Baxters Narrative of His Life and Times, Part 2 · Section 10 · Letter 2 – Letter 3

Baxters Narrative of His Life and Times · Part 2 · Section 10 · Letter 2 – Letter 3

p. 224The Answer to the Lady Anne Lindsey's Letter to her Mother.

Madam!

IT pleased the truly honourable Lady your Mother to shew me your Letter directed to her from Calice, and to give me leave to send you my Animadversions upon it: which I am the willinger to do, because I perceive you have there contracted the Reasons most commonly used for the perverting of the Ignorant, and which its likely have prevailed most with your self: (You must give me leave to be free and plain with you in the Matters of God and of Salvation). I think it meet to leave the first part of your Letter (of the Point of Obedience) to your Mother's Animadversions: It is the Doctrinal Part that I shall speak to.

You say that [Heresies against Faith, expressed by the Name of Sects, cut us off from Heaven, and that an A…athema is on them that preach any other Doctrine than what was preached by the Apostles]. How far Heresie cuts off from the Church, I have distinctly shewed you in the end of my Book against Mr. Iohnson, on that Question: but while you expect your Mother should consider of your Reasons, you will not your self peruse an Answer to them, which before was tendered you: whom then can you blame if your Soul be cheated. Briefly, you err in Confounding Sects and Heresies, which are not the same. Heresies indeed, which are false Doctrines practically inconsistent with the Essentials of Christian Faith, do cut Men off from a state of Life, or shew them to be Aliens: but lesser Errours, called Heresies by ignorant or uncharitable Men, do un-Church none. Herein I plead for you: for if they did, then wo to the Church of Rome, that hath so many Errours: And if it be damnable to be a Sect, all Papists must be damned; they being as certainly a Sect as there is any in the World: A corrupt part of the Universal Church, condemning the rest, and pretending to be it self the whole, is a Sect or Party of Schismaticks: but such are the Papists: Therefore they are a Sect, &c. But this is not the worst; You consequently Anathematize all Papists by your Sentance: for Heresies by your own Sentance cut off Men from Heaven: But Popery is a bundle of Heresies: Therefore it cuts off Men from Heaven. The minor I prove according to your Churches Principles, that Doctrine is Heresie which is contrary to a point of Faith: But many of the Papists Doctrines are contrary to Points of Faith: Ergo, &c. To pass by now all those Points of Popery which are contrary to what the Holy Scripture revealeth for us to believe (which are many) I only instance in the Point of Sovereignty, is contrary to the Determination of our General Councils. That which is contrary to what a General Council pronounceth to be believed, is (in the Papists sence) a Heresie: But that the Pope is above a General Council, and that a General Council is above the Pope, are both determined to be believed by General Councils: The first by the Councils, at the Laterane and Florence; and the second by the Councils at Constance and Basil: They are both Heresies therefore, because they are both against General Councils: and they are both Points of Popery, because both determined in General Councils, (as I have proved in my Key, &c.) If you will peruse a Catalogue in the End of my Book, called The Safe Religion, or p. 225the Thirty two Novelties mentioned in my Key, pag. 142, 143, 144. you will see whether Popery be Error. If any other Doctrine contrary … Christ's do infer an Anathema, then everlasting Woe to Papists. And here you may see the Safety of the true Catholicks that have rejected Popery: Our Religion is all contained in the Holy Scripture; we profess to have no other Rule; and you charge us not (that I know of) with believing too much by holding any positive Error, but with believing too little, because we believe not your supernumerary Articles: And therefore you cannot say, that we teach any other Doctrine than Christ's: though you fancy that we teach not all, because we teach not your Traditions. But on the contrary, we prove that you teach another Doctrine, and many such, which Christ never delivered to the Church. But yet to abate your severe Sel… condemnation, let me excuse you thus far, as to say, that you do it upon mistake: For Gal. 1. saith not, [Let him be accursed that preacheth another Doctrine] but [another Gospel:] While it is the same Gospel in the Essentials that is preached and believed, this Anathema belongs not even to you that err, till you come to contradict the Essence and make it [another Gospel] as well as [another Doctrine].

