Quakerism the Path-Way to Paganism, Chapter 7

Quakerism the Path-Way to Paganism · Chapter 7

p. 133CHAP. VII. Of Reprobation.

1. WE have heard this Mans Opinion concerning the State and condition of fallen Man: Now his Fift and Sixt Thesis come under consideratio…, wherein he giveth us an Account of the way and meanes, how man is delivered from this miserable and depraved Condition: But howbeit his Theses were sufficiently large: Yet he toucheth moe things in his Vindication or Apology, than he gave any hint of there: but this is no material ground of challenge, for the more full he be, in explaining his minde, and the moe the particulars be, which he speaketh to, we come to know his minde the better. Though he made no mention of Reprobation, in his Thesis; yet he giveth us, in his Apology, Pag. 64. &c. a large discourse thereof; and beginneth his Explication of these two Theses, with this matter; And though he spareth no paines or paper, in venting his displeasure against that, which he supposeth to be the doctrine of the Reformed Churches, concerning Reprobation; yet I cannot finde, that he giveth us any account of his owne positive Judgment, of this matter; be like he thought it his Wisdom to forbear that, lest he should entangle himself into inextricable difficulties; and howbeit his Admirers may commend him for this; yet I think his dealing the less ingenuous and upright.

2. It is observed, that since the truth of God, in the matter, of Predestination, p. 134began first to be questioned by Pelagius, and his Followers, in the dayes of Augustine, there hath hardly been any Seck or Heresie, wherewith the Church of Christ hath been infested, that hath not stumbled upon this stumbling stone, and encouraged themselves thereby, to continue fixed in their Errours; and not only to blaspheme, in their pride and audacity, the Truth of God; when it had favoured more of Christian sobriety to have been silent; and when they could not, with their corrupt and blinded Understandings, satisfyingly comprehend this truth, to have stooped unto God's Revelation of the mystery, rather than to have condemned it, and that in such a petulant and intolerable manner, as if God and his mysteries must stand at the bar of mans Judgment, and either conforme to the Apprehensions and Conceptions of M…ns corrupted, blinded & byassed Reason, or be rejected as reprobat matter, not to be tolerated in Church, or Common wealth: so that this corrupted and blinde judge must umpire, without the remedie of an appellation, most peremptorily and absolutely, in the sublime acts of the Great & Absolute Soveraigne, Jehovah. And therefore, it should seem less strange to us, that these Quakers, whose chief Excellency, or rather most desperat Madness and Wickedness, lyeth in this, that they rake together all the filthiest brats of other Hereticks, and therewith patch up a compleet Cento, for their Religion; and whose chiefe and only rule, for faith and practice, is the dim Light of Nature, a light within every man; which, as to the great mysteries of God, revealed in the Gospel, is pure hellish darkness, have, following the Light of their corrupt guide, not only Rejected, but also blasphemously Inveighed against the Truth of God, in this particular: For vaine man would be wise, though man be born like a wild asses colt.

3. It is likewise observable, that the proud rebellious adversaries of the Grace and Soveraignity of God, that they may, in their popular discourses and scriblings, make the truth, concerning the Absolute and Free Grace of God, more odious and hatefull to such, as usually measure the Incomprehensible God and all his wayes, by their own carnal Imaginations, and not by the sure Revelations of his will in his Word: It is, I say, usual with such, to pitch upon this point of Reprobation, knowing that carnal self lovers are so blinded with prejudice at any truth, that crosseth their humors; and at this especially, which, at first look, seemeth so repugnant unto the fixed delusory apprehensions of God, which they satisfy themselves with all: And though the Judicious know, and they themselves cannot be igno…ant, that what is spoken against Reprobation, reflecteth upon Election, these being as twines, which must die and live together: for take away Reprobation and Election is forthwith destroyed, and grant once Election, and Reprobation is thereby established without further disput, by such as know what they say, and whereof they affirme; yet such is the Unmanly, let be Unchristian, yea and Unscholastick Disingenuity of these, more enraged than rationally acted, Adversaries, that they passe over the matter of Election, as finding it possibly too hote for their fingers, and exaggerat the matter of Reprobation, with all the strength of p. 135their Invention, and keenness of their Rhetorick; whereby, though they contribute to the fixing of themselves in an Errour (it may be, contrare to the very suggestions of their more Impartial, and a little more Enlightned Consciences) and to the raising of scruples and prejudices, in the mindes of the simple; yet they but render themselves more ridiculous unto the more understanding and exercised persons, in these debates. And this is the whole of the present work and designe of this Quaker; for not one word hath he of Election, less or more; but runeth out in such a rage, against Reprobation, that he runeth himself blinde; so that he cannot see the most palpable and obvious Contradictions and Inconsistencies, which himself uttereth; and no man, of common sense. would ever speak; and so doth his irrational rage drive him, that to all intelligent beholders, he proclameth his own brutish Ignorance: Take one instance which will demonstrate both: Towards the very beginning of his discourse Pag. 64. & 65. he presenteth us, as speaking thus. That God did predestinate to everlasting damnation the most part of men, without any respect had to their sin, only to demonstrate the glory of his justice. Now, let all men of common sense judge, (to speak nothing of the learned, who cannot but look with indignation upon this ridiculously and perversely false Representation of our meaning) if ever man in his wits did, or any, who understood what they said, could say, That God did predestinate any man to damnation, for the glory of his justice, without any consideration had of the mans sin? who seeth not what a palpable contradiction is here? can God have the glory of Iustice, any other way, than in punishing of sin? And can God intend to gloryfy his Iustice, and not intend to punish sin? and can he Intend to punish sin, or men for sin, and not consider their sin?

4. This Man inveigheth much against absolute Reprobation, as he calleth it, but what sort of Reprobation he maintaineth, he never once acquanteth us; why, and upon what designe, himself best knoweth. Nor doth he speak any thing of Election, that we might thereby understand his meaning better, concerning Reprobation. It is true Pag. 59. (as we took notice in the proceeding chapter) he gave us a little taste of his humore, in giving a wipe, without any true ground or real occasion, at absolute Election: and so we see, that he is equally enraged against Absolute Election, and Absolute Reprobation: But what his owne true Opinion is, he leaveth us to conjecture. Some might think, that he were of one opinion, as to this, with Pelagians, Iesuites and Arminians, who plead for Conditional decrees of Election, and Reprobation, and for satisfaction to their owne searching minde, poreing into this matter. The Iesuites do coine a Scientia Media, through which, as a necessary pair of spectacles, they consider God looking a far, to read what is written on the will of man, placed in such and such circumstances, that accordingly he may order his unchangeable decrees, either to Elect this man, who as he foreseeth, through this prospect of Scientia Media, will be a good and holy man, and continue in faith and obedience to the end; or to Reprobate that other man, who, as he espyeth by the same medium, will prove a son of belial, and will not beleeve, nor p. 136repent. If this man be of this opinion, I am far mistaken, if his Election and Reprobation, howbeit he call it Conditional, be not more fatally Inevitable, than what we say; for by this opinion, the Lord Jehovah himself is under a Fatal necessity of Electing those that are elected, and Reprobating such as are reprobated; for according as he seeth the determination of mans will, (which he cannot alter, matters standing in the supposed circumstances,) so must He passe his decrees. But others may think, that he rather imbraceth the Opinion of the Socinians (and Arminians homologate, as to several particulars, with them) who deny all Eternal Decrees, whether of Election or Reprobation, as concerning particular individual persons, granting only one general decree, which they call Predestination, whereby the Lord decreed to Elect in time all, that should be found in time to be Beleevers and Obedient, and Consequently to Reprobate and reject the rest: and this Election and Reprobation only in time they ascribe unto God; because they rob Him of all Fore knowledge: and they make it twofold, one Infirme, Conditional and Imperfect, which may alter, as men change their manners, so that a Reprobat to day may be an Elect tomorrow, and an Elect today a Reprobat the next day; another Firme, Fixed, Peremptory and Absolute, when the man hath finished his course, and ended his dayes: In all which the Arminians agree with them, except in this one thing, that the Arminians grant an eternal Election of Individual Persons upon the foresight of Faith, and Obedience, which the other grant not. Hence the greatest of my difficulty will flow from my ignorance of this mans true principles, for I shall not know how to vindicate truth, which we maintaine, so as to convince him, and stop his mouth, upon his owne grounds; as otherwayes, I should not doubt, through the assistance of his Spirit and Grace whose cause I plead, to do.

