Quakerism the Path-Way to Paganism, Chapter 14

Quakerism the Path-Way to Paganism · Chapter 14

p. 325CHAP. XIV. Of Perfection, and a Possibility of not sinning.

1. WE heard, toward the end of the preceeding Chapter, how he pleaded for the Perfection of the Saints, and of the work of grace in them. Here in his S. Thesis, and its explication, he giveth us his minde more fully. In his Thesis he saith, That this holy and immaculate birth, when it is fully produced in any, the body of sin and death is crucified and tak…n away, and their hearts become subject unto and united with the truth, so that they obey no suggestions, or temptations of Satan, and are freed from actual sin, and transgressing of the Law; and in that respect they are perfect. But yet this perfection admitteth of an increase; and there remaineth alwayes, in some respect, a possibility of sinning, if the minde doth not diligently and vigilantly attend unto God. And so high and confident is he, in this mater, that he accounts the answere given to the 149. Question, in our Larger Cathechisme, Impious, and spoken against the power of divine grace; because it is there said, No man is able, either of himself (Iam. 3:2. Ioh. 15:5. Rom. 8:3.) or by any grace received in this life, perfectly to keep the commandements of God Eccles. 7:20. 1 Ioh. 1:8, 10. Gal. 5▪ 17. Rom. 7:18:19.) but doth dayly break them in thought (Gen. 6:5 & 8:11.) word and deed (Rom. 3:9. to 21. Iam. 3:3, to 13.) But whatever he thinketh, we are not ashamed of this Answere, nor of what is said Conf. of Faith Ch. 16. § 5. towards the end, That our best works, as they are wrought by us, are defiled, and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection, that they cannot endure the severity of God's judgment, (Esa. 64:6. Gal. 5:17. Rom. 7:15, 18. Psal. 130:3. & 143:2. And ibid. §. 4. They, who in their obedience attaine to the greatest hight, which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more, than God requires, as that they fall short in much, which in duty they are bound to do, Luk. 17:10. Neh. 13 22. Iob 9:2, 3. Gal. 5:17. Nor yet of what is said Chap. 13. § 2. This Sanctification is throughout in the whole man, yet imperfect in this life; there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part (1 Ioh. 1: vers. 10. Rom. 7: vers. 18, 23. Phil. 3: vers. 12.) whence ariseth a continual and irreconcileable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, Gal. 5:17. 1 Pet. 2:11.

2. This Perfection is commonly maintained by them all. Mr Hicks in his 1. Dial. Pag. 50. tels us, that they hold a perfect freedome from all sin, in this life: saying too, Alas for thee! where wouldest thou be perf…ctly free from sin, if not in this lift? Mr Stalham also in his book against them Pag. 138 &c. manifesteth it by their p. 326owne words and arguments. And though it may be matter of amazement to some, to hear men speak so, who of all others, one would think, have least cause to preach this doctrine, without a publick declaration withal, that they are not the men, who are thus Perfect; and consequently according to their owne doctrine are not Christians, upon the account that he shall not ordinarily meet with, in any hereticks writings, so much Ignorance, Boldness, Foolish Confidence, Abusing of Scripture, Untruth, Heresie, Blasphemy, Reproaching, Revileing, Calumnies, Scolding, &c. As is every where to be found in theirs. Yet, when we consider what blasphemous grounds they lay downe, we shall see, that it is a native consequence of their doctrine. For Mr Hicks in his 2. Dialog. showeth us, that Edw. Burroughs calleth Sanctification, Christ himself; and hence concludeth, that to say Sanctification is imperfect, is as much as to say, Christ is imperfect: But Christ is perfect, therefore Sanctification is perfect. And againe. The Law in the minde is the Spirit of God: To say the Law in the minde is imperfect, is errour in the highest degree, this is an abominable corrupt principle of errour: the new man is perfect Peace, and perfect Sanctification. And Mr Clapham in his book against them Sect. 4. affirmeth out of a book called Saul's errand to Damascus that they maintaine themselves to be equal with God; And that Hubberthorn in his book against Sherlock Pag. 30. doth alleige that place Phil. 2:5, 6. to confirme it.

3. It might also seem strange, to hear men asserting their own Perfection, who pretend so much to spiritual inward experiences, and to so much acquantance with their owne hearts; for who, that will not wilfully put out their own eyes, may not see, and be assured of the deceitfulness of their heart above all things, & finde corruption riseing up on all occasions, and setting forward to sin, or hindering from good: But when persons are given up of God to strong delusions, as a punishment of their Pride and Vanity, what high thoughts may they not have of themselvespunc; seing such a doolful state is attended with more pride, puffing them up, and that blinding their eyes, that they cannot see their spots, nor see what the Law of God requireth; and all this attended with ignorance of God, and of his holy and Spiritual Law and worshipe? And it may be this man supposeth, with some Papists, that venial faults, as they call them, are not against the Law of God; or that command, which they violat, is not properly a command of the Law.

4. What the truth is, in this matter, is declared above, out of our Confession & Catechisme: and the passages of Scripture, which are there cited to confirme the truth, may be there seen and considered: But before I speak any thing more for clearing of the Truth, in this particular, I would have the Reader take notice of one thing: To wit, That it cannot but be a stupenduous and astonishing thing, and a manifest demonstration of the dreadful power of delusion, when the Lord giveth up any unto that Spirit, to hear men, who pretend to Reason, and to Religion, and have not yet openly renunced all Faith of a God, and all natural and humane Reason, talke at this rate, upon such grounds; and assert, with such boldness and confidence, a Perfection of Degrees, or a possibility of not sinning, attaineable, upon the principles and grounds, which they lay downe: what these are, we have, on several occasions, hinted, p. 327& now shall do it yet once more: The first rise and beginning of all their Religion and Perfection, is a Light within every man, which serveth both for an Internal light, & for an Objective Light; so that it is, in their account, both Grace & the Bible, & serveth instead of both: To this they give big names, & no less name give they to it, then Christ, or the seed of Christ, and they call it saving, yea and sufficient to salvation; hence is it, that they alwayes presse people, to look and hearken to the Light within, as if they needed no other Teacher, nor Bible; This is the theam and subject of their preaching. Now this Light, that is within every man, can be no saife, saving nor sufficient light, it hath no affinity with the grace of Illumination, being nothing but that natural Light of a Natural Conscience, which is truely natural, being planted in man, in his very creation, and abideing yet after the fall, in some measure, in all men; and flowing from the principles of nature, giving testimony of and assent to, in a greater or lesser measure, according as it is more or lesse freed from prejudices, prevailing wickednesses, corrupt education, and the like) maximes or principles of moral duties, according to the Law of nature. What natural Aptitude or rather how great an Ineptitude is and must be▪ in this natural light, now through the fall so much weakened, to understand and discover the saving truthes of the Gospel, which are not written in the book of nature, but are a mystery revealed by degrees, according to the good pleasure of God, who may not see? Especially considering, how since the fall, the minde and all the powers of the soul, and whole man, are stated enemies to God and his grace, and will not submit to, nor beleeve, his very Revelations, so often inculcated; nor indeed can they understand them, or submit unto them, until the mighty power of God be exerted, in working a change, in minde, will and affections: And yet, though these things be certain, attested both by the Word and by Experience, in all ages; behold, this generation of Quakers will cry up this Light as saving, and sufficient, though it never came from the grace of God, in a Mediator, nor was never promised in the Covenant of grace; but is, as the soile it groweth in, Flesh, Blindness, Enmity to God, Natural and Sensual, savouring nothing but the things of the Flesh and of Nature. This is the first ground stone of their building. The next is this, When the motions dictats and workings of this Light are yeelded unto, then doth that same Light become a new birth, Christ formed within, and what not? And thus the man, is a Regenerated man, a New creature, Partaker of the divine nature, Spiritual, Sanctified and Justified, Effectually called, Adopted, and what not? Though not one ray of divine Illumination hath shined into his soul, nor one act of grace hath reatched either his Intellect; Will or Affections, to cause this change: Nay, though he hath had no touch of assistance from the Spirit of God, to draw or move him hereunto: Nay more, though he hath never heard, whether there was a Christ and a Spirit, or not; and whether there was a Covenant of Grace, or not; or what are the termes thereof; and thus the man is borne againe, not of watter, not of the word, nor yet of the Spirit; but of this Light, and of his owne will; that is, of the Will of the Flesh, of the Will of Man, and not of God. Upon these two pillars, do they raise p. 328this high toure of Perfection: And now, let the Christian Reader judge, if this can be any thing else, tha… a Pagan Perfection: Or if this Perfection of theirs have any the least affinity with the smallest measure of true Christianity.

5. Though this might be enough to satisfie all true Christians, concerning the Wickedness and Vnreasonableness of this Assertion of theirs, upon their grounds and principles yet, that we may give some light in this matter, and helpe others to answere their cavils, and to discover their cheatrie; We shall propose a few things to consideration. As first. The Hebrew word, which is sometimes rendered Perfect, foreign & foreign signifieth an Honest, Plaine, and Simple Disposition, without guile or wickedness; and therefore is sometimes rendered simplicity or integrity, as Gen. 20:5, 6. 2 Sam. 15:11. 1 King. 22:34. see the magine; answereable to what is imported by the greek foreign and in this sense, we finde the word frequently taken, as denoting Uprightness, Sincerity, Singleness, as Gen. 6:9. & 17:1. Deut 18: vers: 13. Iob. 9:22:2. Sam. 22:33. Psal. 18▪ 32, & 64:4.119:1. And so it donoteth a truely godlyman, who is no hypocrite, nor dissembler; but is serving God in sincerity, truth and uprightness of heart; and this same is imported by that expression of a Perfect heart Psal. 101:2. So the other hebrew word usually joyned with heart foreign, as we see 1 King. 8:61 & 15:15 2 Chron. 15:17. 2 King. 20. 3: Esa. 36:3:1 Chron. 12:38. & 2…:9. & 29.9, 19. 2 Chron. 16:9. & 19:9. and rendered by us a perfect heart, hath the same import; for it properly signifieth Peace, Prosperity, Saifty, & Integrity; so that this, perfect heart, is an heart satisfied, quiet and at peace with it self, in doing this, or that; So the greek word foreign is observed to have the same import with the hebrew foreign, and to donote an Upright, Sincere, not Dissembling person; for it is used by the 70. Deut. 18:13. and it oft signifieth, one come to age, or no more a childe, but come to just maturity. Heb. 5:14. And it may denote also one Devoted, Initiated in holy things, and consecrated, as the verb it cometh from, signifieth to consecrate as Heb. 2:10. & 10:14. & 11:40. and to be Immolated, or Offered up in sacrifice Luk. 13:32. see Exod. 29:33, 35. as translated by the 70. and D. Own on Heb. 2:10: And Pareus in Rom. 3. tels us, that foreign doth most frequently signifie Sincerity.

