The Utter Routing of the Whole Army of All the Independents and Sectaries, Pages 299-401 (3 of 3)

The Utter Routing of the Whole Army of All the Independents and Sectaries · Pages 299-401 (3 of 3)

p. 367This is all Maſter Knollys hath to ſay to this Propoſition. I will firſt therefore reply to him, and in doing that, inſert my brother Burtons anſwer to it, with what I. S. hath to ſay, and anſwer to them all in order. Now whereas Maſter Knollys affirmes, that the brethren have not acknowledged, nor the Doctor by Scripture proved that in this one Church of Jeruſalem there were divers Congregations and ſeverall Aſſemblies of Beleevers; in all hee ſaith, I am moſt aſſured all that ſhall without prejudice reade my fore-going Arguments, and ſeriouſly weigh and conſider what my Brother Burton, Maſter Knollys, and I. S. have written, will conclude, That Maſter Hanſerdo is a man of very ſhallow capacity, and of as little honeſty, and no way to be credited in what either hee ſaith or writeth. Neither ought Maſter Knollys in this controverſie (eſpecially when the debate is yet ſub Iudice) to bee both party, witneſſe, Iury and Iudge, in his owne cauſe, as all wiſe men will gather: and therefore I leave it to the judgement of the learned, whether or no I have not by Scripture ſufficiently proved, there were many congregations, and ſeverall Aſſemblies of Beleevers in that one Church; and whether I have not by expreſſe words of Scripture, and from my brother Burtons and Maſter Knollys his owne words abundantly evinced it; all this, I ſay, I leave to the judgement of all impartiall and underſtanding Chriſtians, who I am confident will grant that I have ſufficiently proved there were many congregations of beleevers in the Church of Jeruſalem; and therefore I challenge Maſter Knollys his promiſe, and expect that hee ſhould acknowledge his error; and ſo relinquiſh his fond opinion of Independency, which if he doe not, hee cannot be an honeſt man, and a true Saint, as not keeping his word; for David deſcribing a true Saint, Pſal. 15. verſe 4. ſaith of ſuch an one, that hee ſweareth to his owne hurt, and changeth not. Now if hee bee in the number of thoſe Saints, and will keepe his promiſe, hee will abandon his tenent of the congregationall way.

But becauſe Maſter Knollys ſo peremptorily aſſerts, that the brethren have not acknowledged that there were many congregations and ſeverall Aſſemblies of Beleevers in the Church at Ieruſalem; I ſhall deſirehim and all thoſe of his fellowſhip to hear my brother Burton who eſteems of himſelfe as none of the weakeſt brethren, but accounteth himſelfe a Champion, and therefore cometh out to p. 368dare all the world of Presbyterians; and yet hee in the name of all that Fraternity acknowledgeth, that there were many aſſemblies of Beleevers and Saints in the Church of Jeruſalem, and this his book is allowed of and highly approved of by many of them: And if I have not been miſ-informed, it was licenſed by their Batcheler of the black-art of Il-dependency that ſhotten hering in divinity, who alloweth of all their other Pamphlets and ſets his Imprimatur to them; So that what he licenſeth is approved of by them all.

Now I deſire Mr Knollys and I. S. and all thoſe of his ſociety to liſten unto their great Rabbi, old Harry, my courteous and learned brother, whoſe words are theſe in the ninth Page of his Anſwer.

The first formed Church (ſaith he) we finde is in the ſecond of the Acts, which though conſisting of five thouſand, yet it was one entire particular Church and not Churches; and they continued dayly foreign with one accord in one place together (v▪ 1.) and in the Temple (ver. 44. 46.) growing from an hundred and twenty (Acts 1. 15.) to three thouſand more (chap. 2. 41.) and then in all five thouſand (ch. 4. 4.) and all theſe but one Church which aſſembled together to hear the word in the Temple, and though they wanted a convenient place ſo ſpacious as wherein to break bread or to receive the Lords Supper all together, ſo as they were conſtrained to ſever themſelves into diverſe companies in ſeverall private houſes to communicate, yet this ſevering was not a dividing of this Church into ſo many diſtinct formall Churches or Church bodies, being but ſo many branches of one and the ſame particular Church, &c.

Theſe are my brother Burtons words in the name of all his brethren, and therefore they may abundantly ſatisfie Mr Knollys and all men that the brethren have acknowledged there were many Congregations of beleevers in the Church of Jeruſalem. But for the farther confirmation of this truth, that the brethren have acknowledged there were ſeverall aſſemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, I will unto the teſtimony of my brother Burton add the teſtimony likewiſe of another faithfull brother againſt whom I preſume Mr Knollys can have no juſt exception; ſo that this truth being confirmed by the mouth of two approved and ſeraphicall witneſſes, the brethren can never doubt of it any more: and this witneſſe is one Saint Hanſerdo one of Saint Georges for England his Chaplaines, a man worthy of eſteeme who uſually preacheth on p. 369horſeback to the Country Courtiers all the the truth (as he ſaid) of the Goſpel; And therefore I know Mr Knollys will give great heed to Saint Hanſerdo's teſtimony concerning this matter, and he touching this point in the tenth page of his learned book ſaith that the Apostles and all the Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem met together with one accord in one place, to wit, the Temple, and in Solomons Porch, and brake bread from houſe to houſe domatim, and thus they did quotidie day by day &c.

From the which two teſtimonies the one of my brother Burton the other of Saint Hanſerdo, all intelligible men may eaſily gather, that there is very little credit at any time to be given to what Mr Knollys or thoſe of his party ſhall affirme either concerning the judgment of their brethren or what they ſhall relate concerning other men: For he in the name of them all aſſerteth theſe two things.

The firſt touching themſelves: viz. that the brethren (meaning all the Illdependents) have not acknowledged that there were many congregations in that one Church at Ieruſalem.

The ſecond concerning my ſelfe, of whom he ſaith, that the Doctor hath not by Scripture proved that there were ſeverall aſſemblies of Beleevers in that one Church.

Now for the latter of his aſſertions, I have not only from Scripture proved it, but from my brother Burton and Maſter Hanſerdos their owne conceſſions made it good: viz. that there were many Congregations of Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem: And therefore I do to all the world accuſe Maſter Knollys of calumny and diſhoneſty.

And for the firſt of his aſſertions: viz. That the brethren have not acknowledged it, for the conviction of him of an apparent untruth in this, my brother Burton and Saint Hanſerdoes teſtimonies do it for me; for in their above mentioned words, and that in the name of all the Independents, and that in books approved of by many of that way, in thoſe I ſay my brother Burton conceptis verbis ſaith, that though it was but one entire Church, yet for want of a convenient place ſo ſpacious as where to break bread, they were conſtrained to ſever themſelves into divers companies in ſeveral private houſes to communicate. And Saint Hanſerdos his teſtimony is as full as my brother Burtons, for he ſaith the Apoſtles and beleevers met day by day in the Temple and in Solomons Porch and brake bread from houſe to houſe, that is they did communicate from houſe to p. 370houſe or in every houſe; So that Saint Hanſerdos witneſſe to prove many aſſemblies is moſt evident. So that both theſe brethren in the name of all their fraternity acknowledge, there were may Congregations of Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, and that in ſeverall private houſes, and my brother Burton ſaith moreover, that they were ſo many branches of one and the ſame particular Church.

Now I refer my ſelfe to all the world, whether there be any regard at any time to be given either to Maſter Knollys or any of his faction, when he and they at pleaſure dare publiſh ſuch notorious untruths as theſe, for he in the name of all the Independents affirmeth, that the brethren have not acknowledged that there were many congregations of Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, when my brother Burton notwithſtanding and Saint Hanſerdo have in expreſſe words, and that in the name of all their fraternity aſſerted, That when there were but five thouſand yea but three thouſand beleevers, for the largneſſe of the Church at that time and for want of ſo spacious a room as could contain them all to injoy all acts of worſhip, they were then forced to ſever themſelves into divers companies and that in ſeveral private houſes and to break bread from houſe to houſe. So that for Mr Knollys and thoſe of his way they are not to be regarded: for all they of that fraternity are generally ſo given to tell untruths, that for my part, I never believe them; neither when they ſay true, nor when they ly; for they wil ly by the day & by the night.

But out of my brother Burtons and Hanſerdoes words and that in the name of all their brethren, I deſire the Reader to obſerve what they both grant. And firſt to conſider my brother Burtons expreſſions, for he in them accordeth to theſe three things: viz.

Firſt, That the Church of Ieruſalem was but one particular Church.

Secondly, He acknowledgeth that there were divers companies of Beleevers and that in ſeverall private houſes in that Church, which did dayly communicate in Gods Ordinances ſeverally.

Thirdly, He aſſerteth that all thoſe companies in thoſe ſeverall private houſes were but ſo many branches in that one and the ſame particular Church.

Now in the ſecond place I ſhall deſire all men duly to weigh Saint Hanſerdoes words in his reply to my ſecond propoſition, and p. 371there he aaknowledgeth that the Church of Ieruſalem was but one Church, notwithſtanding in the ſame page he granteth that that Church conſiſted of diverſe Congregations; for he acknowledgeth, that they had a congregation in the Temple, that is one place; and he grants alſo, they had an Aſſembly in Solomons Porch, that is another place, and he acknowledgeth moreover, that they brake bread from houſe to houſe foreign domatim; and thus they did foreign quotidie day by day: Here Hanſerdo aſſigneth innumerable places more then the Temple and Solomons Porch wherein the beleevers at Ieruſalem communicated and partaked in all acts of worſhip, and that every day, and thoſe places were as he aſſignes them foreign from houſe to houſe or in every houſe, for ſo it is tranſlated by all interpreters and confeſſed by Mr Knollys; So that when Saint Hanſerdo hath acknowledged that the beleevers in Ieruſalem were in ſuch multitudes that beſides the Temple and Solomons Porch, wherein they met every day to heare the word, they brake bread and heard the word dayly alſo from houſe to houſe and in every houſe, then he in this doth accord with my brother Burton, that there were divers Congregations and ſeverall Aſſemblies of Beleevers in the Church at Ieruſalem, which Maſter Knollys nevertheleſſe denyeth, affirming, that the brethren have not acknowledged it, nor the Doctor by Scripture proved it, when Saint Hanſerdo nevertheleſſe Ʋna fidelia duos parietes, hath done both.

