The Utter Routing of the Whole Army of All the Independents and Sectaries, Pages 1-101 (3 of 3)

The Utter Routing of the Whole Army of All the Independents and Sectaries · Pages 1-101 (3 of 3)

p. 68And this is that government, that God hath commanded to be perpetuated to the end of the world, in theſe words; Whatſoever ye ſhall binde on earth, ſhall be bound in heaven, and whatſoever ye ſhall looſe on earth ſhall be looſed in heaven. So that the Presbyters onelyonly have the power of the keyes, & it is their place only to ordain Miniſters and Church Officers, (whatſoever Authority the people may exerciſe in the chuſing of them) as Paul writes unto Timothy and Titus, and they onelyonly are to judge and determine and to cenſure in matters of manners and doctrine, and the people are to allow and approve it according to the Word of God. Yea the very Synagogues of the Jews, which were the ſame that our churches are, were governed by a Presbytery, (as our brethren acknowledge) called by the name of the Rulers of the Synagogue, who governed by joynt and common councell; as is evident and manifeſt, in that there were ſuperior and inferior Judges▪ Commanders, and Rulers, according as their yeares, gravity and wiſdome made them more emninent then others, and venerable to p. 69the people: as may appeare in many places as Acts 18. ver. 8. It is ſaid there, That Criſpus the chiefe Ruler of the Synagogue beleeved with all his houſhould. So that if there were a chiefe Ruler, or Iudge, or a Preſident; there muſt of neceſſity be a Councell or Segniory of inferiour ones, that had Rule and Authority over others as well as he: and where there is a chiefe Juſtice or Judge, there are other Judges joyned with him, as all reaſon perſwades, and there muſt needs be a Court of Judicature, where all things are tranſacted, by conjoynt and common conſent and agreement: and ſo it was in the Synagogues of the Jewes, who were ſubject to, and ordered by the determinations and abitrement of their Rulers and Governours. So that the ſeverall Churches or Synagogues under the Jews were in ſubjection to thoſe Rulers, and were governed according as by common councell they ordered. And Mat. the 5. verſ. 22. And behold there came one of the Rulers of the Synagogue, whoſe name was Iairus▪ here was a ſpeciall Ecce added to take notice, that a great man, and one in authority, came unto Chriſt, and that in a publick way, and one of the Rulers of the Synagogue. So that wee may obſerve the people in every Synagogue were governed and commanded by their Rulers, and they were to yeeld obedience unto them, and were not joyned with them in Commiſſion, but ſtood to their determination, as all men uſe to doe in Courts of Judicature, that appeal unto them for juſtice. And this cuſtome and manner of government was tranſacted over to the Chriſtian Churches; and thoſe that were called Rulers among them, are among Chriſtians ſometimes called Presbyters, ſometimes Guides, ſometimes Rulers, and by Chriſt himſelfe and by his Apoſtles, are appointed over all Chriſtian Churches as ſo many corporations; to which all the Aſſemblies and Congregations under them, and committed to their charge, are to yeeld obedience and ſubmiſſion, in whatſoever they command in the Lord, and according to his bleſſed Word; for that muſt be the rule both of their commanding and of the peoples obeying. And this Presbyterian government, is that manner and way of ruling all Aſſemblies and particular Congregations under it, that God hath appointed in his Church, to be continued to the end of the world; the which whoſoever reſiſteth, reſiſteth the Ordinance of God. And this ſhall ſuffice to have ſpoken in generall, in way of proofe, That all Churches wee have mention of under the New Teſtament, p. 70were Ariſtocratically and Preſbyterially governed, that is, were under the Government of a Colledge or Aſſembly of Preſbyters.

And now I come to prove in order the foure Propoſitions or concluſions I undertooke to make good. The firſt was, That there were many Congregations and ſeverall Aſſemblies in the Church of Ieruſalem, in the which they had all acts of worſhip, and did partake in all Ordinances of Church-Fellowſhip; and that before the perſecution we reade of Act. 8. and under the perſecution, and after the perſecution. And for the proofe of this Propoſition, and every branch of it, I will firſt produce ſuch places of Scripture as make for the manifeſtation of the truth, and from thence frame and forme my Arguments, Mat. 3. ver. 1, 2. 5, 6. In thoſe dayes came Iohn the Baptiſt, preaching in the wilderneſſe of Iudaea, and ſaying, Repent ye, for the Kingdome of heaven is at hand. Then went out to him Ieruſalem, and all …udaea and all the Region round about Iordan, and were baptized of him in Iordan confeſſing their ſinnes. The Baptiſme of Iohn, as all the learned know, was the ſame with that of the Apoſtles, for he preached the Baptiſme of Repentance for the Remiſſion of ſinnes, and Baptized all that came to him▪ into Ieſus Chriſt, ſaying unto the people, That they ſhould beleeve on him which ſhould come after him, that is, on Chriſt Ieſus, Act. 19. ver. 4. Hee had his Commiſſion alſo from God as well as the Apoſtles, and Baptized Chriſt himſelfe; hee preached alſo the Goſpel and the Kingdome of the Meſſiah as well as the Apoſtles; and had many honourable Teſtimonies from Chriſt himſelfe; as, That he was the greateſt Prophet that ever was borne of woman, and That he was a bright ſhining light, and That he was his witneſſe; and many other Encomiums and praiſes did Chriſt give of him, to ratifie his Authority, and to ſhew that he was ſent of God, and that he was that Elias that was to come before the Meſſiah: And all the people owned, and tooke him for a man ſent of God, and Ieruſalem went out to him, and all the Region round about, and were Baptized of him. In theſe words wee find that the people of Ieruſalem were all turned Chriſtians, and made members of the Chriſtian Church, and were beleevers. For which way ſoever the word Ieruſalem be taken, it ſignifieth a numberleſſe multitude of men, or an innumerable company.

