, he who keepeth the feet of his Saints, hath so preserved me, that I care not what all the Sectaries under Heaven can say against me, I blesse God, I have whereof to rejoyce and glory before men (though before God I know my manifold weaknesses and transgressions, and have nothing to glory in but the free mercy of God, and the righteousnesse of Jesus Christ) and therefore Cretensis i… you mean me, by mistakes in the night, and by Presbyterian Angel (as your words seem to infinuate, speaking unto me, and the Reader may be apt to take your meaning so) speak out, do your worst, I defie you and all your company to prove any such things, or but the suspition of them; for I must tell you Cretensis, I have ever since I came to be a Preacher of the Gospel walked by that rule of the Apostle, Providing honest things, not only in sight of the Lord, but in the sight of men: And as for other Presbyterian Ministers, if any of them have walked loosely and scandalously, let them look to it, I will be no Patron for them, neither will I have my mouth stopped from opening the Errors, Heresies, Practises of the Sectaries, or laying open by name Impostors and Seducers, to gratifie the concealment of somthing soul in a Presbyterian, let them bear the shame of it for all me, and give God glory in confessing; only I would desire Cretensis and the Reader to observe the difference between my Discourse of Errors, Heresies, and Practises in Sectaries, and Cretensis discovery threatned.

1. Cretensis Discovery will be out of revenge, malice, because the Errors of the Sectaries are laid open, and which otherwise he implies should not have been discovered, and if I would cease laying open the Errors of the times, those stories should never have come to light; but now my Catalogue was and is purely out of conscience, not out of ill-will to any man, but to preserve many from falling, and to recover others before they are gone too far.

2. The Errors, Practises, wayes which I lay down throughout my Book, are the very principles and wayes of the Sectaries as such Sectaries, either being their Opinions, or flowing necessarily from them, or are means made use of by them to increase their way, compasse their designs, whereas any personal miscarriages of the Presbyterians are far from falling under any such considerations; but the fruits of the flesh and Satan taking advantage upon them, of which things they have no fruit, but are ashamed and have repented.

p. 663. These Errors and Practises in the Sectaries are now found in them, cleaving to them since, and not before they turn'd Sectaries, whereas these miscarriages of the Presbyterians, are not now upon them, nor never since they were Presbyterians, but may be many years before, when Episcopal and foolish.

4. The Independents and Sectaries cry up themselves and their way as a purer, holier way then other mens, making themselves the only Saints, the Paradise of God, the tender conscienced men, thereupon separating from our Churches, and accounting the Presbyterians as a dunghil; which kinde of notions among the people, crying the Saints, the Saints, tender consciences hath gained them more then all their Arguments; and therefore to take off this Argument, 'tis necessary to shew they are not holier then others, neither have tenderer consciences, but are looser, and larger conscienced men: And I ask Cretensis, when as Bellarmine and other Papists bring against Protestants holin…sse of life as a note of the Church of Rome, and boast of the great holinesse that is in their Church above what is in the Protestants; whether do not the **Whitaker, Second Con…ro. De Eccles. quaest. 5. c. 11 p. 342, 343. Papistici Doctores turpes & scelerati sunt & in deli…iis viv…t omnes à Papa summo illorum Pontifice ad infimum us que P…r…chum multi non …aevi modo, sed flagitia etium gravissima inter illos reperiuntur. vide ibi plura. Willets Synops. Second General Controversie of the Church. Quest. 3. of the notes & marks of the Church, pag. 98 Amesi Bellarm. Enervat, De Notis Ecclesiae. Legantur igitur vitae Pontificum Romanorum, de Sanctitatem Pontificum.Protestants justly and properly to disprove them, give instances and stories of the wicked lives and ways of many Papists, besides of the Doctrines in the Church of Rome; and if the Protestants do it and are blamelesse, how can it be a fault in the Presbyterians to do the same, when they are to answer the Sectaries? but now the Presbyterians do not separate from the Independents out of pretences of greater holinesse, nor cry up themselves in Sermons and Books as the only Saints, and therefore the Independents cannot so justly bring these things against the Presbyterians, as the Presbyterians against them.

5. As for that Manuscript which came to Cretensis above a year since concerning Mr. Edwards, which discourseth his jugling and indirect walking between the two Towns of Godalming in Survey, and Dunmow in Essex, which will be attested by good hands, and be content to submit it self to the Presse: I Reply, let Cretensis print it when he please, I challenge him to do it, so he print nothing but what he will make good; I remember 'tis a speech of famous Mr. Bolton in some of his works, Innocency and Independency makes men of the bravest spirits, I blesse God I have Innocency, knowing nothing by my self of fault in this matter, and I p. 67have Independency, being an Independent in a true notion, not hanging upon great men, nor hunting after Preferments and great Livings, and I desire the Reader to observe what I shall say of this matter, Cretensis could hardly have instanced in a busines to make more for my praise, and his shame, then this; and if he be able to give me any one instance of an Independent and Sectary that hath so denyed himself for the Publike, and for strangers, as I did in that, I shall begin to think there are Independents in England who seek the Publike good, and not their own things. And for the matter of Dunmow, I have so much certainty and confidence of it, that if it were known commonly, it would turn to my great honor (which here Cretensis threatens me with as a matter of reproach, and indeed the only thing, which belike Cretensis in all his gathering and enquirings after me, could light upon to upbraid me with) as that I dare refer it and stand to the Arbitrament of Mr. Thomas Goodwin, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Bridge, (whom all the world knows, through difference of judgement, are not my best friend…) whether in that businesse I be to be blamed, or rather have not done a singular thing, and like a man who hath walked circumspectly, avoiding all appearance of evil: And truly Cretensis you may give a loser leave to speak, which for the present I shall do briefly (reserving the large relation, both of Dunmow and Godalming, to my fuller Reply) and whatever I speak, and much more will be attested under the hands of many godly Ministers, some dwelling neer Dunmow, and acquainted with this businesse from first to last, others, Members of the Assembly intrusted also in it, and under the hands of divers godly persons of the Town, fully knowing the businesse, together with the Minister of the Town, the now present Incumbent.

In brief, the great businesse of my jugling and indirect walking between the two Towns of Godalming in Surrey, and Dunmow in Essex, was this, that to prevent the coming in, and for removing out one gotten in against the consents and liking of the godly people, and the Ministers intrusted in the businesse to provide for them, my name was made use of to the Committee for Plundred Ministers to be put in for the Sequestration of Dunmow; and without it, as things stood in that case (the particular whereof, with that whole businesse from first to last, I shall hereafter relate at large) it was judged both by godly Ministers and the people, (and therefore I earnestly entreated to give way to it) there was no other way to effect it; which title I held for a few weeks, meerly for the good of the People, till an able and fit man could be found out for the place; in which time that my name was putting in, and was in, though I was put to a great deal of trouble, and some charge in Journeys, riding three several times to Dunmow, besides other expences for the good of the place, as in disappointing men to come in upon them, and otherwise p. 68(for there were many difficulties in the businesse, as will appear when I shall give a full relation of it, and that occasioned by a Sectary or two, par…ly out of ill will to me, and for fear I should have gone thither, and partly out of disappointment of some reward and thanks, which one of the Sectaries expected in case one fair for it had come into the place, as may without all breach of charity be conjectured by words heard by two godly persons of Dunmow Town) and though (my name being made use o…) the profits were absolutely sequestred to me at such a time of the yeer, as that I could have made my self whole, yea, a great gainer, yet I never took penny nor f…thing of the Living, no not so much as one penny to pay the charges I had been put unto, for the necessary preserving of the Living to the Town, nor never had penny to this day (which though I conceive I might with a good conscience have taken, there being no reason I should go to war at my own charge) yet because that I might honour the Gospel, and take away all occasion from those who would seek to speak evil of me; and because if I had taken any thing, it might have been interpreted & reported a great deal more; besides all might not have known the reason of it, therefore I forbear so much as ever to receive or touch one penny belonging to Dunmow; and truly I believe if the persons be enquired of who chiefly laboured in this businesse, to bring in a godly able man to Dunmow, and know all passages (men who are meer strangers to me save only in this businesse) will say such was my care, pains, and faithfulnesse for their Town (in the midst of many intervenient difficulties cast in by some instruments, who either had a minde to the place, or hoped for something,) that Dunmow hath great reason to blesse God for me, and that I was to them as one not seeking my own things, but the things of Jesus Christ, their spiritual good: And now Cretensis print when you please your Manuscript you have by you, only be sure it be not drawn up by some persons, who by my means were kept out of the Livings of Dunmow, and of Godalming, or by some who would have brought them in▪ but being disappointed of their ends, were vexed, and imagining I might have converted the means of Dunmow to my use, (because they would have done so, if it had been in their power) though to be revenged of me by drawing up a story of my jugling, and indirect walking, and putting it into the hand of Master Goodwin, to make his use of; but Cretensis, let me tell you (however Independents, and Sectaries use to jugle and walk indirectly) I hate jugling, and indirect walking, and am a plain open-hearted man, and I will give you leave to follow me, in all places this 22. yeers last past where I have lived and preached, from Cambridge to Walden, and from Walden to London, and in London from one place and Church to another, and from London to Harford, and Harford to London, and from London to Isleworth, p. 69and from Isleworth to Godalming, &c. and to charge me justly if you can with jugling and indirect walking: I am confident that in all those places I have left a good savor, and none will blame me either for life or Doctrine unlesse they be Sectaries or Cavaliers, yes I know there are some Independents who were so convinced of my diligence, painfulness… in my work, unblameable good conversation, that however they love me not for opposing their way, yet upon all occasions will testifie for me against the fury and violence of some: But Cretensis let me tell you, I wonder how you dare speake of my juglings and indirect walking, when as the tricks and juglings of your party are so many, and so m…nifest to all the world: I could write a good large Book of this Subject, the juglings, indirect walking, equivocations of the Sectaries, yea of their jugling between two Places and things: I could tell Cretensis now (but that I must remember tis not my large Reply) of his juglings and indirect walkings between his Fellowship in the Colledge and a wife (both against the Statutes, and I think against his oath) between the two towns of Raynum and Lyn, between Raynum and Yarmouth, Raynum and Norwich, between Raynum and London, between his two Churches and Livings, his Parish Church, and his new separated Church, between his Vicaridge of Coleman street after Voted to be Sequestred, and his gathered Church; as also his juglings in his Sermons and discourses, saying and unsaying, affirming and denying, but I spare him; I could tell Cretensis of Mr. Peters juglings and indirect walking for four yeers by gone between old England and new England, having every Spring taken his leave in the Pulpit of old England, and yet he is not gone; of his jugling and indirect walking between the West and London, London and other Countries to make **Vid. Minors no Sentors, pag. 26. These laws would save that Vbiquitary perturber of, sollicitor, and stickler at most of our late elections Mr. Hugh Peters a great de…l of unnecessary, unfiting pains, sollicitation, and abuse of the Pulpit, to the peoples great disgust, for his own private lucre, and advancing the designs of his partyBurgesses for Parliament, I could relate also Master Wells his halting between Giles Criplegate and New England, between Mr. Walker and the money for the poor childrens sending over to New England; I could tell a story of an Independent Minister who sought to have, and actually had about fourescore pounds for that which he never preached one Sermon for, coming into the Sequestration about Michaelmas, after all the Harvest was in; as also of another Independent Minister (who hath got well with his riding between places) who had fourty pounds in ready money upon his admittance to be Chaplain of a Regiment, who after he had received it, never came at them, nor looked after them, not so much as given one Sermon, or ever provided any m…n in his place: I could tell of the juglings and shu…flings of the Independents about p. 70their new Model of Church-Government, their many pretended excuses why they put it not forth, as also of Independents juglings and indirect walkings to the rasing of their own foundation, both in the point of the **Vid. Independ. rasing their foundation, p, 2, 3, 4, 5▪Sacrament and Church-Government, but I spare them for the present. In one word, the Reader may see the clear difference between my juglings and indirect walkings between Godalming and Dunmow and the Independents walking…, they take 40. pounds nay 80. li. for preaching never a Sermon, taking never a journey, being at no cost, pains nor trouble; but Mr. Edwards makes three journies from London to Dunmow backward and forwards (each journey being 64. miles) preaches Sermons when he comes there, is at a great deal of trouble in London, yea and some charge for the good of Dunmow, and when many pounds lies in his power to pay himself well for all this, he takes not one penny nor farthing, and is not Mr. Edwards then a great jugler and indirect walker? Cretensis, shew me but such an Independent Jugler and indirect walker guilty of his fault, Et eris mihi magnus Apollo; Certainly Cretensis if your informations of Presbyterian mistakes in the night, and your story of a Presbyterian Angel wherewith you threaten me if I meddle any more with the Independents, prove no better then the Manuscript by you which came to your hands about a yeer since concerning Mr. Edwards himself, which discourseth his jugling and indirect walking between Godalming and Dunmow, instead of hurting the names and reputations of Presbyterians, and making them so many dead corpses, they will cause the names and reputations of Cretensis and his Informers to be like so many stinking Carrions, and by this one instance of Cretensis Manuscript upon which he puts such choyce special marks of truth, as that the writing will be attested by good hands; and if there be no remedy, will be content to submit it self to the Presse: Cretensis p, 34. the Reader may judge of all his other informations, and lawfully conclude, if his Manuscripts so and so qualified be such as he could hardly have instanced in a businesse more to Mr. Edwards honour, and yet according to his Manuscript is framed for his reproach, what must his loose informations be by word of mouth, especially taken up from Anabaptists and loose persons who care not what they say of the Orthodox godly ministers, whom they look upon now as the only great block in their way of Error, liberty and confusion.

Cretensis pag. 41. and 42. speaks of a long formal story of one Nichols living about Moor-fields, &c. related by me in Gangraena, pag. 78, 79. of which story Cretensis saith tis long, the particular forgeries in it numerous beyond measure, in which respect he desires the Reader to make the computation, which he may do with exactnesse enough in comparing Mr p. 71Edwards Relation with some lines given in to him by Mr. Burroughs in writing anent the businesse, and then Cretensis sets down what Mr. Burroughs gave him in writing, which is to a tittle, as followes. That Story Mr. Edwards hath pag. 79 of one Nichols, and of a meeting concluded of, occasioned by some vile opinions vented by that Nichols; where Mr. Greenhil and my self (he saith) was, together with divers passages that he relates came from me at that meeting is all false. I know no such man as this Nichols, I never heard there was such a man in the world, till I read it in Mr. Edwards his Book. I …o this day know of no meeting about him, or any of his opinions either intended, desired, or resolved upon, much lesse that there was any such meeting. The next Lords day after Mr. Edwards his Book came forth, Mr. Greenhil asked me whether I knew of any such meeting with that Nichols; for his part he wondred to see such a thing in Mr. Edwards his Book, for he knew of no such meeting.