For firſt, he acknowledgeth there were many Congregations there.

Secondly, he proveth it by Scripture as out of the firſt 5 chapters of the Acts: So that Maſter Knollys I hope will not hereafter ſay that the brethren have not acknowledged that there were many Congregations in Ieruſalem.

But I do verily beleeve that Maſter Knollys and all the brethren of the Congregationall way, when they ſhall duly and maturely conſider what my brother Burton and Saint Hanſerdo have acknowledged, will give them little thanks for their paines; for their doctrine is not onelyonly contrary to all the Independents principles, but totally ſubverteth and overthroweth the tenent of the Congregationall way: For all the Independent Miniſters through the World preach up and publiſh in all their Pamphlets, that in all the Primitive Churches there were no more beleevers in any one of them, no not in the very Church of Ieruſalem it ſelfe, then could all meet together p. 372at one time and in one place to communicate in all Acts of Worſhip: And this doctrine they have broached to all people whereſoever they come, perſwading them that this is Gods way, and the Goſpell way, and the right way of gathering Churches, and therefore they call it the Congregationall way, affirming, that all the Apoſtolicall Churches we read of in the holy Scriptures, each of them in their ſeverall Cityes and Precincts conſiſted but of as many as did all meet in one Congregation, and this they call Gods Ordinance. And many of the brethren both aſſembled and not aſſembled, have been heard ſay and promiſe, that if it could evidently be made appear unto them, that there were many Congregations and diverſe Aſſemblies of Beleevers either in the Church at Ieruſalem or in any other of the Apoſtolicall Churches, that then they would relinquiſh their opinion of Independency, and acknowledge that the Congregationall way had not any warrant and footing in Gods word, and that the opinion of the Preſbyterians concerning the combining of many Congregations under one Preſbytery and their Dependency upon it, and their making of a ſubordination of many Aſſemblies under one Ariſtocracy to be governed by the Common Councell and joynt conſent of many Elders, was Gods Ordinance.

This I ſay, all the Independents that I have ever talked with or or by relation heard of, have promiſed and by proteſtation engaged themſelves, that if it could be made appear unto them by the word of God, that there were many Congregations of Beleevers either in Ieruſalem or in any of the Primtive churches that then the controverſy amongſt the brethren would be at an end.

Now although I have in the foregoing treatiſe ſufficiently evinced and made it evident, that there were many Congregations of Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, and that they were all dependent upon that one Presbytery; yet becauſe it is the chief point of controverſie between us, and the which being ſufficiently cleared, is that, that will put an end to the whole debate; and becauſe alſo Mr Knollys hath ſo peremptorily affirmed, That the brethren have not acknowledged that there were divers Aſſemblies of Beleevers there, for his farther ſatisfaction and for the ſatisfaction of all thoſe of his party, and for the ſatisfaction of all men, and that at laſt the brethren may be the more fully convinced of the error of their wayes, and that the ſimple people alſo may be undeceived, I ſhall deſire them all ſeriouſly to weigh and conſider what both my p. 373brother Burton and Saint Hanſerdo are forced to confeſſe (though I muſt needs ſay thus much of them both, That they withhold much of the truth in unrighteouſneſſe, as I ſhall by and by make appear) but this (I ſay) I deſire all men adviſedly to weigh, what they are both conſtrained to acknowledge.

Firſt therefore I will again ſet down my brother Burtons words, and in the ſecond place I will repeat Saint Hanſerdoes expreſſions: For my brother Burton his words are theſe, They were (ſaith he) constrained to ſever themſelves into diverſe companies, in ſeverall private houſes to communicate; and which is more, he granteth, That thoſe ſeverall companies were but ſo many branches of that one and the ſame particular Church, &c. thus he. Maſter Hanſerdoes words are theſe, All the beleevers (ſaith he) in the Church of Ieruſalem, met together with one accord in one place; to wit, the Temple, and in Solomons Porch, and brake bread from houſe to houſe, and that day by day: theſe are Saint Hanſerdoes own words. Now I ſhall deſire all judicious Chriſtians duly to conſider both their expreſſions; for all men know, that branches either of a vine or tree, as we ſee it in the fifteenth of S. Iohn, and in the eleventh of the Romans, they are all dependent upon the Vine and root, as drawing life and ſap from them; for being ſevered and cut off they do forthwith dye and wither. Now then, if according to my brother Burtons opinion and learning, and if his ſimilie be good, That there is the ſame relation between the ſeverall companies in thoſe ſeverall private houſes and the whole particular Church in Jeruſalem, that is between either the branches of the Vine or Tree, which ever depend upon their ſtock or root for ſap and life, and for the compleating of them: then I ſay, by my brother Burtons own conceſſion, There were not onelyonly many Congregations of beleevers in that Church, but they all of them were dependent of that one particular Presbyterian Church, and were all ſubordinate unto it, and were to be regulated and governed Communi conſilio Presbyterorum. And the ſame may be concluded out of the words of Saint Hanſerdo.

And whether this be not true or no, I refer it to the judgement of all ſuch Chriſtians, as have not either morgaged their reaſon; and put it out of their own poſſeſſion, or abſolutely ſold the fee ſimple of their underſtanding; and to all ſuch I ſay, as have not been prodigall in eyther of theſe kindes, or have not forfeited all their wit and knowledge, and ſo are to be begged for punies and p. 374fools, I refer my ſelfe as moſt aſſured they will all ſay and affirme, That my brother Burton with one ſtroke of this his Phocions hatchet hath cut in two the long thred of all the alribiadian fluent, and luxuriant rhetorications (to uſurpe his own words) of all his brethren of the Congregationall way, by which they bound and tyed up their ill-ſhrouded Ill-dependency, and by this hath given a fatall ſtroak to that their Hydra, and indeed utterly overthrown their whole Congregationall Fabrick, and the ſame they will conclude concerning Saint Hanſerdo.

Yea, I dare in this controverſie between us, make my brother Burtons and Mr Knollys their greateſt friends, and my greateſt enemies arbiters and judges, eſpecially if they be not ſo wedded to their own reſolves and opinions, that be they never ſo adulterated, they are yet reſolved never to give them a bill of divorce; except I ſay, they be men deſperately beſotted and doting upon their filthy and deformed novelties: were they I ſay, much their friends, and very much my enemies, I dare leave the deciding of this buſineſſe and difference between us unto their judgement and determination. And I ſhall reſt moſt aſſured, and be ever confident if my brother Burtons and Hanſerdoes words be true, and to be credited, and if they both ſtand to what they have ſaid, to wit, That there were many companies of beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, and that in ſeverall houſes, where they did communicate, and that all theſe congregations were but ſo many branches of that one particular Church, which brake bread from houſe to houſe or in every houſe, (as they both affirme) that they will all accord, judge, and conclude, That they both of them have overthrown the Doctrine of Independency and that of the Congregationall way, and delucidately proved, That the Church of Ieruſalem was Dependent, and Presbyterianly and Claſſically governed. And withall, by that I have now ſaid, I hope that Mr Knollys himſelfe will in time be convinced of his errour, and will not hereafter ſo boldly affirme, That the brethren have not acknowledged it; eſpecially when he ſhall deliberately read what my brother Burton and Saint Hanſerdo that faithfull brother and witneſſe hath written.

But as I accuſed my brother Burton and Mr Knollys before of jugling and of indirect dealing in this ſo ſerious and weighty a matter: ſo here I will make it good; for,

p. 375Firſt, They make all the beleevers of Ieruſalem, till the receiving of the gifts of the holy Ghoſt (which we read of Act. 2. ver. 1.) to amount to no more then an hundred and twenty names, and ſo would perſwade the poor ignorant people, that there were no more beleevers then in Ieruſalem, which I affirm is a great wickedneſſe in them both, ſo to betray the truth and to give the ſpirit of God the lye, when it is manifeſt out of all the Evangeliſts, that there were infinite multitudes of beleevers then in Ieruſalem all inhabitants there; and when in expreſſe words, in the ſecond of the Acts it is ſaid, That there were devout men and true worſhippers from out of all the Nations under heaven, at that time in that City.

Secondly, whereas it is related in the ſecond chapter, That there were three thouſand ſouls at the firſt miracle and ſermon of Peter converted, beſides many others that the Lord added dayly to the Church, ver. 47. And whereas it is recorded in the fourth chap. That there were five thouſand men more converted by another miracle and Sermon: and whereas it is ſtoried in the 5 chap. upon the miraculous and fearfull death of Ananias and Saphira his wife, and through the other ſigns and wonders the Apoſtles wrought, that beleevers were more added unto the Lord multitudes both of men & womē, v. 14. mark I pray the expreſſion, it is ſaid, there were multitudes; now multitudes among the Romans and in all nations is ever taken for turba or agmen, a great company, that is, for a great Aſſembly or Congregation; and here the word of God affirmes in the plurall number, That by that miracle and by thoſe other wonders of the Apoſtles, multitudes both of men and women were added to the Lord, that is to ſay, many more great Congregations and Aſſemblies of beleevers then were before were added to that Church in Ieruſalem, all this I ſay is evident out of thoſe words.