p. 71For if we conſider Ieruſalem at this time, ſhe was a moſt populous City: the Hiſtorians that write of that age, relate, That ſhe had ſomtimes in her, no leſſe then eleven or twelve hundred thouſand; but let it be taken that theſe were but ſix hundred thouſand inhabitants, it is a vaſt multitude, and yet ſeldome was there leſſe inhabitants in Ieruſalem, if any beleife may be had to Hiſtorians; for at that time it was one of the Metropolis Cities of the world, and the glory of Nations and the joy of the whole Earth; and beſides there was then great expectation, as we may read, Luke 19. 11. That the Kingdome of God ſhould immediately appear, and all the Jewes out of all Nations where they were ſcattered, now repaired to Jeruſalem, and returned into their own countrey, expecting the Meſſiah. So that at this time, we cannot conceive but that there were infinites of people in Jeruſalem, and it is ſaid, That Jeruſalem went out and was baptized by Iohn. By Jeruſalem, here metonimycally the place is taken for the people. Now when it is ſaid that a City goeth out, it is to be underſtood either of the whole people, Man, Woman, and Child, old and young, with all the inhabitants; as many times it happens, in great Earth-quakes, or ſome Peſtilence or Inundation, that all the Inhabitants are forced to leave a City, and to ſeek ſome other habitation, or of ſome great part; but we cannot conceive the going out of Jeruſalem to Iohn Baptist in that large ſenſe and expreſſion; ſo that in this place it muſt be taken Synecdochycally, and we are to underſtand a great part, or a chiefe part for the whole: as when a City is ſaid to entertaine a King, or to go out to meet a King, here it is to be underſtood principally of the chief Officers, as the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and the Common-councell, and all their ſeverall Companies, and chiefe Captaines and Commanders, with all their magnificence; ſo that in this notion the common people and the ordinary Citizens are not thought on, or at leaſt are not numbred. As when JESUS was borne in Bethlem, and the Wiſe Men came to Jeruſalem, to enquire where they ſhould finde him that was borne King of the Iewes, that they might worſhip him, for they had ſeen his Star, it is ſaid, That when Herod heard theſe things, He and all Ieruſalem was troubled with him. Here, by all Ieruſalem, is to be underſtood all the chiefe Officers and Courtiers; for the common people were glad of it; for that was the day they had long looked for, and rejoyced at: but Herod being an p. 72Uſurper and a Tyrant, and all his Nobles, Peers, and Great men being confederate with him, and adjutors in his uſurpation and tyranny, and conceiving that Chriſt was an earthly Monarch; and that after the manner of the Kings of the Earth, he would not onelyonly pull down the Uſurper, but likewiſe call all them in queſtion, as guilty of High Treaſon, and cut them of as complices and abettors; this made them tremble and feare; and becauſe it was the generall fear of all the great men in Jeruſalem, and of all the Courtiers and Officers under Herod, therefore it is ſaid, that Herod and all Ieruſalem with him was troubled. So that Tyrants and their complices never have any reall peace. But in this ſenſe alſo it cannot be underſtood, that Ieruſalem went out to John and was baptized; it muſt therefore by a Senecdoche be taken for all the common people promiſcuouſly, or for a mighty multitude of all ſorts, and of all ranks of people, and of all profeſſions, as Publicans, Souldiers, and the ordinary Inhabitants: and in this ſenſe the word Jeruſalem muſt be taken for a mighty multitude of men in Jeruſalem that were made Chriſtians; for otherwiſe the Evangeliſt would have ſaid, many went out of Ieruſalem alſo, as well as out of other places: but in ſaying that all Iudea, and all the Regions round about, and Jeruſalem went out; this metaphoricall expreſſion doth ſignifie, That an infinite number of people in Ieruſalem it ſelfe, were made Chriſtians and Members of the Church; and that it is ſo to be underſtood, the places following will evidently evince it: for in Matth. 11. 12. our Saviour ſaith, That from the dayes of Iohn the Baptiſt, untill now, the Kingdome of Heaven ſuffereth violence, and the violent take it by force, then the which, there could nothing be ſpoke more emphatically, to ſet forth the growth and increaſe of Beleevers, and the multitude of Chriſtians, as Luke alſo in ch. 16. v. 16. expreſſeth ſaying, That the Law and the Prophets were untill Iohn; ſince that time the kingdome of God is preached, and every man preſſeth in to it: that is, the generality of the people became beleevers, and were baptized: as it is yet more evident from Luke 7. 29, 30. by the very teſtimony of our Saviour, who ſaith, That all the people that heard him, and the Publicans, juſtified God, being baptized with the Baptiſme of Iohn; but the P hariſees and Lawyers rejected the councell of God againſt themſelves, being not baptized of him. So that by the witneſſe of our Saviour Chriſt, except the p. 73Phariſees and the Prieſts; all the people, or the generality of the people in Ieruſalem were baptized, and became Chriſtians, and imbraced the Goſpell: and this was accounted among the miracles that was wrought in thoſe dayes, and as a thing of ſpeciall obſervation, and as a matter of wonder; as we may ſee in the meſſage our Saviour Chriſt ſent unto Iohn the Baptiſt by his Diſciples, when he bad them relate unto their Maſter, what they had ſeen and heard in the 22. Verſe; Tell him ſaith he, That the blinde ſee, the lame walke, the Leapers are cleanſed, the deafe heare, and the dead are raiſed, and the poore receive the Goſpel; this I ſay, was among the miracles, that the generality of the poore imbrace the Goſpel, and were baptized and made Believers: which muſt needs import a mighty multitude, and a great increaſe, or elſe it would not have been a thing of ſuch wonder, and have been ſent unto Saint Iohn as a miraculous thing; and a thing worthy to prove Chriſt himſelf to be the Meſſiah looked for; for no meere man could have wrought ſuch a work, asto draw the hearts of the the people to imbrace the Goſpel, but the Meſſiah himſelf; For Paul may plant, and Apollo may water, 1 Cor. 3. but God only the Meſſiah, muſt give the increaſe; he muſt move the heart to imbrace the Goſpel, and to believe; for faith is the gift of God, Epheſ. 2. and therefore this was the wonder that the generality of the people did believe and were baptized, and this was the ſole work and operation of Chriſt, and therefore proved him to be the Prophet they looked for. And it ſtands with all reaſon that there were infinites of people in Jeruſalem that believed; and that Iohn was greatly magnified of the people, and publickly followed, becauſe for a time, Herod himſelfe countenanced Iohn Mark. 6. 20▪ and feared him, knowing that he was a juſt man and an holy, and obſerved him, and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly. And although we read not that he was baptized by Iohn, yet he highly honoured him; till Iohn reproved him, and told him, it was not lawfull for him to have his Brothers Wife. And in this interim of his ſeeming favour, we may conceive, that the Courtiers alſo and the great men would do as their Maſter did: for if we obſerve the manner of all Courts to this day, what the King does the Courtiers alſo do; if the King laugh, though there be perhaps a cauſe of mourning, they will all laugh; and if he frownes, though there be a cauſe of cheerfulneſſe p. 74and ſmiling, they will al frown; and if the King commends any man, they will all admire him; and if he hears any Miniſter gladly, they will all heare him willingly: and if he when he is reproved, be angry and diſpleaſed, and will cut off his head whom he had ſo honoured but the day before, then all the Courtiers, they will helpe him, and further the worke: as we may ſee, not only in the example of Iohn Baptiſt, but in Haman; as ſoon as the King frownd upon him, the Courtiers they covered his face, and up they truſſed him; be it right or wrong it is all one to Courtiers. But in that interim, I ſay, that Iohn Baptiſt was in favour with the King, without doubt it animated the people greatly to follow him, and by hearing him, many thouſand Saints were converted, and the multitudes of them were numerous, as is manifeſt from Matth. 14. 5. for it is ſaid, That when he would have put him to death he feared the multitude, becauſe they counted him as a Prophet. Here are two obſervables, the one, That he that feared not God, was afraid of his ſervants. The ſecond, that it was a mighty multitude of Believers that were in Ieruſalem; for a few could not have awed the King and kept him in feare: and therefore he was forced to defer the cutting off of his head, till he had got to him all the ſtrength of Galilee, all his Lords and high Captains, and his chiefe Eſtates and Commanders, Mark 6. 21. And when he thought himſelfe ſtrong enough, then he exerciſed his tyranny. Yea, when Iohn was taken away, yet the multitudes of the people continued stedfaſt in the faith, as we may ſee in Luke 20. by the confeſſion of the very enemies: for when our Saviour asked them concerning the baptiſme of Iohn, Whether it was from Heaven or of Men? And they reaſoned among themſelves, ſaying, if we ſhall ſay from Heaven, he will ſay, why then believed ye him not? and if we ſay of Men, all the people will ſtone us, for they be perſwaded that Iohn was a Prophet. Here by the confeſſion of the very enemies, all the people, or the generality of them were Believers; and it muſt of neceſſity be a mighty multitude, that kept all the Prieſts and all the Elders that had all the power in their hands, in awe, that they durſt not ſo much as open their mouthes againſt Iohn the Baptiſt. From all which places, and many more that might be produced, to prove, That there were ſo many Believers in Ieruſalem as could not all meet in one place or roome, or in one Congregation, to partake in all acts of worſhip; I thus argue.

p. 75Where there was an infinite multitude, or a mighty City of Believers, there they could not all meet together in one place or roome, or in one Congregation, for the enjoying of all acts of worſhip, and for edification (which is required in the Churches, 1 Cor. 14. 26.) but of neceſſity muſt be diſtributed into ſeverall Congregations and Aſſemblies, and divers diviſions, that they might be all edified, and partake in all Ordinances. But in the Church of Ieruſalem, by the very baptiſme and preaching of Iohn, there were infinite multitudes, and a very City of Believers. Ergo, they could not all meet together in one place or roome, or in one congregation for the enjoying of all acts of worſhip, and for edification (which is required in the Church of God) but of neceſſitie must be distributed into ſeverall congregations and aſſemblies, and divers diviſions, that they might all be edified, & partake in all ordinances. For the major, it is cleare, by the very light of nature, and all reaſon: for there is no one place or houſe that can contain a whole City, or infinite multitude of Believers: and if any great place could containe them, they could not all be edified and partake of all the acts of worſhip. For if the very great raw-bon'd building of Pauls it ſelf were cramm'd full of people, and had a Preacher of the ſtrongeſt lungs in the City, half the people could not hear and be edified, as daily experience telleth us; ſo that of neceſſity, if they would be edified, and partake in all the Ordinances, they muſt be diſtributed into divers congregations, and ſeverall aſſemblies. I am moſt aſſured that there were ſuch multitudes of Believers in Jeruſalem, that five ſuch buildings as Pauls could not have contained their very bodies within their wals, much leſſe receive them, or entertaine them for edification. So that for the major, I am confident there is no intelligible man will doubt of it. For the Minor, it is manifeſt from the places above produced; for our Saviour ſaith, excepting the Phariſees and the Lawyers (which were but a little handfull) all the people, or the generality of them, juſtified God, and were baptized, and were Believers. So that the concluſion from the premiſes doth neceſſarily follow. But from the former places I argue yet further after this manner.

Where there was ſuch an infinite company and multitude of Chriſtians and Believers, as kept a tyrannicall King in awe, and all the Magiſtrates and Elders in whoſe hands was all the power and authority; and ſtruck ſuch a fear and terror into them all, that they p. 76durſt not exerciſe their cruelty and tyranny over them, though they were their inveterate enemies, and deſired it: There of neceſſity the number of the Believers muſt be ſo great, as they could not all meet together in one place or roome, or in one congregation, for the enjoying and partaking in all the acts of worſhip; but if they would be edified, muſt be diſtributed into divers congregations and aſſemblies. But in Ieruſalem there were ſuch an infinite company and multitude of Chriſtians and Believers, as kept Herod himſelf, the tyrant, in awe, all the Magiſtrates and Elders, in whoſe hands was all the power and authority; and ſtruck ſuch a feare and terror into them, that they durſt not exerciſe their cruelty and tyranny over them, though they were their inveterate enemies, and deſired it. Ergo, of neceſſity the number of the Believers was ſo great, as they could not all meet together in one place or roome, or in one congregation, for the enjoying and partaking in all acts of worſhip; but if they would be edified, muſt be diſtributed into divers Congregations and Aſſemblies.

For the Major and Minor of this Syllogiſme, beſides the force of reaſon and common underſtanding, which were enough to convince any rationall creature of the truth of them: the holy Scripture it ſelf (as from the places above ſpecified, is manifeſt) proves them. So that none can doubt of the truth of the concluſion, but ſuch as will call in queſtion truth it ſelfe. I might out of the ſeverall places above mentioned draw many more Arguments to prove the concluſion; but becauſe I ſtudy brevity, theſe for the preſent ſhall ſerve, to prove, That by the very baptiſme and Miniſtery of S. Iohn the Baptiſt, there were ſuch an infinite company of Believers in the Church of Ieruſalem, as they could not al meet together in one place or congregation, for the injoying of all the Ordinances.

