Catholic Theology Plain Pure Peaceable, Conference 13

Catholic Theology Plain Pure Peaceable · Conference 13

p. 283The Thirteenth Dayes CONFERENCE. Of the great errours, ſin and danger which many Ignorant Profeſſours fall into, on the pretence of avoiding and abhorring Popery. Between S. A Sectary, and P. A Peacemaker.

P.

NEighbour, I underſtand that you are one of thoſe that divulge your deſamatory Lamentations of me as inclining to Popery, for ſome paſſages which I lately Preached in the City: I pray you ſpeak that to my face which you ſo freely ſpeak behind my back.

S.

Sir, the City ringeth of you as one that greatly wrongeth the cauſe of God, And my own ears heard you ſay that the difference between us and the Papiſts is little more than in ambiguous words, and points unſearchable.

P.

And this I hear you are one that have divulged, and ſo it is by ſuch as you that the City is made to ring of it. But if this be an untruth of great aggravation, do you then deſerve the title you aſſume, or are you a fit defender of the truth? or can your Conſcience tolerate you herein? That which I ſaid was this: I diſtinguiſhed the Controverſies between us and the Papiſts into ſuch as depend on a Carnal Intereſt and Mind, and ſuch as do not, but ariſe from the meer difficulty of the ſubject: In the former ſort I ſaid our difference is very great, and like to be ſo; and ſuch are the differences about their Papal power and Church ſtate, their Government, and worſhip as fitted hereunto; and many doctrines, as that of Purgatory, Indulgences, Auricular Confeſſion abuſed by them, Tranſubſtantiation, &c. But the other ſort of doctrinals are made by many the matter of greater difference than there is cauſe; ſuch as I named, Predeſtination, Providence, the cauſe of ſin, mans power, and fre-will, Grace, certainty of ſalvation, and I might have added, Juſtification and Merit as held by their Church and moſt of the Schoolmen: not that here is no difference indeed; but that long ſtudy hath made me certain that it is more in words than is commonly conceived: And this Truth is fit to be ſpoken though the miſtaken be offended by it. Yea in theſe matters the Papiſts differ among themſelves as much as with us.

Dare you deny that theſe were my words? If you do you are a falſifier.

p. 284S.

When you ſpeak ſo clowdily, who can remember every word you ſay?

P.

Is not this plain Engliſh? Peruſe it and conſider. And dare you carry falſe reports abroad on pretence of pious zeal, and then ſay, You cannot remember? Why would you report that which you cannot remember? Why would you not ſtay till you had helpt your memory, by ſpeaking with me or ſome one that could have informed you? But are not we in a hard caſe with ſuch hearers as you, when we muſt look to be as oft belyed as your underſtanding or your memory faileth? becauſe your looſe Conſcience faileth with them: which is very oft.

S.

I am not alone in judging thus of you; City and Countrey ring of it: what company can one come into where you are not talkt of? I daily hear good people lament you: and the beſt they ſay is, that God uſeth to let thoſe men fall fouly in ſome things who have been extraordinarily ſerviceable, that men may not idolize them.

P.

They that know me but half as well as I know my ſelf, will know that I have enough to abaſe me before God and man: But will that warrant a courſe of lying and backbiting in others? Do you partly receive, and partly make and propagate falſe reports, and then plead the Commonneſs for your excuſe? He that ſet London on fire might ſo have excuſed himſelf becauſe the flame was common when he had cauſed it. The effect and proſpering of your ſin ſhould humble you, and not ſeem to juſtifie you. But yet I muſt tell you that Backbiting Sectaries are not the greater part of London: There are many ſober people that are aſhamed of your ſin and folly.

I will make this friendly motion to you: Inſtead of backbiting, Let us here to one anothers faces, ſo friendly admoniſh each other of that which we take to be ſin, as may help to bring each other to repentance: And do you begin, Tell me of all the evil that you know by me.

S.

I have nothing to accuſe you of, but that your Principles are too large, and you vent them too freely, and thereby you harden Papiſts, and diſhonour the Proteſtant cauſe, and wrong free grace, and the Righteouſneſs of Chriſt, by your doctrine of Juſtification and mans Righteouſneſs; And by coming ſo near Conformity, you grieve the hearts of good people, and may bring perſecution on thoſe that cannot do as you can.

P.

1. About Conformity, forbear me here, for I muſt deal with you of that by it ſelf elſewhere.

2. As to my doctrine of Juſtification, if I have not fully juſtified it elſewhere, I ſhall not now on this occaſion.

3. But whether you or I be righter about Popery, let us now debate. Have you read my Safe Relig. and my Key for Catholicks, and my Treatiſe of the Certainty of Chriſtianity without Popery, and my late Dialogue, and my Treat. againſt Johnſon of the Viſibility of the Church? and others againſt Popery?

S.

I have ſomewhat elſe to do than read all your Writings.

P.

Why have you not then ſomewhat elſe to do than hear me, and backbite me, and judge of things which you have not leiſure to underſtand? Do we not ſtill deal on hard terms with ſuch men as you? that neither ſpeaking nor writing can make them know our minds? Have all your party that revile me, done more each one againſt Popery than I have done?

But if this be all that you have to call me to repentance for, I have a great deal more to ſay againſt my ſelf; And now I will deal faithfully with you: p. 285I beſeech you try, whether it be not neceſſary that you ſpeedily repent of all theſe following ſins:

1. What a ſhame is it for one that would be taken for a Religious man to be ſo Ignorant as you are, and no better know the truth of Chriſt, from the errors of Popery, than (it appeareth) you do?

2. What a ſin for one ſo Ignorant to be ſo raſh and bold in venturing to judge of that which he underſtandeth not?

3. What a ſin is it for one ſo Ignorant to be ſo proud of his pretended knowledge, as to venture to defame his Teachers for contradicting him in his er…oneous conceits? Have you ſtudied theſe things as long and hard as I have done? or are you ſure that you have done it more in partially; and that God hath illuminated you ſo much more, as your confidence would import?

4. What an unchriſtian crime is it, to make lyes and carry them abroad of your Teachers, and then be forced to confeſs, that it was the failing of your memory as to what you heard?

5. What a ſin is it to be a backbiter? Neither you, nor any one of your quality did ever come to my face either to know my meaning, or to hear what I had to ſay, nor to reprove my ſin, or convince me of my error.

6. Is not unrighteouſneſs a ſin, in your judging and reports, as it is in publick Judgements? Should not a man be heard before he be condemned? eſpecially a Miniſter of Chriſt?

7. What a ſin is it to receive falſe reports from others, and encourage backbites whom you ſhould rebuke and frown away?

8. What a heinous ſin is it thus to deſtroy the Hearers ſouls, and as thoſe that have the Plague, to carry your infection from houſe to houſe, and kill mens Love, and breed in them falſe conceits and bitter injurious thoughts of others?