And whereas it is farther related in the ſixt chapter ver. 7. that the word of God increaſed and the number of the Diſciples multiplyed in Ieruſalem greatly, and a great company of the Priests were obedient to the faith. And whereas in divers other places of the Acts it is witneſſed that there was increaſe upon increaſe of beleevers in that Church: And whereas in the 21. of the Acts it is recorded that there were many ten thouſand beleevers there & all Inhabitants; my Brother Burton and Mr Knollys in their enumeration of the Beleevers in Ieruſalem at firſt and laſt make them but five thouſand in all. My brother Burtons words are theſe: Growing (ſaith p. 376he) from an hundred and twenty (Acts 1. 15.) to three thouſand more (chap. 2. ver. 41.) and then in all five thouſand (chap. 4. ver. 4.) and all theſe but one Church. Maſter Knollys his words are theſe, Page 8, Thoſe places in Matthew and Mark and Luke (ſaith he) tell us of very many who were baptized by John and by Chriſts Diſciples; but do not declare how many of theſe baptized perſons were of the Church of Ieruſalem; and for ought I know (ſaith he) or the Doctor either, many of thoſe baptized perſons might be in the other Churches of Iudaea, yea the most of them and but few in Ieruſalem, it may be no more but thoſe hundred and twenty mentioned Acts 1. 13, 14, 15. to whom were added about three thouſand ſoules. And in the ninth page he ſaith the text well conſidered onelyonly holds forth, that the number of men was made up five thouſand. Thus he. So that in the reckoning of my brother Burton and Maſter Knollys, the whole number of beleevers in Ieruſalem at firſt and laſt was but five thouſand in all.

Now I refer my ſelfe unto the judicious and godly Reader whether theſe men have not made falſe Muſters or no to uſe ſome of I. S. his language, and whether or no my brother Burton and Maſter Knollys have not with-held the truth from the people in unrighteouſneſſe, Rom. 1. And whether they have not done moſt ſacrilegiouſly, unjuſtly and wickedly in thus robbing the Church at Ieruſalem of ſo many thouſand Members?

For firſt they ſubduct and cut off all thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt and Chriſts diſciples, and all thoſe devout men, and true worſhippers in Ieruſalem ſpake of in the ſecond chapter, and take no notice of them.

Secondly, whereas it is related in the ſecond chapter, verſe 47. that beſides thoſe three thouſand ſoules that were converted by Peters Sermon, that the Lord added daily unto the Church ſuch as ſhould be ſaved, they ſubduct and cut off thoſe likewiſe, and make no mention of them. And whereas in the fourth chapter the number of thoſe that were converted by the ſecond miracle, and ſermon, is related to be about five thouſand men, they cut off three thouſand of theſe alſo; and whereas in the fifth chapter it is ſaid, that Beleevers were more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women, that is to ſay many more great Aſſemblies and Congregations then were before, all thoſe in like manner they ſubduct and pare off: and whereas in the ſixth chapter it is related, p. 377that the word of God increaſed, and the number of the diſciples multiplyed in Jeruſalem greatly, and a great company of the Prieſts were obedient to the faith, all thoſe likewiſe they defalcate with all the other increaſes of multitudes the Scripture ſpeaks of, with the many ten thouſands recorded in the 21. chapter, neither doe they make any mention of them, or take any notice of them, but caſting up the whole ſumme, they bring in the totall reckoning and number of all the Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem at firſt and laſt to be but five thouſand in all; and all this they have done out of their perverſe wilfull and obſtinate wickedneſſe, to the end they may deceive the ignorant and ſimple people, (which is a moſt horrid ſinne and wickedneſſe in them thus to juggle) who they could not delude, if they were indeed truly informed, and did not they and their complices with-hold the truth from them in unrighteouſneſſe; for were the people truly informed, that in the Church of Jeruſalem there were many ten thouſands; al intelligible, yea, but ordinary underſtanding men and women, yea very children would conclude, That they could not then all poſſibly meet in one congregation or a few to partake in all acts of worſhip, and therefore of neceſſity they muſt be diſtributed into divers congregations and aſſemblies, all which notwithſtanding made ſtill but one Church, and therefore they would gather that they muſt neceſſarily be combined under one Presbyterie, and be dependent upon it. This I affirme every rationall creature would from grounded reaſon be able to gather, if they were rightly inſtructed; whether therefore it be not the higheſt point of diſhoneſty, both in my brother Burton, Maſter Knollys, and all thoſe Teachers of the congregationall way, thus to abuſe the people, and whether this be not in them all to with-hold the truth in unrighteouſneſſe, I leave it to the judgement of all the truly godly, and ſuch as make conſcience of their wayes and dealings.

And now I come to what I. S. that Groll hath to ſay to my ſecond Propoſition; for hee muſt be anſwered alſo, or elſe he will exceedingly triumph. In the 11. page of his Flagelli hee hath theſe words by way of anſwer. I am not (ſaith hee) ſatisfied by any thing that hath beene alleaged by the Doctor, that the Church of Jeruſalem conſiſted of many congregations and aſſemblies, and that upon the ſcruples before inſtanced. Thus I. S. expreſſeth his non-ſatisfaction in that place; and in the tenth page for farther p. 378anſwer, hee thus declareth himſelf. Firſt (ſaith he) you ſay the brethren themſelves acknowledge, that all the Beleevers in Ieruſalem were all Members of that Church. If you meane that Church spake of Acts the 15. 4. J deny, and ſay it is a groſſe preſumption, and begging of the queſtion, to ſay that wee acknowledge all the Beleevers in Ieruſalem, to be Members of that one miniſtring Church, eſpecially if you reckon all Iohns Diſciples and converts to thoſe Beleevers: for as there was a good ſpace of time after there were multitudes of Beleevers, ere there was ſuch a Church; ſo for any thing hath yet beene brought to the contrary, it is probable▪ enough, that the true Beleevers, which were not ſo many, after you have cut off Iohns converts, I meane thoſe that did ſticke in Iohns Baptiſme, which were multitudes and temporary Beleevers, which ceaſed to walke with Chriſt, which were not a few and ſtrangers, which did afterwards diſperſe themſelves into ſeverall countries, thoſe that did remaine at Ieruſalem, did gradually gr…w up unto Church fellowſhip; and it amounts to no leſſe, then to the former begging and preſumption, that which ſollowes, viz. that this Propoſition is manifeſt out of the Scripture, viz. that they that were converted, are ſaid to be added to the Church. For what (ſaith I. S.) if that be to be underſtood of the Church Catholick, and not a particular church? It may not be denied that the word Church, is often ſo uſed in the New Teſtament, and it is ſuſpicious that the three thouſand converted at once, were not ſo ſoone inſtructed in church fellowſhip as converted, &c. Thus worſhipfull Sir I. S. diſputeth, whoſe words are a very farrago of errors and vanity, by which hee ſufficiently declareth unto the world, that hee is in the number of thoſe Maſters Saint Paul ſpeaketh of, 1 Tim. chap. 1. verſe 7. who deſiring to be Teachers of the Law, underſtand neither what they ſay, nor whereof they affirme: and confident I am, that there was never a more arrogant, and a more preſumptuoas ſot that ever put pen to paper, then this I. S. and whoſe words are▪ guilty of more ignorance, and fuller of the emptineſſe of ſelfe conceitedneſſe, and more lyable to exception; for hee is not only a ſtranger to the Independent doctrine, and to the Church of Jeruſalem hee ſpeakes of (as all the learned wil eaſily by his expreſſions perceive) but hee is a meere novice in all divine learning, and al good literature, & a fellow very wretched & worthleſſe, and ſuch an one as deſerves to be exploded out of the ſchools of the learned, p. 379and to be thruſt out of the ſociety of all orthodox and conſcientious honeſt Chriſtians, and indeed if he were dealt with according to his merits, hee deſerves to be ſpewed out of the ſeven new churches, of whom, before I come to my reply, I will take liberty to ſay yet a little more, and as of him, ſo of my Brother Burton, and Maſter Knollys, that as they are fratres in malo, ſo they are equally guilty of the ſame ſacriledge & unrighteous dealing, foras I. S. ſo they alſo rob the Church of Ieruſalem, of all thoſe Members that were converted by Iohn the Baptiſt, Chriſt himſelfe, and his bleſſed Apoſtles and Diſciples before Chriſts death, as is manifeſt from their words quoted before, and from I. S. his ſcruples hee ſpeakes of, page 8. and 9. where hee unchurches and unchriſtians all thoſe that were converted by Iohns and Chriſts miniſtry, hee alſo with them with-holds the truth from the people in unrighteouſnes: and as if that had not been enough, in the words, I have now quoted out of the tenth page, beſides his denying, that I have proved my firſt Propoſition, which indeed is a meere Preſumptiou and begging the queſtion, to uſe his grolliſh expreſſion, hee to all his iniquity adds tranſgreſſion and ſinne, which is the height of wickedneſſe accumulating error upon error, as will frequently appeare; for here againe hee firſt cuts off all thoſe that were baptized by the Baptiſt from the Beleevers in Ieruſalem whom hee deridingly cals Iohns diſciples and converts.

Secondly, Hee affirmeth of them all that they ſtucke in Iohns Baptiſme, and were but temporary Beleevers, and ceaſed to walke with Chriſt.

Thirdly, Hee affirmeth that thoſe that were baptized by Iohn the Baptiſt did afterwards diſperſe themſelves into ſeverall countries.