5. As concerning this matter, enough hath been said by the Orthodox against Pelagians, Semipelagians, Socinians, and Arminians; and this man confesseth he hath brought no new accusation against our doctrine, but he hath only scraped together as it would seem what he could get out of the dunghill of Iesuites and Arminians: And therefore we might dismiss him, by referring him to such as have written copiously, and very far above his reach, on this subject; even to some papists, such as the Dominicans, Alvares, Estius, Rispolis, Cajetanus, Sixtus Senensis, and to others more ancient, such as Aegidius Romanus, Gregorius Ariminensi…, and others cited by Estius: yet lest he should boast, we shal… view what he hath said, without enlarging much upon the matter. And as to our doctrine, the Reader may satisfy himself with what is Succinctly, Solidly, Plainly and Satisfying set down in our Confession of faith cap. 3. sect. 3, 4. & 7. and for cl…aring of the whole matter, he may read the whole Chapter, and there finde much in little bounds. For facilitating of our way in the f…llowing examination, I shall only propose a few things here in the entry, for understanding the tru…h, about Reprobation, without speaking to Election particularly.

6. And (1.) No man can den… a Reprobation, but he must withall deny an Election, for Election, being a choosing of some, cannot but import a leaving p. 137of others: And, I suppose, this Quaker will grant this, unless he be of the opinion of Hilberus, who asserted, that all men were Elected in Christ to salvation, whether they beleeved or not; not only contrary to the native & proper import of the word Election, which is a choosing & separating of some from others; but to plaine Scripture Mat. 20:16. & 24:24. Ioh. 10:26. 1 Cor. 1:26. Rom. 9:22, 23. & many other places. (2.) Seing then the Scripture is so full in proving of Election, we must assert that there is also a Reprobation: and beside, the Scripture pointeth forth the matter to us, Mal. 1:2. Rom. 9:13.22. 1 Pet. 2:8. Iud ver. 4. Mat. 25:41. Prov. 16:4. (3.) When we speak of Reprobation, (as opposed to Election, & as comprehended under Predestination, as a species, or part) we consider either the Act of God Reprobating; or the thing Decreed & Purposed by the act of Reprobation; that is, as the Schoolmen speak, vel quoad reprobantis actum, vel quoad reprobationis terminum. When we consider the Act of God reprobating, nothing in man can be any moving cause thereof; nay it is impossible it should be so; for, as Aquinas 1. p. quae…t. 23. art. 5. saith, there can be no cause of the will of God, a touching the act of willing; and the reason is manifest, because that act of God's will (as all immanent acts of God are) is Eternal: now man, & all that is in man, is of yesterday, & could not cause an eternal act; yea that act of God's will is God himself (unlesse we blasphemously say with Socinians, that the decrees of God are accidents in God, & so destroy his Simplicity;) and therefore we can no more imagine a cause in man of the act of Reprobation, than we can imagine, that there is something in man, which is a cause of God himself; which were absurd blasphemy. The will of God hath no cause, no antecedent, is dependant on, limited & determined by nothing in man, or any creature. The learned Doct. Twisse hath this argument further. If (saith he) sin be the cause of Reprobation, it is either so of its owne Nature, or by the Ordinance of God: Not the first, as all will confess. Not the second, for then God should ordaine, that upon the foresight of sin, he would ordaine man to damnation, & thus an Eternal Ordination should be the object of an Eternal Ordination. When we consider Reprobation in respect of its terminus, or thing willed & purposed by that act of God, we divide it into two parts, or say there are two maine things intended & purposed; (presupposing, & not mentioning, what is common both to Election & Reprobation, as Creation, &c.) as first the denyal of Grace, whereby they may be recovered from their state of sin: the second is the denyal of Glory, or adjudging them to eternal death. This last Being for sin, & a just execution of a righteous sentence, is not, neither can it be, without consideration of sin, as the meritorious procuring cause: So that, to speak properly, God doth not damne whom he will, Damnation not being an act of meer pleasure, but an act of justice, conforme to an established Law: But the other, the denying or not giving of grace, is an act of Absolute Freedom & Good Pleasure; for He hath mercy on whom He will, and whom He will he hardeneth Rom. 9:15, 18. And as God's granting of grace is an absolute act of his good pleasure, & free, & not for any merite or goodness in man; as all, except Pelagians, will confess; (yea Pelagius himself confessed it, at the Synod p. 138in Palestine;) so the Lord's denying of this g…ace and mercy must be Absolute and not Conditional▪ an act of the Lords free will and good pleasure, for the praise of his glory, there being no fixed Law constitute by God, according to which, he bestoweth Grace, or bestoweth it not; and there being no Reason imaginable, why the Lord should conf…rre grace upon Iacob, and not upon Esau, upon Moses and not upon Pharaoh, upon Peter and not upon Iudas, beside the good pleasure of God: as the Lord did set his love upon the people of Israel, because he loved them Deut. 7:6 7. so no cause can be given, why he would not have mercy on Pharaoh, on Esau, on Iudas, as well as on others, beside his God will and Pleasure, who hardeneth whom He will.

7. We must therefore in this matter carefully distinguish, betwixt Gods Decree, and the Things decreed: Things decreed may have their Causes, and one may depend upon another, as on the meritorious procuring cause, but the Decree of God is absolute, having no dependence upon any thing without, being the Absolute and Free act of his Will. God may and doth Decree, that this shall be because of that; and yet because of this he cannot be said to Will that. So when the Lord decreeth to damne some persons because of their sins, though sin be the procureing meritorious cause of damnation; yet it is not the procuring meritorious cause of Gods willing or decreeing to damne: Therefore though it be true, that God decreeth to save none, but such as Beleeve and continue in Faith and Obedience to the end; and to damne none but such as are Sinners and Continue in sin to the end; yet we must not say, that as Faith and Obedience in adult persons do preceed salvation, as some way disposeing causes thereunto, and as Final Perseverance in sin preceedeth damnation, as the meritorious cause thereof; so the Foresight of Faith, Obedience and Final Perseverance in both preceed election, or the decree of God, as disposeing causes or prerequisites thereunto; and the Foresight of Final Perseverance in sin preceed Reprobation, or the decree of God, as the meritorious cause thereof: for as the purpose of God, according to Election, is not of works, but of him that calleth Rom. 9:11. so the purpose of God according to Reprobation, cannot be of works; for the children being not yet born, neither having done good or evil, it was said, the Elder shall serve the Younger Rom. 9.11, 12. As the potter hath power over the clay of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour Rom. 9:21. so the Lord willing to shew his wrath. & to make his power known, may endure with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath, fitted to Destruction; and he may make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory Rom. 9: vers. 22.23.

8. As the Scripture holdeth forth Reprobation, as we heard, and may be further gathered, even as to the name, from Ier. 6:30. Heb. 6:8. 2 Tim. 3:8. So it holdeth it forth to us, sometimes in Negative termes, sometimes in Positive termes. Hence some speak of a Negative Reprobation, called Preterition, or passing by; which is a real Positive act in God, and not purely Negative, as some suppose; and of a Positive and Affirmative Reprobation, which they call p. 139Praedamnation. By the Negative Reprobation, they understand a Positive eternal act of God, whereby, according to the counsel of his own will, he passed by such as he did not Elect, and resolved not to give them saving grace, whereby they might be delivered from sin: as when Ch…ist saith Math. 7:23. I n…ver knew you: and Mat. 11:25, 26. I thank thee, ó Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise—Even so father, for so it seemed good in thy sight: And when mention is made of some, in the Revel. Chap: 13:… ▪ and 20:15. whose names were not written in the Book of Life. And when Christ saith Ioh. 10:26. Yee are not of my sheep. By the Positive or Affirmative Reprobation, they understand the Lord's positive Resolution, according to the unsear…hable counsel of his owne will, whereby he ordaineth such, as he hath passed by, to dishonour and wrath for their sin. Hence such are said to be hated Rom. 9:13. to be vessels of wrath fitted for destruction Rom. 9:21, 22. to be appointed unto stumbling at the word, &c. 1 Pet. 2:8. & ordained to condemnation Iud. vers. 4. to which also belongeth the Lord's just and judicial smiteing with blindeness, giving up to a Reproba… minde, and to their owne hearts lusts, hardening their hearts, and the like Rom 1:24, 26, 28. & 9:18. & 11:7. Psal. 81:12.

