The Journals of Parliaments, Journal 8 (2 of 3)

The Journals of Parliaments · Journal 8 (2 of 3)

p. 167And after him M^r Snagge, and far after him indeed, either for order, proof, or matter, he entred into the discourse of Strickland's Articles, and seemed to maintain them; this namely, not to kneel at the receiving of the Communion, but rather, if a Law hereof should be made, to lye prostrate, to shun the-old Superstition; or otherwise to set every man at liberty, and in this behalf to do according to his Conscience and Devotion, he judged it to be nothing derogatory or contrary to the Prerogative. And the directions he thought fit to be left out of the Book, which should be a Law, &c.

After which Arguments it was upon the question agreed, That a Petition should be made by this House unto the Queens Majesty, for her Licence and privity to proceed in this Bill, before it be any further dealt in.

The Bill for the Commission of Sewers was read the third time, and after some Arguments passed upon the Question, and was sent unto the Lords by M^r Treasurer and others.

The Bill against Licences and Dispensations, granted by the Archbishop of Canterbury, was put to the question, Whether it should be read or no? It was over-ruled in the affirmative, and had thereupon its first reading. After which M^r Alford (although a Bill be not usually spoken unto until after the second reading) spake against the Bill, and endeavoured to prove, that Licences for Marriages in some cases might be needful, and that Dispensations also for non-residence might upon some occasion be of great necessity, as if a Minister should be imployed upon some Foreign Ambassage, or other matter of great weight.

M^r Yelverton much disliked, as it should seem, M^r Alford's Speech, and spake very vehemently in maintenance of the Bill, alledging, that, as he thought, no good Christian could be against it; in respect that by the very words of the Bill it appears, that it was only framed for the suppression of such Licences and Dispensations, as were contrary to the Word of God.

M^r Dalton spake next against the Bill, and grounded his opinion only upon this vain supposition, That a Bishop can do nothing contrary to the Word of God.

M^r Beadle spake next in maintenance of the Bill; but the substance of his Speech is so briefly and imperfectly set down, as it cannot be gathered what his Reasons were.

M^r Manwood spake very judiciously and moderately, allowing well the scope and meaning of the Law, but wished, that in respect it mentioneth the redress of many Grievances, those same Grievances might first be particularly made known to the House, before the Bill were any further proceeded in.

M^r Fleetwood approved the Bill, yet spake not directly for it; but very covertly guirded at the Ecclesiastical Judges, and the Office of Faculties; shewing also in the conclusion of his Speech, that Livings are given to Ministers for the instructing the King and his People, and for the keeping of House, and other deeds of Charity: all which, if they were absent by dispensation, he inferred must of necessity be neglected.

Serjeant Lovelace lastly, as it should seem, concluded further Speech in this business, shewing the use and commodity of this Bill in question; but doubted that there was not power enough given therein, nor sufficient remedy provided for redress of the mischiefs thereby supposed to grow, by reason of the Granting the aforesaide Licences and Dispensations. Upon which (it should seem) that some Members of the House were appointed to consider of the said Bill, but their Names are not found in the Original Journal book of the House of Commons, or in that before-cited Anonymous Journal, out of which both the preceding and ensuing Speeches are transcribed.

M^r Norton made a Motion by Warrant of this Court, by the wisdom and godly care which in matters of weight was to be imployed, That to avoid the shameful and most hateful usage amongst the Ecclesiastical Judges, for delivering of Clerks convict upon their Oaths, and the manifest Perjury there by their Law against the Law committed, some order might be taken. He proved it might not be said a Liberty of the Church, except they will claim a liberty to sin; wherein indeed their principal liberty hath stood, and for the which they have not spared to hazard, nay to give, both their bodies and Souls to become Traitors to God and Man.

Thus did that Rebel Bishop Becket, whose principal quarrel and chief cause of all his stir, was, that the King would have punished one of his Mark, a Priest, for an abominable Incest committed by him; which trifling fault (forsooth) this Holy Saint could not endure to be rebuked by a Temporal Judge. Et hinc illae irae. He shewed, it could not be termed a Priviledge, and incouragement to Learning, since it was no other but a Cloak for their Naughtiness, and for such as might be of the Popes Sect: as well appeared, in that it was allowed to none but to such as might enter their Holy Orders, and not to one that had two Wives. He shewed at large the Circumstance of their practised Order upon the purgation of such Clerks, declaring of truth so disordered and hateful doings, that the whole House resolved to take care for redress.

There was then next after, by the Policy of p. 168Sir Humphrey Gilbert, a Motion made by one to have in talk the griefs which before had been uttered in the House, concerning the deceitful dealings of Treasurers and Receivers, the Reformation of the Exchequer for Homage, &c. and for the granting of Licences by the Queen, contrary to the form of sundry Statutes.

Hereupon Sir Humphrey Gilbert standing up, and some Introduction made to crave patience and toleration of the House, he endeavoured to prove the Motion of M^r Bell, made some days before, to be a vain device to be thought of, and perillous to be treated of; since it tended to the derogation of the Prerogative Imperial; which who should attempt in his fancy, could not otherwise be accounted than an open Enemy. For what difference is to say, the Queen is not to use the priviledge of the Crown, and to say she is not Queen? since they are so linked together, that the one without the other may not possibly be, or subsist? We are (said he) to give to a common Constable the right and regard of his Office; which if we should deny her, what is it other than to make her meaner than the meanest? And albeit Experience hath shewed such and so great Clemency in her Majesty, as might make us perhaps forfeit our selves; yet it is not good to sport or venture too much with Princes; yea, let be that our meaning be good, yet if it be not so thought of, how then? He remembred the Fable of the Hare, which fled upon the Proclamation, that all Horned Beasts should depart the Court, lest his Ears should be said Horns; this did he further inculcate, with this further signification, that if we should in any sort meddle with those matters, her Majesty might look to her own Power, and thereby finding her validity to suppress the strength of the challenged Liberty, and to challenge and use her Power any way, to do as did Lewes of France, who (as he termed it) delivered the Crown there out of Wardship, which the said French King did upon like occasion. He also said, that other Kings had absolute Power, as Denmark and Portugal; where as the Crown became more free, so are all the Subjects thereby the rather made Slaves.

This Speech was disliked, as implying many occasions of mischief, but for the present he was not answered further, than that it seemed he did mistake the meaning of the House, and of the Gentleman that made the Motion; who would it otherwise to be taken, nor otherwise for the House to deal in the matter, than to shew their common griefs in due and seemly sort unto her Majesty.