9. What a ſin is it with ſuch unthankfulneſs to requite Chriſts ſervants that ſpend their dayes, and ſtrength, and eſtates in labouring for mens good? When I take none of your money, when I have theſe twelve years preached (as I had liberty) freely without hire; when I had been put on to plead the Non-conformiſts Cauſe in the coſtlieſ… circumſtances, and to bear the greateſt odium for it; when I was I think the firſt that was ſilenced on ſuch accounts; when I have been twelve or fourteen years deprived of all Eccleſiaſtical maintenance; when I refuſed a Biſhoprick▪ when I have laboured in Writings and other duties to the conſuming of my fleſh in daily and hourly pain and weakneſs, and now look every Sermon for my laſt, and am ready to appear before my Judge: to be to the very laſt thus calumniated and reviled by pieviſh Sectaries, would be a ſad reward, were your favour my reward! But is this juſt or grateful? or ſhall the unrighteous and unthankful be accounted the beſt men? I know I could have been one of the higheſt in your favour and applauſe, if I would have humoured and followed you: But I had rather that God ſhould keep me from your honour, than buy it at ſo dear a rate.

10. And is it no ſin thus to hinder the ſucceſs of our labours, by making us odious or ſuſpected by them that ſhould profit by us?

11. Is it not hypocriſie, to cry out of the Biſhops for ſilencing us, when you ſhew that you would fain do it your ſelves? Would not you ſilence me now if it were in your power? Yea, I doubt not but when I die, ſome of you will rejoyce and ſay, that God did it in judgement on me.

p. 28612. And thus to make diviſions among Chriſtians, that ſhould hold the Unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, will one day be known to be a ſin.

13. And ſo it is hereby to harden the enemies of Religion, by your clamours and the diviſions which you cauſe; and tempt them to hate both you and us.

14. And it is worſt of all to father all this on God, and Truth and Godlineſs, and uſe ſuch holy Names for ſo bad a Cauſe.

15. And it aggravateth your ſin, that you take no more notice of all thoſe plain and terrible Scriptures, which as openly condemn your ſin, as the ſin of Drunkards or Swearers is condemned: were it but James 3. it would leave you utterly without excuſe.

16. Yea, and that you can ſee the ſins of ſuch Drunkards and Swearers, yea, and ſee the Mote in the eyes of one that doth but uſe a Form or Ceremony which you diſlike, and cannot ſee theſe Beams in your own. For all theſe ſins I admoniſh you preſently to repent.

S.

Who is it that is cenſorious? you or I? It is ſin with you to open your ſin.

P.

I deſired you to open it: But ſee now how hard a work Repentance is, when in a Profeſſor ſuch ſins as theſe will not be confeſſed.

S.

Well, come to the cauſe it ſelf: Is it I or you that comply with Papiſts?

P.

I make that the buſineſs of this Conference with you: It is not you only, but ſome wiſer men than you, that look ſo much at the evil of Popery, that they forget the evil of an unrighteous oppoſition, and of the other extream: And they do as one that by labouring to cure another of a Dead Palſie, caſteth himſelf into a Phrenſie or a Feaver: or like one that to avoid a Carrion that ſtinketh in the Ditch, doth run himſelf into the Ditch on the other ſide the way. Gods Truth muſt be vindicated only by Truth; and Wiſdom is beſt juſtified of her own children by Wiſdom. God hath no pleaſure in fools, no… doth his Glory need our lye. There is a time when the Devil will ſeem to be againſt error and ſin (and ſo againſt Popery): but it is in a way which ſhall promote it: which commonly is by ill-doing and over-doing. I tell you plainly, the Cauſe of Truth and Reformation gets nothing by ſome men that ſe…m moſt zealous for it. For an unſtudied half-wiſe honeſt Miniſter or private man to believe falſe reports of the Papiſts, and to miſ-ſtate Controverſies, and to rail on them on ſuch ſuppoſitions, and to mix many errors of his own in his oppoſition, and to backbite thoſe that know more of the matter, as ſymbolizing with the Papiſts, this is certainly ſerving the Devil, how honeſt ſoever the inſtruments in the main may be.

S.

I perceive that you have an aking tooth at the Proteſtant Divines as well as at me: Are you wiſer than all they? or are you not warping to Grotianiſm which you have written againſt?

P.

Among the Proteſtant Divines there are well ſtudied, knowing, ſolid men, that underſtand what they ſay, (ſuch as Biſhop Uſher, Dr. Chaloner, Dr. Field, Dr. White, Chillingworth, Morton, Davenant, Andrews, and many ſuch; and abroad, Camero, Dallaus, Blondell, Drelincourt, Amyra…dus, Placaeus, V…ſſius, Junius, Martinius, Crocius, Bergius, Bucer, Muſculus, Melanchthon and many others:) and there are ignorant, hot-headed, ſelf-conceited men, that rave in extreams, (as Gallus, Ambſdorſius and their companions did againſt Georg. Major, for ſaying [Bona opera ſunt neceſſaria ad ſalutem]). And it is no wonder, that the beſt Churches have many ſuch; and if ſuch are the forwardeſt to judge and cry down p. 287all that are not as ignorant as they. And in our times, the World is more beholden to the fewneſs of buyers, and the wit of Bookſellers refuſing to Print them, than to the humility or modeſty of ſuch men, that the Shops do not abound with ſuch furious Writings, …s Mr. Brownes Antichriſtomachus, Mr. Danvers, Mr. Bagſhaw, &c. and that Antichriſt, Antichriſt, is not made in Print the Univerſal Conſutation of ſober truth, as commonly as it is bawled out in words.

S.

Is it not ſafeſt to get far enough from Antichriſt and Popery? Your ſtudy is to teach men how near they may come to ſin without ſin; and how to dance about the brink of Hell: For my part, I will be one of them that ſhall come out of Babylon, and partake not of her ſins, nor touch the unclean thing, and that keep their garments undefiled; and not one that like you is grown Lukewarm by being over-fond of Unity and Peace: You will follow Grotius it's doubt at laſt.

P.

Uncleanneſs muſt not be touched, nor ſin partaked of, nor lukewarm indifferency to ſin entertained; we muſt go as far from ſin as we can. But, poor deceived ſouls run into it, under the conceit of going far enough from it, and ſometimes into greater than they avoid.

S.

What ſin have ſuch Proteſtants run into in their oppoſition to Popery?

P.

I will tell you ſome, I. In Doctrine: and II. In the conſequent… and practice.

I. It is more than one injudicious Proteſtant Divine that hath printed ſuch unfound Opinions as theſe in oppoſition to Popery for want of judgement.

1. While they plead againſt the Romiſh falſe Tradition, they have weakned faith, by denying that neceſſary uſe of Hiſtorical Tradition of Scripture which Chriſtianity doth ſuppoſe: (As others have denyed the neceſſary uſe of Reaſon unto faith.)

2. They have wronged the Church by undervaluing the Tradition of the Creed and the Eſſentials of Chriſtianity, by many means beſides the Scriptures.

3. They have much wronged the Proteſtant Cauſe by denying the perpetual Viſibility of the Church, and almoſt given it away, as I have ſhewed againſt Johnſon.

4. And their d…nyal of its Univerſality, and confining it long to the Waldenſes and ſuch others, is an exceeding injury to the Church and Truth.