6. But leaving these things, let us in the next place consider, how and in what respects, Beleevers may be called perfect, or perfection may be ascribed unto them. And (1.) They may be called Perfect, as being Initia…ed in the holy things of God, as devoted to his service, and Consecrate to him, and Sanctified by the holy Spirit: And why it may not be so taken frequently in Pauls Epistles, I see not, saith D. Owen de ortu &c verae Theologiae Pag. 8. See also Heb. 10:14. and Calv. on the place. (2.) They may be called Perfect, as being Tru…ly, and Really what they profess themselves to be, that is, Christians, and not Dissemblers, Hypocrites, and Made persons. So the word is used 1 Ioh. 2:5. But who so keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected, that is, in him is the love of God truely, and really, and not feignedly, or by mere profession. See Beza on the place: As also 1 Ioh. 4:12. where p. 329the word hath the same import: And the ground is clear, because, obedience to God's command must flow from love, and love to God and our neighbours, is the summe of all the commands: Hence love is the fulfilling of the Law, Rom. 13:10. So Iames 3:2. the same is a perfect man, who showeth, by bridling his tongue, that he offends not in word, that he is a real Christian: For the Apostle is here, in the first verse, meaning men, like our Quakers, of a supercilious spirit, masterly, quarreling with, and superciliously inveighing against all, though it be a certain truth that we offend all in many things: And therefore he saith to such, that if they would shew themselves good and excellent Christians, who are so ready, to be masters in their reprehensions of others, they would first bridle their owne tongues. I wish Quakers would learne this. See Calv. on the place. (3.) They may be called Perfect, in regard of the Uprightness, Sincerity, Honesty, godly Simplicity, and Singleness, that is in their way: thus the word frequently signifieth, as we saw above, and is rendered b… the Dutch, and in the margine of our Bibles, Vpright, Gen. 6:9. & 17:1 Deut. 18:13. Iob 2:3. and in several places it is rendered so in the text, Ps. 18:23, 25. 2 Sam. 22: vers. 24, 26. Iob 1: vers. 1:8. & 12:4. Psal. 19: v. 13. & 37:18, 37, and elsewhere. Hence oft, Perfect and upright, are joined together as Iob 1:1, 8. & 2:2. (4) They may be and are called Perfect, in regaird of Perfection of Parts, as being compleet, and wanting nothing of the integral parts of Christianity; thus a childe may be called a perfect man, as having all the Essential and Integral parts of a man, though but in their infant and tender grouth. The saints are thus perfect, as having the Spirit, and thereby the seeds and beginnings of all grace. In regeneration, the whole man is changed; so that he is new borne, a new creature, sanctified wholly, in Minde, Heart, Spirit, Affections, Conscience, Memory and Body, though but in a small degree and measure. See 1 Thes. 5:23. (5.) They may be called Perfect, because Respecting all the commands of God, Ps. 119:6. and yeelding impartial obedience, through the grace of God, unto all God's precepts, waving none. (6.) In that their good works have all the Essential Parts requisite, as proceeding from a right principle, done for a right end, &c. though not in the degree called for by the Law. (7.) They may be called Perfect, in regard, that the state, whereinto they are, is a state, that certainly tendeth to perfection; they are advancing thereunto, and shall certainly reach that top of perfection in end, which they look for, and strive to attaine, Ephes. 4:13. Phil, 3:15. For as the several lusts of the body of death are more & more weakened and mortified dayly; so they are more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, Rom. 6:6, 14. Gal. 5:14. Rom. 8:13. Ephes. 3:16, 17, 18, 19. And so are perfecting holiness in the fear of God, 2 Cor. 7:1. and advanceing Phil. 3:12, 13, 14. (8.) They may be called Perfect Comparatively, in respect of others, who are yet lying in nature: And they may be so called, in comparison of what sometimes they were themselves, while Blinde, Ignorant, Dead and Lifeless, lying in the state of nature, which is indeed a fearful state of imperfection, misery and woe. (9.) So in respect of young believers, weak in knowledge, and babes in Christ, Others, who are further avanced, may be, and are called p. 330Perfect, as having attained an higher degree, and measure of grouth in grace. Thus Beza thinketh the word is taken, Phil. 3:15. 1 Cor. 2:6. And it is clearly so taken, 1 Cor. 14:20. Heb. 5:14. Ephes. 4:13. where each hath his owne stature, according to the measure of the gift of Christ, vers. 7. Rom. 12:3, 6. and its meaning and import we may see, 1 Cor. 3:1. where such an one is only called spiritual, & 1 Cor. 13:11. where such is called a man. (10.) Why may they not also be called perfect, in regard of Justification; seing the Righteousness wherewith they are cloathed, & which is imputed unto them; upon the account of which th…y are justified, is a Perfect Righteousness, being the Rghteousness of Jesus Christ; And seing the sentence pronunced upon them, to wit, of Absolution, in their Justification, shall never be recalled, & they brought againe into Condemnation, Rom 8:1. As also seing the state they are brought into thereby, is an unchangeable state, so that once in a justified state, alwayes in a justified state?

7. But all this will not satisfie our Quakers; who (with Familists, Antinomians, and Libertines, will have this to be the privilege of all Christians, after their Mode, that they be as Perfect, as Adam was in the state of innocency, free of all sin, and from yeelding to Temptation, or Corruption; and this taketh-in much, if not a Perfection of parts and degrees: Now to assert this Perfection, which even Papists are ashamed of; and to assert this, as common to all them, in whom this new birth is fully produced, as it must be in all Justified and Sanctified Persons, according to his owne principles, is false and dangerous. For (1.) There are in Christ's house diverse syzes, and degrees of persons, some babes 1 Cor. 3:1. Heb. 5:13. or children, or little children, 1 Ioh. 2:12, 13. and others young men, and old men, or Fathers 1 Ioh. 2:13, 14. (2.) Christians are exhorted to grow in grace, and in the knowledge of Iesus Christ, 2 Pet. 3. last: and to put off the old man, which is corrupt, according to deceitful lusts, and to put on the new man, Epes. 4:22, 23, 24. And to mortifie their members, which are upon the earth, Col. 3:5. But to cry up this perfection, is to render all Gospel comman…s useless, whereof we have abundance in the Epistles. (3.) This takes away the exercise of Repentance; for where there is no sin, there can be no sense of, nor sorrow for sin; and the exercise of Faith, in running to the fountain for washing; and the exercise of Prayer, in seeking grace to withstand Temptations, to strive against Corruption; & in seeking for pardon, in the bloud of Christ. And (4.) So this maketh these petitions in the Lords prayer useless, forgive us our sins, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. (5.) This saith that either beleevers are fully freed from an indwelling body of death; contrary to Rom. 7:11, 17, 18, 23, 24. or that the motions of this body of death are not sin, or sinful; contrary to Rom. 7:5, 7, 8, 15. Gal. 5: v. 17. Iam. 1: ver. 14, 15. (6) This tendeth to foment Pride, and Security; and to shake off Diligence, Watchfulness, holy Fear, Humility; contrare to Iam. 4:10. 1 Pet. 5, 6, 7, 8. Mat. 18:4. & 23:12. Micah. 6:8. Col. 3:12. 1 Cor. 16:13. 1 Thes. 5: vers. 6. 1 Pet. 4:7. Mat. 24:42. & 25:13 & 26:41. Mark. 13:33, 35, 37. & 14:38. Luk. 21:36. Act. 20:31. Col. 4:2. 2 Pet. 3:14. & 1:5. Heb. 6:11. & 12:15. Tit. 3:8. (7.) This taketh away the usefulness of the Ordinances of Christ; such as Reading the Scriptures, Preaching, and Sacraments, which are instituted p. 331for the edification and building up of the Church; as also the Ministerie: Hence we …nde these Quakers proud and vaine boasters, crying downe all these Ordinances, as now useless; as we shall hear more afterward. (8.) This makes all the commands to endeavour after perfection useless, as to Christians; contrare to Heb. 13:21. 2 Cor. 13:11. Mat. 5:48. 2 Cor. 7:1. Heb. 6:1. All Prayers for it useless, contrare to 1 Pet. 5:10. And so cutteth off all Endeavours after it: For what a man hath already, he doth not earnestly seek. (9.) See Psal. 130:3. & 143:2. Iob 9:2. Psal. 19:13. Iam. 3: ver. 2. 1 Ioh. 1:8. as also Prov. 20:9. who can say, I have made my heart cleane? I am pure from my sin? But this Quaker will contradict this. Eccles. 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doth good and sinneth not: The Quakers will contradict this too; and that also, which this same wise King saith, 1 King. 8:46. & 2 Chron. 6:36. For there is no man that sinneth not.