The Parliament was then by the consent of the House, for that it was Easter Eve, Adjourned until Thursday next; and it was agreed, that they should from thenceforth come to the House at seven of the Clock in the Morning; during which said time of Easter, M^r Strickland so often before-mentioned for the Exhibiting the Bill for Reformation of Ceremonies, and his Speech thereupon, was called before the Lords of the Privy-Council, and required to attend upon them, and to make stay from coming to the House in the mean season.

Thus far out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal of the House of Commons. The entrance into the next days Passages ensueth out of the Original Journal-Book it self of the said House, in manner and form following.

On Thursday the 19^th day of April, to which day the House of Commons had been on Saturday the 14^th day of this instant April foregoing, Adjourned, The Bill for the restraining of Kentish and Sussex Cloths to be sold at the Fairs at Maidston, was read the first time.

The Bill for the validity of Burgesses not resiant, was read the second time; upon which ensued divers Arguments, which being altogether omitted in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, are therefore supplied out of that often before-cited Anonymous Journal.

The first man that spoke effectually to this Bill, was M^r Warnecombe of Hereford; who standing up, said to this effect, That it behoveth all those which were Burgesses, to see to that Bill; for (quoth he) this may touch and over-reach their whole Liberties, as not having whereunto to stay; but that Lords Letters shall from henceforth bear all the sway: and to this effect was all that he said.

M^r Norton first made Explanation of the meaning of the Bill, to be (he said) to shame the imperfection of Choice, which is too often seen, by sending of unfit men; and lest happily any thing might be objected to the imperfection of the Parliament, which may seem to be scant sufficient by reason of the choice made by Boroughs, for the most part of Strangers (whereas by the positive Law no man ought to be Chosen Burgess for any Borough, but only Resiants and Inhabitants) He said further, that the choice should be of such as were able, and fit for so great a place and imployment, without respect of priviledge of place or degree; for that, by reason of his being a Burgess, it might not be intended or thought he was any thing the wiser; withal he argued, that the whole Body of the Realm, and the good Service of the same, was rather to be respected, than the private regard of Place, Priviledge, or Degree of any Person.

Then M^r Speaker moved the Opinion of the House, whether they could like the Bill should be ingrossed; and coming to the Question, some said No; but the greatest number seemed to say Yea.

Whereupon one standing up, whose name is not expressed in the said Anonymous Journal, said thus, I run wholly with the pretence of the Bill, that Boroughs decayed may be eased or relieved, knowing assuredly the same Honourable for the Realm, and in many respects profitable and commodious to those who do inhabit the Countries adjacent to such decayed Towns; p. 169That it is so, I will not stand to perswade. How far this Law may help them, I know not; if they be decayed, then it is most fit for them, that of their own Company there may be some, who feeling the smart, can best make relation of their estate; and knowing the Country, may devise and advise of such helps, as without the hurts of other places may restore the old ruines. All things are in change, and nothing so suppressed, but by God's Grace the same may in time by Policy be raised up. But to open my meaning shortly; the question is, What sort of men are to come to this Court, and publick Consultation in Parliament? Whether from every Quarter, Country, and Town there should come (as I might say) home-dwellers, or otherwise men chosen by directions, it forceth not whom? I am surely of mind, that neither for the good service of her Majesty, safety of our Country, or standing with the liberty, which of right we may challenge (being born Subjects within the Realm) this scope is to be given, or such loosness in choice to be permitted. That the whole Land of this Realm, we know, is to be for three purposes imployed, and thereby three sorts of men are, as it were, created. The one part given in Frank Almoigne, or for Divine Service to be used, to the Glory of God and Ministry of his Word.

The second part to be holden for defence against our Enemies by the Sword.

The third for maintenance of our livelihood at home, and for necessary imployments here. Of these three grounds, in the first division there groweth to our knowledge three sorts of men, the Ministers and Teachers of the Gospel, of whom we must have care, and with whom in making of Laws we must conferr if we will be Christians. The second are the Nobility, Knights, and Souldiers, the Defenders and Fortresses against our Enemies. The third sort be the Providers, Devisors, and Executors of all things necessary, commodious or seemly for a setled Estate (which hath the happiness to live there where is Pax & Justitia) for increase of our Wealths, sustenance of our Laws, the governing of bodies, or what else soever is necessary for us: such are the Counsellors, such are the Judges and Ministers of the Laws, such be the Tillers of the Earth, such be Merchants, such be Victuallers, and in this degree be those, who do use Manual and Mechanical Arts. Of all these, in like sort, as of the others, regard, care, and respect must be had; they throughly consulted with, the general and particular States are by them to be known, if we mean to proceed for the Publick Weal, or endeavour in the same a true perfection. These last sort making one kind are most ample, and thereto most effectual to be dealt with, as yielding to the rest supplementum, consilium & auxilium.

The second sort is likewise most necessary to be thought of. The first are best, and first to be followed; but those are all to be in one knot conjoyned, and as members of one body in one to be used. We may in regard of Religion lye in the Dike (as the Proverb is) long enough without our own aid, if we do nothing but pray for the help of Hercules. We may not trust only to the Sword, lest the common known Saying of Cicero should turn to our shame: Parva sunt soris arma, nisi Consilium Domi. Neither our Preaching, nor our praying to God are only sufficient, but withal we must do our endeavours, and help each other; since for the driving away of a Dog there is (as the Country-man saith) some virtue in a stone, if it be conjoyned with S^t John's Gospel; I mean, that every part of the body should do his own part to the aid of the other; the hand to help the hand, the foot to help the foot, &c. This hath moved our Forefathers, and on this ground hath it grown, that in this Court where we are to consider of all, and (as occasion may serve) to alter, constitute, or reform all things, as cause shall be, that we do know all sorts of men, so far as may be to help all. How may her Majesty, or how may this Court know the estate of her Frontiers, or who shall make Report of the Ports, or how every Quarter, Shire, or Country is in state? We who never have seen Berwick or S^t Michael's Mount, can but blindly guess of them, albeit we look on the Maps, that came from thence, or see Letters of Instruction sent; some one whom Observation, Experience, and due Consideration of that Country hath taught, can more perfectly open what shall in question thereof grow, and more effectually reason thereupon, than the skilfullest otherwise whatsoever. And that they should be the very Inhabiters of the several Countries of this Kingdom, who should be here in times certain imployed, doubtless it was the true meaning of ancient Kings and our Forefathers, who first began and established this Court. But leaving what I cannot reach unto, the first constitution and freedom of this Court, the old President of Parliament-Writs do teach us, that of every Country their own Burgesses should be Elected, the Writ to the Sheriff and Burrough is directly so; and the Writs to the Cities being Counties, are, Quod ex vobis ipsis eligatis duos Cives, &c. which do prove it to be so; the Statute in the 1 H. 5. for the Confirmation of the old Laws was therefore made, and not to create a new unknown Law; and that other in the .... H. 6. was made to redress the mischief, which by breach of that old Law did grow. These do conclude it without contradiction, that for that time it was thought fit to continue the ancient Use, Liberty, and conveniency of Service. We know that such as have spent their whole time in Service, or have seen only the manner of Government of other Nations, and can tell you how the Crown of France is delivered out of Wardship, or otherwise tell a Tale of the King of Castile and Portugal; how they in making of Laws do use their own discretion, the King of Denmark useth the advice of his Nobles only, and nothing p. 170of his Commons; nor can paint you out the monstrous Garments of the common People in some parts of Germany, or the mangled Common-Wealth of the Allies, or shadows of the great Cities, which now are to be seen in Italy; surely all those men, except they know also our own homes, are not to be trusted to conclude for our own Home-Affairs. Doubtless the best learned for matters of Commodity to be raised, or to be wrought in his own Country, may happily give place to his own Neighbours, even as wisely and learnedly a Gentleman said of late, In every Commitment, according to the matter, there must be a Declaration of men, as for Merchandize the Merchant and so forth: Unicui que in suâ arte perito credendum, we hold for a Maxime. And I mean this wholly to no other end, but since we deal universally for all sorts and all places, that there be here of all sorts, and all Countries, and not (seeing you list so to term it) thus to ease them of Towns and Boroughs, that they may chuse at liberty whom they list; yet can I hardly call that a Liberty which is contrary to that which the King and the Queen commonly granteth as a free gift, and by these words, Et de majori gratiâ meâ, &c. dedimus potestatem, &c. quod de se ipsis eligant duos Burgenses, or duos Cives; we take it more for a man to have of his own, than to have (by any mans discretion) of another.