9. Now, as touching that question, that this Quaker is most busied with, viz. Whether Reprobation be absolute, and without all respect had to sin, or not; the Reader may see, by what is said, what is to be Answered thereunto. The Quaker, loving darkness, speaks undistinctly, either because Ignorant of the true question; or out of a malicious Designe, to render the Truth, & us for maintaining it, odious; or both: But we shall endeavoure, in a few words, to clear the mater. If we consider the act of Reprobation, as in God of whose will it is an Immanent and Eternal act, there can be no more cause of it, in man, or a…y creature, than of any other of his decrees, which are all one act, and so one with Himself: Yet this act of Reprobating, that is, of appointing and designing such or such individual persons, to the condemnation of hell for their sinnes; can not be said to be, as to its terminus, without all respect to sin: because, by it persons are appointed to punishment for their sins; and whatever God doth in time execute, He r…solved and determined from eternity to do the same, in the self same manner. As for the Execution of this decree in time, in reference to the denying or not giving of Faith, Repentance, Regeneration, or G…ace to recover out of the state of sin; we say this act is Absolute: as h…s giving of Grace, and Regeneration, upon the one hand is free, as the Scripture richly declareth; so th… withho…ding of this Mercy & Grace is an act of his Absolute Soveraignity and Free Will, who hath mercy on whom he will, and hardeneth whom he will: As concerning the act of inflicting spiritual Iudgments, the forerunners of hell, this being an act of Iustice, is not without respect to sin, its procureing cause, as the Scriptures lately cited evidence. The same we say of adjudging impenitent, and wicked persons, unto hell; for this is an act of justice, conforme to the established Law of God.

10. Though what we have said might suffice upon our part, for clearing of p. 140the truth, which we owne: yet because this Quaker rageth so much against Absolute Reprobation, by which he doth not meane, the actual Execution of this act, but the Act it self, we shall in short propose somethings, which will serve for confirmation of what we say. And (1.) There is a certane Analogy betwixt the decree of Election, & the decree of Reprobation; so that the one giveth light unto the other; & the one cannot be conceived without the other; for where there is an Election of some, there must be a Rejection of others, & so the one is opposite to the other: from this it is manifest that if Election be Free & Absolute, so must Reprobation be: for the objects of both are supposed to be in the same state & condition, equally represented in the minde of God, or considered, when the act passeth upon them; none deserving Election more than the rest, nor none more meriting Reprobation than the rest. If then Election be not upon the account of any good foreseen, in the elected, more than in others, whether it be Faith, or Obedience, or Perseverance in both to the end, or whatever else can be imagined; as all our Divines have showne, writing against the Arminians; it is manifest & cleare, that Reprobation cannot be upon the account of the Foresight of the contrary. Sin foreseen or considered in Iudas, could not be a cause moving God to Reprobat him, more than Peter, because the same was to be seen in Peter. And the Apostle cleareth & confirmeth this, when he saith Rom. 9:11, 12, 13. for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil—it was said unto her, the Elder shall serve the Younger; as it is written, Iacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Which place (2.) Doth further confirme, what we say; for here is a Discrimination made, one Loved, & the other Hated; that is, one Elected & the other Reprobated & Rejected, without any consideration had of good in the one, or evil in the other, as a procureing cause of these Acts of Gods will; for both Iacob & Esau are considered as being in a like condition, yet unborn, neither having done either good or evil. (3.) The supream wheel, moving all, is here said to be, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; & so there can be no procureing cause of this, in man. The one was preferred to the other, that the purpose of God, according to Election, might stand; & the other consequently was made to serve, that the purpose of God, according to Reprobation, might stand. (4.) Works, both good & evil, are here in plaine termes excluded, not of works; & there are no works excepted: if Election be without foreseen works, Reprobation must be so also; or we must say, that the Apostle argueth not acuratly; & that the Spirit of the Lord, in the Apostle, doth not cleare & explaine the point. (5) Vers. 17. from the instance of Pharaoh, of whom it is said, that God even for this same purpose had raised him up, that He might sh…w his power in him, &c. the Apostle inferreth, that God hardneth whom he will, as well, as from the instance of Iacob, preferred to his brother Esau, he inferred vers. 15. & 18. that he hath mercy on whom he will have mercy, and that he hath compassion on whom he will have compassion. (6.) The Objection, which the Apostle preoccupieth, Vers. 19. Thou wilt say then, why doth he yet find fault; for who hath resisted his will? doth manifestly speak the truth, we plead for: for if Election & Reprobation were not absolute, but upon foreseen p. 141works, what place could this Objection have? Why would the Apostle speak to an Objection, that were no way pertinent? Should there be any colour for any to propose this scruple, if the good & evil works of man, were the ground of all? (7.) The Apostles reply confirmeth this, when he sayeth. Nay, but O man, who art thou, that repliest, or dispurest, or it may be rendered responsats, or carps against God? Importing, that it is high arrogance, in the Clay creature, to call Jehovah to its barre, & to judge, or quarrel with, or disput against God, whatever he do, according to the purpose of his own will: But what ground were there for such a Pride-laying, Man-humbling, Mouth-stopping, Creature-abaseing, & felling answere, if all this matter did run upon the wheels of justice, or had its rise from man, or were ultimatly founded upon something in him? (8.) The answere added putteth the matter beyond all further dispute: Shall the thing formed say to him, that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay of the same lump, to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Where we see, That man is but as a lump of clay in the hands of the great Potter; & as there is nothing in one part of the same lump of clay, calling, inviteing, or moving the potter to make of it a vessel unto honour, or a vessel unto dishonour; so is there nothing in man, calling or moving God to make this man a vessel unto honour, & the other a vessel unto dishonour. And next we see, That all is ultimatly resolved into the pleasure of God, as the Potters mere pleasure is the cause of the discrimination of vessels, which he frameth out of the same lump (9.) These words vers. 22. further confirme our point; for, saith the Apostle, what if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted, or made up for destruction? &c. Importing that it is so, and that man hath nothing, to say against it. So we see, That as the vessels of mercy are afore prepared unto glory, so the vessels of wrath are afore prepared and made up for destruction: and that, as the first is done, that He might make known the riches of his glory, so the last is done, that He might shew his wrath, and make his power known. (10.) Christ Mat. 11:25, 26. referreth the Lords hiding of the Gospel-manifestations of life and salvation, from some, unto the good pleasure of God! and if this part of the execution of the decree of Reprobation be referred unto this Absolute Soveraignity & good Pleasure of God, as its first and only spring, much more must the Decree it self be reduced to this only Fountain. (11.) The like we may observe from 1 Pet. 2.8. & from Iud vers. 4. & from Revel 13:8 & 17:8. (12.) We are told, that the Lord added to the Church dayly such as should be saved Act. 2:47. and that, as many as were ordained to eternal life believed, Act. 13:48. where we see, that the appointing some to be saved, and ordaining them to eternal life, is given as the prime ground and cause of their being added to the Church, and Beleeving: whence it followeth, that the Lord did not adde others to the Church, nor give them grace to Beleeve, because he had not ordained and appointed them to life: the consequence of the Negation is as manifest, as the consequence of the Affirmation; and is clearly intimated, when the other is expressed.