5. And ſo is ſome mens over-doing as for the Scripture, who teach men that they can be no ſurer of Chriſtianity, (as delivered many years in Baptiſm before any of the New Teſtament was written,) than they are that there is no one error in all the Bible, by the careleſneſs of the Scribes and Printers, nor any humane frailty in the phraſe.

6. And alſo their feigning the Scripture perfection to conſiſt, in its being a particular determiner of all thoſe circumſtances of which it is only a general rule.

7. And thoſe that make every form of prayer, or Ceremony to be Antichriſtian.

8. And thoſe that make Juſtifying faith to be a certainty or full perſwaſion that we are elected and pardoned and ſhall be ſaved.

9. And thoſe that ſay, that To believe that I am juſtified is to believe Gods Word, or …ides divina; either (as moſt ſay) becauſe one of the premiſes is in Scripture, or (as excellent Chamier ſaith) becauſe the Witneſs of the Spirit is Gods Word.

p. 28810. And thoſe that ſay All that have true faith, are ſure they have ſuch: (as Keckerman and too many others.)

11. Thoſe that deny Chriſt to have made any Law.

12. And thoſe alſo that aſſert Imputation of Chriſts Righteouſneſs in that ſenſe which I have proved to ſubvert the Goſpel.

13. And thoſe that deny Faith it ſelf to be Imputed for righteouſneſs.

14. And thoſe that deny that there is any perſonal Evangelical Righteouſneſs in our ſelves that is any way neceſſary to our Juſtification.

15. And thoſe that lay all the ſtreſs of Faiths Juſtifying us on the notion of Inſtrumental efficiency.

16. And thoſe that ſay we are Juſtified by no act of faith, but its receiving Chriſts Righteouſneſs; and all other acts of faith are the Wor…s by which none is juſtified.

17. And thoſe that ſay, that Evangelical obedience is not meritorious as it ſignifieth only Rewardable in point of Paternal Evangelical Governing Juſtice, and as all the antient Fathers uſed that word; becauſe we merit not by Commutation.

18. And thoſe that ſay, that man hath no free-will (at all, of any ſort) to ſpiritual good.

19. And thoſe that ſay, that Chriſt was in Gods reputation, the greateſt ſinner, or wicked man, Adulterer, Murderer, hater of God in all the world.

20. And thoſe that ſay, that he ſuffered in ſoul Pain altogether of the ſame kind with thoſe that the damned ſuffer in H….

21. And thoſe that in oppoſition to the Popiſh Government, Confeſſion, Auſterities, and ſeveral acts of Worſhip, do run into the con…rary extream, againſt due Government, Confeſſion, Auſterities, &c. And thoſe that from dark uncertainty or à minus noti… do gather many concluſions againſt known truth.

I paſs by ſuch as the Antinomians, who as I have proved▪ ſubve…t the Goſpel it ſelf, by running into the contrary extream from Pope….

S.

You are as …ad as Parker, or the Debate-maker, that th…s l…y ſ…ndal on the Reformers themſelves. If theſe were their faults, you … cover them, and not open them. This had been enough for … Romiſh R…bſhakeh.

P.

You know not what it is that you ſay. This is to a…ho… … tance, and to preferr the honour of man before the honour of God: yea, to let the ſhame be caſt on Gods Word and Religion, leſt the erro… of … be ſhamed. But all men are lyars (that is, fallible) and God is … ▪ He that confeſſeth and forſaketh his ſin ſhall have mercy, but he that hideth it, ſhall not proſper. Are there not with you, even with you alſo (ſaith the Prophet) ſins againſt the Lord our God? Why hath God recorded in Scripture the faults of ſo many of his ſervants, and fome… them to ſuch open Confeſſions? Did Paul wrong Peter and …, Gal. …? or the Miniſtry when he ſaid, All ſeek their own thing…, and no…e the things of Jeſus Chriſt? or did the Evangeliſts wrong all …he Diſciples, by ſaying, that They all forſook him and fled? or James all C… ſtians, ſaying In many things we offend …ll? I think the Prou… Impe…itence of many Profeſſors, that will not confeſs ſin, nor endure to be … led to it, leſt Religion be diſhonoured, is that great diſhonour to Religion which God hath been long puniſhing us for. When ſuch evils have … held and done as our age hath known, either it muſt be ſaid that they are not evil, or that they are▪ If we deny it, and ſay they are God … and m…ns duty, we feign God, and Scripture, and Religion to be for all that evil, (which is to blaſpheme). If we ſay It is evil, we muſt ſa… that p. 289we are the guilty cauſes of it. God will teach Miniſters and Profeſſors inſtead of Phariſaical ſelf-juſtification, to take open ſhame to themſelves that he and Religion may be vindicated, before he will deliver us from ſhame and ſorrow: And he that will ſave his honour againſt this ſhame ſhall loſe it, and he that will thus loſe it and caſt it away ſhall moſt effectually recover it.

S.

I think you would fain perſwade us, that Proteſtants are as bad as Papiſts, and perſwade us into the Roman Tents.

P.

That is but your pieviſh inference: But little do you know how much of Popery it ſelf you have, while you think that you hate it more than I.

S.

You would make me believe any thing, if you make me think that I have more of Popery than you.

P.

1. Do not you agree with them in conſining the Catholick Church to one Sect or Party? only They to their Sect, and You to yours.

2. Do you not agree with them in your vehement condemnation of diſſenters? only they excommunicate and burn them, and you deny them your communion and reproach them: But their charity extendeth much further than yours, and you condemn more diſſenters than they do.

3. Do you not agree with them in being ſuperſtitious, by a great deal of ſelf-made Duty and Sin? only theirs and yours are not in the ſame things: They ſay, Touch not, taſte not, handle not ſome things, and you other things, while you ſay that God hath forbidden forms of prayer, and many lawful circumſtances of Worſhip, and other ſuch like.

And I now intreat you and all the ſervants of Chriſt ſoberly to conſider, whether a wild injudicious calling ſound Doctrine and Practices Antichriſtian, and uſing that name as a bugbear for want of ſolid argument, and an injudicious running from Papiſts into the contrary errors and extreams, hath not brought on many the guilt and miſery which in all the following particulars I ſhall open to you.

1. Such men have corrupted the Goſpel of Chriſt, by bringing in many doctrinal errors, and opening a door to the heretical to bring in more. Almoſt all the Libertine Antinomian errors, have come in by an injudicious oppoſition to Popery, as if they were the Vindication of Election, Free Grace, Chriſts Righteouſneſs, Juſtification by faith, Perſeverance, againſt mans Works and Merits: And it is not to be denyed, that the ſaid Libertine Doctrines do more contradict the Doctrine of the Goſpel, even Chriſtianity it ſelf, than the Doctrine of the Papiſts about the ſame ſubjects do. I know this to be true, who ever is offended at it: Aquinas, Scotus, Gabriel, Bellarmine, Pererids, Tolet, yea, Vaſquez, Suarez and Molina are not near ſo erroneous about Juſtification, Grace, Faith and good works, as Richardſon, Randal, Sympſon, Towne, Criſpe, Saltmarſh, and many ſuch others are. Yet how many Religious people have I known, that have gloried in theſe errors as the ſweet diſcoveries of free grace!