8. Enough, by way of proof, of the vanity and falshood of this fonde conceite of these proud Phanaticks, which the experience of saints, in all ages, hath confuted, and all tender Christians will abhore; and was never owned but by Phanatick hereticks, such as of old were the Cathari, followers of Novatus, who was excommunicated for his errours, by a Synod at Rome. See Eusebii histor. lib. 6. c. 42. Pelagians, (as we shall shew) and Donatists, some Anabaptists, Antinomians, Familists, and the like of late, with Socinians, (of whom afterward) Arminians, and the Papists, who owne it to set off the better their other corrupt doctrines, & lay their ground for works of supererogation, though some of them, as Stapleton and others, must yeeld to the truth which the Orthodox own and maintaine. Let us now come and see, what this man saith for explication and defence of this untru…h. He layes downe five Positions, for clearing of the Controversie Pag. 153. The first is this, we place not (saith he) this possibility (to wit of not sinning) in mans owne will and capacity, as he is a son of Adam, or as in a natural state, & Ans. But what if his Perfectionist be never translated out of the state of nature? And sure, according to his doctrine, we cannot see, how such can be said to be translated from darkness to light: For the Scripture tels us, that that cannot be, without the infusion of new habites, and faith in Jesus Christ; and also that this cannot be without the powerful operation of God's Spirit, on Minde, Will and Affections, discovering to them their Sin and Misery, and the Necessity of Christ, and Christ's Fulness, Sutableness, and Readiness to help; As also Perswading, Bowing, Inclineing, and Determineing the Will unto an Acceptance of and Closeing with Christ, for union and communion: And therefore if such be capable of this Perfection, who are strangers to this work, it riseth only from the Will of corrupt man, & is founded on meer Nature. But what sayes he next? We ascribe it wholly unto man, (sayes he) as he is renewed by Christ, whom he knoweth to be reigning in him, and leading by his Spirit, and revealing within the Law of the Spirit of life, whereby power is obtained to be rid of sin. Ans. (1.) But we have not yet heard, that Renovation and Regeneration by Christ explained to us, according to the Gospel; but rather according to Pelagius, as was manifested several times above. (2) What is ascribed wholly unto man, even as renewed, is not ascribed immediatly to God, and p. 332to his grace. (3.) If it be ascribed to man as renewed, it must be ascribed to all renewed persons; and so is not a privilege of some, but is common to all Beleevers; and consequently none are beleevers, but such as are thus perfect: and so, no man that sinneth, or yeeldeth to temptations, is a regenerat man; and therefore David was not regenerated, when he fell with Bathsheba; Nor any man, that yeeldeth but to a sinful thought, or word. What shall then be said of Quakers, whose books are so full of Railings, Lies, Slanders, Errours and Blasphemies, beside their other practices? (4.) It is not true, that every renewed person knoweth alwayes, that Christ is reigning in him, and ruling him by his Spirit, &c. (5,) Though power be had from Christ, living and reigning in the soul, whereby sin is resisted, and striven against; Yet not in such a measure and degree, as the sou shall be fully freed from its lustings and oppositions, Gal. 5:17.

9. What is his third Position? By this perfection (saith he) we understand not that, which cannot receive dayly increase; neither that, which is as just and perfect as God is; but a proportionable perfection, answering the measure of every one, whereby they are keeped from sinning and strengthened for fulfilling the Law. Answ. (1,) If he understand not such an absolute perfection, he contradicteth other Quakers, as we heard above. (2.) Howbeit every renewed man hath not the same proportionable perfection, or perfection of degrees; yet every one hath that measure of degrees, that maketh him love God, with all his Heart, Minde, Soul, and Strength, and fulfil the whole Law, and do no sin, in Thought, Word, or Deed, in this Quakers judgment; and this belongeth even to Babes in Christ; as an Infant hath all the proportioned members of a man: and then it is clear, that no regenerated person can sin; and no man that sinneth, is regenerate. And so freedom from sin must be essential, or proprium quarto modo, unto the Regenerate. Give us an instance, in all the Scriptures, of such a Regenerate person? (3.) The Arminians speak of a perfection consistent with some small sinnes; but this Quaker excepteth not the least sin. The Arminians also speak of a perfection, that admitteth degrees Apol. Fol. 128. b.

10. What is his fourth Position? Albeit (saith he) some may attaine unto this freedome from sin, and all should endeavour after it; yet he who once getteth it may afterward loss it, through the temptations of Satan, unless he diligently attend to the Light within. Answ. (1.) These some, who may attaine to this, and should endeavour after it, are not among the renewed ones; for they all have it already: As we heard. (2.) If he afterward come to loss it, he loseth also his state of Regeneration; for to sin, were it but in a wrong thought, or in coming short in the least measure of the right manner of doing a duty, is inconsistent with regeneration, say our Quaker; and yet he saith within a line or two, that every sin doth not destroy a spiritual condition. These things cannot hang together; a person, wanting a leg, or an arme, cannot be called a perfect man, as to his integral parts; gold having drosse admixed, cannot be called pure.

11. His last Position is, That he will not affirme that such a state is not attaineable here, in which, to do righteousness becometh natural unto the regenerat soul, that in the stability of that state they cannot sin. Answ. This is an higher degree of Perfection, p. 333than what he mentioned before, for the former was such a state, in which one was able not to sin, though he might also sin, possit non peccare, Item & possit? But this is such, in which he cannot sin, peccare non possit. And as to this, he ingenuously confesseth, he himself hath not yet attained it, in which his modesty and ingenuity is commendable. But he dar not deny, but there may be such a state, seing it seemeth to be expresly affirmed by the Apostle 1 Ioh. 3:9. Answ. But if he so interpret the words of the Apostle Iohn, as importing this highest degree of perfection, he must also grant, that this highest perfection is not only attainable in this life; but that it is common to all renewed persons; for Iohn speaketh this as a truth of all, that are borne of God, and of all that have this seed in them; and this is true of all that are truely Regenerated; all such are borne of God, and Gods seed is in them. What will the man now say? Though he will say, that he is in such a state, wherein he is able not to sin, possit non peccare; yet if he dar not say, that he cannot sinne, non possit peccare, he must acknowledge himself not to be yet borne of God, and to be void of the seed of God. This passage, if it prove any thing for perfection, will utterly destroy this Quakers first kinde of Perfection, which is a possibility of not sinning, and that as common to all Regenerat persons: But neither the one nor the other is asserted hereby the Apostle; who only saith, that he that is borne of God cannot make a trade of sinne, and be wholly taken up therein, as his constant work and exercise, wherein he is delighted, and findeth pleasure and full satisfaction; as a man doth in his daily trade and employment. He doth not say, that such have no sin; for he had said the contrare Chap. 1:8. but that they do not foreign ▪ trade in sin, and this is opposite to that which is their trade and occupation 1 Ioh. 2:29,—they do, worke, or trade in righteousness foreign. This doing working, or tradeing in sin, is peculiar to such as are of the Devil, as the doing, working and tradeing in righteousness, is peculiar to Gods people 1 Ioh. 3:7, 8, 9. He that committeth sin is of the devil—whosoever is borne of God doth not commit sin: so that such as are borne of God do not commit sin, as do such as are of the Devil, and do the works of the Devil: And this committing of sin is opposed to the work of purifying, or studying of sanctification, which lively hope setteth the beleever upon vers. 3.4. and importeth a fixed set purpose and resolution, to work in sin, with full purpose of heart; and to give up themselves to the trade of sin, as delighting therein, and as devouted thereunto: adde, that such sinne not so as to fall away, and lose the seed, nor unto death. See Chap. 5:16, 17.

12. Thus we have seen his Opinion, which in short is this. That all the Regenerat are in such a state, as that they are able no… to sin, or transgress any of the commands of God; but to keep them in all points, and walk up to full conformity to the Law; yet they may also sin, through their own fault and unwatchfuln…ss; for it is not impossible: But some may come unto that hight of perfection, as that it is impossible for them to sin; they cannot sin. Let us now see, ere we examine his grounds, what affinity this opinion of his hath with the Old Pelagians, & with the late Socinians, and Others: as to the first, Vossius, his Historia Pelagiamsmi Lib. 5. Part. prior. Thesi prima Pag. 460. giveth us their p. 334opinion, thus, They said, the Saints led their life without sin; which they laboured to prove from the instances of those, who in Scripture are said to have keeped the Law perfectly: Yet they distinguished betwixt such, as never sinned all their dayes, and such as at first were sinners, but afterward left off to sin, The first they gave to Abel, the last unto Paul. See what he citeth to verifie this. He sets downe the Antithesis of the orthodox Pag. 462. thus, That none by the power of nature could fulfill the Law: That none by strength of grace, did live all their dayes without sin: That none attained that measure of holiness, in this life, that he could live any long time without sin. The perfection, ascribed to some in the Scripture, was not from nature, but from grace; Nor for all their dayes; Nor at any time full and absolute, but which might increase, and was mixed with evil deeds; and so, was a perfection of parts only, not of degrees. And this he cleareth out of Hierom, Iustin Martyr, Ambrose, Gennadius, Chrysost. Beda, Origen, Cyprian, Macarius, Optatus, Augustin Ivo Carnatens. Lombard. He tels us moreover Pag. 4…8. That unto these instances out of Scripture, urged by the P…lagians, They answered, that by perfection was meaned Sincerity, or a true, not feigned, study of obeying all God's Lawes; and actual obedience, according to the measure attained in this life, and in comparison with others▪ but not any full or absolute perfection: As an house is said to be perfect, which is yet but in building, in respect of the beginnings, by a synecdoche of parts; or of desire, by a metonymie of the end. 2. In comparison with rubbish, or with an house, not so far advanced. 3. In respect of promise, when the builder undertaketh to compleat it. And so the righteousness here was perfect. (1.) Inchoatively, in respect of the beginnings, and desires. (2.) Comparatively, in respect both of the ungodly, and of the godly, who are more imperfect. (3.) Evangelically, whereby all is said to be done, when that which was not done is pardoned. And this to have been the Judgment of the orthodox, he prove…h out of their writtings as of Hierom, Orosius, August Gelasius, Bernard. The Reader may see more in his 2. Antithesis Pag. 473. &c. out of Nazianzen, Tertullian, Optatus Millevit, Hierom, &c. For the better maintaining of this Perfection, the Pelagians said, that sinnes of ignorance were no sinnes, (I know not, whether our Quakers will homologate with them, as to this, or not) as the same Author sheweth ibid. Thes. 3. He sheweth also Thes. 4. how that at length, the Pelagians in disput were brought to speak only of a posse, and not of an esse; that is, that man might perfectly keep the Law, though they would not say, tha… th…y did keep it perfectly; and that he might easily keep the Law. And in the Antithesis Pag. 485. He tels us, that the orthodox answered, That if man could so easily keep the Law, some would be found, who had done so: And if none could be found beside Jesus Christ, God-man, who had done so, there was no ground for ascribeing so much power to man. At length (as the same person showeth Thesi 5.) Pelagius was driven to retract what he said of the facility of fulfilling the Law; And was content to say simply, …hat we could keep the Law. And because his making no mention of grace, gave offence; therefore, he helped the matter by saying, that by the Grace of God we could be without sin. But, as is clear in the Antithesis, this did not satisfie the Orthodox, because the word p. 335grace was but a cheat, for Pelagius put another meaning on it, than they did: and they maintained, that no saint did ever attaine to that measure of grace, as to live without sin; for that should take away the necessity of Christs death: and say, that Salvation might be by the Law; and further to say so, were to make themselves equal to Christ.

