Truth with Time, Reasons – Answers
Time with Truth tryed: OR, Certain Reaſons to prove that none of the ſeven last Plagues or Vials are yet poured out; neither will the time of their pouring out begin, till after the riſing of the Witneſſes, and the one thouſand two hundred and ſixty days, or fourty and two months of the Beast's Reign be expired.
I Am not ignorant, how much it doth ſavour of affecting Singularity, to publiſh a new Doctrine, as the Athenians ſaid of Paul; Acts 18.19.eſpecially being a thing contrary to the common received opinion of good men. But here I have not onelyonly my own Conſcience to witneſs otherwiſe for me; but I hope, amongſt all ſuch as are wiſe, and truly godly, I ſhall finde better and more charitable thoughts, when they have duly weighed the Grounds of this ſuppoſed New Doctrine.
That none of the ſeven last Plagues are yet poured out, c&. it ſeems to be a Truth, for theſe Reaſons.
Reaſ. 1 Firſt: If that be granted, which Mr Tillinghast and others affirm, that by the hundred fourty and four thouſand, But that I think Mr Till. opinion here is not queſtioned by waiting Saints, otherwiſe I could give many Reaſons, that the riſing of the Witneſſes, and the 144000, do contemporize.Rev. 14.1. the Gentile-Saints are ſignified; and their ſtanding on mount Sion with the Lamb, is to be after the riſing of the Witneſſes; then I think there will be very little reaſon to carry the beginning of the ſeven last Vials any higher, For though it be the opinion of learned and godly men, that ſome of the Vials are poured out; yet ſo, as they hold likewiſe, that the hundred fourty and four thouſand have already ſtood with the Lamb on mount Sion. And indeed, this hath Reaſon and weight in it, That where we begin the time of the one hundred fourty and four thouſand, there we ſhould alſo take the beginning of the Vials. And the order of the matter ſeems to make this clear. The holy Ghoſt having, chap. 14. ſpoken of the Harvest and Vintage, that is, what ſore plagues the Lord will bring upon Babylon and the followers of the Beast; comes preſently, in chap. 15 & 16, to ſhew how, and by what means, the earth ſhall be reaped, the cluſters gathered, and cast into the great wine-preſs of Gods wrath; namely, ſeven Angels ſhall come out of the Temple, having the ſeven last plagues, &c. So then, to take the one hundred fourty and four thouſand to be after the Witneſſes are riſen; and to begin the pouring out of the Vials before the Witneſſes are riſen, in my underſtanding, it is very improper to the ſcope and drift of the Prophecie, and croſſeth that excellent order which the Spirit ſeems to obſerve.
Reaſ. 2 Secondly: I do not conceive (under favour) how the pouring out of Plagues, and Vials full of divine wrath, in any good ſence, and according to Scripture-uſe, may be applied to, and underſtood of the preaching of the glad tidings of the Goſpel. Truly I think, that the publiſhing of the ſweet and moſt precious ſoul-ſaving Truths of Jeſus, all the time of the the Beasts reign, even the fourty and two months, or one thouſand two hundred and ſixty days, is in another way, and by other words expreſſed; and not by Vials full of wrath: See Rev. 10.9, 10, 11. And therefore by the ſeven last plagues filled up with the wrath of God, Rev. 15.1. I underſtand real and proper plagues, and not the preaching of the Goſpel, either by Grosthead, Wickliff, Luther, Calvin, &c. but rather ſuch temporal plagues as ſhall be in the laſt days poured out upon wicked men, for deſpiſing and perſecuting the Truth:No doubt the Alleluiahs, Revel. 19.1, 2, 3, &c. are for what was done under the firſt, ſecond & third Vials, as for the effects of the reſt. Now how in the preaching of the Goſpel by Wickliff, Luther, &c. God avenged the blood of his ſervants on the great Whore, I do not yet ſee. In her was found the blood of the Prophets and Saints, Rev. 18.24.
It is true, Luther and others, in diſcovering the corruptions of perſons and things, and lifting up their voices like Trumpets, againſt the abominations of their Maſſes, Croſſes, Indulgences, Purgatory, Penance, Pilgrimage, &c. did therein take the little book, and propheſied before many people, nations and tongues. That they did this, we have the Word to believe it: but that in preaching the Word of life, and opening the Goſpel of the Kingdom, to the ignorant and blinde world, by which means multitudes were brought from darkneſs to light, and from Idols to the ſerving of the living and true God:Obſerv, it is not ſaid, that the effects of the Vials ſhall be wrath, or turn to wrath; but, In them is filled up the wrath of God. That in this (I ſay) they poured out Vials filled up with the wrath of God, I cannot ſo take it; neither have I ſeen Reaſons and Grounds why it ſhould be ſo underſtood.
Reaſ. 3 But thirdly: Suppoſe it be granted, there is a Vial of wrath poured out, (which to me ſounds harſhly) and that Wickliff, Huſs, Ierome of Prague, Luther, &c. were the Angels; The queſtion then is, Who before them poured out their Vials upon the earth: For it is ſaid, Theſe ſeven Angels had the ſeven last plagues; ſignifying, that there were Plagues before; although for time, perſons, matter, and manner of proceeding, and other circumſtances, unlike.
