Truth with Time, Answers · Answers
A few words to your Queries.
To the firſt, I anſwer: The one of the living creatures, (for I like not the name of Beasts; nor is it foreign, but foreign, Rev. 15.7. & 4.6. Living creatures, or Cherubims, as Ezek. 1.5.) Now this one I will not ſay, as ſome do think, to ſignifie the firſt (which is the Lion) in this place; though in ſome places it doth, Dan. 10.13. Mar. 16.2. eſpecially when we ſpeak in order of number, with others, as Rev. 6.1. But ſo it is not in Rev. 15.7. Wherefore here I rather incline to the last; as Rev. 21.9. there came one of the ſeven Angels, is meant the last of the ſeven: ſo here, one of the living creatures, I do believe is meant the last of the four animals: and ſo the holy Ghost ſignifies, by bringing up all with ONE, or the ONE, as the ſum, or utmoſt, or concluding number of all. Beſides this, it agrees very well with the deſcription: for the laſt is the flying Eagle, Rev. 4.7. who gave (I conceive) the Vials to the ſeven Angels, for theſe Reaſons.
1. For that it is a bird of a moſt excellent ſpirit; and the meaning is, That moſt excellent ſpirits muſt manage all thoſe Vials; and the Angels under this Eagle-adminiſtration from the Throne, will be full of ſagacity, quick ſent, and apprehenſion, &c. See Job 39.27, 29.
Then 2. for that the Eagle is ſwift, and ſo the most ſutable of all the four living creatures, to give the Vials, for the ſwiftneſs of his diſpenſations in the Vial-days, eſpecially when the two Witneſſes are up.
3. For that he is ſo full of courage, that he fears not to ſet upon the Great Beaſt; and ſo will the executors of the Vials fall upon the Greateſt of the earth, yea the great Beaſt whom the earth hath worſhipped, feared and adored.
4. For that the way of the Eagle is a ſtrong and unknown way, Prov. 30.19. and ſo the moſt ſutable to give out the Vials, which will be executed in ſtrange and unknown ways, or untrodden paths.
5. For that he will flie full to the ſun, with eyes open; and goes out to his prey at noon-day: and ſo will the Vials be openly in the ſight of the ſun; and thoſe that pour them out, will be open-eyed, and move in the full light of the work, with their faces to Jeſus Chriſt, and eying the ſun of righteouſneſs, Mal. 4.
6. He is called, the flying Eagle: for he hath his neſt on high in the rock; and ſoaring ſo, he falls from on high right down upon his prey: And ſo will this Vial-work fall from above, upon the heads of them under it, Hoſ. 8.1. and there is no eſcaping it. The Eagle falls ſuddenly, in the twinkling of an eye, (ſay ſome) upon his prey.
7. For that he is accounted the King of birds: and ſo the Vials are all the wrath of God and the Lamb, or the King of Saints.
8. The Eagles prey is blood, or the carcaſes of them killed, Job 39.30. where the ſlain are, there is ſhe, Luk. 17.37. And ſo he is the ſutable adminiſtrator from the throne, to give out the Vials, which turn waters into blood, and pour ſlaughter upon the Beaſts followers.
9. It appears to me, it is the Eagle too, by the contents of what judgements he hath to ſhew, in Rev. 6.7, 8, 9. unto the end. All bring what the four living creatures or Eagle ſaith, Come and ſee, unto (viz.) the ſword, famine, death, hell, (all which will fall on the Beaſt by thoſe Vials, Rev. 18.8. & 19.20.) and the wrath of the Lamb, Rev. 16.16. & 17.14.