It hath been of late oft and well said, that to nominate another to a Benefice is nothing worth in value, but if it be, that a man may take the benefit himself, that is both valuable and estimable: that cannot hurt, that is ever good for me, if it be ever tied in nearest sort unto me; and for this reason we say in Law, that the Estate Tail, which must continue in our own Blood, is better than the Estate in Fee simple, which may be got further from us, and is to be given to Strangers at pleasure; mischiefs and inconveniences there may grow by this Liberty; but a mischief it may be to me, and inconvenient also to utter the same: I will not speak thereof but dutifully, neither do I see any thing that is amiss at this present; what was done a hundred years since, I may safely tell, and thus it was.

A Duke of this Realm wrote his Letters to a City, which I know, to this effect; whereby he did signify, that a Parliament was to be Summoned in short time, and that for great causes he was to crave aid of all his Friends, and reckoning them amongst the rest, he wished them of four under-nominated to chuse two; the Letter under the Dukes Seal is still preserved, but hear you the Answer; he was written to with due humbleness, that they were prohibited by Law, they might chuse none of them. I will venture a little nearer.

In Queen Maries time a Council of this Realm (not the Queens Privy-Council) did write to a Town, to chuse a Bishops Brother, (and a great Bishops Brother it was indeed) whom they assured to be a good Catholick man; and willed them to chuse to the like of him some other fit man. The Council was Answered with Law. And if all Towns in England had done the like in their Choice, the Crown had not been so wronged, and the Realm so robbed with such ease at that Parliament, and truth banished as it was; what hath been, may be, there is no impossibility. It will be said, I mistake, it is not meant, but that Towns shall be at liberty to chuse whom they list. I say, that Liberty is the loss of Liberty; for when by Law they may do what they will, they may not well deny what shall be required. It is too truly said, Rogando cogit qui rogat potentior. And I have known one that to avoid a great mans displeasure that dwelt near him, that was desirous (as he knew) to buy his Land, did upon small occasion bind himself not to alienate his Land from his true Heirs: this being known, I mean that he was bound as aforesaid; the great man was contented to let him keep his own quietly, which otherwise he would not have done. Surely Law is the only Fortress of the inferior sort of People, and contrary to the Law, the greater sort will not desire or expect anything. Though now at this present (God be praised) we need not to fear the greatness of any man, Justice is so well administred: Yet hereafter, whatsoever hath been we may fear, either for maintenance of Faction, or maintenance of Mischief. Again, I say, it may be, what heretofore was possibly again may be. We stand and have stood of late upon the notorious manifestation of the Authority of Parliament: except withal you keep the ancient usage of the same, and withal endeavour the freedom thereof, in effect you do nothing, if I guess aright.

It is further said, that in some Towns there are not men of discretion fit; they be not the wiser (said the Gentleman that spoke before,) for being Burgesses. I can never be perswaded, but that either the Lord, whose the Town is, be the Town never so little; or the Steward, if it be the Queens, or some good Gentleman of the Country adjoinant, will either assign them who know the Town and can be content to be free among them, and to serve by their appointment, for their Country, and for them; or else for some reasonable Fee, such as be of their Learned Councel, and who know them, and the Country will deal for them. I mean it not so strictly, that those who should be chosen, should of necessity be dwellers in the Town; but to be either of the Town, or towards the Town, Borderers and near Neighbours at the least: and to this effect I would the Bill were framed. I stand too long hereon, and abundance of matter occasioneth confusion; this is all. It was meant at the first, and first Constitution of Parliament, that men of every quarter, and of all sorts, should come to this Court, that they should be freely chosen. This in every Age hitherto hath seemed best; to alter without cause is not convenient; to give every Town liberty may offer in time inconvenience. None so fit for every Country as those who know the same. To chuse of their own, it p. 171is a Liberty; to lose their Liberty, I think it a bad Commodity, call it as you please; by such kind of release in easing men of their. Wealths, or of some good part of their Living, beshrow our Charity. And in like sort, and in like reason, it seems to me this Law is inferred out of the Preface of the same. For thus it is penned:

Forasmuch as some Towns are decayed, and have not of their own, therefore let every Town do what they list. Of a particular Proposition to make a general conclusion, it is against our Rules, and nothing (as saith the Philosopher) is more absurd than non causam pro causà. Some Towns cannot send fit men, it standeth very strongly, if you seek to help, let the Plaister be fit for the sore; let not the Salve be stretched too far, lest the whole and sound flesh by the broad spreading of the Salve, do either smart, fret or fester. The Medicine which healeth the sick man may be poyson for the whole and sound man. All Citizens and Burgesses should not be thought alike, and yet all provided for, as there is due cause; let there be therefore convenient consideration, how to heal, how to hurt. And I could wish, according to the weight of the matter, it might be rather staid on, than thus abruptly overruled; and while we fly Scylla, we fall not into Charybdis; while we say that Boroughs cannot send to this High Court so fit men as be convenient, that by altering the ancient usage, which is the only Warrant and sole stay of freedom in Parliament, it may happily be said we have no Parliament now within this Realm, nor Liberty at all for any such here to be holden.

