A Defense of the Sermon Preached at the Consecration of the Bishop of Bath, Book 1 · Chapter 8

A Defense of the Sermon Preached at the Consecration of the Bishop of Bath · Book 1 · Chapter 8

p. 164CHAP. VIII. The proofe of their Exposition of Ambrose, disproued, and the reas…os which I alleadged, why the Counsell of the Seniors, was neglected, defended.

Serm. Sect. 7. Pag. 14. But let vsus examine the force of their Argument.Ad Pag. 39.

Ambrose saith, there were Elders in the Church, as well as in the Synagogue: Therefore, say they, there were Elders. It followeth not, &c: to learned Presbyters, in the middle of pag. 16.

THeir Argument is heere such, as in this question of Lay-Elders, perpetuallie they vse in all their proofes, of Scriptures, and Fathers, that is, from the genus to the species: yea, to a fancied, or fained species, affirmatiuely. As if they should say, hee is a Magistrate, therefore a Constable, an ancient Cittizen, therefore an Alderman, or rather thus: It is a man, therefore the man in the moone. I see a shippe, therefore it is Argo. Like the wise man of Athens, who standing in Pyraeo on the key there, saide eueryevery shippe he saw was his. Sauing that he was somewhat wiser, because he had a shippe at the Sea: These mens shippe, doth swimme in their owne braines.

So strong is their fancie, as wee shall heare, that when either Christ saith, (a)(a)Matt. 18.Matt 18Tell the Church, that is, as themselues expound it, the rulers of the Church, they strongly conclude, therefore tell Lay-Elders: or Luke (b)(b)Act: 14.23.that Paul and Barnabas, ordayned Presbyters, ergo, Lay-Elders, or Iames, (c)(c)Iam: 5.is any sicke, let him send for the Presbyters, ergo, for Lay-Elders: or Paul (d)(d)Rom. 12.8Rom 12:8hee that ruleth, Marke how he speaketh of a ruler, therefore of p. 165a Lay-Elder: God hath appointed gouernements, therefore of Lay-Elders: or Ignatius (f)(f)Ad Trallian.be subiect to the Presbyters, as to the Apostles of Christ, ergò, to Lay-Elders: or Tertullianus, (g)(g)Apolo. 39Certaine approued Seniors be presidents, &c: ergo, Lay Elders: or Ierome (h)(h)In Esa. 3Isa 3wee hauehave a Senate of Presbyters, Ergo, of Lay-Elders. And that no man should liue in feare of the great stroakes, which this great champion hath threatned, let him vnderstand, that these be all the strokes that he will strike, when his turne of striking commeth.

To this argument, and all the rest, I answere by denying the consequence, which is so badde, as the refuter is loath to Father it; and yet neither in this, nor in any other of their testimonies, they hauehave or can make no better. Well, saith he, Whatsoeuer the argument is, the answere is well worse. meaning, as it seemeth, the reason of the answere, which was this: for euen the Synagogue had Seniors of the Priests, as well as of the people. My reason may thus be explained: If not onelyonly the Church had Seniors, that were ministers, whose aduise was neglected in Ambrose his time, but euen also the Sinagogue (meaning Israell, or the state of the Iewes) had Seniors of the Priests; then it followeth not, that the Seniors of whom Ambrose speaketh, were Lay-Elders. But the antecedent is true in both the parts of it:

Therefore the consequent:

The consequent of the proposition is necessarie: for an argument from the genus to the species, doth not hold affirmatiuely. Genus saith Fabius, (i)(i)Quintil. li: 5. c: 10.ad probandum speciem minimū valet, plurimum ad refellendum, the generall is of no force, to proue the speciall affirmatiuely, though it bee of great force to disproue it, if you argue from it negatiuely. As for example, it followeth no…, because it is a tree, that therefore it is a plane tree. It is not necessary, saith y^e Philosopher (k)(k)Topic 2.2that what is affirmed of the genus, should also be affirmed of the species.

As touching the assumption: the former part, viz: that the Church had seniors, which were ministers, I tooke for granted, because either all those places of Scriptures and Fathers as I say, or at least some, as my aduersarie will confesse, p. 166where Presbyters be named, Ministers are vnderstood.

The second part I proue out of(l)(l)Ier. 19.1. Ps. 37.2.Jer 19:1Ps 37:2 Ierem: 19.1. where the Prophet is commanded to take with him some, not onelyonly of the Seniors of the people, but also of the Seniors of the Priests, that is, men of authoritie as well of the Ecclesiasticall state as of ciuill.

Which words, though the refuter vnderstand as I doe, as prouing, not that the Iewes had an Eccclesiasticall Senate, consisting partly of the Priests, and partly of the Elders of the people (for of such a presbyterie, though there be much talke, yet there is no proofe) but that in the Iewish state there were as well Seniors of the priests, as Seniors of the people: notwithstanding the seely Philosopher, would faine make the Reader belieue, that I confesse (which most confidently I doe denie) that in the Church of the Iewes, there was an Ecclesiasticall Eldership, consisting both of the priests and Seniors of the people: and therevpon would inferre, that this testimonie maketh mee: Because (forsooth) Ambrose acknowledgeth that there was such an Eldership in the Church, as had beene among the Iewes. But among the Iewes there was as hee saith, I confesse, an Ecclesiasticall Senate consisting of the Priests, and Elders of the people, therefore Ambrose acknowledgeth such a Presbyterie to hauehave bene in the Church, consisting of Ministers, and Lay-Elders.

First for Ambrose: hee doth not speake of Eldership, either among Iewes or Christians; but sheweth, that because both the Iewes and Christians had Seniors, this is an Argument, that age is honorable, seeing that ancient men were of authoritie, both among the Iewes, who had Seniors as well in the Ecclesiasticall as ciuil state, and also among Christians.

Now, to inferre from hence, that either the Iewes or Christians had an Ecclesiasticall senate consisting in part of Lay-Elders, is a vaine collection. For if by Synagogue is meant the state of the Iewes (they might hauehave) as indeed they had) a Senate consisting of Priests and Leuites, and chiefe of the people; but that was not an Ecclesiasticall Senate, as hereafter shall be shewed, but their chiefe Counsell of state▪ …f by Synagogue, you vnderstād only y^e ecclesiasticall state of the Iews; p. 167in that, ther were no other seniors, but of the Clergie of Israel.

And as for my confession, I protest, that I meant nothing lesse, then that the Church of the Iewes had an Ecclesiasticall Senate consisting of the Seniors of the Priests and Elders of the people. For I know it to be an idle conceit, hauing no other warrant, but the probabile est, of a new writer, a chiefe party in this cause. But hereof more in my answer to his allegation, out of Matth: 18.

Besides, can any man that doth not wilfully peruert my meaning, vnderstand me to speake of any, but the Seniors of the priests, saying, & of such Ambrose speaketh, when he saith, in the Church, § Sect. 2. Their argument vrged, & refuted. Ad pag. 40.or Church-causes, nothing was don without their consent.