Beſides, I ſee no reaſon, why ſome will have the pouring out of the Vials to begin at Luther; others, at Armachan the Iriſh Biſhop; ſome, at Robert Groſthead Biſhop of Lincoln. To me their opinion ſeems fairer, (taking the Vials for the preaching of the Goſpel) who carry the thing higher, (as Mede and others) even to Waldo: yea, and why not further, as to Arnulphus, Arnoldus Brixianus, &c. who publikely witneſſed againſt the Tyranny and Primacie of the Pope, boldly reproved the wicked lives of the Prieſts; and many other faithful Witneſſes, both of*Which was about the year 1134. that time, and before? If we look into Hiſtories and Records of Nations, for ought I yet ſee, granting ſome of the Vials already poured out, viz. in witneſſing againſt the blaſphemies and beaſtly vanities of Antichriſt,Thoſe who aſſert, that ſome of the Vials are poured out, ſhould do well to give ſome Reaſons why they take their beginning from ſuch a man, or ſuch a time; and why not before or after? there is more reaſon to take their beginning 6 or 700 years paſt, then to pitch upon any perſon or perſons of later times.
Reaſ. 4 Fourthly: I have not ſeen any reaſon why ſo much time is allowed between the firſt and ſecond Vials: ſome allow a hundred years, others two,From Armach. the Iriſh Biſhop, to the Sweden Wars in Germany, is neer 300 years. Rob. Groſted Biſhop of Lincoln, was before him almoſt 100 years. Again, from Luther to our Parliament, an. 1640. was about 120 years. To the rest of the Vials there is not allowed half the time. and ſome more; namely, from the pouring out of the first Vial, to the beginning of the ſecond; and to all the reſt, not half the time. Truly I think this is worth enquiry, Why from the firſt Vial, before the ſecond begins, longer time is alotted, then to the Six other Vials.
If thoſe Vials, or last plagues, have an alluſion to the plagues of Egypt, (as it is generally held) then it is probable, when there is once a beginning, they will be ſuddenly all poured out.*Willet from Pererius collects, that within the compaſs of 27 days, or about a month, all the plagues of Egypt were finiſhed. Comment. on Exod. 7. Quest. 29. Some have obſerved from the Hiſtory in Exodus, that within the ſpace of thirty days, the ten Egyptian plagues (from the firſt to the laſt) were executed. Now if we reckon a day for a year, (as it is often in Prophetical Types) within thirty years, the ſeven last plagues of the ſeven Angels will be finiſhed. Neither is it to be doubted, but a ſhort work will the Lamb make upon the earth, Rom. 9.28. when thoſe Vials begin to be poured out. Wherefore is Babylons fall ſet forth under the ſigne of a great milſtone caſt into the ſea by a mighty Angel? Rev. 18.21. not onelyonly to denote her irrecoverable deſolation, but what ſpeedy and quick diſpatch the Lord will make, when he calls his Angels out of the Temple: Therefore ſhall her plagues come in one day, Rev. 18.8. in one hour, verſ. 10, 17, 19. in a moment, ſuddenly, Iſa. 47.9, 11.
I know, the deſtruction of Babylon, mentioned Rev. 18. is by many reſtrained to the burning of the City of Rome: but, in my opinion, there is far better Ground to take Babylon there, for the whole Kingdom and Dominion of the Beaſt everywhere: And let him that hath underſtanding read the Chapter, he ſhall clearly ſee, that it muſt be underſtood of the univerſal Antichriſtian State, even all that which is to be deſtroyed under the five first Vials. Neither do I think that any of the Vials will be poured forth till the Angel there come down from heaven, having great power, and the earth is lightned with his glory, Rev. 18.1. For it ſeems to me, as the pouring out of all the Vials will be the great work of Saints, at the time of the end; ſo the Lord will make way wonderfully for them: For they ſhall be enlightned and ſatisfied, as to the knowledge of their work and time. So then, in ſhort, I think it is a miſtake, to apply (as ſome do) the fall of Babylon to the burning of Rome; or (as others) to the*I deſire this may be well obſerved, That the fall of Babylon, Rev. 18. is to be referred to the five firſt Vials equally. Neither comes any of the 7 Angels out of the Temple, til that mighty Angel deſcend from heaven, Rev. 18.1. fifth Vial. For, as I ſaid before, there are manifeſt proofs in the Chapter, that the Kingdom and State of the Beast (everywhere) is to be underſtood; and that the other four Vials going before, concern alſo the ſame thing.
