Full and Easy Satisfaction, Part 4 · Chapter 2
CHAP. II. The Papiſts Anſwers to all this confuted.
P.
IT is eaſie to make any cauſe ſeem odious, till the accuſations are anſwered, which I ſhall confidently do in the preſent caſe.
I. All this is but argument from ſenſe: And ſenſe muſt vail to faith: Gods word muſt be believed before our ſenſes.
R.
It is eaſie to cheat fools and children into a dream, with a ſound of empty words: To talk of ſenſes vailing to faith and ſuch like Canting, and inſignificant words, may ſerve turn with that ſort of men. But ſober men will tell you that ſenſe is in exerciſe in order of Nature at leaſt before Reaſon or faith, and that we are Men and Animals before we are Chriſtians: And that the truth and certainty of faith, preſuppoſeth the Truth and Certainty of ſenſe. Tell me elſe, if ſenſe be falſe, how you know that there is a Man, or Pope, or Prieſt in the World? that there is a Book or Voice, or any being? And what poſſibility then have you of Believing?
P.
Gods Revelation is ſurer than our ſenſes?
R.
This is the old ſong over and over. Revelation without ſenſe (to you and ordinary Chriſtians at leaſt) is a contradiction. How know you that God hath any revelations? If by preachers words, How know you that there is a preacher, or a word but by ſenſe? If by books, How know you that there is a book, but by ſenſe?
P.
II. We may truſt ſenſe in all other things, where God doth not contradict it: But not in this One Caſe, becauſe God forbiddeth us.
R.
Say ſo of your Church too, your Pope, Council or Traditions; that we may truſt them in all caſes ſave one or two, in which it is certain that they do lye! And will not any man conclude, that he that can lye in one caſe, can lye in more? If one Text of Gods word were falſe, and you would ſay, You may believe all the reſt ſave that, how will you ever prove it? For the formal object of faith is gone, which is the Divine Veracity; He that can lye once, can lye twice. So if all our ſenſes be falſe in this inſtance, how ſhall we know that they are ever true?
P.
You may know it becauſe God ſaith it.
R.
1. Where doth God ſay it? 2. How ſhall I be ſure that he ſaith it? If you ſay, that it is written in Scripture; beſides that there is no ſuch word; How ſhall I know that all mens ſenſes are not deceived in thinking that there is a Scripture, or ſuch a word in it? If you ſay that the Council ſaith it, How ſhall I know that there is a man or ever was a Council, or a Book in the world? The certainty of Concluſions preſuppoſeth the certainty of premiſes and principles: And the certainty of faith and Reaſoning, preſuppoſeth the certainty of ſenſe: And if you deny this, you deny all, and in vain plead for the reſt.
P.
I muſt believe my ſenſes, where I have no reaſon to disbelieve them. But when God contradicteth them, I have reaſon to disbelieve them.
R.
1. You vainly ſuppoſe without proof that God contradicteth them. So you may ſay, I may or muſt believe the Scripture or an Apoſtle, Prophet or Miracle, except God contradict them. But if God contradict them, he contradicteth his own word or revelation: For we have no other from him, but by man: And if he contradict himſelf, or his own word, how can I believe him, or know which of his words it is thats true, when one is falſe? ſo here: His Natural Revelation is his firſt, neareſt, and moſt ſatisfactory revelation: And if that be ſaid to be falſe by his ſupernatural revelation, which ſhall I believe, and why?
P.
III. You cannot deny but God can deceive our ſenſes. And therefore if he can, will you conclude againſt all faith if once he do it?
R.
1. This is not once; but as oft as God is worſhiped in your Maſs and our Sacrament.
2. God can deceive us without a Lie, but not by a Lie. Chriſt deceived the two Diſciples, Luke 24. by carrying it as if he would have gone further; but not by ſaying that he would go further. God can do that from which he knoweth that man will take occaſion of deceit. God can blind a mans eyes, or deſtroy or corrupt his other ſenſes; he can preſent an object defectively, with unmeet mediums, diſtance, ſite, &c. In this caſe he doth not give us a FALSE SIGN; nor doth he by the Nature of the Revelation oblige any man to believe it: Yea Nature ſaith, that a man is not to Judge by a vitiated ſenſe, or an unmeet medium, or a too diſtant object, or where the due qualification of the ſenſe or object are wanting: Nature there tells us that we are there to ſuppoſe or ſuſpect that we are uncapable of certainty: But Nature obligeth us to believe ſound ſenſes about duly qualified objects; and to take ſenſe for ſound when all the ſenſes of all the men in the world agree; and the object to be a duly qualified object of ſenſe, when all mens ſenſes in the world ſo perceive it. For we have no way but by ſenſe to know what is an object of ſenſe.