To theſe firſt arguments of mine, by which I proved that by the very Baptiſme of S. Iohn there were more converted and made Chriſtians and believeres in Ieruſalem then could meete in any one place or Congregation, Maſter Knollys anſwers by denying the minor of my Syllogiſmes, and I. S. by denying they were Chriſtians as we ſhall ſee. I will therefore reply unto them both, in order, beginning firſt with Maſter Knollys, whoſe words are theſe pag. 8. I do deny the minor propoſition of theſe arguments ſaith he. Neither hath the Doctor proved, that there was an infinite number of beleevers, nor a very City of beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem. The p. 77Scriptures quoted by the Doctor ſpeak no ſuch thing. Thoſe places in Matthew, Mark and Luke, tell us of very many who were baptized by Iohn, and by Chriſts Diſciples; but doe not declare how many of thoſe baptized perſons were of the Church of Ieruſalem; and the Scripture witneſſeth, Act. 9. 31. That there were Churches through all Iudaea, as well as in Ieruſalem; and for ought I know, or the Doctor either, many of thoſe baptized perſons might be in thoſe Churches, yea the moſt of them, and but a few in Ieruſalem; it may be no more but thoſe hundred and twenty mentioned, Act. 1. 13, 14, 15. to whom were added about three thouſand ſoules, who continued in the doctrine of the Apoſtles, and in breaking of bread and prayers, Acts the 2. 42, 43, 44. This is all Maſter Knollys hath to ſay by way of anſwer for the enervating of the ſtrength of my Arguments and Reaſons, by which I proved there were more converted by Iohns Miniſterythen could meet in any one place in Ieruſalem.

Now here before I come to reply, I referre my ſelfe to the judicious Reader, whether from the forgoing places, which I quoted out of the Holy Word of God, & from the Reaſons and Arguments deduced out of it, it was not ſufficiently evinced, That there were an infinite number of beleevers, and a very Citie of them in the Church of Ieruſalem, and therefore more then could meet in any one place or Congregation: I demand I ſay of any intelligible Chriſtian, whether thoſe Scriptures I cited with the Arguments deduced from them doe not ſpeake and perſwade ſuch a thing? I am confident all ſuch as know any thing in learning, will ſay they doe. But for anſwer, Maſter Knollys himſelfe, grants that very many were baptized by Iohn and Chriſts diſciples, and none were baptized then but Beleevers, as he and all the Independents doe confeſſe and acknowledge; but ſaith he, the Scriptures quoted, do not declare how many of thoſe baptized perſons were of the Church of Ieruſalem; for the Scriptures witneſſe that there were Churches through all Iudaea, as well as in Ieruſalem, and for ought (ſaith he) I know or the Doctor either, many of thoſe baptized perſons might be of thoſe Churches, yea the moſt of them, and but a few in Ieruſalem, it may be no more but thoſe hundred and twenty, mentioned, Acts the 1. verſ. 13, 14, 15.

If a bare denyall of any Argument with a ſenſeleſſe Reaſon or two, and an it may be, were a ſufficient conviction of a truth, then Maſter Knollys would be a very precious Diſputant, and to ſay p. 78Bellarmine thou lyeſt, would be enough to confute all the Papiſts: But in matters of this nature and of ſo high concernement, there is more required then bare denials, and vaine evaſions and maybee's: And therefore I will take this liberty to tell Maſter Knollis, that hee trifles in Divinity, and deales not like a ſerious nor learned Chriſtian, nor to the purpoſe: for this is not in queſtion betweene mee and the Independents, how many of thoſe baptized perſons through all Iudaea and the Regions round about were reſident in the Church of Ieruſalem? This I ſay was never controverted betweene us; for no man that I know of, ever doubted but that all thoſe that came out of al Iudaea and the Regions round about to the Miniſtry & Baptiſm of Iohn and Chriſts Diſciples, returned home againe to their ſeverall habitations, and there remained and aboad, as thoſe that came out of Ieruſalem to Iohns Preaching and Baptiſme, after they were baptized, repaired to their ſeverall houſes & habitations in that Citie, and remained there waiting upon the publick Ordinances; this I conceive all men that have any underſtanding beleeve. And the Scripture ſufficiently declareth, that the multitudes of Beleevers that came out of Ieruſalem and were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt, (to ſpeake nothing now of the Apoſtles and ſeventy Diſciples) were numberleſſe, and therefore were more then the hundred and twenty names; yea they were innumerable, & therefore more then could meet in any one place or a few. And if the Reader will but looke backe to the Scriptures above quoted, out of which I framed my Arguments, and conſider the inſuing Scriptures and Reaſons from them, he will eaſily perceive that Maſter Knollys is a meere Quibler, and a man no way fit for either diſputation, or any ſerious imployment.

The Evangeliſts ſpeaking of the great concourſes of people that came from all quarters to the Preaching and Miniſtery of Iohn, and to be baptized, to avoid miſtakes, doe ſpecifie the ſeverall places out of which they came, with the numbers indefinitly ſet down that came from every place, ſaying, There went out to him Ieruſalem, and all Iudaea, and all the Regions round about Iordan, and were baptized of him in Iordan confeſſing their ſinnes, Mat. the 3. Here it is abundantly declared that it was an infinite company that came from Ieruſalem, as by the word Ieruſalem is ſufficiently manifeſt, being metaphorically ſet downe and taken in that place (as I ſaid before) ſynechdochically for a mighty part and multitude of p. 79people that came out of that City. And Saint Marke confirmes this, chap. 1. ver. the 5. who ſaith, there went out unto him all the land of Judea, and they of Jeruſalem, and were all baptized of him in the river Jordan confeſſing their ſinnes.

And the ſame is further ratified by the words of our Saviour, Luke 7. 29. 30. who ſaith, that all the people that heard him, and the Publicans juſtified God, being baptized by the Baptiſme of John, but the Phariſees and Lawyers rejected the Councell of God againſt themſelves, being not baptized. So that now by the mouth of three witneſſes and by the teſtimony of Chriſt himſelfe it is ſufficiently proved, That if Jeruſalem and all the people of Jeruſalem went out and were baptized by John (except the Phariſees and Lawyers) that there was an innumerable multitude, and therefore more then could poſſibly meet in any one place or a few, and many more then the hundred and twenty names ſpoke of in the firſt of the Acts; which fond conceit of Mr Knollys is yet more evidently refuted out of the ſecond of the Acts, where it is related that there were at that time Inhabitants and Dwellers at Jeruſalem devout men, that is, true Worſhippers and Beleevers from out of all the Nations under Heaven. To ſay nothing of Nicodemus, and of Joſeph of Arimathea and of many other Rulers, and of all the people and children that cryed Hoſanna and that received Chriſt into the City with all their acclamations and believed in him; the moſt of which were Inhabitants aud Dwellers in Jeruſalem and ſuch as had their aboad there, ſo that by this I have now ſaid, the folly and vanity of Mr Knollys and his cavill is apparantly manifeſt, and this truth ſufficiently clear to all, that there was an infinite number and a very City of Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, beſides thoſe that were of the other Churches in Judea, and therefore could not all meet in one place: For the Scripture ſaith that Ieruſalem and they of Ieruſalem went out and were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt; and therefore all good Chriſtians I am confident will ever beleeve the Scriptures and give credit unto the word of God rather then unto Mr Knollys; and if they will beleeve the Scripture of truth, then they will not onelyonly beleeve there was an infinite number and a very City of Beleevers in Ieruſalem, and that by the very miniſtry and preaching of Iohn, but that Mr Knollys is a very wicked and blaſphemous creature as who giveth the ſpirit of God the lye and oppoſeth alſo all good reaſon: For the ſpirit ſaith Jeruſalem p. 80and all they of Ieruſalem, except the Phariſees and Lawyers, were baptized by John, and all theſe were inhabitants at Jeruſalem; and Mr Knollys affirmeth the contrary and confuteth all the Evangeliſts; whether therefore he be not a very precious diſputant I refer it to the judgement of all ſober-minded Chriſtians that love ſincerity, truth and plain dealing.

And this might ſuffice to ſhew the vanity and wickedneſſe of the man and what a vain caviller he is, that thus abuſeth pretious time to abuſe himſelfe and miſerably to delude ignorant people: But for the farther confirmation of my Minor, I will produce one or two teſtimonies more out of the eleventh of Mark, where there is mention made of two great companies and parties of beleevers and thoſe all Inhabitants in Ieruſalem, the one of them that followed Chriſt and beleeved in him, at which the Scribes and Phariſees were offended, and ſought how they might deſtroy him; but ſaith the Scripture, they feared him, becauſe all the people were aſtoniſhed at his doctrine, that is, they beleeved it: verſe 18. another company was thoſe that were the Diſciples of Iohn the Baptiſt, and they accompted Iohn a Prophet indeed, as all the men of Ieruſalem did, verſe 32. and either of theſe companies were ſo great and powerfull as they kept all Chriſts enemies in awe, ſo that they were affraid of the people of either party, and therefore there was then a very City of believers in Ieruſalem and they Inhabitants, and that in Chriſts time, and they had been baptized by Saint Iohn, for all Ieruſalem went out and were baptized by him; So that now I aſſure my ſelfe every but ordinary underſtanding man will gather that there was an innumerable multitude of believers in Ieruſalem, and more than could meet in any one place, or a few if they had been put together, when there were two ſuch potent parties there, as either of them kept the very enemies of Chriſt, the Magiſtrates and Rulers, yea Herod ▪himſelfe in awe, which a few thouſands could never have done; and all theſe were Inhabitans of Ieruſalem and well known to the Scribes and Phariſees to be Chriſts and Iohns Diſciples, and all beleevers, as wee ſhall more abundantly prove in the following diſcourſe; and therefore my Minor doth now ſtand firme, That there were more beleevers in Ieruſalem, and that by the very miniſtry and baptiſme of John, then could meet in any one place or a few, and that there w… an infinite number of beleevers and a very City of beleevers, which p. 81Mr Knollys denyeth and in ſo doing gives the ſpirit of God the lys and contradicts the holy Scripture and oppoſeth all ſound reaſon, and all this to maintain the fonde opinion of Independency. And this ſhall ſerve to have ſpoke by way of anſwer to what Mr Knollys had to reply to my firſt arguments concerning the multitudes baptized by John the Baptiſt.