10. It appears yet further to me, in the order of the four living creatures, and their ſeveral times and works, expreſſed by the holy Ghoſt, Rev. 6.1, 2. the firſt ſaid, Come and ſee, to his conquering with the Goſpel in the Nations: and this was in the primitive times of the ten perſecutions, or before the Beaſt roſe: for the Saints were then under a moſt lion-like, noble, couragious, Angel-like ſpirit. The ſecond, v. 3, 4. ſaid, Come and ſee, to the Red horſe, or Scarlet beaſt, Rev. 17.3. wherein the Riders had a great ſword to ſlay us: this was in the Beaſts riſe and crowning, by cruel perſecutions, murthers, and maſſacres of the Saints; and ſo they were under the miniſtration of the ſecond living creature, (I conceive) like a Calf for Butchery and ſlaughter. 3. V. 5, 6. the third living creature ſaid, Come and ſee, to him that had the balances to weigh in time of great ſcarcity of God's own bread; onelyonly the oil and wine (as the anointing) were preſerved: and this I think was the miniſtration which the two Witneſſes were under in their Sackcloth-propheſying, who had the face and grace of a man. But now 4. the Eagle is the miniſtrator under whom the Angels of the Vials are: and ſo the two Witneſſes, in that ſtate or predicament, are under the Eagle, who flieth high, ſtrong, clear, ſwift, &c. which appears to me to be the flying Eagle that gives them out, for that they are to reach over all Nations, and to flie over all; which the flying Angel (who flies with the Goſpel over every nation, kindred, tongue and people) prepares, Rev. 14.6, 7, 12. And it ſeems to me the laſt living creature, becauſe the plagues are the laſt plagues which are in the Vials, Rev. 15.5. So that for theſe Reaſons, I have hinted my thoughts unto your firſt Querie.
Repl. I have no intent to meddle with things beſides the Point in hand; neither ſhall I ſpeak much here.
But, 1. The Anſwerer (I think) miſſeth the Queſtion: for it was not queried which of the four Beaſts (or living creatures, as he rather chuſeth) gives out the Vials: But, if by the Angel pouring out the firſt Vial, Waldo, Wickcliff, Groſthead, Armachan, or Luther, be meant; who then is the one of the living creatures that delivers the Vial to them? that is, how are theſe men, in publiſhing the Goſpel, VIAL-ANGELS, and alſo the living creature or Eagle that puts the Vial into their hands?
2. Concerning this large diſcourſe of the flying Eagle, and Eagle-adminiſtration, here is enough ſaid (the premiſes granted) to ſhew, that no Vial is yet poured out.
For, 1. Muſt all the Vials be managed by moſt excellent ſpirits, men full of ſagacity, quick ſent and apprehenſion? Such then have not been yet, ſince the riſe of the Beaſt: Though we ſee light and day at the dawning, yet is not the ſame full and moſt excellent, till a while after. I grant, ſome of the perſons fore-mentioned were good men; but yet had not moſt excellent ſpirits, were not complete and full to manage any of the Vials.
2. For ſwiftneſs of diſperſations in the Vial-days, what can be more evidently againſt you then this; viz. that in eight or nine-hundred years, (for ſo long it is ſince the Vials began, according to your Grounds) very little ſhould be done as to the deſtroying of the groſſer part of Popery; methinks it rather carries the likeneſs of a ſnail ſlowly creeping over the earth, then the ſwiftneſs of an Eagle flying in the air.
3. For courage and boldneſs, this is no more then what the Antichriſtians had: Sometimes the victory hath gone on our ſide, otherwhile on theirs. But if the Swethen King were a Vial-Angel, it's ſtrange he ſhould be ſlain in the War: for my opinion is, that none of the ſeven Angels which have their breſts girded with golden girdles, Rev. 15.6. ſhall fall by the hand of their enemy, or at any time loſe the Victory.
4. If the way of the Vials be ſtrange and unknown, then were not the perſons ſo often named, the pourers of them out: for neither Waldo, Huſs, Luther, King of Sweth, &c. went in untrodden paths; but what they ſaid or did, they had Preſidents and Examples before; and ſo were followers of others in known and trodden paths.
5. Will thoſe who pour out Vials be open-eyed, and move in the FULL LIGHT of their work? how then can it be fairly applied to ſuch men as ſate in darkneſs, ſaw little of the things of Chriſt, practiſed moſt groſs idolatry, and, for ſome of them, had not their faces to Jeſus Chriſt, eying the ſun of righteouſneſs; but their own private advantages?
6. That the Eagle falls ſuddenly in the twinkling of an eye (as it were) upon his prey; it is very true, and ſutable to the Vial-miniſtration: for ſurely when that Work begins, it ſhall go ſpeedily and proſperouſly on, without obſtruction or let, and all done in a little time. Ergo, &c.
7. If the Vials are all wrath, even the wrath of God and the Lamb; then could not Waldo or Luther pour any forth in preaching the doctrine of the Goſpel. I have ſhewed before, that whatſoever the Sackcloth-witneſſes did in ſmiting the earth with plagues, it was onelyonly by reproof; as Pſal. 141.5. Prov. 19.25. It is true, through unbelief and hardneſs of heart, the Lord afterward brought real plagues upon the wicked world, and will bring many more (and greater) in the Vials.