11. Thus the Scripture confirmeth our point: we shall adde a few reasons, as p. 142(1.) No temporal thing, such as is mans sin, can be the cause of that, which is Eternal, as is God's act of Reprobation. If it be said, that the foresight of what is temporal may be the cause of an Eternal Decree: I answere. This cannot be; for how is it imaginable, That God's prescience should be the meritorious cause of his Decree? can one eternal Act of God be the meritorious cause (and of such a cause we speak here) of another? All the Eternal Acts of God are one, and they are the same with himself: how absurd is it then, to imagine one to be the meritorious cause of another? or the same act as terminated on one object, to be the meritorious cause of it self, as terminated upon another object? If it be said, that sin fore…een can be the cause of an Eternal act of Reprobation. Answ. But sin can not be foreseen as a thing that shall exist, without a previous decree concerning its existence, by the permission of God; and so sin must first be permitted, or decreed to be by permission, before any man can be Reprobated because of sin, by this Objection: and then, when we suppose sin to be permitted by a decree, I ask, for what end is this decreed permission? God decreeth nothing but for a certane end; and what is His End in this? is it that he may thereby be moved to Reprobat? Then his intention of Reprobation is first, for the intention of the End is before the Intention of the midss: and how absurd, and a theological is that to say, that God intended an End, and then he Intended Meanes to move him to intend that end? Againe, by this Assertion, the decree of Permitting sin, should be before the decree of Damning for sin; and so we must imagine the same order in the decrees, that we see in the things decreed; while as, how various soever the things decreed be, the decrees themselvs are all one pure act in God, who is actus purissimus & simplicissimus; and therefore sin foreseen can no more be the meritorious cause of the decree of Reprobating for sin, than of the decree of Permitting sin: And if we should imagine an order betwixt these two decrees, of Permitting of sin, and of Reprobating for sin, it must be such an order, as is betwixt the Intention of the End, and of the Meanes; and so the intention of Permitting sin, being first, should be of the End, which is always first in intention; and the intention of Reprobation, being the last of these two, should be of the Means: and so, we should be damned for sin, that we might be Permitted to sin: and that, which is first in Intention, as the End, being last in Execution, and that, which is a Means being first, it would follow, that man should be first damned, and then permitted to sin: which is obviously false and absurd (2.) if sin be the meritorious cause of Reprobation, then it is so either by necessity of Nature, or by the free Constitution of God. But neither can be said; as we saw above (….) The decrees of God can have no more a cause, than himself can have: all the Acts of God's will, being his Will, and his Will being Himself, we cannot imagine a cause in man of an act of his will, more than of himself (4) we should reason proportionably of the decree of Election, as we do of the decree of Reprobation (as we saw the Apostle doing) and so, if sin foreseen be the cause of Reprobation, grace foreseen must be the cause of Election: against the whole Scripture, and the Apostles expresse argueing Rom. 9. (5.) That procureing cause of Reprobation God could have prevented, or taken out of the way, p. 143if he had pleased; else we must imagine a stoical fate, overpowering God himself. If he might have taken it out of the way, and did not; can any reason hereof be given beside his owne good pleasure, or his designe to manifest the glory of his justice, in the just damnation of such? and doth not this referre the decree of damning for sin ultimatly unto His good pleasure? (6.) what are those sinnes, which are the procuring cause of Reprobation? This man will not say, that Original sin is the cause; for he denieth it; as we saw, in the proceeding Chapter. And what can that actual sin be? and whatever be supposed, it must be such, as could be foreseen in no other, otherwise the foresight thereof could not be the proper meritorious or moving cause, why this man was Reprobated more then that man; for what is to be foreseen in an Elect, cannot be the meritorious cause, why the other is Reprobated. Againe whatever actual sin that be, final Unbeleef, or what you will, it must either be such as God could have prevented or taken out of the way, if he had pleased; or not: if the first be said, then it is manifest, that the decree of Reprobation can not ultimatly be resolved into sin, as a procuring cause, but into the good pleasure of God; who would not take that sin out of the way, nor prevent its being. If this Last be said, then God was under a fatal necessitie of decreeing and doing all, which he decreed and did; and could not hinder sin, nor not create that man, nor alter any one circumstance, which did occasion that sin: and thus God himself shall be bound by the fetters of a fatal Necessity; yea and all this fatal Necessity shall have its rise from Man; which were most absurd and blasphemous, (7.) if actual sinnes be the consequent of Reprobation, and a mean whereby the execution thereof is brought about, they cannot be the procureing cause thereof. This is manifest. But the former is true. Therefore &c. That the former is true, is manifest from these words of Peter 1. Pet. 2:8. Where we see that these stumblers at the stumbling ston, and disobedient persons, were appointed, or ordained thereunto. So Ioh. 10:26: But ye beleeve not, because ye are not of my sheep: where it is manifest, that their not beleeving, was a clear consequent of their not being of his sheep. So Rom. 11:7..-Israel hath not obtained-but the Election, and the rest were hardened. So that it was from Election that such obtained, as did obtaine, and from Non-election that the rest obtained not, but were hardened (8) Sin is the moving cause of Actual damnation▪ If sin also be the moving cause of the decree of Reprobation; It would follow, that because of sin God decreed to damne because of sin: which is strange language.

12. Having premised these things, we come now to take notice of what he saith: we observed before one great mistake, in his set…ing downe of our judgment, as if God had determined the demonstration of his Iustice, without any resp…ct had to sin: Then he saith, (as further declaring our opinion,) that God, for perfecting of this, did appoint, that these miserable souls should necessarily sin. Resp. Here are moe mistakes; for first we say not, that Reprobation imposeth any necessity of sinning. The decree to punish for sin, doth not impose a necessity on the sinner to sin; nor yet the decree of denying grace, whereby they might be delivered from their sin: for that is only a decree of not delivering them out of that state, wherein they have brought themselves under a necessity p. 144of sinning; and so imposeth no necessity. Next as to God's Decreeing or willing that sin should exist, through his permission (which doth not properly belong to this question) neither doth that impose any absolute necessity, or take away the liberty of Mans Will, or the Contingency of events, as to second causes. And it would seem this man knoweth no difference, betwixt an Absolute necessity, and that necessity, which is meerly Hypothetical, But thirdly, there is another mistake here: for he would make his Reader beleeve, that we said, that all the necessity of sinning did flow from Reprobation; as if no necessity of sinning arose from their sinful state, wherein they are by the transgression of Adam: Beside, that we might observe, how, in this sentence, he contradicteth what he said in the former. He addeth, That by his Iustice, he might according to right, rebuke and afflict. This would import, that according to our judgment, Sin is permitted, or decreed to exist, the Lord permitting it, as a Meane, to the punishment, as the End; as if God intended punishment, as an end; and therefore suffered sin, as a mean…s; while as we look upon both the permission of sin, and the punishment thereof, as one meanes, for the setting forth of the glory of divine Justice. He proceedeth, as declareing our opinion: And therefore, that God not only suffereth these to be obnoxi…us to this misery, in many parts of the World, by withdrawing the preaching of the Gospel, and the knowledge of Christ. And here we finde some more mistakes; for we say, that all men by nature are into this state of sin and misery, whether they hear the Gospel, or not: and so their obnoxiousness unto that misery dependeth not upon their want of preaching, and of the knowledge of Christ, though this be a necessary meane of delivering them out of it. Againe his Therefore pointeth out another mistake; for as we speak not thus, so far less do we inferre this from what he mentioned before. Thirdly, his word subtrahendo, withdrawing, pointeth forth a third mistake; for it will import, that we say, that the Gospel is once preached to every person, yea and to every Reprobate; for how else can it be said to be withdrawne. And here is a further mistake, when he addeth, and the knowledge of Christ, for hereby the Reader might think, that we thought every Reprobat had the knowledge of Christ, but because he was a Reprobat, it was taken away from him, and withdrawn, He saith moreover, that we say, God, even in these places, where the Gospel is preached, and salvation is offered by Christ, withdraweth from them all grace, whereby it was possible for them to apprehend the Gospel. Here are also several mistakes; for his subtraxisse importeth, that God hath given to every one, who heareth the Gospe…, grace, whereby they may imbrace the Gospel; and then withdraweth it from the Reprobate, because they are such: where readeth he such language in the writtings of our Divines? Next we say not (as he here insinuateth that we do) that the grace, which God withholdeth from the Reprobat, is that by which faith in the Gospel is meerly possible; but that rather, without which they cannot beleeve, and with which they cannot but beleeve: that is, He withholdeth the grace of Faith, which being his owne free gift Ephes. 2:8. He bestoweth it upon w…om He will: for he blesseth with all spiritual blessings such, as he hath chosen before the foundation of the world, that they might be …oly p. 145Ephes. 1:3, 4. He proceedeth in relating our opinion thus; Because by his own secret will, he did decree, that they should not obey, and that the Gospel should never be effectual to their salvation, and that without all respect had to their sin. Where there ar… other mistakes to be observed, for first He no where readeth, that Reprobation is a decreeing that men should not obey. Next whe… our divines speak of God's decrees about sin, they never utter their minde so bluntly, as to say, Go… decreed that they should not obey; but th…y use to speak thus, God willed, or decreed, that sin should exist he himself permitting it: or, as some, He willed the permission of sin. Thirdly here is another mistake: for as to some, who hear the Gospel, and harden their hearts beyond ordinary, God in Iustice giveth them up to the power of unbeleef, as a Spiritual judicial stroke, or taketh away the Gospel from them, a…d so Non-churcheth them, and this as a punishment: and as the Lord doth so in time, so he decreed to do so; therefore there was some consideration of sin here, though sin was no procureing, or meritorious cause of the decree. At length he concludeth, and saith further (as if it were our opinion,) that God decreed to send the Gospel to such, as obey it not, only to accumulate their damnation. Where is another mistake, as if this were God's End, or his only End; and as if we affirmed it were so; while as both are most false, and contradicted by what himself said a little before.

13. Thus have we briefly considered his Representation of our Judgment, and have found no fewer than twelue abuses and untruths: so that, no honest man can acknowledge this for a true declaration of the truth, which we maintaine: and with this open discovery of his unfaire dealing, might we rest satisfied, because it is to be presumed, his following reasons can conclude only against this, he hath laid forth, as our judgment; but as we have showne, This is not our judgment, and therefore his Ar…uments cannot touch us, if they lavel at nothing, but at this man of straw, which he hath made for himself to shoot at: Yet, lest he boast, as if we were not able to look his Reasons in the face, we shall view them.