This passage in Cretensis answer of all others (especially because of Mr. Burroughs testimony given in writing under his hand, besides mention made of Mr. Greenhil to in this testimony, that he knew of no such meeting with Nichols, but wondred to see such a thing in Mr. Edwards his Book) took most with many to weaken the truth and credit not only of this story related by me of one Nichols, but of many other Relations in my Book, this being objected to many of my Friends; you see what Mr. Burroughs hath given under his hand; and therefore because of the great name of Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhil (which Cretensis makes use of here) to make my story numerous in particular forgeries beyond measure, I shall inlarge upon it, to make good the truth of it, notwithstanding Mr. Burroughs testimony to the contrary, and Cretensis comments and glosses upon Mr. Burroughs writing, and my story; and now what if my story of Nichols prove true, and and that in all the particular branches in it, where is Cretensis then? in what predicament will Cretensis, Mr. Burroughs, and Mr. Greenhil be found, and that tis certainly true, and hath been testified again and again, both to me and to many others, both Ministers and Citizens since my Book came forth, I desire the Reader to mark what follows. For the first part of the Story related by me pag. 78. concerning one Nichols coming into Stepny Parish, and to Mr. Greenhils face justifying those wicked Opinions there set down, as that God was the Author of all sin, &c. (yea maintaining more then I have particularly mentioned in pag. 78. namely, That children owe no obedience to their Parents except they be godly) 'tis most certainly true, and Mr. Greenhil dares not deny it; and for proof of it, Mr. **This Mr. Randal is known well to many godly persons, and is a godly man, a Schoole-master about Stepny, and a Minister also, not that Randal the Antinomian and Famili….Randal an eare and eye witnesse related it to me, and p. 72to others, yea since Cretensis Book came forth that denies the truth of this story; I have asked Mr. Randal of it, and he affirms it to be undeniably true; and for to evince the truth of it, Mr. Randal told me these circumstances, viz. who were present when Nichols did maintain these opinions to Mr. Greenhil, namely, besides himself one Oates a Carpenter, and divers women; as also Mr. Greenhil could not stay long with this Nichols, being to go forth to some place where he had appointed to come, and should be staid for; so that thus far the story is without all question true, and I am confident Mr. Greenhil upon new consideration and rubbing up his memory, will speak no more such words to Mr. Burroughs, as to wonder to see such a thing as this in Mr. Edwards Book, and that he knows of no such meeting. Now for the second part of the story, namely that at a meeting where Mr. Burroughs was present, with divers others, Mr. Greenhil did relate unto his Brother Burroughs this sad story of Nichols venting these opinions fore-mentioned, and upon that, how all the Discourse following related by me in this story of Nichols, page 79. yea more passed between Mr. Greenhil and Mr. Burroughs, is as certain as the first; and for proof of it one Mr. Allen of Stepny Parish, a godly understanding man who was upon the place, and heard all, related it to divers in Mr. Bellamies shop in my hearing, of whom after he had made an end of speaking to the company, I enquired more perfectly how he knew all this to be true, and whether he was an ear witnesse, and got him to name over the opinions again, and to repeat other passages to me for the help of my memory, and for fear lest I should mistake the relation, so soon as Mr. Allen had done, I went immediatly home, and writ down in my Diary the whole businesse from first to last, with the day of the monethmonth, the place, and persons, when, where, and to whom also besides my self it was told: And further then all this, since my Book came forth, and Cretensis Answer to it, though this story is branded by Cretensis to have particular forgeries in it, numerous beyond measure, and all Nichols Opinions related by Mr. Greenhil to Mr. Burroughs, with divers passages mentioned by me to come from Mr. Burroughs at that meeting, all affirmed to be false, yet Mr. Allen (before ever I spoke one word with him coming into Mr. Bellamies shop accidentally, where when he came in some company were speaking of Cretensis Answer to my Book, and of this very passage of Mr. Burroughs under his hand brought by Cretensis to disprove that story) of his own accord justified the story of Nichols coming to Mr. Greenhil and Mr. Greenhils relating it to Mr. Burroughs, with all the discourse following upon it, saying I am the man that told it Mr. Edwards, and that in this shop, and Mr. Greenhil and Mr. Burroughs dare not deny it; for the story (saith Mr. Allen) is most certainly true, and all the mistake is of those words a meeting concluded p. 73of, where Mr. Greenhil should relate these Opinions, whereas the making known of those Opinions and the Discourse upon occasion of them was not at a set meeting on purpose appointed for that occasion, but at a usual meeting on the Lords day after Mr. Burroughs his preaching in the morning, where at Colonel Zacharies house Mr. Burroughs Mr. Greenhil and divers godly persons use to meet; and as Mr. Allen said this in the presence and hearing of three godly Ministers and divers Citizens, so hath he (as I am certainly informed) drawn up with his own hand for the Presse a Narration of this story of Nichols, maintaining those opinions to Mr. Greenhil, and of Mr. Greenhils reporting the Opinions to Mr. Burroughs, with all their discourses thereupon, yea more fully and particularly then I have in Gangraena, so that tis strange to me that Mr. Burroughs should dare to give such a writing under his hand to Cretensis, as to say that story Mr. Edwards hath page 79. of one Nichols &c. is all false, when as the whole story and all the particulars of it are true, and there is nothing false in the story from first to last; only there is a mistake in the transition from the first part of the story to the second, and in the passing from the first meeting to the second (which in strict acception of words is no part of the story nor of the matters contained in it) namely in those words of a meeting concluded of, which implies a set meeting occasioned upon those opinions, whereas the second meeting at which Mr. Greenhil declared these opinions of Nichols, and all those speeches passed between them, was not on purpose about Nichols and his opinions, but a meeting where constantly on the Sabbath day mornings after Sermon, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Greenhil, and divers private Christians using to come, Mr. Greenhil took occasion to speak of this Nichols opinions. Now I desire the Reader to consider Mr. Allen relating to me the first meeting where Mr. Greenhil was without Mr. Burroughs, with the opinions vented then, and telling me there was a second meeting presently after that, where, upon occasion of a former meeting and opinions then maintained, Mr. Greenhil related the opinions, and all that discourse above mentioned, passed, but not acquainting me with the nature of the second meeting, viz. that it was of course every week after Mr. Burroughs morning Sermon, whether I might not well conclude (and cannot easily conceive how I could understand it otherwise) the second meeting to be occasioned by the first, as well as the second Relation followed upon occasion of the first; and though it were not just so, viz. a set meeting to that end, where all I set down in Gangraena was spoken, but an ordinary meeting where M. Greenhil took the occasion to declare as abovesaid, whether this mistake be a matter to be so much made of as to be branded with forgery, falsenesse, or for me to be cryed out of for telling a story having particular forgeries in it, p. 74numerous beyond measure, when as the circumstance wherein the mistake lies, is no repoach, or c…lumny, but in favorem & honorem; and I appeal to the Reader whether if the story had been in that particular circumstance according as I set it down, a meeting concluded of, it had not been more for the honour of Mr. Greenhil and Mr. Burroughs to have made a solemn businesse of it by appointing a set meeting to have advised what to have done in this sad case, and such like, then only at an ordinary meeting on another occasion by the by to speak and discourse of it. But before I passe from this, I shall lay down four things. First discover and lay open the equivocations and mental reservations of Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhil given in to Cretensis in writing. Secondly, Mr. Greenhils and Mr. Burroughs plain untruths which cannot be salved, no not by equivocations. Thirdly inquire into what may be the reasons moving and inducing them thus to do. Fourthly, commend something to the Readers consideration and observation from all this Discourse.

1. The Reader may here observe the fallacies and equivocations of Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhil; Mr. Burroughs gives a writing under his hand to Cretensis concerning the story Mr. Edwards hath page 79. of one Nichols and a meeting concluded of, &c. saying 'tis all false; Now who is there that reads these lines given under Mr. Burroughs his hand but conceives that Master Burroughs brands this whose story of Nichols of forgery, as if there never had been any such man, nor any such opinions maintained by him, nor Mr. Greenhil and Nichols had never met, nor Mr. Greenhil had never at any meeting declared to Mr. Burroughs and others any such opinions, nor never any such discourse in reference to those opinions had passed between Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhil, as is set down by me; This is the English and common construction which all people (who beleeve Mr. Burroughs) make of this writing, crying out, O what a lyer is is Mr. Edwards, and what a lying Book is Gangraena! yea we see Cretensis himself, the profound Oracle of the Sectaries takes Mr. Burroughs meaning thus, as the Reader may perceive by his commentary upon the writing, rendring from thence this story of Nichols related by me, so to the world as if it were all forged, and a meer fained thing, going over most of the particulars in this story one after another in his scoffing way, damning each part of it as false, and then passing his sentence upon the whole together in these words: This story is long, and the particular forgeries in it numerous, beyond measure; and all Cretensis grounds upon, is Mr. Burroughs writing which he received from him; desiring the Reader to make the computation, which he may do with exactnesse enough if he shall please to compare Mr. Edwards Relation with these ensuing lines which he received from Mr. Burroughs p. 75himself in writing, anent this businesse. Thus Mr. Burroughs gives a writing under his hand so couched and drawn up, making use also of Mr. Greenhils testimony to strengthen it, that all may take it, and many do, as if the story related by me were false; but doth Mr. Burroughs think, or believe so of this story as his words carry it? no, he knows in his conscience the contrary, only he writes thus to Cretensis for the present, because it will serve his design, and if his fallacies shall happen to be discovered, he hath so placed his words that he will have a back door to come out at, he hath all along so framed and penned his writing, that though it carry in the face of it another meaning, yet upon two or three words placed artificially he thinks to come off, and salve his credit from being branded a lyer under his own hand, and that is from putting all he sayes upon those words a meeting concluded of; which words meeting and such are several times used by him, (each of them six times a peece) and brought in at every turn and corner to salve him, all the weight of his testimony still referring to the words, meeting, and such, such meeting, such a man, &c. which the Reader may easily perceive: So that Mr. Burroughs equivocation lies thus, he puts all the story upon a meeting concluded of, and speaks of the whole story still as upon such a meeting. Now there being no set meeting on purpose for those Opinions, but the meeting where these Opinions were declared by Mr. Greenhil an ordinary usual meeting, he thereupon in those lines given to Cretensis, doth not only conceal what he knew, but denies the whole story all along, such a man, such opinions; such passages, related, &c. carrying the matter so as if the whole story had been false, because one circumstance in the manner of the narration of it was mistaken, and this is his evasion framed with much art, and studied on purpose to deceive the Reader.

The second equivocation and evasion at which Mr. Burroughs thinks to come out at to salve himself, and yet impeach my story of falshood is this, that he never knew such a man as Nichols, nor ever was at any meeting with him, neither did he ever hear of his name, or that there was such a man in the world; which things have been alledged for him by some of his friends upon my affirming the truth of the story, and that I should prove it; Now granting all this to be true (though some part of it I much question) yet my story is not made false by this; Gangraena page 79. for I do not in my story of Nichols, charge Mr. Burroughs that he ever was at a meeting with Nichols, or ever saw his face, only I say Mr. Greenhil and he met (which is most true) and therefore Mr. Burroughs confounds meetings, jumbles two into one, which I make in my Relation distinct, on purpose for an evasion; neither of the second meeting (which I speak of) where Mr. Burroughs was with Mr. Greenhil, do I say Nichols was there, but rather the contrary, laying p. 76down that Mr. Greenhil related to Mr. Burroughs and others, what had been vented by Nichols a few dayes before; and now I appeal to the Reader whether this be ingenuous fair dealing to deceive the Reader thus, by casting the aspersion of falsenesse upon a true story, and yet to keep a reserve to come off with in case of being chalenged? or rather whether is not this Jesuitical equivocation, and whether any Jesuite could, or would have drawn up half a score line… fuller of equivocations, reservations, and double expressions then Mr. Burroughs hath in these few lines: I am of the mind this Manuscript of Mr. Burroughs discovers his jugling and indirect walking between the two meetings, that where Master Greenhil was without Master Burroughs, and that where both of them were, that of a meeting concluded of, such a meeting, and an ordinary usual meeting, more then Cretensis Manuscript will do my jugling and indirect walking between the two Towns of Godalming in Surry and Dunmow in Essex; but to make an end of Master Burroughs equivocations, I wish Mr. Burroughs to think often of that in Iames, cap 1.8. A double minded man is unstable in all his wayes, which hath been often in my mind of him, he of all the Apologists in many things seeming to come neer us, even as if he were ours, and then flying off again; I could mind him of divers passages, both in the Assembly and out of the Assembly, in his Sermons, and Conferences, wherein he of all the rest hath most yeelded, inclined to us for a fit, and yet at other times none st…ffer nor fiercer then he.

2. As in Mr. Burroughs writing to Cretensis, I have shown plain equivocations, so there will be found in it manifest falsity, and some passages that cannot be salved from lying, no not by the help of an equivocation; as for instance, Master Burroughs speaks as of the whole together, that story of Nichols, not a part of the story, and saith▪ all is false, which is an apparent untruth, for though some part of it were false, yet if any of it were true (especially the major part) it cannot be affirmed all is false, and then though in some parts of it Master Burroughs may equivocate, yet in others he cannot; as for instance, the first part of the story wherein is laid down Nichols maintaining to Mr. Greenhils face those wicked opinions, is a part of the story of Nichols and undoubtedly true, how then can that be said to be false? besides it precedes those words expressed in Gangraena, a meeting concluded of, upon which Mr. Burroughs evades, and so cannot be salved by having a reference to them, and yet this is the first and one great part of that story Mr. Edwards hath of one Nichols; how then can Mr. Burroughs words, viz. of affirming that story Mr. Edwards hath of one Nichols, to be false, be in any sense justified to be true? again, how can Mr. Burroughs say he never heard there was such a man in the world as Nichols, when as it cannot be thought but that Master Greenhill named him to him at Colonel Zacharies p. 77house? and that Master Burroughs should never hear of Nichols name, Mr. Greenhil and Mr. Burroughs being so familiar, and Mr. Greenhil relating to him the opinions, that Mr. Burroughs should never aske the mans name who held such vile opinions, nor Mr. Greenhil never speak of his name, seems to me very strange; and if so, how came Master Allen to hear and know that the opinions related to Master Burroughs, were one Nichols opinions, seeing Mr. Allen was not at the first meeting where Nichols was with Mr. Greenhil, but only at this second meeting where Mr. Burroughs was? again how can Mr. Burroughs give it under his hand, that he to this day never knew of any of Nichols his opinions, when as the opinions of Nichols laid down by me in the story of Nichols, were told him by Mr. Greenhil, and Mr. Burroughs thereupon was so affected, that all those speeches fell from him, about the necessi…y of a Government, and power in the Magistrate, and that over conscience, &c. Lastly, for those two or three last lines of Mr. Burroughs, namely Mr. Greenhils asking him whether he knew of any such meeting with that Nichols; this being spoken of in reference to the story of Nichols set down by me in Gangraena, that for his part he wondred to see such a thing in my Book, for he knew of no such meeting, how durst Mr. Greenhil say thus, and Mr. Burroughs give it under his hand to be printed to abuse the world thus; for did not Mr. Greenhil know of a meeting with Nichols, which I spoke of in my Book in the former part of this story of Nichols, where Nichols justified to his face these opinions, and which was the ground and occasion of all the discourse related by me in the second meeting? and yet Mr. Greenhils question to Mr. Burroughs, and his own answer to it here set down by Cretensis as from under Mr. Burroughs hand, are so set down that every Reader (who will believe them) believes and takes it for granted, that Mr. Greenhil no more then Mr. Burroughs ever knew such a man as this Nichols, nor never heard there was such a man in the world, till he read it in Mr. Edwrrds his Book, nor ever knew of any meeting about him, or any of his opinions; and so we see Cretensis (though an acute man) understands it so, and vapors exceedingly upon it.

3. It may be demanded and asked what should be the cause, and what may be the reasons why Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhil should thus conspire together to give such a testimony in writing as this against the story of Nichols, which cannot b…t with all ingenuous men prejuduce them much, (the fallacy of it being once made known) as being at the best but a grosse equivocation, and a studied peece to deceive the Reader, especially considering that nothing I speak of in that story of Nichols was to the prejudice and disparagement of Mr. Greenhil and Mr. Burroughs, but much to their honour, p. 78as being at that time in so good a temper as to be affected with the evil of Errors, and wicked Opinions.