But it may be, that your former consequence may be confirmed, if the testimonie of Ambrose be better pressed vponupon vsus, to which purpose I say in the Sermon: If it be saide that Ambrose speaketh, &c. If it be said? saith the refuter, he knoweth it well enough, that it is said, and shalbe maintained, that Ambrose speaketh of such Seniors, whose aduise was neglected, through the default of the teachers, (not learned or teachers, as M. D. setteth it downe) and therefore of such Seniors as were not teachers. Cunningly therefore and to weaken the force of our argument, doth hee here so produce and alledge it, as if it were rather conceiued for our helpe by himselfe then propounded and expressed by vsus.

Let him therefore, for his honestie and credits sake, shew the Reader where this testimonie of Ambrose is thus vrged. In the mean time, the Reader shal vnderstand these 2. things

First, that the disciplinarians, knowing that their proofes out of Scriptures and Fathers, will not necessarily conclude for them, if they should seeme to inforce them by discourse: Therefore they vse this poore pollicie, to holde them out, (as it were Mineruaes shield, as if they were so pregnant, that they need not to be vrged, but the very naming of them were sufficient to put vsus to silence.—

They thinke it therfore, their best course, in all their writings almost to take it for graunted, that their discipline is the very discipline and kingdome of Christ, their presbyterie, the very ordinance of Christ: and when they should proue it, as they would seeme most sufficiently to doe, they p. 168holde out a few places of the Scriptures and Fathers, barely quoted, being so farre from vrging them, as that for the most part, they doe not so much as cite the words: (thus in the booke of H. I. dedicated to the King.Pag: 67. Pag: 26.29.31. 1604. vrging a reformation after the newe-cut. Thus in the protestation that came out of the North, made in the yeare 1606. and printed Anno 1608. Thus in this worthy worke of the refuter, as after you shall heare, when he commeth to deale his blowes) thinking belike that the very naming of such witnesses will sufficiently, if not daunt vsus, yet satisfie their simple followers, who are too easily ledde with shewes.

The other thing is, that I hauehave vrged this testimony for them, and (to speake the trueth) hauehave inforced it better, and made it stronger for them, then euer they made it, or hauehave yet the witte to conceiue.

But to answere their argument, for now it is theirs, neither must my wordes be retained, learned, or teachers, &c: The Reader therfore is to remember what before was saide, that the word Doctorum, being ambiguous, signifying either learned, or teachers, this place of Ambrose doth accordingly admit two interpretations.

The one, as it signifieth Learned, and is a common title to the Bishops and Presbyters: the other, as it signifieth Doctors or Teachers, and was a title in those times peculiar to the BB. as shalbe proued. The former of these, which seemeth more to fauor the Lay-Elders, my aduersary doth reiect, & insisteth in the latter. But he doth not shew (as me thinkes he should) how this testimony then will conclude for Lay-Elders. It was sufficient for him, to contradict mee, though hee left his cause in w…rse case then he found it. For my part, I am so farre from this spirit of contradiction, that I doe agree with him in preferring the latter exposition, which by Doctorum, vnderstandeth Doctors, before the other.

Let vsus see then, how that sense being retained, this place doth conclude for Lay-Elders.

All Seniors that were not called Doctors, in those times, were Lay-Elders.

p. 169The Seniors, whose counsell was neglected by the Doctors, were such Seniors, as in those times were not called Doctors:

Therefore the Seniors, whose counsell was neglected by the Doctors, were Lay-Elders.

I denie the proposition: because in those times the title of Doctor or Teacher was peculiar to BB: we therefore may with more truth affirme that all Seniors or Presbyters that were not called Doctors in that time, were Ministers; and thereupon conclude, that therefore the Seniors, whose Counsell was neglected by the Doctors, were Ministers.

For the clearing of this matter,§ Sect. 3. Foure things declared. I will briefly shew these foure things.

1. That not Presbyters, but Bishops, were in those times called Doctors.

2. That the Presbyters, though they were not called Teachers, were notwithstanding Ministers.

3. That certaine ancient or principall Ministers called Seniores, in the primitiue Church, did so assist the Bishop, that nothing almost of importance was done without their counsell and aduise.

4. That their counsell and assistance was much neglected, and themselues much debased in Ambrose his time.

For the first:First that BB. were called Doctores. After that Arrius, being a Presbyter, had poysoned the Church with his heresie; the Presbyters or Ministers, were in many Churches restrained from preaching. So that the Bishops, who before were the principall, in Ambrose his time, they were almost the onelyonly Teachers; and for this cause the name of Doctors was appropriated vntounto them. And this is so cleare a case, that the Bishops in those times were in a manner the onelyonly Doctors; that (a)(a)li. 2. part. 2. pag. 42. & 43.therefore thought the Presbyters, which are mentioned in the Fathers, to hauehave beene no Ministers, because he perceiued they were no Teachers, and for this cause commendeth the decree of the Church of Alexandria, that the Presbyters should no more teach, and preferreth the Affrican Churches before others, for that the same order was obserued therein. As touching Alexandria, Socrates (b)(b)Socr. lib. 5. c. 22. foreign,reporteth that Presbyters p. 170doe not preach there, & Sozomen (c)(c)Sozom. li 7. c. 19.that the Bishop alone of the citie doth preach. foreign saith he foreign. Both of them assigning the heresie of Arrius to hauehave beene the originall occasion of that custome.

Concerning the vse of the Affrican Churches saith T. C. vntill Augustines time, that one testimonie (d)(d)Possidon. in vita. Augustini.is more then sufficient, whereby is affirmed that Valerius B. of Hippo did contrarie to the custome of the Affrican Church, in that he committed the office of teaching vntounto Augustine who was an Elder of that Church, and that he was checked therefore of the Bishops, checked I say, notwithstanding that Valerius is there declared to hauehave done it for support of his infirmitie, because himselfe was not so apt to preach. To conclude, his conceit is, that not the Presbyters mentioned in the Fathers and by him translated Elders, but the Bishop onelyonly had right to preach, the other but by indulgence or by commandement. In those times therefore the Bishops alone were called Doctores foreign at the least: for further proofe whereof, if you expect some other testimonie either of Ambrose, or of others in that time, you may hauehave recourse to his booke of offices, and to the Councell of Carthage. Ambrose (e)(e)De offic. li. 2. c. 24.therefore saith, that the Bishop must not be offended, if either a Presbyter or Deacon, or any other of the Clergie doe by mercy, fasting, integritie, learning or reading obtaine great estimation. Gratia enim ecclesiae laus Doctoris est, for the grace of the Church is the Doctors that is the Bishops praise. But if any doe not obey the Bishop and desiring to aduance himselfe, seeketh a… counterfeit affectation of learning, humilitie, or mercy, he is lifted vp with pride going astray from the truth. In the Councell of Carthage it was decreed, that the people which neuer had a Bishop of their owne, should not hauehave (f)(f)Conc. Carth. graec. c. 54. Carthag. 3. c. 42. Mat. 23.8.10.Matt 23:8Matt 23:10foreign a Doctor or Teacher of their owne, that is a Bishop: for so is the title of that chapter, that the parts of the Diocesse without the consent of the Bishop foreign should not receiue another Bishop.

§ Sect. 4. The 2. that Presbyters though not called doctores yet were Ministers.But hereupon we may not inferre with T. C. that therefore the Presbyteri mentioned in the Councells Fathers p. 171and histories of the Church, were no Ministers; or that by the word of God they had nothing to doe with the word and Sacraments. Farre be it from vsus so to thinke, for nothing is more euident, then that they were Ministers.