M^r Bell in Answer of this, did collect the substance of what had been said, and in a long Discourse shewed, that it was necessary all places should be provided for, and not Boroughs only, being but one of the Members of the Common-Wealth, and that some of them have neither Wealth to provide fit men, nor themselves any in any sort convenient. He thought not amiss, if in respect of those manifest wants, convenient supply should be; but without the Warrant of Parliament, such alteration might not be. He then thought it not amiss to be advised. And for the objection of the danger which may ensue by reason of the Letters of Noblemen; he could not (he said) but think it convenient to prevent the same; and therefore wished, that there might be the penalty of forty pound upon every Borough that should make such Election at the Nomination of any Nobleman.

M^r Alford reasoned to this effect, That above all things, necessary care ought to be for the chusing and having of fit men to supply the place, that there be not imperfection. And therefore noted one great disorder, that many young men, not experienced, for Learning sake, were often Chosen, through whose default he knew not; whether Letters of Noblemen, Love or Affection in the Country, their own Ambition, or the careless accompt of the Electors, or what else was the Cause, he knew not; but it was to be seen: whereupon he would, none should be of that House, not of thirty years of Age at the least. And for the Choice of Townesmen (he said) he was of this mind, that Moses and Aaron should be conjoined together, and that there should be one of their own, or some Gentleman near them, who had knowledge of the State of the Country; and the other a man Learned, and able to utter his mind and opinion, since that knowledge locked up in the breast, not being orderly opened, is to no purpose; and this part (he said) was as requisite for consultation as the other. So that he seemed to conclude the Law should be in force for the one Burgess, and at Liberty for th other.

After which Speeches the aforsaid Bill touching the validity of Burgesses, &c. was Ordered to be committed, but the names of the Committees being not found in the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, are therefore transcribed out of the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons it self; viz. Sir Thomas Hilton Knight, M^r Bell, M^r Robert Bowes, M^r Fleetwood, M^r Warnecomb, M^r Bedle, M^r Atkins, M^r Alford, and M^r Gynes; and appointed to meet in the Temple-Church upon Saturday next at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.

It was Ordered that the Wardens of the Fleet should bring M^r Sacheveril into this House to Morrow in the Morning, at nine of the Clock, touching M^r Skeffington's Bill. Vide concerning this Bill on Saturday the 14^th day of this instant April foregoing.

The Bill against Usury was read the second time, whereupon ensued divers Arguments and Speeches, which being omitted in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, are therefore transcribed out of that often already cited Anonymous Journal of the same House, in manner and form following.

First one M^r Clarke spoke to this effect, That the referring of the punishment in the Bill mentioned, being put to the Ecclesiastical Judges, for so much was nothing; for that they are to punish by the Civil Law, by the Canon Law, or by the Temporal Law. The Civil Law would not avoid them, because by that Law there is allowance of Usury. The Canon Law is abolished; and in that respect the Temporal Law saith nothing; so that the pretence may seem to be somewhat, but the effect thereby wrought is nothing; yet that it was ill, neither Christian nor Pagan ever denied. Aristotle being asked what Usury was? he said, it was praeter Naturam, and therefore could not be defined. And Plato being asked the same Question, he said it was idem ac hominem occidere. S^t Augustine the same; And in the very words of the Psalmist answereth to the Question, Domine quis habitabit in Tabernaculo tuo? He said, Qui curat proximo suo, non decipit eum, & qui pecuniam suam non dabit ad usuram.

M^r Molley first Learnedly and Artificially making an Introduction to the matter shewed, what it might be thought on for any man to endeavour p. 172the defence of that which every Preacher at all times, following the Letter of the Book, did speak against; yet saith he, it is convenient, and being in some sort used, it is not repugnant to the word of God. Experience hath proved the great mischief which doth grow by reason of excessive taking, to the destruction of young Gentlemen, and otherwise infinitely; but the mischief is of the excess not otherwise. Since to take reasonably, or so that both parties might do good, was not hurtful; for to have any man lend his money without any Commodity, hardly should you bring that to pass. And since every man is not an Occupier who hath money, and some which have not money may yet have skill to use money, except you should take away or hinder good Trades, bargaining and contracting cannot be; God did not so hate it, that he did utterly forbid it, but to the Jews amongst themselves only, for that he willed they should lend as Brethren together; for unto all others they were at large; and therefore to this day they are the greatest Usurers in the World. But be it, as indeed it is, evil, and that men are men, no Saints, to do all these things perfectly, uprightly and Brotherly; yet ex duobus malis minus malum eligendum; and better may it be born to permit a little, than utterly to take away and prohibit Traffick; which hardly may be maintained generally without this.

But it may be said, it is contrary to the direct word of God, and therefore an ill Law; if it were to appoint men to take Usury, it were to be disliked; but the difference is great between that and permitting or allowing, or suffering a matter to be unpunished. It may be said, that Nudum pactum non parit obligationem, but there must be somewhat given in consideration. Let be that there is nothing given of the Lenders, yet there is somewhat simile, & omne bonum exemplum, & omnis lex in se aliquid habet mali; for that some body shall suffer thereby. We are not, quoth he, so straitned to the word of God, that every transgression should be surely punished here. Every vain word is here forbidden by God, yet the temporal Law doth not so utterly condemn it. As for the words of the Scripture, he saith, the Hebrew soundeth thus in Answer of this Question; Qui non dat pecuniam suam ad morsum: so it is the biting and over-sharp dealing which is disliked and nothing else. And this, he said, was the opinion and interpretation of the most Famous Learned Man Beza, and in these days, of Bellarmine and divers others; who say, that the true interpretation of the Hebrew word is not Usura, but Morsus.

Doctor Wilson Master of the Requests, said, that in a matter of so great weight he could not shortly speak, and acknowledging that he had throughly studied the matter, desired the patience of the House. And first he endeavoured to prove, that the common State may be without Usury; then he shewed, how even men that have been ignorant of God or his Laws, finding the evils thereof by their Laws, redressed it; and utterly prohibited the use thereof. As the Athenians caused all the Writings taken for interest money to be burnt; and the like did Lycurgus by a Law which he made, and seeing the Fire, he said, he never saw so fair a Flame as those Books yielded. He then made a definition of Usury, shewing it was taking of any reward, or price or sum, over and above the due Debt. To make any thing of that which is not mine, it is robbery. Forthwith upon the delivery of the Loan money, it is not mine. And the Law is, that Mutuum must ever be free. And here he shewed the difference between Location and Mutuum; the one implying a contract, the other none. He remembred out of Ezechiel and other the Prophets, sundry places of Scripture, and vouched S^t Augustines saying, that to take but a Cup of Wine, is Usury and Damnable. This he seemed to say in Answer to that which had been before pronounced, that it was not Usury except it were Morsus.