Now of this I conceive these three Reasons: First, Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhils earnest and eager desire of taking all advantages, and opportunities to blemish me, and to render me a Lyar to the world, which that they might do, conceiving they had taken me tripping in a mistake (though no material one, nor nothing to their prejudice, and so no slander nor calumny, but making for their honour) they prosecute it, and improve it so far, that to make something of it (poor men) their ill-will and hatred against me, blinding and befooling them, leads them into Equivocations, mental Reservations, and Untruths, even to the wounding of their own reputations amongst all unprejudiced men. Secondly, a Design thereby to blast my Book among the people, to render it odious, to cause the truth of all matters of fact in it to be suspected, and so to hinder the good intended by me in that Book: Now Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhil having a great name among many people, being accounted for men of that way somewhat moderate and among the best of that party, they knowing that their testimony, and that in the mouth of two witnesses (both being joyned together in the writing printed by Cretensis) might wound my Book, and from thence many would take occasion to question all, therefore they catch at the least occasion to declare themselves against my Book. Thirdly, they do it to free themselves from suspition and jealousie, which otherwise they might lye under from the other Sectaries, as if they were against other Sects and Opinions, and for a Toleration of no other Sect but their own, and were for the Government of the Church to be setled in regard of these horrid Opinions and Heresies daily vented, and for the coercive power of the Magistrate against Sectaries, which these conferences upon occasion of Nichols Opinions seem to import, and might give some jealousie of, and therefore to clear themselves from these, and to ingratiate themselves to the Sectaries, and the Sectaries to them, to assure them they will stand by them against the Presbyterians; they greedily catch at the mistake of a circumstance, and thereupon Mr. Burroughs gives a writing under his hand, so couched and curiously drawn up▪ as that all their fellow Sectaries cannot but take it as if they denyed the whole, and as if no such words had ever been spoken by them about Opinions, and the necessity of Government and power of the Magistrate. The Independents strictly so called, are a very few in comparison of the Anabaptists, Antinomians, Libertines, &c. a contemptible party as of themselves, Independents in Armies, Country, City, falling daily to Anabaptisme, &c. and therfore Mr. Greenhil and Mr. Burroughs being afraid they might suffer by this story, take this occasion to clear themselves by sending this writing to Cretensis.

p. 794. The Reader from this writing given under Mr. Burroughs hand to disprove one of my stories, together with Cretensis glorious vaporing inferences upon it, may plainly see what to judge of my stories laid down in Gangraena, and of Cretensis confutation, seeing Cretensis signal choisest proof, and that which among all the rest was the onelyonly testimony that gave him some credit in the world, proves so weak and faulty, yea and at best but a meer juggle and equivocation: what may the Reader think of Cretensis Answers to other passages of my Book? his Testimonies being either from persons of no credit and worth, Apprentice boyes, Sectaries, and men in their own cause, or persons under bad report, as Cosens, against whom there have been many other complaints and depositions for miscariages and misdemeanors (as I am certainly informed) yea among others for abusing a worthy Member of the House of Commons, when as Mr. Burroughs testimony proves so invalid, and the whole story of Nichols (excepting onelyonly one mistake in the transition of it from one part to the other) proves all true, yea and more too then I have set down, as appears both by what I have sa…d already, and from Mr. Allens printed Relation, being a man from whom I had the first Relation of this story: Now by this time I conceive that all men know what to judge of Mr. Burroughs Text, and Cretensis his Commentary and Application, and must conclude Cretensis had little reason to make such Tragical out-cryes, and a great noyse of branding this story of Nichols (as if there had never been any such man in the world, nor no such Opinion, held by any, nor never no such discourse between Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhil) with particular forgeries in it, numerous beyond measure. And for a conclusion of my Reply both to Cretensis and Master Burroughs writing▪ I report thus upon Cretensis in his own words a little changed: That long formal story of one Nichols living about Moor-fields, coming into Stepney parish to draw away people: That to Mr. Greenhils face did justifie and maintain many wicked Opinions, &c. upon occasion whereof at a meeting where Mr. Greenhil, Mr. Burroughs and many others were, which meeting was, viz. a little before Mr. Burroughs fell upon the preaching of the power of the Magistrate in matters of Religion, and the point of Toleration: At which meeting Mr. Burroughs and Mr. Greenhil, with others, spake many good words, particularly Mr. Burroughs, in regard of these things, matters being so, there was a necessity of the Government of the Church, and of the power of the Magistrate, &c. This story is so long, and the particulars in it true beyond question: In which respect, I desire the Reader presently to make the computation, which he may do with exactnesse enough, if he shall please to compare Mr. Edwards his Relation in Gangraena, this Reply, and Mr. Allens Relation anent this businesse, with the Lines received by Cretensis from Master Burroughs p. 80himself in writing, and Cretensis commentary upon them.

Cretensis pag. 42. Sect. 27. having had occasion to mention Mr. Burroughs immediatly before, fals upon a discourse to vindicate Mr. Burroughs of an Error charged upon him by me in the Catalogue of Errors, and labours to clear him by comparing it with other passages in his Book, page 34 35. and by shewing Mr. Burroughs his rule touching forbearance was of matters of Religion, not of matters of State, and then concludes his confutation with a jeer and scoff of what I said against Mr. Burroughs position, namely it was but a forlorn hope, the fore-runner of a great Army of Confutations advancing, and of resembling Mr. Burroughs to Achilles, and applying that verse to me in answering Mr. Burroughs,

Infoelix puer, atque impar congressus Achilli.

Reply. I have much exceeded the nature of a brief Reply to Cretensis, having already gone far beyond the number of sheets I intended in this Reply to Cretensis, and therefore that I may reserve matter for my large Reply, I shall not enlarge my self upon this, nor the following particulars in Cretensis Book as I have done upon some others, but shall passe by what I could say to Cretensis evasions of passages in other pages clearing his meaning, &c. brought in defence of Mr. Burroughs, as namely, that Mr. Burroughs uses to say and unsay, affirm and deny, as the vanity and weaknesse of that distinction (as 'tis here applyed) concerning matters of Religion, and matters of State, as if an erroneous conscience did not make things the Magistrates account, but matters of State, matters of Religion, and the Magistrates also reckon many things to be matters of State, which many consciences account high matters in Religion; all I shall say (and justly) of of many things delivered by Master Burroughs about Toleration and the Magistrate, is, what Galen said wickedly of Moses writings, Multa dicit sed nihil probat; and therefore there will need no great abilities to confute Achilles, Troilus may try his valour with him, by putting him but to prove his own Positions and Assertions; only before I end my Reply to this Section, I must tell Cretensis he forgot when he writ thus, Troilus will needs be trying his valour with Achilles whatsoever it costs him, that Master Edwards had already tryed the strength of Achilles and four more joyned to him, Master Thomas Goodwin, Master Nye, &c. in his Antapologie, or full Answer to the Apologetical Narration, which was never yet replyed to unto this day; and therefore certainly if the unhappy boy were able (as many learned men are pleased to think) to make his part good with p. 81four besides Achilles, he may venture to try a fall with Achilles alone; and therefore if Cretensis will once more get a writing under Mr. Burroughs hand to this purpose, and print it, that Achilles will in writing openly maintain his and Cretensis Church way not to be a Schism, and that it ought to be tolerated by the Supreme Magistracy of this Kingdom, I do proffer to answer him, and to maintain the contrary, and then leave it to learned men to judge which of us hath the fall: only I premise this condition, that both of us may, as in the presence of God, make a solemn promise to call in no second, nor to have any help from others, or to communicate our writings to any man, that so what we do may be a trial of our valours, and not of other mens: And for a conclusion of my Reply to this Section, had not Cretensis come in at the close of this Section with his Troilus and Achilles, his Forlorn-hope, and his great Army of confutations, but staid his pen & closed the period at an erroneous conscience may be such; he had wrought little less then a miracle, for he had written one whole Section among 35. without either giving me the lye, or jeering or scoffing at me, or abusing some place of Scripture, &c. but the evil spirit that attends his pen envied him the crown of that glory, to write one sober Section, and therefore for uniformity sake he makes this like unto its fellows, ending with jeers and scoffs.

Cretensis Sect. 28. pag. 43. saith, How my pen hath abused Mr. Ellis of Colchester, and other faithful servants of God in those parts with base calumnies and slanders, the world will shortly understand by an expresse from thence, of which Mr. Ellis writes thus to a friend in London: The aspersions cast on me and some others here by Mr. Edwards, are as false as foul: which because they are a great part of his Book and strength, those who are here concerned, will, if God please, make Reply.

Reply. Now whether my pen hath abused M. Ellis of Colchester, & other faithful servants of God in those parts with base calumnies and slanders, I desire the Reader to turn back to Mr. Harmars Letter, p. 54, 55. and to read what he hath sent me under his hand; besides, Cretensis the great Critick upon other mens words, in these words his pen (speaking of me) writes either falsly or improperly; for what I print of Mr. Ellis, &c. in Gangraena, are Letters written by another pen, not mine, and therefore if I wanted matter, or had nothing else to do with my time, I could spend as many words (upon a better ground) and expatiate upon calling Mr. Harmars pen my pen, as Cretensis doth upon the word meeting, p. 36, 37. As for the expresse from Colchester discovering the base calumnies and slanders against the Saints there, I hear nothing of it yet, but let it come when it will, I fear it not; for both I and others know so much of the Sectaries of Colchester, of their basenesse, self-seeking, equivocations, &c. that the Answer to it will serve to make a third part of Gangraena; p. 82their Errors, Heresies, Practises, &c. without any help from other places, will serve to fill a good Book of it self. But to animadvert no further on this passage of Cretensis, I put a period to this Section with this short Animadversion, that the things I relate of Mr. Ellis or some others of Colchester in Gangraena, are not false (though Mr. Ellis saith they be foul) neither are they a great part of my Book and strength, but a very small little part, not the twentieth part of my Book; but I am of the minde, when Mr. Ellis and those who are there concerned shall make a Reply, the Rejoynde… to it will have a great deal more, and other manner of things of the Sectaries of Colchester then Gangraena hath, and I must deal ingenuously with Cretensis and Mr. Ellis, I have been told by one of Colchester, That if he had thought or known I would have printed any Letters concerning the Sectaries of Colchester, he would have furnished me with other manner of things then any contained in those Letters Mr. Ellis writes of to a Friend in London.

Cretensis §. 29. p. 44. labors to disprove the testimony given by me of the Author of the third Letter printed in Gangraena, by printing a Letter written to Kiffin concerning him, wherein the Author of that Letter denies Mr. Ricraft to be a person religious, and cordially affected to the Parliament, intimating and casting many foul aspersions upon him.

Reply. I leave Mr. Ricraft to justifie the contents of his own Letter written to me, and to answer this Letter written against him, which he assures me he hath done, and that by this time 'tis printed, wherefore I need say little; only for what I expressed of Mr. Ricraft, I had good reason to do it, both from the testimonies I had received of him upon enquiry from persons judicious and godly, and from some converse and acquaintance which of late I have had with him; and that which made me give him that testimony, A person cordially affected to the Parliament, was his being imployed in several matters and affairs that concerned the Parliament; which besides that I had heard so, I saw two Orders or Warrants, one from the Honorable Committee of both Kingdoms, the other from the Committee of Examinations, testifying his good service, and commending him, which are more to me to assure me that he is a man well affected to the Parliament, then a hundred Letters written to the contrary by **This Letter which Cretensis here prints, was written by an Apprentise boy, an Anabaptist, of Ki…ius Church, unto Ki…s himself, who belike by himself or some other communicated it to Cretensis.Anabaptists (such as Cretensis here prints) can be to deny it: Now as to that particular instance in the Letter brought to disprove Mr. Ricraft for being a person cordially affected to the Parliament (which indeed is all that hath any show of proof, all the rest being meer words) namely, of concealing a Colonel which came out of the Kings Army, which Colonel would have taken away the life of one Mr. Roberts p. 83Minister, and that if Mr. Roberts had known of the Colonels being in Town, he would have endeavored the hanging of him, and yet not without cause, for former discourtesies received from him, &c. I desire the Reader to judge how true 'tis by these following lines which I received from Mr. Roberts, under his own hand, and subscribed with his Name.

I Do not know of any Colonel or other Officer of the Kings party that Mr. Iosiah Ricraft did entertain, nor that the said pretended Colonel, nor any other particular person did particularly endeavor to take away my life: and if I had punctually known that the said pretended Colonel, or any other person had endeavored at the taking of B…rmingham in hoe blood to have destroyed my life, yet I do not conceive that a sufficient cause for me in cold blood, if I had opportunity, to have sought the taking away of his life,

March 24. 1645.

FRAN. ROBERTS.

§. 30. Cretensis thinking that by his Anabaptistical Letter he hath weakned my testimony of the Author, and branded him for a Malignant, he proceeds in this Section against the master of the Letter, charging a great part of it to be notoriously false, as some things about Kiffin and Palmer, and of a woman to be Rebaptized, at which story, out of his love to Anabaptists and Dipping, not knowing how soon he shall fall to that way, he is so offended, that he makes the Tale of Gargantua and Donquixot, with his Wind-mills, to look like Gospels in comparison of it, and thereupon breaks out into a passion, that he saith, It is pity the Relator should either eat or drink, till he either hath proved the truth, or else confessed the untruth of it.

Reply. The Reader may observe Cretensis cannot deny some part of it to be true; and indeed the first part of it of one Web (the most material and foul for the Opinions and Blasphemies; Cretensis doth not so much as offer to disprove:) For those other about Kiffins bragging upon Disputation, and those lighter passages, I conceive Mr. Ricraft will clear in his Answer; but for the main businesse of Kiffin and Patience anointing with Oyl a sick woman, one of their members, that is not denied neither, only some words, which being recovered, she should speak, which is not much material to the thing; besides, 'tis probable words to that effect were spoken, though not in terminis, wherein, may be, the equivocation stands: And lastly, for that story of the woman to be Rebaptized, and the Dipper which Cretensis makes such a quaint invention and bold fiction, &c. as if no Anabaptist could be guilty of such one; I Reply to Cretensis, There are fouler things done by Anabaptists and Sectaries; Mistris Attaways story, with many particular passages in it are fouler, as I shall by Letters, and other Relations make manifest; but whereas Cretensis makes this Relation such a lye to the Wherstone, making all the daring Relations (as Cretensis phrases them) in Gangraena besides to give place to it, I will upon one condition (and that a very reasonable one) that Cretensis and his Church p. 84will promise upon proof of it to joyn in a Petition to the Parliament with the Presbyterians for the forbidding of all Dipping and Rebaptization, and exemplary punishment of all Dippers, as his Brother Kiffin, &c. set down in my large Reply to Cretensis, the place where, the name of the Dipper, with other circumstances of this story; and I do believe, if my intelligence doth not extremely sail me, whereas Cretensis makes such a wonder at one, I shall be able in my next to give instances in the plural number; and for this end I have taken order to have sent me up with hands subscribed, the proof with particular circumstances. And for conclusion of this, I cannot but take notice of the extreme cruelty of Cretensis against the Relator of this story (and by this we may see what liberty and favor Presbyterians must expect, if once we fall into the hands of Independents) That 'tis pity he should either eat or drink, till he hath proved the truth, or confessed the untruth of it. What Cretensis, no other way for a poor man who tells a story of an Anabaptistical Dipper, but to starve him to death, or to make him sin against conscience by confessing the untruth of that which he thinks in his conscience to be true; and that I may convince Cretensis of his rashnesse in speaking thus, I desire him in his Rejoynder to resolve this case, which is the true case of this story: Suppose the person who can prove it lives sixty or seventy miles off, how long, and how many days will you allow the Relator to finde him out, and to bring him, with all other Witnesses before the Magistrate to prove the truth of it; must not this of necessity require some days (though no accidents should fall out, sicknesse, or of being from home, &c. which might retard it) and would you have the Relator all this while go so many days without eating or drinking? that were indeed the ready way for the Relator never to prove the truth of it: I suppose upon second thoughts Cretensis will con…esse he writ this in a passion and flame, as I believe he did all the rest of his Book.

Cretensis §. 32▪ p. 38. denies and puts off several particulars laid down in Gangraena, as about Lieut: Colonel Lilburn, as about one Thomas Moor of Lincolnshire, as about a Woman-Preacher at Brasteed in Kent; and he adorns his pretended Answers with jeers and scoffs, as that Lilburn can see and read twenty and ten untruths in my Book, with the worst of his eyes, and that I am the greatest manifestarian under Heaven, there being no man hath manifested that weaknesse of judgement, that strength of malice against the Saints as I have done.