If you have made it your whole business till seventeen Years of Age to [pray to God to direct you to follow his Doctrine] it's like that I (and many another) have made it at least, as much of our Business till forty six Years of Age, as ever you did, and with better Advantage, and yet are as confident of the Falseness of your Doctrine, as we are that the Earth doth bear us; here therefore you are not beforehand with us.

But what have you found that cheated or frighned you into Popery: 1. [The variety of Iudgments:] But you never found the far greater variety among Papists? You never read the voluminous Dispute between the Dominicanes and Jesuits (to overpass the rest); or perhaps you will (as others do) expect that the very same Opinion be a Heresy in a Calvanist, and none in a Dominicane or Iansenist: or a Heresy in a Lutheran and none in a Iesuit: You will run out of England because of Mens diversity of Complexions, and finding a greater Diversity in France, expect it should be esteemed none. If I prove not before any impartial Judge, that the Papists have far more and greater Differences amongst thems…ves than the reformed Churches, called Protestants (yea, I doubt not, I may add, than Greeks, Calvinists, Lutherans, and many more such set together) then let your Imagination go for Truth. Bellarmine himself hath enumerated enough.

2. You say, [the Scripture admits of no private Interpretation]. But 1. You abuse the Text and your self with a false Interpretation of it, in these Words. An Interpretation is called private, either as to the Subject Person, or as to the Interpreter: You take the Text to speak of the latter, when the Context plainly sheweth you that it speaks of the former: The Apostle directing them to understand the Prophesies of the Old Testament, gives them this Caution; That none of these Scriptures that are spoken of Christ the publick Person, must be interpreted as spoken of David or other private Persons only, of whom they were mentioned but as Types of Christ: It is subjectively a private Interpretation to restrain that Scripture (e. g. the Second Psalm) to David or other ordinary Men, which the Holy Ghost intended of the Messiah. But here's no talk against Private Interpreters, but only against a Private Interpretation. 2. But suppose it were as you imagin, and the publick Judgment of any Case suppose a Publick Interpreter; yet every Man must see with his own Eyes, and their private Judgment of Discretion must be according to their private, that is, personal Interpretation: Or else your Churches Interpretation must have another publick Interpretation, and that another, and so endlesly: If we can understand your Councils (which your Doctors disagree about) without another publick Interpretation, we may as easily understand the Scripture, or at least, much of it: And therefore that can be none of the Sence which you imagine [no Scripture, &c.] 3. Yea, suppose all Interpretation must be publick, and you may not presume to misunderstand the Commands of Repentance, Faith or Love, without a publick Commentary, do you think this doth not make against you? Is not the Interpretation of the Papal Sect a more private Interpretation than that of the whole Church: The Greek, Arminians, Abassines, Protestants, and so all the far greatest part of the Church interpret those Texts, which you wrest for the Papal Soveraignty, in a quite other Sense: And is not the Interpretation of your Fourth or Third part of the Church (that's partial in the Cause) more private than that of all the rest? would you have Men care no more for their Souls than to cast them away upon the Delusion of such Reasonings as these?

p. 2263. You next speak of [Interpretations by Apostolical Tradition]: But are sober People capable of such a Bafflle, as to lay their Salvation on a Dream that never had a Being? Was there ever such a thing as an Interpretation of the Bible by Apostolical Tradition, without which, no Scripture must be interpreted? Where is that Commentary that the World never knew, and yet all must know it that will be saved? Written it is not, by Fathers, Popes, or Councils; and if unwritten, in whose Memory is it, and how learnt they it? Not in the Peoples, nor the generality of Pastors, for they (that were most learned) presume to write their private Interpretations and Commentaries (never giving us the publick Commentary) and take Liberty to differ about many hundred Texts among themselves. and are not these then gross Delusions.

4. You say, [the Church is a City set upon a Hill.] Christ speaks there of Preachers, but let it be of the whole Church. In good sadness can you believe that [the Universality of Christians] which is the true Catholick Church, is not more conspicuous than the Papal Faction, or any one particular Part? Should your Sect be judged more visible than the whole Christian World?