Reaſ. 5 Fifthly: Though I would be loth to detract from any, but deſire to have the memory of the Juſt bleſſed, eſpecially ſuch who have born any good Teſtimony againſt the Beast; yet I cannot conceive how any of the perſons to whom the firſt, ſecond and third Angels are ordinarily applied, do fairly or fitly parallel and agree with what the Scripture holds forth. Certain it is, none of the Angels come out of the Temple, till Iohn ſaw as it were a ſea of glaſs mingled with fire, and them that had gotten the victory over the Beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, ſtand on the ſea of glaſs, having the harps of God; and they ſing the ſong of Moſes the ſervant of God, and the ſong of the Lamb, Rev. 15.2, 3. All this well agrees with the deſcription of the one hundred fourty and four thouſand, Rev. 14.1, 2, 3. But to carry theſe things to Grostead, Armachan, Wickliff, Luther, &c. if need were, I could ſhew by many reaſons the improbabilitie of it.
There is a great difference between not receiving the mark, or the name of the Beaſt, or the number of his name; and getting the victory over the Beast, and over his image, mark, name, &c. It is true, in the former ſence, there were many of Gods people which in the time of the Beaſts reign received not his mark, &c. but that any of them, during the fourty and two months, got the Victory over the Beaſt, or over his image, mark, name, &c. to this I cannot aſſent.
Neither is their opinion well bottomed, (I ſpeak as I think) who hold, that this victory over the Beast, and ſinging the ſong of Moſes, and the ſong of the Lamb, to be before the riſing of the Witneſſes, even the time that they propheſied in ſackcloth, and whilſt the woman was ſtill in the wilderneſs.
Under favour, I think, that their opinion is better grounded, (I ſpeak as to conſonancie of parallel Scriptures) who taking the Witneſſes already riſen, do carry this victory over the Beast, and the ſong of Moſes and of the Lamb, to the time of their riſing; and ſo begin the Vials. But to hold the Witneſſes not riſen, nor the woman out of the wilderneſs, and yet to hold the victory over the Beast paſt, (the ſong of Moſes and of the Lamb, to be ſung ſome hundred yeers ago, and ſo to begin the Vials) this, to me, ſeems little leſs then evident*That the woman whilſt ſhe abode in the wilderneſs, and the Witneſſes propheſying in ſackcloth ſhould ſing the ſong of Moſes and the Lamb, it ſeems a contradiction: yet I ſee not how ſuch as hold ſome of the Vials poured out, and yet the woman not out of the wilderneſs, nor the Witneſſes riſen, can avoid it. contradiction.
Reaſ. 6 Sixthly: My opinion is, that none of the ſeven laſt plagues or Vials are yet poured forth, nor will be, till after the riſing of the Witneſſes, for this reaſon; namely, becauſe none of the ſeven Angels come forth with their golden Vials, until the Tabernacle of the Teſtimony is opened in heaven,Mede perceiving the place to be ſo directly againſt him and others who hold ſome of the Vials poured out, puts it off thus: Truly (ſaith he) that which is there ſaid of the Temple, of the Tabernacle of the Teſtimony in heaven, that appertaineth not to the beginning, but to the event of the Vials. But by his leave, he takes more then the place allows him. Rev. 15.5. But that part of the Tabernacle of the Teſtimony is to be ſhut all the time of the Witneſſes their propheſying in ſackcloth, as may be gathered from Rev. 11.1. with verſ. 19. Hence this Argument might be fram'd:
No Angel is to come forth with his golden Vial, till the
Tabernacle of the Teſtimony in heaven be opened.
But the Tabernacle of the Teſtimony is not to be opened
till after the riſing of the Witneſſes:
Therefore, no Angel with his golden Vial is to come forth
till after the riſing of the Witneſſes.
The proof of the Argument, are the Scriptures before, viz. Rev. 15.5. with Chap. 11. verſ. 1, 19. Now if any do think that the four laſt Angels ſhall come out from the Temple opened in heaven, and not the firſt three; ſuch an opinion is againſt the Text expreſly, which ſaith, that the ſeven Angels come out of the Temple, verſ. 6. Neither do I know any ground they have, who think that the Angels pouring out the four laſt Vials, ſhall have more light, zeal, faith, holineſs, &c. then the former had. There is no ſuch thing to be gathered from the Text. But if we may uſe liberty of conjecture, I ſee no reaſon (ſuppoſing pre-eminence) why the firſt ſhould not have it; as he that fights the Enemy, and engageth firſt, ſhews himſelf the moſt valiant and beſt-deſerving Souldier.
Reaſ. 7 Neither (ſeventhly) do I think, that the effects of any of the Vials (which ſome ſuppoſe are poured out,) make good what is ſaid, Rev. 15.4. For thy judgements are made Manifeſt. The place to me hath much more in it, then what followed the Doctrines & writings of Groſtead, Wickliff, Huſs, Luther, Melancthon, &c. or the Swethen wars, or the Parliament in England. For Gods judgements, notwithſtanding what hath been yet done, remain ſtill dark, doubtfull, diſputeable, &c. eſpecially to the world, wherein his Iudgements ſhall be Manifeſt in the effects of the Vials.