Reply. Lieutenant Colonel Lilburns playing at Cards, I have proved true in Answer to Walwyn, pag. 30. where the Reader may by looking back be satisfied; as for the rest I have said of him, when Cretensis goes about to disprove it, I shall as particularly make proof of it by instances; and I am of an opinion with Cretensis (though not in his sense) the other things instanced in p. 85as well as playing at Cards, are Grapes growing on the same Thorn; only I cannot but wonder at one fetch of Cretensis (indeed far fetcht) to salve the credit of his Brother Lilburn, That my reporting of Lilburns playing at Cards either is a false report it self, or at least a report of a report which is false, and so little better, which is to make all reports false of which a man is not an Ear and Eye-witnesse, and so nothing to be believed, though related by never such credible Ear and Eye-witnesses: Now after this rate to be sure the story of Cretensis Presbyterian Angel which another hath to tell (some Independent Angel) is false, the story of the Presbyterians fishing on a day of Thanksgiving is false, and little to be regarded; for Cretensis sure was none of the Com— or Sub-Presbyters (though I am confident he would have fished with them a whole Afternoon upon a Thanksgiving day, on condition to have been a Com— or Sub-Presbyter with the Doctorate of the Assembly) The Manuscript of my jugling between Godalming and Dunmow, is either a false report it sell, or at least a report of a report which is false, and so all the stories which Cretensis threatens Presbyterians with to make their Names and Reputations so many dead corpses, will be but either false reports, or at least reports of reports which are false, and so little better, for I believe Cretensis comes little among Presbyterians, and so cannot speak much of his own knowledge.

As for that particular of one of Lilburns eyes put out by a Pike in the street, upon which Cretensis makes jests, as that Lilburn is able to see and read twenty untruths and ten in Mr. Edwards Book with the worst of them. I answer, this passage, as also that of two Children taken away at a time from Cretensis are not made any thing of by me, or insisted upon to upbraid them, but touched only to shew their own folly in rash censuring of Presbyterians from acts of Gods Providence in afflicting, by giving instances in themselves: However, for the truth of the thing, Lilburns eye was so run into by a Pike immediately upon his Letter coming forth against Mr. Prynne and the Assembly, as that he could not see with it for a great while, and it was feared, and commonly reported, he would never see more with it; but for my part, I am glad to hear he can see again with it; and the recovery of his sight doth no whit infringe the truth of what I have written, I expressing not how long he could not see, speaking only of presently after his Letter came forth; but supposing his eye-sight to be as good as Cretensis expresses it, yet I am sure he cannot read twenty and ten untruths in Gangraena, and I suppose by this time the Reader by my Reply is well satisfied, that this speech of Cretensis is an untruth; and as for that jeer of Cretensis, That if I had not a great beam in my own eye, I might easily have seen that neither of Lilburns eyes are put out: I Reply, that lately in Westminster Hall I p. 86walked by Leiut: Col: Lilburn, and eyed him well, and could easily see a great blemish in one of his eyes which was not in the other, and so visible, that many a one in whose eye lesse is seen, yet cannot see at all; and I am of the minde, if Cretensis do but put on his Spectacles, he may see a great blemish in the eye, upon occasion of the Pike running in; but for my part, the greatest hurt I wish to Lieut: Col: Lilburn is, that he may not lose the eye of his soul in the wayes of Error, Schism, contempt of the Ministery, dispising of Dominion, and speaking evil of Dignities, yes, my earnest prayer to God for him, Cretensis and other of their Brethren is, That God would anoint their eyes with eye-salve that they might see and be ashamed, and return. Lastly, for Thomas Moor a great Sectary, and manifestarian that hath done much hurt in Lincolnshire, which Cretensis denies, by saying he doth not more believe there is any such man, then he does that there is any woman-Preacher at Brasteed in Kent, &c. and he believes me to be the greatest Manifestarian under Heaven, there being no man that hath manifested that weaknesse of judgement, that strength of malice against the Saints that I have done. I Reply, first the Reader may do well to take special notice of the bold impudency of Cretensis, who dares deny any thing if it may make for the Sectaries; and 'tis no wonder he denies many other things in Gangraena, calling them lies, forgeries, when as he will dare to write thus, and to deny that which is known to many hundreds, and to persons of all ranks, Ministers, Gentlemen, Citizens, Souldiers. This Thomas Moor does much hurt in Lincolnshire, some parts of Norfolk, Cambridgeshire; he is famous at Boston, Lynne, Holland; followed and accompanied somtimes from place to place, with many attending him; and I cannot think but Cretensis hath heard of him, and that he hath some Equivocation in his words or evasions, as it may be upon the word Sectary, Cretensis not judging any of his Saints Sectaries; or upon great Sectary, as those words seem to imply, A Sectary of that magnitude which he imports; or else upon those words, That hath done much mischief, Cretensis not believing that any of his Saints can do much mischief; and truly Cretensis may with as much truth deny there is any such man as Master Hugh Peters, as deny what I have written of Thomas Moor; and that there is such a one, I have seen, and have by me at this time writings of his to the quantity of almost twenty sheets, for his Opinions, written by Thomas Moor himself, subscribed with his Name, to a worthy and learned Member of the Assembly: As also this Thomas Moor, since these Wars, was questioned and committed by the then Governor of Boston Colonel King, for keeping an unlawful Conventicle at an unseasonable time in the night in the Garrison Town of Boston, and for abusing and mis-calling the Governor when he was brought before him about it. Secondly, as for that jeer, There is no p. 87more any such man then such a woman at Brasteed in Kent, let Cretensis know for all Master Saltmashes bold affirmation in his late Book, that the contrary is known to himself and all the Town, there is such a woman who Preaches often both at Brasteed and other Towns thereabouts; and besides what the Reader in justification of this may finde in this Book, p. 24, 25. I shall adde this as a farther proof related to me lately by two godly Ministers of Kent, which is as follows. Upon Mr. Saltmarshes Book call'd Groans for Liberty, coming forth, and denying there was any such woman, who Preached at Brasteed, many of the godly Ministers of Kent in that part of Kent about Town Mauling at a meeting of theirs, took it in consideration to enquire and finde out the truth of that related in Gangraena, but denied by Mr. Saltmarsh, and entreated particularly a Minister on Mr. T. born in those parts neer Brasteed, knowing the Town, and the people thereabouts, to make it his businesse so to search into it, as that the certain knowledge of it might be reported to them at their next meeting, that accordingly it might be communicated to me for the further clearing of the truth. Mr. T. willingly accepted of the Motion of his Brethren, and accordingly did act in the businesse, and at the next meeting satisfied the rest of the Ministers, that he had found out there was such a Preaching woman an Anabaptist, who somtimes at Brasteed, and other times at Westrum, a Town neer Brasteed, doth meet other women, and after she hath Preached, she takes the Bible and chuses a Text, some Verses in a Chapter, or somtimes a whole Chapter, and expounds and applies to her Auditors; and Mr. T. the Minister, who returned this relation to the Minister, knows this woman, and knows this to be so. One of those two Ministers who acquainted me with this, being entreated to give it me under his hand, hath under his hand given it me, which I keep by me to produce upon any occasion; so that the Reader may see both the one and the other, Thomas Moor the Sectary, and a woman Preacher at Brasteed, and both true, notwithstanding Cretensis will not believe them, but makes a jeer and scoff at these as he doth at all other things. Thirdly, to that bitter, uncharitable, unchristian expression of Cretensis concerning me, that I am the greatest Manifestarian under Heaven; There is no man hath manifested that weaknesse of judgement, that strength of malice against the Saints which he hath done. I would have Cretensis know, if I would give leave to my pen, I could upon these words whip him so as to fetch blood in abundance from him, but I will not write a Satyr, all I will say (though this is a desperate provoking speech, and I have much ado to forbear) is this, I dare appeal to the indifferent Reader, Whether Mr. Edwards or Mr. Goodwin in their writings against Independents, and against Presbyterians, have manifested more weaknesse of judgement, and strength of malice against the Saints: And to satisfie the Reader and my self, I desire p. 88Cretensis in his Rejoynder to shew where in any of my Books I have manifested that weaknesse of judgement, to declare to all the world as Cretensis hath done) that (I put out an Answer to a Book of which I never read one quarter of it; or writ a Book, wherein the far greatest part of the particulars were observed by ot…ers; or had neither leasure nor opportunity to search to the bottom all was storied, and yet notwithstanding deny all with Gyant-like confidence, Cr. p. 50. or where, in what pages of my Books, in…ituled, Reasons against Independent Government, Antapologia, Gangraena, I have discovered that strength of malice against the Independent Saints, as Cretensis in his Books call'd M. S. Theo-machia, Answers and Replyes to Mr. Prynne, A brief Answer to Mr. Edwards, hath against the Presbyterian Saints, and all the Reformed Churches. But no man need marvel at Cretensis course language, either in vilifying, slighting me, or in charging me so deeply, who considers how he hath spared none, of what condition or quality soever, that have come in his way, not regarding any mans age, calling, learning, holinesse, sufferings, place; witnesse his scornful bitter speeches against Mr. Walker, Mr. Roborough, Dr. Steuart; yea, casting fire-brands of reproach upon City, Assembly, Parliament, and all Presbyterians, and particularly upon that worthy, learned, and religious Gentleman Mr. Prynne, the greatest and truest sufferer against those evils of that time, both for matter and manner, of any one man in England, whom above all others (notwithstanding all his sufferings, and other personal worth) he hath slighted, and desperately censured, as here he does me; which the Reader may finde in Cretensis Books against Mr. Prynne, and particularly in that Book Intituled, **Calumny araigned and cast, Pag. 22, & 17. I could prove (I say) by the Commission aforesaid, that Mr. Prynne hath done all these things, on purpose to despite the Spirit of God, to defame the Gospel, to make the ways of godlinesse and religion hateful to the world, to encrease divisions, to multiply distractions, to bring a snare and evil day upon the Parliament, to expose the whole Kingdom to ruine and destruction.Calumny araigned and cast.

Cretensis (§. 33.49.) denies he holds any Errors in Justification greater then I do, yea, or any so great by many degrees; and it will be a thousand times said, before once proved, that Cretensis holds any such Errors, &c. He charges me also, in my Epistle Dedicatory, to abuse the Parliament with a loud untruth, That there are Eleven meetings at least of Sectaries in one Parish in this City: which loud untruth he charges not upon me alone, but upon the Honorable Court of Common-Councel, the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, &c. calling them Brethren in iniquity with me. And further taxes me, that because the Pages of my Book are not large enough to contain my shamelesse untruths, therefore I quote them in the Margin of it, as of Overton and Eaton, and some of Cretensis Church reporting, &c.

p. 89Reply. Cretensis hath been often charged to hold Errours in the point of Justification and the particulars have been specified and proved by many godly learned Ministers, both in Pulpits, writings, and conferences, as **Master Walker, Master Roborough by wri…ing; Master C…alamie in preaching.Master Walker, Master Roborough, Master Calamie, &c. yea, some Independent Ministers, as Mr. Thomas Goodwin, Master Burton, &c. have spoken against his Errours in the point of Justification, using sharp and quick expressions upon discoursing of them (as I can prove by good witnesses.) But for me, I was never taxed by any man, either Presbyterian or Independent, for holding any Errours in the doctrine of Justification: and indeed, I hold nothing in that point but which is commonly laid down in the Confession and Articles of Religion made by the Reformed Churches. And for the proving you guilty of Errour, Master Robrough hath done it cleerly and fully in his Animadversions and Examination of both parts of your Treatise of Justification (which, me thinks, you never having replyed unto, should not have had the forehead to have boasted thus.) Besides also, a godly orthodox learned Presbyt. of the Church of Scot… and hath fully answered you, and discovered your weaknesse, as one of the Reverend Commissioners of the Church of Scotland assured me upon his own knowledge. Secondly, Cretensis shewes his impudencie and boldnesse in denying that which I prove by a Petition of the Honourable Court of Common Councell, wherein they in terminis (as Cretensis cannot deny) affirm it; and I suppose, all men will iudge, such an Honourable Court affirming it, and that to the High Court of Parliament, is to be beleeved before one Cretensis. And of this businesse I know something, for I particularly inquired of some of that Committee appointed to draw up the Petition, and to make proof of things, how this particular was proved; and they told me, it was made apparent to the Committee of Common Councell, whereupon they put it in: and no wise man can conceive, that such a representative Body as the Common Councell, in a businesse wherein they knew they had so many eyes upon them, and so many enemies, (all the Sectaries mortally hating them for this, and other Petitions) would represent such a thing to the Parliament, unlesse they could prove it. The Common Councell knowes very well, the Sectaries want not friends to possesse the Parliament against them, and who watch but for such an advantage, as to take them tripping, thereby to render all they present in this kinde as false: and if Cretensis, or any of his fellow Sectaries could have disproved this, 'tis a wonder to me they did not: When a Committee was appointed to hear, and the Citie to make proof of some of the foulest things mentioned in the Petition, why did not Cretensis, or some of his Church then, for the weakning the credit of the Common Councell, and the better bringing their p. 90preaching-sisters off, come in, and alledg this as a loud untruth? objecting, that by the same reason the story of the preaching women might be false. But how true soever 'tis, Cretensis hath a good faculty, in all things that are brought against the Sectaries, to beleeve nothing; but to be as confident as twice two makes four, that all is false. Well, though I will not be so uncharitable as Cretensis was, to wish Master Goodwin might neither eate nor drink till he had proved what he here writes: yet I heartily wish, that my Lord Major and the Honourable Court would not suffer Cretensis and his Church to meet any more in their Conventicle, till he had made good what he here writes; which, I conceive, they may the more lawfully and justly doe, because he doth not only give them the—, but calls them Brethren in iniquity with me,, scoffing at a saying of mine taken out of the City Petition, But this saying of his need not be melancholy for want of company; it hath brethren enough in the iniquity of it: and who are these brethren, but the Lord Major, Aldermen, and Common Councell? O what an insolent bold passage is this! The Reader need not wonder at his foul mouth, and railing Dialect against me and my Book, who cares no more for this Honourable Citie: I doe not see how the Honourable Court of Common Councell can let it passe without questioning him, to suffer a man, who lives in the Citie under their Government, to abuse them thus in print. I am confident, if the Presbyterians lived in a Citie under a Magistracie and Government, where the Governers were Independent, and should have abused them thus, they would have made the Citie to hot for them. 3. As for that I say of Overton and Eaton, for all Cretensis mincing and shuffling, I shall free my self from uttering untruth; for Overton said, after a boasting manner, unto two sufficient witnesses, that now there was an answer to my Antapologie, and entred into the Hall-book; and they apprehend him so, especially one of them, as that he took order to send me word (I being then in the Country) that an answer was certainly printing; and for my greater assurance, he had searcht the book, and found it entred: so that I and many lookt every day for the coming of it forth; and I never knew before now, that books were entred into the Hall-book, but just when they were going to the Presse. For Eaton, an Independent Milliner, I do not affirm, that he spake the same words which Overton did, for his words were spoken many months before Overtons; only he is quoted in the M…rgin as an instance to make good those words in the second page of my Preface, Their great words and threats of an Answer; which were these that he gave out, There was an Answer to my Antapologie, and he had seen it, and the Author of it had discovered me to be a poor weak man, and my Book a slight easie piece, neither good sense, nor good English, or words to that effect; which Eaton confessed he spake before witnesses, since my Gangraena came forth: p. 91that's all I say of him, or meant, and, I suppose, these are great words and threats of an Answer. Only by the way, I desire Cretensis to resolve me these questions, and then I will give him a good account why I called Eaton an Independent: namely, What was the true reason that Cretensis Reply to my Antapologie, being entred in the Hall-Book in Iuly last, and given to the Bookseller to print, was not printed, but stopped? And how it came to passe, that Eaton, if he be no Independent, had the Reply to my Antapologie communicated to him to read and peruse? And when Cretensis hath resolved these questions, it may be, by the next, if he answer not truly, I shall tell him the reasons of the stop, and to whom else besides Eaton this Reply hath been communicated, as to Master Sympson, and, may be, tell him what Master Overton, or his man, or both, have told a friend of mine, about the Answer to my Antapologie; as namely, what the Licenser did upon perusing of it, and of the Title given to it about The Accuser of the Brethren cast, &c. 4. As for the report of some of Master Iohn Goodwins Church, &c. I observe Cretensis denyes it not, but puts it off with one of his usuall tricks, That he beleeves, I no more know it then declare it. And indeed, this is one of Cretensis jugling wayes which he makes often use of in this Book; when he knowes not what well to say, then he comes in with I beleeve, he no more knoweth, and I no more beleeve. (Cretens pag. 48, 49.) And truly, 'tis somewhat strange to me, that he who is so hard of beliefe in divine things, that he will not beleeve the Scriptures without reason, and hath preached lately with much earnestnesse and violence, that Faith is not to guide Reason, but Reason Faith, will yet in humane things, beleeve any thing against all sense and reason. But to put Cretensis out of doubt, that I know, and can prove what I say, I offer Cretensis, upon promise made from him and his Church, that the honest men who told it out of their zeal to the cause, and their rejoycing in an Answer coming, and to perswade the Presbyterians to the truth of it (who have alwayes much doubted of an Answer to the Antapologie) shall not be censured by the Church, nor looked upon with an evill eye, nor hundred by this from being taken into the preferment of being a Prophet, and preaching for Cretensis, I will name the Minister to whom it was told, and the members by whom; and for encouragement to Cretensis and his Church to make this promise, I will for present name the first letter of the godly Ministers name, well acquainted with some of the Church, namely Master B.