5. That the Church is the Pillar and Ground of Truth, the Possessors, Keepers and Teachers of God's Oracles, and that the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it, is most sure and comfortable Truth. But what is this to Rome, any more than to Ierusalem or Alexandria? The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Body of Christ, the Universality of Christians, the true Catholick Church: But it may prevail against Corinthians, Gallateans, Romans, or any particular part: As it prevailed against Pope Iohn XXII. alias XXIII. to make him deny the Resurrection, and against Pope Eugenius to make him a Heretick, if General Councils are to be believed.

6. As to what you say of [Apostles still placed in the Church]: When any shew us an immediate Mission by their Commission; and by Miracles, Tongues, and a Spirit of Revelation and infallability prove themselves Apostles, we shall believe them. Till then we remember that Church that was commended for trying them that said they were Apostles, and were not, and finding them Lyers, Rev. 23. Peter and the Twelve Apostles with him we acknowledge, and Paul we acknowledge, but know none properly called Apostles, living now: But if it be only the Name and not the Office that you differ about; and by Apostles you mean not [Men immediately sent by Christ to preach the Gospel with a Spirit of Miracles and Infallability] (which is our Sense of that Word) but some other sort of Men, then if they be ordinory Pastors or Bishops its no matter of Difference; if not, you must describe them before we can know them: They are to blame whoever they be, that they call not themselves Apostles, and tell us where, who, and how many they are, if they are so indeed.

7. They were to be accounted Heathens and Publicans that heard not the Church admonishing them: But sure other Pastors besides Apostles must admonish and be heard: And other Churches besides the Roman, must hold or refuse Communion, as is there signified; either you will (erroneously) have that Text understood of the Universal Church, or else (truly) of a Particular Church. If the former, what's that to the Roman Church, that is but a (corrupted) Part? If the latter, it's no more to the Roman than any other, which are particular Churches also; surely this is plain Truth if you are willing to see.

8. You say, [The Faith of which Believers were, was that of the Romans spread through the World.] Answ. Yes; and it was the Faith of the Ephesians, Philippians, Col…ssians too, and all one: The Romans had not a Faith of their own specifically different from others: Nor did the Holy Ghost by the Apostles ever give one Word of Command to other Churches, to conform their Faith to Rome, or take that Church for their Mistress or Sovereign. These Fancies Pride hath set up against Christ: The Faith of Ierusalem was as much known through the World as that of Rome; and sure you think not that [being known through the World] made them the Rule or Rulers of the World.

9. [Upon Observation, you find this Church shining as a Light, and set as a City on a Hill] And was not Ierusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Ephesus, &c. so too? Sure they were. All faithful Preachers of the Gospel, especially the Apostles, were observable (as such Lights and City) to the World, that wondred at their Doctrine (which is all that Christ there saith); and (as I said) the universal Church is more observable than the Roman Sect: And other particular Churches are and were as Light and Conspicuous as it: And the most conspicuous Church hath from thence no Pretence to be the rule or Ruler of the rest.

p. 22710. You say, [This Church hath been ever triumphant ever Heresies.] Answ. 1. What! when Honorius was by two or three General Councils condemned for a Heretick? Pope Iohn XXII. and Eugenius, as beforesaid, for that and worse, (with many more.) 2. Woe to the Churches, if others had not conquered Heresy better than the Roman Party hath done. 3. And veri…y did you think that. a particular Church is therefore the Rule or Ruler to the rest, because it triumpheth over Heresy?

11. You add [immoveable in Persecutions.] Answ. 1. For they have been the great Persecutors, as Leeches sucking and swell'd with the Blood of Thousands and Ten Thousands of the Saints and Martyrs of Jesus: O the Blood that will be found among them, when the righteous Judge of all the World shall make Inquisition for Blood, among their Massacrees and Inquisitions. 2. Was that Church unmoveable in Persecution, when the Head of it (Pope Marcellinus) offered Incense to Idols? And Liberius subscribed to the Arrians, and against Athenasius? What should I tell you of more, who I perceive are made believe the Crow is white? 3. Again, it is a pitiful Proof of their Rule, to prove them immutable in Persecution. The Church hath many Heads, if every Church or Bishop be its Head that hath stood fast in Persecution.