13. Thus we have seen; how this Man agreeth with these wicked Pelagians, The same Author Vossius Pag. 510, 511. tels us of some called Begardi and Beguinae, in Aleman or Germany, who maintained such a degree of Perfection as we could advance no higher; and were condemned by a Councel of moe than 300 Bishops conveened at Vienna: some of their opinions condemned were these- 1. That man, in this life, can acquire such a degree of perfection, that he shall become wholly impeccable; and cannot advance further in grace. 2. That a man attaining to this degree of perfection, needeth no more to fast and pray; because then Sensuality is so perfectly subject to the Spirit, and to Reason, that he may let his body do what he will. 3. That such, as have attained to this degree of Perfection, are no more obnoxious to mans Law; for where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 4. That man may be as happy, in this life, as in heaven. 6. That it is the part of an imperfect man, to exercise himself in acts of vertue. The 5, 7. & 8. article condemned in them we mention not, as being concerning other heads. Hence we see, what affinity our Quakers have with these Beguards & Beguines: Let us next see, how they agree with the Socinians.

14. As to the judgm…nt of the Socinians, in this point of Perfection, the learned D. Hoornbeek Socinianismi confut. Tom. 3. lib. 1. Cap. 3. Pag. 61. giveth us a short summe of it, which he fully thereafter cleareth out of their owne writtings. They distinguish betwixt an Absolute perfection, and Comparative: by That they understand immunity from all sin, and full conformity to the whole Law, by which a man never committeth the least sin: this they say, was peculiar to Christ. By this, comparative perfection, they understand a perfection either as to the habite, or as to the act: as to the habite, they say, it is that whereby some never all their life time, contracted the habite of any sin, and so needed not to repent thereof; and which all the regenerate partake of: as for perfection, as to the Act of sin, they think all the regenerate do not attaine it, but only such as attaine to the highest degree, which some may attaine unto, yea and it i… possible for all to attaine unto. Smalcius contra Frantzium disput 6. Pag. 176. not only admitteth degrees, in that perfection, which is called Comparative; but in that also, which is Absolute, The highest degree of which is peculiar to Christ, who never sinned; but an inferiour degree he yeeldeth to others, whereby they sinne no more, after they have attained unto it: As to the other perfection, which they call Comparative, they give us three degrees thereof; One of those, who, having shoken off the habite of sin, set about Obedience, but with much inward strugling of minde. The Other of those, who do this with less strugling. The third of those, who obey without any strugling at all, yea with great delight, joy and complacency, and so sinne no more. And Socinus himself praelect Cap. 26. Pag. 169. condemneth them, who say, that perfection, p. 336which the Cathari held necessary, is not attainable here, that is, who deny, that it can be, that any man can advance, so far in this life, as to sinne no more.

15. The same D. Hoornbeek ubi supra Pag. 64. sheweth us, that the Arminians, in their Apology Cap. 11. say, there are some, who do their duty without any inward battel, and with the highest of joy and chearfulness, and Cap. 17. We, by the grace of God, can do and fulfill all the commands of God. And that Episcopius Ad quaest: 19. said Man could perfectly do the commands. They will not grant, that all the regenerat, especially such as are in the second and third order (they give us three orders or degrees of Regenerat persons) have any ba…tel in them betwixt the Spirit and the flesh. See Apol. fol. 128. &c. It is true, the… say, that they speak so in respect of Evangelical Perfection, not of Legal; by this understanding a most absolute and full immunity from all sin, and that dureing a mans whole life; or all impeccability, and that for ever, which excludeth all imperfection, infirmity, and inadvertancy; and this they think morally impossible: But as to the Other, which they say hath its degrees, they grant the highest degree thereof may be attained, consisting in a doing of the commanded duty, in a most perfect manner, so far as is required, by the Gospel and covenant of grace But as D. Hoornbeek well observeth all perfection is in respect of works, and can no other way be judged, than by the Law, which commandeth them; And if that be called Evangelical Perfection, which admitteth of defects and imperfections, it is no perfection to all, but only catachrestically so called: What agreement our Quakers have with these Men, the sequel will evince.

16. We are commanded, even in the Gospel (which doth not destroy the Law, nor weaken its obligation; for Christ came not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it) to love God with all our heart, with all our soul, strength and minde: and this, sure, taketh in the highest degree and intension of love, and what is short of this, is, in so far, defective; and therefore imperfect. I cannot assent to that, which D. Baron saith, in his Disp. de peccato Mortali & Veniali part. 1. sect. 4. §. 6. to wit, That the Gospel doth not strickly and precisely oblige to perfection in degrees; but only to an Endeavour after this perfection; for then we were under no obligation to repent of, and ask pardon of our shortcomings, in the name of Christ, nor to run for cleansing, by faith unto the fountaine of Christ's blood; and this neither can tender Christians assent to, nor will their practice comply therewith.

17. I think, a serious pondering of these Rules, for the right understanding of the commands, set downe in our greater Chatechisme quaest. 99. might make all, who knew themselves, sober in this matter. Who dar plead for this Perfection, who beleeveth, That the Law of God is perfect, and bindeth every one to full conformity, in the whole man, unto the righteousness thereof and unto entire Obedience for ever, so as to require the utmost perfection of every duty, and to forbid the least degree of every sin Psal. 19:7. Iam. 2:10▪ Mat. 5:21. to the end. That it is Spiritual, and so reacheth the Understanding▪ Will, Affections, and all other Powers of the soul, as well as Words, Works and Gestures Rom. 7:14. Deut. 6:5. with Mat. 22:37, 38, 39. Mat. 5 21, 22 p. 33727, 28, 36. That where a duty is commanded, the contrary sin is forbidden Esai. 58:13. Deut. 6:13. with Mat. 4:9, 10. Mat. 15:4, 5, 6. And where a sin is forbidden, the contrary duty is commanded Mat. 1:21, 22, 23, 24, 25. Ephes. 4:28. That what God forbids, is at no time to be done Iob 13:7, 8. Rom. 3:8. Iob 36:21. Heb. 11:29. That under one sin, or duty, all of the same kinde are forbidden, or commanded, together with all the Causes, Meanes▪ Occasions, and Appearances thereof, and Provocations thereunto Mat. 5:21, 22, 27, 28. & 15:4, 5, 6. Heb. 10:24, 25. 1 Thes. 5:12. Iud. vers. 23. Gal. 5:26. Col. 3:24. That what is forbidden or commanded to ourselves, we are bound, according to our places, to endeavour that it may be avoided or performed by others, according to the duty of their places Exod. 20:10. Levit. 19:11. Gen. 18:19. Iosh. 24:15. Deut. 6:6, 7. That in what is commanded to others, we are bound, according to our places and callings, to be helpfull to them: And to take heed of partaking with others, in what is forbidden them 2 Cor. 1:24. 1 Tim. 5:19. Ephes. 5:11. Who, I say, that rightly considereth these particulars; and how the Law requireth, That obedience should be performed thereunto, in the most high and intense degree, without the least remissness of zeal, and fervour; That the manner of our obedience be spiritual, from a right principle, to a right end, in an heavenly & spiritual manner: that it may done in the Spirit Gal 5:16. 1 Cor. 14:14, 15, 16. And that there be no corrupt Motion, Affection, or Inclination to evil; no tickling of delight in the thing, nor any discontent, at our restraint from the evil, even though our formal assent be not given thereto. So that the very involuntary motions of the minde to evil, though not assented to, are prohibited, as being against the holy Law, and as flowing from a corrupt fountaine; Yea and the very in-being of that body of death, which is the spring of evil motions: He, I say, will in sobriety speak of a perfection attainable here. But the only remedy here is to curtail the Law, that seing they cannot conforme to it, it may conforme to them, as did the Pharisees of old: whence it is usual for such perfectionists, to call the motions of Lust and Concupiscence within, no sin; & to plead for venial sinnes, and to give us a grosse exposition of the Law, and of the duties therein enjoyned. One might wonder, that these forementioned should be for perfection, who of all persons, would seem to have least ground: But the cause is; They are all devoted to the exaltation of Free will, and enemies to the grace of God; and know no other holiness, but what Free Will hath a chiefe hand in, & whereof they are whole masters.