Cretensis, Sect. 26. page 38, 39, 40, 41. spends many leaves in labouring to disprove the information given me of one Cosens of Rochester, and related by me, affirming that relation to be forgery of forgeries, and all is forgery, all over it, and that in it there are well nigh quot verba, tot mendacia; and hee p. 92goes over seven particulars, putting the lye upon each of them, concluding, there is scarce a clause of a sentence true in this Relation. And as all along upon each particular, so both in the entrance to this Answer, and in the close of it, he is full of jears, scoffs, and foul uncivill language.

Reply. This story being the last of those related by me in Gangraena, which Cretensis excepts against in his Answer, and the story next unto that of Nichols and Master Burroughs, (if not more in some respects) which he most insults upon, and triumphs in, I have therefore reserved it to the later end, as being the last particular matter of fact I shall reply unto for the justification and vindication of my selfe against the foul-mouthd aspersions of Cretensis: And I shall first speak to the manner of his Answer and confutation of this Story, and secondly to the matter of it: But before I speak to either of these, I shall minde the Reader of that which I have often spoken of upon severall other particulars which I have replyed unto; namely, that hee must not look for all now that may be said, lest I anticipate my larger Reply; as also, because there is a Gentleman out of Town, whom I have expected almost this three weeks to come to London, who can tell mee some circumstances in this story for proofe of some things more fully and cleerly then the Minister from whom immediately I received it: And indeed, I am told, there is a mystery in some passages of this businesse about Cosens, which being unfolded, will give more full satisfaction in some particulars to the Reader, then yet I am able to doe. For the manner of Cretensis Answer, how unlike it is to a Minister of the Gospel, and how like to one brought up in an Alehouse, or in a Bowling-alley, not onelyonly on a day of publick Thanksgiving, but every day in the week, having their terms of art at his fingers ends, Score up, Tallie on, and such foul-mouthd language, 'Tis a lie, You lie, A loud lie, every impartiall Reader cannot but take notice, and many speak openly of it; and that which makes Cretensis folly and insolencie the greater, and more to be blamed by every indifferent Reader, is this, that he gives me the lie so often, in such a disgracefull, scornfull way, making the relation all over forgery, and that there are so many lies well nigh as words in the story; speaking also most confidently, though falsly, against the worthy Minister who told me this storie, That hee Works stoutly at the forge, and feeds both himself and the world with all manner of scandals and falshoods against the Independents without fear, and in the close vapouring and triumphing at an excessive rate with inferences drawn from his own confutations, as if all hee had said in answer to me had been Gospel; when as all this high and great building is laid and raised solely upon the weak sandy foundation of Cosens his own relation; Cretensis disproving the truth of my relation, and sealing the truth of his own Answer in p. 93seven particulars by no other way, but The man professeth (that is Cosens) that hee knowes no such man, and this counter information I had from the mouth of the said Cosens himselfe, and have the particulars under his hand. Now I appeal to all the world whether any wise man would ever have made such adoe as Cretensis doth here, giving the lye so oft, triumphing so confidently in a businesse meerly upon the information of a man in his own case, and whether this be not worse then to ask my fellow whether I be a thief; (Cret. p. 11.) namely, to ask a mans selfe, and upon a mans owne testimony to call an honest man a thief, and to declare a thiefe an honest man; especially considering, besides Cosens being a party, and in his owne cause, hee is a man against whom there are many depositions, and complaints against him for other miscarriages and misdemeanours, a Copie whereof I am promised from a good hand, and shall insert in my large Reply: But supposing all that Cretensis saith Cosens told him should prove upon further inquiry to be true, and not false; (the contrary whereunto I shall presently make apparent) yet no wise man can excuse Cretensis of a great deal of weaknesse and folly, to put so much weight as hee doth upon such a testimony, and to declare so much to all the world: Certainly great Cretensis is the greatest Manifestarian that I have ever met with, and there is no man hath manifested that weaknesse of judgement, besides strength of malice against the Presbyterian Ministers and Saints which hee hath done both in this, and in many other passages of his Book; as to make an Answer to a Book, and professe truely he never read one quarter of the Book, &c. and in my opinion these acts manifest greater weaknesse of judgement, farre more injudiciousnesse, then the not knowing how to range parts of speech in a sentence, nor to put the Nominative case and Verb together regularly in English, &c. And for a conclusion of what I have to reply against the manner of Cretensis confutation of this story, I referre it to the judicious Readers consideration whether Master Edwards, for relating a story as a Relation, upon the information of a reverend godly Minister well known, living also upon the place, who could upon no reason be judged to do it out of partiality, or for sinister ends, be to be accounted a liar, and to have the lye often given him, or M. Goodwin for denying the whole story, and affirming the contrary upon the bare word and relation of a stranger, a great Sectary, and a party in the cause, who according to all reason cannot be thought but he will speak favourably for himself, especially being such a one, as a man may, without breach of charity, presume he will speak any thing for himselfe in his own cause, when as hee did to mee in the presence and hearing of three godly Citizens alledge in his owne behalfe to cleer himself from all fault in this matter, that one of the witnesses who deposed, said, he was hired to swear against him, and had p. 94five shillings given him by one of the Justices, or some about him, and had three or foure cups of sack given him before he swore, and was drunk when he took his oath; unto whom some of the **March 30. Three honest godly Citizens after supper comming to speak with me, as they were with me Cosens came to speak with me, and was brought into the room where these three Citizens were and I spake nothing to him nor he any thing to me, but in their hearing, who will testifie this and more.Citizens then present with me, replied, he had best take heed what he said to accuse the Justices of Peace, that they should make any witnesse drunck, or have any hand to give 5. s. to one to sweare against him, and that this was no… likely, nor to be beleeved by any wise man; and I suppose if I should reply never a word more to what Cretensis hath objected against this story of Cosens, I had said enough to satisfie rationall men, by declaring I had my information from a person of worth, and by Cretensis nothing is here brought to infringe it, but only the parties own testimony, who is a man also otherwayes obnoxious, as I have already declared. Now from the manner I shall come to the matter; and for the Relation which I have set down of Cosens in the last leaf of my Book save one, I received it from a Reverend Minister who is Preacher at Rochester (the place where Cosens lives) and a Member of the Assembly, who told it me, and a Common Counsell man of this City, and I writ it from this Ministers mouth that I might neither forget nor mistake it, and read it to him after I had done, and upon reading, he approved it as his sense, and that which he had related. But now supposing there should be any mistakes in the first relation made to this godly and learned Minister, yet I reporting it just as I had it from his mouth (he being a man to be beleeved) and as an information only, not as a thing of my own knowledge, I conceive I cannot be taxed for a lyar, not according to any acception or definition of a lye; and if I be in this kinde to be blamed for lying, I desire to know of Master Goodwin by the next in case hee have reported from Cosens a Sectary, a loose person, a man speaking in his own cause, any thing that is untrue, (which that he hath done I shall infallibly prove) how he will free himself from the same crime, and not more justly incurre the title of great Master Cretensis, then I the brand of lying, which he so liberally bestowes upon me. But to come to the particulars, for the first words that Cosens should say, Iesus Christ was a Bastard: 'tis confessed by him who related it (though he had it from a very good hand) that those words are not found in the deposition againg him before two Justices) but these, Christ (alas) he was a child, and you must not beleeve all the words hee said; and for the fuller satisfaction of the Reader, I do here set down the Information and Deposition to tittle as it was taken before the Major of Rochester, and another Justice of Peace.

p. 95Civit. Roffens. The Information of John Cosens of Chatham', taken upon oath the 19 day of August, 1644. before John Philpot Major, and Philip Ward Esquire, Iustices of Peace within the said City.

WHo saith, that about July last was twelve months, he being at work at the house of Master William Cobbams, in the said City with Robert Cosens his brother, they fell into discourse concerning the Book of Common Prayer, when the said Robert offered to lay a wager that the same should be put down within a monethmonth, and should be read no more; whereupon the said Iohn Cosens replyed▪ why Brother there are many things there commanded by God; by what God saith the said Robert? to whom he answered by our Saviour Christ? Our Saviour Christ, said Robert Cosens (alas) he was a child, and you must not beleeve all the words he said.

his mark. Iohn Cosens

Iohn Philpot Major.

Philip Ward.

Vera Copia, & examinat.

per me Iohan, Goldwell.

Now I appeale to the Reader whether these words related in this Deposition, be not Blasphemy as well as the other, and whether a mistake might not easily arise from these words deposed, to report the other; but to put Cretensis out of doubt that 'tis no lye, nor forgery to report such words, yea and more of some Sectaries, Cretensis Saints, and therefore he needed not to have triumphed so much in it: I will give him two instances of Sectaries, who have blasphemed after this manner. The first is one Coleburne of Watford in the liberty of Saint Albons, a great Anabaptist and Sectarie, who spake these words, that our Saviour Christ was a bastard, and the first time that he taught was in a tub upon the sea. This was found by a Jury upon oath, and was returned into the Kings Bench by Certiorarie, in Michaelmas Terme last. The second is one in Midlesex, who is indited at the Kings Bench, for saying that our Saviour Christ was a bastard, and the Virgin Mary a — with many other blasphemous words, which (being so horrid and filthy) I think not fit to make publike: This is found by the grand Inquest in Candlemas Terme last, upon the knowledge of one of the said grand Inquest; and to assure the Reader of what I write, I have by me the whole Processe and particulars at large, which I fetched out of the Crowne Office, subscribed with the Clarks hand, which because they are so large, and I have much exceeded the number of sheets I alotted to this Reply, I forbeare to Print them; but if Cretensis doubt of the truth of what I here write, he may if he will be at the charge, have the whole proceedings p. 96out of the Crown Office attested under hand. And for Cosens speaking these very words, Cretensis a little after (thoug here he denies them) yet confesses these words were charged upon him; though upon examination waved; else what meanes that passage of Cretensis, the witnesse upon whose single testimony (originally) both these and the former words were charged upon him: Now what those former words were, I desire Cretensis to resolve in his Rejoynder.

For the second, that if Jesus Christ were upon the Earth again, hee would be ashamed of many things he then did. This second part of the Relation of the Information Cretensis calls …a lye, and the second in order, and thereupon enlarges himself after this manner. For neither did the man (namely Cosens) speak any such words as these, the witnesse upon whose single testimony (originally) both these and the former words were charged upon him, upon rexamination, and that upon oath before the Committee of the County, waved both the one and the other, as appeares by the said examination under the hand of the Clark of the said Committee, which I saw and read; and is forth comming for any man to peruse for his further satisfaction. Now that the Reader may see what Cretensis confidence and impudencie is, and that Cosens spake such words as these, I desire him to read what followes to a word, taken out of the originalls, kept in the Majors Court of Rochester.

Civit. Roffens. The Information of Francis Tillet, taken upon Oath the 19. of August, 1644. before Master John Philpot Major, Philip Ward, and Barnabas Walsall Iustices of the Peace within the said City.

WHo saith, that in Lent was twelve moneths last, he being upon his duty, at the guard of the Bridg at the Centry with Robert Cosens, and some others, he being talking with the said Robert Cosens about the troubles of the Church, and some speech of our Saviour Christ, he the said Cosens then said, that if our Saviour Christ were now again upon the Earth, he would be ashamed of what he had done; and he further saith, that he heard Iohn Patten of Saint Margarets, and Iohn Cosens Brother of the said Robert, declare that they have heard him say to the effect aforesaid.

the Marke of the said Francis Q Tillet. Iohn Philpot Major. Philip Ward. Barnabas Walsall. Vera Copia & examinat. per me Iohan, Goldwell.

p. 97Now for that which Cretens ▪ alledges here to clear Cosens, that he never spake any such words as these, 'tis all false as I shall demonstrate it to the Reader, and I am confident that Cretensis with all his Rhetorick, and great swelling six footed words, can never clear himself, but must blush for shame, unlesse he be past it, and confesse that either he was too credulous to beleeve such a Sectary and a man in his own cause as Cosens, or else out of haste and eagernesse to confute me, mistooke the businesse quite, or which is worse, did wilfully, and on purpose write thus to brand me, hoping that I should not be able to disprove him by ever getting the Records to testifie the contrary; and before I do particularly disprove these six or seven lines of Cretensis, I shall usher in what I have to say by retorting justly Cretensis words upon himself, which he unjustly used against me, That forgery of forgeries, and all is forgery, all over; for in this confutation of Cretensis (by which you may judge both of those many that go before it, and those few that follow after) There are not only well-nigh, but altogether, quot verba, tot mendica, and yet even this hath this banner of confidence displayed for the credit of it, as appears by the said examination under hand of the Clerk of the said Committee, which I saw and read; and is coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction; all which is false as I shall undeniably demonstrate under the Clerks hand of the Committee; and therefore if I would deale in such a scoffing way with Cretensis, as he hath done by me (though falsely) I could marshall his lies, and ranck them in order, first, second, …hird &c. and could at the end of every one cry, keep tale, score up, tally on, and say this is a fifth (if not a fifth and sixth) phib in the Relation of Cretensis; for here is a big lye with a lesser in the belly of it; in brief, there is never a sentence, nay not a clause, nor one word brought by Cretensis to disprove this second part of the story of Cosens that is true, and yet it hath Cretensis seale upon it, and this foundation (greater then Mr. Edwards, I was informed for certain) namely, as it appears by the said examination under the hand of the Clerk of the said Committee, which I saw and read; and is forth-coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction; and I am confident there are more untruths in these seven lines of Cretensis brought to disprove one clause of one story of mine, then in all my Gangraena (unlesse mistakes in the manner of a Relation, as in the order or mistake of a name, &c.) consisting of thirty sheets; and upon condition that Cretensis will promise to submit to this fair condition, to be willing his Church should be put down, and to Petition with me that upon proof of things by me, his Saints may be punished, I am contented to referre the determination of it to Authority, and if I make it not good, to be willing to suffer what the Parliament shall think fit; but by the way, if Cretensis signall and choyce confutations founded upon examinations under the hand of the Clerk of a Committee which he p. 98saw and read, and is forth-coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction, be of so dark and dismall a complexion, that there is scarce so much as one beam, or the least glimmering of the light of truth in the whole body of it; what shall we think of those that have no such image or superscription of confidence upon them, but be only loose informations from Anabaptists, Apprentices, persons in their own cause &c? If Cretensis Chariots and horse-men fail, surely his Infantry will yeeld the field. And that I may make good all this which I have said, and not only feed the Reader with words and flourishes (as Cretensis doth) I desire the Reader to peruse what followes, which cleerly proves what I say, and confounds Cretensis.

Whereas ceatain Articles are exhibited against Robert Cosens of Blasphemy, which he now alledgeth is confest by some of the witnesses to be rather a suborning then truth; These are to require you to warn these under-written to appear before the Committee at Ail…ford to morrow being Wednesday; fail not, for which this shall be your warrant.

Ail…ford Novemb. 19.

Anthony Weldon.

Iohn Bixe.