The Fathers knew no Lay-Presbyters, nor Lay-Deacons no more then Lay-Bishops; but reckoned these three,(g)(g)Conc. Aneyr. c. 1. &. 2. Can. Apost. 8.14.16.17.50. Conc. Nic. c. 3. Con. Carth. graec. c. 3. & 4. Carth. 2. c. 2. Antioch. c. 3. Chalced. c. 2. Sard. c. 10. &c. for sacred or consecrated persons, calling them three degrees of the Clergie; the Bishop, answering to the high Priest; the Presbyters, to the Priests; and the Deacons, to the Leuites. For proofe whereof, there are almost as many euidences in the Canons of the councells, as there be leaues.

But that it may most clearely appeare, that the Presbyters were Ministers, I will proue it first by their name, Secōdly by their office, thirdly, by some lawes that peculiarly concerned them. For their name: as they are most vsually called Presbyters, so oftentimes foreign or Sacerdotes and these names confounded with Presbyteri, that is, Priests. In the Councell of Carthage (h)(h)Con. Carth. 2. c. 2. grae c. 3.continencie is committed to Bishops, Presbyters, Deacons, as it becommeth holy Bishops, Priests and Leuits. Tertullian (i)(i)De prescript. aduers. herstico.reprouing the disorder of Hereticks saith, among them, hodie Presbyter qui cras laicus, nam & laicis Sacerdotalia munera iniungunt, he is to day a Presbyter who to morrow is a lay-man: for euen to lay-men doe they inioyne priestly functions.

Cyprian (k)(k)Lib. 4. Epist. 10.speaking of Numidiuns to be chosen a Presbyter saith he was reser…ed that God might adde him to our Clergy, and that he might adorne the decayed store of certaine Presbyters with glorious (l)(l)Sacerdotibus.Priests. And more plainely in another place he saith (m)(m)Cum. Episcopo Presbyteri Sacerdotali honore coniuncti. lib. 3. epist. 1.that the Presbyters are ioyned with the Bishops in priestly honour. Dionysius termed the Areopagite, insteed of Bishop, Presbyter and Deacon, into which three he distinguisheth the Clergie, vseth (n)(n)Ecclesiast. hierarch. c. 5.the names foreign for the Bishop, foreign for Presbyters, and foreign for Deacons. Sozomen (o)(o)Soz. li. 7. c. 19.also calleth them foreign that is Priests, Isidorus, (p)(p)Isid. de eccles. offic. lib. 2. c. 7.those who in the old Testament were called Sacerdotes, are they who who are called Presbyteri. And then hee setteth downe their office. That to them is committed p. 172the dispensation of diuine mysteries, they rule the Church, and in the consecration of the body and blood of Christ are partners with the Bishops, as also in teaching the people and office of preaching. The Ancient Councell of Ancyra q)q)Conc. Ancyr. c. 1.permitting the Presbyters (who hauing once sacrificed, did after refuse) to retaine their place; notwithstanding suspendeth them from the exercise of their function in these respects, forbidding them foreign: to offer the communion, to preach, or to minister in any part diuine seruice.

The learned Author of the vnfinished worke which goeth vnderunder the name of Chrysostome r)r)In Mat. 25. homil. 53.Matt 25by the seruant which receiued fiue talents and gained other fiue, vnderstandeth a Presbyter sent of God, whome he calleth sometimes Teacher and sometimes Priest: and sheweth how by his fiue talents he gaineth other fiue: that is, by the knowledge of Christ as a talent committed to him, a godly life; by the office of a Presbyter the careful gouernement of the Church: by the word, the sincere preaching of the word of truth: by baptisme, the begetting of worthy children to the Church: by the sacrifice; the offering of an holy and immaculate sacrifice for the people, and making intercession for their sinnes.

More particularly for the ministerie of the Sacraments, the Councell(s)(s)Conc. Laod. c. 8. of Laodic…a determined that those which returned from the heresie of the Cataphrygians, though of the Clergie among them, though supposed great men, must with all diligence be instructed and baptized either of the Bishops or Presbyters of the Church. Tertullian saith,(t)(t)Tertull. de baptism. Hier. adu. Lucifer. the chiefe Priest which is the Bishop hath right to giuegive baptisme, then Presbyters & Deacons, &c. In the Canons (u)(u)Can. Apost. 3. & 31. Conc. Neocaesar. 13. C. Carth. graec. 4. Con…. Elib. c. 32. C. Const. in Trullo. c. 26.called the Apostles & in diuerse Councells it is presupposed that to Presbyters it belongeth to administer the cōmunion In the Councell of Nice (x)(x)Conc. Nic. c. 18.the Deacons who are there said to hauehave no power to celebrate the Communion, are forbidden to deliuer it to the Presbyter who hath power, but must receiue it either at the Bishops or Presbyters hands. To omit other of the Fathers,(y)(y)Cypr. li. 3. epist. 14. & 15. doth not Ierome (z)(z)Hier. ad Euagr.expressely testifie, that the p. 173Presbyters prayers, the body and blood of Christ are consecrated. For the Leiturgie or saying of diuine seruice, it is reckoned (a)(a)Conc. Ancyr. c. 1. & 2.among the functions both of Presbyters and Deacons, and such Presbyters or Deacons as without the consent of their Bishop doe remoue to other Churches and refuse to returne when they are called by their B. are (b)(b)Can. Apost. 15. Conc. Antioch c. 3 & 4.forbidden foreign to minister or serue any more.

As for the ministery of the word; though Presbyters were for a time by reason of Arrius his fall restrained from preaching, yet both before and after they were allowed to preach. Among their functions, as you heard, the Councell of Ancyra (c)(c)Con. Ancyr. c. 1.reckoneth preaching. The 58. Canon (d)(d)Can. Apost. 58.of the Apostles so called, requireth them to instruct not onelyonly the laitie, but the Clergie also. Ignatius (e)(e)Ad Antioch.requireth them to feede the flocke. Origen (f)(f)In Ps. 37. hom. 1.Ps 37testifieth, that all BB. and all Presbyters or Ministers erudiunt nos, do instruct vsus, &c. Basil (g)(g)Ethic. …. 70.saith, that to them and to Deacons, in committed foreign the preaching of the Gospel. Caluin (h)(h)Instit. li. 4. c. 4. § 3.speaking of the primitiue Church, saith, it was the dutie in those times of the Bishop, as wel as of the Presbyters, to apply themselues to the ministerie of the word and Sacraments, Chrysost. (i)(i)Chry. in 1. Tim. 3.1 Tim 3hauing affirmed that there is no great differēce betweene a Bishop and a Presbyter rendreth this reason, for they also hauehave receiued foreign authoritie to teach, foreign & gouernement of the Church, and what things the Apostle hath said concerning Bishops, doe agre… also to Presbyters. In them therefore it is required that they should be foreign able to preach as most plainly appeareth by comparing that place with Tit. 1.5 7.9. Socrates (k)(k)Lib. 5. c. 22.reporteth that in Caesarea of Cappadocia, and in Cyprus on the Saterdaies and Lords daies in the euening foreign the Presbyters and B B. expound the scriptures.

