An Answer to Two Treatises of John Can, Chapter 5
CHAP. V.
SECT. I.
IT may be ſome will expect that I ſhould write ſomething of their Lecturers; Can. Neceſ. of Separat. pag. 49, 50.and the rather becauſe they in the judgement of many, are thought to be the beſt Miniſters. Of their life and doctrine I ſay nothing. But as for their Miniſtery, ſurely it is new and ſtrange. For the Originall of their name, manner of entrance, and Adminiſtration, is unknowne wholly to the Scriptures, and I thinke never before heard of, till in theſe latter broken and confuſed times. Therefore it is no marvell, when the Queſtion hath beene propounded to ſome of them, as it was by the Phariſees to John, Who art thou? That they have not been able for their life to anſwer to anſwer the point. Neither could agree among themſelves what kinde of Miniſtery it is that they have taken up. And being hard preſſed for reſolution, they have ingenuouſly confeſſed, that unleſſe they be Evangeliſts, they could not ſee how their Miniſtery doth accord with any Miniſtery mentioned in the New Teſtament. This I write upon my owne certain knowledge, the perſons I thinke are yet living, whoſe names for ſome reaſon I forbeare to expreſſe. Howbeit, I can and will doe it if I ſee there be a juſt and neceſſary occaſion.
I doe not thinke it ſtrange that they ſhould thus ſpeake: for indeed I know not what they can ſay better in defence of their ſtanding. Paſtours, I am ſure, they will not ſay they are: For,
Firſt, They doe not take any particular charge of a flocke upon them.
Secondly, They performe not the office thereof, for they agree with the people onelyonly to preach, and not to adminiſter either the ſeales or cenſures to them.
Thirdly, Their comming unto the people is in a ſtrange ſort: for they make a covenant each with other for ſome certaine yeares, and when that time is out, both parties are free, and ſo may leave one the other, and doe many times: but a true Paſtour may not doe ſo: For if he ſhould he were worſe than an hireling which leaves not the ſheepe till he ſee the Wolfe comming. But many of theſe when they ſee a richer Lectureſhip comming towards them.
Fourthly, He that is a Parſon or Vicar, is taken generally for the Miniſter of the place. And truely, howſoever their calling be falſe and Anttchristian (as the Nonconformiſts ſay) yet in many reſpects they doe better reſemble a true Minister than any Lecturer whatſoever. Therefore not without juſt cauſe, Neceſ. of Diſcipl. pag. 74.doe the Reformists utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers: And affirme, that they are neither Paſtours nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of.
ANSVVER.
THis point concerning Lecturers, I have purpoſely deferred unto this place, becauſe it is diſtinct from the former in your apprehenſion, and in this you doe not pretend the Nonconformiſts principles, as you did in the former. The exceptions alſo which you take againſt them, are not in reſpect of gifts, learning, or diligence, nor that they are brought into the Church by Antichriſt, but chiefly in reſpect of the office and Miniſtery it ſelfe. That which you object concerning the name, that it is new (as you doe before againſt Parſons, Vicars, and Curates, that they are Popiſh) is too ſlight to be inſiſted upon. For theſe and divers other names or titles given to the Preachers of the Word, doe not note different Miniſteries for ſubſtance and kinde, but different accidents whereby the Miniſters are diſtinguiſhed, and ſometimes the employment whereabout they are principally exerciſed. But the Miniſtery which is exerciſed under thoſe names, is for ſubſtance one and the ſame, which Chriſt hath appointed and ſet his Church. If any man hath not been able to anſwer this Queſtion when it hath been propounded, what kinde of Miniſtery the Lecturers have taken up, it was from his weakneſſe, not from the difficultie of the matter. And this is no marvaile, ſeeing many Queſtions ſeeme Riddles to you, which very eaſily untie themſelves, or be knit in conceit onelyonly. As to the Papiſts many Queſtions touching the certaintie of our Religion, the calling of our Miniſters, the continuance of the faith, ſeeming indiſſoluble, which a true hearted Chriſtian can quickly diſſolve. But you write upon certaine knowledge, that ſome have ingenuouſly confeſſed, that unleſſe they be Evangeliſts, they could not ſee how their Miniſtery doth accord with any Miniſtery mentioned in the New Teſtament.