12. You add, [And always watchful in the Succession of Pastors.] I give you the same Answers: 1. watchful indeed! when their own Church Histories tell us of such Multitudes that came in by Symony or Poison, or other Murder or Violence, that have been Hereticks (as aforeshewd) or Adulterers, Murderers, and such impious Wretches as the Cannons depose; and when Iohn XII. or XIII. was deposed by a Councell for ravishing Maids and Wives at his Doors, and abundance more such Villanies; and Iohn XXII. for worse; and when Eugenius continued the Succession when a general Council bad judged him a Heretick, wicked, deposed, &c. and when they have had such abundance of Schisms, having two, three or four Popes alive at once; and one Schism of Forty Years, in which no Man knew, or knows to this Day which was the true Pope: and when meer Possession is it that must prove their Succession. For (besides these Incapacities) Mr. Iohnson you may see confesseth, that no one way of Election (by Cardinals, People, Emperors, Bishops, Councils, &c.) hath been held or is necessary, nor any Consecration necessary at all, to the being of the Pope. And if a Succession of bare Possession serve, how many Churches have the like? Yea, 2. Constantinople, Ethiopia, Armenia and many other Churches have had a far more regular Succession than Rome; of at least as good. 3. And it's a pitiful Argument, that because a Church hath had a Succession of Pastors, therefore they are the whole Church, and others are no part; or therefore they are the … and Rulers to the rest; or therefore we must be of that Particular Church only. Sur… none denies the Succession of Pastors in England, as to meer possession of the Place, if that will serve the turn.

13. To what you say of being [ … Holy, Catholick and Apostolick and cannot deceive you.] I answer, 1. O dreadful Delusion! that a Church headed with horrid Monsters and not Men, … their own Histories describe a multitude of their Popes, should call it self and such Men Holy! Dare you read what I have written of their Holiness in my Key, chap. 34. Detection 25. or procure them to answer that and the rest there. 2. Are all that are Holy the Rule or Rulers to all others? when you have conversed among the Papists one seven Years, if Delusion leave you Reason and impartiality, you will be more capable of comparing them with your own Parents, and such as you lived amongst here, and judging which were the more holy. 3. As [Catholick] signifieth a Member of the Church Catholick, or such is hold the Catholick Faith, so other Churches are much more such than Rome: As it signifieth [the universal Church] Rome is none such. The same I say of [Apostolick:] Those that are most exactly of the Apostolick Faith, are to be called Apostolick; but Woe to us if we were in that no better than Rome.

14. You may see now what pitiful Grounds you have, for flying into a Pesthouse as a City of Refuge; or for … all the cleanest Rooms in the House of God, and … your self to that Room that hath the most leprous infected Persons in it, as if it were the only Church of God: And for Novelties, O that the whole Case … there be tried! and let that Church that hath introduced most Novelties in Faith and Discipline and Worship be most rejected, as unclean. Were you impartial the several … of our Religion might put that part of the Controversy … you: For our Rule of Religion is only the Holy Scripture; (if you shew … that we misunder stand it, we shall renounce that p. 228misunderstanding: but to misunderstand Scripture, is to make a new Rule; no more than to understand your Councils): And you know the Scripture is no Novelty, but the Eldest. Your Rule is Councils and Papal Decrees, which are new, contradictory, and endless; and you never know when you have all, and when your Faith is at its maturity, and no more to be added, under pretence of Determinations. If you dare read my 24th, 25th, and 35th Decection in my Key, you may see quickly who are the Novelties: One chief Reason of my abhorring Popery, is that I am absolutely certain of its Novelty.