18. Now we come to examine what he saith against our judgment, which is. That in the best of our actions, which we here do, there is some admixture of sin & corruption; and none of them so perfect, as to abide the strick examination of divine justice: For his representation of our opinion, That the saints neither can be, nor ever shall be delivered from sin, in this life; And that the Saints are under a perpetual necessity of sinning, is ambiguous and very indistinct, as might be showne, if it were worth the paines. His first Reason is. That it is contrary to the wisdome, glorious vertue, and majesty of God, who is of purer eyes, then he can behold iniquity. Ans. Is it against these attributes of God, that sin should be in the world? Then we must say, by this argument, that all wicked men are p. 338P…rfect and sinless: Yea that the devils are perfect; for the pure eyes of God can not behold iniquity in wicked men, (of whom these words are spoken by Habbakuk) no, nor in devils: or is it only against these attributes, that any remnant of corruption or sin should be in the Godly? then, this will prove the last Perfection, to wit, an impossibility to sin, to be common to all the godly, which yet he dust not say, and not only the first perfection viz. a possibility of not sinning. Let us see, if what he addeth can make him any reliefe. S…ing (saith he) God would gather a people to himself, to worship him, & be his witneses on earth, without all doubt, he sanctifieth & purifyeth them. Ans. True, he sanctifieth & purifieth them by degrees, till He bring them to the full perfection, he hath appointed for them in glory; but himself will not say, that he sanctifieth them, alwayes in the hi…hest degree, and that as soon, as they are Regenerated. Is there no sanctification, but that which is perfect? or is there no sanctification, where there is the least sin? Then he must say, that all the saints are as holy, and as free of sin here, as they will be in heaven; then he must goe higher, then ever Pelagians, Socinians, Papists, or Arminians went; and must joyn himself to the old Beguards and Beguines. We grant with him, That God delighteth not in iniquity, but abhorreth all sin; and that he delighteth not in man, as he joyneth to sin. Yet he delighteth in man, as joyned unto Christ, and as turning from sin by Repentance, and as fighting the battels of the Lord against the body of death within, and as delighting in the Law of the Lord, after the inner man: And (sayes he) if man were alwayes to be joyned unto sin; he should be alwayes disjoyned from God, according to Esai. 59:2. But on the contrary, they are partakers of the divine nature 2 Pet. 1:4. and are one Spirit with him 1 Cor. 6:17. But what is impure cannot be so, for there is no agreement betwixt light and darkness 2 Cor. 6:14. Now God is Light, and all sin is darkness. Answ. (1.) All this would plead for a sinlesness, from the very first instant of Regeneration, Yea and for the highest degree of Perfection. (2.) Though corruption abideth, in the Regenerated man, as a vanquished enemy, strugling in the dead thrawes; yet is not the Regenerated man joyned thereto, but separated therefrom, in Minde, Will and Affections, in so far as regenerated; and is fighting and lusting against it, as his greatest enemy. (3) It is sin delighted in, and unrepented of, loved and intertained in the soul, that separateth betwixt God and the soul: and that text Esai. 59:2. speaketh of soul-wasting and land-destroying sinnes, to which that people had given up themselves, and would not turne from; as we see vers. 3, 4▪ 5, 6, 7, 8, 12, 13, 14, 15. And yet we see there vers. 16, 17. What soveraignity of free grace can do to, and for such a people, for the glory of his name. (4.) What is impure, as impure, cannot be one Spirit with Christ: But beleevers are reckoned, according to what hath now the throne, and the heart, and the dominion in the soul, with their free and sanctified consent; for now they are maried to a new Husband, and are engadged in warfare under a new Captaine, They are dead unto sin, but alive unto God, through Jesus Christ our Lord; & therefore they are under an obligation to strive against all that would labour to set sin againe upon the throne, & wrong the interest of their new Lord & Soveraigne. Rom. 6:11, 12, 13. And though they be risen with: Christ, and are dead, p. 339& have their life hid with Christ in God; Yet they have members to mortifie uppon earth, Fornication, Uncleanness &c. Col. 3:2, 3, 5. (5.) God hath no f…llowshipe with corruption, more then light can have fellowshipe with darkness, yet he can have fellowshipe, with his owne work of grace in the soul, and with the soul, as sanctified, and renewed.

19. But sayes he further, Is it not against the wisdom of God to say He could finde no other methode, whereby he should be served, than by such actions, by which the devil is no lesse, yea more, served; for he that sinneth is the servant of sin? Rom. 6:16. Ans. It is not fit for man to stand up, and disput wickedly for God: and under a shew of zeal for and patronage of his Wisdome, condemne the same: His folly is wiser than our wisdome. What methods God could have found out, whereby He might have been served by men, what proud man will take upon him to determine? The methode he hath chosen should satisfie us. But to the matter, when God's people are serving Him, with some measure of sincerity and uprightness of heart; howbeit the devil opposeth, and by his temptations and the co-working of corruption, prevaileth much, to hold back, or to cause the soul move slowly; Yet, the heart, and the renewed part of the man, being for God, and for God only, and directly against Satan and all his wayes, doings and designes, there is no formal service performed unto Sa…an; for the Lord regardeth the heart: And though oft times there be more corruption in the work, than grace; Yet, the heart being upright in the main, the denomination is from the better part: And albeit, how more sin be in the action, that is gone about, by the honest Beleever, in weakness, Satan be the glader; Yet in that, the beleever cannot be called his servant: For the Apostle, in the place cited, saith not, he that sinneth, but he that yeeldeth himself up as a servan…, to obey sin, is the servant of sin. No doubt, if the Lord had seen it for his glory, he could have so ordered it, that his children, from the day of their new birth, should never have sinned more; but He hath thought it good, that they should be exercised with a spiritual warfare, all their dayes, against Satan and a wicked world, without; and a body of death, and its members, within; that his power might be made perfect in their weakness; that they might live by Faith, and get continual proofs of God's Power, Love, Care, Faithfulness, Grace, Mercy and Tenderness; that they might daily have use of the blood of Christ, to wash in; and so exercise Humility, Godly sorrow, Repentance, Faith, Patience, Submission, Watchfulness, Diligence; and might groan under the body of death: that they might see, through daily experience, the riches and worth of their Redemption, and read their great Obligations to their Lord Ransomer, and Soveraigne King. And if we were sober, we might here mark wonderful wisdome, and see a piece of the manifold wisdome of God. But when we be come distracted, (as doubtless we are, when we will be wise above what is written) no wonder we become blinde, and speak as fools: as this man doth here, and in the following words, which I shall not so much as honour with a transcribing.

20. He sayes, our doctrine is repugnant to the justice of God, requireing them to abstaine from all sin, and not enabling them hereunto; and requireing more then he giveth ability to do. Ans. (1.) The man runneth so hard, that he runneth himself p. 340blinde: Seeth he not, that if this argument prove any thing, it will prove that all the wicked world are perfect, for God requireth of them obedience to his Law: and it may be a question, if hence it may not likewise be proven, that the damned, and the Devils, are all perfect, and without sin; seing it may be a doubt, if they be loosed from the Law of their Creation. But (2.) Though it were granted they had power, I mean moral power, for no other can be here understood, yet this will not prove their perfection, or freedom from sin: many may have power, and yet not use it: Adam had power to resist Satans suggestion, yet did it not. His perfect ones may grow slack in their watch, and so sin, though he will grant they have power to do otherwise. (3) This is old Pelagius's argument, as V…ssius cleareth to us, Hist. Pelag. lib. 5. part. 1. Thes. 6. where among other evidences, he citeth Hieron. adv. Pelag. bringing-in Critobolus, as a Pelagian, reasoning thus. Either God gave commandements that were possible, or that were impossible: if possible, it is in our power to do them, if we will; if impossible, we are not guilty, if we do them not, seing we cannot. And thus, whether the Lords command be possible, or Impossible, man may be without sin, if he will: Our Quaker is yet worse; for the Pelagian would hence prove but a possibility of Perfection; but he will hence evince the real being of Perfection, and that common to all believers. (…) God made man upright, and able to fulfil all his Law; and when he hath dilapidated his stock of strength, must God be unjust, if he require due debt? Or doth mans inability dissolve his obligation? Seing God is pleased of his grace, to help his owne to performance of duty in part, upon a new score, let them mourne for shortcomings, and flee to the bloud of Christ, conforme to the Gospel, that there they may get extracts of pardon; and be thankful, that the Lord hath so secured the matter, that they shall never come into condemnation.

21. As to the saints he reasoneth further thus; Their imperfection is either from themselves, or from God: If from themselves, then it is because they use not the power they have for that effect, and if they have a power, it is not impossible; if from God, as not giving them that measure of grace, whereby they may be enabled to do all his will, then He should be unrighteous. Ans. Thus reasoned the Pelagian Caelestius of old, and Crellius the Socinian of late. See Hoornb. ubisupra. Pag. 103. And we say. (1.) This will at most conclude only for a possibility of Perfection, or immunity from sin: and so will not serve his point. (2.) If he mean a culpable cause, I say, it is from themselves, and that not because they have any moral power now, for keeping the whole Law perfectly, (though I grant withall, that they have more, than they make good use of) but because that power, which was once given, was sinfully cast away. (3.) It is false, that God should be unrighteous, if he gave not that measure of grace, whereby they should become perfect. Nay, sayes he, God shall be more unjust than are the vilest of men, who will not give to their children asking bread a stone, nor a serpent to them, when asking for fish. Ans. The Lord rebuke this blasphemous tongue! what ground is there for this? They confess, sayes he, that they must ask of God deliverance from sin. Very true: And yet such a thing is never to be expected. The Lord forbid. We expect and hope for growing deliverance, and final and full deliverance in end, when the saints shall say and sing, O grave where is thy victory, and O death where is thy sting? And p. 341they shall come unto the upper mount Zion, the city of the living God,—& to the Spirits of just men made perfect; & when all teares shall be wiped away from off their faces. But it seemeth our Quakers expect all their heaven here. Where is now the stones that God giveth instead of bread, & the serpents he giveth instead of fish? His following calumnious insinuation hath been spoken to already elsewhere.