14. He tels us, that this is a new opinion, there being no mention made thereof, in the first four hundered yeers after Christ: and that Augustin laid the first foundation thereof, in his later writings, out of zeal against the Pelagians, and sowed some sayings, which some have unhappily laid h…ld on, to strengthen this errour, whereby they contradict both truth, and the sayings of Augustin, and others. Answ (1.) This man would make us b…leeve, that he had read all the Fathers, that wrote before Augustine: but we know, whence he hath this, for it is, the old saying of Arminians. But (2.) This can conclude nothing against the Truth, which we have seen asserted in the Scriptures of truth. The Fathers, in those ages, had not to do with such hereticks, as were the Pelagians. Before that Enemy of the grace of God arose, the Church was in p…ace, as to these controversies, and the Fathers had no occ…sion to debate such questions, as Pelagius afterwards gave occasion unto. Can he evince, that all the Fathers before Augustine, were of a contrary opinion to what we maintaine? (3.) Is this mans Religion grounded upon the authority of men? And will he beleeve no more, than what the p. 146Fathers said in the first foure ages? Let him follow what cisterns he pleaseth, we will satisfie ourselves with the Word, as the ground of our Faith; and we do look upon the Apostles, as more ancient than these Fathers, and take their positive assertions as of more authority, than the silence of these (4.) Yet Augustine de dono persever, Cap. 11. citeth Ambrose, Nazianzen, and Cyprian, as concurring with him, in the ground of his doctrine of Predestination. (5.) as concerning Augustine, what this man groundlesly suggesteth of him, is the same he said before, when speaking of Original sin; and there we answered it. (6.) what contradictions are in our doctrine either unto Truth, or unto Augustine, he hath not showne: Augustine, it is true, in his later dayes, and after more mature deliberation, and consideration of the matter, occasioned by his disputs with the Pelagians, did retract somethings said by himself, in his younger yeers; But all this is for the further Confirmation of the truth▪ which we owne. The Reader, who desireth more satisfaction, concerning this matter of Antiquity, as to this point, may consult the learned D. Twisse against Mr Hoord, Sect. 1.

15. He next tels us, that the Dominicans imbraced this Opinion: And so he giveth us to understand, that he is more pleased with the doctrine of the Iesuites. But all, except Pelagian-Arminians, confesse, that in these points, the Dominicans are preferable to the Iesuites, who are more downe right Enemies to the grace of God. And then with a crocodile tear, (as it were) in his eye, he tels us with an Alas, that Calvin éspoused this opinion, and addeth that he wronged his name much hereby; But with none of the orthodox, I am confident; for as to what this Quaker, and his Arminians, say in this, we value it not. He addeth that hereby the Christian and Protestant Religion was defamed. And yet the world heard of no such thing, but by Papists, Iesuites & Arminians; & who is bound to regard their scandal, who are blinde leaders of the blinde? must truth be foresaken, because these Enemies to the grace of God like it not? He confesseth that the Synod o… Dort did defend our opinion; but addeth; that notwithstanding it is exploded by the major part of learned and pious men in all the Churches of Protestants. We know indeed, that too many nowadayes are turning from the truth, and imbraceing Pelagian, Iesuitical and Arminian errours: but that they make up the major part we deny: possibly he will take in the Lutherans: but we account them not Reformed Protestants.

16. But Pag. 66. he tels us, he would not much regaird all this; if our opinion had any ground in the word: And we have shown that it hath good ground, there. Then he saith, that it is most injurious unto God. If this be true, it must certanly be an Errour; but how is this made good? It maketh (saith he) God the Author of sin. An heavy charge if true: yet this is so clear (thi…keth he) as that two and one make three. But a Quakers confidence, following a blinde guide, is no strong argument to us: let us hear his reason If (saith he) the Lord decreed, that these predestinate ones should perish, having no respect unto their evil actions, but out of his meer good pleasure; and if he also decreed, long before they did exist, or in any capacity did either good or evil, that they should be in these sins, by p. 147which secondarily they were to be led unto that end: who is the first Author and cause of this our God, who so willed and decreed it? then which there cannot be a more necessary consequence. Answ. (1.) The word Predestinate being usually taken in a good sense, as meaned of these Elected to glory, the man vents his gall, in thus misapplying the word to render the truth Odious. (2.) Though no consideration of sin was, or could be the Meritorious, Moving or Procureing cause of God's eternal decree; yet when he decreed to puni…h everlastingly th… Reprobat for their sinnes, he cannot be said to have no respect to sin, in his decree (as he here alleigeth, who considereth not well what he sayeth) (3.) Though he decreed to punish everlastingly for sin such and such persons, and none else, meerly out of his owne good will and pleasure; yet he cannot be said to have had no respect to sin, which punishment alwayes presupposeth, and answereth unto. (4) If God's decrees be not before man exist, or do any good or evil, they cannot be Eternal, but Temporal: and so this man is a Socinian: and the decree of God concerning every individual person, must exist when the man hath done good or evil; and so, as many men, as many decrees▪ nay according to this man, the Lord can make no decree, concerning the Everlasting state of man, so long as he liveth; and so not only we cannot, but God himself cannot say to, or of any man, before the point of death, that he is a Reprobate or an Elect: what Apprehensions these men have of God, I tremble to express (5.) What he meaneth by these words, ut in iniquitatibus illis versarentur, I know not, unless their meaning be, as I have expressed it. And what would he then make of them? He cannot deny, but God did permit sin; nor will he say, that God could not have prevented sins coming into the world, if He had pleased: will he say, that God did not foresee sinnes coming into the world? If he did foresee it, and might have hindered it, if he had pleased, and did not hinder it; shall we say, that sin came into the world, whether he would or not? And if he willed or decreed that sin should exist, through his permission, shall we call him the author of sin? Then he must be the author of sin, because he did not hinder sin effectually by his Omnipotency: and then, whatever we say of Reprobation, whether we affirme it to be Absolute, or upon sin Foreseen, there is no remedie as to this, for God must alwayes be the Author of sin: But hallowed be his Name. (6.) The Decree of Reprobation putteth no man into a state of sin: It is true, the Execution the…eof presupposeth sin: but hence it will no more follow, that the decree of Reprobation placeth a man in sin, than that the decree of Election doth so; for the execution here presupposeth also mans being in sin. (7.) Where readeth he that expression, among our divines, that by vertue of the decree of Reprobation, the Reprobat are secondarily led or to be led to destruction, as the end? The Lord leadeth no man to destruction, but every reprobat runeth head long thither, of his own accord; and because the Lord hath designed and decreed to let them run-on, and not restraine them by saving grace, shall he therefore be the Author of their sinnes? Then all the sins that are committed, must be charged upon the Holy one of Israel: because He did not prevent them by his grace. And thus the devils may come in play, and learne p. 148of this man to plead Excuse for themselves, and lay the blame of all their wickedness upon God: Sure this must be Develish doctrine. (8.) But what is it, that God is the Author and Cause of? His hujus doth not distinctly inform us. That he is the Author and Cause of his own Act and Decree, is most true: But that he is the Cause and Author of sin, as this man would inferre, we see not the Antecedent, from whence this Consequence can follow. Beside, that the Author of a thing, is he by whose authority or judgment, it is done, or upon whose testimony, it is beleeved; for Cicero opposeth Authorem and dissuasorem, and joineth these together, as of the same import, Hortator atque Author; Consiliarius & Author; Suasor & Author: & Plautus said, Impero autorque sum: Now dar this Man say, that God Exhorteth, Counseleth, and perswadeth to sin? Dar this Man say, that we hold▪ or t…at it followeth from our ju…gment, that by God's Authority, Sentence and Swasion, sin is committed? Let him prove this, and then carry the cause. (9.) In a word, we referre this Man to the Apostle Paul Rom. 9:11, 12 13. to receive his answere, and let him dispute no more against us, till he once take the boldness to confute that: & his inferring from our doctrine, that God is the Author of sin, is but the same, which the Apostle saw would be deduced from his doctrine, by men of corrupt mindes, when he addeth by way of Objection, vers. …4.—Is there unrighteousness with God? And if our answere will not satisfie him, let him confute the Apostles answere; for we but say the same, viz. That God hath mercy on whom he will, & hardeneth whom he will. And if for this cause, our doctrine be blamed, we cannot help it; but must be content to be contradicted: and if he make use of the reply used vers. 19. we must give the returne, which the Apostle giveth vers. 20, 21. And if all this will not satisfie, we must leave him to the judgment of the great day, when that God, against whom these proud carpers thus reply, shall answer them by himself, & put them to eternal silence and everlasting shame.

