A Defense of the Principles of Love, Part 2 · Exception 32 – Exception 40
EXCEPT. XXXII. p. 18. Answered. I said, [The good of nature is lovely in all men as men, even in the wicked, and our enemies; (And therefore let them that think they can never speak bad enough of nature, take heed lest they run into excess;) And the capacity of the good of holiness and happiness is part of the good of nature;] Would you think now that any man alive should find error or heresie here? or should deny this? Yet, saith this brother, This is strange counsel to them that have learned from Scripture, that every imagination is evil, &c. So that we do not see if we will allow the spirit of God to be the best Counsellor, how we can speak bad enough of corrupted nature, as the nature of every man now is.]
Answ. Truly, brother, that man that would not have Professors of Religiousness in England humbled in these times, may find in your book a greater help to cure his error,Whether we can speak bad enough of nature. than in the Debater, or the Eccles. Politician. 1. Your [not bad enough] is sure a hyperbole: For you can speak as bad as the Scripture doth; And if that speak not bad enough, you accuse it of deficiency or error.
2. But I suppose, you meant [not too bad.] What do you think then of such sayings as these following? If you speak truth, then, 1. Mans nature is not capable of grace, or of any amendment or renovation. 2. Nor is it capable mediately of Glory. 3. Mans nature is not Reasonable, nor better or nobler than a bruit. 4. The argument would not be good against murdering of any but a Saint, Gen. 6. 9. Who so sheddeth mans blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the Image of God made he man. 5. No man can grow worse than he is, if he never so much despise God and all his means of grace, and commit every day Adultery, Murder, Treason, &c. 6. Then there are no degrees of evil among natural men, nor is one any worse than another. 7. Then men on earth are as bad as those in hell, and as the Devils. 8. Yea, ten hundred thousand times worse than Devils, and the damned; for so bad you can call them. 9. Then mans nature hateth good formally as good, and loveth evil formally as evil. 10. Then there are in mans nature no testimonies for a deity, or the immortality ofSee Act. 17. and 14. And Rom. 1, and 2. the soul, nor no conscience of good or evil, nor no principles or dispositions to common honesty or civility; or else all these are bad. 11. Then no wicked man is culpable, as sinning against any such innate Light, Law, or Principles. 12. Then natural men are as much void of power to read, consider, or do any good at all, or forbear any sin at all, even hourly murder, thest, perjury, &c. as a stone is void of power to speak or to ascend. And so that all such that are damned, are damned for not doing that which they had no more power to do, and for not forbearing that which they had no more power to forbear than a stone to speak. Or else that all such power it self is evil. 13. Then it may be said, that there is nothing in all the nature of man which is the work of God; or else that Gods work it self as well as mans is evil. That man is not a man, or else it is evil to be a man. 14. Then there is nothing in mans nature that God can in any kind or measure Love; or else that God loveth that which is evil, even with complacence. 15. Then there is nothing in mans nature which we should love in one another; and no man is bound to love, yea, every man is bound perfectly to hate all that are not Saints; or else we must not perfectly hate, but love that which is perfectly evil. 16. Then no man should love his children or friends, for any thing in them till they have grace. 17. Then no natural man should love himself: Or else goodness is not the proper object of rational love. 18. Then if every man be armed with utmost malice against others, and persecute and destroy them, imprison, torment, murder all good men, yea Kingdoms, if he were able, it would be but that which we are naturally no more able to forbear, than the fire to burn, or a stone to be heavy. 19. Then seeing every man ought to look upon every natural man as perfectly evil, and a perfect enemy to all mankind, if they all murder one another, it is but the destroying of such as have no good, either natural or moral, and so are far worse than toads or serpents. 20. Then every natural man hath no reason saving only Gods command, (which it is impossible for him to obey) to forbear the murdering of himself or his children, any more than others. 21. To conclude, Then man is not Bonum Physicum, and in Metaphysicks, Ens & Bonum non convertuntur.
You adde, [And had not Mr. Baxter told us before, that he understood by Flesh, only the sensitive Appetite?]
Answ. This is your 24th. Untruth, and24 Untruth. a meer fiction; And your not nothing the place was no sufficient hiding of it. I have oft in many a writing declared otherwise what I understand by [Flesh.] Viz. 1. The sensitive apprehension, imagination, appetite and passion as it is grown inordinate. And, 2. The understanding, will, and executive power as they are corrupted to a sinful inclination to the objects of sense, and become the servants of the sensitive part, and are turned from the love of God, and things spiritual, unto the fleshly interest.
You proceed, [Now we see one firm reason to deny the least allowance of free will in the things of God, since those that hold it in any degree, are strongly inclined to deny original sin and corruption; which if Mr. B. hath not felt, &c.] Answ. 1. This is plainly assertive of me, and is your 25th. Untruth: I never25 Untruth. Whether there be any freewill. denied it; but have in my Divine Life and other Writings, said more to prove it, than ever you have published. 2. If no degree of free will, even Physical, or Civil, be to be allowed, those that deny us liberty to preach, or if it were to live, do no more in your account, than they are as absolutely necessitated to do, as your pen was to write this. And sure you will alter our course of Justice, and equal murder, man-slaughter, and chance-medley, as they call it: And whereas he that killed a man by the head of his axe flying off unwillingly, had an excuse and refuge from death by the Law of Moses, you will allow every man that killeth another,Whether he that counts all natural men as bad as he can name, will not hate them, and say bad of them without fear of slander? or that hurteth, beateth, or slandereth you, this much excuse as to say, I had no more liberty of will to do otherwise, than I have to hate felicity as such: Or I could no more do otherwise, than your pen can forbear writing when you move it.