As the Egyptians under their plagues, though hardned in ſin, yet acknowledged the finger of God upon them, Exo. 8.19. So the followers of the Beaſt, when the Vials are poured out, notwithſtanding their blaſpheming God, and not repenting, to give him glory, ſhall ſee the hand of God lifted up, & be aſhamed for their envie at his people, Iſa. 26.11. So manifeſt at this time will his judgments be, 2 Tim. 3.9. But hitherto the*Should we in the particulars conſider, begining either at Groſtead, Armachan, Luther, &c. or where elſe, and come down to our own times, very little can be ſaid as to Gods Judgements upon the Antichriſtians yet Manifeſted. Neither did the Swethen wars nor Ours, ſignifie much as to what ſhould be Manifeſted in the effects of every Vial being poured out. providentiall appearances & Actings of God have been ſo darke and hidden, his movings ſo forward & backward, I mean as to his judgements, that ſhould we begin at Groſtead, Armachan, Luther, or anywhere elſe ſince the riſe of the Beaſt, and come down to this time, there hath been very little of Gods Judgements yet Manifeſted to his own people, much leſſe to the Enemie: And hence it is that Babylon ſaith in her heart, I ſit a Queen, and am no widow, & ſhall ſee no ſorrow, Rev. 18.7. Yea, hence it is that the Antichriſtians, in their writings, and ordinarie diſcourſes, doe ſtiffly maintain, that Gods judgements have been as manifeſt, and ſtill are, upon the witneſſes, the woman in the wilderneſſe, and all parties oppoſing them, as they are in reſpect of them. Now howſoever this may be denyed, yet hitherto we have not had matter, nor the cauſe ſo on our ſide, as by the judgments of God againſt them to put them to ſilence. But confident I am, the effects of all the Vials ſhall be ſuch (the 1. 2. 3. as well as the reſt) in the manifeſtation of Gods Judgements againſt the great whore and all her helpers, that the righteous ſhall ſee it and rejoyce, and all iniquitie ſhall ſtop her mouth, Pſa. 107.42.
Reaſ. 8 Eighthly: It is ſaid, Rev. 11.3. I will give power unto my two witneſſes, and they ſhall Propheſie 1260 days clothed in ſackcloth; neither did they put off their ſackcloth till they had finiſhed their Teſtimony, ver. 7. But theſe Angels which pour out the laſt plagues (even all 7) have put off their ſackcloth, and are clothed with pure and white linen, Rev. 15.6. hence it muſt needs follow (if I have any underſtanding of the glorious propheſies to be fulfilled in the laſt times) that neither*If any ſhall object, that Groſtead, Armachan, Huſſe, Luther, &c. in one reſpect wore ſackcloth, and in another reſpect had fine linen; I anſwer, In my opinion, this cannot be: for they never changed their condition, after they were witneſſes, but were always ſufferers for the truth to their dying day; yea ſome of them layd down their lives for it. Waldo, Wickliff, Huſſe, Luther, &c. can be meant by any of the 7 Angels clothed with white linen. For they never had their ſackcloth taken off, but wore it to their graves. What is meant by being clothed with white linen, the Scriptures ſhew, it was an enſign of honour, which great perſons uſed to weare, their condition and ſtate being changed. Gen. 41.42. Eſth. 8.15. Pro. 31.22. Ezek. 16.10. Pſa. 30.11.
The truth is, if we take not heed to diſtinguiſh between the ſackcloth-time of mourning Saints, and the time in which they are clothed with white linen, that is, raiſed out of the duſt, and ſet with Princes, even with the Princes of his people, Pſa. 113.7, 8. but confound theſe times (which ought to be kept diſtinct and apart) we ſhall want an excellent light and helpe, to bring things to their due and proper places. I cannot deny but many learned and godlie men doe carrie up the beginning of the Vials, to Luther, Melancthon, Zuinglius, and ſome higher; but withall this they hold, that Luther, and ſo the reſt, had put off their ſackcloth, the time of the 1260 days being expired, of the 2 witneſſes propheſying in ſackcloth. But to thinke, that any of the Vials ſhould be poured out, and the ſackcloth-time not out, I ſay, the witneſſes not having finiſhed their Teſtimonie, to expreſs my ſelf humblie and ſoberly, I think here is another contradiction: for there cannot be a wearing of ſackcloth and fine linen at one time, and by the ſame perſons. Neither are the ſackcloth-witneſſes againſt Babylon, the white-linen-Angels which muſt pour out the laſt plagues upon her, until they have finiſhed their Teſtimony, and after they have been ſlain ſtand upon their feet through the Spirit of life from God, entring into them.
Reaſ. 9 The 9. Reaſon I take from Rev. 18.21. And a mightie Angel tooke up a ſtone like a great milſtone, and caſt it into the ſea, ſaying, Thus with violence ſhall that great citie Babylon be thrown down, and ſhall be found no more at all. If this place belong to the Vials (as to me it ſeems moſt evident) ſurely then whatſoever is attributed to Groſtead, Armachan, Wickliff, Huſſe, Luther, &c. or to the Swethen wars, or to the Engliſh Parliament, &c. is far from the works of the Angels which ſhall pour out the 7 laſt plagues.
