Truth with Time, Answers · Answer 8
Anſwer to the tenth Reaſon.
Nor can I ſee, as you ſuppoſe, an abſurdity in aſſerting the Vials begun, and the effects of them, (as we have ſaid) ſeeing one Vial perfects another, as the following doth the foregoing.
Repl. If any man ſpeak, let him ſpeak as the Oracles of God, 1 Pet. 4.11. For my part, I had rather obſerve how things are expreſſed in the Scriptures, then the liberty which men take in their Expoſition. That one Vial ſhall perfect another, &c. I am ſure this is not in the text; neither to be gathered from it, as I conceive. When the firſt Vial hath been poured out upon the earth, where is it ſaid that the ſecond, third, fourth, &c. ſhall follow, to perfect the work upon that ſubject? or what Reaſon is there for ſuch an inference?
Some, in opening theſe Vials, allude to waters; when one ſtream falls into another, and theſe two into a third; here is no running backward: for though the waters are increas'd, yet their courſe is ſtill forward. It is true, the firſt Vial having perfected its work, (as going forward) may fall in with the ſecond; and ſo theſe two, (the effects of the ſecond being perfected) with the third: but that the ſecond or third ſhall run backward; as the ſimilitude taken from waters, is againſt humane reaſon, ſo this againſt divine Truth, in my underſtanding. Now upon this miſtake it is, that many good men ground their opinion, that the Vials begun to be poured out by Waldo, Wickliff, Luther, &c. as taking it for granted, that one Vial perfects another, as the following doth the foregoing: But the Word of God juſtifies no ſuch opinion; neither ſhall the earth, as the ſubject of the firſt Vial, have any other poured out upon it; neither is it to be thought needful, no more then when perſons or things are once deſtroyed, to ſay they muſt be put down again by others after.
Mr. Tilling. his fifth Propoſition is, That the effects of one Vial do oft-times run into another Vial. I anſwer: The effects of each Vial, are the evils or ſufferings themſelves which lie upon the enemies of God, and their works, by reaſon of the wrath of God formerly poured out; as ſores, blood, ſcorching men with heat, darkneſs, &c. Now how ſuch evils or ſufferings do run one into another, I underſtand not. He ſaith, My meaning is, the immediate following Vial, or the Vial following that, may ſometimes be poured out, before the effects of the fore-going Vial are wholly ceaſed. This I grant: As for example, Before the effects of the firſt Vial (whoſe ſubject is the earth) are ceaſed, the ſecond Vial may begin to be poured out upon the ſea: So the third Vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters, before the effects of the ſecond are over. But hence it will not follow, That the ſecond Vial, whoſe proper ſubject is the ſea, ſhall fall upon the earth; or the fourth, whoſe ſubject is the ſun, upon the third, viz. the rivers and fountains of waters, as one Vial to perfect another: This is onelyonly ſuppoſed, and the holy Ghoſt ſeems to carry it quite otherwiſe: for he diſtinguiſheth both the Angels, Subjects, and effects; and puts them all a part. Whereas, to take it in the other way, viz. one Vial perfecting another; here is meer confuſion: Here earth is no more the ſubject of the firſt Vial, then of the ſecond; nor ſea the ſubject of the ſecond Vial, more then of the third or fourth.
Anſw. 2. Seeing the two Witneſſes have power to ſmite with the plagues, Rev. 11.5. before their ſlaughter, yet have not power to end any of the Beaſts dominion in any one ſtreet, till after their riſe, verſ. 13. becauſe till then, the ſpirit of life which does ſo, comes not into them; and till then, the end of the 42 months, or Beaſts period, is not ended; and therefore it is, that their plagues in the 42 months are more defective, and at the end of the 42 months more perfective: for until then, they could plague, but not period the Beaſts Government in any ſtreet; ſo that no wonder if the Beaſts Tyranny be ſtill up in one kinde or other, till the end comes.
Repl. Here are ſtill ſuppoſitions one after another. 1. One Vial perfects another. 2. The ſackcloth-Witneſſes are the Angels, Rev. 15.3. Before their ſlaughter, defective; after, more perfective, &c. Theſe being onelyonly Conjectures, without proof, I ſhall ſay the leſs.
But 1. If Groſthead, Armachan, Huſs, &c. were ſuch brave Champions, and had all thoſe Characters, Rev. 15.2, 3, 4, 5, 6. and Chap. 14.2, 3, 4. I cannot ſee how they were without the ſpirit of life, Chap. 11.11. Neither ſo defective: for, in my opinion, the ſpirit of life is no other, then what in Chap. 15 & 16 is expreſſed in particulars.