And out of this Section of your judgement of humane nature, I ask you, 1. Do you not tell the world here the reason why you write so vehemently against my Principles of Love? What wonder if you should hate all men perfectly whom you count natural, and so perfectly evil? 2. Do you not tell the World, that your purpose is to speak as bad of all us and others whom you account natural, as your tongue can possibly speak, and to take this for no slander, but your duty; seeing you think, you cannot speak bad enough of corrupted nature, as the nature of every man now is? Do you not here tell us, that how bad soever you shall say of us, you never do or can say bad enough? But why are you so angry with me for being and doing so bad, when I have no freedom to be or to do better, any more than the fire not to burn? Yea, when you inferr all mens natures to be incurably evil, and therefore desperate; seeing it was a capacity of holyness which I asserted, when with such abhorrence you contend against my words.
EXCEPT. XXXIII. p. 19. Answered. 1. To be a surly, proud professor is a milder accusation far than your last. 2. But why should a Preacher think that a man must speak against no sin which he is guilty of himself?
EXCEPT. XXXIV. Answered. 1. I understand not what you mean by saying [If they persecute any, they contract a guilt upon all?] If you mean on all the people, then you think you are guilty of persecution: If you mean on all the Magistrates, then the Innocent, even Obadiah that …id the Prophets are guilty of persecuting them. What guilt a publick persons sin bringeth on a body politick as such, is a case that I mean not to dispute with you.
2. You adde, [We think they do a very ill office to Magistrates that insinuate, it is possible for them to persecute some, and yet be innocent.] Answ. If you intimate (as you seem plainly to do) that I have so done, this is your26 Untruth. 26th. Untruth, and worse than a meer untruth.
EXCEPT. XXXV. Answered. 1. Doth it follow that because lawful separation is not from the same uncharitable spirit, that persecution is, therefore unlawful separation is not?
2. You force me to confute you by Instances which yet you abhor to hear. You say [Persecution in no case can consist with love?] Do you think your self that all theWhether no persecution can consist with Love? Common-wealths-men, the Anabaptists, the Separatists, the Independents, or whoever, that had a hand in the order for sequestring all Ministers, that kept not their daies of humiliation and thanksgiving for the blood of Scotland, had no love at all remaining? Or that none of this was persecution? Nor yet the ejecting of them that refused the engagement? Nor yet the imprisonment and banishment of the London Ministers, and the death of Mr. Love and Gibbons? To pass by the Scotch war it self, and all the rest. Do not the Sectaries think that the Presbyterians did or would have persecuted them? And did not the Presbyterians think that the Sectaries persecuted them? Do you think that in the Contentions, with the Donatists, the Novatians, and many other professors of strictness, the parties that persecuted had no Love, and so no true grace remaining? Truly, brother, I like persecution as little as most men living do, and have written more against it than you have done; (forgive this pride) But I cannot be so uncharitable as to condemn all the sects, and parties, and persons, as utterly graceless that have been drawn to persecute one another; When I consider how few sects in the World have escaped the guilt; and how far pievishness and seeming interest hath carried them. You know, I suppose, that the Munster Anabaptists themselves, did not forbear it. The Lutherans have oft persecuted the Calvinists; And the Arminians in Holland thought that the Calvinists persecuted them, and denied them liberty of Conscience: Even the New England godly Magistrates and Ministers are accused of it by the Quakers and the followers of Mrs. Hutchinson and Gortin.
And I would you knew what spirit you are of, whether you have none of the same spirit your self? Would you not have hindered the Printing of this Book of mine, if you could have done it? And then would you not have hindered me from Preaching the same thing, if you could have done it? And is not this to silence that Teaching which is against your judgement? Is not that spirit, which hath all the vehement slanders and revilings which your book aboundeth with, and which earnestly prayeth God to rebuke me, of the same kind think you, as to uncharitableness, with the persecuting spirit? And is this in you inconsistent with all Love?
3. It is your 27th. Untruth, that (after 27 Untruth.many virulent expressions) I am forced to confess, &c. My constant expression of my judgement, and true stating of my sense, is no [forced Confession] of any thing: Much less did I ever confess that no persecution can consist with Love; but have even there said much to evince the contrary.
EXCEPT. XXXVI. Answered. I put ten Questions to convince men of the sin of that separation which I speak against: And all his answer to them, is but this, [He asks many questions about Church-Communion: But he knows the Proverb, and let that answer him.] Answ. But is this impartial enquiring into the truth? Or is this kind of writing fit to satisfie sober men?