The Eighth is anſwered before, viz. in what ſenſe the Sackcloth-Witneſſes turned waters into blood.
For the Ninth and Tenth Reaſons, what is there applied to the Eagle, is more againſt the Anſwerer then the reſt. For if under the ſecond living creature like a Calf, be meant the cruel perſecutions, murthers, and maſſacres of the Saints after the Beaſt roſe; then cannot the Eagle-miniſtration be brought up to the time of the Beaſts reign: for who are the Saints then butchered, if not the Sackcloth-Witneſſes? Therefore, to ſay that at one time they ſhould be under the miniſtration of the ſecond living creature, viz. like a Calf for butchery; and under the adminiſtration of the fourth living creature, namely, the flying Eagle, in ſmiting and killing their enemies; this cannot be: neither is there any method, order, or reaſon kept (in my opinion) in this fourfold miniſtration; unleſs the Eagle-time be underſtood after the riſing of the Witneſſes.
Beſides, the Anſwerer in his words following, grants as much, ſaying, It ſeems to me, the laſt living creature, becauſe the plagues are the laſt plagues which are in the Vials. If the Witneſſes, before their riſing, did pour out the laſt plagues; who before them poured out the firſt plagues upon the Beaſts dominion? Now here I ſee no reaſon why any ſhould begin thoſe laſt plagues, either at Luther or Waldo, and leave out the Sackcloth-Witneſſes before their times. I ſhall here in brief ſet down what hath been publikely witneſſed againſt the Beaſt many years before either of them.
In the year 1126 (which was fourty years before Waldo) Peter Bruis, ſometime a Prieſt, was ſo zealouſly earneſt againſt the groſſer parts of Popery, as firſt in the Dioceſs of Arles, of Ambrun, and of Gap; then after, throughout all Auvergne, Languedoc, and Guien, he boldly and openly preached againſt Tranſubſtantiation, the Sacrifice of the Maſs, Maſſes, Suffrages, and Oblations for the dead, Purgatory, Worſhipping of Images, Invocation of Saints, Single life of Prieſts, Pilgrimages, Superſtitious Holy-days, Conſecrations of Waters, Oil, Frankincenſe, & other Romiſh traſh. And withal, ſharply inveighed againſt the pride and exceſs of the Pope and his Prelates, whom he called Princes of Sodom; and the Church of Rome he termed Babylon, and the mother of Fornication and confuſion. For which glorious Teſtimony, he was burnt to aſhes.
About the ſame time, there was one Henry a diſciple of his, who as publikely declared againſt the Blaſphemies of the Beaſt; for which they were ſo mad and enrag'd, as being taken, he was bound in Chains, and ſent by Albertus Cardinal of Oſtia into Italy, where it is thought he was ſecretly murdered: for he was never ſeen nor heard of afterwards.
So in the year 1125. one Arnulph, a zealous and devout man, for reproving the Looſneſs, Covetouſneſs, Pride, and other Vices of the Clergie, was at Rome, by their wicked hands, cruelly murdered.
Again, Anno 855. (before Waldo three hundred years) Grontier Archbiſhop of Collen, and Thietgaud of Trevers, with their Colleagues, gave forth this Teſtimony to the world againſt the Pope, and ſent it to him: Thou art (ſay they) a Wolf unto the Sheep, a Murderer of the Living, and one which thruſteſt men into hell: Thou beareſt the ſhew of a Biſhop, but art a very Tyrant: Thou art in habit a Paſtor, in heart a Wolf: Thy Title promiſeth as a Father, but in thy Deeds thou carrieſt as a God: (alluding to the place in 2 Theſſ. 2.4.) Thou calleſt thy ſelf, A ſervant of ſervants; and ſeekeſt by all means to become a Lord of lords: and conſequently, according to the doctrine of our Saviour, thou art the leaſt of all the Miniſters of Gods Church, who yet in thy ambition runneſt headlong to perdition; thinking every thing lawful to be done, which pleaſeth thee. We care not for thy words; we fear not thy Bulls, nor yet thy Thunders, &c.
Yea more, Anno 734. Albertus Gallus, and Clemens Scotus, and many other learned men in France and Germany, withſtood the Pope in Reliques, Images, Single life, Purgatory, Supremacie; and openly call'd the Pope the author of Lyes, the diſturber of Peace and Piety, and the corrupter of Chriſtian Doctrine. So Claudius Biſhop of Taurin, Anno 799.