Iohn Cosens

Francis Tillet

Iames Hills

Iohn Hills

George Paine

William Barnet

To all Constables, and other officers to whom this shall come, &c.

Let Mr. Goldwell send a Copie of the Articles with these witnesses.

The Examination of Francis Tillet taken upon oath before Sir Anthony Weldon, William Iames, Richard Beale, and Iohn Bixe Esquires, upon an information of some subornation against Robert Cosens, Novemb. 20. 1644.

Who saith that Robert Cosens and this examinat being together upon the Centry, they were talking of the Common Prayer, and the Lords Prayer; and in this discourse the examinate affirmed, That the Lords Prayer was taught unto him by his Forefathers, and that it was of Christs making and framing; whereunto Robert Cosens replyed, That if our Saviour were again upon earth he would be ashamed of what he had done; and that afterward this examinate relating unto his Brother Iohn Cosens this discourse, the said Iohn Cosens replyed, that his Brother Robert had said unto him as much before.

Andrew Lydall Clerk Committee.

Now I desire the Reader but to compare this Examination under the hand of the Clerk of the Committee with what Cretensis hath written anent his businesse, and he will finde Cretensis lines brought to clear Cosens from speaking p. 99these words, to have forgeries in it, numerous beyond measure, the whole and every part of it being nothing but lies; and for the further conviction of Cretensis, I will go over his words. 1. Cretensis saith, neither did the man speak any such words as these. Cretensis, how dare you say so, when as before three Justices of Peace upon oath these words were deposed against him? is your negative testimony without oath sufficient to disprove it? 2. Cretensis affirms for proof of his words, that Cosens never spake such words as these, that the witnesse upon whose single testimony (originally) both these and the former words were charged upon him upon re-examination, and that upon oath before the Committee of the County, waved both the one and the other, which is all stark staring false; and Cretensis proof failing him, what is Cretensis testimony worth? Now if the Reader do but read this Examination under the Clerk of the Committees hand, and compare with that the first Deposition of Francis Tillet before the Major of Rochester and two other Justices, he must presently see it smels above ground, and that here Cretensis words takes place in himself, quot verba, tot mendacia: I desire the Reader to tell the untruths, and that proved upon Record, and not untruths made upon my saying they are lies as Cretensis are upon his bare words.

1. Cretensis avoucheth confidently that it was one witnesse upon whose single testimony (originally) both these and the former words were charged upon him: let this be the first lie in this Catalogue, for 'tis evident by the Depositions which I have set down, that there were two witnesses, Iohn Cosens and Francis Tillet; Francis Tillet who swore Cosens spake these words, and Iohn Cosens who deposed the other words; so that there were two witnesses, and each witnesse deposed not the same, but different words.

2. Cretensis here affirms the former words, namely, that Iesus Christ was a Bastard, were charged upon him; which if they were, and that upon oath, that was a good ground for the report; but if they were not charged upon him, but other blasphemous words, then Cretensis tels another phib, which is the second in order.

3. Cretensis positively (without saying I was so informed, &c.) asserts that these words spoken, viz. by Cosens, If Christ were upon the earth again he would be ashamed, &c. the witnesse upon re-examination, and that upon oath before the Committee of the County waved them: Now how false this is, let but the Reader compare the first and second Deposition of Francis Tillet, who deposed these words against Cosens, before three Justices, and upon re-examination, and that upon oath before the Committee of the County swore the same again the second time, and was far from waving it as appears by the examination under the Clerks hand of the Committee which I have set down; and p. 100now I might say to the Reader, keep tale, this is the third down-right fall, more then a stumble, this is a big lye with others in the belly of it; for first the former words were not charged upon Cosens by Francis Tillet, but only these words; and therefore how could he be re-examined upon that of which he never informed, nor was formerly examined? Secondly, much lesse then could he upon oath wave them; and for the other words which he was re-examined upon, he stood to them before the Committee, and is ready to testifie them still whensoever he shall be called thereunto.

4. Cretensis affirms that he who deposed these words, viz. That if Christ were upon the earth again, &c.) did upon re-examination before the Committee wave them, as appears by the said examination under the hand of the Clerk of the said Committee. Now I might here say, score up; this is the fourth word of folly in Cretensis confutation; for there is no such examination under the hand of the Clerk of the said Committee, but the contrary to it, as appears by that examination set down already taken upon oath before Sir Anthony Weldon, &c. and subscribed by Andrew Lydall Clerk Committee. This untruth may well stand for two, or at least be printed in a Capitall Letter, because he affirms a grosse lye, and a thing quite contrary to truth, to be under the hand of the Clerk of the Committee.

5. Cretensis proceeds upon this examination, that he saw it, which I saw; I might here say, Tally on, this is a fifth phib in this relation; for how could Cretensis see that which never was; but if he saw any such thing that Francis Tillet should deny these words, he must needs see something that was forged by some of his Sectaries, to engage him to confute Mr. Edwards Book.

6. Cretensis further asserts, that he read this under the hand of the Clerk of the Committee: I might here say Cretensis still advances in his Cretian way, and this is the sixth flaw; for how could he read that which never was? and I conceive Cretensis will upon a review of what he hath written, cry peccavi, and say, I was deluded and quite mistaken.

7. And lastly, the said Independent confutation and assertion, for uniformity sake, that it may end as it began, or rather end worse, by rising and ascending in untruths, affirms in the close of it, that this examination is forth-coming for any man to peruse for his satisfaction. Now Reader remember the account, for this is the seventh and eighth time at least, yea the ninth and tenth that this confutation prevaricateth with the truth; for in these words, this examination is forth-coming, there are many lyes. First, there is no such examination. Seconly, then it cannot be forth-coming. Thirdly, not for any one man to peruse, much lesse for any man. And fourthly, it can be much lesse for satisfaction. And I much wonder Cretensis, if you had seen and read an examination under p. 101the hand of the Clerk of the Committee, proving what you here say, and confuting this part of the story related by me of Cosens, and that tending so much to the satisfaction of any man, why did you not cause it to be forth-coming, printing it here together with your Confutation? Certainly Cretensis, had you seen and read such an examination under the hand of the Clerk of the said Committee, there can be no reason given why you should not have printed that, as well as an Anabaptists Letter written to an Anabaptist, and a writing given you from Mr. Burroughs; surely an examination under the Clerks hand of a Committee, would have been more authenticall with rationall men to have convicted my Book of untruths, then a Letter of an Anabaptisticall boy, &c. and therefore for my part, I am confident, Cretensis saw that in the examination brought him by Cosens, which being printed, would have disadvantaged his foul-mouth'd Confutation of this story, either contradicting, or rendring the whole suspected; and therefore he suppressed it, being willing to blast my Book for the present, while it was new come forth, and much sought after; making account, if after I should be able to disprove him, yet he could not play his after game, either by pleading mistakes, and that he was so informed, or else by his Rhetorick and words at will, wrusting either the examination brought him to these word in Cretensis, or else these words and phrases of his to the examination; however one way or other to shift for his credit, and to wrangle it out, in which Cretensis hath a wonderfull Art and faculty by his wit and largenesse of conscience, to call black white, and to make quidlibet ex quolibet; and however Cretensis, to work the Reader to a belief of him in the confutation of this part of the story of Cosens, speaks of an examination under the hand of the Clerk of the said Committee, which he saw and read; yet I am confident he knew it would not prove what he here saith, and my confidence is upon this ground, because from his own words I gather he had this counter-information from the mouth of the said Cosens, and the examination under the hand of the Clerk of the Committee (what ever it was) was brought him by Cosens:Oretens. pag. 40. This Counter-Information I had from the mouth of the said Cosens himself, and have the particulars under his hand. Now I conceive that examination under the hand of the Clerk of the Committee which Cosens shewed Cretensis, he also shewed me, which I carefully read, and that in the presence of three Citizens, in which there was nothing in the judgement of us four to weaken this testimony of Francis Tillet; but rather by that, and the confession of Cosens himself to us, much fell from him to confirm the truth of this, and other passages in this story, which I presently writ down as soon as Cosens was gone: and for a need, besides my own testimony, those Citizens p. 102will be ready to witnesse also the truth of what then passed; so that by all this the Reader may see more untruth in one peece of Cretensis confutation of the story of Cosens, then there are pretended untruths, made by all the art and malice of Cretensis against the whole story of Cosens; so that to conclude this I aske of Cretensis who is the lyar now? and I suppose I may more truly apply Cretensis own words a little changed, spoken against me to himself: doubtlesse the man hath sold himself to write all, and all manner of untruths, that hee can but scrapple together from what mouths, or tongues, or pens, he cares not so they be but Independent in their constitution, and carry any antipathy in them to the honour and good of Presbytery; and in case they be but such, 'tis no matter if they be Anabaptists, Seekers, yea loose drunken persons and Blasphemers. Cretensis by this Answer hath proved many things I spake of in Gangraena, all the Sectaries and Blasphemers closing with Independents, and the Independents with them to make one common party against the godly Orthodox Ministers and people of these Kingdomes who are for truth and peace.

3. Cretensis proceeds to infringe the truth of my Relation of the story of Cosens in five other particulars; but by this part of the story which I have made good, and the many particulars wherein I have disproved Cretensis, especially considering 'tis all of the same complexion, Cosens information being the sole ground whereupon Cretensis goes, (as he confesses pag. 40.) the Reader may easily guesse at the rest, and my Authors I with the Records produced, are more authentick then Cosens bare no; therefore for present I shall not enlarge further upon the third, fourth, fifth heads of Cretensis, but reserve to my full Reply the whole Relation of Cosens being bound over by the Justices upon these blasphemies attested against him to the Sessions, and of his being imprisoned for speaking words against a Member of the House of Commons, dwelling in that county, and of the complaint for his blasphemies against Christ exhibited to the Recorder of Rochester, and of the Recorders binding him to his good behaviour out of the pious sense he had of the wrong done to Christ, and the words he spake to him, and of his addresse to the Committee of Kent for a review of these Depositions, &c. only there seems to be some interfering between the third and fourth branch of Cretensis confutation; Cretensis denying Cosens to be ever under any restraint, or needing any order from any in place, or to any in place to release Cosens, in reference to his blasphemies; and yet he saith presently after, upon the fight of the fore-mentioned examination taken upon oath before the Committee, by the Justices the man was discharged: Now I demand, What was he discharged from? and whether was not this discharging of the man a releasing of the man? Oportet Cretensem esse memorem.

p. 1034. As to Cretensis sixt branch, calling that part of the relation of Cosens a loud lying Information: I reply, 'Tis a mainifest truth, and will be witnessed by many, that Den, Lamm, and Woodman, all three of them have preached in Cosens house, which is so evident in Rochester, that as the dayes of the monethmonth when they preached are known, so are the names of many of the Auditours that were present: and for proof of it, 'tis given me under hand from Rochester, that Woodman himself confest it the very same day he preached before a Justice of peace and other witnesses, being apprehended by the Officers, and brought before him, who being thus convented gave it under his hand, that he would never again preach within five miles of Rochester: and though Cosens saith he knowes no such man (which we think, upon good ground, is a lie,) yet can he deny that Woodman hath preached in his house? which is the thing asserted.

5. For that last part of the relation of Cosens going to Master Clares, &c. for uniformity sake, made a lie by Cretensis, because he was set upon it to blast all for lies;Cosens going to heare Mr Clare preach. I reply, that as the first part is confessed to be true, so is the last as true, though denyed; for Master Clare affirmes, he said he would complain of him; and let Cosens be think himself what he said of Master Clare, and he must confesse it. As for that argument Cretensis brings why he did not threaten to complain of him, and that the man dares not threaten to question any whatsoever, because 'tis his judgment, none ought to be questioned or troubled for their judgements in matters appertaining unto God: I answer, 'Tis a weak one, and it followes not; because the Sectaries principles and practices do not agree, they practising many things often wherein they professe contrary: How many Sectaries have we in these dayes, who plead for, and professe liberty of conscience, which yet have not only threatned godly Ministers and Christians for their consciences, but actually have brought them into trouble, and punished them severall waies? Surely Cretensis, if you had read Histories of the Church, both ancient and modern, you would have sound Hereticks and Sectaries, as Arians, Donatists, Anabaptists, Socinians, Arminians professing as Cosens here does, who yet when they have had opportunities, proved great persecuters of the Orthodox godly Ministers; and wee well know by many shrewd signes and instances, that if Cretensis and his abettors, who have so much pleaded for a Toleration, shall come once to get power in their hands, they will as much tolerate Presbyterians, as now they will to come into any place, office, employment Ecclesiasticall, Civill, or Military, where 'tis in their power to hinder them. And therefore Cretensis, you had need bring better Arguments to confute my Antapologie, (which your Sectaries give out you are upon); or else you will doe the p. 104Apologists little good either in matter of fact, or in answering the argumentative part of it.

6. Cretensis in his animadversions and inferences made upon my relation of the story of Cosens, not knowing who related it to me, nor the occasion of the relation, &c. yet in the close of his confutation of the story of Cosens, most falsly and wickedly, without fear or wit, brands him who related it to mee with such words as these, But who is Master Edwards godly orthodox Presbyterian Minister…? Is hee not such a one who works stoutly at the forge, and feeds both himselfe and the world with all manner of scandals and falshoods against the Independents without fear? Certainly, Cretensis throat is an open sepulchre, and the poyson of asps is under his lips. What shall be given unto thee, or What shall be done unto thee, thou false tongue? This passage against the godly Minister who told mee this story, fils up the measure of Cretensis rage, lying, and evill speaking; and hee could hardly have spoken more untrue words then these, whether hee consider the man himselfe, or the manner of his relating it. In one word, the Minister who related this story to me, is a reverend, learned, godly, humble, retired man, a man who hath been many yeers of good account in the Church of God, a Member also of the Assembly, and a man far from forging, or feeding himselfe and the world with all manner of scandals against the Independents, &c. and this Minister did not make it his businesse or work to tell mee this story, coming to mee, or ever intending to come: but I, going in London upon my occasions, this Minister accidentally being in a shop with a friend of his, a Citizen whom I knew also, I spake to them as I was going by, and they to mee; and so in the shop exchanging a few words, the Citizen asked me if my Book were come forth, or when it would: whereupon this Minister and I had some words about the subject of it, and falling into discourse, hee related this story to mee and the Citizen; which when I had it from him, the last sheet of my Book being either printing off, or quite printed off, I put it in a Postscript, as the Reader sees: and therefore let all the world judg what untruths Cretensis hath belched out against this reverend and worthy Minister. But Cretensis is a man that in all his Writings and Sermons falls upon all that come in his way, having no respect of age, place, gifts, sufferings, &c. if they be against his fond conceits and Sectaries.