And fourthly, Hee aſſerteth, that thoſe that did continue at Ieruſalem did gradually grow up into church fellowſhip. Every one of the which aſſertions of Sir I. S. howſo ever they are preſumptuouſly laid downe by him, as ſo many certaine and infallible truths, yet I atteſt, there is not the leaſt warrant for any of them in the whole word of God; no not ſo much as a ſhaddow of any authority to cover or colour them over; yea, they are all as egregiouſly and notoriouſly erroneous as they are uncharitable; for they are all contrary to the word of God, and to the law of love and kindneſſe which thinkes no evill; yea, they contradict the revealed will of God, as wee ſhall ſee in ſome particulars: for whereas p. 380hee arrogantly amongſt other of his falſe aſſertions ſaith, That thoſe that did remaine in Ieruſalem, did gradually grow up into Church fellowſhip, as if they had not by Saint Iohns Miniſtry been made perfect Chriſtians, I ſay this is contrary to the expreſſe words of our Saviour, Luke the 7. where hee giveth this teſtimony concerning all thoſe that came out of Ieruſalem to Iohns Baptiſme, all which were Inhabitants and innumerable companies, for the Scripture ſaith, Matt. the 3. and Marke the 1. That Ieruſalem went out to him, and they of Ieruſalem, that they juſtified God, and rejected not his counſell againſt themſelves to their owne deſtruction, as the Phariſees and Lawyers did, but they embraced Gods mercy to their ſalvation. So that by Chriſts own teſtimony and witneſſe, the Phariſees and Lawyers onelyonly excepted, all the other were good and perfectly made Chriſtians, and in ſuch a Church fellowſhip as with which they grew up to a perfect ſtature, without any new Church-fellowſhip: and therefore I. S. not onelyonly ſaying, that they were temporary Chriſtians, and ceaſed to follow Chriſt, but that thoſe of them that remayned in Ieruſalem, did gradually grow up in Church-fellowſhip afterwards, in all hee ſaith, I affirme, hee giveth the ſpirit of God the lye, who hath recorded the contrary, as that they were perfect good Chriſtians, as having not rejected the counſell of God to their owne perdition, but imbraced the promiſes to their ſalvation; ſo that they were all by Iohns Miniſtry very well inſtructed in their duty in all reſpects. Therefore both J. S. my brother Burton and all the Ill-dependents, are moſt abominably wicked thus with their ſcriblings to unſettle the minds of the people, ever pratling about a kind of Church fellowſhip, of which they have neither Precept nor Preſident in all Gods holy Word, and which they themſelves could never declare unto the world what it was, and …et they are ever babling of this Church-fellowſhip, & unchurchying all Churches but their owne, becauſe forſooth in their opinion, they are not caſt into a Church mold after the New Teſtament forme, nor are not in church-fellowſhip; whereupon they raſhly proclame us all enemies of Ieſus Chriſt and his Kingdome; and it is no wonder, that they thinke ſo contemptuouſly of all thoſe that were baptized by the Baptiſt, and that they judge ſo wickedly of us all; for I. S. ſaith in the words above cited, which is another of his great errors, that it is ſuſpicious, that the p. 381three thouſand converted at once, were not ſo ſoone inſtructed in church-fellowſhip as converted. Theſe are his expreſſions.

From which I gather that Sir I. S. and all his complices are a generation of men very cenſorious, and that they are creatures full of jealouſies and cauſeleſſe ſuſpicions, and therefore that they ought by all good men to be ſhunned and avoyded, as both dangerous and treacherous: for here wee ſee they ſuſpect thoſe very three thouſand converted by Peter, as not well inſtructed in church fellowſhip, notwithſtanding in the very ſame chapter it is related, that they were all well taught their duties, both towards God, and one towards another; truly if ever any people were wel inſtructed, they all were, in whom all the acts & fruits of faith are evident, for whereſoever it comes it purifies the hearts of al thoſe to whom God hath given it, Acts 15. as here it is manifeſt it did it in that the ſoules of all thoſe converts being purſued by the guilt of their owne ſinne in crucifying the Lord of life, and being ſenſible of the wrath of God due unto them for this their ſinne, their conſciences alſo accuſing them, and aggravating unto them the haynouſneſſe of it; it made them all fly unto Chriſt, and roule themſelves upon him, and wholly rely on him for mercy and forgiveneſſe, and wrought love alſo in them all toward God and Chriſt, and charity one towards another, the effects of which are ſet downe by the Holy Ghoſt, and fully recorded in the ſecond chapter, verſe 42, 43. who ſaith, That they continued ſtedfaſtly in the Apoſtles doctrine and fellowſhip, and in the breaking of bread, and in prayers, and that all that beleeved were together and had all things common, and ſold their poſſeſſions and goods and parted them to all men as every man had need, and that they continued daily with one accord in the Temple, and that they brake bread from houſe to houſe, and did eate their meat with Gladneſſe and ſingleneſſe of heart. Thus the Holy Ghoſt deſcribeth thoſe three thouſand converts unto us, as not onelyonly skilfull in the theory of church-fellowſhip, but alſo exceedingly well verſt in the practicall part of it; whether therefore in this particular alſo (in that J. S. ſaith) it is ſuſpicious, that the three thouſand converted at once, were not ſo ſoone inſtructed in Church fellowſhip, as converted when the Scripture reporteth the contrary, it be not to give the Spirit of God the lye, I leave it to the judgement of all the godly and impartiall R…aders; who I am confident will give their verdict againſt I. S. For p. 382certainly there is no act of church fellowſhip, that was omitted by them, and although I love not ſuch as will groundleſſly be ſuſpicious as I. S. is here and thoſe of his Fraternity; yet I am confident the Independnnts will never be induced to imitate the example of thoſe three thouſand, and I have very good reaſon to make mee continue in this beliefe for what I already know in their daily practiſes, and therefore they are rather to be ſuſpected that they are not well inſtructed in church fellowſhip, they make notwithſtanding ſo great a noyſ about▪ therefore whether this be not a great temerity in theſe men, thus upon all occaſions, not onelyonly to cenſure their chriſtian brethren that live harmeleſſely by them, but to ſuſpect all thoſe that were converted by the Baptiſt and the Apoſtles themſelves before Chriſts death; yea, and to ſuſpect even thoſe three thouſand alſo that were converted by Peter, after Chriſts aſcenſion, and to adjudge both Paſtors and people to bee all ignorant, what church government and church fellowſhip was, I leave it likewiſe to the judgement of the prudent, & adviſed Reader? And yet this is the daily practiſe of al the Ill▪dependents thus to ſpeake of them all, as if they had not learned their leſſon as well as the congregationall Predicants and their diſciples, and knew not how to caſt them into a church mold after the New Teſtament forme, and to inſtruct them concerning church fellowſhip, when not withſtanding it is recorded of thoſe Miniſters that they revealed the whole counſell of God, and whatſoever was needfull to be knowne or practiſed by all chriſtians to the end of the world, Acts the 20. and therefore could bee ignorant of nothing that tended to edification, and the building up of beleevers in their moſt holy faith.

But yet notwithſtanding I. S. and his brethren are ſtill full of ſuſpicions and yet never ſatisfied in any thing that can be produced out of the holy Scripture to confute their erroneous novelties: for although I had ſufficiently confirmed my firſt propoſition and proved by both Scripture and reaſons, that all thoſe that were baptized by John and Chriſts Diſciples were good Chriſtians and true Believers, and that there were many Congregations of Beleevers in the Church at Jeruſalem, yet I. S. page 11. ſayes, He is not ſatisfied by any thing that hath been alledged by me, that the Church of Ieruſalem conſiſted of many Congregations and Aſſemblies, and that upon the ſcruples before inſtanced. And Mr Knollys in his 11. page p. 383affirmeth the ſame. So that it is certain theſe men are reſolved never to be ſatisfied though things be never ſo evidently proved unto them.

And it is no wonder that there is at this day ſuch a brood of creatures in the world; for there has ever been a generation of ſuch men in all ages, that will never be ſatisfied. Chriſt the great Doctor of his Church with all his bleſſed Apoſtles and faithfull Miniſters could never ſatisfie the Jewes, but they ever reſiſted his spirit Acts 7. Neither can the holy Scriptures now ſatisfie all gainſayers but they will ſtill be doubting, amongſt the which Sir I. S. and Saint Hanſerdo with many of their fraternity may well be numbred. But for all ſuch Chriſtians as whom the god of this world hath not blinded their eyes that they ſhould not ſee the glorious light of the Gospel of truth. I am confident they will be ſatisfied that I have ſufficiently proved that there were many Congregations and ſeveral Aſſemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, & from that ſatisfaction they will learn to abhor the errors of all the ſectaries and ſtraglers of our times, and to decline & ſhun their company and fellowſhip. And for all ſuch as they are that will receive the good ſeed of the word into good and honeſt hearts, I deſire ever to ſatisfie them, and not thoſe that are reſolved to be ever ſcepticall and ever learning, yet never attaining or coming to knowledge, or at leaſt withhold the truth from others in unrighteouſneſſe: And for all ſuch I ſhall not much ſtudy to give them ſatisfaction as being a company of unreaſonable men from whom we ought daily to pray to be delivered, for all ſuch the Lord hath given over to ſtrong deluſions, that they ſhould beleeve a lye, becauſe they received not the love of the truth that they may be ſaved, 2 Theſſ. 2. Notwithſtanding I ſay I have very little hope ever to ſatisfie any ſuch, and therefore may be thought to go about an impoſſible worke if I ſhould indeavour it; yet that all men may ſ…e my fairer dealing with I. S. becauſe he ſaith, that he hath not been ſatisfied with any thing alledged by me, that the Church of Jeruſalem conſiſted of many Congregations and Aſſemblies; I will therefore adde a few reaſons more or at leaſt call ſome of the former briefly to his minde, which I am moſt aſſured, if there were no other in the whole book, would perſwade any rationall man that there were many Aſſemblies and Congregations of beleevers in the Church of Jeruſalem, which if they cannot yet ſatisfie him, I am confident they will ſatisfie p. 384and content others. And to the reaſons I ſhall produce, I will alſo adde ſome teſtimonies of thoſe of his own party for his farther ſatisfaction or conviction at leaſt.