22. His third argument followeth Pag. 156. §. 5. He sayes, our opinion is injurious to Christ, and his sacrifice: Christ was manifested chiefly for this end, to take away sin, and gather a people to himself, zealous of good works Tit. 2:14. and to bring in everlasting righteousness, that is, Evangelical perfection Answ So hote is this man in his pursuite, that to reach us, he careth not though he pierce his owne bowels; for by this one argument, he destroyeth all that he said of Vniversal Redemption; as we cleared above Chap. VIII. But as to us, it reacheth us not; for we grant, that Christ came to take away sin, both as to guilt, and this he did by the sacrifice of himself; and as to the staine and being of it, and this he doth by his Spirit, piece and piece, till in end he give full victory; and so he hath a people redeemed from the guilt and power of iniquity, though not fully from its presence and stirrings; and a people zealous of good works, which is not inconsistent with the stirrings of a crucified body of death. That that everlasting righteounsess mentioned by Daniel Chap. 9. is to be understood of Evangelical perfection, is said, but not proved. Againe, he sayes, It is said 1 Ioh. 3:5, 8. that the Son of God appeared for this end, to take away our sinnes, and to destroy the works of the devil. Answ. True; and so he hath done, by taking away the guilt, and by destroying daily the works of the devil in his people, mortifying lust and corruption, and carrying on the work of grace, till at length it be perfected. Ay but, he sayes, it is added, he that is borne of God doth not commit sin, that is, doth not break the Law, in thought, word or deed Answ. What that is, to commit sin, we shewed above; and also that by this passage thus interpreted, he shall prove, what is against himself; to wit, that that highest degree of Perfection, which whosoever hath attained, cannot sin any more, is not peculiar to some, but common to all, that are borne of God. Is not Christ sent (saith he further) to turne a people from sin unto righteousness, and from the Kingdom of Satan, unto the Kingdom of his dear Son? Answ. Yes. Are not these thus converted, his servants, children, brethren, friends? Ans. They are. Are they not as he in the world, holy, pure, and immaculate. Answ. The text saith not this, Read againe 1 Ioh. 4:27, Doth not Christ watch over them, care and pray for them, save them by his Spirit, walking in them and among them? Ans. This is all true, and …hence we inferre, that they shall certainly be perfected in end, and shall persevere unto the end; contrare to what he saith, as we shall see in the next Chap. But all this will not prove a sinless Perfection common to all the saints. But will not Christ have them perfect: or is he not able to make them perfect? Ans. Yes▪ But he will do it in his owne time and way. He himself will not deny, but Christ is able to make them all perfect, in the highest degree, so as not to be able to sin any more; yet for all that, he will not say, that it is so. He citeth also Ephes 5:25, 26, 27. But nothing to his purpose, for we grant, that the Lord will present his Bride to himself one day, faire and cleane p. 342without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; and that he is about this work, bringing all his forward unto this state of perfection, washing them, & cleansing them in his blond, and by his Spirit sanctifying them more and more. But saith he, if they do sin in thought word and deed dayly, there is no difference, betwixt the holy and profane, the cleane and unclean, &c. Answ. Notwithstanding of this, the difference is great; for what the profane doth is nothing but sin, and in nothing accepted of God, through Christ; and is done with full purpose of heart, without any contrary lusting of the Spirit: all they do, as it floweth from an evil principle; so it is done for an evil end, and in a corrupt sinful manner; and so is wholly defiled. But it is not so with the child of God, He mourneth over and repenteth of his shortcomings, and striveth against sin; The other not: So there are many moe differences, too many here to be insisted upon.

23. His fourth Argument Pag. 157 §. 6. is, That our doctrine maketh the work of the ministry, preaching, prayers, &c. useless; while as Paul sayes Ephes. 4:11. that pastors are given for the perfecting of the Saints, &c. till we all come unto the unity of faith &c. Answ. (1.) Hence we see the necessity of a standing Ministrie, which yet he and is brethren are against, as we shall heare. (2.) The Ministrie is to bring them on toward perfection; and is for the edifying and building up of the body, and of particular souls, till we all come at length into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. How is it proved, that this ultimat end is attained here? And further, we told above, that there was a perfection comparative, and in parts, here attainable and attained, according to the measure of grace, & of the gift given to every man Ephes. 4 7. 1 Cor. 12:11. But not a perfection of degrees, which excludeth all increase and grouth, contrare to 2 Pet. 3:18. Phil. 3:12:2 Thes. 1:3. not such a perfection as excludeth all sin. He addeth Pag. 158. doth not the Apostle say, that the Scriptures are given to make the man of God perfect 2 Tim. 3.17. Answ. Yes: And they do that, in their owne manner, as a perfect and compleat Rule, giving full instruction and information in all things necessary to salvation, contrare to what himself taught above: so that the the man of God neede…h to hearken to no Dreames, Enthusiasms, or Precepts of men, to learne what is God's wi…l. How doth our doctrine make Prayers useless? Are not these prayers (saith he) useless and without faith, that are made for preservation from sin, if withall they beleeve that God will not give them, what they ask. Answ. So said Crellius the Socinian. But the doctrine of Perfection seemeth rather to take away all use of such Prayer; for who will pray for that, which they have? (2.) If saints pray for a sinless state here, they pray without warrand. He that taught us to pray, that we be not led into temptation, taught us also to pray for forgiveness of sinnes. But saith he, what shall we say of the prayers of the Apostles Col. 4:12. 1 Thes. 3:13. & 5:22 &c. Did they pray so without faith. Ans.. This is another of Crellius arguments: But we say, The Prayers of the Apostles were not for a sinless state; nor did they beleeve, that the Saints here could be in such a state, as to sinne no more: Nay, while they prayed thus for the saints, they supposed, that the saints had not yet attained to it. Epaphras (not the Apostle Paul) is said Col. 4:12. to p. 343labour fervently in prayer, that the Colossians might stand perfect and compleat in all the will of God; that is, might set the will of God only before them, as their Rule; and hang upon no man, as to their Christian conduct, but walk in sincerity, as becometh Christians, following the rule of Gods Law; and might not be alwayes c…ildren tossed to and fro, with every winde of doctrine, and spoiled through Philosophy and vaine deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ; as there was ground to feare, as we see Chap. 2. Paul. 1 Thes. 3:12, 13. is clear against this imagined Perfection; for he prayeth, that God would make them to increase and abound in love, (so that th…re was yet some shortcoming) to the end he might establish their hearts, unblameable in holiness—at the coming of our Lord Iesus Christ. So that he sheweth not, what a measure of love and holiness, they will attaine unto here; but prayeth, that it might alwayes be growing, untill it attaine its full perfection, at the coming of the Lord. The same is clear from 2 Thes. 5:23. Which maketh against this imagined perfection, and speaketh only of a perfection of parts, not of degrees.

24. In the fift place he reasoneth thus Pag. 158. §. 7. Our doctrine is repugnant to common sense and reason. Why so? for these two opposite principles in the children of darkness, and in the children of light, are sin and righteousness. And as men are respectively fermented with the one or the other, so are they to be called justified or reprobated; seing he that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just; even they both are abomination to the Lord Prov. 17:15. Ans. This argument would prove as well, that full perfection, which he denieth to be common to all the Regenerat, to be essential to the state of Christianity; and therefore he must answere it, as well as we. But (2.) That there are contrary principles, in the godly, and wicked, is true; and it is as true, that there remaineth sin in the godly, which floweth from a principle of corruption; yet the Godly man is not fermented (to speak in the dialect of the Quaker,) or rather (to speak in the dialect of the Scriptures) is not under the dominion of that principle, nor given up thereunto, as the wicked are. with full will, consent and pleasure, without any reluctancy or lusting of a contrary principle. (3.) It is not saife, to call all not yet justified, reprobat (4.) The Lord justifieth none, upon the account of their Inherent Righteousness; and indeed this mans opinion, tendeth to a setting up of Justification by the works of the law, or inherent righteousness; for if man can abide in all things, that are written in the Law, he should be free of the curse. Gal. 3:10. But this is contrary to the experience of the best of Saints. Psal. 130:3. & 143:2. Iob. 9:3. & 4…:5. 1 Cor. 4:4. And the Law should not then be weak because of flesh, contrare to Rom. 8.3. And contrare to that Iam. 2:10. He who trangresseth in one, is guilty in all: and contrary to these Scriptures, Gal. 3:21, 22. & 2:21 & 3:10. further sayes he Then a man should be called just, who sinneth in all his actions, Ans. No man is calle… just before God, in point of Justification, becau…e of his Inherent Righteousness, but because of the perfect righteousness of Christ, imputed to him by God, & received by faith. And as to sanctification, such may be called just, because of Integrity, Sincerity & Uprightness of heart, & because of Endeavouring after conformity to the Law, in the strengh of the Lord; upon which p. 344account the man is approven of God; but not because he is sinless; for then no man should goe under that denomination. But sayes he, the subject is donominated by the accident, that adhereth. Ans. Yet a wall is called white though the whiteness be not perfect: but mixed: And God giveth the denomination according to grace, that is, according to the better part, though it sometimes should be the lesser part. He asketh, where are then the children of God, and of light, the sanctified and purified ones? Ans. Even where these are, who are groaning under a body of death, and running daily to the fountaine, and giving Christ much work (to speak so) to wash and make them clean from their daily pollutions, and defilements, and have renunced the works of darkness; and are now serving the Lord with singleness, though with much weakness and many failings.