I will now give an anſwer to what I. S. hath to ſay againſt this argument, of whom I ſhall take the liberty by way of preface before I come to my Reply, to ſpeak ſomething, and yet no more then ſhall be thought fit and agreeable to ſound reaſon, and ſo much the rather I do it, becauſe this man greatly vanteth himſelfe, and becauſe his anſwer is highly eſteemed of amongſt many of the congregationall way, who I confeſſe are much to be blamed that they ſuffer themſelves to be deluded with ſuch fellowes, never examining their writings, but taking all for oracles they vent, and thinking it enough that there is any thing come out againſt a Presbyterian in way of anſwer, though there be nothing more deſtructive to their own opinion, as I am confident it will appear to all judicious men, that theſe anſwers of Mr Knollys, my Brother Burton and this I. S. are. And for I. S. I may ſay thus much of him that he is yet vainer then Mr Knollys in his anſwers; for he candidly denyeth upon all occaſions the Minors of my Syllogiſmes, and then gives ſome ſucking reaſons for this his denyall; but this I. S. hath nothing of a Scholler in him; for all good Schollers and Diſputants will ſet down the arguments of their adverſaries in their full ſtrength and as they are in the Copy, and then either deny the Major or Minor, or both; or diſtinguiſh, and after they have ſhewen the fallacyes of the arguments, if there be any, then by their art and learning they will ſhew the weakneſſe of them, and ſo evade the dinte and force of them; this I ſay is the method, not onelyonly of all accurate Diſputants, but of every ordinary jangler, if he, at leaſt, pretends any thing to learning: But I. S. hath not ſo much ingenuity in him as to do any thing of all this; but firſt ſets down my arguments in an obſcure way and to the halves, ſo that the unlearned Reader cannot perceive the ſtrength of my reaſon; and then in a confuſed manner gives in his anſwer in the name of all the Independents, which upon due examination I am confident will appear to all learned men to be nothing but a packe of blaſphemies and contradictions as being a p. 82meer fighting againſt the truth and a giving of the ſpirit of God the lye, as in the ſequell will be evidenced.

Our Saviour in the 3 of John verſe 20. 21. ſaith, That hee that doth the works of darkneſſe, ſhunns the light; but he that doth truth, cometh to the light, &c. Truly I may juſtly accuſe I. S. and his fraternity of this ſin, that they not only ſhun the light themſelvs but hinder others alſo from it, and do whatſoever in them lies to keep men from the knowledg of the truth and from prying into their errors, that by this means they may atttain unto their own ends, and therefore they not onelyonly diſp…rage all the Presbyterians, and with their calumnies labour to make them odious to the people as ſo many railors and perſecutors, for ſo they call us, that they may neither hear their Sermons, nor read any books written by them, or any thing penned againſt their Novelties by thoſe of that party; and all this to abuſe the ſimple people, that by this their art they may with-hold the truth from them in unrighteouſneſſe: And in this facultie are all the Independents very expert who cunningly either pick and chooſe or curtalize and adulterate all a guments that are brought againſt them, or elſe totally paſſe them over with ſlightings, when they can no way with any reaſon reply unto them. And as they are generally void of all good learning and ſciences, ſo there is neither ingenuity, candor or honeſty amongſt the moſt of them, theſe excellent graces and vertues being now ſtrangers to thoſe of the congregationall way, amongſt the which fraud and juglings and all manner of diſſimulation and railing are the only maſter pieces of their craft, by which they maintain and uphold their way and foment their errors; for ſhould they deal fairly with us and not diſſwade the people from reading our books and hearing our godly and painfull Miniſters, and would they but ſet down our arguments and reaſons in their full ſtrength, the people would not onelyonly ſpeedily ſee their errors but relinquiſh them. And therfore they all take ſpeciall care to keep the people in ignorance; and amongſt thoſe Artificers and Craf…ſ-men of that new Goddeſſe that Diana of Independency, this J. S. though in all good learning he be a very novice, yet in this craft of jugling he is pretily expert. And that all men may ſee I do not falſly accuſe him, I will firſt ſet down the ſum of my arguments taken from the multitudes baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt, and and then ſet down in what terms he delivers them, with his vain and impious anſwer to them.

p. 83The ſumme of my Arguments is this.

Where there was an infinitemultitude, or a mighty City of beleevers, there they could not all meete together in one place or roome or in one congregation to injoy all acts of worſhip for edification; but in the Church of Ieruſalem, by the very baptiſme and preaching of Iohn, there was an infinit multitude and a very City of believers; ergo they could not all meete together in any one congregation.

This is the ſum of my firſt Argument. The ſecond is this.

Where there was ſuch an infinite company and multitude of Chriſtians and believers, as kept a tyrannicall King in awe and all the Magiſtrates and Elders, in whoſe hands was all the power and authority; and ſtruck ſuch a terror into them all, as they durſt not exerciſe their cruelty and tyranny over them, though they were their inveterate enemies, there of neceſſity the number of them muſt be ſo great, as they could not all meet together in one place or congregation to partake in all Acts of worſhip. But, in the Church of Jeruſalem there was ſuch a company of believers by the very baptiſme of Iohn; ergo they could not all meete together in any one place or congregation.

This is the ſumme of my arguments, which I made good out of the Word of God, and from ſound reaſon, as they that have read my booke with judgement, I am confident will acknowledge.

Now heare how J. S. ſetteth them downe with his anſwer to them pag. the 8. and 9. of his booke.

The Doctors firſt propoſition is (ſaith he) that there were many Congregations and ſeverall aſſemblies in the Church of Jeruſalem &c. for proofe whereof (ſaith he) he bringeth the multitudes of Converts to Iohns Baptiſme; the people of Jeruſalem, all of them; and all Iudaea &c. whereby (ſaith he) all became Chriſtians, or members of the Chriſtian Church: for Iohns baptiſme was into Ieſus Chriſt, and the very ſame with that of the Apoſtles. Thus I. S. ſets downe my Arguments, which I affirme, is not candidly done of him: for the ignorant Reader cannot ſee into the ſtrength of my arguments, they being delivered in ſuch obſcure tearmes, and ſet down alſo to the halves, the whole truth not being ſpecified. For not one of ten thouſand had ever ſeene or read my book, & I dare ſay, not one of an hundred of the Independents had ever vouchſafed ſo much as to looke into it; for I was made ſo odious unto them by their blaſting language, as they abhorred my p. 84very name: with all howſoever they boaſted at the firſt coming of it out, that there were twenty pens at worke in anſwering of it, yet not one of them ever appeared, till three moneths after it was printed. Now all the Copyes that were printed were all gone in one weeke, ſo that the anſwers coming out ſo long after, and my arguments not being known to the people, and being in this obſcure manner and in ſuch darke expreſſions, and but to the halves ſet down, every vulgar underſtanding can never ſee into the weight and ſtrength of them, eſpecially, they having not my booke before them.

And to ſay the truth, all the Independents ordinarily uſe this method in their pretended anſwers, as firſt, to let the bookes they reply unto be forgotten, and after that to blurte out ſomething againſt them, concealing the truth, and then they crow out as victors and conquerers, that they have beate up our quarters and puld downe the pillars of our diſcourſe, as I S. doth vainly in this his Pamplet, when it will appeare to all intelligible men that he hath onelyonly caſt a ſquib or two at them, and then as a meere freſh water Souldier ſpeedily ran away, and left that worke to others, as he unaduiſedly in the tenth page and in his wiſe Epiſtle confeſſeth, ſayning indiſpoſition of body, when indeede it was his want of wit, learning, honeſty, and courage.

As I haveſet downe the ſum of my Arguments, and compared his expreſſing of my meaning, with it; I will alſo ſet downe the ſumme of his anſwer to them, which he giveth in the name of all the Independents, ſaying, we anſwerd to your reaſon; and then ſet downe his own words in their full length, that all men may ſee my faire dealing with him. For I. S. doth not here deny my minor as Maſter Knollys did, or accuſe me of falſe Muſters as he vainely and impiouſly doth in his anſwer to my ſecond Arguments. But plainly denieth that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn Baptiſt were Chriſtians, to whom my brother Burton aſſenteth, page 16. of his book ſaying that thoſe beleevers that were baptized by Iohn Baptiſt into Chriſt to come, according to the Papiſts doctrine, were not formed into a Chriſtian Church, or Churches, as after Chriſts reſurrection Chriſtians were. Theſe are my brother Burtons formall words, who not only aſſenteth to I. S. in this his opinion, but alſo bringeth in the authority of the Papiſts to confirme this their doctrine, and ſo in this the Independents p. 85agree with the Papiſts to overthrow the truth, and to maintain their abominable errors.

And this I conceive, was the cauſe that moved my brother Burton in the ninth page of his booke in the beginning of his anſwer, to ſay, `as for your indefinite enumeration of thoſe multitudes baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt and Chriſts Diſciples, we take no notice of them. This is his expreſſion there, concerning the which in due place. Surely if my brother Burton had thought them Chriſtians, he would have demeed them worthy to have been taken notice of: but in this he agreeth with I. S. and the Papiſts.

Now I will give you the ſumme of I. S. his Arguments, in way of anſwer, by which he denieth that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt were Chriſtians.

