A Second Parcel of Objections Answered, Treatise · Answer 1
The Answer to the first Letter.
Reverend Sir!
YOur Letter dated Febr. 9. I received not till Febr. 16. on saturdaie about noon, and I willingly confess my self really beholding to you for the ingenuitie and freedom which you use towards mee in it, and wish that God would put it in the heart of everie one of my brethren that find themselves grieved at anie thing which they finde in me, to do as you have don. For I hope that God will never suffer mee to neglect anie admonition which shall bee given mee by anie, without a due reflection upon my self to examine my spirit in his sight, by the light which it bring's with it, or without a sollicitous care to give just satisfaction to everie one, whom I may see upon discoverie that I have offended through weakness: for hee was an Apostle that said, In manie things wee offend all, Jam. 3. (not excluding himself) and added, If anie man offend not in a word, hee is a perfect man: I am not conscious to my self of anie conceit of perfection in anie thing which I have atteined; therefore I shall willingly take notice of the first rule which you laie down, That the less self-confidence and abounding in our sens wee use in things of a doubtfull nature, the more agreeable our waie will bee to the rule of love; and the more safe will our proceedings bee. By this rule I shall heartily desire to bee judged; and if I have failed by beeing too confident in anie thing, my heart doth much deceiv mee, if I shall ever bee ashamed to confess a fault, if made known unto mee. I shall therefore desire to know the passages wherein self-confidence doth appear, that I may bee humbled for them, and rectifie them upon a further examination of my heart.
Your second point of admonition is, That I take that pro confesso which is in question; and that I make that which is not granted to bee the basis and bottom of all my argumentation. Which if I do, I confess I am out of the waie. But truly, by what you represent, it doth not yet appear to mee that I have don so: for you saie that I have pre-supposed this as the basis of all my argumentation, namely, That the continuance of K. and Lords is inc…sistent with Salus Populi: which to my best understanding o… …y self in what I have said or meant to saie, I neither have said, nor intended to saie; and I would bee beholden to you, or those other brethren who make that observation, to let mee see the ground of that assertion in anie thing which I have said. For I will clearly profess, that I do not think that there is anie inconsistencie between the Salus Populi, and the beeing of a King and of Lords in a Nation; if they behave themselvs not as Tyrants, to rule all at will, and without Laws: which are in the people's right to chuse and settle for themselvs and their Kings; and it is their King's onelie Prerogative, and the dutie of their Lords, to see those Laws observed: for to mee it is clearly against the Law of God and nature, that anie King or Lords should bee Magìs soluti Legibus, then anie of the meanest Subjects; or de jure bee less reproveable then they are. This beeing then my cleer judgment, that Kings and Lords are officers in a National sociëtie appointed by God through men, to see Laws kept, it never came into my minde to think that their beeing in a Nation should bee inconsistent with the safetie thereof: and if you willingly grant, that all humane Constitutions or Ordinances of men, as the Apostle call's Kings, must give place to Salus Populi, I suppose, you and I shall verie little disagree about the Tenure of Kings and Lords; therefore when in the close of this admonition you saie, that this is altogether in question, truly I understand not how it come's to bee a question at all between us, or wherein I have given you a ground to think so; nor do I understand well what is meant by the words which follow thereupon, viz. And was otherwise determined by the major part of the Commons (when the Hous was full and free) who are our onelie competent Judges in things of this nature. I saie, I know not well what you mean by the thing which was otherwise determined: for if I dissent not from you in this, then nothing was otherwise determined; as to my sens in this matter, then what you agree to. But if you would intimate, that the Hous when it was (in your sens) full and free, did determine that there should bee a King and Hous of Lords, remaining with the Hous of Commons in this Nation, as a lawful Government in their joint relations, according to the fundamental constitution of the State; if this bee your meaning, I fully grant it, That once it was so determined by both Houses, and by the major part of the Commons, who were your competent Judges in things of this nature. And yet now wee see it is again otherwise determined by another partie of the same Commons, who declare themselvs to bee a full and free Hous (of which assertion now they are the onelie competent Judges) and according to their determination nothing is generally asserted, and in Thesi, That Salus Populi, and a King and Lords are inconsistent; but onelyonly in Hypothesi, and particularly, That at this present, there is an inconsistencie of a King and Hous of Lords with the safetie of this People: which how true or fals it is, ought not to bee disputed, becaus it cannot bee determined by you or mee; for it depend's upon the cognizance of circumstance; whereof I conceiv none of our coat are competent judges, nor anie others that are in places of subjection; but onelyonly those that are betrusted with the higher Powers, and are about the management of their places of Trust. And if it cannot bee denied, that those that have made the alteration of the Government, were persons betrusted with power able to do what they did, and did it in the Management of their places of trust, according to the best of their