§ Sect. 5. As touching the custome of Alexandria, in restraining the Presbyters from preaching, he (l)(l)Socrat. ibid. foreign.saith, that it began after Arrius troubled the Church: and Sozomen (m)(m)Sozom lib. 7. c. 19.likewise, that it was not the custome before Arrius being a Presbyter by his preaching broached his new opinions. And this is p. 174most plainely testified by Epiphanius, (n)(n)Haeres. 68.who saith that Arrius was a Presbyter in Alexandria foreign who was Rector of the Church called Baucalis, for all the Catholicke Churches, saith he in Alexandria are vnderunder one Archbishop, and to them seuerally are assigned Presbyters: whereof when he had named some, he saith in one of these was Colluthus, in another Carpones, in another Sarmatas, & Arrius in another. Now it is manifest, that eueryevery one of these at their accustomed meetings foreign teaching the people committed to their charge in their Sermons, made diuision in the people, whereof some inclined to Arrius, othersto Colluthus, some to Carpones, others to Sarmatas. And as they taught diuersly in their seuerall Churches, some one thing, some another: so the people called themselues, some Arrians, some Colluthians, &c.

Neither was it the custome of the Churches of Affrica, as T.C. gathereth, that Presbyters should not preach at all; but that they might not preach, nor administer the communion in the presence of the Bishop.

And that was it which both Valerius granted to Augustine being a Presbyter (o)(o)Possidon. in vita. Angust. c. 5.potestatem coram se in Ecclesia Euangelium predicandi power to preach the Gospell in the Church himselfe being present, contrarie to the vse and custome of the Affrican Churches, and also nonnulli Episcopi not all, but some Bishops found fault with. Whose reprehension Valerius regarded not, because he knew it was the custome in the East Churches (as appeareth by Chrysostomes homilies at Antioch.) And some other Bishops, (euen Aurelius (p)(p)August. Epist. 77.himselfe the Bishop of Carthage,) were so farre from finding fault with Valerius, that they followed his example. Insomuch that some other Presbyters hauing receiued the like power, began to preach the word to the people Coram Episcopis in the presence of the Bishops. But that so learned a man as T. C. should be so transported with preiudice as to thinke that Augustine was a Lay-presbyter I cannot sufficiently wonder, especially, considering that Valerius, when he had ordained him Presbyter, p. 175reioyced and gaue thankes (q)(q)Possid. in v…t. August. c. 5.to God, who had heard his prayers in sending such a one, as might, verbo Dei & doctrina salubri Ecclesiam Dei aedeficare edifie the Church of God, with the word of God and wholesome doctrine. Ierome (r)(r)De 7. ordin. Eccle.such another Lay-Presbyter no doubt) though hee grant that the Presbyters may not celebrate the Communion in the presence of the Bishop standing at the Altar (for so his words are Nec ego dico presentibus Episcopis, &c: though in Gratian (s)(s)Dist. 95. c. 6.it be corruptly written. Ecce ego dico) yet he saith, (t)(t)Ad Nepotian. pessimae consuetudinis est in quibusdam ecclesijs tacere Presbyteros & presentib. episcopis non loqui.it was a very bad custome in some Churches that Presbyters might not preach in the presence of Bishops. And such was the custome of the Church of Rome as appeareth by Leo (u)(u)Leo. epist. 88. in fine.who denieth it to be lawfull for Presbyters in the presence of the Bishop vnlesse he command them either to administer the Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ or to teach the people, &c.

The Councell of Vaux, (w)(w)Conc. vasens. 2. c. 2. tempore. Theodosij. 2.held not long after Ambrose his time, decreed for the edification of all Churches, and for the profite of the whole people, that not onelyonly in cities, but also in parishes the Presbyters should hauehave power giuen them to preach. And if by any infirmitie the Presbyter were hindered, so that he could not preach by himselfe, that then the Deacon should read some homily of the Fathers.

To conclude, it seemeth strange to me, that they, who out of the (x)(x)Ex Chrysost. in 1. Tim. 3. & Hieron. ad Euag.1 Tim 3Fathers would proue the Presbyters to be equall to the BB. in power of order, as indeed they are, excepting the power of ordination, (for as Ierome (y)(y)Adeuagr.saith, excepting ordination, what doth a Bishop that a Presbyter may not doe,) equall I say in the ministerie of the word and Sacraments, should denie they were Ministers; or that to preach or to administer the Sacraments did not belong to them by reason of their office. Ambrose (z)(z)in 1. Tim. 3.1 Tim 3saith of a Presbyter and Bishop there is one order, vterque enim sacerdos est, for either of them is a Priest.

There remaine the lawes and discipline peculiar to Presbyters as being of the sacred ministerie: As for example, that Presbyters and Deacons should not be chosen ex plebe out p. 176of the people or laitie but (a)(a)Epist. Concil. Illyrici. apud Theodor. li. 4. c. 9.foreign out of the sacred order or Clergie. That as in the Counsell of Nice it was attempted, (b)(b)Socrati. li. c. 11.so in some others concluded, (c)(c)Con. Const. in Trullo. c. 3.that Presbyters and Deacons should lead a single life; that he which had married a widow, or was the husband of a second wife, might not be a Presbyter. That they might not take vponupon them worldly busines, not so much as (d)(d)Cyprian. li. 1. Epist. 9.Gardianship; that they might not (e)(e)Conc. Antioch. c. 3. Nicen. c. 15. Arelat. 2. c. 15. Laodic. c. 24.remoue from citie to citie, or from one Church to another, without the leaue of the Bishop; that they might not goe into a Tauerne, and such like.

It is therefore most euident, that howsoeuer the Bishops were called the Doctors, yet the Presbyteri also were Ministers. Neither can any one instance be giuen of a Presbyter either in, or before or after Ambrose his time, who was not a Minister. For howsoeuer T. C. affirmeth, that this Eldership of theirs continued in the Church diuerse hundred yeares after Ambrose his time (which doth not well agree with his exposition or reading of Ambrose) yet being chalenged by D. Whitgift (f)(f)D. Whit. 653.to shew any one testimonie, and auouching that he could not produce any one, he (g)(g)T.C. l. 2. part. 2. pag. 68. in med. § Sect. 6. The 3. thatanciēt Ministers called Seniores were wont to assist the B.answereth thus: The next I leaue to the Readers iudgement.

For the third: there was great necessitie that the Bishops in the primitiue Church, when they had neither the assistāce of the Magistrate, nor direction of Ecclesiasticall lawes, should vse the Councell and assistance of wise and learned men. For which cause, Cyprian, (h)(h)Lib. 2. Epist. 5. &. l. 3. Epist. 10. &. 19. & 22to auoid both ouersights in himselfe and offence in others, resolued to doe nothing of moment without the common councell, and aduise of his Clergie, and for the same cause was Chrysostome (i)(i)Synod. contr. Chrysost. iur. gra… corom. 556.accused foreign that without the Presbytery and without the consent of his Clergie he made ordinations.