The firſt is becauſe (ſaith he) they were baptiſed into Chriſt that was to dye, and not dead; therefore in his dialect they were no Chriſtians.

The ſecond, they were not baptized with the holy Ghoſt and with fire; therefore thy were no Chrſtians.

The third, they were no more Chriſtians then the Iewes that paſſed through the red Sea; but they were no Chriſtians; ergo they alſo that were baptized by Iohn were no Chriſtians.

The fourth, The baptiſme of Iohn was not perfect, ergo thoſe that were baptiſed by him were no Chriſtians.

The fifth, thoſe that were baptized by Iohn, did not only haſitate, but were ſcandalized at the true Meſſiah, and under the forme of Iohns baptiſme did fight againſt the true baptiſme and baptiſer the Lord Jeſus: ergo they were no Chriſtians.

Sixthly, they that were baptized by Iohn were not caſt into a Church mould, according to the New▪teſtament forme, neither were they members of one Chriſtian Church at Jeruſalem, ergo they were not Chriſtians; and this Argument is brought in by way of a corallary.

This muſt needs be the ſcope of his anſwer, or elſe he ſayth nothing to the purpoſe in denying my Arguments, which were not only to prove, that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn Baptiſt were Chriſtians and beleevers, but alſo that they were in ſuch multitudes as they could not all poſſibly meete in any one place, or congregation to communicate in all the Ordinances and all Acts of worſhip to edification. The dint and force of the which Argument, p. 86he thinkes he ſufficiently evadeth, by denying that they were Chriſtians at all. So that if this Anſwer be well looked into and examined, it will appeare that whiles he boaſteth and glorieth that he hath beate up my quarters, he beates up Saint Iohns quarters, yea Chriſts quarters, and all his Diſciples quarters before Chriſts death and Aſcenſion, and all the quarters of all Chriſtians that now live in the world: For if none are well Baptiſed and made Chriſtians indeede, but ſuch as are Baptiſed with the Holy Ghoſt and with fire, then all thoſe that were baptiſed before Chriſts Aſcenſion were no true Chriſtians, nor no Chriſtians in theſe our times, nor many Generations before us, who were not baptiſed by the Holy Ghoſt and with fire; and by theſe his fond cavills he overthroweth the Scripture it ſelf and all Divine and humane Authority, and gives the Spirit of God the lye.

And truly ſuch a peece of impious ignorance with ſuch impudent confidence my eyes yet never beheld before I. S. and his complices came into the World. So that it ſtranges me eceedingly that ſuch men as he and they are, ſhould be ſuffered by thoſe of the Congregationall way to go unpuniſhed, who may ſhame them all, as indeed they are a ſhame to all Chriſtian Religion: For I appeale to the judgement of all ſuch as have any knowledge in Religion or love to the truth, or have any moderation or good temper yet left in them, whether this be a thing tolerable in any that has the name of a Chriſtian, to play not only the juglers, to deceive and delude the poore people, but to give the Spirit of God the lye, and then to vapour and brag of it as of a conqueſt?

But now I will ſet downe his Arguments in his owne words, and give my anſwer to them ſeverally. We (ſaith he) anſwer to your reaſons. So that he writes in the name of all the Independents, as one of the Commanders and Captaines in their Militia, and as one of their Champions, and therefore in the name of them all, ſayeth, We anſwer to your reaſons. Now take notice what he anſwers in the name of the whole Fraternity.

1. Iohns Baptiſme, was into Chriſt, but it was in Chriſtum moriturum, not in Chriſtum mortuum. This is J. S. his firſt anſwer. Truly one that ſhould but looke on all his Anſwers to my Arguments, would wonder what the man meant by them, and to what p. 87purpoſe he uttered theſe words: for they are a manifeſt fighting againſt the Scripture of truth; as all the judicious and learned will wel perceive. And I have heard both learned & pious men ſay, that they did not beleeve, that I. S. did well underſtand himſelfe when he writ this book: and there is ſome reaſon of this their opinion: for hee confeſſeth in his wiſe Epiſtle, that hee was in a courſe of Phyſick at the wels; & who knowes but the man might then be ſomewhat diſtemperd in his braine, and ſo might doe the actions of a man craſed? and his very language doth in a manner ſpeake as much, both in this his Anſwer, and in many other paſſages of his Book, as in their due places will appeare, yea the very title alſo, and his Epiſtle being ſenſeleſſe, calling his Pamphlet Flagellum flagelli, and the beating up of Doctor Baſtwicks quarters, when he never came nigh them, and the taking hold and ſhaking of the Pillars of his diſcourſe, when hee never ſo much as touched them, with many ſuch other expreſſions, all which have no correſpondency amongſt themſelves, and ſhewes that the man is either a very ſtranger in Rhetorick, not knowing how to keep himſelfe to his Metaphor, or elſe that hee is craſed indeed; and truly ſo every one will conceive, if they duly weigh and conſider all paſſages in his booke; eſpecially this anſwer of his to my Arguments: by which hee labours to prove that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt were no Chriſtians, no Beleevers; which he doth by very ſenſeleſſe reaſons: the firſt of which I have related, viz. that they were baptized into Chriſt to dye and not dead, and therefore in his opinion they were no Chriſtians. I omit his latine expreſſion, as thinking it a vaine thing in him to inſert latine ſentences writing in the vulgar tongue, eſpecially in handling points of divinity, & thoſe of great concernment, which the people ſhould have ſet before them in perſpicuous and plaine termes.

But now take notice how the man contradicteth himſelfe in his anſwer; for the drift of it is to prove, that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt were no Chriſtians, and yet hee ſayeth, they were baptized into Chriſt. Then they were Chriſtians by his owne confeſſion, for Ieſus Chriſt was yeſterday, and to day, and the ſame for ever, Heb. 13. and He was ever the Meſſiah, the ſeed of the woman that ſhould breake the Serpents head, that Rocke upon which the Church was built, againſt which the gates of Hell ſhould never prevaile, Mat. 16. So that they that were baptized p. 88into Ieſus Chriſt, whether whiles hee was living or dead, whether before his Nativity, death or aſcenſion, or after, are all good Chriſtians; therefore he contradicteth himſelfe in ſaying they were not Chriſtians; for it is not the circumſtance of time that makes an alteration in the ſubſtance and eſſence of any thing: for the Paſſeover in Egypt, was the ſame for ſubſtance that it was in the Wilderneſſe, and in the land of Canaan; for otherwiſe it ſhould follow that the Supper of the Lord celebrated by Chriſt himſelfe before his paſſion, and in memoriall of his death, ſhould not be the ſame with that it was after Chriſts Reſurrection and Aſcenſion; and that the Apoſtles that received the Lords Supper, were not Chriſtians then as well as after his death, which I thinke I. S. will not dare affirme; but if he ſhould, I am confident all the well grounded Chriſtians in the world would be his adverſaries in this; for the Apoſtle Saint Paul in the 1. of the Corinth. 11. 23, 24, 25. makes them all one for ſubſtance; and as the Sacrament of the Lords Supper was the ſame for eſſence before Chriſts death that it was after, ſo was the Sacrament of Baptiſme, to all that were baptized; and hee was as good a Chriſtian that was baptized in to Chriſt before his death, as hee that was baptized into him after his Aſcenſion, as all good reaſon will perſwade; for Chriſt was ever the Meſſiah and King of his Church; which will yet more evidently appeare, if wee compare earthly things with heavenly.

I demand therefore of I. S. or any of the congregationall way, whether all ſuch ſubjects as take the oath of allegiance, or ſweare fealty to any King, who is owned by the people and whole Kingdome to be their lawfull King, as appointed and ſet over them of God, and is openly proclamed through the whoſe Realm to be their King, though at that time hee be in an other Countrey, and but now comming to take the poſſeſſion of his Kingdome, I ſay I demand whether ſuch ſubjects as take the oath of allegeance and ſware fealty unto him, before he comes and ſits viſibly upon his Throne, be not by this their oath become that Kings ſubjects, as truly and as really, as if the King were bodily preſent? I demand further, when hee is in perſon come into his Kingdome, and viſibly amongſt them, ſaluted and entertained and owned by the people for their King, whether or no thoſe ſubjects that then take their oath of allegeance, and promiſe by that their oath their ſubjection p. 89unto him, bee not as really and truly his ſubjects, as thoſe that after hee is inaugurated and gone into one of his other Kingdomes, take then the oath of allegeance, and ſware ſubjection unto him in all his juſt commands? I am confident that all men that are but a little skilled in politicks, or any good learning, will acknowledge, that either of the former ſubjects, are as truly and really ſubjects unto him though they never ſaw him (as many hundred thouſands never did their Kings) as thoſe that tooke the oath when hee was gone in triumph into an other of his Kingdomes. And thus it was with thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt, that great Officer of Chriſts kingdome, and the bleſſed Apoſtle, thoſe Stewards, Secretaries, privie Counſellors, & Embaſſadours of his Royaltie, who all baptized thoſe that came unto them into Ieſus Chriſt the King and Meſſiah, as well before his death as after, and all they owned him as well then for their King as after, crying Hoſanna thou ſonne of David, and ſtrowing their garments in the way, ſaying, Bleſſed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord, peace in Heaven, and glory in the Higheſt, Luke 19. verſ. 4. and therefore it is a ſenſleſſe reaſon, yea contradictory unto it ſelfe that I. S. bringeth, conſidering there is no difference for the ſubſtance of the matter, though there be ſome variety in reſpect of the circumſtance of time; and in this fond error of I. S. is my brother Burton and the Papiſts, who thinke there was a great difference between the Baptiſme before Chriſts death and that after his death, when indeed for ſubſtance there was none, no more then was betweene the Sacrament of the Lords Supper before Chriſts death and after. And therefore all thoſe that received either of thoſe Sacraments or both of them before his paſſion, were as good Chriſtians as thoſe that received them after; for hee was owned by them at that time to be the Lambe of God that was to take away the ſins of the world of beleevers, and to be the King of the Iews, the Saviour of his people, to be the anoynted Chriſt, & they took the Sacraments upon it, which is as much as the oath of allegeance to any King, which were ſufficient to make them as good Chriſtians as any that ſhould come after them, and therefore they that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt into Chriſt to dye, which I. S. doth acknowledge, they were all as good Chriſtians as any now baptized by the Independents; and therefore that hee faith to the contrary and in oppoſition p. 90to this truth is a meer babble and a contradiction of himſelfe. And this ſhall ſuffice to have ſpoke to his firſt anſwer to prove that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt were as good Chriſtians as any other that were baptized after Chriſts death.