2. Such erroneous extreams in oppoſition to Popery have greatly diſhonoured the Reformers, and Reformation. When it cannot be denyed but ſuch and ſuch errors are found among them, it maketh all the Reformation ſuſpected: as Illyricus his Doctrine of the ſubſtantiality of ſin, and the non-neceſſity of Good works to ſalvation, and as Andr. Oſianders Doctrine of Juſtification by Gods eſſential righteouſneſs did; and as many harſh paſſages in Piſcator and Maccovins do, to name no more beſides thoſe before named. What a ſtir have our later Divines ſtill with the Papiſts in defending ſome few harſh ſayings of Luther, Calvin and Beza about the Cauſe of ſin, and ſome ſuch ſubjects? But downright errors cannot be defended.

p. 2903. Your injudicious oppoſition greatly hardneth the Papiſts, and hindereth their conviction: When they find ſome errours in your writings, (as that all are bound to believe that they are elected and Juſtified; that this is the ſenſe of the Article, I believe the forgiveneſs of ſin; that this is ſides divina, that we are Reputed of God to have fulfilled all the Law of Innocency habitually and actually in and by Chriſt, &c.) and then when they read that ſuch men lay the great ſtreſs of the Reformation upon theſe, as the very cauſe of our rejecting Rome, and the artiouli ſtantisaut cadentis Eccleſiae, what can more harden them to a confidence that we are hereticks and that they are in the right? As I have known the perſons that had been in danger of turning Papiſts, if the errour of Tranſubſtantiation and ſome few more, had not been ſo palpable, as to reſolve them, Theſe men cannot be in the right; even ſo many Papiſts were like to have turned Proteſtants, had they not met with ſome notorious errours in ſuch injudicious adverſaries.

4. Yea we too very well know that your extremities have occaſioned divers Proteſtants to turn Papiſts: Yea ſome Learned men, and ſuch as have zealouſly run through many Sects in oppoſition to Popery themſelves; (And ſome of my acquaintance that went as far in the profeſſion of Godlineſs as moſt that I have known.) They have been ſo confounded to find partly palpable errours taken for ſound doctrine, and ſound doctrine railed at as Popery, and partly to ſee the ſhameful diverſity and contentions of all the Sects among themſelves, that it hath drawn them to think that there is no proſperity of the Church and Godlineſs to be expected but where there is unity, and Concord; and no Unity and Concord to be hoped for among Proteſtants; And therefore they muſt return for it to Rome: And Grotius profeſſeth that it was this that moved him, to go ſo far towards them as he did. And I muſt needs ſay, that I believe from my very heart, that the ſhameful diviſions, contentions, backbitings, revilings, cenſurings, perſecutions, errours and ſcandals of Proteſtants among themſelves, is a far ſtronger temptation to turn men to Popery, than any thing that is to be found among the Papiſts to turn men to it: and that many are thus driven to it, that would not have been drawn.

5. And by calling good and lawful if not neceſſary things, Antichriſtian and Popiſh, you have made Religious people ridiculous and a ſcorn to many that have more wit than Conſcience; as if we were all ſuch humorous Novices, as would run mad by being frightned with the name of Antichriſt: And as they deride you for it as Fanatical, ſo they the leſs fear Popery it ſelf.

6. And by theſe extremities you corrupt the peoples minds with a wrathful and contentious kind of Religion; which …s eaſily taken up in compariſon of a holy and heavenly mind. When you ſhould kindle in them a zeal for Love, and Good Works, the mark of Gods peculiar people, you are killing Love and kindling wrath: Gunpowder may be ſet on fire without ſo much blowing of the coal: Long experience aſſureth us that a ſiding angry contentious zeal is eaſily kindled, but a lively faith, a confirmed hope of Glory, a Love to God and man, needs more ado.

S.

Stay a little in the midſt of your reproofs; Would you perſwade us to a Union with Antichriſt, and to live in Love and Concord with the members of the Devil? Are not the Papiſts ſuch? Have you no way to reconcile us to Rome, but by pleading for Love and peace? Muſt we not contend earneſtly for the faith once delivered to the Saints, and not be Lukewarm to the doctrines of Jezabel that ſeduceth the people of God to Idolatry?

p. 291P.

1. Were you perſwadable I would perſwade you, not ignorantly to contradict the truth of God, and call it Popery; nor to ſet up certain falſe or incongruous notions, and pretend them great and neceſſary verities; nor to make a ſtir for ſome odd unſound opinions, received upon truſt from thoſe that you thought beſt of, and to buzz abroad ſuſpicious of Popery, againſt thoſe that have more underſtanding and conſcience than to imitate you; nor to fly in the faces of Gods faithfulleſt ſervants (much leſs to uſe your tongues to backbite them) as if they were Antichriſtian, becauſe they are not as ſhamefully ignorant and deceived as you are: And I would perſwade you to ſtudy and digeſt well what you take the boldneſs to ſpeak againſt; and not to talk confidently and furiouſly againſt that which you never underſtood: for it is the fool that rageth and is confident, Prov. 14. 16. I ſhould think I had not a greater work than to build twenty ſuch Cities as London or to conquer all the Turks dominions, if I could but perſwade all that ſeem Religious to bridle their Tongues, leſt their Religion be in vain, and inſtead of raſh and buſie talking of things that they underſtand not, and of raſh judging and reviling men wiſer than themſelves, but to SUSPEND their JUDGEMENTS, and ſtay till they have taken time to hear, read or conſider what is neceſſary to the true underſtanding of the caſe, and not to ſhame themſelves, and abuſe their brethren, and God himſelf, and wrong and corrupt the hearers minds, by railing at that to day, which if they ſtudy hard and grow wiſer, they will afterwards believe themſelves.

2. And I would not have you think it good or lawful to bely a Papiſt, and ſay that he holdeth what he doth not; nor to pretend that they differ in the ſenſe and matter, when the difference is but in the words: and then to think that all your injuſtice and falſe-dealing is excuſeable, if you do but ſay that ſome Godly Divines, or Religious people, ſaid ſo before you, and you can prove out of their writings that you are not the firſt that did the wrong: Nor would I have you charge the unmeet or unſound expreſſions, of every ignorant, railing Papiſt, on all that are called Papiſts, no nor on all their Church: And therefore I would have you well read and underſtand their writings before you venture too far in your accuſations. You would not be otherwiſe dealt with your ſelf; nor have the Proteſtant Religion (or the Non-conformiſts) charged with every unſeaſoned or unwarrantable ſentence, of the many weak Writers that have ſelf-eſteem enough to obtrude their ſentiments upon the world. The Papiſts have too many errours, and too great: you need not feign them to be more or greater than they are.

3. And I would perſwade you not to take all that live under the Roman power and are called Papiſts to be of the ſame mind or rank, nor to damn any more than you are ſure Chriſt will damn: but to conſider what the Judicious Dr. Field undertaketh (and B. Morton in his Apologie hath performed) even to prove that there are no conſiderable doctrines which conſtitute the Proteſtant Religion as different from Popery, which were not before Luthers Reformation defended by the greateſt Doctors in the Church of Rome, though the defenders of them were diſcountenanced and born down by the Papal faction by power and violence.