I forbear to mention Bertram, Anno 812. and the Biſhop of Florence, Anno 1114. and many others, who long before Waldo, were condemned of Hereſie, for teaching and writing againſt the groſſer parts of Popery, as Tranſubſtantiation, Purgatory, Images, Maſſes, Pilgrimages; and aſſerting the Pope to be Antichriſt, &c.
So then, if the firſt Vial be to be underſtood of the Sackcloth-Witneſſes ſpeaking againſt the groſſer part of Popery; the time cannot begin at Luther nor Waldo, but with the Witneſſes before. For (as I ſaid) there is no reaſon why ſuch flying Eagles ſhould be left out, who were as high, valiant, quick, and publike againſt the Beast, (eight or nine hundred years paſt) as were Armachan, or Grosthead, or the like. In a word therefore, how theſe can be the last plagues begun ſo long agone, to wit, when the Sackcloth-Witneſſes begun firſt to ſmite the earth, (which I think I can make it appear, was aſſoon as the Beast did riſe) I ſhall leave it to the READER'S judgement.
Anſw. Your ſecond Queſtion is anſwered before. For I cannot ſee how any Angel can be ſingle perſons, but the Witneſſes principally, and the remnant of the womans ſeed as auxiliaries and aſsiſting.
Repl. 1. Neither doth the Anſwerer here come home to the Queſtion. For the Queſtion is not ſo much, Whether a ſingle perſon or a number be meant, as concerning the condition of the perſons (few or many) which are to pour out the Vials. As for Example: If the Swethen Army poured out the ſecond Vial, as the Angel mentioned Rev. 16.3. then may the Vial-Angels or Inſtruments, which ſhall pour out the laſt plagues, be viſibly profane and wicked perſons; which is contrary to Rev. 15.3, 4, 5, 6. That no ſingle perſon is meant by any Angel, I agree with the Anſwerer. But mark then, in taking the Swethen Souldiers to be the ſecond Angel, it muſt follow, that each Angel may be made up (a part at leaſt) of Idolaters, Adulterers, Swearers, Drunkards, and moſt leud wretches: But I think not ſo. For though no Angel be a ſingle perſon, yet my opinion is, that all the perſons which ſhall make up each Angel, ſhall be ſanctified ones, called, and choſen, and faithful, Rev. 17.18.
2. Either the Anſwerer or Replyer is much miſtaken concerning the Vials: for I do not think, that either the two Witneſſes, or the Remnant of the womans ſeed, to be any of the ſeven Angels, Rev. 15.
Otherwiſe then, thus: The fourty and two months of the Beaſts reign being out, one hundred fourty and four thouſand are upon their work. It is true, the ſpirit of life from God enters into them: but this is to be underſtood diſtinct from the remnant, Rev. 12.17. and after the riſing of the Witneſſes.
Anſw. To the third Queſtion: I confeſs, it is my judgment, that the ſong of the Lamb, Rev. 15.3. and that ſong, Chap. 14.3. are one and the ſame; and that Hallelujahs are the effects of the Vials: but with this caution, That the ſong having ſeveral parts and degrees, is not ſung all at once; but as the victory ariſeth, and grows higher and higher over the Beaſt, in every generation the ſong goes on, as the effect of every Vial in its degree and proportion, for the redeemed at that day to ſing, i. e. redeemed from among men, Rom. 14.4.
Repl. We are here ſo agreed, as I hope we ſhall no more differ about the beginning of the Vials. You grant, it is one and the ſame Song. For the Caution, I ſhall wave it, viz. about parts and degrees, as nothing material: but for the Song, Rev. 14. it is doubtleſs after the Witneſſes are riſen. Now you ſay, It is the ſame ſong, (which muſt be in reſpect of time and perſons, or it's not ſenſe) then, I ſay, it muſt needs be after the riſing of the Witneſſes. Behold how good and how pleaſant a thing it is for brethren to dwell even together! Pſal. 133.1.
Anſw. The fourth Question hath had a full Anſwer before.
Repl. Through miſtake, this is the ſixth Querie, p. 17. The Reader ſhall have the Anſwer and Reply, pag. 52, 53, 54, 55, &c.
In the Copie which my friend had, the fifth Querie was thus: To mention but one effect of the Vials ſuppoſed to be poured out, viz. the effect of the ſecond Vial on the ſea, in which every living thing died: now the queſtion is, How this was fulfilled either by the Parliament in England, or the Germane war, or any other way, as it is applied unto things paſt.