2. To ſay, The Witneſſes could plague, but not period; it is as much as to ſay, They were not the Angels, Rev. 15. For every Vial ſhall period; neither doth the laſt period more or further then its proper ſubject.
3. If you mean, by end, the last Vial, (as I perceive you do, by what follows) therein I differ: for the Beast's dominion ſhall end with the fifth Vial. And howſoever there ſhall be a party at the Armageddon-battel, gathered together for the cauſe and intereſt of the Beaſt; yet as to his Kingdom and power that was broken before, Rev. 18. We know whoſe Houſe and Family is caſt out of this Nation, yet there are ſome (had they oportunity) would willingly engage to raiſe it up again out of the aſhes. So here.
I know the Beast and falſe Prophet, Rev. 16.13. & 19.20. is taken for one: by Beast, the Civil power; by falſe Prophet, the Eccleſiaſtical. But I think, in both places, by the falſe Prophet, is meant Mahumet, that is, the Turkiſh dominion or State: 1. Becauſe it is not probable, that ſo conſiderable a matter ſhould be left out; which muſt be, if it be not here. 2. In both places, where the falſe Prophet is mentioned, the things properly belong to the Mahumetans, and fall under the last Vials, viz. the great Army of Gog and Magog; God's judgments upon them, and Iſrael's victory, Ezek. 38 & 39. 3. Neither doth the title, That falſe Prophet, belong ſo fitly to any, as to that monſter Mahumet. Hence, ſince his riſing, he hath been uſually ſo call'd. 4. Whereas the working of miracles in Rev. 19.20. is referr'd (not to the Beast, but) to the falſe Prophet; this much ſtrengthens (methinks) the ſenſe. For at this time, Satans greateſt workings will be among the Turks, with all power, and ſignes, and lying wonders. As a Tyrant, having loſt ſeveral ſtrong holds, he ſeeks to maintain, by what ſupply he hath, ſuch other Forts and Caſtles as yet are in his hands: ſo Satan, being driven out of his Weſtern hold, and nothing left him, in a manner, but the falſe Prophets dominion: here he will be working all the Miracles and lying Wonders he can, to draw multitudes to him. And howſoever Babylon be fallen, yet the Beast is ſaid to be with the falſe Prophet, becauſe of a party joyning then with the Turks, to raiſe up the ruines of the Great citie, or the Beasts dominion again.
Anſw. 3. Sure it is from an abſurdity, becauſe the holy Ghoſt gives not that note of perfection, till the laſt, Rev. 16.17. and then he ſaith, It is finiſhed: and therefore the laſt muſt needs make perfect all the other, in all ſtreets and nations, and put a full period to all Tyranny and Idolatry: which we cannot ſay of the firſt. Beſides, the laſt Vial is the moſt univerſal and thorow alſo. Now the Reaſon why the four laſt Vials make a more thorow work then the three firſt, I gave before; becauſe the end of the Beaſts dominion is now come, which was not in the former.
Repl. 1. I think the Abſurdity (if any be) remains ſtill, for any thing is ſaid to the contrary. It was objected, that when all the Vials are poured out, nothing may be ſignified, &c. To which we have this Anſwer: The holy Ghoſt at the laſt (and not before) ſaith, It is finiſhed. Now what is finiſhed, but the work and effect of each Angel and Vial? That is, as the firſt Angel, in witneſſing againſt Idolatry and Tyranny, poured out his Vial, and therein (as a brave Champion) did his duty, howbeit Tyranny and Idolatry continued ſtill: ſo the reſt, one after another: And having thus trampled upon the Beaſt, and beat him before them, as the firſt did; a voice at laſt ſhall be heard, It is done. And may not all this be, and yet earth, ſea, ſun, &c. remain ſtill?
2. Methinks it is ſtrangely gathered, Becauſe the holy Ghoſt ſaith, It is finiſhed; therefore the laſt muſt needs make perfect all the other, &c. One Scholar may anſwer for the reſt, that they have all done their Parts or Exerciſes, and yet it is poſſible every one might perfect his own work.
3. In granting that the end of the Beaſts dominion was not come in the three firſt Vials, you muſt needs grant, (if I am not extremely miſtaken) that no Vials are yet poured out. For, as the end of the Beasts dominion is not till after the fourty and two months; ſo the last plagues begin not till then: he is not grown full enough for the Vials, (to uſe your own words) till thoſe months be expired.