THVS ſhall Babylon, &c. The Compariſon eſpecially holds in two things: firſt, a great milſtone in the ſea doth not one while ſink and another while ſwim; now is falling, then riſing again. Thus, that is, when any of the 7 Angels pour out their Vials, the worke ſhall ſo proſper in their hands, as it ſhall goe ſtill viſibly forward, and not be hindred or retarded, by any Adverſary-power whatſoever: It ſhall not be now (as hitherto it hath been) one while the enemie hath been ſinking, another while riſing and ſwimming; but where the Vials (whether Firſt, Second, Third, &c.) doe fall, the Beaſt and his party ſhall be alwaies falling & ſinking down to the bottome under them.
Secondly: As Babylon ſhall be always ſinking under the Vials; ſo where ſhe is once brought to the bottom, there ſhe ſhall remain and abide, without recovering her ſelf any more at all. But theſe things we have not*I deſire the Judicious reader ſeriouſly to conſider whether he conceives any thing yet done againſt the Kingdom of the Beaſt, which looks like a Vial. It is true Gods hand hath been againſt it many ways: But we are to diſtinguiſh between common Judgments, and Vials filled up with the wrath of God: ſee Iſa. 13.19. Jer. 50.40. the wrath is every Vial is no ordinary wrath, as I thinke. ſeen, as the effects of the Vials ſuppoſed to be poured out. For neither hath her ſinking been like a Milſtone; nor hath ſhe kept at the bottome, being down. But that I have intended at this time to be brief, otherwiſe I could eaſily ſhew, how Interpreters in their application of the effects of Each Vial, taking the ſubjects of the Vials to be either this or that Country, doe make very little of the matter, to what the Spirit of God declares ſhall be the effects of everie Viall upon the Antichriſtian Kingdome.
Reaſ. 10 Tenthly: If my judgement fails not, there ſeemes to follow an abſurditie, taking the effects of the Vials already poured out, to be as they are underſtood and applied. The abſurditie ſeemes thus: When all the Vials are poured out, verie little may be ſignified or done by them, but Tyranny and Idolatrie in perſons and things, over all nations, people and tongues, as before. To prove this, thus I reaſon. If after the pouring out of three Vials (yea, as ſome reckon, 4, 5, 6.) what tyranny and Idolatry was ſuppreſt and put down (as the effects of the Vials) did riſe and ſpread it ſelfe again in the ſame places; Then may the effects of the later Vials be ſo too: That is, what corruptions and abuſes are for a while ſuppreſt (as the effects of the Vials) the ſame, whether Tyranny or Idolatrie, may be eſtabliſhed againe among the people where formerlie they were put down. If ſo, then the concluſion will ſtand good, John de la March ſaith the ſixth Vial was poured out upon Euphrates about the year 1632 and ſo forward. The effect whereof (viz. the drying up of it, appeared firſt in Scotland, An. 1639. in the ſentence of Excommunication againſt the Hierarchy. Complaint of the falſe Prophets, pag. 19. By ſuch reckoning we ſhall have little don by the Vials.that after all the Vials are poured out, very little may be done or ſignified; but the cauſe and intereſt of Chriſt, and the condition of Gods people, whether Iews or Gentiles, no better then it was before.
If any ſhall object, that under the Vials not poured out (as the 4, 5, 6, 7,) the German Empire, the Kingdome of the Beaſt, the Turkiſh power, &c. will be broken; I anſwer, The Queſtion is not what ſhall be the effects of the later Vials; but being granted that 3 are poured out, and where they fell, what Tyranny and Idolatry ſoever was for a time put down, (as the effects of ſuch Vials) in the ſame countries (which were the ſubjects of the Vials) the former Tyranny & Idolatry were eſtabliſhed again: The Queſtion, I ſay, then is, why the effects of the later Vials may not prove & be as the effects of the former; That is, whatſoever Tyranny and Idolatry ſhall be ſuppreſt (as the effects of the laſt Vials) the ſame may be ſet up againe in the Nations, as it was before in the caſe of the former Vials; and ſo in Concluſion all may be poured out, & the times immediately after as corrupt as before.
Reaſ. 11 My 11 Reaſon why I thinke none of the Vials are yet poured out, is taken from Rev. 15.8. where it is ſaid, And the Temple was filled with ſmoke, from the glorie of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the Temple, till the ſeven plagues of the ſeven Angels were fulfilled. How this can be fairly applied to the perſons whom I have often mentioned, viz. Groſtead, Armachan, Wickliff, Luther, the King of Swethen, or our Late Parliament; I ſee no reaſon at all for it.
For 1. If there hath been no ſuch Temple yet, filled with ſmoke from the glory of God (as I beleeve there hath not) then conſequently none of the 7 Last plagues have been poured out.
But 2. Suppoſe ſuch a Temple 3 or 400 yeers paſt; Yet how will it appeare, that in all this time, notwithſtanding the multitudes which have ever ſince ſeparated from the falſe Church, not one man of them was able to enter into the Temple?