Madam, I must take the freedom to say, That when your Priests dare neither Dispute in your hearing, upon all the provoking offers that I made; not yet will answer the Books that I have written, nor yet give you leave to read them, they have imprisoned your Soul in the partiality of a Sect; and while you are so unfaithful to your self, if you be miserable because you would not make use of the Remedy, and deluded because you are resolved or obliged from coming into the Light, your Friends will have an easier account to make for you before God, than your self; as having discharged their Duty, when you wilfully refuse yours. What you read formerly against Popery, before you doubted or heard their Fallacies, was as nothing I suppose: for I do not think you observed, or remember the stress of the Argumentation which you read. We will have leave to pray for you, though we cannot have leave to instruct you; and God may hear us, when you will not: which I have the more hopes of, because of the Piety of your Parents, and the Prayers and Tears of a tender, Mother poured out for you, and your own well-meaning pious disposition: I have known some (such) Piety bred among us, carried by mistake into their Church; but little initially bred there: Though they pretend that Persons of Charity and the Spirit of God with us, must go to them to receive it. I would I knew whether you can say by true Experience, [I felt no true Love of God in my Soul before; but as soon as I turned Papist, I did, and have now the Spirit of God, and his Image, which before I never had]. Sure the Change of an Opinion about your Pope and Church is one thing; and the Renewing Grace, and Love of God, and Heavenly mindedness is another. I fear not your [Prayers bringing your Delusions, and Idolatry in your Mother's Chamber (as to her self), while she walks uptightly with God: Nothing that I find in your Manual, or the Mass-Book, will ever have that power, For the Liberty of your Religion, which you say, you hope for on the Grounds of the King's Declaration, I have no more to say, but 1. That I never loved Cruelty in any, and it hath increased my version to Popery, that I still observed that lying and uncharitable cruelty, have been the two Hands by which it makes such a bustle in the World. 2. And that i… Italy, Spain, and Austria, Bavaria, &c. would grant Liberty to Protestants, we should see more Equality in the Expectations of it here: but if you get Dominion, as well as Liberty, it will be no Evidence of the Truth and Goodness of your Cause: Our God, our Rule, our Hope, our End and Portion, are the same in the Inquisition, Prison and Flames, as in Prosperity: We have a Kingdom that cannot be moved, and Treasure that none can rob us of: It is for that, and not for Worldly Prosperity, that we renounce all Sensuality, Heresie, Superstition, Idolatry, Tyranny and false Worship, and desire in Pure and Spiritual Worship, with Faith and Patience, to wait for the Coming and Righteous Judgment of the Lord. Who with the Spirit of his Mouth, and the brightness of his Coming, will destroy that wicked One, the Son of Perdition, 2 Thess. 2.

Madam, I rest your Servant for and in the Truth of Christ, Rich. Baxter. London, Ian. 29. 1660.

Since the Writing of this, I am informed that Mr. Iohnson is the Person that you would have had to Dispute for you: and that did (now and formerly) Dispute with Dr. Gunning. If so, I like your Condition or Religion never the better p. 229for your denying it… when you confessed he feared not any injury from me. Our Religion is more a Friend to Truth.

For the honourable Lady Anne Lindsey at Calice, This.

§ 87. When the King was received with the General Acclamation of his People, the Expectations of Men were various, according to their several Interests and Inducements: Some plain and moderate Episcopal Men thought of Reconciliation and Union with the said Presbyterians; yea, and a Reward to the Presbyterians for bringing in the King. The more Politick Men of the Diocesan way, understood that upon the King's Return, all the Laws that had been made in Nineteen Years, viz. since his Father's departing from the Parliament were void, and so that all their Ancient Power, and Honour, and Revenues would fall to them without any more ado; and that they had nothing to do but to keep the Ministers and People in quietness and hopes, till Time should fully do the work. Some few Presbyterians thought the King would favour them as well as others, for stirring up the Soldiers and City to restore him: In London, I found that Mr. Calamy, for his Age and Political Understanding, and Interest in the Earl of Manchester, who kept Correspondence with him in such Matters, was much valued and followed by the London Ministers, as their Guide; and many frequently met at his House; Mr. Calamy took Dr. Reynolds along with him, as one whose Learn… and Reputation would be of use: And he took Mr. Ash along with him, as one whose eminent Holiness and Simplicity made him much loved and honoured by all: And he had been the Earl of Manchester's Chaplain in the Wars, and had concurred with him to bring in the King: These three were the Leading Men that kept Correspondence with the Lords, and had most Interest, seemingly, at Court, as having been most serviceable to them: To them joyned Dr. Bates, Dr. Manton, and most of the City Ministers: But Dr. Seaman and Mr. Ienkins, and some few more, were a little estranged from them, and hardlier, spoken of at Court. Mr. Calamy's Party (and all that brought in the King) were for Consultations with their. Friends at Court, for the preserving of the Churches Interest. Dr. Seaman's Party medled not with them, not as being unwilling, but because the Court did give them no Encouragement.