3. The queſtion is not what God can do by his power, if he will; but what God will do, and can will to do, in conſiſtency with his perfection, and juſt and merciful Government of the World. And God in making us men whoſe Intellects are naturally to perceive things ſenſible by the means of the perception of ſenſe, doth naturally oblige man and neceſſitate him alſo, to truſt his ſenſes in ſuch perception. And in Nature man hath no ſurer way of apprehenſion: Therefore if you could prove that ſenſe is ordinarily fallible, and Gods revelations to it falſe, yet man were not only allowed but neceſſitated to uſe and truſt it, as having no better ſurer way of apprehenſion: As among many knaves or lyars, I muſt moſt truſt the honeſteſt and moſt truſty, when I have no better to truſt. If I am not ſure that it is a Sun or Light that I ſee, yet I am ſure that I muſt take my perception of it as a Sun or Light as it is; For God hath given me no better. If I am not ſure that my ſight, feeling, taſte, &c. are infallible; yet I am ſure that I am made of God to uſe them; and that I have no better ſenſes, nor a better way to be certain of their proper objects: ſo that I muſt take and truſt them as they are, or ceaſe to be a man.
P.
IV. Chriſts Body and Blood are not ſenſible objects; and therefore ſenſe is no proper judge whether they be preſent.
R.
This is one of your groſs kind of cheats, to change the queſtion. We are not yet come to the queſtion, Whether Chriſts Body and blood be here? And I grant you that ſenſe is no judge of that, any more than whether an Angel be here. But the queſtion is now only, Whether Bread or Wine or ſenſible ſubſtance be here? And of this we have no natural way but by ſenſe to judge.
P.
V. If God ſhould ſay to you [Your ſenſes are in this deceived; Here is no bread or wine or ſenſible ſubſtance] Would you not believe him?
R.
1. Again I tell you, it is a ſuppoſition not to be put: As if you ſhould ſay, [If God ſhould ſay, that part of the Goſpel or word of God is falſe, would you not believe him?] 2. If I know that God telleth me that ſome diſeaſe or falſe medium, &c. deceive me or another in particular, I will believe him: But here it is ſuppoſed, 1. That I have aſſurance that it is God that tells me ſo; 2. And that I have no aſſurance that common ſenſe ſaith the contrary. But if the ſenſe of all the world about a well ſcituate object of ſenſe agree, I will not take that to be Gods word which contradicteth it, till I have ſome evidence which is better and ſtronger than the agreeing ſenſes of all the world to prove it to be ſo. And what evidence muſt that be? I aſſure you ſomewhat greater than the authority of a beaſtly ignorant murdering Pope, and his factious Council.
P.
VI. Carteſius giveth you an inſtance of deception of ſight: We think a ſquare Tower of a Steeple to b… round till we come neer it: And the water ſeemeth to us to move when it is the boat.
R.
Carteſius and you do ſeem to be Confederate, to put out the eye of nature, and tempt the world to Infidelity, if not to Atheiſm. 1. Nature tells us that a diſtan… Steeple or other object, is not perfectly diſcernible and therefore Nature forbiddeth us to judge till w… come neerer. We ſpeak only of objects duly ſcituate an… qualified. 2. The failing of the ſight there is but Negative: It diſcerneth not the corners: but here yo… feign it to be poſitive. 3. As the errour is corrigibl… by nearer approach, ſo alſo by the uſe of other ſenſe… ▪ If a man feel the Tower that is ſquare, he will infallibly perceive it. But if you could prove that this ſquar… Tower is no Tower, no Stone, no Subſtance at all, thoug… all the world ſhould judge otherwiſe that ſee it at th… meeteſt diſtance, and feel it with their hands, then you did ſomething to the purpoſe.
So as to the moving water or banks, 1. Motion is not ſo evident as ſubſtance. 2. Though one ſenſe, through the weakneſs of the brain be inſufficient, the Intellect by the ſame ſenſe about other objects, and by other ſenſes can infallibly diſcern what that one perceiveth not. 3. And if one mans eyes deceive him who is in the boat, ten thouſand mens eyes that ſtand on the firm land, perceive the truth: But in our caſe it is all the ſenſes of all the world, in all ages, about the neereſt object, that agree.