EXCEPT. XXXVII. Answered. Your 28th. Untruth is next, [He taketh it ill that 28 Untruth.we should think the Church of Christ to consist but of a few,] When I have no such word or sense; but my self profess there to believe it; and only contradict them that would rob Christ of almost all those few, and make them incomparably fewer than they be.
You adde, [But when he saies, the belief of this is the next way to infidelity.] Answ. That's29 Untruth. Of the fewness of Believers. your 29th. Untruth; I said no such thing; I only admonish you to observe that your abusive lessening the number is your way to Infidelity; And I proved it, which you pass by: He that can believe to day, that Christ came to dye for no more in all the World, than the Separatists are, is like very shortly to believe that he is not the Christ, the Saviour of the World, and the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the World.
When you adde that [I cast reproach on the word of God that affirmeth this expresly,] it is but another of your untruths, and an abuse of the word of God.
EXCEPT. XXXVIII. Answered. When I tell you of some that have run through all sects, and turned Infidels, you30 Untruth. adde another Untruth, that I thus reproach a whole party with the miscarriages of some few, unless you mean by a whole party, all that are of that opinion which I confure: For all the Separatists are not for it. And so what ever opinion in the World I shall gain-say, you may say that I contradict a whole Party, that is, the Party that holdeth that opinion. But, brother, doth every one reproach you, that telleth you of your danger, and would save you from infidelity and hell? If the common people should tell you that you reproach their whole party, when you preach to them of the tendency and effects of sin and error, you would easily see the fault in them. Your talk of a prostituted Conscience I forgive: But if you must not be told of the dangerous tendency of an unsound doctrine, lest you seem to be reproached, you will leave your selves in a sad condition, when your cure is rejected as a reproach.
EXCEPT. XXXIX. Answered. Very good. You grant that [if the same spirit be restored to the same words, they will be as good as they were at the beginning.] But, what spirit was that, brother, that first took up the forms and words that now we speak of?
It was not only a spirit of miracles, tongues, or supernatural inspiration. Why do you say then that [no man can restore the same spirit to them, and we cannot believingly expect that God will do it, because we have no promise for it] It was but the spirit of Illumination and Sanctification; And have not all Christs members this same spirit? Judge by Rom. 8. 9. 1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. 3, 4, 5, toWhether the same spirit may not be restored to the ancient forms. 16. You have here then by consequence given up your whole cause. You grant that [If the same spirit be restored which first used the prayers, and responses and praises of the Liturgie, it is very true, that they may be used now: But the same spirit is in all the truly faithful; Ergo, by all the truly faithful they may be used now.]
EXCEPT. XL. p. 20. Answered. You say, [It is unbecomingly done in Mr. Baxter to compare Cromwell to the Tyrant Maximus, who dedicated a flattering book to his son.]
Answ. 1. Maximus is by most Historians made so good a man, of himself, that I more feared lest many would have made me a praiser of Cromwell by the comparison. 2. He is called a Tyrant, because he was a Usurper; And do you think that Cromwell was not so; when he pull'd down both King, Parliament, and Rump? Nay, Maximus was chosen in England by the Souldiers at a time when pulling down and setting up by Souldiers was too common; and when his predecessors had little better Title than himself: Therefore I pray you judge not too roughly of Maximus: But Cromwell did usurp at a time when the case was otherwise; Our Monarchy was hereditary by the undoubted Constitution and Laws of the Land; and our Parliament by an Act was to sit till they had dissolved themselves, and he had by solemn promises obliged himself to the Parliament as their servant, and had fought against and kill'd the King, among other things, on this pretence that he fought against his Parliament, and would have pulled them down; which thing he actually and finally did himself. Sir, God is not well pleased with the justifying or palliating of these things,, though men may be tempted to do it in faction, and for a divided interest.
3. It is publickly known that I did openly and constantly speak the same things all the time of Cromwell's Usurpation: Why then is it unbecoming now? Among other places, see my book of Infant Baptisme, pag. 147 to 152. and 269, 270, &c. Where the passages spoke with caution are yet fuller than all these that displease you: If Cromwell's party endured me then, cannot you endure me to say one quarter as much now?
4. What if I had done otherwise? Shall such a suffering Preacher as you teach us all, that its unbecoming to Repent?
5. That I dedicated a flattering book to his son, is your 31st. Untruth. For common31 Untruth. Maximus Imperator R…mpub. g…bernahat: Vir omni vitae merito praedicandus, si ei vel diadema non l…git…m… …umultua…te milite impositum repudi…re, vel armis civilibus abstinere licuiss…t; sed m…gnum Imperium nec sine pe…iculo ren…. i, nec sine armis potuit teneri: Sulp. sev…rus Dialog. 3. cap. 7. sense here will discern that you distinguish between the Book and the Dedication. And two books at once I directed to him. The books were one against Popery, and the other against the English Prelacy, and Reordination, and the imposing of the Liturgie and Ceremonies; And there is not one syllable of his son in all the book, save in that Dedication. Nor did I ever see him, speak to him, or write to him else, nor hear from him. But only hearing that he was disposed to peace, and against such turbulent Church-destroying waies as you here plead for, I thought it my duty then to urge him to do that which was right and just.