§ 88. For the Gratifying and Engaging some Chief Presbyterians, that had brought in the King; by the Earl of Manchester's means, (who then being Lord Chamberlain, it belongeth to his place) above Ten or Twelve of them were designed to be the King's Chaplains in Ordinary. Mr. Calamy and Dr. Reynold's were first put in; and then Mr. Ash was importuned to accept it, and then they put me in for one: (Mr. Nath. Newcomen refused it): And then Dr. Spurstow, Dr. Wallis, Dr. Bates, Dr. Manton, Mr. Case, &c. were admitted. (But never any of them was called to Preach at Court, saving Mr. Calamy, Dr. Reynolds, my Self, and Dr. Spurstow, each of us once: And I suppose never a Man of them all ever received or expected a Penny for the Salary of their Places.

§ 89. When I was invited by the Lord Broghill (afterwards Earl of Orery) to meet him at the Lord Chamberlain's; they both perswaded me to accept the Place, to be one of his Majesty's Chaplains in Ordinary.Iune 25. 1660. I was Sworn the King's Chaplain in Ordinary. I desired to know whether it were his Majesty's desire, or only the Effect of their favourable request to him. They told me that it was his Majesty's own desire, and that he would take it as an acceptable furtherance of his Service. Whereupon I took an Oath from the Lord Chamberlain, as a Houshold Servant of his Majesty's, to be true and faithful to him, and Discover any Conspiracy I should know of, &c. And I received this Certificate from him:

THese are to Certifie, That Richard Baxter, Clerk, hath been Sworn and Admitted Chaplain to the King's Majesty in Ordinary, to have and Enjoy all Rights, Profits, and Priviledges thereunto belonging. Given under my Hand this 26th of June, 1660. in the Twelfth year of the Reign of our Soveraign Lord the King.

Ed. Manchester.