To which the Anſwer is thus: Under the ſecond Vial, every living thing in that ſea (that was turned into blood) died a civil death, and ſtank like the dead fiſhes, Exod. 7.18. Iſai. 50.2. Pſal. 105.29. Every living ſoul in that ſea, that lived, moved, ſwimmed, and delighted in it, as well the Clergical as Laical, were under the wrath of this Vial. As Beza ſaith, Whatſoever living creature, foreign, which is taken for every kinde; and ſo every one, whether Martial, Civil, or Eccleſiaſtical, died a civil death, yea, and a ſpiritual alſo; the ſea being brought into a filthy ſavour to all living ones, or the people of God, by this Vial. Now all that ſtayed in the ſea, ſo died. Wherefore I finde it true, that every ſoul, i. e. referr'd to the ſubject-matter of this Vial, died. For, as Chemnitius ſaith, ſuch particulae univerſales non in infinitum extendentur, ſed ad materiam ſubjectam reſtringuntur.
Repl. I conceive the Anſwerer intends here the Swethen war; but he names none. And it was better to forbear the name of perſons, time, action, or Country: for it may be as well applied to France, England, Holland, Bohemia, as Germany.
But 1. Though it be true, a number of Papiſts died in that War, yet for ought I know, as many of the other party. Beſides, things afterward came to that paſs, as the PROTESTANTS had more Loſs then Advantage by that War.
2. I do not know what you mean by a ſpiritual death: if you mean, as to ſin, they were as dead before, and ſo not ſlain by the Vial. If you apply it to a ſecond death, it is beyond my line.
3. There was as filthy ſavour before that War, and ſince, as then: very little was done that time, either to increaſe or abate the ſtink.
4. What fiſh ſoever died in that Sea, (turned into blood) it ſoon multiplied again: it ſeems the Sea was not very bloody; for the fiſh increas'd and multiplied as faſt as before.
5. I think there is as little ground to carry the ſecond Vial to the Swethen war, as by earth to underſtand the groſſer part of Popery.
Laſtly, I cannot believe that the Swethen Army were ever in the Temple of God, and from thence went forth clothed in pure and fine linen, &c. with golden Vials.
Beſides, to deliver my opinion freely, (and I think moſt men now are of my opinion) for that Swethen War, more fitly may it be ſet forth under Kytes and Ravens, then by the Eagle, as the Anſwerer hath deſcribed that King of birds.
The ſixth and last Question which my friend had (for the Book hath more then he ſaw) was this: Whereas ſome reſtrain the riſing of the Witneſſes to the fourth Vial, others to the fifth, we queſtion what Reaſons and Grounds ſuch have; and why may not the riſing of the Witneſſes and firſt Vial contemporize?
To which the Anſwer is: Why the riſing of the two Witneſſes and the firſt Vial may not contemporize, I have anſwered before: that I begun with your Queries.
Repl. The difference between us is ſtated here. I think, the riſing of the Witneſſes, and the beginning of the Vials, contemporize. The Anſwerer is otherwiſe minded, and refers his Reader to what he hath written before. For my part, I do the ſame, and have done for this time. Now if I hear that this which is done be acceptable and uſeful to the Saints waiting for the coming of our Lord Jeſus Chriſt, for whoſe … I have publiſhed it, I ſhall (by the good hand of God aſſiſting me) according to that light which the Father of lights hath given in the Vials, ſpeedily ſet forth an Expoſition of them; it being already prepared for that purpoſe.
FINIS.
Courteous Reader,
BY reaſon of the Author's far diſtance from the Preſs, more Faults have eſcaped than either He or the Printer could have wiſh'd: ſome of the chief are theſe: Viz.
ERRATA.
The Title over the Pages, ſhould be onelyonly (as you finde it towards the latter end of the Book) Truth with Time. P. 14. in marg. at the letter a, read, Of this opinion are many good men. P. 16. l. 31. read, to ſing the ſong. P. 31. l. 18. for rather, r. neither. P. 32. l. 30. you muſt take that Anſwer to be the anſwer to the ſecond Reaſon. P. 50. l. 1. leave out Mr. T…ll.
Other Miſtakes there are, which thou art deſired to take notice of, and correct thy ſelf.
End of the text · John Canne, Truth with Time (1656)