25. In the next place Pag. 159. §. 8. He cometh more directly to confirme his owne Opinion. And his first argum. is the old Pelagian argument, formerly rejected, and which is used by Volkelius the Socinian lib. 2. c. 22. viz. That the commands of Christ and the Apostles, suppose it to be possible, or in our power. He proveth, that this perfection is not only possible, but necessary, from several Scriptures: such as Mat. 5:48. Which only proveth it our duty to endeavour after Perfection; and to minde all duties, even such as the corrupt pharisees, thought no duties, such as to love our enemies, to blesse them that curse us, &c. vers. 44, 45, 46, 47. As for Mat. 7:21. Ioh. 13:17. 1 Cor. 7:19. they can make nothing for him, unless he suppose, that no man shall be saved, who ever sinned: And further, seing he will not deny, that some of these passages, at least, concerne the unconverted, he must also grant, that even they also may attaine to this Perfection. As for 2 Cor. 13:11. & 1 Ioh. 3:2—10. we have spoken to before: And by this last, we know to expound that, 1 Ioh. 2:3, 4, 5, 6.

26. His next argu: is from Rom. 6:14. Which speaketh only of the dominion of sin, from which, we grant, all beleever are delivered; and if he know no difference betwixt a state of freedom from the dominion of sin, and a sinless state, he is ignorant of Christianity. He citeth also Rom. 8:3. which is directly against him; And if he look to vers 4. that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us. It can make nothing for him: for it is not said, by us, but in us, that is, in our nature, when Christ came in the likeness of sinful flesh, and fulfilled all righteousness, and so answered the Law, by doing, as well as by suffering; which righteousness, consisting as well in his obedience, as in his suffering, is imputed to beleevers, and by vertue thereof, they come to have a right to the crown, and to life, which was lost by the breach of the Law, which required full obedience, and satisfaction in case of transgression; and that notwithstanding of their shortcomings, which are many. But how then, sayes he, is the Gospel differenced from the Law, which made nothing perfect? Ans. The Law pointed out Christ to come, in whom alone, all was to be had; and without him, its ordinances made nothing perfect: And the Gospel exhibiteth this Lord Jesus, in whom dwelleth all fulness; and who is able to save to the uttermost all that come to God through him. Pag. 160. he saith That Paul proveth this through the whole 6. Chap. to the Romans. Ans. The contrary is most p. 345manifest, for he is encouraging beleevers to holiness, and dehorting them from a continua…ce in sin, which supposeth, that persons may be beleevers, and yet have need of such dehortations, and encouragments: for where this Quakers perfection taketh place, all these are laid aside, as utterly useless. He speaketh not of sinlesness, but of a living in sin vers. 2. which is opposite to a being dead to sin, that is, freed of sins Dominion and Law-power; and which is opposite to a walking in newness of life, vers. 4. And vers. 6. he sayes, though the old man was virtually and legally crucified with Christ; Yet it is not actually killed, that the body of sin might be destroyed, in due time; and then inferreth. that henceforth we should not serve sin, as our Master and Lord. And this he turneth into an exhortation vers. 12. Let not sin reigne therefore in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof, vers. 13. neither yeeld ye your members, as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: And for their encouragment, tels them vers. 14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: he saith not, for sin shall have no being in you. And againe vers. 16. he dehorteth them from a yeelding of themselves, as servants to obey sin, and vers. 19. he presseth them to yeeld their members as servants to righteousness, which is opposed to a becoming servants of sin vers. 20. And to presse this the more, he mindes them of their state, to wit, that now they were not the servants of sin, having obeyed from the heart that forme of doctrine, whereinto they were cast & moulded: & vers. 22. that they were made free from sin, &c. What our Quaker speaketh afterward of the way of attaining this perfection, by laying aside the outward Law, and looking only to the Light within, we look upon as a Quakers dream: And when he saith, that our looking to the outward Law, & finding an impossibility of keeping it perfectly, put us to wrest the Scriptures, to seek after an imputative righteousness. He but declareth the true genius and nature of that antievangelick and diabolical Spirit, that acteth them. And what followeth Pag. 160. is but a confirmation of what we said, viz. that all the Perfection, they would bring us to, by hearkning to the Light within, is but a paganish perfection. And his great promises Pag. 161. we account delusions, being resolved to goe to the Law and to the Testimony; and to abide by the declaration of God's minde, in his word, and not to follow the Light of nature, nor the hellish enlightenings of the devil, who was a liar from the beginning, in this great mater.

27. In the last place Pag. 161. for a proof of this, he adduceth some instances; as did the Remonstrants in their Apologie Chap. 17. before him. Such as Enoch & Noah, who are said to have walked with God, and to be perfect Gen. 5. & 6. Ans. They were Sincere and Upright, and had a Perfection of parts, though not of degrees, and so walked with God: and by all their perfection, they were not justified: but by faith, which leadeth a man out of himself; and so became heires of the righteousness, which is by faith Heb. 11:5, 6, 7. Moreover we read of Noah's sinne. As for Iob, though he was a perfect and upright man, yet his book declareth, that he was not sinless; and Elihu evinceth it; yea God layeth to his charge Chap. 38:2. that he darkened counsel by words without knowledge: And himself Chap. 42:2. confesseth, that he uttered what he understood not, things too wonderful for him, which he knew not: for which he abhorred himself, and p. 346repented in dust and ashes vers. 6. As for Zacharias and Elizabeth, Augustine of old answered, de gratia Christi contra Pelag. Cap. 48. that this was to be understood of their unblameable conversation, in the eyes of men; and the Lord accounted them such. And Iustin. Matyr, in Quaest. & Resp. orthodox. Quaest. 141. distinguisheth betwixt irreprehensible and sinless. It is said of them indeed, that they were blameless, as all Pastors should be 1 Tim. 3▪ 2. an… all Christians Phil. 2:15. but not that they were sinless. And August. lib. cont. Caelest: distinguisheth betwixt esse sine peccato, & esse sine querela; and he sayes, this may be said of some; but that of none, but of Christ. What he saith from Ephes. 2:5, 6. is true, viz. that such as sit with Christ, to wit. Actually, sin no more; but now they sit not actually there, but only in Christ Jesus, their head. As for Heb. 12:22, 23. whatever beginnings there may be thereof here; Yet its fulness is above. Revel. 14:5. speaketh not of Perfection here, but of their blamelesness, that is, their Sincerity and Uprightness. And this is all that he adduceth, to prove his Opinion by: and how slender his grounds are, let any judge.

28. He comes at length to answere some of our arguments §. 9. Pag. 161. &c. And to that brought from 1 Ioh. 1.8. if we say, we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, & the truth is not in us. He wondereth that we are so blinde & partial as to alleige this place, against which, so much might be said. Let us hear what can be said? He saith That we doth not include the Apostle, as we see Iam. 3:9, 10. Ans. That place of Iames taketh in all, even the Apostles, though not for the present time; and that was sufficient to prove, what a member the tongue was. And he might say as well, that the Apostle is not included, 1 Ioh. 1:7, 9, 10. Nor Chap. 2:1, 2, 3. But n…xt, be it so, that the Apostle is not here expresly included; it is sufficient for us, that it is spoken of beleevers, to whom Iohn wrote, that their joy might be full vers 4. and who have interest in the bloud of Christ, vers. 7. and are children Chap. 2: vers. 1. and have an advocate with the Father, Iesus Christ the righteous ibid. and are brethren vers. 7. who had their sinnes forgiven them, vers. 12. and knew the Father vers. 13. and among these come in also the young men, and the Fathers, mentioned vers. 13, 14. What saith he next? Here it is not said, that we daily sin, in word and deed, far less, that all our best works are sinful, for the following verse showeth the contrary, where it is said, that such as confess their sins get pardon, and are washen: and this cleansing cannot be meaned of remitting the guilt, for that was expressed by forgiving; otherwise there should be a tautology here. Ans. (1.) It is sufficient that this place proveth, that beleevers are not so perfect, as to be sinless here. (2.) It is true, beleevers confessing their sins, and fleeing to Christ by faith, obtaine remission of their sins: and it is also true, that Christs bloud cleanseth them, from guilt and staine: but that cleansing from the staine and filth is not perfect here; for then there were no need of remission; and beleevers might say, they had no sin, contrare to what is here said verse 8. and Chap. 2:1. In the 3. place he distinguisheth betwixt sinning, and having sin, (as Volkelius the Socinian lib. 5. c. 19. did, to elude this place, betwixt having of sin, and being accustomed to sin) and then tels us, that because all have sinned, it may be said of them, that they have sin Just as Smalcius the Socinian said disp. 6. de Bonis Oper. Pag. 178. But we Ans. That the Apostle expresly saith both, that we have sin vers. 8. and p. 347that we have had sin vers. 10. And he that sinneth in the present time, he hath sin, in the present time: And beside this having of sin, he supponeth that they may sin, saying Chap. 2:1▪ My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not, that is not, that ye have not had sin: And if any man sin, that is in the present and future time, We have an advocate with the Father, &c. And it is observable, that the Apostle cleareth vers. 9. what he meaned by having of sin, vers. 8. by saying if we confess our sinnes, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sinnes: For here he can mean no other, than such sinnes, as need foregiveness; and not such, as were formerly was hen away by the bloud of Jesus vers. 7. Moreove… he tels us, that sin may be taken for the seed of sin, that for some time remaineth even in such, as are redeemed from actual sin: and when the children of God resist the temptations that come from this seed, it is not their sin, but the Devils, that tempteth. Ans. (1.) This seed of sin is sinful, and as lon…, as this seed of sin is in them, they cannot be perfect. (2.) The Apostle is speaking of actual sins (not excluding this seed and body of death) which must be confessed, before they be actually pardoned, and they cleansed from the guilt of them, vers. 9. (3.) In so far, as the godly resist these temptations, they do well; but even these sinful motions of corruption, within them, are transgressions of the Law, and should be mourned for; and are evidences, that the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, so that they do not what they should do▪ every way as they ought to do: What he saith in the last place, to wit, That this place should not be so wrested, as to speak against what the same Apostle saith frequently, in the same Epistle. Is founded upon his presumption, and false supposition, that he hath proven this Perfection, from this Epistle; the con…rary whereof is shown.