p. 230§ 90. When I was with these two Lords on this occasion, I told them what Conferences I had with several Episcopal Men about the Terms of an Agreement or Coalition, and how much it concerned the Interest, both of the King and of Religion, that we might be so united, and what unhappy. Consequences else would follow, and how easie I thought an Agreement with moderate Men would be, and on what Terms Bishop Usher and I had agreed in a little space. A little after the Lord Broghill was pleased to come to me; and he told me, That he had told the King of the Business of a Conference for an Agreement, and that the King took it very well, and was resolved to further it. And about the same time the Earl of Manchester signified as much to Mr. Calamy: So that Mr. Calamy, Dr. Reynolds, Mr. Ash, and my Self went about it to the Earl of Manchester Lord Chamberlain, and after Consultations of the Business with him, he determined of a Day to bring us to the King. Mr. Calamy (to whom …th, I, and I think all the rest, did leave the Nomination of the Persons to be employed) advised that all that were the King's Chaplains of us might be called to the Consultation, and that we four might not seem to take so much upon us without others: (if we did go once without them to the King, which I well remember not, that was all): So Dr. Wallis, Dr. Manton, and Dr. Spurstow, &c. went with us to the King: who with the Lord Chancellour, and the Earl of St. Ai…ons, &c. came to us in the Lord Chamberlain's Lodgings. We exercised more boldness at first, tha… afterwards would have been born: when some of the rest had congratulated his Majesty's happy Restoration, and declared the large hope which they had of a happy Union among all Dissenters by his means, &c. I presumed to speak to him of the Concernments of Religion, and how … we were from desiring the continuance of any Factions or Parties in the Church, and how much a happy Union would conduce to the good of the Land, and to his Majesty's Satisfaction; and though there were turbulent Fanatick Persons in his Dominions, yet that those Ministers and Godly People, whose Peace we humbly craved of him, were no such Persons, but such as longed after Concord, and were truly Loyal to him, and desired no more than to live under him a quiet and peaceable Life in all godliness and honesty; and whereas there were differences between them and their Brethren about some Ceremonies or Discipline of the Church, we humbly craved his Majesty's favour for the ending of those Differences, it being easie for him to interpose, that so the People might not be deprived of their faithful Pa…ors, nor ignorant, scandalous, unworthy Ones obtruded on them! I presumed to tell him, That the People that we spake for were such as were contented with an Interest in Heaven, and the Liberty and Advantages of the Gospel to promote it; and if this were taken from them, and they were deprived of their faithful Pastors, and Liberty of worshipping God, they would take themselves as undone in this World, whatever plenty else they should enjoy: and the Hearts of his most faithful Subjects, who hoped for his help, would even be broken: and that we doubted not but his Majesty desired to Govern a People made happy by him, and not a broken hearted People that took themselves to be undone, by the loss of that which is dearer to them than all the Riches of the World! And I presumed to tell him, That the late Usurpers that were over us, so well understood their own Interest, that to promote it, they had found the way of doing good, to be the most effectual means; and had placed and encouraged many Thousand faithful Ministers in the Church, even such as detested their Usurpation: And so far had they attained their ends hereby, that it was the principal means of their Interest in the People, and the good Opinion that any had conceived of them; and those of them that had taken the contrary Course, had thereby broken themselves to pieces: Wherefore I humbly craved his Majesty's patience that we might have the freedom to request of him, that as he was our lawful King, in whom all his People (save a few inconsiderable Persons) were prepared to Centre, as weary of their Divisions, and glad of the Satisfactory means of Union in him, so he would be pleased to undertake this blessed Work of promoting their Holiness and Concord: (for it was not Faction or Disobedience which we desired him to indulge): And that he would never suffer himself to be tempted to undo the Good which Cromwell or any other had done, because they were Usurpers that did it, or discountenance a faithful Ministry, because his Enemies had set them up: But that he would rather out go them in doing good, and opposing and rejecting the ignorant and ungodly of what Opinion or Party soever: For the People whose Cause we recommend to him, had their Eyes on him as the Officer of God, to defend them in … possession of the helps of their Salvation; which if he were pleased to vouc… them, their Estates p. 231and Lives would cheerfully be offered to his Service. And I humbly besought him that he would never suffer his Subjects to be tempted to have favourable Thoughts of the late Usurpers, by seeing the Vice indulged which they suppressed; or the godly Ministers or People discountenanced whom they encouraged! For the Common People are apt to judge of Governours by the Effects, even by the Good or Evil which they feel: and they will take him to be the best Governour who doth them most good, and him to be the worst that doth them most hurt: And all his Enemies cannot teach him a more effectual way to restore the Reputation and Honour of the Usurpers, than to do worse than they, and destroy the Good which they had done, that so he may go contrary to his Enemies; and so to force the People to cry out, We are undone in loss of the Means of our Salvation: It being a hard matter ever to bring the People to love and honour him, by whom they think they are undone, in comparison of those that they think made them happy, though the one have a just Title to be their Governour, which the other hath not. And again I humbly craved, That no misrepresentation might cause him to believe, that because some Fanaticks have been Factious and Disloyal, therefore the Religious People in his Dominions, who are most careful of their Souls, are such, though some of them may be dissatisfied about some Forms and Ceremonies in God's Worship, which others use: And that none of them might go under so ill a Character with him, by misreports, behind their backs, till it were proved of them personally, or they had answered for themselves: For we that better knew them than those that were like to be their Accuse…s, did confidently testifie to his Majesty on their behalf, that they are resolved Enemies of Sedition, Rebellion, Disobedience and Divisions; which the World shall see; and their Adversaries be convinced of, if his Majesty's Wisdom and Clemency do but remove those Occasions of Scruple in some Points of Discipline and Worship of God, which give Advantage to others, to call all Dissenters, Factious and Disobedient, how Loyal and Peaceable soever. And I humbly craved, That the Freedom and Plainness of these Expressions to his Majesty might be pardoned, as being extracted by the present Necessity, and encouraged by our revived hopes. I told him also, that it was not for Presbyterians or any Party, as such, that we were speaking for, but for the Religious part of his Subjects, as such; than whom no Prince on Earth had better; and how considerable part of the Kingdom he would find them to be. And of what great advantage their Union would be to his Majesty, to the People, and to the Bishops themselves, and how easily it might be procured, 1. By making only things Necessary to be the Terms of Union. 2. And by the true Exercise of Church Discipline against Sin. 3. And not casting out the faithful Ministers that must Exercise it, nor obtruding unworthy Men upon the People. And how easie it was to avoid the violating of Mens Solemn Vows and Covenants without any hurt to any others. And finally, I requested that we might but be heard speak for our selves, when any Accusations were brought against us].