understanding, for the safetie of the People, I dare not take upon mee to bee their judges, but must leav them to him under whom they pretend to stand; and must acknowledg that the alteration is of God, whose ordinatie cours it is to do, by a minor part, and by weak means, that which a major part of the world, and the greatness of the strength thereof, is not able to do. And if I perceiv that a matter is clearly determined by those whom hee hath emploied, and who are in power to manage publick affairs by their places; although it may bee carried contrarie to my private sens and exspectation, yet I see no warrant for mee to take upon mee to make any other determination of the matter in my thoughts, then God hath don by them who have the management of his Power; nor can I see how it is lawful for anie man who cannot bring his thoughts to close with that which hath been don by others, under whose protection hee is obliged to live, to refuse to do things in themselvs lawful, just, and undeniably tending to Common safetie, onelyonly upon this account, becaus such things are commanded by men, whom they judg to have don that which is amiss, and beyond the line of their power. If they who presume to judg so, were by anie right of God or men made judges of their actions, or able to call them to an account thereof before competent judges; or in a condition to stand free, and in no need of their protection, somthing, as I conceiv, might bee said for their practice: but when men can pretend to nothing of all this, but are meer Subjects, and under a Power which undoubtedly is Supreme over them; under a power in full possession of all places of trust about them, and in a capacitie to manage the same, for the good of those that do well, and for the punishment of those that do evil; Now, I saie, for men, when things are so, to stand out and to resist such powers, not in things of an unlawful, but of a most commendable, lawful, and necessarie nature in themselvs, and to think to bee obliged to do so for conscience sake, is to mee I confess, an extreme great Paradox in the profession of Christianitie, as it is an unpartial and conscionable walking before God in conformitie to his will. And if this is not the present case wherein som Ministers do stand in opposition to the present Powers, I would bee glad to bee rectified; and you will do mee a favor to shew mee wherein I do mistake either the publick or their private case in this matter.
The third matter of admonition is: That I seem not to deal charitably and compassionately with those who through tendernes of conscience, in reference to Oaths and Covenants, are afraid to engage this waie (though they engage to live quietly and obeie in lawful things) by an owning of the Autoritie; and this uncharitablenes you charge upon mee from my expressions in pag. 21. of my Considerations, where I seem to saie, That such should have no protection or other benefit of Law. If I have said so of such persons, and to the end that they should bee deprived of protection, and of the benefit of equal justice; I confess it would bee somwhat rigorous and inconsistent with the spirit of compassion and charitie. I am sure it was not in my design to deprive any tender conscience of anie equitable favor which may bee shewed unto them, nay I have professedly and sincerely engaged my self, to use all my interest in those that are in places of power, to procure this unto them, as you may see more at large in the Reproposals, pag. 18. and 19. In the Paragraphs, which in the margent are marked for an Answer to the seventh and eight Sect. of the Proposals: and as I there have professed, so I have hitherto uprightly endeavoured; but as for that which you alledg out of the Considerations, pag. 22. of the second and third Edition, (for in the first Edition, it is page 24.) I shall desire you to consider the matter and scope of that which I saie in that place; and if then you look upon the principle, which I had before (in page 16. of the same Editions) as a ground of Justice in this Case, perhaps you will see caus to excuse mee from the uncharitableness, which you charge upon mee, as towards tender Consciences; for there I speak concerning an objection against the subscribing of the Engagement, taken from the apprehension of offending godlie people by subscribing of it; my scope is to answer that Objection upon this presupposal, that, hee who take's it, is not, as to his own Conscience, scrupled at the taking of the Engagement; but is to bee swaied meerly by his consideration of others: here then to such a one I saie, that caeteris paribus (for this is expresly supposed in the proposal of the Case) there is more caus to apprehend a danger of offence in not subscribing, then in subscribing; becaus there are more offences (even three to one) in the ballance, in case of not subscribing: for here I have caus as well as there to apprehend the offence, not onelyonly of manie godlie brethren, but also of Superiors, and of my self in point of safetie; and these two last offences I join in this, that the Magistrate to whom I refuse to give an assurance of my fidelitie, may take that refusal, as a just caus given him to denie mee necessarie protection and safetie. For I suppose that the Rule is without all exception, that Protectio trahit Allegianciam; & vice versâ Allegiancia Protectionem & è contra: now whether this bee the same case which you charge upon mee, I shall leav it to your second thoughts to consider; for here I presuppose my self not at all scrupled in my Conscience, but to bee swaied by meer outward considerations of dangers: and that amongst other dangers I might justly apprehend this; that if I will not shew my self faithful to the Magistrate, who is over mee, I may fear to bee deprived of the benefit which otherwise I might reap from his office which is necessarie protection.