His ſecond is as ſenſeleſſe, which is this. To ſay (ſaith he) that the Baptiſme of Iohn was the ſame with Chriſts and the Apoſtles, is flat contrary to the aſſertion of Iohn himſelfe and the Apoſtles, Mat. 21. 25. Act. 18. 25. I baptize you with water (ſaith he) but there comes one after me, who ſhall baptize with the Holy Ghoſt, and with fire. Theſe are the words of his ſecond argument to prove that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt were no Chriſtians. In the entrance of this his anſwer he beats the ayre, and fights with his owne ſhadow and falſifies my words; for I never ſaid nor thought it, that the Baptiſme of Iohn was the ſame with Chriſts; for the Scripture relateth that Chriſt baptized not at all, Iohn 4. verſ. 2. I ſaid indeed, it was the ſame with the Apoſtles, and that is manifeſt out of many places of the holy Scriptures, as out of the 3. of Luke, ver. 2. & Iohn the 1. v. 33. where Iohn himſelf ſpeaking ſaith, hee that ſent mee to baptize with water, the ſame ſaid unto me, &c. Yea one of thoſe places quoted by himſelfe, Matth. 21. verſ. 25. ſufficiently declares that Iohn had his Commiſſion from God himſelf, (whoſe Prophet he was) to baptize with water, and the Apoſtles themſelves before Chriſts death and Aſcention baptized but with water, and had no other Commiſſion but that Saint Iohn the Baptiſt had, and Iohn baptized with the Baptiſme of Repentance, ſaying unto the people, that they ſhould beleeve on him which ſhould come after him that is on Chriſt Ieſus, Act. 19. verſ. 4. and the very Apoſtles Baptiſme before Chriſts death vvas no other but the Baptiſme of repentance and to beleeve in Chriſt; yea faith and repentance was the ſumme of all the Preaching, both of Iohn and of all the holy Apoſtles, both before Chriſts death and after, as wee may ſee, Acts 20. verſ. 21. where the Apoſtle ſaith, Teſtifying both to the Iewes, and alſo to the Greeks, repentance towards God, and faith towards our Lord Ieſus Chriſt. Now when the Baptiſme of Saint Iohn and the Apoſtles, both before Chriſts death and after was all one for ſubſtance, and all into Chriſt, as wee may yet further ſee, Acts the 8. 16. where it is ſaid they were baptized in the name of the Lord Ieſus. It was no error in mee to ſay that the Baptiſme of Iohn was into Chriſt Ieſus, and the very ſame with that of the Apoſtles, for the Holy Ghoſt which is the p. 91ſpirit of truth hath ſo taught mee: and therefore all thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt were as good Chriſtians and beleevers as thoſe that were baptized by the Apoſtles, if repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Ieſus Chriſt, and being baptized into him could make good Chriſtians; which were blaſphemy to gain-ſay, and nothing elſe but to give the ſpirit of God the lye: and therefore J. S. affirming that there was a difference between the Baptiſme of Iohn and that of the Apoſtles, and denying that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn were Chriſtians, gives the ſpirit of God the lye: for the holy word of God which was penned by his ſpirit aſſerteth the contrary: And for that text that he citeth out of the third of Matthew, where Iohn ſaith, I baptize you with water, but there comes one after me who ſhall baptize you with the Holy Ghoſt and with fire; this is nothing to his purpoſe nor nothing againſt my opinion: For, as I ſaid before, it was never my beliefe that the baptiſme of Chriſt and Iohns baptiſme was all one, ſeeing Saint Iohn the Baptist hath taught the contrary, as in the words alledged it is ſufficiently declared: But I demand of I. S. whether the Apoſtles, all whoſe names were written in heaven, were not as good Chriſtians and Beleevers in Jeſus Chriſt by Iohns baptiſme, before they had received the gifts of the Holy Ghoſt, and were baptized with fire (which we read of Act. the 2.) as they were after the cloven tongues appeared unto them? ver. 3. If either he or any of his fraternity ſhall deny it, then they muſt deny the ſixteenth chapter of Matthew and the ſixt of Saint Iohn, where we finde that honourable confeſſion of all the Apoſtles where they teſtifie their faith in Chriſt into whom they had been baptized before that, yea they muſt deny the whole Scriptures of the New Teſtament which affirme the contrary: And if the baptizing of any with the Holy Ghoſt and with fire be that thing onelyonly that makes men Chriſtians and Beleevers, then none that were not ſo baptized were good chriſtians: for the gifts of the Holy Ghoſt as the diverſity of tongues and working of miracles, were not promiſcuous and given to all as Saint Paul doth ſufficiently declare, 1 Cor. 12. 30. Have all the gifts of healing? Do all ſpeak with tongues? So that all the people were not baptized with the Holy Ghoſt; and therefore by I. S. his learning were no chriſtians: Neither was that the worke of the Apoſtles, but it was Chriſts work onelyonly who firſt breathed the ſpirit upon the Apoſtles p. 92and after his aſcen…ion firſt poured down thoſe gifts upon them, Acts the 2. and after that at many other times through the prayer of the Apoſtles and putting on of their hands upon the Beleevers Chriſt for the confirmation of their Miniſtry, and to manifeſt to all thoſe that were converted by them that they were ſent by him, ſhed down thoſe miraculous graces upon many, but gave them not to all; and it is alſo declared that they firſt believed and then they were baptized with the Holy Ghoſt; and wee have but one Preſident that I remember in the holy Scripture, that any received the gifts of the Holy Ghoſt, before they were baptized with water, and that is thoſe of Cornelius his houſe: but all the reſt were baptized with water before. And therefore thoſe gifts made them not Chriſtians but declared them to be beleevers, and were the effects of their faith, which notwithſtanding were not conferred by the Apoſtles, but were immediately given by the ſpirit of Chriſt: So that thoſe viſible gifts were not eſſentiall for the making of any Chriſtians and Beleevers; for they were alwayes Beleevers before they received them; and if thoſe gifts had been eſſentiall and abſolutely neceſſary for the making of any Chriſtians, then all that had received them ſhould have been ſaved, which they were not; beſides then, many hundred thouſands of the primitive Chriſtians ſhould not have been true Beleevers and Chriſtians indeed; for all men generally received them not (as I proved before) and all the Chriſtians, for ought I know, ſince the Primitive times, and all that now live ſhould be no good Chriſtians: for they were not and now are not baptized with the holy Ghoſt & with fire. So that al men may ſee with how little reaſon this I. S. ſpeaketh in theſe his argumenta…ions, and how vain and impious he is in all his cavills: this ſhall ſuffice to have ſpoke concerning his ſecond anſwer. And now I come to his third, which is as good as the two former: His words are theſe.

3. Therefore now, (ſaith I. S.) by Iohns baptiſme they were not all made Chriſtians no more then the body of the Iewes before John were turned Chriſtians by being baptized in the red Sea &c. For they were baptized into Chriſt by their baptiſme, 1 Cor. 10. 3. I deny not but this baptiſme of John was to prepare men for Chriſt, and did beare a more immediate relation to ſuch a worke, then any Ordinance before, but it did not make them abſolute Chriſtians. It did not abſolve and perfect the new Church, I mean not ſo far as that Ordinance of baptiſme was to do afterwards.