And thus, good Reader, I have gone over all the particular materiall exceptions made against my Book entituled Gangraena, by Master Saltmarsh, Master Walwyn, and Cretensis; and I doubt not, but by this time, even by this briefer Reply, every indifferent Reader is satisfied, how unjust and false those outcries and clamours of lyes lyes, are, and how in them that Proverb p. 105is verified, A great cry, but a little wooll: little cause, but onelyonly the rage and madnesse of the Sectaries to see themselves and their wayes so laid open in the sight of the Sun. And yet I have not done with my Antagonists, but shall more fully anatomize and rip them up, and further justifie and cleer all things excepted against in Gangraena, which being lighter, are now passed over, or though spoken unto, need further amplification and illustration. In a word, there is nothing behinde untoucht, that either glances upon mee, or speaks for themselves and their partie; but I intend to speak to it fully, and am resolved (God sparing me life and opportunity) not to die in their debt. And I could now play the Rhetorician, and spend some leaves in running over all the Errours, Heresies, Blasphemies, Practices, Stories, &c. laid down in Gangraena, not so much as once offered to be disproved, though they be of persons and things here living, and acted in London, and neer at hand, and which Cretensis, with all his gatherings, intelligences, observations and presentations from Sectaries of severall sorts, Anabaptists, Independents, Seekers, &c. and of severall parts in the Kingdome, Kent, Essex, London, &c. hath been able to say nothing against; and might, going from one particular to another, triumph over Cretensis, stamping the superscription of Truth upon them, and ask him, What say you to the 84. and 85. Errours laid down in the Catalogue? Is it not true that such things were preached in London? Whether is not that which I have related of Paul Best true? Whether did not Master Burroughs and Master Greenhill preach bitterly against the Petition of many well affected Citizens for the setling of Government? And so I might goe through hundreds; and of all those facts, opinions, practices that these three men have not been able (though so willing) to except against, inferre, conclude, and flourish over Cretensis with his owne sword. There is no reasonable man, that considers the malignitie, wrath, &c. of Master Saltmarsh, Master Walwyn, but especially of Cretensis, against me and my late Book, and the opportunities they have had through their acquaintance with Sectaries of all sorts; besides the publick notice given of answering me, as appears by the intelligence and particulars brought in to Cretensis from severall places, to furnish him their Champion; together with the extreme eager desire of Cretensis taking all advantages against mee, making matter of confutation and lies of that which I am confident was never made by any Scholar in an Answer before, (as, the house a meeting for Sectaries; as, the not being able to put the Nominative case and Verb together, and such like) but wil think they have spoke the utmost they possibly could against my Book, and that of course some of the things drawn up and represented by the hand of Envie must needs be false: so that whereas Cretensis conceives, that now in his p. 106Answer hee hath informed the world how many lyes and untruths there are in Gangraena; the truth is, that hee and his fellow-sectaries have done it but faintly, and with the extreme dammage of their own cause: for all wise and unprejudiced men will acquit all the other particulars from the crimes and imputations of lies and falshood, and conclude them all true and certain; for surely, if there had been any hole to have been picked in them, either the malice, or the wit, or the industry, or one thing or other of Cretensis and his associates, would have found it out, and not have spared me: so that the very enemies bear winesse to the truth of the body of my Book, the things that are found fault with by them being but a spot here and there, a few in comparison, (if spots) and I may say of all the exceptions taken by my three Antagonists, supposing them to be mistakes, (though I have shewed the contrary) What are these among so many not excepted against, being but as gleanings to the vintage?

Cretensis, pag. 50. and in his last Section, winds up his Answer in speaking to the Reader, that though for the present hee hath given him onelyonly a taste of Master Edwards grapes, yet sufficient, hee presumes, to convince the Reader, that his vine is the vine of Sodom, &c. and professes that he hath … read one quarter of the Book as yet, nor knowes nor whether ever hee shall care to read it thorow or no: and then labours to possesse the Reader, that what hee hath not answered, others will very shortly: a few dayes (hee makes no question) will give the Reader more light to comprehend the darknesse of Gangraena; and prophesies, The day will come, and is even at the door, when there will be scarce one stone left upon another of all this false building, which will not be pull'd down by the hand of Truth: And when the servants of God shall have had the opportunity to wash off that durt and filth which Mr. Edwards hath cast upon them, Gangraena will be found a strumpet, yea, and of the race and linage of that great scarlet Whore, which corrupteth the earth with her fornication.

Reply. As for Cretensis saying, hee hath onelyonly for present given a taste of Master Edwards grapes, implying, hee could feed the Reader with whole clusters, and intimating hee hath a great deal more to say to my Book, as other passages expresse besides this, viz. pag. 38. I presume that Mistris Gangraena hath not as yet paid mee the tythe or tenth part of her forgeries, &c. I answer, I beleeve Cretensis hath said all hee possibly could against Gangraena; I doe not think hee left out any thing hee could object against it: Whosoever reads but his Answer, and observes his rage and heat, his playing at the smallest games, and picking of straws to finde matter against my Book to fill up six sheets with, railing and declaiming against it, will not think hee gave but a taste, or a tenth. But how could Cretensis say p. 107hee had given onelyonly a taste for the present, and not the tenth part, when as hee professes truely hee had not read one quarter of the Book then, neither knew whether hee should ever care to read it thorow or no? Could hee divine of what hee had not read, nor knew not whether ever hee should reade, that there was ten times more behinde? And besides, How could Cretensis, out of what hee knew not whether hee should ever read, promise the Reader to give him not onelyonly a taste, but abundance? Certainly Cretensis meant the far greatest part of his grapes promised the Reader, should be gathered by other hands, and be (as hee saith of the particulars detected already) observed by others, and presented to him: and after this rate of the farre greatest part of particulars observed by others, and presented to him, 'tis easie for Cretensis to give Answers; and I much wonder we have no more of them, but that he takes almost two yeers to give an Answer to the Antapologie. And no wonder, Cretensis going upon an implicite faith, making an Answer out of particulars observed by others, without reading one quarter of my Book, not seeing with his own eyes, but making use of a pair of Independent, Antinomian, Anabaptisticall, &c. spectacles to write with, the man is so much mistaken, and sometimes takes that to be great which is little, and that which is great hee cannot see at all. As for that Cretensis saith, that hee presumes by the taste hee hath given, hee hath convinced the Reader that my vine is the vine of Sodom, my grapes grapes of gall, my clusters bitter, &c. I beleeve every Reader who is not bewitched with the Independent Schismaticall way, is convinced, that Cretensis hath said enough to satisfie all men, that his vine is the vine of Sodom, that his grapes are grapes of gall, his wine the poyson of dragons, and the cruell venome of asps, and that generally all men say of his Answer, yea, some of his owne party cry out of it, that it is too bitter: But as for my Gangraena, though objectivè, the object about which the Book is exercised be the vine of Sodom, grapes of gall, poyson of Dragons, and the cruell venome of Asps, treating of and laying open the Heresies, Blasphemies and Practices of the Sectaries, which indeed are poysonous and venemous; yet subjectivè, the Discourse it selfe, and the way of handling those things, is healing and medicinall to cure the Reader of those stings and poysons, which by eating of those sowr grapes of the Sectaries they have contracted; and my Book is farre from being like the vine of Sodom, the poyson of dragons, that in writing of it I have plaid the part of a Physician, made a precious treacle and soveraigne antidote to cure and expell poysons, by correcting, qualifying, binding them, &c. laying open the Errours, Heresies, &c. their evill, danger, and discovering remedies and cures proper for them, p. 108which, were they taken, and the prescriptions followed, I am confident would prove the healing of these Nations.

As for Cretensis profession that he hath not read one quarter of the Book as yet; nor knowes whether he shall ever care to read it through or no: I reply, that Cretensis at once, and in one breath discovers himself to be both weak and proud, he shows his folly and horrible pride. First, his folly; for what wise man that had reason and common sense, though he could not Cretensis pag. 10.24. have * construed a peece of Latin, write true English, nor framed the structure of a period according to the common rules of Grammar, would have writ so? and truly this and other passages in this Answer, confirms me much in that opinion which many understanding learned Divines have had of Cretensis a great while, that he is no judicious rationall man (as his followers cry him up) but only a wordy Divine, a multitude of words, that's all; that being true of him which was said of Erasmus, that his writings were verba, non res; but of this folly of Cretensis, the Reader may remember what I have written page 39. of this Book; and let Cretensis ever take me so writing, and I will confesse my folly. Seconly, 'Tis horrible pride and arrogancie; what a proud passage is this, Cretensis thinks himself so great, and looks down with such disdain upon me, as that he knowes not whether ever he shall care to read my Book thorough or no, …lighting it as not being worth his reading, nor I worthy to carry his Books after him; this speech indeed is neer akin to that in page 15. Indeed if Independent Ministers had either the priviledge of ease to preach to the bare walls and pewes in their meeting places: The Independent Ministers are so taken up with preaching to great Congregations, and with the resort of great persons to their houses, and with the consultations they are admitted untill mid-night about great affairs; and particularly Cretensis of late, as 'tis talked every where in London, that he knowes not whether he shall ever care to read my Book thorough or no, or shall ever have leasure to do it; but Cretensis, let me tell you how much soever you slight my Books, and care not to read them thorough, as too much below you, yet there are your betters for all kind of learning, yeers, piety, that care to read thorough my Books, and blesse God for them; and though they be of as piercing deep judgements as Cretensis, yet could never find that non-sense, weaknesse of judgement, &c. which Cretensis ▪ speaks of so often. As for that Cretensis promises the Reader, that a few dayes (he makes no question) will give the Reader more light wherewith to comprehend my darknesse, implying as if more Answers were suddenly to come forth, to discover the falshood of matters contained in Gangraena. I reply, a few dayes are past, p. 109yea some weeks, between seven and eight, and yet there is none of Cretensis new-light come forth, no Answers disproving any one particular in my Book; there is a Book indeed of one Bacons come forth, who both in the Title page and Book speaks of my Gangraena, but he confesses the truth of what I speak of him, viz. his being put out of Gloster, his being received in a great mans house, and his going to Bristoll since the Parliaments taking of it; so that it seems by the confession of one of Cretensis …a…nts, all matters are not lyes which are mentioned in Gangraena; and yet before Master Bacons Book came forth, I was told confidently severall times (as the report of the Sectaries) that was one of my lyes, speaking of Master Bacons going to Bristoll, whereas he had never been out of London since the taking of Bristoll: But I suppose however Cretensis dayes are past, and nothing is come forth to comprehend my darknesse, yet I make no question but this Reply with the further Reply coming after will give light to the Reader to comprehend Cretensis …his darknesse. As to that passage of Cretensis, that the farre greatest part of the particulars detected, were observed by others, and presented to him; I Reply, though I have animadverted upon it already page 29. in Observation 9. and also in this present Section, yet I shall adde this, (that besides his great weaknesse in taking things upon trust, and making an Answer to a Book out of other mens collections▪ himself never reading one quarter of the Book) he here proclaims himself guilty of the great crime and transgression which in many places of his Answer he loads me with, and with all his railing Rhethorick aggravates against me, namely of persons resorting to him to furnish him with intelligence, his taking up and entertaining of reports, his publishing them to the world, wherein besides his contradicting other passages in his Answer, as that in page 6. nor doe I hold intelligence with any man to inform my self of his haltings, he shows himself faulty in laying snares of intelligence in many places, and holding correspondence with severall parts of the Kingdom to receive intelligence of the miscarriages and undue deportments of all such as are Anti-Independently given; and if it were not so, whence comes it that so many particulars detected and observed by others, were presented to him, and that Cretensis hath ready by him a yeer ago, a Manuscript in his hands concerning Master Edwards himself, discoursing his jugling; a story also of a Presbyterian Angel, together with a story of the Doctorate it self of the Assembly, yea that all sorts of Sectaries, and that from severall places have resorted to Cretensis with presents in their hands towards the perfecting of this goodly work, as Master Burroughs, p. 110Li…utenant Colonel Lilburn, Ki…in, Cosens, a friend of Master Ellis in London, &c. being like so many rivers … and emptying themselves into the Cretian Sea, where all these meeting make so many raging waves to beat upon and disturb the Ship of the Reformed Church; all these Sectaries … though distant from one another in places, opinions, yet as so many lines meet altogether in Master Goodwyn against the Presbyterians; and as in this, so in other particulars wherein Cretensis deeply charges me, he himself is most faulty, as in taxing me with immodest lascivious expressions, for printing a letter where an immodest fact is related (though for such a foul offence modestly expressed) when as Cretensis, as of himself, and as his own words (when free to have used any other) speaks of monthly courses, &c. more then once▪ expressions most immodest and uncivill. For that expression of Cretensis by that time the boughs of the trees are a little more withered, they will be broken off, the women will come and set them on fire. I answer, I suppose by this time the boughs of the tree, instead of being withered, doe flourish more, and are more fresh and green, and do here bring forth new fruit▪ and whereas Cretensis had for a … cast▪ dust and dirt upon this tree, my Reply like a good shoute of raine, hath washed all off, making it look pleasantly, smell sweet, and Cretensis Answer by that time I have done with it, it will not only be like boughs a little withered, and broken off, but like Saint Iudes Sectaries, a tree whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, and plucked up by the roots. As to those words of Cretensis, The day will come, and is even at the doore, when there will be a scarce one stone left upon another of all this false building, which will not be puld down by the hand of truth. I reply, for all Cretensis prophesying of such a day, and that even at the doore; there is no such day yet come, not any hand since Cretensis, having pull'd down one stone from this building, though it be now about two months ago since Cretensis threatned this; but the Reader may see the contrary is fulfilled this day, and that instead of pulling down this building of Gangraena, the building is enlarged a story higher, and in breadth also, by the addition of this second part of Gangraena; and Cretensis will finde Gangraena will bee so farre from being puld down, that other buildings of the same kinde will bee framed by it; and this first stone laid by mee, or first building will prosper into a rowe, a whole street before I and others have done with the Sectaries, whereas Cretensis Babels, built without any foundation, and daubed with untempered mortar, will fall down to the ground, and be as a refuge for lies, that fails, and is swept away as the Spiders Cobweb.

p. 111And lastly, to those words of Cretensis, When the servants of God shall have had the opportunity to wash off that dirt and filth which Master Edwards hath now cast upon them, Gangraena will be found a strumpet; &c. I reply, The most of those persons whom I have named in Gangraena, I durst not for all the world call them the servants of God thus publikely as Cretensis doth, lest I should be found guilty of strengthening them in their wicked errours and practices (but of my grounds in this, the Reader shall have a more full account in my second Reply): and therefore (meaning it of such) the servants of God shall have no opportunity to wash off that dirt and filth which I have cast upon them; for they that are such, as Clarkson, Webb, Wright, Hich, Denne, Nichols, L…m, Oats, Kiffin, Walwyn, Marshall, Ienney, Mistris A…eway, cum multis aliis, (I may say with the Apostle) serve not our Lord Iesus Christ but their own bellies, and their own lusts; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. But as for some few, among many whom I have named in Gangraena, as Master Burroughs, Master Greenhill, and some such, it may be they are the servants of God, and Saints, though wherein I have blamed them, they walk as men, and as carnall, and not as Saints; and can never wash off that dirt I have cast upon them (so is Cretensis phrase) without repentance, and that they will finde one day, when they shall come to be awakened from their wine. And therefore instead of Gangraena being found a strumpet, Cretensis will be found a lyar, and Gangraena a chaste Lady, and true Virgin; and it will appear (I doubt not, before it be long) when the time of the reigne of the Sectaries shall be over, and they no more heard of, unlesse it bee by way of a proverb and reproach, that then Master Edwards Gangraena shall be looked upon by all as a witnesse of the truth, even against Sectaries in the ages to come, and as a discovery of the wickednesse and vilenesse of the Sectaries of this time. And whereas Cretensis would make my Book of the linage and race of the great Woore corrupting the earth, &c. Gangraena is of a quite different nature, and contrary linage, being a great means (through the blessing of God) of preserving the earth from being corrupted and tainted by the fornications and poysonous principles of the Sectaries; the Book doing much good; as I could prove by plentifull testimonies of Letters written from many parts,I received a Letter last week out of the Country subscribed with …o hands of Godly Ministers testifying to my work▪ and earnestly intreating my constant persuance, with a promise that I shall not want what their prayers and endeavours can contrib…e to that work. A Letter from a godly Minister cut of Warwickshire written thus, M. Edwards Book does much good here. as also by speeches expressed p. 112of it: and if C…etensis would confesse, that's the true reason hee is so offended with it, because it hinders making of Proselytes, and so for want of growing up to such a number as they desig…e and hope for, they may misse of a Toleration, and so in the issue, a Domination, which is so much sought for by them, And for a conclusion of my Reply to Cretensis, I shall turne my selfe to speake a few words to Master Goodwin, and to the Reader. Master Goodwin, Consider sadly of what you have done in your Book Cretensis, how you are become guilty, and have made your selfe partaker of all the Heresies, B…asphemies, wicked practices I have spoken against, in pleading for all (without any distinction) as Saints, servants of God, and such like, and speaking against with envenomed malignity that necessary usefull Book as a very pest and plague, which I writ for discovery of Errours and erroneous persons, that so the Saints might take heed, and beware of them; and in which all godly orthodox, faithfull Ministers doe rejoyce, and blesse God for it.I have received severall Letters from particular Ministers in Essex bearing witnesse; and so Letters out of Kent to the same purpose, and from other places. O wretched man, to carry things so, as if Errours would doe no harme to mens soules, but a Book written against them, that will hurt and hazzard mens soules; which is all one, as if a man should say Strong poyson would doe no hurt, nor kill, but a precious Antidote will destroy and ruine mens bodies. And now, good Reader, I desire thee impartially and without prejudice to weigh Cretensis objections and exceptions against my Book, and my Answers, and then judge whether I have not wounded, and laid this great Goliah of the Sectaries (coming out in defiance against the Reformed Churches) upon his back; and whether God, who chuseth the weak things of the world to confound the things that are mighty; and things which are despised, to bring to nought things that are of esteeme, hath not made use of me, a man so vilified by the Sectaries, a poor weak thimble full of dust, by the wind strongly blowing this thimble full of dust into Cretensis eyes, to blinde him, and befool him. And yet I have not done with Cretensis, but let the Reader look for what's behind, viz. my fuller Reply; and what ever in this first is either omitted, or not so fully spoken unto, in that he may look to receive more satisfaction. And I no whit doubt, but that, as I have now (by Gods assistance) made a good beginning both defensive and offensive; so by the same good hand upon me, I shall in the next give so good an account, that I shal deal with this daring enemy, as little David with Goliah, stand upon him, and triumph over p. 113him, and give you his head upon the top of my sword: And in my next I intend to dresse him up, and set him out in all his ornaments and flowers, in his practices, opinions, and wayes of promoting them; in all which I shall render him and his name an abhorring to this and the following generations.