He shewed, that loss may grow by Usury; First, to the Queen, then to the Common-Wealth. To the Queen in this, that men not using their own money, but finding great gain in Usury, do imploy the same that way; so that her Customs must decrease: To the Common-Wealth, for that, who so shall give hire for money, is to raise the same in the sale of his Commodity. All Trades shall be taken away, all occupations lost; for most men seeking most ease, and greatest gain, without hazard or venture, will forthwith imploy their money to such use. He shewed it to be so hateful in the Judgment of the Common Law, that an Usurer was not admitted to be a Witness, nor after his Death to the common Sepulchre of Christians. And for that his Discourse had been long, he inserted (as he said) this Tale for recreation of the Hearers.

In Italy, Quoth he, a great known Usurer being Dead, the Curate denied him the common place of Burial; his Friends made Suit, the Priest would not hear; in fine, the Suitors bethought them of a Policy to bring it to pass, that he might be Buried in the Church; which was this. The Parson of the Church did accustomably use to carry his Books daily from his House to the Church on his Ass; and the Ass by often going needed not to be driven, but knowing his Journey, as soon as he was laden, would of himself go to the Church Door; they desired the Parson, his Ass might carry the dead Body, and where it should stay, the Body to be Buried. To so fond a request the Priest agreed, the Body was laid on the Ass, who feeling a greater burthen than he was used to bear, did run towards the Town, never staying until he came to the common place of Execution.

This Tale merrily told, he again entred to his matter, and proved the Condemnation of Usury and Usurers, by the Authority of the Nicene and divers other Councils: He shewed, that the Divines do call Usury a Spider, a Canker, an Aspis, p. 173a Serpent and a Devil; he shewed how in nature the offences of Homicide and Usury are to be compared, and by Examples proved the ruins of divers Common-Wealths, when such practices for gain are suffered as that of the Common-Wealth of Rome, &c. The manner of Exchange now used in London, and how much abuse he shewed, a thing in old time not practised, but by the King, as in Ed. 3. time, when thereby the King obtained such Treasure, and such excessive Wealth, that it was first wondred at, then guessed that it grew by the Science of Alchymy. He here shewed the practice of the Low-Countries, of Germany, and namely the doings of Fulchers to the very beggering of great and mighty Princes; he vouched the authority of Sir John Cheek in that place, concerning that matter; and the mind of the ancient English Law-Writers, who say that the offence of Usury in Life the Bishop is to punish; but after his Death his Executors shall not have his goods, but they appertain ad Fiscum. He concluded that the offence in his Conscience should be judged Felony.

M^r Bell said, This matter being so ample had occasioned much Speech, and was for cunning men a fit Theme to shew their Wits and skills upon. Yet, saith he, it standeth doubtful what Usury … we have no true definition of it. And in our Laws we have little written thereon but this, Usura non currat super Infantem. And not much more but to Answer the Objections, where it is pretended, that the not punishing of it by the temporal Judge, may seem to be an approbation of it, or to leave it to the Church may seem as if we had no care concerning it; for that to put over an offence to another Judge, may not be so said, if to the Church it may appertain, and they may well correct it. He further shewed, that the priviledge of the Church is by Statute upon this point to be expressed, namely in the Statute de Articulis Cleri. He said, we must not curiously search Cicero's Paradoxes, and pronounce that Peccata sunt aequalia, hoc est, quod omne peccatum est peccatum; and no further: but be every man according to his transgressions, to make a reasonable pain; though he who stealeth two pence, doth as well steal as he who stealeth an hundred pounds; yet there are degrees; we have Petit Larceny, and that which is greater; both faults, both to be punished, both to be hated; but difference there is in punishing, even according to the greatness and smallness of the offence; for the one there is Death, for the other not so.

In the Statute for punishing of Perjury 5^o of this Queen, there are sundry degrees of Perjury: not for that there is less Perjury in the one than in the other; but that there is greater hurt occasioned in the one than in the other. In Answer of the Scripture, he said, the Law of God is, If thou be stricken on the one Cheek, to turn the other; or if thy Cloak be taken away, to give also thy Gown. The literal sence is not to be taken, and, as there is cause, a reasonable construction must be. So he concluded, that though it were a sin, yet it was to be punished here on Earth according to the good or bad, or rather according to the greater or lesser hurt which groweth thereby.

After which one (whose name is not expressed in the said Anonymous Journal) endeavour'd the Answer of M^r Wilson, but with a Protestation of his insufficiency, and then he shewed, how the Divines have not agreed what is Usury, but for his own part, he was to incline to the opinion of the Learned of these days, whose interpretation of litteral sence and skill of the Tongues do appear; which took that for no Usury which is without grievance. He made a difference of the Law of God concerning the Divine Majesty contained in the first Table, and what is concerning man in the second Table; saying, that nothing is to be said in that degree sin in it self, but by the circumstances; for so it is known whether it be good or bad. To kill is prohibited, yet sometimes not to kill is evil. Phineas killed, and was therefore commended. And Thefts at times have been in Scriptures approved. So likewise Usury is allowed of in the Scriptures; but that it might be used to Strangers only: Albeit the Chosen Children of God amongst themselves might not use it. But let be, whether it be utterly unlawful, or in some sort to be tolerated, it is a question; and until it be determined for the common Commodity and maintenance, let it be as hitherto it hath been used. And for the common sort of Bargains of Corn for Cloth, Silk for Land, &c. what they be, whether Usury or no, we know not. That all should be well, it is to be wished; that all may be done well among men, it is beyond hope, for we are no Saints, we are not of perfection to follow the Letter of the Gospel, Who so striketh the one Cheek, &c. and this Text date nihil inde sperantes; These are no express Commandments. For the first, the Law of nature doth direct, and for the other also the same Law in effect maketh defence; surely there can be no sin where there can be no breach of Charity. To do that therefore to another which we would to our selves (the state, circumstance and case to our selves considered) is commendable, or not to be reproved; if we our selves be to borrow, who is it that would not in extremity give a little to save much money? It is said, the Usurer doth or may grow rich: Who hath disliked in a Common-Wealth, that there should be homines boni srugi? they may be considered, and may be good, more than for one purpose. He further stood on this, that God did not absolutely forbid Usury, which surely if it had been utterly ill, he would have done. And he added, that the Common Laws were Cruel in their censures, and wished that they should be no more remembred than they are followed.