p. 93Thus I. S. blaſphemeth rather then diſputeth: For that he ſaith is impious in the higheſt degree; for it is an apparent giving of the ſpirit of truth the lye, and a confuting of Chriſt himſelfe and Saint Paul, and an oppoſing of the generality of all the Independents, as every underſtanding man will eaſily gather: for the Scripture everywhere and all the orthodox Divines, yea and all the Independents that ever I talked with or read of before I. S. and my Brother Burton, acknowledge that thoſe that were baptized by the Baptiſt and Chriſts Diſciples before Chriſts death, were Chriſtians and Beleevers; for otherwiſe they could not have been baptized. Notwithſtanding I. S. out of his learning denyeth not onelyonly that they were Chriſtians, but affirmeth alſo that thoſe that were baptized by Moſes in the red Sea were no Chriſtians; whether therefore this be not to beat up the quarters of Iohn the Baptiſt, Chriſt himſelfe and the quarters of Moſes the ſervant of the Lord, and of all the Independents, and to pull down the very pillars of the holy Scriptures; and be not a horrid blaſphemy in I. S. I leave to the judgement of the learned! Our ſaviour ſaith Luk. the 7. v. 29. 30. And all the people that heard him, & the Publicans juſtified God, being baptized with the baptiſme of John, but the Phariſees and & Lawyers rejected the Councel of God againſt themſelves being not baptized of him. Here we have Chriſts teſtimony, who aſſerteth that (the Lawyers and Phariſees only excepted) all that heard Iohn of which innumerable multitudes of them came from Jeruſalem, for all Ieruſalem went out to him, did juſtifie God and did not reject his Councell, that is to ſay, they were Believers; for the councel of God in the miniſtry of Saint Iohn to all the people was, that they ſhould repent and believe in the Meſſiah and in token of their faith that they ſhould be baptized; now this ſweet councell for the obtaining of free grace and favour offered unto them by God, in the miniſtry of Iohn did the Phariſees and Lawyers reject to their own perdition; for they would not bring forth fruits meet for repentance, that is they would neither believe in the Meſſiah nor repent nor be baptized; and therefore as a company of Infidels and unbeleevers they deſpiſed the councell of God and his grace and favour; but all the other that heard Iohn ſaith Chriſt, juſtified God, and did not reject his councell, that is, they acknowledged that God was juſt, faithfull, mercifull and gracious, and therefore beleeved his promiſes and repented and were baptized and were all as good p. 94Chriſtians and Beleevers as any were, if any credit may be given to Chriſts words. Whether therefore we ought rather to beleeve the words of Chriſt and his teſtimony or I. S. his language, I refer it to the judgement of the adviſed reader! Chriſt declareth they were Beleevers and Chriſtians, for they juſtified God and rejected not his councel, but imbraced his grace and favour and free mercy; I. S. ſaith the contrary. It is true that the name of Chriſtian, was not given to beleevers, till they were called ſo at Antioch, yet to beleeve, in Chriſt and to be baptized into Chriſt, made them as well Chriſtians before his ſuffering as after; for otherwiſe Abel, Enoch, Noah, Moſes, Abraham, David and all thoſe Martyrs ſpoke of Hebrewes the eleventh, and all thoſe baptized by the Apoſtles before Chriſts death, ſhould not have bin Chriſtians, which were wickedneſſe to think, when the Scripture affirmeth that they not only lived by faith, but did all thoſe wonders by vertue of their faith in Chriſt, and that they all injoyed the promiſes; and therefore it muſt neceſſarily follow they were Chriſtians, as all beleeving in Chriſt and living and dying in that faith. So that howſoever they had not the name of chriſtians and were not ſo called which makes nothing againſt the reality of the thing, for we contend not about words, yet they were all true chriſtians, they being all built upon that Corner ſtone and upon the foundation Jeſus Chriſt, and differing nothing for the eſſence and ſubſtance or object of their faith from any that did ſucceed them in all ages to come.

And therefore I. S. affirming that by the baptiſme of Iohn the beleevers then were not made Chriſtians, and that the Iſraelits Baptiſed by Moſes in the cloude were no Chriſtians, overthrowes the holy Scriptures and gives Chriſt the lye, and confutes Paul himſelf who in the 10. of the 1 of the Cor. ver. 1. 2. 3. affirmes, that our fathers were under the cloude, and all paſſed through the Sea and were all baptiſed by Moſes in the cloude and in the Sea, and all eate the ſame ſpirituall meate, and did all drink the ſame ſpirituall drinke (for they all drank of the ſame ſpiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Chriſt) by the which teſtimony of the Apoſtle they were as good Chriſtians: as the Corinthians; for he comparing them together, ſheweth that they were equall to them in priviledges, and were as good Chriſtians as they, according to that of Peter Acts the 15. verſ. 9. and put no difference between us and them purifying their hearts by faith; & as he had proved that the Iſraelits were equall in p. 95Priviledges with the Corinthians, and all other Chriſtians, ſo he declareth likewiſe if the Corinthians and all other Chriſtians did offend againſt God as the Iſraelites did, they ſhould likewiſe be equall to them in puniſhments: For God was no respector of perſons, but as inevery nation he that feareth God & worketh righteouſneſſe is accepted of him, Acts 10. ver. 35: ſo whatſoever Chriſtians, of what Nation ſo ever, whether Iewer or Gentiles ſhall offend as the Iſraelites did, they ſhall be equally puniſhed. So that by the witneſſe and teſtimony of Paul in this tenth chapter of the 1 of the Cor. and the 11. of the Hebrewes, and from the above cited Scriptures all our fathers under the cloude and all the Patriarkes, and all thoſe Martyrs, and all thoſe that were baptiſed by the Baptiſt and Chriſt Diſciples, were all as good Chriſtians as any Baptized after Chriſts death or now by thoſe of the Congregationall way or any Chriſtians in the world; and all that I here ſay is moſt true if any beliefe may be given to the holy Word of God. And therefore I. S. affirming the contrary blaſphemeth. And now I come to his fourth Argument. Which is this.

The learned and judicious know (ſaith he) that Iohn was but the Meſſenger before Chriſt Mal. 3. ver. 1. And his baptiſme was but as the ſtreaming of light in the Heavens before the day, and he did only bring and reſtore all things to their legall perfection by water, the element of the law; but Chriſt Ieſus he comes and Baptizes with fire, conſummats all things with this transforming powerfull element, even his ſpirit, Thus I. S. ſpeaketh.

To examine all the errors in theſe words, would take up much time, and require a large diſcourſe, but I ſtudy brevity. As for the firſt part of this his anſwer, where he ſaith, the learned and Iudicious know, that Iohn was but the Meſſenger before Chriſt, &c. it is a peece of vanity in him to produce the teſtimony of men to prove that Iohn was a Meſſenger of Chriſt, when the holy Scripture in many places aſſertsit, and when Chriſt himſelf hath declared that Iohn the Baptiſt was that Elias that was foretold ſhould prepare the way before the Lord and make his pathes ſtraight: but this I may truly ſay of I. S. that he is a meere ſtranger in all good learning and as ignorant in all Divinity and in the holy Word of God, as thoſe judicious he ſpeakes of, were ſingularly excellent and mighty in the Scriptures and all ſound theologie, whoſe works and godly ſolid writings, if ever he had read with underſtanding, p. 96he could never have bin ſo prodigiouſly blaſphemous as he is in all his diſcourſe and chiefly in theſe his anſwers: for there is not any one of them in which there is not great impiety to be diſcovered: as in this to accuſe Iohns Baptiſme and Miniſtry of imperfection, and to ſay they were but as the ſtreamingsoflight in the Heavens before the day, when notwithſtanding Chriſt himſelf hath often given ſo many honourable teſtimonies of Iohn, and his Miniſtry, ſaying in the 5. of Iohn 32. that he bare witneſſe of him, and that his witneſſe was true, and in the 35. ver. in expreſſe words affirming that he was a burning and ſhining light, and that the Iews for a ſeaſon did rejoyce in his light. And yet I. S. boldly and peremptorily affirmeth that the Baptiſme of Iohn was but as the ſtreamings of light, and that they were not conſummate Chriſtians that were baptiſed by him. Who ſhall we beleeve? I. S. or Ieſus Chriſt? Chriſt ſaith Iohn was a burning and ſhining light. I. S. ſayeth he was but as the ſtreaming of light; if this be not to give Chriſt the lye, I know not what it is! Chriſt in the ſeventh chapter of Luke and the 28. verſe, ſayth, That Iohn the Baptiſt was the greateſt Prophet that was ever borne of women. Then, he was inferior in his Miniſtry to none of them, no not to Moſes himſelf, of whom the author to the Hebrewes chap. 3. verſ. 5. ſaith with a verily, that he was faithfull in all the houſe of God as a ſervant for a teſtimony of thoſe things that were to be ſpoken after. Now if Moſes did his worke perfectly, as he did, and baptized thoſe perfectly in the Cloude and in the ſea as Paul aſſerteth 1 Cor. 10. and did all he did in perfection and according to the paterne ſhewed him in the Mount and according to the will of God, and did perfectly conſummate his Miniſtry, then Iohn the Baptiſt alſo did the like, for Chriſt ſaith that amongſt thoſe that are borne of women, there is not a greater Prophet then Iohn the Baptiſt: that is there was not one more faithfull and that did his worke more compleatly and with more perfection: which Chriſts owne words in the third of Matthew do yet more fully declare verſ. 15. ſaying ſuffer it to be ſo now: for thus it becommeth us to fulfill all righteouſneſſe. Now if the Baptiſt did fulfill all righteouſneſſe in his Miniſtry, then he did it compleatly and made thoſe that were baptized by him perfect, compleat and conſummated Chriſtians; for he in his Office, fulfilled all righteouſneſſe; if therefore there were any imperfection p. 97(as I. S. ſaith) in the Baptiſme and Miniſtry of Iohn, then he did not fulfill all righteouſneſſe, and then Chriſts words ſhould not be true, which is a high point of blaſphemy to thinke, much more to ſay and print as I. S. doth: for he that fulfills all righteouſneſſe in his Office doth it perfectly and compleatly, but Iohn did ſo: ergo all thoſe that he baptized were compleat Chriſtians. I demand therefore of I. S. my brother Burton and of all the Independents, whether Chriſt was well baptized, or no by Iohn the Baptiſt? I preſum they will not deny but that he was perfectly baptized. And if Chriſt himſelfe was well baptized, then all that were baptized by John were alſo well baptized and were perfect and compleat Chriſtians, for John was ſent of God to baptize; and he obeyed Gods command in this his Miniſtry, and in that alſo fulfilled all righteouſneſſe, and therefore all thoſe that were baptized by Iohn & by the Apoſtles before Chriſts death and aſcenſion, were as perfect Chriſtians as any that were baptized after Chriſts reſurrection; and if they were not well baptized then Chriſt was not well baptized, which were high impiety to affirme; neither will I ever be induced to beleeve, that Iohn Baptiſt did not know as well how to make compleat Chriſtians, as I. S. or as any of the Independent Miniſters; for I know Iohn was ſent of God for this worke, and that he fulfilled all righteouſneſſe in it, and I know alſo that he was faithfull in his Miniſtry to the death, and feared not the face of Herod nor of any Mortall creature: for all this the Scripture aſcertanieth unto me; but that our Independent Miniſters were ever ſent of God, and bid to ſet up their new lights and to preach, up their congregationall way or a toleration of all Religions, I doubt it. For firſt I know that they ranne back-ward, and forward, to and fro, before they were ever ſent, and that they preach that they were never commanded from God, and that when they ſhould have preached andſtood to witnes the truth, many of them ran away and deſerted it and did not ſtand to it as Iohn Baptiſt did, but like thoſe hirelings Chriſt ſpeaks of, Iohn the tenth, when they ſaw the Wolfe comming, cowardly ranne away, and left their poore flocks to the fury of thoſe beaſts and many of them now have left their flocks in the wilderneſſe and have deſerted their charges contrary to the command of God Acts 20. verſ. 28. who ſaith by the Apoſtle Take heede therefore unto your ſelves, and to all the p. 98flocke, over which the holy Ghoſt hath made you Biſhops, to feeds the Church of God, which he hath purchaſed with his own bloud. In all theſe reſpects, and many more that I could name, I greatly doubt whether the Independent Miniſters were ever ſent of God: but for Iohn, I know he was, and I know in like manner that he fulfilled all righteouſneſſe in his Miniſtery, and made thoſe he Baptized perfect Chriſtian; I know likewiſe that he made innumerable multitudes of them, and that Jeruſalem came out and was Baptized alſo, which when I. S. denyeth I aſſert he is a wicked and blaſphemous fellow, and that if he had his due deſerts, he ought to be ſpued not only out of their ſeven new churches here in London, but out of all their ſeverall new fangled congregations through the Kingdome as an Alien and ſtranger from the common-wealth of all learning and goodneſſe. And this ſhall ſuffice to have ſpoke to the fourth learned anſwer. I now come to the fifth as good as the reſt; his words are theſe.