I am not ſo diffident as to diſtruſt every word that is ſpoken, nor muſt I be ſo ſimple as to beleeve every thing. In the quoting of mens words in writing, and giving the ſenſe of them, I finde you trip ſo often ignorantly or upon ſet purpoſe; and ſo many times to quote that as making for you, which is as direct againſt you as can be ſpoken, that without breach of charitie, I may ſuſpect ſome ſuch thing in this particular; either that you miſtooke their meaning, or miſrelate their words, or ſet downe your owne conſequence for their poſition, or the like. Inſtances of your miſtaking enough hath beene formerly mentioned, in this very place there be two of no ſmall note, nor hard to be diſproved. Firſt you ſay, The Nonconformists condemne the calling of Parſons and Vicars (their office you meane) as falſe and Antichriſtian. But their practice and profeſſion both, doth evidence the contrary to the whole world, as hath beene ſhewed. And if you will miſtake their writings ſo palpably and againe and againe affirme them from their writings, what is not there to be found, but is direct contrary to their judgement, writing and practice, how can we beleeve that you truely report their words. Secondly, you ſay; The Reformiſts doe utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers. Lecturers you underſtand by extraordinary Preachers; but extraordinary they are not, either in reſpect of their calling, or the worke wherein they are imployed. And the Nonconformiſts are ſo farre from condemning that office, that it is well knowne many, if not the greateſt part of them, had none other calling, or office in the Church. And I preſume every reaſonable man, will conceive it an unlikely thing, that ſo many godly and learned men, ſuffering many and great troubles againſt other abuſes, ſhould chooſe to live in ſuch a calling, againſt the light of their conſcience. Can. Neceſ of … parat. pag. … & 210. 2…3. If Dr. And … not boaſted of … mans booke, &c. Id. pag. 224 This is the booke which Mr. Paget upbraids us with. Arr. againſt Separat. pag. 38.And you know ſome have maintained, (whoſe judgement therein and workes are approved by others of the ſame ranke,) That the Miniſtery of godly Preachers (and ſo of Lecturers) in the Church of England, in all ſubſtantiall and eſſentiall parts, is that very Miniſtery which Chriſt hath inſtituted and ordained in the New Teſtament, and which he hath bleſſed for the gathering and building forward of his Church in faith and holineſſe.
It is not then the common judgement of the Reformiſts, nor the private opinion of any particular man of that minde, that I have ſeene or heard of, that the office or calling of a Lecturer is utterly to be condemned. Who the Author is, or what the worke which you quote, entituled, The Neceſſitie of Diſcipline, I know not, nor what he ſaith.
Perhaps you alledge him, as you have done others wrongfully; It may be he ſpeakes of ſome circumſtances, not of the ſubſtance of the calling. If he goe any further, it is his private conceit, and muſt not be imputed to the Reformiſts, as you ſtile them.
We neede not here diſpute of the difference, betwixt the Paſtour and the Teacher, nor to enquire whether of theſe they are to be eſteemed, untill the difference betwixt them be exactly defined, and ſubſtantially proved: If for ſubſtance of Miniſtery they doe the worke of the Lord Jeſus, and by his approbation, this ſufficeth.
Firſt then here it is to be noted, that the Officers of the Church are not ſo diſtinguiſhed by heir ſpeciall limits and bounds, but the ſuperiour may doe the office of the reſt, if neceſſitie require. As if the ſocietie be ſmall, meet Officers cannot be had, or be wanting for a time, or taken away by death, The Paſtour may ſupply the roome of the Teacher, Elder, or Deacon, that is, he may teach, watch over the manners of the people, and take ſpeciall care of the poore, as the Apoſtles did for a time.
Secondly, If the Paſtour be aged, weake, ſickly, unable to beare the burden of his charge alone, he may take unto him, with conſent of the ſocietie and colledge Eccleſiaſticall, Aſſiſters or Helpers; Videl. in Ignat: ad Mariam. exercit. 3.Ʋt tam praeſentes in urbe ſublevarentur, quam ut abſentibus ipſis, Eccleſiae paſtoribus deſtituta non eſſet, delegerunt (ſcil. Apoſtoli) ſibi coadjutores: Quod nominatim ex Epiphanio hereſ. Sozom. hiſt. lib. 2. cap. 19. Euſeb. lib. 6. ca. 10. Gr.27. apparet. Tales fuerunt hi tres, Clemens, Linus, Cletus, Aut, ut noſter Author ait, Anacletus. So Maximus helped Macarius untill his death; and Auguſtine Valerius. And if the Paſtour be careleſſe or negligent, it is lawfull for the people to provide for themſelves, by the beſt meanes that they can, or God is pleaſed to afford unto them, that they might be taught and inſtructed in the wayes of holineſſe.