Serjeant Lovelace argued to this effect, that Usury was of money only, protesting that he hated all kind of Usury, but yet the greater the ill was, the more and more greatly did he hate p. 174the same. But to prohibit it with so sharp and extream a Law as to lose all, he thought it would be the ground of greater Covetousness; withal he added, to prohibit the ill of Covetousness in generality, were rash, void and frivolous; since that the Speech and the Act it self is indefinite, comprehending all our actions and doings; and therefore, as utterly vain to prohibit it, in vain words of generality. To prohibit Drunkenness, Pride, Envy, Surfeiting, &c. were somewhat in some particular sort; to do it in generality, albeit that we know that it is every way damnable by the direct and written word of God, it were but folly. Of these great Evils (to the which man of his nature is born and made prone, and too apt) when we may not reach to the best, furthest and uttermost, we must do, as we may say, by degrees. As to say there shall be no deceit, or sleight in making of this or that kind of Wares; that the Husband-man shall till his Arable Land, and that he shall not keep above such a number of Sheep; that there shall be no forestalling, regrating, &c. and this in particularity; whereas otherwise, generally amongst sinful men to prohibit this sin or that sin utterly on a pain, it may not be: but thus rather, he that shall so sin shall suffer or lose so much; whereupon he concluded, that there should be degrees in punishing of Usury; as he that should take so much, to lose, or be punished thus; he that shall take more, more deeply.

M^r Flectwood shewed, that all these Arguments long since, with great skill, and very often have been opened in this place: He said, it was Ingenui pudoris sateri per quem profeceris. M^r Check, he said, argued, and so far forth explained this matter, as the Learner was thereby sufficiently informed, and the Learned fully satisfied. His Papers of his Speech (he said) he had not lost, and therefore could shew as much cunning as the cunningest, which had bent or endeavoured himself thereunto. He said he had read the Civil Law, and of the Common Law somewhat; but how well he did understand it, he would not promise ought: What Usury was, he said, he was not to learn; call it if we list, Proxima homicidio, or how else by a description, he forced not much; for if there were not Civil Law, it were not much to be accounted of for any certainty in this Case thereby to be had; and the most ancient Laws of this Realm have taught us thereof somewhat; as the Laws of ..... do make to us mention of Usury. So do the Laws made in Lucius his time, and those of Athelred; whereby it was ordained, that Witches and Usurers should be banished. King Edward the Saint reserreth and appointeth the Offenders herein to suffer ordalium. Then was there a great kind of Usury known, which was called Torus, and a lesser known by the name of ..... Glanvile, in the Book de legibus antiquis, maketh mention of an inquiry of Christian Usurers. In the Tower (he said) he had seen a Commission awarded to the Master of the Courts (he named not what Courts) to enquire of Usurers, and the punishment of them (he said) was whipping; he said further, by Scripture he knew it was damnable; and therefore, whether it was good or not good, it was no good Question. For the matter of Implication, whether by the pretence of the Law it might be intended that it was in any sort allowed; he said it might be construed and compared there with the Statute of Tiths: where it is said, that till for seven years after Heath ground broken up, no Tith shall be paid; the Construction hereupon is clear. He shewed also, that Usury was malum in se, for that of some other transgressions, her Majesty may dispence afore with; but for Usury, or to grant that Usury may be used, she possibly cannot. He further said, that the words of an Act of Parliament are not ever to be followed; for that sometimes the construction is more contrary to what is written, as in the Statute of Magna Charta; nisi prius homagium fecerit. And some Statutes are winked at by non-observation or otherwise, so that they seem to be no Laws, even in those things which we practise most, as the Statute of Gloc. for the Oath to be taken in Debt and Damages.

M^r Dalton endeavoured to prove, that M^r Fleetwood mistook the Bill, but in fancy he mistook his Arguments.

M^r Norton shewed, that all Usury is biting; as in the word Steal is contained all kind of injurious taking away of a mans goods: and as slanderizing is said to be murthering or homicide; so is Usury justly ever to be said biting, they being both so correlated or knit together, that the one may not be without the other. He concluded, that since it is doubtful what is good, we should be mindful of the old saying, Quod dubitas ne feceris, and for that Quod non ex fide est peccatum est, therefore he wished that no allowance should be of it.

After these Arguments (being transcribed out of the often before-cited Anonymous Journal) were ended, there is no other mention of any further proceeding in this Bill, but it doth plainly appear by the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, that this Bill having had its second reading as aforesaid, was now at the last, after the preceeding Arguments were ended, Committed by M^r Treasurer and others, whose names are all omitted in the Original Journal-Book.

On Friday the 20^th day of April, the Bill for the Assizes to be kept at Worcester, was read the first time.

The Bill also for impannelling of Juries, was read the second time, and rejected upon the Question.

These two Bills being thus transcribed out of the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, the greatest part of the residue of this days passages, do here next follow, out of that often already cited Anonymous Journal, in which there is one Bill touching Caps, which is not at all mentioned in the Original Journal-Book it self p. 175aforesaid, set down in manner and form following, viz.

A Bill for Caps was read the second time, and ruled, that the same should be ingrossed.

This Bill (as is aforesaid) is not at all found to be set down in the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons; but that next ensuing is there mentioned, and the Arguments also touching the Liberty of the House, are there generally remembred, which with the said Bill do here at large follow, with some small alteration only, out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, in manner and form following.

The Bill for such as be fled beyond the Seas without Licence, or shall not return within a certain number of Dayes, after their Licences expired, to lose their Lands and Goods, and to avoid Covenous Gifts, was read the second time, and not then effectually spoken unto by any man.

M^r Wentworth very orderly in many words remembred the Speech of Sir Humphrey Gilbert, delivered some days before: He proved his Speech (without naming him) to be an injury to the House, he noted his disposition to flatter and fawn on the Prince, comparing him to the Cameleon, which can change himself into all colours, saving white; even so (said he) this reporter can change himself to all fashions but honesty; he shewed further the great wrong done to one of the House, by a misreport made to the Queen (meaning M^r Bell;) he shewed his Speech to tend to no other end than to inculcate fear into those which should be sree; he requested care for the credit of the House, and for the maintenance of free Speech (the only means of ordinary proceedings) and to preserve the Liberties of the House, to reprove Lyers, inveighing greatly out of the Scriptures and otherwise, against Liers. As this of David, Thou O Lord shalt destroy Lyers, &c.

M^r Treasurer signified his desire to have all things well; saying, he could not enter into Judgment of any; but he said, it was convenient ill Speeches should be avoided, and the good meaning of all men to be taken, without wresting or misreporting; and the meaning of all men to be shewed in good sort without unseemly words.

M^r Speaker endeavoured an Agreement and unity in the House, making signification that the Queens Majesty had in plain words declared unto him, that she had good Intelligence of the orderly proceeding among us; whereof she had as good liking as ever she had of any Parliament since she came unto the Crown; and wished we should give her no other cause than to continue the same, and added further her Majesties pleasure to be, to take Order for Licences; wherein she had been careful, and more careful would be.