As for the seeming Contradiction mentioned in your fourth exception, you will easily of your self reconcile it, and perceiv your mistake, if you construe my words right, and leav not out the additional claus, put in of purpose to limit the approbation, the ratifying Consent and the obligation towards the present establishment, which I mean to declare by my subscription; the claus which you have left out in your quotation of my words (which make's them seem to you contradictorie to themselvs) is this; But thus far onelyonly as I have said. Construe then the whole period by a little transposition of their words in their order, thus, I mean to declare, by my Subscription, my approbation of my ratifying consent unto, and my obligation towards the present establishment; but onelyonly thus far as have said. viz. in the three paragraphs immediately going before, wherein I limit in the first, the approbation, in the second, the ratifying consent, and in the third, the obligation towards the establishment: to shew, that although I think not my self bound up by my subscription of the engagement, to the particulars mentioned in the Proposals, which are said to bee different from the Duties, which Subjects owe to Superiors; yet I am willing to acknowledg som kinde of approbation of ratifying consent, and of obligation to the establishment included in the subscription; viz. such as is agreeable to those duties, and such as I formerly had described, although then I will not grant, that the subscription to the words of the engagement doth imploie those Consequences, whereunto the Proposers would strain them, which they saie are opposite to their Oaths and Covenants: yet I refuse not to admit of som other Consequences which I limit, and declare to bee consistent with the Oaths and Covenants; the particulars inferred upon the Subscription by the Proposers, I saie, are things which go beyond a clear and known dutie; and I conceiv, that the words of the Engagement give no ground to interpret the Act of Subscription so; but that I may notwithstanding this rejection of those particulars, infer other particulars of the same kinde, agreeable unto a Dutie upon the same Act of Subscription, is nothing of Contradiction, as to my understanding, nor I hope will bee to yours when you shall consider better of it; and shall not leav out the adversative particle, and the claus which refer you to the limitation, which I think should bee heeded about those inferences.
The fifth thing which you offer, is the hard censure of want of sinceritie, you think is pronounced against all those, that can acquiesce in nothing; but in such a Declaration, as shall bee made either by themselvs, or their Superiors to their content; but if you look well to my words, you will finde also here a cleer mistake of my meaning; for my aim is not to speak of all those that have anie doubts or scruples about this busines; as if none of them were sincere, that will or cannot acquiesce in anie thing els but in such a Declaration; I saie, my words speak not indefinitely of all such; but they express onelyonly these proposers. For I saie distinctly, that in the proposers aim will appear no sinceritie in reference to these Proposals, if there is nothing, but this that will content them; becaus in their Proposals they seem by offering at a Treatie, and by desiring to have matters of doubt debated, and reconciled, to seek a rational waie of satisfaction to themselvs. Now saie I, when this waie shall bee offered to them, and entered upon, if they then will not follow it ingenuously; but will stand peremptorily upon their own preconceived terms, and agree to nothing, but what they themselvs have fancied, must bee declared; In this case I saie it is evident, that the aim of the Proposers in the matter of their proposals, is not sincere towards the procurement of a reconciliation, and a just waie of satisfaction, which they seem to desire; if you observ then that you mistake the Case by your not heeding the particular Subject whereof I speak, and the presupposals which I laie as the ground of that Censure; I suppose you will absolv mee from uncharitableness in this matter; for truly I believ manie to bee sincerely scrupled; and yet so weak that without making or receiving a Declaration in their own terms, they cannot bee satisfied; nay, I have met with som such. God forbid, then I should condemn them all for this, to have no sinceritie in their scruples; but if men make proposals of waies to have their Scruples taken away, and then will not at all observ the same; but without all rational and ingenuous proceeding will peremptorily prescribe their own terms to others; I think it no uncharitableness to saie, that such men in making such proposals have no sinceritie, and that this is my meaning in that passage; if you look over it again, I make no doubt you will finde it to bee so.