These, with some other such things, I then spake, when some of my Brethren had spoken first. Mr. Simeon Ash also spake much to the same purpose, and of all our Desires of his Majesty's Assistance in our desired Union.

§ 91. The King gave us not only a free Audience, but as gracious an Answer as we could expect: professing his gladness to hear our Inclinations to Agreement, and his Resolution to do his part to bring us together; and that it must not be by bringing one Party over to the other, but by abating somewhat on both sides, and meeting in the Midway; and that if it were not accomplished, it should be long of our selves, and not of him: Nay, that he was resolved to see it brought to pass, and that he would draw us together himself]: with some more to this purpose. Insomuch that old Mr. Ash burst out into Tears with Joy, and could not forbear expressing what Gladness this Promise of his Majesty had put into his heart.

§ 92. Either at this time, or shortly after, the King required us to draw up, and offer him such Proposals as we thought meet, in order to Agreement about Church Government; for that was the main Difference: if that were agreed there would be little danger of differing in the rest: And he desired us to set down the most that we could yield to.

§ 93. We told him, 1. That we were but a few Men, and had no Commission from any of our Brethren to express their Minds: And therefore desired that his Majesty would give us leave to acquaint our Brethren in the Country with it, and take them with us. The King answered, That that would be too long, and make p. 232too much Noise, and therefore we should do what we would our selves only, with such of the City as we would take with us. And when we then professed that we presumed not to give the Sense of others, nor oblige them; and that what we did must signify but the Minds of so many Men as were present. He answered, That it should signify no more; and that he did not intend to call an Assembly of the other party, but would bring a few, such as he thought meet; and that if he thought good to advise with a few of each side, for his own Satisfaction, none had cause to be offended at it.

§ 94. Also we craved that at the same time when we offered our Concessions to the King, the Brethren on the other side might bring in theirs, containing also the uttermost that they could abate and yield to us for Concord, that seeing both together, we might see what probability of success we had. And the King promised that it should be so.

§ 95. Hereupon we departed and appointed to meet from day to day at Sion Colledge, and to consult there openly with any of our Brethren that would please to join with us, that none might say they were excluded: Some City Ministers came among us, and some came not; and Divers country Ministers who were in the City came also to us; as Dr. Worth (since a Bishop in Ireland) Mr. Fulwood (since Archdeacon of Totnes) &c. But Mr. Matth. Newcomen was most constant in assisting us.

§ 96. In these Debates we found the great inconvenience of too many Actors (though there cannot be too many Consenters to what is well done): For that which seemed the most convenient Expression to one, seemed inconvenient to another, and that we that all agreed in Matter, had much ado to agree in Words. But after about two or three Weeks time, we drew up the following Paper of Proposals, which, with Archbishop Usher's Form of Government (called his Reduction, &c.) we should offer to the King. Mr. Calamy drew up most with Dr. Reynolds; Dr. Reynolds and Dr. Worth drew up that which is against the Ceremonies; I only prevailed with them to premise the four first Particulars, for the countenancing Godliness, the Ministry, Personal Profession, and the Lord's Day: They were backward because they were not the Points in Controversy; but yielded at last on the Reasons offered them. About Discipline we designedly adhered to Bishop Usher's Model, without a Word of alteration; that so they might have less to say against our Offers as being our own; and that the World might see that it was Episcopacy it self which they refused; and that they contended against the Archbishop as well as against us; and that we pleaded not at all with them for Presbytery, unless a Moderate Episcopacy be Presbytery: Yet was there a Faction that called this Offer of Bishop Usher's Episcopacy by the Name of the Presbyterians impudent Expectations. I also prevailed with our Brethren to offer an Abstract of our larger Papers, lest the reading of the larger should seem tedious to the King; which Abstract verbatim, as followeth, at their Desire I drew up, and have here after adjoined.