So farre was it (ſaith he) that all that were Baptized by Iohn, were made Chriſtians, that even Iohns owne Diſciples (who had the beſt and frequenteſt inſtruction) not onelyonly heſitated, but were right downe ſcandalized at the true Meſſias Iohn 3. ver. 26. and others did under the forme of Iohns baptiſme, fight againſt the true baptiſme and baptizer the Lord Ieſus. So that I conceive (ſaith he) this Argument (were it granted that all the people received Iohns baptiſme) will ſtand in little ſteade to prove the concluſion, viz: that they were made Chriſtians, much leſſe cast into a Church mould, according to the New Teſtament forme, and leaſt of all that they were all members of one Chriſtian Church at Ieruſalem. Theſe are his formall expreſſions, by which he laboureth to prove, that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt were no Chriſtians; in theſe his words there is a double Argument by which he indeavours to unchriſtian all thoſe that were Baptiſed by the Baptiſt. The firſt is, becauſe as he falſly ſuppoſeth they were enimies of Chriſt. The ſecond is in that they were not rightly moulded. So that in this his laſt Paragraffe or Section, we have two Arguments together. Which being added to the former make up ſix in all, by which the profound diſputant J. S. unchurches and unchriſti…ns all thoſe that were baptiſed by John. Now becauſe I. S. and his complices do place ſo much ſtrength in theſe two laſt Arguments, I ſhall deſire the reader the more p. 99ſeriouſly to weigh and conſider them with the concluſions deduced from them by I. S. and my reply to them.

Firſt whereas hee denieth that all that were baptized by Iohn were made Chriſtians, as it is a begging of the queſtion, ſo in his thus ſpeaking hee overthrows the whole Miniſtry of Iohn the Baptiſt, and contradicts the Holy Scriptures, and all thoſe places I quoted out of them in my former reply; and which is more, hee contradicteth himſelfe: for hee confeſſeth that Iohn Baptized in to Chriſt, and he baptized none, as all the Independents acknowledge, but beleevers; therefore they were Chriſtians by his owne confeſſion; and yet here as often formerly he denieth they were Chriſtians. But becauſe I have ſpoke of this before, I will now come to his reaſons. His firſt reaſon, to prove they were not Chriſtians, is, becauſe (ſaith he) Iohns owne Diſciples (who had the beſt and frequenteſt inſtruction) not only heſitated, that is doubted, but were right downe ſcandalized at the Meſſiah. The ſecond is becauſe others did under the forme of Iohns Baptiſme, fight againſt the true baptiſme and the Baptizer the Lord Ieſus. Theſe his reaſons, I affirme, are nothing elſe but a meer calumny, and a falſe accuſation, and to ſpeake the truth, are but his owne wicked and groundleſſe ſurmiſes; and if every man, from his owne fictious and fond conceits, and ſuppoſed premiſes, may take the liberty thus to vent himſelfe, I know no truth in the whole word of God, but may be called in queſtion, yea overthrown and I know no Chriſtians nor Saints but may at any time be unſainted and unchriſtianed. Our Saviour Chriſt in the 7. of Luke, verſ. 32, 33, 34. compareth thoſe of his time, unto little children ſitting in the market place, and calling one to another, and ſaying; wee have piped unto you, and you have not danced; wee have mourned unto you, and ye have not wept; for Iohn the Baptiſt came neither eating bread, nor drinking wine, and ye ſay he hath a Devill. The Sonne of man is come eating and drinking, and ye ſay, behold a gluttonous man, and a wine Bibber, afriend of Publicans and Sinners. But wiſedome is juſtified of all her children. By which words of our Saviour wee ſee nothing could pleaſe the Gentlemen of his time.

Now if ever there were an age in the world, or company of men in it, that might be compared to theſe little children, then this of ours, and the people in it, eſpecially the Independents may p. 100be, who are pleaſed with nothing, and can leaſt of all indure any Vniformity in the Church, againſt which they profeſſedly both write and preach, and as thoſe in our Saviours dayes did ſpeake againſt the Miniſtry of Iohn the Baptiſt, and againſt Chriſt himſelf; ſo at this very day amongſt us, there are many that make nothing of the Miniſtry of Iohn, profeſſing they take no notice of thoſe that were baptized by him or Chriſts diſciples, and I. S. peremptorily affirmeth, that thoſe that were baptized by him were no Chriſtians, and that his Miniſtry was imperfect; and therefore I conceive all men will judge, that the Independents may well be compared to thoſe of Chriſts time, who unchurch all but themſelves. But ſaith I. S. they were Iohns owne Diſciples that both doubted and heſitated, and were right downe ſcandalized at the true Meſſias, and for proofe of this his ſaying hee produceth the 3. of Iohn, verſ. 26. I will therefore ſet downe the words of the text with the forgoing verſe, which will give ſome light to the buſines in hand, verſe 25. Then there aroſe (ſaith the Evangeliſt) a queſtion betweene ſome of Iohns diſciples and the Iewes about purifying, and they came unto Iohn and ſaid unto him, Rabbi, hee that was with thee beyond Iordan, to whom thou bareſt witneſſe, behold the ſame baptizeth and all men come to him. Theſe are the words out of which I. S. grounds all his accuſation againſt Iohns Diſciples, by which hee would prove them no Chriſtians. But if men would but duly weigh and examine the text, they will eaſily perceive, there is not ſo much as a very ſimilitude of the illation and conſequence I. S. inferres from thence. For firſt the queſtion there ſtarted, was not betweene Iohns Diſciples and Chriſts, but betweene the Diſciples of Iohn and the Jewes, that is betweene the Scribes and Phariſees and Iohns Diſciples, who were enemies of Iohn the Baptiſt as well as of Chriſt, and therefore queſtioned all they did, ever and anon asking Iohn and Chriſt by what authority they preached and did thoſe things they did. And ſo here the Jewes, they queſtioned with Iohns Diſciples concerning his Miniſtry, (as by all conjecture it may be gathered) & about legall purifications, of which they were very ſtudious and great obſervers, to which the Phariſees had added many of their ovvne, as wee may ſee, Matth, the 15. and Marke the 7. and therefore they contended with Iohns Diſciples about purifying, ſuppoſing, that there was no need of Iohns baptiſme and waſhing, ſeeing they had ſo p. 101much rinſing and purifying already amongſt them. So that it ſeemes the contention betweene the Jewes and Iohns Diſciples aroſe upon this, that Iohns Diſciples much magnified the Baptiſme of their Maſter, and the Jewes and Phariſees, they extolled as much their Purifications, thinking them neceſſary to ſalvation, which error of the Jewes, notwithſtanding, had often by the Prophets beene confuted, as in Iſa. 1. and many other places. Now Iohn, that hee might revoke all men from this error, that they ſhould not reſt in corporall vvaſhings and in outvvard performances, exhorts them to looke unto Chriſt, vvho vvas the truth of which all thoſe ceremonies were but the ſhadowes and were all fulfilled in him, and therefore that they ſhould by faith wholy rely upon him for ſalvation as the ſequell of the chapter doth ſufficiently ſhew. Now in the heate of this diſpute, the Evangeliſt relateth in the 26. verſe, that they came unto Iohn, and ſaid unto him, Rabbi, hee that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou beareſt witneſſe, behold the ſame baptizeth, and all men come to him. Out of which words I ſee no reaſon why I. S. ſhould gather, that Iohns Diſciples not only heſitated, but were right downe ſcandalized at the true Meſſias, but I ſee very good ground, why the contrary may be concluded; if they were Iohns Diſciples and that they dearely eſteemed Chriſt and much honoured him rather then that they vvere offended with him.