17. Thereafter he citeth some sayings of Calvin, Beza, Zanchius, Pareus, Martyr, Zuinglius, & Piscator, out of which he would inferre, that they allaiged, God was the Author of sin. All which and moe, he might finde collected to his hand by Bellarmin. and answered by the learned D. Twisse, in his Vindiciae. And therefore, as also because, this belongeth to a distinct question, we need neither spend time in searc…ing out what truth is in all this; not yet in vindicating of them. One thing I shall say; That among them all, he shall not finde one, that saith directly that God is the Author and Culpable Cause of sin: and if he suppose, that this may be drawn from their expressions, I shall only reply. That if there be any of them that giveth more real ground for such an Inference, than the very Expressions used in Scripture, I shall not owne them: and if they say no more, and yet are condemned by him, as making God the Author of sin, though they expresly deny it; let him see, how he shall vindicate the Spirit of Go… from the same charge, or rather how in his blind boldnesse he charges the Spirit of God. As for these passages of Scripture, which our Divines a…duce against the Pelagians and Iesuites, who ascribe unto God, in the mat…er of sin, an Idle Provide…c… a…d Perm…ssion, Bellarmine ranketh them up in five classes: First, Such as speak of God's Willing and Decreeing from eternity, p. 149that sin shall exist: such are Act. 2:23. & 4:27. Esai. 53:10. Second, Such as import God's creating evil men, for this end, that his righteousness might shine forth in their punishment: such are Prov. 16:4. 1 Sam. 2:25. Exod. 9:16. Rom. 9:17, 21. Third, Such as import God's setting of Satan and men to evil, and useing of them, as instruments, to do that which could not be done, without sin: such are 1 King. 22:20, 23. Iob. 1:12. & 2:6. 2 Sam. 16.10. & 24:1. Esai. 5:26. & 10:5, 15. & …3:17. & 19:2, 4. Ier. 50:24, 25. & 51:11. Ezech. 12, 13. Psal. 105▪ 25. &c. Fourth, Such as speak of God's blinding, hardening, &c. as Exod. 4.21, & 7:3, 13. & 9.12. & 10:1, 20, 27. & 1…:10. & 14:4, 8. Deut. 2:30. Iosu. 1…:20. 1 Sam. 2:25. Iob. 12:16, 20, 24. Esai. 19:14. & 63:17. Ier. 20:7. Ioh. 12:3…, 40. Rom. 1:24, 26, 28. & 9:18. 2 Thes. 2:11. &c. Fift, Such as import God's doing of those things, which are evil; as 2 Sam. 12 11. Luk. 2:34. Rom. 9:33. Esai. 8:14. & 28:16. Gen. 45 8. 1 King. 11:31, 37. & 12:15, 24. 2 King. 9:3. & 10:30. &c. Now, if he can adduce any testimony of our Divines, whence he can with more probability inferre, that God is the Author of sin, I shall not, as I said, owne it. And if such as are but consonant to the Scriptures, do not please him, the next time he must disput against the Scriptures of truth, and not against us.

18. …e inveigeth next Pag 67. against that monstrous (as he calleth it) and twofold will, which they (he meaneth the orthodox) feigne of God, one by which he openly and manifestly declareth his sentence, the other plaine contrary, more secret & obscure. But to what purpose is this brought in here? And what would he make of it? He saith we seem to assume this distinction; and hereby, he seemeth to reject it. But not to run out into a debate with him, upon every light occasion. I would only enquire, if he acknowledgeth any Decrees of God, at all? If he do, what are these Decrees else, than acts of God…s will? If they be nothing else; than, we may say, God willeth what he decreeth: for, sure, we cannot say, God nilleth, or willeth not, what he decreeth to be. Againe I would ask, whether the Commands and Law of God be signes of his will? If they be, as, I suppose, he will grant: then I would ask, if he thinketh, that God Decreeth the same thing, which He Commandeth, and nothing else; and so that God's Decree and Command are all one? If he say that they are one; than the decrees of God may be Resisted, Opposed, Contradicted, Contraveened, and have no effect, for it is oft so with his Commands; But all Divines will hisse at this: If he say that they are not one: where is then the Monstrosity or Absurdity of this saying? He must also assume this distinction. The truth is, This man speaketh he knoweth not what. The Scriptures oft give the name of will unto God's Purposes and D…crees, as Act. 21:14. Rom. 1:10. 1 Pet. 3:17. Rom. 9:15, 18, 19. Ephes. 1:5. Revel. 17:17. Luk. 22:42. Mat. 26.42. So doth it often times give this title unto his Commands, as is every where manifest. And though these two, the Purpose of God, and the Will of Command, do not alwayes agree, as to the same event; Yet there is no monstrosity here of a twofold contrary Will; for the Purpose of God is not of the same nature, with his Command: His Purpose, (which Divines commonly call his Will in proper sense) is purely concerning the Event, and respectet… God as the first Cause & Prime p. 150disposer of all Events in the world; but his Command, or Law, toucheth not the Events of actions, but only pointeth forth mans Duty, and respecteth God, as the supream Lawgiver, prescribing the duty of his Subjects. These both are cleared by that one Instance (to adduce no moe) of Abraham, whom God commanded to offer up his Son, and so made it Abrahams duty to …et about this; and to endeavour it, But as to the event, the Lord had decreed, that Isaak should not be offered, nor Abraham get leave to offer him up indeed, where is this contrarietie then the man talks of?

19. Next he tels us that it availeth nothing to say, that man doth willingly and of his owne accord sin, for this proclivity and propensity to sin, according to us, (saith he) is necessarily imposed upon him, because God did decree it should be so. Ans. Not to debate these questions, with this man, who seemeth not to understand the matter, I shall only tell him, that his Objection here is very neare of kin with that Rom. 9:19. Thou wilt say unto me, why doth he yet finde fault; for who hath resisted his will? If this be not the very compend of his following words, let any that read them judge: It is the same (saith he) as if I should take an infant, that cannot resist, and cast him d…wne from an high place, though his weigh… cause him descend, yet I am the cause of his death &c. Now, what saith the Apostle to this? Nay O man (take heed to this O Quaker) who art thou that repliest, or disputest against God? &c. Thus the proud Quaker forgeteth that he is a thing formed of God: or he is so unreasonable▪ as to debate the matter with God; and say, Why h…st thou formed me thus? Can we think to satisfie this Quaker, who will not be satisfied with this? What sayes he to that word 1 Sam. 2:25. notwithstanding they h…rkened not unto the voice of their Father, because the Lord would stay them? will this man advocate the ill cause of these wicked sons of Eli, and lay all the blame upon the Lord? He must plead also for Pharaoh; and say he did no wrong, in refusing to let the people of Israel go; for he could no otherwise do, because the Lord had hardened his heart. But it is little, that this man should plead the cause of these wicked ones; and of the King of Assyria, the rode of God's anger, and the staff in his hand, Esai 10:5. yea and of all the wicked, whom God hath made for the day of evil, and that for himself Prov. 16:4. seing he taketh upon him, to agent and plead the Devils cause, against Iehovah; because, when God decreed, that he should affl…ct Iob, he was free of sin; all the blame lay up on the Lord: for Satan could do no other wise, an inevitable necessity was put upon him▪ by the decree of God, according to this mans doctrine. Is not the Devil much beholden to this Quaker, for his good will to learne him how to speak, in his owne defence against the Lord. But I am afrayed, his reward shall not quite his cost. We have told him already, that the decree of Reprobation imposeth no necessity upon man to sin; but this necessity cometh from mans natural corrupted state: Yea Corvinus himself at knowledgeth, that it was Arminius his doctrine, that all men naturally are cast upon a necessity o… sinning. See D. Twisse against Mr Mason. Pag. 18. It is all one thing with this man, whether a thing come to passe by the free will of the second cause; or by Necessity of nature, as the sun shineth; if p. 151there be a decree past, all the guilt must lye upon Iehovah: and thus either God hath made no decrees at all, touching the actions of free agents, good or evil: or all their actions must be acts of Necessity, yea Pure and Absolute Necessity; and so all contingency is taken away, and all Freedom, from second causes; or men and angels must be Absolute and independent Agents, over whom and whose actions, God must passe no decree: let every one judge, whither this doctrine tendeth: and what an exalter of Free will into the very throne of God, this Quaker is.