All ſuch as have read I. S. his learned works, know, that he hath not only cut of all thoſe that were baptized by Iohn and Chriſts Diſciples before Chriſts paſſion and aſcenſion from the Church of Ieruſalem, but razed them out of the Kalender and Roule of the Saints, abſolutely denying them ſo much as the very name of Chriſtians; all this I ſay, thoſe that have read his ſcruples, very well know: They know likewiſe that he granteth there were three thouſand converted by the firſt Miracle and Sermon of Saint Peter, though he uncharitably ſaith, That it is ſuſpicious that they were not ſo ſoon inſtructed in Church fellowſhip as converted. So that here by his own confeſſion we have a very ample Congregation conſiſting of three thouſand and ſix ſcore perſons. And in the ſame chapter it is related, that there were devout men true beleevers out of every Nation under Heaven all Inhabitants and Dwellers there, and that the Lord added dayly to thoſe, ſuch as ſhould be ſaved; and theſe were without doubt great numbers they being indefinitely ſet down. And in the fourth chapter we finde a new addition of five thouſand men more converted; and withall I may tell I. S. that it is ſuſpicious (to uſe his own language) that the three thouſand firſt converts were all men likewiſe, for ſo many learned men conceive of thoſe converts: but for the five thouſand it is out of doubt: for the holy Word of God ſaith in terminis that they were all men: And by the law of charity we are bound to beleeve that all thoſe converts were as zealous for the publiſhing and ſpreading abroad of the truth of this their Chriſtian Faith and Doctrine, as any other people ever were; and therefore that they did make known the wonderfull things of God and what he had done for them to all their acquaintance and neighbours, eſpecially we are obliged to beleeve that they did teach and inſtruct their wives, children and ſervants and their whole families in the nurtrature and fear of the Lord, and in the knowledge of the Goſpell. And it is alſo to be believed that the women and all ſorts of people were then as docible and intelligible, and as ready to give attendance unto wholeſome and ſound words and to imbrace any truth of the Goſpell, as our giddy-headed people and women are now ready to imbrace and follow novelties: eſpecially we may with all p. 385reaſon be induced to beleeve this that they would then be the ſooner perſwaded to receive the doctrine of the Goſpell, in regard it came ratified and confirmed unto them with ſuch mighty ſignes and wonders; for the Iewes had often before deſired ſigns and miracles, ſaying unto Chriſt, What ſigne ſhe west thou that we may beleeve in thee? intimating that if he could ſhew unto them any ſign that then they would beleeve in him, and ſo they ſaid unto him when he was upon the croſſe, If thou wouldeſt have us beleeve in thee (ſaid they) come down from the croſſe and ſave thy ſelfe, and then thou ſhalt perſwade us that thou art indeed the ſonne of God.

Now then when the Lord by his Apoſtles and Diſciples did dayly gratifie them with ſuch ſignes and wonders as that the very high Prieſts and Rulers themſelves were forced to confeſſe upon the cure of the criple, that no body could deny but it was a wonderfull miracle; I ſay therefore, when the preaching of the Goſpell was concomitated upon all occaſions with ſuch mighty wonders, it cannot be doub…ed but that the ordinary people both men and women were eaſily perſwaded to beleeve it, (when the Magiſtrates themſelves were aſtoniſhed to ſee thoſe wonders) and therefore yeelded the more credit unto their husbunds and maſters inſtructions: yea we read of many women Luke 23. ver. 27, 28. that mourned for Chriſt when they carryed him to crucifying: And if we look alſo into the ſtory of holy writ we ſhall finde that there were many women that followed him in his life time, & thoſe honourable ones which miniſtred dayly unto him. Now then if we beleeve, which we ought in charity to do, that there were but as many beleeving women converted as men (as we may for ought any thing can be ſaid to the contrary) then we have already ſixteen thouſand beleevers in the Church at Ieruſalem, according to the new ſtile of the Church. Neither did the Church ſtand then at a ſtay: For in the fifth chapter upon the dreadfull death of Ananias and Saphira and by reaſon of ſome other miracles, Beleevers, ſaith the text, were more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.

Now this word multitude as I ſhewed before, in all languages it ever ſignifies ſome great company, or ſome great aſſembly or concourſe of people whether it be taken in a good ſenſe or a bad, therefore ſaith the holy Scripture follow not a multitude to do evil; So that here many new great congregations of beleevers were added to the p. 386Church, beſides all thoſe before ſpecified; and in the 6. chapter v. 7. it is recorded, that the word of God increaſed, and the number of the Diſciples multiplyed in Ieruſalem greatly, and a great company of the Prieſts were obedient to the faith. In the which words there is theſe four things obſervable.

The firſt, that the word of God increaſed, that is brought forth many children which were begotten to the Faith by the preaching of it.

Secondly, in expreſſe words it is ſaid, that the number of the Diſciples multiplyed in Ieruſalem, the place it ſelfe where being ſpecified, that is to ſay they were increaſed and that in no ſmall companies in that very Church and City of Jeruſalem.

Thirdly, it is ſaid, that they multiplyed greatly, both the words having a great emphaſis in them, the number of Diſciples multiplyed, ſaith the Scripture, and that greatly, to ſhew the miraculous and wonderful▪ increaſe of them, as if the Scripture ſhould have ſaid that the number could not be ſet down.

Fourthly, it is ſaid alſo for the ſetting forth of the efficacy of the Goſpell, that a great company of the Prieſts were obedient to the faith, not a few but a great company alſo of the Prieſts, thoſe inveterate enemies of Jeſus Chriſt; every one of theſe words hath weight in it, and being but a little pondered, will create belief from any ordinary underſtanding man that there were by this means and after their converſion infinites of people dayly added unto the Church of Ieruſalem, not onelyonly by the powerfull preaching and miracles of the Apoſtles, but by the helpe and preaching of theſe Prieſts alſo, of whom we ought to harbour this opinion, that now they were as diligent (conſidering the great love of Chriſt towards themſelves) to convert and bring men unto him, as ever they were before to diſſwade the people from following him; this I conceive the law of charity binds all men to beleeve, that they being now converted would ſtudy to convert others. For we ſee that as ſoon as Andrew had found Chriſt John 1. he brought his brother Simon to him. And after Chriſt had called Philip unto him, he finding Nathaniel bringeth him alſo unto Chriſt. And if we obſerve it, it is the nature of true grace that it is ever operative and fruitfull and will looſe no opportunity of doing good and gaining friends unto it: So that all thoſe that are really and truly converted, they will ever ſtudy and indeavour to convert others, yea they are bound p. 387unto it, according to that of Chriſt, who when he related unto Peter that the devill ſoughts to winnow him as wheat, and told him farther that he had prayed for him that his faith might not faile, added withall this leſſon unto Simon Peter ſaying, When thou art converted, ſtrengthen thy brethren. This duty lay not only upon Simon Peter, but it lies to this day upon all Miniſters and people; and all thoſe Prieſts knew very well that this duty lay alſo upon them, and that by a ſpeciall command from God long before given them, who had ſaid that the Prieſts lips ſhould preſerve knowledge, and that the people ſhould ſeek the law, will and good pleaſure of God from their mouth.

Now then if all Chriſtians and all the Servants of the Lord in all ages ſtudied to teach their friends and families the knowledge and fear of the Lord, as we ſee in Abraham and Jacob and Joſhua and all the Patriarks, and they had a ſpeciall command alſo to do it as we ſee Deut. the ſixt and Deut. the eleventh, and when it was the practiſe of all people truly converted to do the ſame, as I ſaid before, and we ſee it likewiſe in the woman of Samaria how quickly ſhe brought her neighbours and fellow citizens unto Chriſt after ſhee was converted; then I ſay we ought to think, yea we ought much more to beleeve that theſe Prieſts being thus wonderfully converted spent their ſtrength and might now to gain Diſciples unto Chriſt and that by how much the more they had been his enemies and perſecutors. And the people without all controverſie would be the readier by far to give heed unto what they taught them becauſe they knew that they were learned and in that they had a command from God himſelf, to ſeek the law of God from their mouths, who ſaid, that the Prieſts lips ſhould preſerve knowledge and wiſdome. Yea Chriſt himſelfe ſent the lepers at any time when he had cured them to the Preiſts, and the Scriptures ſufficiently declare, that the Prieſts were in great eſteem among all the people and that they did mightily prevaile with them, ſo that they could perſwade them to do any thing they would have them.