P.
VII. Subſtance is not the proper object of ſenſe, but only Accidents: We ſee, feel, taſte, ſmell the accidents, but not the ſubſtances.
R.
1. If you can name ſome notional ſpeculator or Word-maker that hath ſaid ſo, you think you have authority to renounce humanity by it. Call it proper or not-proper, ſubſtance is the certain object of ſenſe as cloathed with its accidents. Quantity and the res quanta are not two things, but one: And he that feeleth or ſeeth quantity, feeleth or ſeeth the rem quantam. He that ſeeth or feeleth ſhape or figure, ſeeth or feeleth the thing figured. He that ſmelleth odor, ſmel…eth rem odoratam; He that ſeeth Colour, ſeeth the rem coloratam. When to feel the ſuperficies, you feel …he ſubſtance.
2. By this we ſee how by words you will unman mankind. Have you any way of perception of corporal ſubſtances but by ſenſe? Do you know that there is any Earth or Water, or any corporal ſubſtance in the world, or not? If you do, tell us how you know it but by the …erception of ſenſe preſenting it to the Intellect? You know that you muſt thus know it, or not at all.
3. And thus ſtill you would bring men with Scepticiſm to Infidelity. You would teach men, that they that ſaw Chriſt were not ſure that they ſaw him or any ſubſtance at all, but only the accidents, called Quantity, Shape, Colour, &c. They that ſaw Apoſtles, Miracles, Bibles, Councils, were not ſure that they ſaw any more than accidents, &c.
P.
VIII. They that ſaw Angels appearing to them like men, or the Holy Ghoſt deſcending on Chriſt in the ſhape of a Dove, thought they ſaw Men and a Dove: So Moſes Rod did ſeem a Serpent. But their ſenſes did deceive them.
R.
Their ſenſes were not at all deceived: And if by raſh judging they would go beyond ſenſe, and wilfully deceive themſelves, it was their fault. Their ſenſe ſaw the ſhape or likeneſs of a man and dove. The text ſaith, not that the Holy Ghoſt was a dove, but that it deſcended in the likeneſs of a Dove: and their ſenſes perceived no more. And this was true. A man conſiſteth of a ſoul and a body of fleſh and blood: Did ſenſe perceive any of this in the Angels? either, ſoul, fleſh or blood? or any ſuch thing in the appearance of a dove? If I ſee your picture or ſtatue, is my ſenſe deceived if I take it not for a living man? It I ſee it moved, is my ſenſe deceived if I take it not for any other than a moving Image? Nature doth not bind me to take every ſimile to be idem; a corps for a man; an Image for the perſon. It will be fooliſhneſs ſo to take it. But if this Angel, or Dove, had come near to the ſenſes, all the ſenſes, of all ſorts of men, and they had ſeen, and felt, and taſted, and ſmelt, all that are the objects of theſe ſenſes, and yet there had been indeed no viſible, tactible, ſenſible ſubſtance at all, this had been a deception of the ſenſes remedileſs. Chriſt I am ſure appealed to ſenſe, to prove that he had fleſh and blood and was not a meer ſpirit. The ſame I ſay of Moſes Rod: either it was really a Serpent or not; If it was, then it was no deception to judge it ſuch: If not, ſenſe was not at all deceived: For it perceived nothing but the ſimilitude and motion, and thoſe (with the ſubſtance) were certainly there. But if all mens ſenſes, ſeeing, feeling, taſting, &c. had been deceived, and there had been indeed no ſhape of a Serpent, nor any ſenſible ſubſtance at all but Accidents real without any ſubſtance, this had been indeed a deception of the ſenſes. And if God ſo ſubvert mans nature, he will not bind him to do the things which belong to the nature of man to do.
But by all this we may perceive, that there is no end of Controverſies with you to be hoped for: For how is it poſſible to bring any thing to a more ſatisfying iſſue, than when the ſenſes of all the world do as clearly perceive it, as any ſenſible thing can be perceived? If our difference were whether this be Paper, and theſe be Letters; or whether this be a Pen, a Table, yea or a ſubſtance, and I ſhould appeal to the ſenſe of all the World, and yet this will not ſerve to decide the Controverſie; what end, or hope of ending can there be: I will ſooner look for concord with a mad man, than with men that deny the ſenſes of all the World.