4. And I would perſwade you to believe that the name of Antichriſt will not warrant you to lay by that Love and meekneſs and Juſtice which is due to mankind, yea and which heathens uſed to each other, and which you would have all men uſe to you: The ſervant of the Lord muſt not ſtrive, but be gentle to all men, apt to teach, patient (or forbearing,) in meekneſs inſtructing oppoſers, 2 Tim. 2. 24, 25. and if it be poſſible, as much as in you lyeth, you muſt live peaceably with all men, Rom. 12. 18. and therefore p. 292follow peace with all, Heb. 10. 14. At leaſt make Conſcience of raſh calumniating and ſlandering the worſt.

5. And as to the texts that you referr to, I wiſh you better to ſtudy them, and you will find that they were not ſpoken of the Papiſts then, but of the Hereticks or Sectaries of that age: It was the Nicolaitans and ſuch others that are likened to Jezebel, as the text ſheweth you: And it was ſuch as they, called Carpocratians, and Gnoſticks that denyed or ſubverted the faith which Chriſtians were earneſtly to contend for: And we would have you zealouſly defend Chriſtianity, without Lukewarmneſs: but not to abuſe the world ſo much, as to …eign all your dreams or opinions to be Chriſtianity or the faith.

And ſo I ſtill ſay that though Popery muſt be faithfully rejected, yet your over-doing and miſtaking way of oppoſition to it, endangereth the peoples ſouls, by tempting them into factious wrath and unrighteous calumny, and deſtroying that Love and common juſtice which is due to Papiſts themſelves, and much more to thoſe Proteſtants whom you ignorantly calumniate.

7. Yea I add, that hereby you make falſe glaſſes for the people to ſee their own faces in, and cheat poor ſouls, with a carnal ſort of Religion and zeal, as if it were that which is true and ſaving. Men are loth to know that they are indeed unholy: and therefore will be pretending to ſome kind of Religion to cheriſh their preſumption, for want of …ounder comfort: And O how many thouſands are there that think that they are Godly perſons, becauſe they can riſe up in the dark with confident reproach againſt this or that opinion or practice as coming too near to Popery! O that they hated all that cometh too near to a fleſhly, worldly mind and life! or to ſelfiſhneſs and pride and overvaluing an ignorant underſtanding! It's pittiful to hear how many learned Preachers in Germany among the Lutherans, live in drunkenneſs, and worldlineſs, and how little of the ſpirit of holineſs appeareth in their Sermons or lives, and how they make up all by a …ervent preaching againſt the Papiſts and the Calviniſts. Were it as eaſie to get faith, hope and Love, as to talk againſt other mens opinions, or to call that Popery which is contrary to your raw conceits, how happy were it for ſuch men! But you little think that they that have a Religious zeal for forms and ceremonies, and they that are as zealous againſt them, may be of the ſame ſpirit and temper of Religions, being both but Formaliſts, though ones formality work for, and the others againſt ſuch kind of things. And you are not aware that If you are wiſer than thoſe that you talk againſt, you muſt ſhew it by your works and meekneſs of wiſdom, and that the envious wiſdom and zeal which is not from above, but is earthly, ſenſual and diabolical, may work as well by crying down other mens opinions as Popiſh and Antichriſtian as in other wayes.

8. And under pretence of zeal againſt Popery, you turn the peoples minds from the great matters of their ſalvation, which need their daily and moſt diligent ſtudy, and their moſt intenſe affections and regard: And ſo you ſtarve our and deſtroy true piety, by calling off the peoples minds to Controverſie: And when they ſhould be edifying one another in the comfortable hopes of another world, they are backbiting one another with accuſations of Popery.

9. Yea Preaching it ſelf is thus corrupted: And that which is appointed of God to be the means of mens edification in Love and holineſs, (Eph. 4. 14, 15, 16.) is turned to be the bellows of keeping hot the furnace of wrath and injury.

p. 29310. Yea Prayer which ſhould be moſt holy is thus alſo corrupted and prophaned by too many; while they boldly beſpeak the holy and dreadful God againſt one another, and againſt thoſe things, which their ignorance miſrepreſenteth to themſelves.

And ſo Gods ordinances are made a ſnare to ſouls, which are appointed for their ſalvation: and the man that can kindle in his hearers a tranſporting paſſion againſt this or that opinion or form as Popiſh, is cryed up for an excellent preacher, and ſeemeth to edifie the people while he deſtroveth them.

11. And by this means you ſeem to juſtifie the Papiſts lyes and calumnies againſt the Proteſtants, by doing as they do: They belye Luther, Zuinglius, Calvin, Beza, &c. with juſt ſuch intentions and ſuch a kind of zeal, as ſome over doing Sectaries belye them. And is it bad in them and good in you?

12. You teach the people a dangerous and perverſe way of reaſoning à minùs notis, which will let in almoſt any errours: From a dark text in the Revelations, or Daniel, or from the ſuppoſition that the Pope is the Antichriſt, and all Papiſts have received the mark of the beaſt, you gather concluſions againſt the notorious duties of Love and peace, which the light of nature doth commend to all: Not that I am perſwading you that the Pope is not Antichriſt; but that all things be received but according to their proper degree of evidence.

S.

Now you open your ſelf indeed: All that revolt to Popery begin there, with queſtioning whether the Pope be the Antichriſt, and telling men of the darkneſs of the Book of Revelations.

P.

I tell you I will abate no certainty that you have, but increaſe my own and yours if I could: but I would not have any falſly to pretend that they are certainer of any thing than they are: And no certainty can go beyond the aſcertaining evidence: And if all Scriptures be equally plain, St. Peter was deceived, that tells us of many things hard to be underſtood, which the unlearned wreſt as other Scriptures to their own deſtruction. And if the Revelations be not one of the hardeſt, I crave your anſwer to theſe queſtions: 1. Why are five Expoſitors uſually of four opinions in the expounding of it? when it is thoſe that have ſpent much of their lives in ſtudying it (as Napier, Brightman, &c.) who are the Expoſitors? 2. Why will none of you that find it ſo eaſie at laſt write one certain Commentary which may aſſure which of all the former (if any one of them) was in the right? 3. Why did Calvin take it to be too hard for him, and durſt not venture to expound it? 4. And if you take it to be ſo neceſſary as you pretend, tell me whether it was ſo neceſſary, and ſo taken by all thoſe Churches, that for a long time received it not as Canonical Scripture? Surely they were ſaved without believing it. Though no doubt but the book of Revelation is a great mercy to the Church, and all men ſhould underſtand as much of it as they can. But all that I blame you for here, is the perverting of the order of proof, in arguing à minùs notis.