Now when the people ſaw that their Prieſts in great companies were converted, without doubt they ſtill followed their Paſtors and waited upon their Miniſtry; and the law of love binds us to beleeve that abundance of the people alſo were dayly converted and added to the Church by their Miniſtry and Preaching, and this ordinary reaſon and dayly experience will perſwade every man to p. 388beleeve: for we ſee here amongſt us what miſchiefe a few whibling and unlearned fellows that were Miniſters, have done in ſeducing of the people after they revolted from the truth, upon whom they ſtill depend, and what diſtractions among all ſorts of men and women a few unſtable and unconſtant Preſbyters hourly make, when for baſe ends they fall from their principles and turne Independent Praedicants, and Itinerany Preachers; we ſee I ſay that they have in a very ſhort time with the leaven of their doctrine & with their ſottiſh, wicked and groundleſſe opinions ſowred the whole lump of the ſweet truth of the Goſpell, and ſeduced many thouſands both of men and women (if their gloriation be true.) Now if a few illiterate ſeducers in theſe our dayes have miſled and perverted ſuch multitudes with their novelties, and that without any miracles, without all controverſie that great company of Prieſts that were converted, preaching then unto all the people the truth of God and the glorious Gospell of glad tydings, and not their own fantaſies, and the people ſeeing it alſo dayly confirmed unto them with ſuch ſtupendious miracles, they prevailed greatly to the converting of thouſands: for the example of ſuch men as the Prieſts were, wrought very much upon the people; yea we ſee how it has been in all ages when great and rich men whether Magiſtrates, Miniſters or people, imbrace any new opinion, what way they go, the common people ordinarily follow whether it be truth or error, rather following example then precept, as we may ſee it, When Moſes was but gone up into the Mount, and that Aaron had built them a calf, they all began to dance about it; and when Jeroboam ſet up his calf…s ten tribes revolted with him, yea it is ſaid, Hee cauſed all Iſrael to ſinne: And we may obſerve it daily amongſt us if theſe grolls ſeduce but any giddy-headed Gentlewoman that is rich or but any inferior Lady, and make them but turne Independents, what a noiſe there is by & by through the Kingdom of it, and how ſtaggering other poor unſtable women begin to be.

But if any great Noble man, or Courtier, or Parliament man, or ſome of our temporizing Presbyterian Miniſters but turn Independents, or is but rumor'd to favour that way, we ſee what revolt amongſt unſetled and ungrounded people their examples make in many places. Whereas the truely godly, & ſuch as are well grounded, know that the ſtars ſhall fall from heaven, and that they uſually chang themſelvs into Angels of light and ſeem to be the Miniſters p. 389of righteouſnee, that they may the better ſeduce; yet I ſay, ſuch as fear God and are rightly inſtructed, are not moved, but they abhor the evill of their wayes, and cleave the faſter to the truth, and are of ſuch diſcerning ſpirits as they can well perceive, that it is for baſe ends and worldly reſpects that many have turned Independents; and it is well known and can be proved, That the Independents have perſwaded many if they would proſper in the world, that they ſhould turn to their party, for that was (as they ſaid) the thriving way. And it is taken notice of alſo, that very few but Independents are either greatly countenanced or preferred, or at any time rewarded for any ſervice they have done their Country. Now every generous ſpirit, eſpecially a conſtant well grounded Chriſtian deteſts and abominates all ſuch baſe dealings, and ſuch baſe fellows as will be of any religion for earthly fading momentary and uncertain things, and therefore ſtand more ſtoutly to the truth and their ancient principles: yet ſuch as have a mind ſpeedily to get into the chayre of preferment, or to be in any Office, or to grow rich, they turn Independents; and I am moſt confident, that whereas the Independents brag, that many of the Lords are Independents, they notoriouſly belye them: but this I dare preſume, that if Sir I. S. can from his great and rich Independent friends, procure a yearly and certain pention to be confirmed upon my lord Tapps, that upon that condition he would turn independent, and ſo then they ſhould be ſure to have one lord of their party; and then alſo Sir I. S. might haply attain unto the honour to be my lord Tapps his Chaplain which he is very fit for, and might alſo reſide in Cambridge where he may ſo indoctrinate his plumbeous cerebrocities, as he may ſpeedily be able to diviſinate a ſnayle pye or a muſhrome into two particles.

But to be ſerious, if a few obſcure Presbyters here amongſt us that were never really guilty either of learning or honeſty, revolting once from the truth through covetouſneſſe and other baſe ends, have notwithſtanding with their fayned holineſſe, and under pretence of their long prayers devoured ſo many widowes houſes, and ſeduced and deceived ſuch multitudes of ſimple people as they have done, and that in a ſhort time, what multitudes of people may all men thinke thoſe learned Rabbies, thoſe Prieſts with all the Apoſtles daily converted in Jeruſalem, when their doctrine was ſo crowned with ſo many miracles? If the holy Scripture ſhould p. 390never have delivered it unto the world that they converted innumerable companies, yet common reaſon would perſwade every man that they muſt needs have converted many thouſands by the Miniſtry of them all; but when the Scripture relateth unto us, Matt. 3. and Marke the 1. and in many other places, that all Ieruſalem went out to the Baptiſme of John, and that they were baptized by him in Iordan, and were made good Chriſtians; and when it farther alſo recordeth, that there were three thouſand converted at one Sermon and Miracle, and ſaith in the ſame chapter that the Lord added daily unto the Church ſuch as ſhould be ſaved, and when in the fourth chapter it relateth the converſion of five thouſand men more, and in the fifth chapter ſaith, that more multitudes both of beleevers of men and women were added to the Lord, and when in the ſixth chapter it ſaith, that the word of God increaſed, and that the number of the Diſciples, multiplyed in Ieruſalem greatly, and a great company of the Prieſts were obedient to the faith; all theſe places witneſſe unto the world that they came into the Church in ſuch great bodies as they could not now bee told; for when they came in by by three thouſand at a time, and five thouſand they could ſpeedily be reckoned; but when the increaſe grew ſo great, they were forced then to ſet them downe as it were by whole ſale, not in enumerate parcels, and ſpake of them as of numberleſſe companies, ſaying multitudes of beleevers, both of men and women, that is to ſay, mighty congregations and great aſſemblies of both ſexes, in ſuch abundance came in, as they could not be told, and as if this had not beene enough the holy Scripture ſpeakes upon all occaſions of the increaſe of the Word, and ſets downe in generall termes, that the number of the Diſciples multiplyed in Ieruſalem greatly, and a great company of the Prieſts were alſo obedient to the faith, and as if this had not beene ſufficient in many other places of the Acts, there is mention made of the increaſe of Beleevers, and in expreſſe words in the 21. of the Acts it is ſaid that there were many ten thouſands of Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem; now all men know, that all theſe could not poſsibly, no not a quarter of them meet in any one place or a few to communicate in all Ordinances to edification; neither was there any place or roome ſpacious enough to containe the very bodies of the tenth part of them, and if any place could have held the tenth part of them, yet then it had beene impoſſible p. 391that they could then have partaken in all acts of worſhip to edification; for they could not have heard the voice of their Miniſters preaching unto them: for by daily experience wee ſee it, that in one of our Churches here in London, which will not, nor cannot hold halfe ten thouſand, that halfe of them ordinarily cannot well heare the voice of the Miniſter, though hee have a ſtrong paire of Lungs; yea, I heare men daily complaine that they could not underſtand the Miniſter▪ preaching they ſtood ſo farre off from him, when notwithſtanding there were not three thouſand then in the Church; yea, and I my ſelf have been in leſſe Aſſemblies where all the people could not heare to edification: and therefore all reaſon will perſwade any man, that is not reſolved ever to reſiſt the truth, that there muſt of neceſſity be many congregations of Beleevers in Ieruſalem, where there were ſuch infinite multitudes; eſpecially they are bound to beleeve it when the Scripture in ſo many places, as I have quoted, ſaith there were many congregations and aſſemblies of Beleevers in that Church, which I have at this time briefly related, that if be poſſible I might at laſt ſatisfie Sir I. S. and perſwade him to beleeve the Scripture, and be ſatisfied with it, if hee will not beleeve mee, or be ſatisfied with any thing I can ſay to convince him of his error.

But if all I have hitherto writ will not ſatisfie his tender conſcience, and take his ſcruples out of his mind, I ſhall now before I conclude this point for a Corallary, deſire him to heare what my brother Burton, Saint Hanſerdo, two faithfull brethren of his ſociety, have writ concerning this buſines. It may be I. S. upon the teſtimony of two ſuch approved witneſſes, and great Maſters of the Aſſembly of the congregationall way, will be perſwaded that there were many Congregations of Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, though he would not be ſatisfied with any thing I have delivered.

I cannot but often make mention of my brother Burton, and Saint Hanſerdo, becauſe all the Ill-dependents judge them to bee very honeſt men, and ſuppoſe that they will ſpeake the truth, and I beleeve alſo that Sir I. S. hath a very venerable opinion of them both for their ſingular wiſdome and erudition; I intreat I. S. therefore in the firſt place to heare my brother Burton ſapientum octavum; it may be his words may ſatisfie his ſcrupulous and tender conſcience, who in the ninth page of his wiſe booke ſayes, that p. 392the beleevers in Ieruſalem, when there were but three thouſand of them, and five thouſand at moſt were conſtrained to ſever themſelves into divers companies in ſeverall private hou es to communicate. Saint Hanſerdoes words are theſe, page 10. & 11. The Apoſtles and all the Beleevers in Ieruſalem, met together in one place, to wit, the Temple, and in Solomons Porch, and brake bread from houſe to houſe. Thus they both declare their faith, and opinion cencerning the number and aſſemblies of Beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, and that in the infancy of it. Now then when there were but about three thouſand and ſix ſcore ſoules at the firſt and five thouſand in all at laſt, according to the computation of my brother Burton, and Saint Hanſerdo, they were then forced into many congregations and companies, as having no convenient place ſpacious enough as wherein to break bread: ſo that they were forced to heare the Word in the Temple, that is one place, and in Solomons Porch, that is another place, and to communicate in ſeverall private houſes, according to my brother Burtons doctrin, and to break bread from houſe to houſe; or houſe by houſe, and that dayly or day by day, according to Saint Hanſerdoes learning, that is in innumerable places; I ſay when by the teſtimony of theſe two Seraphicall Doctors it is evident that in the very infancy and childhood of that Church There were many Aſſe blies and Congregations, and that in ſeverall private houſes or from houſe to houſe: how many congregations and aſſemblies of beleevers may we ſuppoſe were then in the Church at Ieruſalem▪ when many more great congregations and Aſſemblies of Beleevers, were dayly added to that Church, and when the holy Word of God in expreſſe termes, in the 21. chap. of the Acts ſaith, There were many ten thouſands of beleevers there? without all controverſie there muſt needs at that time be a mighty many of Aſſemblies and Congregations, and yet in the very infancy of it, and when there were but five thouſand beleevers, as my brother Burton and Saint Hanſerdo do both witneſſe, they then had divers Aſſemblies and Congregations and communicated in ſeverall private houſes, and brake bread from houſe to houſe, that is to ſay, in every houſe. And therefore I have now great hope, that not onelyonly Mr Knollys will confeſſe the brethren have acknowledged That there were many Congregations and Aſſemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, but that Sir I. S. his ſcrupulous conſcience alſo will be ſatisfied p. 392about this point, eſpecially when it commeth ratified not onelyonly by Scripture, but by the teſtimony and witneſſe alſo of my brother Burton and Saint Hanſerdo.