20 Next he saith, our doctrine is injurious to God, because it maketh him to delight in the death of the wicked, and to will, that many should die in their sinnes, contrare to Ezech, 33:11. 1 Tim. 2:3. 2 Pet. 3:9. Answ. (1) If he think to prove hence, that God did not decree absolutly to suffer any to lye in sin, and to punish them at length because of sin, he must think from this effectually to prove, that God did Absolutely Decree, that all men should be saved: and so, either all men must be saved, or else God's decree is null: and if all men must be saved, then indeed there is no Election: if all men shall not be saved, but some damned, how then willeth God, that all men should be saved? Or how is his Will Efficacious and Irresistible? (2.) It is true, the Lord, to speak of Him, after the maner of men, for in God there are no Passions, of Joy, Delight, or Sorrow &c. is not a God that taketh delight in the death of sinners, yea such delight in their hurt and distruction, that whether they repented & amended, or not, he would notwithstanding destroy them: as these wicked Iewes, to whom this was said, did wickedly alleige. See and consider vers. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 20. so that the whole scope cleareth this to be the proper meaning; as also the parallel place Ezech. 18. from Vers. 19. to 30. Now will any hence gather, that the Lord hath no delight in the just punishment of impenitent sinners? If they do, their Conclusion will be contradictory to Scripture Prov. 1.24, 25, 26. Ier. 9:24. Esai. 1:24. Ezech. 6:13. (3.) The thing that he would inferre from hence is, that God doth not Reprobate any Absolutely; that is, doth not purpose to punish them, out of his mere pleasure, and not for their sinnes: And say we, that he punisheth, or purposeth to punish any not for their sinnes, but to satisfie his owne pleasure? No, we say no such thing: His Conclusion then can make nothing against us: nor doth his Argument hence reach this, which we say, that God of his meer pleasure, without any thing to move him from without, decreeth to punish, or to inflict Death and Damnation, for sin: and if he think, that the one followeth the other, he must lay this down for a ground, that the Decree, and the Execution of the decree are all one thing, or that the decree to damne for sin, and damnation for sin is all one thing: But he, nor any man, shall never evince this: or that every thing, which is the cause of of Damnation, must also be a cause of the Decree to damne.

21. He proceedeth §. 4. & tels us, that this doctrine is injurious unto Christ the Mediator. And why so? Because it maketh his mediation ineffectual. Answ. Not at all, as to these, for whom it was intended and appointed; that is, the p. 152Elect. As if he hy his Passions had not broken down the middle wall of partition Ans. That middle wall of partition, that was betwixt jew and gentile, was quite taken away: But the middle wall betwixt the Elect and Reprobat, was never Intended to be taken down. Nor had pacified the anger of God towards all men. Ans. Nor was that the End of Christs coming and dying. How he pacified the anger of God towards such, as perish eternally, and were already in hell, we understand not. He carps at that which some say viz. That Christ's death was sufficient for all (of which saying I seee little use, seing Christ's death was a price, upon a compact, and so its sufficiency and value is truely and properly commensurable with the compact, and is so to be considered) and sayeth, that it cannot helpe, if the vertue thereof be not extended to all, s… as all may be made capable of salvation; or if salvation be not thereby made possible unto all. And as to this, I am not far from his judgment; But yet, if there be not another way laid down, than he yet mentioneth, I see not but Christ's death might have been only Sufficient for all; and not Effectual for any one; for as he is against Reprobation; he must be against Election also; and so must say, that Christ laid down his life for all; though he knew not if any one should be saved by it; yea that he might have had all he died for, though not one should have been saved; and how injurious this is unto the death and mediation of Christ, let any judge; and we will have more occasion to speak of this, in the f…llowing Chapter.

22. In the fourth place Pag. 78. he sayeth. The preaching of the Gospel is, by this doctrine, made a meer mock and illusion, if many of them, to whom it is preached, be secluded from receiving any good thereby, by an irrevocable decree… the preaching of faith and repentance is vaine; and so is all the scope of the promises and tbreatnings; seing all is referred to the foresaid decree &c. Ans. (1.) The preaching of the Gospel cannot be said to be in vaine, when the end for which it was mainly sent, is gained, viz. the Elect are converted and established thereby: and the decree of Reprobation cannot hinder this. But as to the Reprobat, he will say, it is fruitless and vaine. Then he should not have spoken so generally, but should have restricked his discourse. But (2.) even as to the Reprobat, it may gaine the end, for which it was sent of the Lord, notwithstanding of the decree of Reprobation, even as the Command of God by Moses to Pharaoh had its end, and was no Illusion, notwithstanding that the Lord hardened his heart, that he should not obey, till the Lord had brought all the plagues upon Egypt, that he resolved to bring: And as the commission which Esai gote, Chap. 6. was no cheate, or moke, though it was to make the heart of that people fat, and their eares heavy, and to shut their eyes, lest they see with their eyes, hear with tbeir eares, and understand with their hearts, and convert and be healed vers. 10. Will this man say, that the Lord was but mocking the people of Israel▪ when he made them see all that he did before their eyes, in the land of Egypt, unto pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land; the great temptations, which their eyes had seen, and the signes, and the great miracles, because the Lord did not give unto them an heart to perceive and eares to heare and eyes to see, unto that day Deut 29▪ 2, 3, 4? was it were mo…king that God sent Ezechiel, whether the people would hear, or whether they would forbear, when yet they should know, p. 153there had been a Prophet among them, notwithstanding that the Lord told the Prophet, that the house of Israel would not hearken unto him, for they were impudent and hard hearted, Ezech. 3:7, 11: & 2:5. & 33:33? Did not Christ know, that his word should not do good to many, that did heare it? Shall we therefore think, that he but mocked, when he preached the word unto them? (3.) The Apostle tels us, that he made himself a servant unto all, not as thinking to gaine all, but that he might gaine the more, 1 Cor. 9:19. And againe vers. 22. He became all things to all men, that he might by any meanes save some. And who were these some? See 2 Tim. 2:10. Therefore I endure all things, for the Elects sake, that they may also obtaine the salvation, which is in Christ Iesus, with eternal glory. And shall we think, that the Lord cannot send out his servants, to call-in the Elect, but he must point them out unto them, by name and sirname? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, shall endure with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction? Rom. 9:22. Shall we quarrel with the Most High? If God make the chiefe Corner stone, that is Elect and Precious unto Beleevers, a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient, whereunto also they were ordained, 1 Pet. 2.6, 7, 8. must we impute folly unto our God, and say, that He is mocking? (4.) The whole of this discourse is founded upon this grand Errour, that Faith and Repentance is not the free gift of God, contrare to Ephes. 2:8. & 6:23. Phil. 1:29. 1 Cor. 4:7. Act. 5:31. & 11:18. 2 Tim. 2:25. For, if Paul may plant and Apollos water, but God only must give the increase, 1 Cor. 3:5, 6.7. Then the giving of success unto the preaching of the Gospel, must be Gods free gift; otherwise what can Quakers pray for; or Ministers say, when they are praying to God for a blessing on their labours? Nay, it seemeth Quakers are against all such prayers, being pure Pelagians; and so asserte, that Man of himself may Believe and Repent. If not, will they not grant God liberty to distribute his owne gifts as he will, 1 Cor. 12:11? Is God under any Obligation to give grace to all, that heare the Gospel? This were pure Pelagianisme, to say that grace is conferred according to works. (5.) This mans owne doctrine is exposed to the same Inconvenience; for he telleth us afterward, as we shall heare, that there is a time and date prescribed to every man, after which their salvation is not possible: now I suppose he will grant that the Word, or at least the Light within, may continue exhorting such to repent and returne, & yet all is in vaine, for the door is shut: will he say, that God thereby is but mocking them? Let him first liberate his owne doctrine, and then returne upon us.

23. In the fift place he tels us, that our doctrine is injurious to the coming and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ. Why so? Because it makes it a great judgment & plague unto many, &c. Ans. And must not Christ be for the fall of many in Israel? Luk. 2:34. Why else is he called a stone of stumbling? Esai. 8:14. Rom. 9▪ 33. 1 Pet. 2:6. Why doth Christ say, that it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon, at the day of judgment, then for Chorazin and Bethsaida? And for the land of Sodom, than for Capernaum, Mat. 11:21, 22, 23, 24. And why saith he Ioh 15:22, 24, 25 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin, but now they have no cloak for their sin. If I had not done among them the works, which no other man did, they had not had p. 154sin—but this cometh to passe, that the word might be fulfilled, that is written in their Law, they hated me without a cause? Why saith he Ioh. 9:39—for judgment I am come into this world—that they which see might be made blinde? Let the Quaker answere these passages, and then rant, according to his owne minde: And let him tell me, how it will fare with those, that do not repent before their day of visitation goeth over? It is this mans had to wound himself, out of a keenness in pursueing us.