The sixt Admonition doth compare that which I saie of the Proposers, in reference to the continuance of their Proposals, page 29. with what they might saie of mee in reference to my late papers; as for the expressions which I have used in that place, I shall not stand to justifie them; I shall rather confess that they should have been spared, or otherwise delivered; for when I look upon them, and compare them with the design which I had in that last Section, I finde that I am carried further thereby then I did purpose to proceed; for my purpose in the later part of that Section, was not directly to charge the proposers with anie politick design, but onelyonly to let them see, as by waie of Admonition, how far both the matter and the contrivance of the proposals might bee liable to such an interpretation; if anie would give waie to suspiciousness, which I do iteratively profess my self to bee free from, and through charitie unwilling to entertein: yet upon the supposal, that it is possible som such thing might bee in the minde of som of the Proposers, I would shew the waie how even in that Case they might receiv satisfaction; but the expressions which you have noted; are I perceiv more then this design come's to; for they rise up to a positive, and direct charge of that where of I intended onelyonly to give by waie of supposition, a warning, as of that which possibly might bee. Thus I observ by my self, that when our spirits dwell upon objects of evil surmises, although it maie bee for a good and harmless aim, yet they may easily bee heated above their just measure, and lose their waie towards the end of edification, which cannot bee followed otherwise then in the Spirit of Love. As for my papers, if anie will examine them, so as to finde out the arguments, by which it maie bee probably suspected, that my aim is rather to pleas a prevailing partie, then to advance Peace and Truth in righteousnes towards all, without partialitie, I shall not take it ill at his hands; but rather thank him, and blessing God for his brotherlie care, trie my heart, and judg my thoughts by the occasion thereof, which is all that I would have the proposers do, about the matter whereof I intended to give them warning.
As for the last matter, which you mention out of page 21. of the Reproposals, that even good men are too subject to admit of self-mixtures in their best actions; and that I am not to bee exempted from this weakness, no more then others; I shall freely confess it, to bee a truth, and declare moreover, that when I wrote that period of the discours, I was not without that verie consideration of my self; and therefore I did set it down the rather to bee a Caution for my self; least I might neglect the observation of mine own spirit, and cours in these matters wherewith I have begun to meddle, which I declare to meddle withal for this onelie purpose; that I maie hold forth the waie, how to seek impartially peace by a rule, and to follow holiness with all men, without which no man shall see the Lord. I thank you then for putting mee in minde of this my condition, and hope that God will enable mee to observ also the rest of that, which you suggest in the close of this admonition.
To that which you add in shutting up these matters which you have represented; I shall not replie much, onelyonly should bee sorrie, that those fears, you speak of, should have anie fundamentum in re, more then in the tenderness of your fear: I can truly saie, that my labors, according to the best of my skill, do tend to prevent that, which maie heighten the heat of the Magistrate's indignation against the truly godlie, by setting before them the Rules of an unblameable walking, and by discovering the dangers of a deviation from the same; therefore to let them see the faults, in which som manifestly are taken, and which may bring guilt upon all, that they may avoid, prevent, and rectifie the same, is no unfriendlie office; nor can the discoverie of failings, which sheweth the Caus with the Cure, make anie breaches wider, but I conceiv that a thorow-searching is the onelie sound waie of healing, and closing of our wounds. I can saie with a good conscience, that I have all along endeavored, upon all occasions, to cast water upon the heats of both sides, lest they might break out into a flame; and that I have sollicited, and will sollicite a moderation towards tender Consciences with the best of my industrie: but the violence of som tumultuously-clamorous spirits spoil's all.
The Paragraph which begin's with a consideration of the generaltie of the Church of Scotland; and end's with a second complaint of my censuring all with unsinceritie, that take not the Engagement, is either assented unto for the main, or hath been rectified in that, wherein the mistake lies by that which hath been said heretofore; onelyonly this I would have observed, that although I will not slight the judgment of anie Church, but think reverently of all, yet, that the general opinion of no Church, far less of a forreign Church ought so to bee regarded, as to swaie anie man's judgment concerning the Civil Sanctions of anie State in outward matters: for in such Cases everie mans Reason, and the Relations under which hee live's, must guid his Conscience to the knowledg of his Dutie; and what ever is don upon anie other consideration, or implicit concurrance with the generalitie of others, doth ordinarily becom a snare to the Conscience.