And that Presbyters were wont to heare causes, and to assist the B. it appeareth by the testimonies, first of Ignatius (k)(k)ad Trall.who calleth the Presbytery the foreign, or consistorie of God, a band of Apostles, and the Presbyters the Councellers, and Coassessors of the Bishops. 2. of Tertullian, (l)(l)Apolog. c. 39.president probati p. 177qui que seniores the approued Seniors be praesident.(k)(k)Apolog. c. 39. Thirdly of Clement (m)(m)Clem: epist. 1: ad Iacob.in his epistle to Iames, translated by Rufinus, & cited by Gratian, if any of the brethren hauehave Saints let them not be judged by secular Iudges, sed apud Presbyteros Ecclesiae quicquid illud est dirimatur, (n)(n)de 7. ord: eccl: dist. 95 c. 8.but before the Presbyters of the church let the cause be decided, & to their determination let the parties stand. Fourthly of Ierome, Presbyters, saith hee (meaning ministers whom he also calleth Preists, and attributeth to them the ministery of the worde and Sacraments) from the beginning were appointed Iudges of causes, &c.

And to the same purpose the Authors of the centuries (o)(o)Centur. 4 7. pa. 490. § Sect. 7. The 4. that the Seniors aduise was growne out of vse in Ambrose his time.testifie, that the Presbyters besides that they taught the people, did also compound suites and controuersies.

Now that their aduise was much neglected, and themselues but too much dejected by the Byshops in Ambrose his time, appeareth not onelyonly by his, but also by Ieromes (p)(p)Hier. de 7. ordin. eccl: c. 7, & ad Nepotianumcomplaint.

Likewise, by diuers Canons in the fourth councell of Carthage, (q)(q)Conc. Carthag. 4.held about the yeare 401 wherein it was decreed, (r)(r)Can: 22.that the Bishop without the assemblie of his clergie, should not ordaine clerkes: & that in the (s)(s)Can: 3.ordination of a presbyter, the Presbyters also, which be present, should with the Bishop impose their hands: that the B: (t)(t)Can. 23.should not determine any mans cause, but in the presence of his Clergy: that he (u)(u)C: 32.might not alienate or sell the goods or possessions of the Church, without the consent of his clergie: that the Bishop (w)(w)C: 34. & 35.though in the Church, and in the assembly of the presbyters, ought to sit in an higher place, yet priuatly he should vse the presbyters as his Colleagues, and sitting himselfe, should not suffer a presbyter to stand: that (x)(x)C: 37 & 39.the Deacons should acknowledge themselues to be Ministers to the presbyters, as well as to the Bishops; & that if the presbyters badde them, they might sit in their presence, which otherwise they might not (y)(y)Con: Nic. c. 18.doe.

All these things considered, together with that which before hath bene alledged, to proue that there were neuer any Lay-Elders, doe necessarily euince, that there is no reason to imagine, if Doctorum signifie Doctors or Teachers, p. 128Lay-Elders to be meant by Seniors in this place.

And so much of the exposition of this place, according to the former sense of the word Doctorum, signifying Doctors: which, with my aduersaries consent, I doe much preferre before the other, and therefore can be very well content to giuegive in the latter.

§ Sect. 8. Though doctorum should signifie learned, yet this place maketh not for Lay-Elders.Notwithstanding, because some perhaps will vnderstand the word Doctorum, as being a common title both to Bishops and Presbyters, signifying learned, and will therefore imagine that the Elders whose counsell was neglected by them, were Idiotae or Lay-men: for their sakes therefore, I will briefly shew, that though this interpretation be admitted, yet there is no necessitie that Seniors should signifie Lay-Elders:Ad pag. 41. for Doctorum, being according to this interpretation, a common title both to Bishops and Presbyters, Ambrose his meaning may be conceiued to be this, that the assistance and councell of ancient Ministers, meant by Seniors, who were wont to assist the Bishop, was growne out of vse, either by their owne negligēce, or the Bishops pride. Whereunto, after much froath of idle words, he replyeth, First,Ad pag. 42. that the Councell of Ministers was not growne out of vse in Ambrose his time: and this he indeuoureth to proue by fiue testimonies, First of Ierome (a)(a)Gen. in Tit. 1.Titus 1saying that the Churches at the first were gouerned communi presbyterorum consilio, by the common Councell of Presbyters: Which testimonie maketh against him: for Ierome speaketh of such Presbyters as Paul speaketh of, who were Ministers, and are there called Bishops. If therefore the Church was at the first gouerned by common councell of Ministers, and if Ambrose complaine that their councell in his time was neglected, which at the first had beene vsed, and whereby the Church had beene gouerned: who seeth not, that it was the neglect of the Ministers aduise wherof Ambrose complaineth: 2. yea but Ierome (b)(b)Ierom. in Esa. 3.Isa 3saith, we also in the Church hauehave senatum nostrum …tum Presbyterorum, our senate a company of Presbyters: which testimonie is wont to be alleaged, to proue that in Ieromes time there was a Presbyterie of Lay-Elders. But here my aduersarie presupposing that Lay-Elders were p. 179growne out of vse, in Ambrose his time, (whom T: C: supposeth to hauehave continued diuers hundred yeares after Ambrose bringeth it to proue, that in Ieromes time, who was almost as ancient as Ambrose, there was a Senate of Ministers, which no man doubteth of. For else-where he saith (c)(c)Ad Rusticū 16. q. 1. c. 7. Ecclesia.the Church hath a Senate, a companie of Presbyters, without whose Counsell, the Monkes may doe nothing. And not only in Ieromes time the Church had, but in all Ages since, euen to this day, it hath such a Senate, which in latter times hath called Capitulum, the chapter. Howbeit, both in Ambrose his time, and since, the aduise, and assistance thereof, notwithstanding the Decree of the fourth counsell of Carthage, hath beene, though in some things euē to this day vsed, yet in the most things, and for the most part neglected.

His third testimony, (which hee saith is plaine enough) of the saide Ierome, (d)(d)Dist 95. c. 6. ex. lib. de 7. gradib. Eccl.cited in the canon Law, is also plaine against him. For hauing saide as euen now I alledged him, that the presbyters from the beginning had bene appointed to heare and iudge causes, as the Bishops assistants, hee prooueth it, because they also in the scriptures are called Bishops, howsoeuer now the Bishops enuied them that dignitie, &c.(e)(e)Conc. Carth. 4. c. 23.

His 4. testimonie is, the 23. canon of the councell of Carthage (which euen now I cited) which maketh against him, rather then for him. For seeing good lawes arise from bad manners, it is to bee imagined, that according to the complaint of Ambrose and Ierome, who were somewhat before this councell, the presence of the Clergie, and (f)(f)Though the Clergie were to be present, yet none but Presbyters were the Bishops coassessors: for Deacōs might not sit amōg Presbyters, C. Nic. c. 18 Hier. ad Euagr. presbyteri sedeni, Diaconi stant.assistance of the presbyters was neglected: and that this neglect gaue occasion to the making of that canon.

His. 5. testimonie is of D. Bilson, (though hee name also another learned mā, only to abuse him.) Howbeit (g)(g)Chap. 11.160.D. Bilson vnderstandeth Ambrose, as cōplaining of the Bishops of his time, who whiles they would seeme to rule alone, had excluded, or neglected the aid & coūsell of their bretheren of the Clergie, who were wont to aduise and assist them, as well in Doctrine as in Discipline.