Since Cretensis answer, there is a Book come forth, written by one Mr. Bacon, which Book is answered by one Mr. Corbet, (the man whom in that Book hee so often speaks of) and it is abroad in print already: What I spake of him in Gangraena, hee in that Book confesses, as his being cast out of Glocester, and his coming to London, &c. speaking particularly of that which I touched only, and but in generall (as the Lords house in which hee lives.) And besides that, I heare one Web hath an Answer in the Presse to what I relate of him pag. 106, 107. which Answer, before it went to the Presse, by a providence came to my hand without ever seeking it, or indeed imagining that ever Web (such an Heretike and Blasphemer) durst have appeared in print, or been taken notice of to be in London, for feare of being questioned for those things I have written of him: But wee may see what sad times wee are fallen into, and that the Sectaries are grown fearlesse, that they dare come abroad and plead their desperate cause, as Master Saltmarsh, Walwyn; so now Master Bacon, and Web; which symptome, among many others, makes mee feare the night and darknesse is at hand, when as the wolves and the wild beasts dare come thus out of their dens; whereas when the Sun arises they go to their dens. The Psalmist tels us, Psal. 104.20, 22. Thou makest darknesse, and it is night, when all the beasts of the forrest do creep forth. The Sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them downe in their dens. Hence the Scripture cals wolves the wolves of the evening, Zeph. 3.3. and look as the Frogs croaking and making a noyse use to be in the evening, so the croaking of false Teachers resembled to wolves, the beasts of the forrest, and Frogs, presages the going downe of the Sun, and night coming. But because I purpose not to trouble my selfe with giving any formall answer to it by it selfe, I shall now give these Animadversions upon it: First, That Web confesses most of the things I relate of him; only hee saith of some of them, hee had recanted and disclaimed them; and I should not have upbraided him, but rejoyced in his conversion. But unto that I reply; Had not this Web, since his Recantation and Release, both in Citie and Countrey, vented many desperate things, and gone on in his hereticall wayes, I should never have mentioned them. Secondly, That this Web rancks himselfe in his Answer among the Independents, speaking of mee as being so against him out of my ill will to Independents; and I p. 114finde Iohn Bachiler, an Independent, not onelyonly (April 1. 1646.) setting his Imorimatur, but helping him in his Answer, mending severall things in the Answer: as for example, For those words I charge him with, that he should say, For him to say he was equal with Christ, was no robberie; in his Answer to that, Bachiler helps this Blasphemer, and takes part with him: as for instance, whereas Web justifies it, that Gods love is the same in every respect unto the Saints as unto Christ, and therefore a Saint may say he is equall with Christ, and count it no robbery; [in every respect] is blotted out by Bachiler. And VVeb further pleading he might say, The Saints were equall to Christ; next following these words of Webs, [As I conceive, the word of God to be my rule,] there is interlined under Bachilers hand these words, [Provided I meet with a faire and candid interpretation of my Words.] And so I could instance in divers other alterations: so that we may see the Independents will not lose any the most blasphemous, Atheisticall hereticall men, but further them, and joyne with them against the Presbyterians, licensing their Writings, helping them to conceale, and deliver more cautelously their dangerous opinions. Thirdly, for that which is related by me in Gangraena of Webs speaking so wickedly of the Scriptures, he denyes it not, but saith to this purpose, How could hee say so? for he should contradict himselfe in other things which he hath said and holds: But to that I answer, 'Tis no new thing for such men as he to say, and unsay, affirme and deny according to the companies they come in, and advantages they think they have. Fourthly, To that which I relate of him concerning those expressions of his, We might not say, God the Father, God the Sonne, God the holy Ghost, he makes some shuffling Answer; but I reply, he spake so, and I can produce good proof of that and all the rest. If a Committee of Parliament shall be pleased to take notice of it, and send for this Web, and proceed against him upon proof, I am ready to produce witnesses, and upon his owne confession and those witnesses to make proofe. OnelyOnly I desire the Reader to take good notice of one expression in his Answer to this head, which shewes the ignorance both of him and Bachiler in the very principles of Religion; and is not Bachiler a fit man in such a Kingdome as this, to bee a Licenser of Divinitie Bookes and Controversies, who besides that hee is no Minister, nor well studied man, is such an Ignoramus as this clearely discovers him to bee? Web saying hee acknowledges the Trinitie, the Father, Sonne, and Holy Ghost, hath these words, That hee acknowledges the Father is the Sonne, and the Holy Ghost, and to that purpose; whereas wee are taught from the Scriptures by all Orthodox Divines, that though everie Person be God, as the Father is God, the Son is God, p. 115and the Holy Ghost is God; yet the Father is not the Son, nor the Father is not the Holy Ghost; nor the Son the Father, nor the Holy Ghost. Now Bachiler passes this, and though he mended many other passages in Webs Answer putting in words in some places, blotting out words, and changing some expressions for others, yet hee let this passe without any correction or note upon it; which no man can conceive to proceed from any thing else but profound ignorance. And that the Reader may know I speak these things upon good ground, I perused this Answer after it was licensed with Master Bachilers hand, and compared the hand of Imprimatur, Iohn Bachiler, with the hand where other words were put in, and found it the same hand, and writ out with my hand, severall amendments made by Iohn Bachiler, which I have by mee in writing, and then subscribed my hand under them, with the day of the month when I extracted them out of the Originall Copie; and one being with mee, who was a witnesse of all this, I also intreated his hand to attest it, which hee willingly did: all which I can produce to satisfie any man who desires it.

And for the winding up of all I have to say by way of Reply to Mr. Saltmarsh, Mr. Goodwine, &c. in vindication of my Gangraena, by this time, the Reader may see what to thinke, if among so many hundred particulars which are laid downe by me of Errours, Heresies, Blasphemies, Stories, &c. with so much variety, such a venemous virulent man, picking and chusing, catching and snatching, having Intelligence, and great resort to him from Sectaries of all sorts, and out of severall parts, as Essex, Kent, &c. could yet finde so few things to question in Gangraena, (which yet also are justified and made good;) what must the whole body of the Booke be, which is not so much as touched, either by Cretensis, or any of the rest? And that which alone may satisfie any rationall man that there is too much truth in Gangraena, is this, that I have never been called in question to make the things good. I have beene informed from good hands, that some of the Sectaries have had meetings, consultations, and severall debates about my Book, what to doe in it, whether to complaine, or what else; and I am confident if they were not afraid that things would bee found too true, and very foule, and upon the through examination might hazzard the danger of bringing an old house upon their heads, and the punishing of many, they would before this time have tried all their friends, and party, to see what they could have done against mee:

Having finished my Reply to Cretensis, Master Saltmarsh and Master Walwin, as before it I gave the Reader a fresh, and farther Discoverie of Errours, Heresies, Practices of the Sectaries; So I shall finish this book with matters p. 116of that kind, laying downe more Errours, Heresies, Blasphemies, Stories, Letters, concerning the Sectaries, concluding all with a few Corollaries drawne from the whole Book. And first, I shall add other dangerous Errours come lately to my hand; and so the first of these Errours in this latter part of my Book is the **The 11. errour specified in the former part of this book, is in the Catalogue of Errours contained in the first part of Gangraena, which sl…pt me before I was aware: and therefore upon comparing of both together, I put it out, and reckon not that, but make these Errours to begin here at number 23. which otherwise should have been number 24.23 Errour.

23. That Saints are justified by the essentiall righteousnesse of God, and not by Christs obedience.

For the full proofe of this, I will give the Reader (verbatim to a tittle) a passage taken out of a Letter written by a godly Minister in Bristoll, to a godly Minister here in London, wherein this Minister writing to his friends that things are prettie well here, and speaking of his owne preaching there, saith, One of the greatest rubs in the Towne, is the br…aching of a mad errour concerning the justification of Saints by the essentiall righteousnesse of God, and not by Christs obedience, which some do hold, and expresse with a world of vanitie and contempt of Christ.

**Osiander publicè in Schola propon…t, nos sola essentiali Dei justitia justos esse: essentiali ejus vita vivere vel victuros esse: essentiali ipsius gloria glorificari; essentiali illius charitate ad diligendum Deum & proximum propter ipsuminflammari, & gravissimè errare omnes qui putent aliâ re quam solo uno & vivo Deo Patre, Filio, Spiritu sancto nos posse justificari, vivificari, glorificari: & glacie frigidiora docere qui doceant nos tantum propter remssionē peccatorum reputari justos: & non etiam justitiam Christi essentialem & divinam perfidem in nobis habitantis, vit. Osiand. pag. 228.Andreas Osiander an acute and great Divine, who lived in Luthers time, held such an Errour, though not expressed with that vanitie and contempt of Christ, as these Sectaries do now; concerning which opinion of Osiander, and the great abilities that were in him, and his way of managing that and other opinions, Schollars may be further satisfied by reading Osianders life written by Melchior Adamus, and Schlusselburgius in his Catalogue of Heretikes, De Secta Osiandrist.

24. When either of the parties married is asleepe, the other is free of the bond of matrimony, sleep being in a kind naturall death for the time, and by death the bond of matrimony is null; so that if a woman should have to do with any other man, her husband being asleep, she committeth not adulterie.

25. That the Apocrypha Books, and particularly the Book of Esdras ▪ are Canonicall and the Scriptures, as well as the Canonicall Books generally owned by all to be Scripture.

26. That the people of God are a free people, p. 117and what they do they should do freely and voluntarily, and not be assessed and rated by the Parliament, compelled to pay rate upon rate, assessment upon assessment.

27. That the **The Sectaries who call themselves the Saints and beleevers, if they have husbands and wives that will not turn Sectaries, they may leave their owne because they are unbeleevers, and joyne themselves to other womens husbands, and other mens wives: I read in a Letter subscribed by W I. and E.I. Wi…liam Ienny and Elizabeth Ienny, written out of Holland to one in London: Deare friends, as you have cast off many Antichristian yoaks, so proceed to cast off all, a chiefe vvhereof are unequall marriages.Saints and Beleevers, who have husbands or wives that are unbeleevers, they may put them away and take others, because God gave wives to be a meet help, and the Saints are to proceed to cast of all Antichristian yoaks, a chiefe whereof are unequall marriages.

28. That sin is but a shadow.

29. The promises belong to sinners as sinners, not as repenting, or humbled sinners.

30. Faith is truly and simply this, a being perswaded more or lesse of Christs love.

31. That there is no other Seale but the Spirit, and for the elements consecrated to be Signes and Seales to us in the Sacraments, they are not, but emptie things and of no effect.

32. That Christ is Baptisme to us, the outward signe needleesse.

33. No Christian Magistrate hath power of inflicting capitall punishment, and taking away of the life of any member of a Church, unlesse first he be cast out of the Church, and so delivered to the Secular Power, no, what ever his offence should be, though murther or treason.

34. That place of Scripture, Hee that sheddeth mans bloud, by man shall his bloud be he shed, belongs to Moses his Disciples, and not to Christs Disciples, and Christians have nothing to do with it.

In my last Book I gave the Reader an account of many of the practices of the Sectaries, both more generally and particularly: and I instanced in twentie eight practices: Now, though there are many more behind, yet because my Book is both expected suddenly to come forth, and is enlarged beyond my first intention, I will only instance in two.

1. They do deny and professe to many that they are no Independents, no Antinomians, no Anabaptists, but they are thus and thus, and will be so and so; and these are but reproachfull names given out, and cast upon honest, godly, conscientious men by the Ministers and Presbyterians, as Puritan and such like, were in former times by the Bishops; and of this I could give the Reader many proofs in printed Books of the Anabaptists, Independents, p. 118Antinomians, as such Churches falsly called Anabaptists, &c. And now there is never an Independent in England, if you will but take what themselves say, though they be such who stickle, act, work, vote, and by all wayes, in all places, where they have any thing to do, promote, side with Independents, Anabaptists, &c. yet they will confidently say they are no Independents, they are of no Church way, nor know not what it is; nay, some of them will say they are Presbyterians in their judgement, or at least do wait and stay to see what the Results of the Assembly and Parliament after them will be; and yet there is many of these men, that let any person or thing come in nomination and competitition, that concerns Presbyterie, and they will favour, promote, further Independencie (be it right or wrong) and on the contrarie discountenance, hinder, obstruct the Presbyterians, wherein they just walk in the steps of the Bishops and their creatures, who upon all occasions dsclaimed Poperie, Arminianisme, and when Papists and Arminians were spoken of, they would be hot against them, and were against Poperie properly so called (as the expression was) and against Arminius (meaning those points Arminius held about the government of the Church) not those of Grace and Free-will, &c. and yet these Bishops and their Chaplains preferred Arminians and persons Popishly affected, licensed Books tending that way, brought them oft when in trouble, would remember those who preached against Poperie and Arminianisme; and it was observed, and I have been told it by a man of place in those times, who disliked such wayes, that when the Arch-Bishop blustered and spoke most against any Priest or Papist, and for the Church of England, then the next newes they were sure to hear of, was a Release; and whether there be not too many such in these times, who will not be accounted Independents, Anabaptists, Antinomians, that yet countenance their Books, are familiar with such, being all in all with them, bringing them off when in question, sitting hard on the skirts (when there is any opportunitie) of all those who have complained, or been active against the Sectaries, I leave to all to judge.

2. Some of the Sectaries when they have been questioned, and in trouble, or been by some Ministers convinced, that they had nothing to say for themselves and their way, have and will do any thing for the present, as recant, confesse their Errours, say they are convinced and satisfied, promise never to go about preaching or dipping any more; and yet afterwards, when free, and come to their companions, go on in their wayes, both against their hands, promises, professions; and of this there are many examples and instances among us, as of a Sectarie an Emissarie sent into Northamptonshire, being for his Doctrines, separated meetings, affronting a Minister in the p. 119Pulpit, complained of by some Ministers, and questioned by the Magistrates, gave it under-his hand to forbeare his course, and return home; yet afterwards goes to other parts of the Countrey, and drawes the people into houses, preaching to them, &c. So some Sectaries of Lams Church, or their great Associaces, coming into Essex, to corrupt the people; and some of the Ministers dealing with them upon some of their Tenets, convinced them so, as that they openly blessed God for that dayes work, and the light they had received, even weeping for joy; and yet presently afterwards going on their progresse to seduce at another Town in the same Countie (some hint or notice being given of their late conviction) they said they wept to think how nigh the Ministers were come to them; and so I might give instance in Clarkson professing against the dipping to get out of prison, and as soon as he was loose turning Seeker; and so in … b; but I must take off my hand; only this fulfils what is spoken in the Scriptures of Heretikes, That they have their consciences seared with an hot iron, and sin, being condemned of themselves.