3. For the perſons who are thought to be the Angels already gone out of the Temple with Vials of wrath, give them their due and more too, yet I doubt, if things be duly weighed, whether groundedly it can be proved, I ſpeake as to any of them, that the Temple was*I am much unſatisfied that not any of the Vials are yet poured out, in regard I ſee ſo little proportion and ſutableneſs between the perſons who are ſaid to be the Angels; & how the Spirit of God deſcribes the perſons and worke. FILLED with ſmoke from the glory of God and from his power.
Laſtly, I am ſomething confirmed in my opinion, not onelyonly to obſerve, how unſuteably the matter of the Vials is applied to things already done; I ſay, the diſproportion between the one and the other: But what contrarieties and differences there are amongſt good men about them.aOf this opinion are good men. Some think Three are poured out,bSo Mede. others ſay Four;cThus holds Mayer. ſome Five,dSo thinks John dela March. others Six. Now truly my mind gives me, if ſuch things were paſt, being of ſo great concernment, Gods people would not be ſo divided and loſt therein.
Beſides, it is my opinion (and I ſhall ere long give reaſons for it) when the time comes, that theſe Vials ſhall begin to be poured out, the Lord will ſet it*I Queſtion whether Wickcliff, Huſſe, Luther, &c. or the King of Sweth, or our Parliament, either the one in preaching the Goſpel, or the other in going forth to war, had it put upon their hearts by the Spirit of God, that what they did was in order to the fulfilling of this Propheſie, that is, they knew they were called out of the Temple to poure out ſuch and ſuch of the laſt plagues upon the Antichriſtian Kingdome. But I doe not queſtion, when the ſet-time is come that the Vials indeed muſt be poured out, but ſuch as ſhall be the inſtruments and miniſters thereof ſhall fully know that they are the Angels appointed for that worke. home upon the hearts of the Saints, as their worke; and not onelyonly ſhall they be Spirited and fitted for it, but they ſhall know by ſome divine appearance that the ſet-time is come; now, as his choſen, & called, and faithfull, they muſt follow the Lamb with golden Vials in their hands. Rev. 15.7. & 16.1. & 18. 1. Iſa. 13.3. Pſa. 50.4, 5. Dan. 12.10. Rev. 17.1.
Howſoever I have thus far declared my ſelf, that none of the ſeven laſt plagues are poured out, yet I muſt confeſſe, conſidering how in this thing, I diſſent from what hath been, and ſtill is the common received opinion of moſt pious and pretious Saints; I deſire to be very humble and ſober in my thoughts: and in this regard, I profeſs in the preſence of God, & before the whole Iſrael of God, that I ſhall be moſt willing and thankfull (through the good hand of Chriſt, aſſiſting me) to receive better light, from the leaſt of the Flock, if I am miſtaken about the time. And becauſe the knowledge of the times, to wit, when the Vials are to take their beginning, is a thing of ſpecial concernment; for here if we miſtake, we build upon a ſandie foundation, and the whole Fabrick is mar'd by it: Beſides, the matter of the Vials is the main thing, which all waiting Saints at this time are diligently to enquire after, as their GENERATION-WORKE. For theſe and other like conſiderations, it is my humble requeſt, that whoſoever amongſt the Little remnant of the woman, is not ſatisfied with theſe reaſons, but thinks he can produce ſtronger Arguments (that ſome of the Vials are poured out,) then thoſe which I have brought, that in the ſpirit of meekneſſe ſo much may be made known to the followers of the Lamb.
And to the end the Anſwer may be the more full and ſatisfactory to the Saints everywhere, I will here adde a few Queries, the which being anſwered with the Reaſons, will give the more light to the point in controverſie.
Quest. 1 Firſt, If by the Angel pouring out the firſt Vial, either Waldo, Wickliff, Groſtead, Armachan, Luther, &c. be meant, who then is the one of the 4 Beaſts which gave unto the 7 Angels the 7 golden vials? Rev. 15.7. By the four Beaſts in the Revelation, all Learned and godly Expoſitors do underſtand the Miniſters & Preachers of the Goſpel. If ſo, how then can they who*If the place be well weighed, I think ſuch will ſee their miſtake who apply any of the Vials to the preaching of the Goſpel. It is one thing to ſtir up another to his work, and another thing to take the work out of his hand. deliver over the Vials to be poured out by others, be the doers thereof themſelves?
Quest. 2 Secondly: whereas the 7 laſt plagues are to be poured forth by 7 Angels, The Queſtion is, whether by each Angel a ſingle perſon be meant, or a number. If a number of perſons, then whether all godly, or ſome (ſuppoſe the greater number) ſhall be taken into the work, which are viſibly prophane and wicked, even ſuch as carry the Marke of the Beaſt. It ſeems by the Scripture that none ſhall be called to the work of the Vials, nor have a hand in the pouring of them out, but*Rev. 15.6. & 17.14. & 14 1. Iſa. 13.3. Pſa. 102.18. Jer. 50.45. Rev. 18.6. Saints by calling: If ſo, then how is the 2 or 3 Vial applyable to the Sweden or Engliſh wars?