Lastly, the Arguments which you use, to perswade mee not to laie anie more load on those, who are already sinking under the burden of doubts and perplexities, I do consider as true motives to that dutie which you press upon mee, whereunto, by God's grace I purpose not to bee wanting henceforth, although I am not yet made to see, that heretofore I have been guiltie of that Charge, which this exhortation doth presuppose mee liable unto: but I can easily, without trouble of minde, God bee thanked, bear with more then such surmises, and Censures amount unto; if I can but gain thereby an unprejudiciate hearing of that, which hereafter I may saie towards the easing of those that are burdened with the troubles outwardly, and doubts inwardly, which they occasion to themselvs, by walking either without, or contrarie to a Rule; for give mee leav to saie the truth, that in the disquirie of these things which are agitated I pretend; truly I intend, and really endeavor to think nothing; far less to saie, or act anie thing without a clear rule; and if anie time I can give you no account of that, which I saie or do, by a Rule which hath led my thoughts to bring forth those speeches and actions, I hope I shall bee assisted with grace, patiently to bear the blame which I shall deserv for so doing; I give you therefore free leav to call mee to an account; for I know I must answer one daie at a greater tribunal then yours, and I count it a small matter to bee judged by men; it doth not trouble mee at all; yet I shall never despise the judgment of anie that may reflect upon mee; for I conceiv, that God doth speak unto mee by everie one who is conscionable, and take's notice of mee, that I maie bee the more sollicitous to approve my waie unto him; As I therefore am very willing to bear the word of the exhortation in the dutie, and motives which you laie before mee; so I shall intreat you to do the like, in that which I shall briefly represent unto you. First, let mee intreat those who desire the hand of autoritie not to bee heavier upon them, then as yet it hath been (for as yet I know of nothing don to anie) not to provoke Autoritie, but to diswade those, that set themselvs to incens the people against their rulers in their pulpits; one turbulent spirit in this waie will procure more wrath to all, then ten intercessors can allaie; for such men make charitable intercessors ashamed to open their mouth towards the Magistrate, seeing they are manifestly seditious. Can a Magistrate bee perswaded to suffer himself to bee trampled upon? Moderate the fierce non-subscribers in the Citie and Countrie from beeing injurious, and I am confident God will caus them to finde a reciprocation of love from Autoriti…. Secondly, let those who are not turbulent, and finde themselvs burdened, and pinched with straits, bee entreated to condiscend to the use of conscionable, and rational means of easing themselvs, which by aimable Treaties and Conferences rightly ordered may bee brought to pass; and what aversness hath been hitherto in som, against this waie of finding eas (though they have been begged to it) I am loath to relate: but if it had been duly enterteined, I am sure mistakes might have been rectified, which have heightned men's spirits, and brought us to extremities.
You maie perceiv, that my heart is enlarged towards you for your candor; the Lord grant us the conduct of his spirit, to make use of each other's good inclinations to allaie heats and jealousies; whereunto, although I have offered my self with all the candor and humilitie that I could imagine, to bee required of God, or acceptable unto men; yet I have not been able to obtein anie reciprocation from anie of the Brethren here in London, who differ in judgment about the present Engagement; not so much as one meeting, to bee able to speak together, though with much earnestness desired by mee, and whether the iniquitie (as I conceiv) of this and som other unchristian usages from the brethren, hath not a litle distempered mee, when I wrote the last piece, whereat you are now offended, I cannot well tell; but when I call my self to an account of ym thoughts, it seem's som such leaven did lie then at the bottom, and was stirred to a paroxism of fermentation which brought up som froth: but God is able to turn all to the best, if wee despise not one anothe'rs admonitions, but receiv them as in his presence, and give them as in the name of Christ in his love: if therefore you will let mee hear from you again, and let the other Brethren, whom I am sorrie to have offended, for want of due consideration of all tempers, know, what I have said for their and your satisfaction, you will oblige mee in the bowels of Christ, more and more to approve my self,
Sir, Your faithful and affectionate Servant for the Gospel of Peace and Truth JOHN DURIE. Westminster Febr. 21. Anno 1649/50.