And whereas in the second place he replieth, that slothfulnesse and pride must needs be referred to the same persons, and not slothfulnes to presbyters,§ Sect. 9. Ad pag: 43. Whether slothfulnes & pride must necessarily be referred to the same subject Doctorum: signifying Learned: and being a common title both to BB. and Presbyters. and pride to BB: I answeare, that if Doctorum be a common title to both (as it is, if it signifie learned) and if the slothfulnes of the presbyters, rather then of the BB. be as like almost to be the cause why their assistance grew out of vse, as the pride of the BB: then is there no necessitie that slothfulnesse and pride should both be attributed to the Bishops: but rather it is very likely, that slouthfulnes is imputed to presbyters, and pride to the Bishops.

But both the parts of the Antecedent is true, therefore the consequent.

But let vsus heare his Reasons.

The first, If Ambrose had meant to ascribe slouthfulnes, to the Seniors, hee would hauehave saide, that their assistance grew out of vse, either by their owne slothfulnes, or rather by the pryde of the BB.

The second: he would hauehave said not Doctorum, but Ipforum desidiâm , which reason is the latine of the first, and the first the english of this: Such iudgment heere is shewed in distinguishing of arguments. But who knoweth not, that the same sentence may very manie wayes bee varied, in respect of the words, the same sence remaining? so that this exception might be made against any exposition almost. If I should say:

As in Christs Colledge, so in some others, Elections were wont to bee caryed by the voyces of the iuniors, as well as the Seniors, which thing is now grown out of vse, by what meanes I know not, vnlesse perhaps, by the remissenes of the fellowes, or rather arrogancie whiles they would rule alone, I might not vnfitly so speake, ascribing remissnes to the iunior fellowes, and arrogancie to the Seniors.

His third and fourth reasons are impertinent, vnderstanding the word Doctorum of Doctors, a title in those times, peculiar to Bishops, & not of learned, which is common to both. For though the speciall title of Doctors according to the former interpretation, which is … better, be opposed to p. 181of the Seniors or presbyters, who were not called Doctors; yet to a common title, neither of the specials, to which it is common, are to be opposed, but both to be subiected.

The 5. that Ambrose chargeth both slothfulnes and pride vponupon the same persons, called Doctors, &c. But this should hauehave bene prooued and not begged: especially, seeing I disprooue it in the reason following.

For that which he pratteleth of amplifying the fault, by rising from the lesse to the greater, hath not so much as a shew of a good reason, to dsproue my exposition; seeing of the 2. causes, Ambrose seemeth to make the slothfulnesse of the learned, that is, the Presbyters, not so principall as the pride of the learned, that is to say, the BB. vnles perhaps saith he, by the slothfulnes of the presbyters, or rather pride of the BB.

Lastly, saith he, If we make diuers sorts of teachers (he should hauehave said learned) Ambrose his speech were defectiue, and somewhat must be added, as either by the slothfulnes of the teachers, or rather pride of the Bishops, or some of them.

I answere, if the word Learned be vsed, being a title common, both to the Seniors and the Doctors, there needs no addition to make the sentence perfect; but a distinct application of the common title to the speciall sorts, according to their seuerall faultes, by which they are to be distinguished; Slothfulnesse beeing the fault of the one, and pride of the other, as before you heard, in the example of fellowes.

But why should I spend time in answering such slieght Objections?§ Sect. 10. The reasons why I reject their inferēce, first dissembled by the refuter, and then depraued. the which notwithstanding, seeme of such weight with him, that hee wondereth, that all these worthie reasons considered, I would vnderstand Doctorum, signifying learned, as a common title, both to the Bishops and Seniors, and that saith hee, as if hee were another Pythagoras, vponupon his bareword, I say his bare word; for as yet he hath not vouchsafed vsus one piece of a Reason.

This is one of the refuters poore shifts, to make himselfe wrangling worke: To take an Assertion of mine, and hauing seuered it from the Reasons wherewith it was guarded, to cauill with mee, as if without alledging a Reason, I would (like an other Pythagoras) bee belieued vppon my p. 182bare word. Whereas in truth, both heere and in other places, where I am the Answerer, I render more reasons then were needfull, were it not, that I sought to satisfie, in hope that men will at the length be satisfied with reason.

As for example, this place of Ambrose is objected, as giuing testimonie to Lay-Elders.

I answere there is no necessitie, this place should so bee vnderstood. Here might I hauehave rested, and put the opponents to inforce this testimonie, which by them is barely propounded. But being desirous to giuegive satisfaction, I vrge it for them thus:

Ambrose saith, there were Seniors in the primitiue Church, whose councell was now neglected, therefore he giueth testimonie to Lay-Elders. I denie the consequence, giuing a reason, because those Seniors were of the Clergie and not of the Laitie.

Against this answere I make them replie thus; The Seniors aduise was neglected by the learned: Therfore themselues were such as were not learned, or of the Clergie.

To this I answere, that if the word Doctorum signifie learned, Notwithstanding this place may be vnderstood of the Seniors of the clergie onelyonly: If wee conceiue Doctorū signifying learned, as a common title, both to the BB: & Seniors, and of this answeare I giuegive a reason by explaning this testimony of Ambrose.

And whereas I did foresee that it would be objected that Doctorum was to be vnderstood either of pastors of parishes alone, according to the conceite of the new Disciplinarians, or of BB. a lone according to the rest: I therfore sought to preuent this obiection in those words, for if you expound Doctorum for pastors, &c. Wherein a sufficient reason is concluded, holding strongly against the parish B. & his Elders. And not contented with all this, in desire to giuegive satisfaction, I rendred the true causes besides arrogancy of BB. which I knewe was presupposed, why the assistance of the ancient ministers, called Seniors, was growne out of vse: and yet forsooth, like another Pythagoras ▪ I looke that my bare word should be credited without reason.

p. 283Yea, but saith hee, that which is added in steed of a Reason, hath no more reason in it, but his owne blindnes, saying, that I cannot see how, &c.

But is it not strange, that hee, who is so sharpe sighted to finde out Syllogismes where none were intended, could see no reason heere?

Or shall we not thinke, that he chose rather like a shifting sophister, to take aduātage of that modest phrase, thē to encoūter with the reason it selfe, which may thus be cōcluded.

That which is a matter of great labour and paines, to the vndertaker, and ease to the relinquisher, is not to be ascribed to slothfulnes in him that taketh it vponupon him, but rather in them who are eased.

But the taking of the whole burden, and cumbersome imployment of hearing suites, and managing all causes Ecclesiasticall, vponupon the BB: is a matter of great labour and paines to them, and ease to the Seniors.

Therefore the Bishops, vnderaking the whole burden, and cumbersome imployment of hearing suites, and managing all causes Ecclesiasticall, is not to be ascribed to slothfulnes in them, but rather to the Seniors.

One of these premisses should hauehave bene denyed,§ Sect. 11. His encountring with the conclusion. and the denyall made good, if hee had bene able: but in steed hereof he encountereth with the conclusion, labouring, as we say, clauum, clauo pellere, and vndertaking to make me see, (if I will not shut mine eyes,) the contradictory of that conclusion to be true, which notwithstanding cannot be false the premisses being true.