Thirdly, Paſtours are to feede the flocke committed unto their care, yet ſo as many Paſtours may be ſet over one flock, which they muſt feede in common. And to this purpoſe ſome write, A diſpute, par. 3. cap. 8. pag. 170.that the Apoſtolique and Primitive times, knew neither Pariſhionall nor Dioceſan Churches, but Chriſtians lived then in Cities onelyonly, not in Villages becauſe of the perſecution. Act. 20.27, 28. Phil. 1.1. 1 Theſ. 5.12. Act. 13.2. & 15.2. Col. 4.11. Iames 5.14. Epiphan. haereſ. 27. Ignat. ad Tralleus. Sozom. li. 4. ca. 14. Euſeb. hiſt. lib. 6. cap. 10, 11. Gr. ca. 9. lat. Gratian. Decret. part 2. cap 7. qu. 1. can. 12.And it is to be remembred, that in Rome, Corinth, Epheſus, Philippi, Coloſſe, Theſſalonica, and ſuch other Cities, inhabited by Chriſtians, there were more Paſtours than one, which did in common governe all the Churches within that Citie, and there was not any one Paſtour, who by himſelfe, governed a certaine part of the Citie peculiarly aſſigned to his charge. Thus alſo the Ancients write, that Peter and Paul, were the firſt Biſhops and Apoſtles at Rome. Paul had Linus and Timothy; Peter, Clemens and Anacletus. Liberius and Felix, both governed the Apoſtolicall Seat: Valerius and Augustine, Narciſſus and Alexander in the Church of Hippo. It is apparent, the Apoſtles ordained many Overſeers in one ſocietie, and it is not repugnant either to Scripture or reaſon, to thinke there might be many Paſtours of one flocke; And the flocke might be one under the joynt care of many Shepheards, Bilſon. perpet. Gover. ca. 10. pa. 155. Every church with them had many Prophets, Paſtours and Teachers, the number and neede of the people, and time ſo requiring. T. C. repl. l. pa. 34.though they did not ordinarily meete together in one place. For to aſſemble together in one place, is meerely accidentall to the unitie of a ſocietie: Certaine it is, in times of perſecution they cannot ſo meete; and it is moſt probable, in the Apoſtles times, many Churches were too populous in that manner to aſſemble together. Thoſe that know the ſtate of France in time of perſecution, doe well underſtand that every Church almoſt was gathered of Townes, whereof ſome were ſix miles, ſome ſeven, ſome more from the place of meeting, and keeping their Congregations. And therefore could not meete ſo often, nor know one another ſo well, as we by the grace of God may doe.
Fourthly, No one Paſtour or Teacher hath the power of the cenſures belonging unto him, and whether the power of diſpenſing the Seales belong to every Miniſter of the Goſpell, I leave it to your conſideration, (for I know not what you will reſolve) but the actuall diſpenſation of the Seales may be forborne by ſome, to whom the right of diſpencing doth appertaine, ſpecially when there be others at hand to doe that office. The Apoſtles had power to baptize, 1 Cor. 1.14, 15, 16. Can. Neceſ. of Separat. pag. 236.but we may well thinke, they did not ordinarily baptize themſelves. It is poſſible (you ſay) a man may be a true Eccleſiaſticall Officer, and yet never doe the ſervices thereof.
Fifthly, The Miniſter of the Goſpell is not made abſolutely a Miniſter by the choice or election of this or that people, but onelyonly their Miniſter for the time of his abode and continuance with them. Lay theſe things together, and then your exceptions againſt the office of Lecturers will vaniſh. For if they have not the chiefe charge or cure of ſoules, they be not ſole Paſtours or Teachers of the flocke; but joyned in care or charge with others as Helpers or Aſſiſtants, or choſen by the people to ſupply the want of ſuch as ſhould, but doe not feed the flocke. If they diſpence not the Seales, neither is that neceſſary in reſpect of their ſtanding: for right and power from Chriſt they have to diſpence them, but in the execution of that power they may be hindred, or forbeare it for a time. If they leave their place being lawfully called to another flocke, it may be with conſent of the ſocietie and of the Church, and what then doth make it unlawfull? or if the charge ſhould be unlawfull, it doth not make the Miniſtery ſtrange or new, which is the thing in queſtion.
SECT. II.