M^r Carleton with a very good Zeal, and orderly shew of Obedience, made signification how that a Member of the House was detained from them (meaning M^r Strickland) by whose Commandment, or for what cause he knew not. But for as much as he was not now a private man, but to supply the room, person and place of a multitude specially chosen, and therefore sent, he thought that neither in regard of the Country, which was not to be wronged, nor for the Liberty of the House, which was not to be infringed, we should permit him to be detained from us. But, whatsoever the intendment of this offence might be, that he should be sent for to the Bar of that House, there to be heard, and there to Answer.

M^r Treasurer in some case gave Advertisement to be wary in our proceedings, and neither to venture further than our assured Warrant might stretch, nor to hazard our good opinion with her Majesty on any doubtful cause. Withal he wished us not to think worse than there was cause. For the man (quoth he) that is meant, is neither detained nor misused, but on considerations is required to expect the Queens pleasure, upon certain special points: wherein (he said) he durst to assure that the man should neither have cause to dislike or complain, since so much favour was meant unto him as he reasonably could wish. He further said, that he was in no sort stayed for any word or speech by him in that place offered; but for the exhibiting of a Bill into the House against the Prerogative of the Queen; which was not to be tolerated. Nevertheless the construction of him was rather to have erred in his zeal and Bill offered, than maliciously to have meant any thing contrary to the Dignity Royal. And lastly, He concluded that oft it had been seen, that Speeches have been examined and considered of.

Sir Nicholas Arnold with some vehemency moved, that care might be had for the liberty of the House; he was inforced, he said, rather to utter, and so to run into danger of offence of others, than to be offended with himself.

M^r Comptroller replied to the effect M^r Treasurer had before spoken.

M^r Cleere told, how the Prerogative is not disputable, and that the safety of the Queen is the safety of the Subjects. He added, how that for matter of Divinity, every man was for his instruction to repair to his Ordinary, being a private man (where he utterly forgot the place he spake in, and the person who was meant; for that place required and permitted free speech with authority, and the person was not himself a private man but a publick; by whom even the Ordinary himself was to be directed) He concluded, that for as much as the cause was not known, he therefore would the House should stay.

M^r Yelverton said he was to be sent for, arguing in this sort. First, he said, the President was perillous, and though in this happy time of lenity, among so good and honourable Personages, under so gracious a Prince, nothing of extremity or injury was to be feared; yet the times might be altered, and what now is permitted, hereafter might be construed as of Duty, and enforced, p. 176even on this ground of the present permission. He further said, that all matters not Treason, or too much to the Derogation of the Imperial Crown, were tolerable there, where all things came to be considered of, and where there was such fulness of Power, as even the right of the Crown was to be determined, and by Warrant whereof we had so resolved. That to say the Parliament had no Power to determine of the Crown, was High-Treason. He remembred how that men are not there for themselves, but for their Countries. He shewed, it was fit for Princes to have their Prerogatives; but yet the same to be straitned within reasonable limits. The Prince, he shewed, could not of her self make Laws, neither might she by the same reason break Laws. He further said, that the Speech uttered in that place, and the offer made of the Bill, was not to be condemned as evil; for that if there were any thing in the Book of Common-Prayer, either Jewish, Turkish or Popish, the same was to be reformed. He also said, that amongst the Papists it was bruted, that by the Judgment of the Council, Strickland was taken for an Heretick; it behoved therefore to think thereof.

M^r Fleetwood first shewed the order of Civil Arguments from the cause to this effect, that time must be known and place observed. He said then, that of Experience he could report of a man that was called to account of his Speech in 5^to of this Queen; but he said, he could not meddle with so late matters, but what he had learned in the Parliament Rolls, he thought convenient should be known and considered of. In the time of H. 4. a Bishop of the Parliament was Committed to Prison by Commandment of the King; the Parliament resolved to be Suitors for him. And in King H. 5. the Speaker himself was Committed, &c. with him another of the House; the House thereupon stayed, but remedy they had none, other than to be Suitors to the King for them; whereupon he resolved, that the only and whole help of the House for ease of their grief in this case, was to be humble Suitors to her Majesty, and neither send for him, nor demand him of right.

During which Speech the Council whispered together, and thereupon the Speaker moved, that the House should make stay of any further Consultation thereupon.

Thus far of these Speeches out of the aforesaid Anonymous Journal, unto which for the intire making up of this present days agitations, these passages following are transcribed out of the Original Journal-Book it self of the House of Commons, in manner and form following.

M^r Comptroller moved touching the Bill for Bristol, that Licence might be granted to amend it in form, not changing the matter; which was assented unto.

The Bill concerning coming to Church, and receiving of the Communion, was read the second time.

A Proviso to the Bill concerning coming to Church, and receiving the Communion, was read the first time.

The Bill for Shrewsbury was read the second time, and ordered to be ingrossed.

On Saturday the 21^th day of April, an Addition to the Bill for coming to Church, and receiving of the Communion, was read the first time.

A Proviso to the Bill for coming to Church, and receiving of the Communion, was read the first time.

The Bill for coming to Church, and receiving the Communion, with the Additions and Provisoes, were Committed unto M^r Treasurer, M^r Chancellor of the Dutchy, Sir Thomas Smith, M^r Moore, M^r Henry Knolles Sen. M^r Sampoole, M^r Mounson, M^r Bell, M^r Yelverton, M^r Agmonderon, M^r Boyer, M^r Thomas Snagg, and M^r Strickland, who were appointed to meet in M^r Treasurers Chamber at the Court, at two of the Clock in the Afternoon.

Thus far of this days Passages out of the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons. Now follows an Observation upon M^r Stricklands coming to the House this day; being nominated the last Committee in the Bill foregoing, out of that often before-cited Anonymous Journal; because it doth conduce very much to the Declaration and maintenance of the Liberties of the House: for the said M^r Strickland having on Saturday the 14^th day of this instant April, pressed very earnestly the reformation of the Book of Common-Prayer, and some Ceremonies of the Church, was, after the Adjournment of the House of Commons on that day, being Easter Even, called before her Majesties Council, about the beginning of the Week following, and was commanded by them to forbear coming to the said House, in the mean season, and to attend their further pleasure; whereupon, on Friday immediately foregoing, being the 20^th day of this said instant April, divers Speeches and Motions having passed in the House, touching the breach of the Liberties thereof, by restraint of one of their Members from repairing thither (although he were neither imprisoned nor confined) M^r Speaker did at last desire them to forbear further Consultation in the said matter. And the House having at his said request, passed over the residue of the said day in the Morning, in the agitation of other business, the above-mentioned M^r Strickland did this Forenoon (upon an Advertisement (as it should seem) from her Majesties Council) repair again to the said House, soon after it was set. And coming just upon the time, when the foregoing Bill for coming to Church, and receiving the Communion, was in the referring to Committees; the said House did in witness of their joy for the restitution of one of their said Members, awhile from them restrained, presently nominate him one of the said Committees, as appeareth plainly by their names immediately foregoing, being inserted out of the Original Journal-Book of the said House, out of which these p. 177next ensuing passages do follow, in manner and form following.