Quest. 3 Thirdly, why ſhould the Song of Moſes & of the Lamb, Rev. 15.34.I doe not denie but the Lord hath done much for his Church and people in theſe later times; but it will not therefore follow that he hath given them ſuch victories & deliverances as to ſing the ſong of Moſes, &c. be carried up to the times before the riſing of the witneſſes; and the new ſong, Rev. 14.3. brought down many hundred yeers after? This ſeems to be, 1. Againſt the order of the propheſie. 2. The matter of the ſong, if rightly obſerved, is not ſuteable to any time in which the Beaſts reigned. Neither, laſtly, can it be ſhewed (in my opinion) that ever the Churches of the Saints, ſince the riſe of Antichriſt to this day, have had occaſion, through any deliverance or Victory, to ſong the Song of Moſes and of the Lamb.
Quest. 4 Fourthly, That ſome of theſe Vials ſhould be poured out in the preaching of the Goſpel, by Wickliff, Huſſe, Luther, &c. Others by Parliaments, Armies, Navies, &c. Though it be ſo taken, yet I do not ſee any Reaſon for it: for their opinion to me ſeems better grounded (I mean as to order) who apply all the ſeuen laſt Plagues either to the(a)I would have this thing wel conſider'd why we ſhould underſtand in preaching of the goſpel Vials & plagues to be poured out. preaching of the Goſpel onelyonly, or onelyonly to temporal Judgments executed by Civil Powers: But to underſtand one Viall poured out in a Spiritual way, another in a Civil way, here I deſire proof, as being unſatisfied.
Quest. 5 Fifthly, That the effect of the firſt Viall, whether by Groſtead, Armachan, Wickliff, Luther, &c. poured out, ſhould no further extend, then to the diſcovering of ſome particulars of the groſſer ſort of Idolatry, as Purgatory, Maſs, Penance, Corporal Preſence, Praying to Saints, Pilgrimages, Indulgences, &c. with a Reformation of ſome people from the practice of ſuch Corruptions; Many groſs Lyes and Errors of the Beaſt, neither diſcovered nor reproved at the ſame time by the perſons before named: This I queſtion, becauſe when any Viall is poured out, whereſoever it falls, it ſhall(b)That any of the vials ſhould be like a net, which holds ſome of the greater fiſh, & lets the leſſer goe through the holes, I am not of that opinion, Iſa. 13.9, 16 Pſ. 137.9 neither do I think that any reformation which hath been formerly in Church or State is to be brought under any of the Vials. break the Kingdome of Antichriſt fully and wholly; I ſay, not ſome part of it, but extirpate all his Idolatries and Blaſphemies root and branch.
The like may be ſaid concerning applying other Vialls, whether to the Wars of Germany, or ſince here in England. The truth is, ſo much Idolatry and Superſtition is unſhaken even to this day, where the Vials are ſaid to fall (as the ſubjects of them) as I have ground to think, that nothing yet hath been done ſutable to the nature and effect of any Viall.
Quest. 6 Sixthly, whereas it is ſaid Rev. 15.8. And the Temple was filled with ſmoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the Temple till the ſeven plagues of the ſeven Angels were fulfilled. Firſt, If by ſmoke we underſtand the wrath of God inflicted upon the Antichriſtians for their wicked Idolatry, as ſome do; The queſtion then is, How it can be ſaid, that ſince the Vials began to be poured out, their darkneſs and blindeneſs hath been more and greater then before.
But ſecondly, If by the Temple filled with ſmoke from the glory of God, &c. the Spirit alludes to the hiſtory of the Tabernacle, which in the dedication thereof, was wholly filled with a Cloud of the glory of the Lord, ſo as Moſes could not enter into it, Exo. 40.33, 34. And to the hiſtory of the Temple, which likewiſe at the dedication, was filled with the Cloud of the glory of God, ſo as the Prieſts could not ſtand to miniſter, ſo long as the glory of Jehovah filled the houſe: I ſay, if the place be thus applied (as moſt do) and that filling to be a teſtimony and ſigne of Gods glorious preſence and approbation: Then here is ſignified a pouring out of the Spirit upon the Angels, before they go forth, as tarrying in the Temple (as the Diſciples did at Jeruſalem) untill they ſhould be endued with power from on high, Luke 24.59. Indeed this great promiſe of the Father, concerning the ſending of the Comforter to teach us all things, and to bring all things to our remembrance, Joh. 14.26. is by Saints now prayed for, and waited for even day and night; but as yet that Spirit is not(c)It is my opinion that no Vial ſhall be poured out until the ſaints have the ſpirit poured out upon them, which was promiſed to be given in the laſt days: now if we have not that ſpirit yet, I may well conclude Groſtead; Armachan, Wickliff, Luther, &c. had it not in their dayes. given forth from the glory of God, and from his power: Neither probably ſhall we receive it, until the woman be out of the wilderneſs. Who is this that cometh out of the Wilderneſs, like pillars of ſmoke perfumed with myrrhe and frankincenſe, with all powders of the Merchant? Behold his bed, which is Solomons: threeſcore valiant men are about it, of the valiant of Iſrael, &c. Go forth, O ye daughters of Zion, and behold King Solomon with the Crown wherewith his mother crowned him in the day of his eſpouſals, and in the day of the gladneſs of his heart, Song 3.6, 7, 11.