THat Miniſtery which is inſtituted and ſet up beſides thoſe which God hath appointed in his Word, Neceſ. of Separat. pag. 51, 52.is unlawfull and falſe. But the Miniſtery of Lecturers in England is instituted and ſet beſide theſe, which God hath appointed in his Word. Therefore that Miniſtery is unlawfull and falſe. The propoſition is plaine and undeniable, and we have their owne words to confirme it. For thus they ſay, All the Ministery is by the Word of God, and not left to the will of man to deviſe at their pleaſure, as appeareth by that which is noted of John, where the Phariſees comming to him, after that he had denied to be either Chriſt, or Elias, or another Prophet, conclude if he be neither Chriſt nor Elias, nor of the Prophets, why baptizeſt thou? Which had been no good argument, if John might have been of other function, than of thoſe which were ordinary in the Church, T. C. repl, 1. pa. 62, 63.and inſtituted of God, &c. Againe to deviſe another Miniſtery, than that which God hath appointed, is condemned by the ſecond Commandement.
The Aſſumption is thus proved. Firſt if their Lecturers have taken ordination from the Biſhops, and exerciſe by that power onelyonly, then is their office falſe, by the reaſons before laid downe. Secondly, If it be objected, that they never received the Prelates orders, or have repented thereof, I anſwer, This proves not that they are therefore true Ministers. For as Jehu, though he did well to ſuppreſſe Ahabs idolatrie, yet in that he followed the wayes of Jeroboam, he himſelfe continued ſtill a groſſe Idolater: Even ſo; howſoever ſome may privately report, that they ſtand Miniſters by no relation to the Biſhops, yet are they notwithſtanding unlawfull Ministers, ſeeing they were never elected, choſen, ordained according to Gods Word. If any reply, that they have their calling of the people: I anſwer, the thing is ſurely otherwiſe, as ſhall be manifeſted preſently. But if this were granted, yet I deny that any Church under heaven, hath power from Chriſt to ordaine ſuch a kinde of Miniſtery, and therefore if any people ſhould doe it, ſeeing it is againſt the Scripture, it muſt needs follow, that it is an unlawfull Miniſtery, and ſo conſequently not to be communicated with.
ANSVVER.
YOu are ſtrangely taken with this note; for you have brought nothing but a bare repetition, of what you have ſaid over and over. If you ſpeake of the ſubſtantiall and eſſentiall parts of the Miniſtery, it is freely granted, that the true Miniſtery is by the word of God, and heavenly. But if you extend it to every circumſtantiall order, whereby in this or that Societie, the Miniſter is to execute the function he hath received of God, it is not approved. But of this you need not to have made ſo many words. To your aſſumption, anſwer hath been returned already.
Firſt, That the Miniſters of the Goſpell receive their office and authoritie, neither from the Biſhop, Patron, people, or Colledge Eccleſiaſticall, but from Chriſt immediately, whoſe ſervants they are, in whoſe name they miniſter, whoſe flocke they attend, and who hath aſſigned them their worke. And if you receive your Miniſtery from the people, as their ſervant, from whom you derive your office and authoritie, and from whom you receive your Commiſſion; your Miniſtery in that reſpect is no leſſe falſe and antichriſtian, than theirs that derive it from the Biſhops.
Secondly, If Lecturers have received ordination from the Biſhops, and be called and choſen by the people, their calling is juſt and lawfull, according to the rules of Scripture, and their Miniſtery heavenly and from above, if they preach the intire faith, and feed the flocke of God. For they preach the pure doctrine of ſalvation, not by authoritie from men, but by commiſſion from the chiefe Shepheard and Biſhop of our ſoules: their calling may be juſtified by the Word and warrant of truth, which ſhall ſtand for ever; the more hainous and fearefull is your ſinne, in matching the Miniſtery of ſuch men, to the idolatry of Jehu.
Thirdly, You are bold to affirme, That no Church under Heaven, hath power from Chriſt to ordaine ſuch a kinde of Miniſtery, &c. And it is true, the Church hath no power to ordaine any Miniſtery; for Chriſt is the Author and inſtitutour of the Miniſtery for his Church. But your meaning is, That this kinde of Miniſtery is againſt the Scripture not ordained, and then if we call for your proofe, we have nothing here, but I deny it. Can. Neceſ. of Separat. pag. 217.You take up Mr Br. (how well it becomes you, let the Reader judge) as a bold Sophiſter, becauſe he makes flat deniall of expreſſed truthes. As thus, I ſay it is falſe, I deny it, &c. As if the weight of an argument were ſufficiently removed by empty denials. But when you ſhould make proofe of what you affirme, it ſufficeth you to ſay I deny, or this proves it not: or I have proved from their writings; when you have falfified them onelyonly. And if an empty deniall be not ſufficient anſwer to an empty affirmation, it is very ſtrange. Bilſon Chriſt. ſubject. par. 1. p. 41.I may juſtly ſay to you, as Dr Bilſon to the Papiſt whom he anſwered; If great vaunts were ſound proofes, the victory were yours; you have words and cracks at will, they coſt you nothing.