13. And theſe over-doers that run things into the contrary extreams, do moſt injuriouſly weaken the Proteſtant cauſe, by diſabling themſelves and all men of their principles to defend it, and arming the Papiſts againſt it by their errors. When it cometh to an open diſpute by Word or Writing, one of theſe mens errors is like a wound that lets out blood and ſpirits, and puts words of triumph into the adverſaries mouth: A cunning Papiſt will preſently drive the ignorant diſputant to reſolve his cauſe into his miſtake, and then will open the falſhood of that, and thence inferr the falſhood of all the reſt: And what an injury is that to the ſouls of the auditors, who may be betrayed by it, and to the cauſe it ſelf? For inſtance, If one of our overdoers hold that we are reputed to have kept all the Law of Innocency and p. 294merited ſalvation our ſelves by Chriſt, or that no act of faith is Juſtifying but the accepting of his righteouſneſs, or that faith Juſtifieth only as the efficient inſtrumental cauſe, or that we have no righteouſneſs which hath any thing to do in our Juſtification, but only Chriſts imputed Merits, or that mans faith, Love or obedience are not rewardable, &c. how eaſily will a Papiſt open the falſhood of ſuch an opinion to the hearers, and then tell them that they may ſee by this who is in the right. And, alas, what work would one Learned Papiſt make in London by publick diſputing, if we had no wiſer men to deal with him than theſe over-doers? They may call Truth and Sobriety Antichriſtian, and talk nonſence as againſt Popery ſucceſsfully to their own party; but I hope never to ſee the cauſe managed by their publick diſputes, leſt half the Congregation turn Papiſts on it at once. If Chillingworth had not been abler to confute a Papiſt than thoſe that uſed to calumniate him as Popiſh or Socinian, he had done leſs ſervice of that kind than he did.

14. And it is an odious injury that theſe Over-doers do to the ancient and the univerſal Church, while in many caſes, they (ignorantly or wilfully) reproach and condemn them, as if they were all the favourers of Popery, and call their ancient doctrine and practice Antichriſtian. Some of them ignorantly falſifie the Fathers doctrine, and upon truſt from their Leaders aver… that they held that which they plainly contradict: and that which they held indeed, they cry out againſt as Popery. Such an inſtance we have newly in a Souldier, Major Danvers, an Anabaptiſt, which I have detected. And will Chriſt take it well to have almoſt all his Church condemned as Antichriſtian?

15. And hereby what an honour is done to Popery, and what a diſhonour to the Reformed Churches, when it ſhall be concluded that all the Churches heretofore, even next after the age of the Apoſtles, and almoſt all the preſent Churches, were and are againſt the doctrine of the Proteſtants, and on the Papiſts ſide? And yet how many do us this injury, and the Roman Church this honour? About the nature of Juſtifying faith, and its office to Juſtification, and about the nature of Juſtification it ſelf, and Imputation of Righteouſneſs, and free-will, and mans Works and Merits, and about aſſurance of ſalvation and perſeverance, how many do call that Popery, which the whole current of Greek and Latine Fathers do aſſert, and all the ancient Churches owned, and moſt of all the preſent Churches in the world? And thoſe that call all forms of prayer, Popery, or the Engliſh Liturgie at leaſt, when almoſt all the Chriſtian world have forms, and moſt ſuch as are much worſe, do but tell men that the Chriſtian world is on the ſide that they oppoſe, and againſt their way.

16. And it is a crime of infamy to be taken for Separatiſts from the univerſal Church; And in doctrines and forms of Worſhip, not only to avoid what we take to have been a common weakneſs, but alſo to condemn them as Antichriſtian, or as holding pernicious errours, is but to perſwade men that we are not of the ſame body, and to own a ſinful diſhonourable ſeparation.

17. And by all theſe means theſe Over-doers do greatly increaſe Atheiſm and Infidelity and prophaneneſs among us, while their zeal againſt Truth and reproaches of ſound doctrine, do make men think that our Religion is nothing but proud humour and ſelf-conceit; and while they ſee us ſo boldly condemn almoſt all the world except our ſelves, they will think that ſo few as we deſerve not to be excepted.

18. By this injurious extremity againſt the Papiſts, we do but kindle in them a bitterer enmity to us, and hatred of them breedeth hatred in them of p. 295us, and ſo we ſet them on plotting revenge againſt us, as implacable injurious enemies; when we ſhould deal ſoberly and righteouſly with all men, and ſeek to win them by truth and gentleneſs.

19. I And ſuch dealings with them do draw Perſecution on the Proteſtants that live under their Dominions; and if we refuſe to uſe them here as Chriſtians, no wonder if abroad they uſe not the Proteſtants as Men.

20. And by ſuch great abuſes of Reformation, men hinder Reformation for the time to come, and do their part to make it hopeleſs, while they diſcourage ſuch attempts, by diſhonouring the Reformation which is paſt Even as David George, and Munt…er, and the Munſter Do…ages and Rebellions, do hinder the …eviving of Anabaptiſtry in the world, and the ſhame of their old practices and ſucceſſes, is as a Grave ſtone upon the Sepuleher of their Cauſe; ſo do theſe men do their part to make it with the whole Reformation, that none hereafter may date to own or meddle with ſuch work.

Theſe that I have opened briefly to you, are the real fruits of falſe, injurious and ignorant zeal and over-doing againſt the Papiſts: And if Popery revive, it's like to be by ſuch men.

S.

But Popery is an heinous evil; and corrupt nature is ſo prone to evil, tha… you need not thus diſſwade men from going too far from it, or from over-doing againſt it, no more than from being overmuch religious.

P.

You may ſay the ſame as truly of the errors on the contrary extream: All of them are evil, and men are prone to evil: But 1. Little know you how common it is in the world to ſpend mens zeal againſt the real or ſuppoſed evil of other mens Opinions, and thereby to ſtrengthen the mortal evil of their own carnal affections and paſſions, and worldly lives, and to take a zeal for Truth and Orthodoxneſs for real Holineſs, while uſually ſuch miſs of Truth it ſelf. 2. And you know not the wiles of Satan, how ordinarily he betrayeth a good Cauſe by the ill management of its moſt zealous friends, and doth undo by over-doing. When he will play the Devil indeed with Eve, he will ſeem to be more than God himſelf for Knowledge of Good and Evil, and for the advancement of mankind to be like God; and God ſhall be accuſed by him as if he were untrue, and envyed our perfection. When he will play the Devil indeed with Chriſt, he will ſeem to be more for valiantneſs and truſting God than Chriſt was, and pleadeth Scripture for tempting God. When he will, play the Devil indeed in the Phariſees, he will be ſtricter for the …abbath, and for Diſcipline in avoiding the company of the Publicans and ſinners, and ſtricter in faſtings and dyet and other obſervations than Chriſt himſelf; And he will be a zealous enemy to Blaſphemy, and a zealous Royaliſt for Caeſar, and a zealous honourer of the Temple and the Law, when Chriſt, or Paul, or other Apoſtles are to be deſtroyed by it. And when he will play the Devil in the Nicolaitans, Simonians, and Gnoſtick Hereticks, he will ſeem to be for higher knowledge, and greater liberty than the Apoſtles were. And ſo when he would ſow diſcord among Chriſtians, and would kill their Love, and divide Chriſts Church, and ſet them in a mental and oral War againſt each other, he will aggravate the errors and faults of others, and he will ſeem a more zealous friend of Truth, and enemy to Popery, Hereſie, Error, Superſtition, falſe Worſhip, or other faults than Chriſt is: But he knoweth why.

S.