Quest. 7 Seventhly, Whereas upon the opening of the ſeventh Seal, the firſt Angel of the ſeven, which had the ſeven Trumpets, ſounded, Rev. 8.1, 7. The queſtion is, Whether (obſerving order) the firſt Viall of the ſeventh is to be poured out, till after the ſounding of the firſt Trumpet? If ſo, then we are not to begin the Vials until after the riſing of the Witneſſes; as is manifeſt Rev. 11.12, 15. Such as think ſome Vials are poured out, do likewiſe hold that the(d)Brightman holds that the ſeventh trumpet ſounded in the year 1558. ſeventh Trumpet hath already ſounded. But to grant that ſome Vials are paſt, and the ſeventh Trumpet not yet ſounded; here ought to be firſt good conſideration, if we will not be children in underſtanding. That the ſeventh Trumpet hath not yet ſounded, I think it muſt be granted by all, who hold the Witneſſes not riſen. But that any of the Vials are to be poured out, till after the ſounding of the ſeventh Trumpet, truly in my opinion, whoſoever ſhall humbly and ſoberly obſerve the Propheſie, ſhall finde little ground to think otherwiſe. In the dayes of the voyce of the ſeventh Angel, when he ſhall begin to ſound, the myſtery of God ſhould be finiſhed, as he hath declared to his ſervants the Prophets, Rev. 13.7. Now unleſs by finiſhing the myſtery, here is meant the pouring out the ſeven laſt Plagues, I know not what is to be underſtood. It is ſaid before, That there ſhould be time no longer, ver. 6. that is, upon the ſounding of the laſt Trumpet, the ſeven Angels which had the ſeven laſt Plagues, ſhould (obeying the heavenly voyce) go their wayes and pour out the Vials of the wrath of God upon the earth: and ſo no more time, viz. for the Beaſt, and the falſe Prophet, or any other wicked ones to oppreſs the Lords people, whether Jews or Gentiles.
Queſt. 8 Eighthly, I deſire to know, Whether the ſeven laſt Plagues do not contemporize with the third Woe, Rev. 8.13. If ſo, then no Vial is yet poured out: For the third Woe is not to be, until after the riſing of the Witneſſes, Rev. 11.11, 14. Again it is ſaid, Behold the third Woe cometh quickly; which is not meant (as I conceive) of ſhortneſs of time betwixt this and the former Woe, but of a ſpeedy and quick diſpatch, as to the great work of God at this time. As if he ſhould ſay, When this Woe comes upon the world (which I take to be no other then the pouring out of all the Vials) it ſhall be (though ſharp, yet ſhort) not for ſpace of time, any way in compariſon either to the firſt or ſecond Woe.
And truly, as I have ſaid before, howſoever ſome good men do give many hundred years to the time of the Vials, yet for my part, I think otherwiſe; to wit, that after there is a beginning, they ſhall be all poured out, and the work finiſhed in leſs then fifty years. Behold the third Woe cometh quickly.
Reader, Thou mayeſt well perceive in framing theſe Queſtions, that I expect no Anſwer from an Adverſary, but (if any anſwer be made) from a friend or brother, one that ſeeks with the like ſpirit after the underſtanding of the times, to know what Iſrael ought to do. And ſhould theſe Reaſons upon examination, be found not ſufficient to prove the matter for which they are brought; yet I ſhall have comfort in what I have done, conſidering what PUBLICK ADVANTAGE may follow upon this occaſion, as to have this Great Point the more diligently ſearcht into. I may well call it a GREAT POINT, for I know nothing more neceſſary for Saints, who deſire to follow, Chriſt fully, in the preſent work of their Generation, then to have clear light and knowledge concerning the Vials; that is, Whether any be paſt (as is the common received opinion) or none of them yet poured out, according to that ſmall portion which I have in the knowledge of holy things.
That which I ſee not, teach thou me: If I have done iniquity, I will not offend any more, Job 34.32.
FINIS.
An Advertiſement to the Reader.
AFter I had ſent the former Reaſons to the Preſs, there came this Anſwer to my hands. It is true, I had a long time expected it, but hearing nothing from my Friend about it, I thought good to publiſh that little by it ſelf, as intending (if I ſhould ſee a providence in it) to ſet forth ſome thing larger upon the Vials. Now to have the Reaſons printed, and to keep the Anſwer by me in ſecret (though I can truly ſay, I knew nothing of the Anſwer, till after the Reaſons were at the Preſs; yet) to conceal it, it might be judg'd not lovely, and of good report: And therefore I have publiſhed the Anſwer (with a ſhort Reply) as it came to my hands: Thus.
I Shall bring out of my poor treaſure (which I have received) in anſwer to your precious lines, Reaſons and Quaeres, which were very ſeaſonable and acceptable to me, and not at all offenſive, troubleſome or unprofitable to me; although I cannot, as yet, concurre with your Opinion therein.