SECT. III.
THat it is ſo I prove it thus; Neceſ. of Separat. pag. 53.That Miniſtery is unlawfull, which none may lawfully give. But none may lawfully beſtow the Miniſtery of a Lecturer. Therefore that Miniſtery is unlawlawfull. The Aſſumption for ſhame cannot be denied, if the nature of it be conſidered. For as we but even now ſaid, their Lecturers take no charge of a flocke upon them, they make covenant we…h the people, but for a certaine time; the peculiar worke of a Miniſter is not by the people laid upon them, weither expected of them. If any object, that they preach the Word. To this Dr Ames gives an anſwer fully, that the preaching of the Goſpell is not a worke peculiar to a Miniſter: for ſuch as are private men, and out of office, may and ought to preach the Word, as occaſion is offered, and not onelyonly privately, but, ſaith he, in the publique Congregation, &c.
ANSVVER.
VVE have here the ſame thing over againe, and when all is ſaid, it is but this, I deny it, or I ſay it. The aſſumption cannot for ſhame be denied. The propoſition rightly underſtood is true and ſound, but it may carry divers conſtructions. As firſt, the meaning may be, That Miniſtery is for ſubſtance unlawfull, which none may lawfully give to ſuch or ſuch perſons, ſcil. to ſuch as be unfit or prophane. And in this ſenſe, the propoſition is not ſound. For the Miniſtery is unlawfully committed to an ungodly man, an hypocrite, but the Miniſtery it ſelfe is heavenly, and from above. Or the ſenſe may be, That Miniſtery is unlawfull which men may not lawfully give virtually or formally: And then it is weake; For Paſtours and Teachers are the gifts of Chriſt unto his Church, from whom they receive their office, and not from men, Or it may beare this ſenſe. That Miniſtery is unlawfull, which none may lawfully give in ſuch forme, and manner, as it is executed? And then it is lyable to exception. For of right the power of adminiſtration of the Seales and Cenſures of the Church, belong to the Paſtours, Teachers, and Governours of the Church; when in the execution of this office, they may be hindred. It is lawfull to be an aſſiſtant or helper to a Paſtour for a time, when it is not lawfull to give the office of Miniſtery to a man for a time onelyonly, and then to expire. To the aſſumption; The Lecturers of whom we ſpeak, have derived their office from the Lord Jeſus Chriſt, by the Miniſtery of his Church, as inſtruments, their entrance into it lawfull, the ſervice and worke it ſelfe holy, the manner of performing it warrantable, and the authoritie they have received the ſame which Chriſt hath communicated to the Miniſters of the Goſpell. To publiſh the truth by way of inſtruction or exhortation, is not peculiar to the Miniſters of the Goſpell, but by authoritie, … …culiar to the Miniſter. For the Scripture joyneth together the preaching of the Word, and diſpenſation of the Seales, as both belonging to the Officers, Math. 28.19. 1 Cor. 1.who have received commiſſion from Jeſus Chriſt. And if private perſons may preach the Word in this ſenſe, we ſee no reaſon why they may not adminiſter the Sacraments likewiſe, and ſo the Governours of the Church ſhall have power to doe nothing, which every private member of the ſocietie may not doe as well as they. But Lecturers preach the Goſpell by authoritie, and as men ſet in office by the Lord of the harveſt. And this may ſuffice to ſhew the vanitie of ſuch exceptions as are taken againſt our Church, Miniſtery, and worſhip, to prove it to be no true Church, worſhip, and Miniſtery; and how untruly and unjuſtly the Nonconformiſts are charged to lay the grounds of that … and affected Separation, which ſome have run into. To examine what argument is returned to Dr Ames, Mr Daw: Mr Br: is needleſſe; for nothing of weight is ſaid againſt them, but the ſame things vainly repeated, with inſolent ſcoffes and reproaches, as if by evill ſpeaking you hoped to get the victory. It is to be obſerved generally you ſay, Can. Neceſ. of Separat. pag. 211.that thoſe which ſtand for bad cauſes doe after this ſort ſtill reproach the Adverſaries. Thus doe the Papiſts the Proteſtants, ſo the Proteſtants the Puritanes, and ſo they us, as here and in other writings uſually. Now I would entreat you to review your two books, and ſpeake in good earneſt, whether in ſcoffing, reproaching, falſifications, you doe not ordinarily exceed all men that ever you met withall; Conſider ſeriouſly, and then let conſcience be Judge, whether it be the note of a good or evill cauſe, &c.
FINIS.