But God telleth us himſelf, that he is jealous about his Worſhip, and hath in Scripture more ſeverely executed his Juſtice upon the corrupters of his Worſhip, than almoſt any other crime.

p. 296P.

No doubt but God is jealous againſt Idolatry. He that knoweth not the true God from Idols, cannot honour him. And he that worſhippeth him not as a moſt Great and Holy God, diſhonoureth or blaſphemeth him on pretence of worſhipping him. And to worſhip him by an Image, is to perſwade men that God is like that which that Image doth repreſent; which is to deny him to be God. And no doubt but the Jews great temptations to Idolatry from the Nations about them, were to be oppugned by great ſeverities of God. And no doubt but Moſes Law was to be honoured by Gods ſevere executions on the breakers of it.

But when you come to Chriſts preaching, you find how oft he teacheth the Phariſees to go learn what that meaneth, I will have Mercy, and not Sacrifice. When he conferreth with the Woman of Samaria, John 4. ſhe preſently turneth from the doctrine of faith (as Sectaries do among us) to the Controverſies of the times, [Our Fathers ſay, In this Mountain, and you ſay At Jeruſalem, men ought to worſhip.] But Chriſt calleth her off ſuch low diſcourſe, and teacheth her to worſhip God as a Spirit, in ſpirit and truth, if ever ſhe would be accepted of him.

S.

But it is a time now when Popery is ſtriving to riſe again, and how unſeaſonably would you abate mens zeal againſt it?

P.

No more than he was againſt his Lawyers Zeal, who grew hoarſe with ſenſeleſs bawling for him, ſaying, I am glad he hath loſt his voice, or elſe I might have loſt my Cauſe. I am ſo much againſt Popery, that I wiſh it wiſer and abler adverſaries, than ſelf-conceited unſtudied Zealots, who will honour Popery, by entitling it to the Truths of God, and the Conſent of the Antient or Univerſal Church; or would make people believe, that it conſiſteth in ſome good or indifferent things, as in ſome Doctrines, Forms or Government, which others can ſee no harm in; And ſo teach men to ſay, If this be Popery, we will rather be Papiſts, than of them that rave as in their ſleep, againſt they know not what. Could theſe men be perſwaded to lay out their Zeal and diligence, in propagating the practical knowledge of Chriſtianity it ſelf, and let things alone which they underſtand not, and SUSPEND TILL THEY HAVE THROUGHLY STUDIED, or at leaſt to forbear hindering wiſer men, and calumniating and backbiting thoſe that would by wiſdom defend that truth which by folly and raſhneſs they go about to betray, they might be meet for their ſhare of that honour which now they forfeit.

S.

You ſtrive againſt Gods Judgements by which he hath oft times diſowned Popery among us; and would make that leſs odious, which God by wonders hath oft called us to abhorr.

P.

You ſtill miſtake: It is only your ſtrengthening them, or ſinning againſt God by falſe and ignorant accuſations, and calumniating wiſer men as favouring them, that I ſpeak againſt. God hath oft marvellouſly preſerved us from their attempts. But if you will uſe untruths againſt them, they will repay you two for one, and with what meaſure you mete, it ſhall be meaſured to you. Little know you how odious they render us by lyes abroad where they are believed: and I would have no honeſt man to imitate them. I will inſtance to you in a few of their Stories.

Saith Thom. Waldenſis (a Learned man) againſt Wickliffe, citante Tympio, pag. 104. [I will tell you a Story which I ſaw with my own eyes in the Cathedral of St. Paul in London: where Tho. Arundel a Venerable Prelate of happy memory, a Son, and Brother of Earls (the Biſhop of Norwich and others aſſiſting him) ſitting in judgement, propoſed ſome queſtions of the Euchariſt to a certain Taylor of Worceſterſhire taken in Hereſie; and when he could not be moved, and would call the moſt p. 297Sacred Hoſt nothing but Bleſſed Bread, at laſt being commanded to do reverence to the Hoſt, he blaſphemouſly anſwered, A Spider is worthier of Reverence. And preſently a great and horrid Spider deſcending from the top of the room by his thread, made directly to the Blaſphemers mouth, and laboured to get in while he ſpake. The Illuſtrious Prince Thomas Duke of Oxford then Chancellor of the Kingdom, ſaw the prodigie: which ſo confirmed them of Gods revenge, that they burnt the man]

Saith the ſame Tympius Theatr. p. 148. [Oecolampadius an Apoſtate married Monk an. 1528. was ſtrangled by the Devil in Baſil, (as Luther reporteth in his Book of the private Maſs): a death worthy his life. Luther writeth that he had proved it (explor atiſſimum eſſe) that Oecolampadius was killed by the fiery weapons of the Devil.]

Caroloſtadius an. 1530. ſtrangled by the Calvinian God went quickly to Hell, as Eraſmus Albertus reporteth.

John Calvin was conſumed of the lowſie diſeaſe, the Worms eating through all his body, with blaſpheming words, curſed God and called on the Devil, and committed his ſoul to him, an. 1567. ſaith Bolſec in vit. Calv. c. 22. Beza writeth, that Calvin tormented four years miſerably at laſt eaten with ſwarming Lice dyed unhappily and filthily. Pag. 154. Luther having ſupped daintily and gone merry to bed, was ſtrangled in the night. Th. Bozius de ſig. Eccl. l. 23. ſig. 96. …. 3. ſaith that he was certified by a Boy that ſerved Luther and turned to them, that Luther hang'd himſelf, but they ſwore all the houſe to conceal it.

Ibid. id. [They ſay (ſaith Bozius) that when Bucer was dying, a horrid Devil ſtood by and almoſt frightned all preſent to death, of whom he (Bucer) was ſtricken that he might carry away his ſoul; for being pull'd out of the bed, his bowels being ſcattered all about the Bed-chamber, and he killed with many torments, did expire.]

How like you ſuch work as this? ſuch horrid lyes, of things fully known? Should not the deteſtation of them make us afraid of coming near them by any imitation, and to take heed what we believe or ſay of others? Abundance more ſuch Stories, Miracles and Progidies you may find in Tympius and Caeſarius beſides many others. Read but thoſe two Books and you will ſee who be the great pretenders to Prodigies and Miracles, and readieſt to proclaim Gods Judgements on others, when they that think they do it for the honour of God, alas, are unawares moved to it by the intereſt of that Cauſe and Party which is ſo much their own, as that it may be called Their own Intereſt.

S.

Well, for all this, I take it to be Gods Mercy to poſſeſs the unlearned Profeſſors themſelves, with ſo great a zeal againſt all that ſavoureth of Popery; ſo that were it not for them, the Miniſters themſelves would comply further than they do: But when they ſee that it is the ſenſus communis fidelium, and they muſt loſe all the good people if they comply, it holds them in. Many that cannot diſpute againſt Popiſh errors and practices, can hate them.

P.