The Bill for William Skeffington Esq, was read the second time, and Henry Sacheverel being present at the Bar, and in open Court confessing the fraud, offered by way of excuse a Bill of causes moving him thereunto, which was read also, and ordered to be ingrossed.

The Proviso to the Bill for coming to Church, and receiving of the Communion, was read the second time; upon which, as it should seem, divers Arguments ensued, although no mention thereof be made in the aforesaid Original Journal Book it self; and are therefore supplied out of that often before-cited Anonymous Journal, in manner and form following; viz.

M^r Aglionby argued, that there should be no human positive Law to inforce Conscience, which is not discernable in this World. To come to the Church, for that it is publick, and tendeth but to prove a man a Christian, is tolerable and convenient; and not to come to Church may make a man seem irreligious, and so no man; for that by Religion only a man is known and discerned from Brute Beasts; and this is to be judged by the outward show. But the Conscience of man is Eternal, invisible, and not in the power of the greatest Monarchy in the World, in any limits to be straitned, in any bounds to be contained, nor with any policy of man, if once decayed, to be again raised. He shewed, that neither Jew nor Turk, do require more than the submission to the outward observance, and a convenient silence, as not to dislike what is publickly professed, but to inforce any to do the Act, which may tend to the discovery of his Conscience, it is never found. He shewed the difference betwixt coming to Church, and receiving the Communion; the one he allowed to be incomprehensible in Law, the other he could not allow. And in Answer of that which before had been said, that the Conscience was not straitned, but a penalty of the loss of their goods only adjudged; whereof no doubt the Law of God and the Law of Nations had given to the Prince an absolute Power; he said to this out of Cicero de Legibus, that man out of his own nature is to care for the safety of man, as being reasonable Creatures, and not the one to seek to bereave the other of his necessary livelyhood, adding out of the same Book, this saying of Tully, Qui Deum non curat hunc Deus ipse judicabit. He shewed out of S^t Paul, that we must not do ill that good may grow thereby; we must not take from him that is his, to the end thereby to make him to do what is not in his power; to be fit for so great a mystery God above of his free gift may make a man.

To come unworthily the penalty is appointed, S^t Paul hath pronounced it to be Death and Damnation, as guilty of the Blood and Death of Christ. Not to come our Compulsory Law shall now condemn, so that this our favour herein to be extended, is either to beg, or be exiled from our native Country. He said, there was no Example in the Primitive Church to prove a Commandment for coming to the Communion, but an Exhortation; he said, S^t Ambrose did Excommunicate Theodosius, and forbid him to come to the Communion, because he was an evil man. And for us to will and command men to come, because they are wicked men, it is too strange an inforcement, and without President.

M^r Agmondesham without regard of any thing spoken before, made mention of a Decree in the Star-Chamber made by nine of the Privy-Council, signed with their hands, and the hands of the Chief Justices, concerning the receiving of the Communion by Gentlemen of the Temple. This Decree made by so grave and learned men, he thought for himself, and to his own Conscience, was a stay what to judge, and a direction or president what to follow: the tenor of which Decree, for so much as it did concern the reformation of the Houses of Courts, and principal places to be thought and considered of, he wished might be inserted into the Law. The motion was well liked, and he required to bring the same the next day, which was done.

M^r Norton shewed, that where many men be, there must be many minds, and in consultations convenient it is, to have contrary opinions, contrary reasons and contradictions; thereby the rather to wrest out the best: but this by the rule of reasoning, and reason must be sine jurgiis: he then said, that not only the external and outward show is to be sought, but the very secrets of the heart in Gods cause, who is scrutator Cordium, must come to a reckoning. And the good Seed so sifted from the Cockle, that the one may be known from the other. A man Baptized is not to be permitted among us for a Jew. And here somewhat slipping from the matter inSpeech, he moved, that all suspected for Papistry might make this Oath, That they did acknowledge the Queen to be Queen, for any thing the Pope in any respect might do, noting some imperfection in the former Oath. To this end, quoth he, are the Bulls now sent to discharge men of their Allegiance, and to give free pardon of sins; so that he, who thus should be pardoned, should from henceforth in no sort Communicate with the Professors of the Gospel; and now (quoth he) the very touchstone of trial, who be those Rebellious Calves, whom the Bull hath begotten, must be the receiving of the Communion; which who so shall refuse, we may justly say, he savoureth, &c. And men are not otherwise to be known but by the external sign. To Answer and satisfy the Dilemma objected before in the first day, made concerning the disorders of certain Ministers, in saying of the Service contrary to the instruction of the Book; he wished, this Proviso might be added, that mistaking of Chapters, misreading, &c. should be recovered as no offence, so that there be no Mass-Song, or Popish Service used in Latin, &c. And thus the Bill rested to be further considered of.

p. 178These preceeding Speeches being thus transcribed out of the aforesaid Anonymous imperfect Journal, a great part of the residue of this days passages, do now next ensue, out of the Original Journal-Book of the House of Commons, in manner and form following.

The Committees for the Bill of Treasons, were appointed to meet in the Star-Chamber, upon Tuesday next, between two and three of the Clock in the Afternoon.

The Bill for Bristol was brought in by M^r Comptroller, corrected in form, but not in substance or matter.

M^r Serjeant Barham and M^r Attorney General, declared that the Lords desire that some of this House be sent presently to them for Conference; whereupon it was Ordered, that all the Privy-Council, being of this House, Sir Christopher Heydon, M^r Wilson, Sir John Thynne, Sir Nicholas Arnold, Sir Henry Gate, Sir Henry Norrice, M^r Audrian Stocks, M^r Recorder of London, M^r Fleetwood, M^r Serjeant Manwood, M^r Serjeant Lovelace, M^r Henry Knolles Sen., M^r Heneage, M^r Bell, M^r Mounson, M^r Norton, and M^r Yelverton, shall presently repair unto their Lordships: who so did, and thereupon brought report to this House from the Lords, that as the Season of the Year waxed very hot, and dangerous for sickness, so they desired, that this House would spend the time in proceeding with necessary Bills for the Common-Wealth, and lay aside all private Bills in the mean time. Vide Apr. 26. Thursday postea.