But if Sir I. S. ſhall ſtill perſevere in the error of his wayes, and ſhall be ſo far from beleeving that there were many Congregations and Aſſemblies of beleevers in the Church of Ieruſalem, as he will yet ſwear, there were no more Saints there, then could or did dayly all meet in one place or congregation, then I will conclude of him that he is a gentleman very fit to be made a Knight of the poſt, whether I ſend him, to be whipped out of his grolleries.

Having for the gratifying Mr Knollys and Sir I. S. and for the undeceiving of all cordiall and well affected Chriſtians, and ſuch as deſire to know the truth, been the more large in this controverſie; I ſhall now refer my ſelfe and all that I have ſaid concerning my firſt and ſecond propoſitions, to the judgement of every indifferent Reader, whether I have not ſufficiently proved, not onelyonly that there were many congregations of beleevers in the Church at Jeruſalem, but that it is likewiſe acknowledged by the brethren, that there were many Aſſemblies of them there, if any credit may be given either to my brother Burton or to Saint Hanſerdo: and if they ſhall judge that I have ſufficiently proved it, both from Scripture and Reaſon and from the teſtimony of two prime witneſſes of the Independent party, againſt whom there can be no juſt exception by any of the Congregationall way, they being of their own fraternity, Mr Henry Burton and Saint Hanſerdo by name; I ſhall again challenge Mr Knollys his promiſe, who hath ingaged himſelfe, That if I could by the expreſſe word of Scripture evince there were many congregations of beleevers in the Church at Jeruſalem, that he would relinquiſh his grolliſh opinion of Independency. Now therefore when I have done it both by Scripture and the two witneſſes above ſpecified, I ſay again I challenge his promiſe, and if he notwithſtanding all I have writ, will not abandon this his error, I ſhall never eſteem him to be either a man of faith or common honeſty, and ſhall for ever hereafter proclaim both himſelf and all ſuch teachers as he is fighters againſt God and his truth, and reſiſters of his holy Spirit, and ſuch as withhold the truth from the people in unrighteouſneſſe. And ſo I conclude this ſecond Propoſition and come now to ſee what they have to ſay to the third.

p. 394My third Propoſition is this, viz. That the Apoſtles and Presbyters, Governed, Ordered, and Ruled this Church, conſiſting of many congregations and Aſſemblies, by a common Councell and Presbytery. This is my third Propoſition, which is evident out of many places of the Acts, and ſundry other places of holy Writ, ſome of which with my Arguments, I ſhall here relate in order as they were firſt ſet down in my book called Independency not Gods Ordinance, the which Mr Knollys, I. S. and my brother Burton indeavoured to Anſwer unto. And after I have faithfully related the Arguments I deduced from thoſe ſeverall Scriptures, by which I then made good my third Aſſertion, I ſhall alſo truely ſet down the Anſwer of Hanſerdo Knollys, and I. S. to all thoſe Arguments.

The places therefore of Scripture, with my Arguments gathered from thence, are theſe following, Acts 11. 27. And in thoſe dayes there came Prophets from Ieruſalem to Antioch, and there ſtood up one of them named Agabus, and ſignified by the Spirit, that there ſhould be great dearth through all the world, which came to paſſe in the dayes of Claudius Caeſar; then the Diſciples every man according to his ability, determined to ſend reliefe unto the brethren that dwelt in Iudaea, which alſo they did and ſent it to the Presbyters by the hands of Barnabas and Saul. Here in theſe laſt words we ſee that the Presbyters, and none but the Presbyters received the Almes; for it is ſaid, They ſent it to the Presbyters by the hands of Barnabas and Saul, which ſufficiently proveth, That the Presbyters in all Churches were the men in government, as who had the Ordering and authority of appointing unto the Deacons, how they ſhould diſtribute thoſe monyes, that they might be beſt improved and diſpoſed of, which is an act of government, as all men (that know what belongs unto government) will acknowledge.

Now ſhould it be granted that theſe Presbyters here ſpoken of, were the Presbyters of Iudaea, which notwithſtanding is not ſpecified, but onelyonly the diſtreſſed brethren in Iudaea; yet had it been in expreſſe words ſet down, That the Almes had been ſent to the Presbytery of Judaea, the Presbytery of Ieruſalem muſt neceſſarily have been included in it, as being the Metropolis of Iudea; and it was an ordinary thing for the Churches that were abroad, and particularly that of Antioch, to ſend to the Apoſtles and Presbyters of Ieruſalem, as we may p. 395ſee Act. 11. ver. 22. and Act. 15. And by all probability Paul and Barnabas brought theſe Almes to the Presbyters of Ieruſalem; for he in the fifteenth chapter of his Epiſtle to the Romans, maketh mention of a contribution that was made in Macedonia and Achaia for the poor Saints in Jeruſalem; Whether the Apoſtle, ſaith he, was going to Miniſter unto them, and deſired the Romans to pray for him, that he may be delivered from the unbeleeving Jews, and that his ſervice for Jeruſalem might be accepted of the Saints, which by the learned Interpreters is generally taken that Paul ſpeaketh of this time, and that they were then ſent to Ieruſalem from Antioch. But howſoever, it ſhould be underſtood, that theſe almes were ſent to the Presbyters in Iudea, yet theſe two concluſions neceſſarily reſult from it.

The firſt, that this expreſſion comprehends alſo the Preſbyters of Ieruſalem as being the chiefe City of Iudea.

The ſecond, that the Presbyters in all Churches were the men to whom the government and ordering of buſineſſes was committed, and in whoſe hands the power and authority lay of diſpoſing of the very charity and bounty of the brethren to all the neceſſitated Diſciples within their juriſdictions, and who gave directions to the Deacons how they ſhould be diſtributed to the beſt emolument and benefit of the poor, and according to the intention of theſe benefactors, which, as it is an act of Government, and that a principall one, ſo of neceſſity the Presbyters muſt then meet together, that by their joynt and common conſent and councell, all things may be rightly ordered.

But in the chap. 15. v. 2. 4. 6. 22. the Presbyters of Ieruſalem by name are expreſſed, and in chap. 16. and in Act. 21. v. 17. 18. in theſe words, Then they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certaine other of them ſhould go up to Ieruſalem unto the Apoſtles and Preſbyters, about this queſtion, and they were received of the Church, and of the Apostles and Preſbyters, to whom they declared all things that God had done with them, and how that there roſe up certain of the Sect of the Phariſees which beleeved, ſaying, that it was needfull to circumciſe them, and to command them to keepe the law of Moſes, and the Apostles and Preſbyters came together to conſider of this matter, &c. ver. 22. Then pleaſed it the Apostles and Preſbyters with the whole Church, &c. and chap. 16. v. 4. And as they went through the Cities they delivered them the Decrees p. 396to keepe, that were ordained of the Apostles and Preſbyters which were at Ieruſalem, &c. and chap. 21. v. 17, 18. And when we were come to Ieruſalem, the Brethren received us gladly, and the day following Paul went in with us unto Iames, and all the Preſbyters were preſent, and v. 25. As touching the Gentiles which beleeve, we have written and concluded, ſay the Preſbyters, that they obſerve no ſuch thing.

Out of all which places, before I forme my arguments to prove That the Church of Ieruſalem, conſiſting of many Congregations and Aſſemblies, was governed by a Preſbytery, that is, by the joynt conſent and common Councel of the Apoſtles and Preſbyters, which made but a grand Preſbytery: I ſhall deſire all men to conſider, that howſoever the Apoſtles in the places above ſpecified, are differenced by that title from the Presbyters, yet in all acts of government performed by them in the Church of Jeruſalem, they were for the ſubſtance of them ordinary acts, ſuch as Presbyters dayly performe, and therefore anſwerably the Apoſtles themſelves are in them to be conſidered as Presbyters, that is, men governing in an ordinary way, as ſuch as had received the keyes, which is the power of juriſdiction, and therefore were in their ordinary imployment (though at other times in their ſeverall miniſtries, and going from Nation to Nation to preach, as Chriſts extraordinary Ambaſſadours; 2 Cor. 5. they uſed ſuperlative authority, which God had inveſted them with and graciouſly beſtowed upon them for the benefit of the Church and the good of his people) and I am induced ſo to beleeve, becauſe the Apoſtles in holy Scripture are called Presbyters, that is, the ordinary Governours and Magiſtrates of the Church, though the more principall and primary ones, and therefore did act as Presbyters in ordinary acts of Church Government, and for a pattern to all Churches in like adminiſtration: Neither may any ſuppoſe, for all this, that the Apoſtles did fall lower in their power, in that they acted as Presbyters; for our brethren do acknowledge, that at Ieruſalem the Apoſtles acted as Preſbyters of a particular Congregation; Now then if they did not fall lower in their power by acting as Presbyters in a particular Congregation, what reaſon will dictate to any man, that they ſhould fall lower in their power by acting as Presbyters in a joynt Presbytery? The truth is, to govern and to rule the Church was the ordinary imployment of the Apoſtles, and therefore they p. 397are ſtiled Presbyters, which is to ſay, the Rulers, Councellours, Magiſtrates, and Governours of the Church; neither, for all this, did their Presbyterſhips exclude their Apoſtleſhips, nor did their acting as Presbyters, deprive them of their Apoſtolique power, nor of that Apoſtolique ſpirit which guided them, even in theſe things wherein they acted as Presbyters; for although under one notion we looke upon the Apoſtles as extraordinary men, yet under another, as in all thoſe affaires of publique concernment, and in matter of government, and for that end the aſſembling of themſelves together, we do not conſider them as Apoſtles, for therein they did not act as Apoſtles, with a tranſcendent and infallible authority, and in an extraordinary way, but as Presbyters, and ordinary Governours and Councellours, and in ſuch a way as makes their meetings and actions a patterne and preſident to ſucceeding ages, and of the Presbyters congregating of themſelves together for common acts of Government, whether in a Presbyterian or Synodicall way.