No doubt, but the habit of Divine Love, doth hold many good Chriſtians much faſter to God and the certain Eſſentials of Chriſtianity and Piety, than the ſtrongeſt diſputing Reaſon would do without it. But if you will ſay the ſame of doubtful diſputations, you will much miſtake. In many ſuch things the ſtricter profeſſors go with the ſtream of their party, and follow them that carry it for the reputation of moſt godlineſs, or thoſe leaders or friends that have moſt advantage on them. And do they not uſe the very ſame argument as you in different Countreys for different p. 298and contrary cauſes? In Germany the Communis ſenſus fideliu… is one thing, and in England another, and in France another in ſuch matters. Yea, in the ſame Countrey in ſeveral times. I can remember ſince among the Religious ſtricter party, it was abominable to wear long hair, even to cover the ears, and now theſe twenty years they many of them exceed thoſe that then were accounted Ruffians. It was then a crime with them to take Tobacco, and now it is none: and thus cuſtome changes the matter with them. And now in ſome Congregations they will not ſing Pſalms, in others they will not read the Scripture; In others theſe can be endured, but not the uſe of the Creed, Lords Prayer and Decalogue: In others that much, but no Forms of Prayer of mans deviſing: In others, the Miniſters own ſelf-impoſed Form, but none impoſed by Superiours: In one Congregation they are commonly for Univerſal Redemption and Free-will, and in another commonly againſt it: And why then would you perſwade us, that in ſuch things as theſe, the common ſenſe of the faithful goeth all one way, when they uſually are carryed down the ſtream of pious reputation where they live?

And indeed you have ſmall reaſon to be glad, that Miniſters have the temptation of popular eſteem or cenſure to conflict with, or that ſo many are conquered by it. Is it a lovely thing to hear ſilly women (ever learning, or rather hearing, but never coming to a competent knowledge of ſuch matters) to cant out againſt their Teachers [Antichriſtian] and [Popery] upon words or actions not underſtood, which ſuit not with their vain conceits?

S.

It is one of the artifices of the Papiſts which you have learned: when they would draw men to ſet light by the purity of Religion and the Worſhip of God, to cry up Love and Concord and Peace inſtead of it, and ſo to tye all mens tongues and hands from reſiſting their wicked Church-pollutions, by the fear of Schiſm, or being uncharitable to the polluters. And ſo you will draw men to an indifferency in Religion on pretence of Peace and Charity.

P.

I am certain that the Wiſdom from above is firſt pure, and then peaceable, and gentle, &c. James 3. 17. and it ever takes in both. And I am ſure that Chriſt firſt and his Apoſtles after him make Love the ſumm of our Religion. I think it not amiſs to tell you, of this, what an old Non-conformiſt ſaith in a Latin Treatiſe called De vera & genuina Jeſu Chriſti Religione, Authore Miniſtro Anglo, p. 36, 37, 38, 39. The words are too large to recite, but in ſhort he laboureth to prove, that next Faith in God and the Redeemer, Love is the Chriſtian Religion it ſelf, and ſet up inſtead of Ceremonies and penal Jewiſh Laws, as the Great Law of Chriſt, and the fulfilling of all Laws, anſwering his own Office, and ſo his new and great Commandment and the Character of his people, and ſo the Communion of the Saints is our faith and life. And that to believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Ghoſt, and Love him and one another, is the Goſpel, and our true Religion: And that when it cometh to Ceremonies, Rituals and externals, this ſtill is Chriſts voice, [Go learn what this meaneth, I will have Mercy and not Sacrifice.]

But know you not that you come up to the worſer part of Popery, when you imitate the bloodieſt men among them in your degree, by pleading for Sacrifice againſt Mercy? A cruel Religion, and burning and deſtroying men, and ſetting Kingdoms on fire, on pretence of keeping out Hereſie and Schiſm, and preſerving the right Faith, and Government, and Worſhip, is the malignity of Popery. When either They or You grow wrathfully zealous againſt your Brethren on pretence of purity of Faith or p. 299Worſhip, and to make you a Religion which quencheth Love, you know not what manner of Spirit you are of.

S.

Is not the Church of Epheſus commended, Rev. 2. 3. that could not bear them that were evil, and that tryed falſe Apoſtles and found them lyars; and are they not blamed that did bear with the woman Jezabel and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans? And if God hate ſuch doctrine, ſo muſt we.

P.

All this is true and good; but do not you miſapply it to defend your uncharitableneſs, or error? I am not perſwading you to Indifferency as to truth and falſhood, good and evil, nor to abate your hatred of Idolatry or ſuch doctrine of wickedneſs and uncleanneſs as the Nicolaitan's was; nor yet to corrupt the Churches by neglecting Diſcipline. We would have a man that is an Heretick rejected after the firſt and ſecond admonition: Bear not with any ſuch evil in your Church Communion which ſhould be caſt out, and maketh men uncapable of Communion, (ſo far as it is in your power regularly to caſt out ſuch.) But as you muſt not take ſuch for enemies, but ſtill afford them a common ſort of Charity, ſo you muſt not on this pretence, in your ignorance and raſhneſs rave againſt truth or harmleſs things, or your Brethren that think not in all things as you do; nor call that Popery which ſober wiſer men than you, (yea, almoſt all Chriſts Church on earth) do take to be ſound doctrine, or laudable practice. It is the ſhame of the party among us that moſt inclineth to ſeparation, when ſober underſtanding men ſhall hear an ignorant fellow or woman with confident boldneſs, rail at a controverted Doctrine, or a Form of Prayer, or Ceremony as Popery, and admoniſh their Teachers not to receive the Mark of the Beaſt, when they do but ſhew their pride and ignorance, in overvaluing their own conceptions and unfurniſhed underſtandings, and vilifying the knowledge of others in their dark preſumption. If you would bring ſuch leſſer errors under Church Diſcipline or Separation, on pretence of not bearing with them that are evil, it is you your ſelves that would ſooneſt be found worthy to be ſeparated from or caſt out, who credit Popery by placing it in ſound, good, decent or harmleſs things, and corrupt Doctrine and Worſhip by your▪ Errors and Superſtitions, which you run into on the contrary extream.

S.

Your laxe and looſe principles would caſt out all Diſcipline out of the Church.

P.

You know not how much in your pretences to over-much ſtrictneſs of Diſcipline, you agree with thoſe Papiſts and Prelatiſts whom you ſeem to be moſt averſe from. How hath the Pope ſubdued Emperours and Princes to himſelf, and captivated the World, but by the pretence of Diſcipline, by his Excommunications and Abſolutions? How elſe have his Prelates diſturbed this Kingdom in former Ages? And I my ſelf had lately to do with one of the greateſt Clergie-men that hath had a hand in our ejection, ſilencing and preſent Church-ſtate, againſt whom I am fain to defend, that Kings and Chief Magiſtrates are not to be excommunicated: And I find the aforeſaid Engliſh Non-conformiſt in the ſaid Latin Tract. de Vera & Genuina Relig. pag. 280, 281. put upon the ſame task, and performing it by the ſame arguments which I uſed. I confeſs, the Papiſts and Worldly Tyrannical Clergie do corrupt Diſcipline, and caſt out the true cleanſing uſeful exerciſe of it; but for ſo much and ſuch uſe as is conducible to maintain the intereſt of their Sect and Party and Carnality, no men are more hot: and is it not ſo with you?

FINIS.

End of the text · Richard Baxter, Catholic Theology Plain Pure Peaceable (1675)