24. In the Sixt place, he saith, that it is injurious to mankinde, making mans condition worse then the Devils. Ans. This were an injury indeed; but the Challenge is neither True nor Honest; for we look upon Devils as already under the Execution of the decree of Reprobation, and in the same state, as to this matter, that Reprobates are into, after death; and we suppose it is far otherwise with men, though Reprobate, before death, than it is with Devils: Devils are under no offer of mercy now, Men are: Devils know themselves to be damned; men do not: Devils are damned irrecoverably, for their first sin; man that cometh to age, sinneth himself more and more unto damnation: Man that heareth the Gospel is punished because he will not accept of the offer, but doth willingly reject it; He doth not beleeve, and he will not beleeve; can this be said of Devils? Devils are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day Iud. 6. This cannot be said of the Reprobat yet alive: Many of the Reprobats have common graces, and favours of God, and are restrained from many sinnes: which cannot be said of Devils. But what is the matter? The Devils had once a possibility of standing: But many millions of men had never any opportunity of salvation; but because of Adams sin, of whom they never knew any thing, were to be perpetually tormented. But did not all mankinde, by our doctrine, stand in Adam, & fall with him? They are not then punished for anothers sin, but for their owne; as we manifested, in the foregoing Chapter. How doth this reach all mankinde, when God, according to his everlasting good pleasure hath chosen a goodly number, whom he will glorifie for ever: will the Lord do so with any of the Devils? Belike, that their condition may not be every way worse then mans, this Quaker will give them hopes, that some of them, at least, may be saved, provideing they hearken well to the Light within, & they have th… conviction & faith of a God, & know that he is Merciful, Holy, Just, &c. as well as men; & Are of as sharpe Understanding & in knowing what is right & wrong, as many men are. But if all this will not satisfy this Quaker, let me speak to him, in the words of the Apostle; for it may be, he will carry some respect to them, the words are to be found Rom. 9:20. Nay, but O man, who art thou, that replyest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him, that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? &c. But he addeth, that we put man in a worse condition, than the beasts are in. Why so? Because their owners require no more of them, than they are able to do; and when they are dead, there is an end of their misery: but by our doctrine, man is perpetually tormented, because he doth not that, which he cannot: and thus God dealeth with man, worse than Pharaoh did with the Israelites; for though he withheld straw from them, they could get it with a little more industry. Answ. What shall we say unto this Man, who thus barketh and belcheth out against God: He supposeth, p. 155that he is spewing out this gall against us; alas what are we, that he should thus bark against us? His barkings will be found against the Lord; and therefore I shall say againe, O man, who art thou, that repliest against God &c. Art thou also offended, that God hath given thee an immortal soul, and made thee a man, out of the same lump of clay, out of which he made the beast? Why art thou then angry that God, out of the same lump, maketh one, a vessel of honour, and another, a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? But next, will he say, that all men naturally can Beleeve and Repent and fulfill the conditions, upon which salvation is offered? Yes, this he must say, or he saith nothing against us here; and then he must be as much a Pelagian, as ever Pelagius was himself. Then Faith is not the gift of God, but of ourselves, contrare to Ephes. 2. v. 9. and other Scriptures above cited. Then Faith is not the faith of God's elect, contrare to Tit. 1:1. Then a natural man, and he that is in the flesh, can please, God, contrare to Rom. 8:8. Then the natural man can receive the things of the Spirit of God, contrare to 1 Cor. 2:14 Then he contradicteth all his owne doctrine formerly examined Chap. v. Then we need not pray for faith and Repentance, or a Circumcised heart, or Regeneration, or a New heart, or an heart of flesh; nor give God thanks for any of these things, because they are all in our owne power, and then the Beleever maketh himself to differ, contrare to 1 Cor. 4:7. What a contradiction this is to the whole Gospel, and to the whole tenor thereof, no man, that hath once read it, can be ignorant. We thank him this once, for this plaine and ingenuous insinuation. This may help us to understand him better in what is following. But if he say, that they can do, what is required, by the help of the grace of God. He knoweth, that we say so; but his Aggravations here have a far other tendency; for his instance of the beasts & of Pharaohs carriage, were else utterly impertinent. Nay, what meaneth the man to compare the matter, unto Pharaoh's withdrawing of straw; yea and make it worse? Say we that God taketh away that Grace to beleeve and Repent, that wicked men would as faine have, as the Israelites would have had straw? or that Reprobation maketh men unbeleevers against their will, and taketh away the Power and Grace to beleeve, which they had? It is little wonder, that this man, who dar thus open his mouth against heaven, spew out lies and calumnies against us. We must beare it, knowing that he will come to Judgment; and that our Doctrine is consonant to that Rev. 22:17.—and whosoever will, let him take of the waters of life freely; and to that Ioh. 6:37.—and him that cometh to me, I will in no wayes cast out.

25. He proceedeth in his calumnies and saith P. 69. That by our doctrine, we place Mankinde in the same state, that the Poets feigned Tantalus to be in, who being thirsty was placed in water to his chinne, so that he could not drink: And why? because we say, that the works of creation and providence among heathens, are not to bring them to salvation, but only to convince them of sin, & so serve for their condemnation. Answ. (1.) But what hath this to do with Reprobation? The man in his rage runneth himself blinde, that he knoweth not what he saith (2) Do Heathens make up all mankinde? (3.) Are the Heathen as desirous of Salvation and of the Crown of Glory, (of which they never once heard,) and of the Grace of Faith in Christ, p. 156(of whom they never heard a report,) as Tantalus was of drinking the water, that did run by his lip; as the verse might have minded him, Tantalusà labris sitiens fugientia captat—pocula—If not, is the man so transported with passion, that he seeth not his palpable impertinency? (4.) we see then, that according to his Opinion, the works of Creation, and Providence, are as effectual meanes to save the Heathen, as the Gospel is to save such as hear it; and by these may Heathens come as soon to glory, as such as live under the Gospel by it: why then came Christ into the world? Was it that the works of Creation and Providence might become preachers of the Gospel and of Salvation? but we will possibly hear more of this afterward. He addeth, that we say the preaching of the Gospel, the use of sacraments, prayers &c. suffice to condemne Reprobats, that live within the visible church, and that they are all ineffectual unto them by reason of a secret impotency, which they had from their infancy &c. Ans. (1.) Here still more Pelagianisme; for he would say, that all within the visible Church are borne able to beleeve the Gospel, and do duties required therein (2.) That the peaching of the Gospel is to many the favoure of death, we are told by Paul 2. Cor. 2:16. and that it tendeth to the aggravation of their guilt, and condemnation, we heard lately out of Christ's owne mouth (3.) Is he angry with us, because we will not say, that every mothers son, that heareth the Gospel, can beleeve and obey the same, without the grace of God; or because we will not say, that Christ hath given sufficient grace to all that heare the Gospel, to Believe and Obey? Let him be angry with the Scriptures, if he dar; for we speak according to them, that …els us, all men have not faith 2 Thes. 3:2. and …hat faith is of God's elect. Tit. 1:1. and that no man can come unto the Son, but whom the Father draweth Ioh 6:44. That many beleev not, because they are not of Christ's sheep Ioh. 10:26. That there is a necessity of regeneration Ioh. 3:3, 5, 6. and that the carnal minde is enmity against God, f…r it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be Rom. 8:7. And many moe such things; see Ioh. 12:39. Act. 13:48. & 28:24, 25, 26, 27. Mat. 13:11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. Rom. 11:7, 8, 9. (4.) As for his making the case of the wicked, that hear the Gospel, the same with Tantalus's, we shall only tell him, that if he can prove, that any Reprobat hath as great, and vehement a desire unto salvation by Christ, as it is offered in the Gospel, as Tantalus had to drink, and yet it is denyed unto them, meerly upon the account of their being Reprobate; then his comparison is apposite; But if that be an untruth, as it is, his argueing from Tantalus's case, is a mere forged calumny. We openly declare, according to the tenor of the Gospel, that he who is a thirst, may come and drink of the water of life freely Revel. 22: vers. 17. Esai. 55: vers. 1, 2, 3. Mat. 11. vers 28. Ioh. 7: vers 37.

26. Thus we have examined all, which this Man hath thought fit to cull out of the writings of Pelagians and Arminians, and present his Reader with, for no other end, but to render the Truth we owne, odious; for neither doth he tell us his owne Judgment, concerning this; nor would he on…e consider what grounds we walk upon, or speak one word to the passages of Scripture, upon which we ground our Opinion; Thought he that his Readers would not be in case to take notice of his fraudulent and unfaithful dealing? It is well, that he p. 157hath written this in latine, for the world is no stranger unto the debates betwixt the Orthodox on the one hand, and Pelagians, Socinians, Arminians, and Iesuites, on the other; But we proceed unto the examination of his following Thesis.