And first, he denyeth that Ambrose spake by guesse, as I say, but certaienly and vponupon knowledge; when Ambrose his expresse words bee these, Quod qua negligentia obsoleuerit nescio, nisi forte, &c: which by what negligence it is growne out of vse I know not, Ad pag. 44.vnlesse perhaps by the slouthfulnes, &c. 2. He saith, it might be a matter of slothfulnes, in the BB: to suffer the seniors to neglect their duties. But not to their own so great trouble, will M, D. say, we might belieue him, if wee saw not pride driue men to vndertake, more then they either need to be charged with, or are able to weeld.

p. 184Then is it not their slothfulnes belike, that caused them to take the whole burden vponupon themselues, but their pride, which made them winke at the seniors slothfulnes, as giuing way to their owne ambition.

Thirdly, he saith, the Bishops might prouide for their owne ease, by putting off the burthen to their Chancellors, Commissaries, Officialls,Whether the BB. did put off the burden to their Chancellours, &c. &c: & therefore it might be imputed to them as a matter of sloth or idlenesse, & pride to: and so the word Doctorum, rightly expounded, for Pastors of Parishes alone, and not to Diocesan Bishops. As thogh their Parish-Bishops were more likely to hauehave had Chauncellours, &c: then Diocesan BB: But I answere, 1. the question is not what they might hauehave done, but what they did.

Now it is euident, that in Ambrose his time, and a good while after, till the Presbyteries were in a manner whollie neglected, the Bishops had not ordinary vicars, or chancellors, or ordinary Commissaries, which were not of the Clergie; But what they did without the aduise of their Seniors, they performed ordinarily in their owne persons, or else extraordinarily delegated the same to some of speciall trust. In some cases, it is euident, that both then, and long after, they vsed the assistance of their Presbyterie, as in the iudgement of Heresie, or for deposing of a clergie man, &c.

Siricius the B. of Rome, in an Epistle (a)(a)Ambros: epist: 80.to Ambrose, denouncing Iouinian, Auxentius, &c. for heretickes, sheweth, that for their triall, his whole presbyterie had beene assembled; and saith, that by the common consent of his whole clergie, they were condemned for heretickes.

The 4. councell of Carthage, (b)(b)Cap. 23.as you heard, ordained that the Bishop should heare mens causes in the presence of his clergie. The 2. councel of Towers decreed (c)(c)Turon. 2. c. 7.that a Bishop might not depose an Archpresbyter, without the counsell of all his compresbyters: But whom negligence casteth out, let him with the counsell of the presbyters be remoued. The councell of Carthage (d)(d)Cō. Cart. graec: c. 20. siue Carth: 3. c. 8.appointed, that in the cause of a Presbyter, sixe, and of a Deacon, three Bishops should be joyned with their own Bishop, because as the coūcell of Ciuill (e)(e)cō: hispal: 2. c. 6.determined, one Bishop may to Priests, and ministers, that is, Presbyters & Deacons. p. 185giuegive their honour, but one alone may not take it from them: but in the cause of inferiour Clergie men foreign the Bishop alone of the place shall heare and determine it, viz. in the presence of his Clergie, according to the aforesaid (f)(f)Conc. Carth. 4 c. 23.Canon of the fourth Councell of Carthage.

But as in some cases they vsed the counsell of the Presbyteri; so in others they did for the most part vndergoe the whole burthen themselues. For the proofe whereof, the examples of Ambrose and Augustine may suffice. For Ambrose was so occupied in hearing and determining mens causes, that he had so little time left him for his corporall repast, or spirituall studies; that Augustine (g)(g)August. Confess. lib. 6. c. 3.could neuer finde him at leisure to breake his minde vntounto him. And Augustine (h)(h)August. Epist. 110. Non permittor ad quod volo vacare ante meridiem▪ post meridiem occupationibus hominum teneor.was so encombred with hearing of causes, that scarcely he could hauehave the forenoone for his studies, the afternoone being wholly taken vp with other mens busines: neither could he, when the Councels of Numidia and Carthage had imposed a taske vponupon him, and when his people had promised to forbeare him for fiue dayes, obtaine so much breathing time from their affaires. But when hee was olde, and was desirous to spend the rest of his time in writing, and in the studie of the scriptures, he nominated Eradius to be his successor; in most earnest manner requiring, and charging the people, that they would suffer him to put off the burden of those imployments to him. Possidonius (i)(i)Possid. in vita August. c. 19.giueth him this testimonie, that he heard mens causes diligently, sometimes to the hower of repast, sometimes fasting the whole day: but alwaies himselfe had the cognisance of them, and determined them.

The Emperour Iustinian (k)(k)Constit. Nouell. 123. c. 21.prouided by law, that in Ecclesiasticall causes ciuill iudges should hauehave nothing to doe: sed sanctissimus Episcopus secundum sacras regulas causae finem imponat, but let the holy Bishop according to the Sacred Canons determine the cause.

As for ordinarie Vicars, Chancellors or Commissaries which were Lay-men, in those times the Bishops had none: for not so much as the steward of the Church might be a Lay-man: whereupon Gregorie (l)(l)Lib. 7. Epist. 66.writing to Ianuarius a p. 186Bishop, chargeth him to take heed, that Ecclesiasticall matters be not committed to secular men, but to some approued of the Clergie. And the second Councell of Ciuil, penned as it seemeth by Isidor who was president thereof, pronounceth (m)(m)Conc. hispal. 2. c. 9.it an vnseemely thing Laicum esse vicarium Episcopi, & seculares in ecclesia iudicare, that a Lay-mā should be the Bishops Vicar, & that secular men should iudge in the Church: for in one and the same officer there must not be different profession. Which hauing confirmed out of Deuteronomie, it inferreth: wherefore it behoueth vsus to obey Gods booke and the preceps of the holy Fathers, ordaining that they who shalbe associated to Bishops in Church-gouernement, may not differ neither in profession nor habit.

Notwithstanding that they extraordinarily committed to others or delegated causes to be heard appeareth by the aforesaid example of Augustine. But more clearely by the practise of Siluanus a godly Bishop of Troas, not long after Ambrose his time: who (n)(n)Socrat. lib. 7. c. 37. foreign, &c.perceiuing that they of the Clergie made gaine of the contentions of them who came to be iudged, he would not at any time appoint a iudge of the Clergie, but himselfe receiuing the petitions of Suiters would make choise of some faithful man or other of the laitie, whom he knew to be a louer of iustice, and to him he would commit the hearing of the cause: and for this cause Socrates saith he was greatly renowmed. Out of which examples we may note that causes were wont to be brought to the Bishop, that he heard them himselfe if he had leisure: otherwise, that he committed the hearing of the cause to some of his Clergie: but yet so, as if he saw cause, he might make choise of some other, whom he durst better trust.

Secondly, I answere, that the reason which I vsed, concludeth most strongly, against the refuters exposition, who by Doctorum will needs vnderstand parish Bishops. Who if they should take the whole burden vponupon them of Church-gouernement, and deciding causes Ecclesiasticall, without the aide or assistance of the Elders, could not therefore be accused of idlenes: for I hope the refuter will not say, that they also had Chancellers or Comissaries vnderunder them to whom p. 187they might put off those cumbersome imployments.§ Sect. 12. Of Deanes and Chapters and Cathedrall Churches. That there were Cathedrall Churches in Ambrose his time.