29. To 1 King. 8:46. and Eccles. 7:20. he answereth, That there is nothing here said of sinning daily; Yea Sal…mon, in that place, two verses thereafter, speaketh of them, that turne from their sinnes, with all their heart; which insinuateth a possibility of relinquishing sin. Ans. It is expresse in Ecclesiastes, that there is not a just man upon earth, that doth good and sinneth not, clearly importing, that even in their doing good, they sinne; and so, that they sinne daily. What followeth 1 King. 8:48. speaketh only of their Repentance, which we deny not to be possible: but nothing of this possibility of not sinning. He answereth 2. Though it were granted, that at that time, there was no man that sinned not; yet it will not follow, that there are none such now, or that it is Impossible there should be any such. Ans. (1.) Then he must say either that, at that time, there were none Regenerate, no not Solomon himself; or that his position is false, which maketh this common to all Regenerate persons. (2.) We have proven it, not only under the Old Test. but also under the New: & what needs more? (3.) We do not speak of a simple impossibility, as if it surpassed the power of God, to cause such a thing; but of an ordinary impossibility, matters standing as they are, in the wise ordination of God, who will so have it. In the 3. place he comes to criticize, & tell us, that foreign is taken in the potential mood; and so it signifieth, who may not, or cannot sin, as Ps. 119:11. Ans. And why not also ought not, seing this Mood is used to expresse that? This is but vanity, for the Hebrew hath not properly potential moods. And though interpreters do usually render it so, as more congruous p. 348latin; yet the sense abideth the same: and the Dutch translate it, as we have it. And what will this say to other places? Nay, the very scope of Solomon evidenceth, our translation to be right, & his gloss to be but vanity; as is obvious to every Reader.

30. To that argument from Rom. 7:14. &c. he answereth the same, that Socinians and Arminians answered of old, to wit, That the Apostle is not there speaking of himself, but of an unregenerate person. While as all the circumstances of the text evince the contrary; to wit, that he is speaking of himself, and that in the present time; for he useth alwayes from vers. 14. and forward, verbs in the present tense; and he distinguisheth betwixt the Old and New man, in himself, ascribeing to each their proper work; and speaketh many things of himself, which cannot be spoken of the Unregenerat. as (1.) To will and approve what is good, and to nill and disapprove what is evil, and that alwayes; and to approve all good, and disapprove all evil, discovered to be such. (2.) To consent unto the Law, that it is good; and to delight therein, and that according to the inner man, which is the Regenerat part, opposite to the Old man. (3.) Not to do evil, not I, it is no more I; and that was according to the Renewed part. (4.) To have an inner man, which is proper to the Regenerate Ephes. 3:19. (5.) To feel a strife and warre betwixt the Flesh and the Spirit, which also agreeth to the Regenerate Gal. 5:17. (6) To hate evil, which no Unregenerate person can do. (7.) To approve of the Law, as Spiritual. (8.) To have will present unto good, even when he findeth not how to performe what is good. (9.) To be brought into captivity to the Law of sin; while as the wicked are willing slaves. (10.) To be groaning under this body of death, and accounting himself wreatched because of it. (11.) To have a Law in the minde, against which the Law in the members maketh warre. (12.) To be expecting full delivery in Jesus Christ. (13.) To be thankfull to God, upon that account. (14.) To be serving the Law of God, when the flesh is serving the Law of sin. (15) And Chap. 8:1. being an inference from wha… is said Chap. 7. he inferreth, that there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ, which supposeth, that he was speaking of one, that was in Christ; otherwise his Inference had not been pertinent.

31. These things are clear, and might be further explained and confirmed, if it were necessary. Let us see, what he saith against this. 1. He saith The Apostle declared the contrary Chap. 6 2. Answ. No such matter: for what he said there, and what he saith here, can well agree; for he that is thus resisting sin, striveing and protesting against it, when he can do no more, is abundan…ly evidencing, that he is dead unto it, as to its dominion: and that he is not living therein. 2. He saith, Paul could not call himself a carnal man, as vers. 14. Answ. So said Schlightingius the Socinian, So Arminius: But we say, Paul doth not call himself simply, and every way, carnal, but only in a certain respect, distinguishing betwixt his better part, which he owneth as himself, and this Flesh vers. 18. And we finde also, that Paul called the Corinthians, who were babes in Christ, carnal in some respect 1 Cor. 3:1, 2. He saith 3. The Apostle Chap. 8. saith, he was made free from the Law of sin and death, and so he could p. 349not be then carnal. Answ. Neither say we that he was carnal in so far, but spiritual. 4. He saith, That Paul Chap. 8:35. saith who shall separat us from the love of Christ & vers. 37. that in all these things, we are more then conquerours. And vers last, nothing can separat us. But where sin is, and is continued in, there there is a separation: for all sin is contrary to God 1 Ioh. 3:4. Answ. That sin, where it is striven and wrestled against, as Rom. 7:15. &c. will make a separation from God, I deny. (2.) That sin is contrary to God, I no where read; that it is a breach and transgression of his Law, is true▪

32. To the instances of the failings of Noah and David, He saith, They are nothing to the purpose. Why so? The question is not, saith he, whether good men cannot sin, num non possint peccare; but, whether they be able not to sin, num possint non peccare: And this may be true, though they have sinned. Answ. But our Argument lyeth thus; If these men, whom the Spirit of God stileth Perfect, and men according to God's heart, have had their failings, and these failings are registrated for our use; then we have no Scripture warrant for such a Perfection here, as is not attended with sin: But the former is true. Let him of now apply his answere to this argument, and see what it will say. Or thus we may frame the Argument: If we finde no instances in Scripture such persons, as were so perfect, as that they did not sin, then to imagine such a perfection is but a groundless fancy & a dream. But the former is true. Or, If we finde sin consisting with a state of Regeneration, than it is false, that all Regenerat persons are in a sinless state. Hereby also is that, which he addeth in the second place, obviated. And further we say, that from these instances, we do not prove, that the godly sin, in all they do, because of a body of death, and corruption cleaving to them; other Arguments evince that: But from these instances, we shew, that his sinless state is but a Quakeristick dream.

33. To that argument. That this doctrine taketh away the study of Mortification, and Usemaking of the blood of Christ, and Praying for remission. He very civilly tels us, T…at because of its absurdity, he had almost forgoten it. As if he had answered all the arguments, we use against this errour. But wherein consists its absurdity? Is (sayes he) mortification of sin useless when its end is attained? But he mistaketh, after his usual manner, our argument; which in forme runneth thus. If mortification be a duty pressed on persons regenerated; then persons regenerated have sin, and corruption in them to be mortified, and so are not sinless. But the former is true. Therefore &c. May it please him, to shew the absurdity of this argument. When all sin is mortified, there is no more need of this duty of studying mortification: and if all sin be mortified in the regenerate. they have nothing to do with that duty: and so this stu…ying of mortification is incumbent only to unregenerat persons: doth the Scripture speak so? Why doth he not then shew it? This would be more pertinent to the purpose, than his extravagant discourse that followeth, which I have nothing to …o with. But what saith he to prayer, He answereth with Smalcius the Socinian a…ainst Frantzius disp. 6. Pa. 181. & disp. 9. Pag. 289. That wen we are to pray, forgive us our sinnes, the meaning is not of daily sinnes, but of bygone sinnes. Ans. Why will he not p. 350say also, that when we pray, give us this day our daily bread, it is meaned of long since, before conversion; what vanity is this? But he saith next. This militateth as much against perfect justification. Ans. The man understandeth not our doctrine of Justification; He supposeth we say with Antinomians, that in Justification all sinnes, not yet actually committed, are actually pardoned; while as from this petition we prove the contrary: and yet assert a difference betwixt Justification & Sanctification, as he may see in the larger Chatechisme Quaest. 77. cited above.

34. He citeth some sayings of Hieron. and of Gelasius; and bids us see som places of Augustine. But if he will be pleased to read what Vossius hath gathered out of these, and many others of the Fathers, against Pelagius, upon this head, which we hinted above, he may see his folly, and blush. Doth not Augustine, in his book against Celestius, frequently use that very argument, forgive us our sins? And doth he not say, De Spirit. & liter. 36. Multum ille in hac vita profecit, qui quam longe sit a perfectione justitiae proficiendo cognovit: A grave saying, that is. He hath advanced very far in this life, who hath so far advanced, as to know, that he is far from perfection. And Hierom, in the very place cited him, to wit Epist. ad Ctesiphontem, saith. This is mens perfection, if they know, that they are imperfest. And against his conclusion, as it standeth, I will not be so morose, as not to assent to it, unless he mean the last words hereof viz. that passage Revel. 3:12. to him, that overcometh, will I make a pillar in the temple of m… God, as fulfilled in this life: and if so, he must mean the same of all the rest of the promises made there Chap. 2. & 3. to Overcomers, which would make him ridiculous enough. If he would have cited Ancients to his purpose, he should have cited the old Begardi, who maintained this; and said, that a perfect soul being reduced to God, loseth its own will, so that it hath no other will but the divine will, which it had from eternity, in that ideal being, which it had in God; which being supposed (they say) they may do any thing, which their affection puts them upon, without sin. And so the reason why such persons cannot sin, is because all sins, even unclean mixtures (as they also said) are no sinnes. He should have cited also the old Alumbradoes, who had the same opinion, & practices suteable.