And as it is in civill affaires, and in the government of Kingdomes and States, ſo it was then in the Church of God; in a Kingdome ſome of the Counſellors are of the more ſecret admiſſion, and are generally called Cabbinet Counſellors, and are counted of as extraordinary men, and others of the generall & ordinary Councel; yet when all theſe ſit in a Common Councell together, to conſult about matters of State and publique concernment, they …it then together as ordinary Councellours, and every one of them has as much authority and liberty to debate things by reaſon and diſpute in way of conſultation, and to give his vote about any thing, as well as any of the moſt extraordinary Councellors; and this hath been the practiſe of all ages.

We read that Huſhy when he was by Abſalon called into counſell, had his voice and gave his vote as well as Achitophel the Oracle of that time; and as in the Common-Councels and Parliaments of Kingdomes, whatſoever honour, dignity, or extraordinary imployments any of them were taken up in before their ſeſſion and meeting, or whatſoever dignity or titles of honour they have extraordinarily above others, and take their places accordingly before they come together into the Parliament, yet they all ſitting as Judges and Peeres in the Kingdome, the meaneſt Lord in the Kingdome hath as much authority there as the greateſt, p. 398and ſo in the Houſe of Commons: as they are Judges, and choſen by the people for that purpoſe, have all of them, even the meaneſt, as much voice and authority in way of conſultation as the greateſt: And ſo likewiſe in the Synod or Aſſembly now of Divines, the meaneſt Presbyter hath as much voice and liberty in way of debate and voting, as the greateſt Prelate there.

And even ſo it was in the Church of Jeruſalem, when the Apoſtles thoſe extraordinary gifted men, and the Ordinary Presbyters met together in counſel, they all acted there as counſellors and ordinary presbyters; and therefore in all thoſe particular actions of the Apoſtles, wee have mention of in their ſeverall meetings, whether wee conſider them by themſelves alone, and not joyned with the Presbyters, or in common councell with them, thoſe actions, I ſay, were done and acted by men which were Apoſtles, but not as they were Apoſtles excluſively, ſo as they might not act them under another notion, neither will our brethren affirme it; for if the Apoſtles did preach, take the truſt of the goods of the Church, ordaine Officers, as Apoſtles excluſively and in an extraordinary way, and as by a priviledge peculiar to themſelves, it would follow from thence, that none may doe any of thoſe things but Apoſtles, which the Brethren will not aſſent unto: as for ſome inſtances.

In that ordination of Deacons in the ſixth of the Acts, the Apoſtles there acted partly as Apoſtles, and partly as Presbyters; for in conſtituting an Office in the Church, which was not before they acted their Apoſtolicall authority: but in ordaining men to that office which the Church had choſen, they did act as Presbyters: and there is no doubt but the Brethren will yeeld to this; for if they will not grant that the Apoſtles did herein act partly as Apoſtles, & partly as Presbyters, they muſt then accord, that they acted either onelyonly as Presbyters, or onelyonly as Apoſtles: If onelyonly as Preſbyters, thence it will follow, that all Presbyters have power, not onelyonly to ordaine men, but to erect a new office in the Church: If onelyonly as Apoſtles, then hence is no warrant for Presbyters, ſo much as to ordaine men into any office, nor for ſo much as to meet together to conſult about acts of government, either in a Presbyterian or in a Synodicall way: and by this meanes all Church government would ſpeedily be overthrowne.

Neither is it a difficult thing in our Brethren, or any other man p. 399to diſtinguiſh betweene theſe two: for looke by what infallible rule they make ſome thing in the practiſe of the Apoſtles, to bee not onelyonly a patterne and preſident for imitation, but even a proofe of inſtitution, yet decline other things practiſed by the ſame Apoſtles as things not onelyonly by inſtitution, not commanded to us, but not permitted to bee imitated by us: By the ſame rule, they may infallibly diſtinguiſh betweene what they acted as Apoſtles, and what they acted as Presbyters, and as ordinary Counſellors, Iudges and Governours; and withall they may infer and conclude, that what they acted as Presbyters, and by joynt and common conſent, it was to give a patterne and preſident to all Presbyters and Synods in all ſucceeding ages; and as the taking in of the conſent of the Church in the choice of Deacons, Act. 6. was to give a patterne for the ſufferage and voice of the people in all Churches to the end of the world, in choſing of their Deacons; ſo for another inſtance, as there were many Congregations in the Church of Ieruſalem, and divers, Aſſemblies, and all theſe congregations made but one Church, and the Apoſtles and Presbyters who were Officers governed that joyntly and by a common Councell, (as our Brethren acknowledge:) Here likewiſe they left a patterne and preſident to all ages, for ſeverall Congregations and Aſſemblies in a Citie, or vicinity, to unite into one Church; and for the Officers and Presbyters of theſe Congregations to governe that Church joyntly in a Colledge and Presbytery,

And for a third inſtance, as the Apoſtles and Presbyters meet together in a Synodicall way, and the Apoſtles in that Aſſembly acted not by an Apoſtolicall and infallible ſpirit, no more then the Presbyters did, (as when they were writing of Scripture) but ſtating the Queſtion, and debating it from Scripture in an ordinary way, as it is at large diſcuſſed in Acts 15. (which wee never reade they did when they writ the Scripture,) and having by diſputing, arguing and ſearching the Scripture, found what was the good and acceptable will of God; thereupon they determined the queſtion, ſaying, it ſeemed good to the Holy Ghoſt and us, as the Aſſembly now of Divines, or any other, for ought I know, upon like aſſurance of Scripture warrant, may doe. In this action alſo, and their ſo doing, the Apoſtles and Presbyters left an example and preſident to all the Presbyters in all ſucceeding ages, what they ſhould doe upon the like occaſions, for the p. 400deciding of controverſies and differences of opinions in Religion. viz. To congregate and meet together in ſome one place, to ſtate the queſtions, and to debate from Scripture, and to follow the written Word, as their rule in all things; and whatſoever they doe, to doe it by joynt conſent, and the the Common-councell of them all, or by the moſt voices; but in all theſe their proceedings they muſt ever cleave to the rule of the Word of God, or warrantable authority and evidence of reaſon deduced from thence, as then the Apoſtles and Presbyters did; yea, the very name of the Presbyters in Jeruſalem, ſignifieth the Iudges, Counſellors, Magiſtrates and Rulers of that Church, who had the Keyes committed unto them as well as the Apoſtles: and by their place were more peculiarly overſeers of that Church, as they were tyed unto it, then the Apoſtles; as the Presbyters of Epheſus were in that Church, and were aſſigned in their ſeverall places to execute their office, and to looke to their particular charges in the government; ſo that whether the Apoſtles were preſent or abſent, the Presbyters had the government laid upon their ſhoulders; and if the Apoſtles themſelves had taught contrary to this Conſtitution, or an Angel from Heaven, Gal. 1. I am confident the Presbyters would not have obeyed them, nor have relinquiſhed their authority, neither ought they, but would ſtill have kept that rule, power and authority which God had put in their hands: ſo that for my owne particular, I looke upon the Apoſtles in all theſe ſeverall actions, and in all thoſe acts of government, joyned and met together with the Presbyters, as I looke upon Counſellors and Iudges in the great Councell of both Kingdoms, where all the Iudges have equall power and authority in deciſive voting, and doe verily beleeve, that the Presbyters ſitting at any time in councel with any one or more of the Apoſtles, did act as authoritatively as the Apoſtles themſelves, and I am ever able to prove it and make it good againſt any man, that the Presbyters might as well conclude, It ſeemed good to the Holy Ghoſt and to us, as well as the Apoſtles: and may ſay, we have written and concluded, as well as the Apoſtles: As any two or three of the Parliament, whether of the Lords or Commons, may as well ſay, wee have made ſuch an Ordinance, as any twenty of them, or the whole Councell, and that without diſparagement or impeaching the dignity of any, when they joyned with them in that worke, and aſſented to it; p. 401and in this very notion I looke upon the Presbyters in Ieruſalem, joyned with the Apoſtles, and conſider them, as in my contemplations I looke upon the Lords and Commons now ſitting in the great Councell, as the grand civill Presbytery of the Kingdome, where all binding Ordinances are to bee paſſed by the joynt conſent and Common-counſell of them all, and whoſe place and office it is to command and rule, and the peoples office and place to obey and yeeld ſubjection to whatſoever they command and injoyne, according to the will of God and for the common good and preſervation of themſelves and the whole Kingdome; and that whoſoever ſhould reſiſt this their juſt authority, are guilty of contumacy and are high offenders and delinquents; for God hath laid the government upon them, and left the duty of obedience to the ſubjects who may not without a publicke call intermeddle with matters of government.