It remaineth now, that I should proceed to the causes, which I rendred why the Councell of the Seniors in Ambrose his time was so much neglected by Bishops. But that my aduersary, after his accustomed maner, will needs take occasion to shew his owne ignorance, by taking vp a speech which as he saith, I let drop by the way, concerning Deanes and Chapters of our Cathedrall Churches, as being a resemblance or remainder of the Presbyteries which were in the Primitiue Church. For such is his reading, that he doubteth not to deny, that in Ambrose his times there were any Cathedrall Churches, or that our Deanes and Chapters are so much as resemblances of the Presbyteries of those times.

For Cathedrall Churches, you are to vnderstand, that although in eueryevery Diocesse there were many parish churches, both in country and citie, yet there was one chiefe church in the citie, which was the Bishops Cathedra or seat, wherein the Bishop most vsually performed the duties of the Episcopall and pastorall function, whereunto a peculiar Clergie belonged, consisting of Presbyters, Deacons, and other inferiour orders, and whereto Episcopium the Bishops house was neare adioyning. This church in those times was called sometimes Cathedra sc. Episcopi, as Concil. Carthag. (o)(o)Conc. Carth. 5. c. 5.where it was decreed that no Bishop, relicta cathedra, leauing his Cathedrall Church, should remoue his seate or See, to any church in his Diocesse, the Greeke (p)(p)Carthag. graec. c. 72.hath foreign. And likewise BB: are forbidden (q)(q)Carthag. c. 122. siue Affric. c. 88. Item. Carthag. graec. c. 54. siue Affric. c. 20. Conc. Mileuit. c. 24. & 25.to neglect any of those places which belōg foreign sometimes foreign or Matrix, & Matrix Cathedra (r)(r)Conc. Carth. 3. c. 46. Carth. gr. c. 124. Affric. c. 90.as Conc. Carth. 3. c. 46. Episcopus qui matricom tenet. Conc. Carth. graec. c. 24 siue Affric. c. 90. foreign. If in the mother Churches, that is to say the Cathedrall the Bishop shalbe negligent, &c: sometimes (s)(s)Conc. Aurelian. 3. c. 18. Conc. Neocaesar. c. 13.Ciuitatensis ecclesia, sometimes foreign as in the Councell of Neocaessaria.

Such a Church was that in Millaine, whereunto Ambrose his house adioyned: for that (t)(t)Theodoret. l. 5 c. 18.foreign that house of salutation where Ambrose sate, when Theodosius came to p. 188him to be absolued, was not, as T. C. imagined, Ambrose his owne house before he was Bishop: for it was intra septa Ecclesiae within the bounds of the Church, & Paulinus (u)(u)Paulin. in vita Ambr. nihil sibi quod hic suum diceret, derelinquens.testifieth, that Ambrose gaue away all when he was made Bishop, and left himselfe nothing which here he might call his owne. In that Church Ambrose vsually preached, to that Church the Emperour himselfe resorted, In the chancell whereof, when Theodosius the Emperour would hauehave remained to receiue the communion, Ambrose (x)(x)Theod. lib. 5 c 18.sent him word by his Archdeacon, that that place was peculiar to the clergie, which belonged to this Church, consisting of the Arch-Presbyter and the other Presbyters, of the Archdeacon and other Deacons, and other inferior orders of the Clergie. For albeit the name Decanus was not perhaps as yet in vse, yet the office was, and the Deane signified by other names. For sometimes he was called foreign the chiefe or ruler of the Presbyters, euen as Ambrose his Archdeacon, in the place euen now cited, is called foreign Such a one was Chrysostome, (y)(y)Theodor. l. 3. c. 19. foreign.in Antioch a long time. (z)(z)Lib. 4. c. 18.Eulogius at Edessa: sometimes foreign so Peter (a)(a)foreign.was the Protopresbyter in the Church at Alexandria. And Arsacius, (b)(b)Socrat. lib. 6. c. 9. Iure gaecorum. in synod. Contr. Chrysost. pag. 557.who succeeded Chrysostome in the Bishopricke of Constantinople, the Protopresbyter there. In latine most vsually Archipresbyter; as (c)(c)Hist. tripart. li. 10. c. 10.histor. tripat. lib. 10. c. 10. and in the fourth Councell of Carthage: (d)(d)Conc. Carth. 4. c. 17where it was decreed that the Bishop should take care of widowes, Orphans & strangers, not by himselfe but by his Archpresbyter, or by his Archdeacon. Ierome (e)(e)Ad Rustic. Monach. tom. 1. pag. 46.shewing that in each societie there is some one ruler, saith, singuli Ecclesiarum Episcopi, singuli Archipresbyteri, singuli Archdiaconi the Churches hauehave each of them one Bishop, one Archpresbyter, on Archdeacon. In processe of time they were called decani. Archipresbyteri (f)(f)Decret. Gregor. li. 1. tit. 23. deoffic Arch. c. 7.a pluribus decani nuncupantur, Archpresbyters of the most are called Deanes. Neither were there onelyonly Archpresbyters and Deanes of Cathedrall Churches which were called (g)(g)Duaren. de sacr. Eccles. minist. & benef. lib. 1 c. 8.Archipresbyteri vrbani, p. 189& ciuitatenses, of whom all these former testimonies are to be vnderstood; but also rurall Deanes, called sometimes Archipresbyteri decani, as in the Councell (h)(h)Con…. Turonens. 2. c. 20.of Towers, and sometimes decani firsti. Archipresbyteri parochiarum in the Councell of (i)(i)Concil. Agath. c. 15.12. q 2. c. 32. …ist. 50. c. 64.Agatha.

The chapter was wont to be called Presbyterium. Placuit Presbyterium contrahi we thought good the Presbyterie should be gathered together saith Cornelius (k)(k)Cypr. lib. 3. Epist. 11.to Cyprian. And Syricius (l)(l)Ambros. Epist 80.the Bishop of R…me in an Epistle to Ambrose, facto Presbyterio, the Presbyterie being assembled, somtimes (m)(m)Hier. in Esai. 3.Isa 3se…atus, caetus Presbyterorum, the senate, or assembly of Presbyters.

The Presbyters or Seniors themselues were called sometimes (n)(n)Conc. Neocaesar. c. 13.foreign, (o)(o)Conc. Agath. c. 22.ciuitatenses Presbyteri the Presbyters of the citie, seniores (p)(p)Tertull. Apol. c. 39.by Tertullian and Ambrose, (q)(q)Ambr. in 1. Tim. 5.1.1 Tim 5:1in the place alleaged. The ancient Councell of Ancyra hauing pronounced it vnlawfull for the Chorepiscopi or countrey Bishops to ordaine Presbyters or Deacons, addeth (r)(r)Conc. Ancyr. c. 13.foreign, neither yet is it lawfull for the Presbyters of the citie: whereby it may in part appeare, what was the estimation of the Presbyters of the citie in comparison of the countrie Bishops.

But as the Archipresbyteri in latter times were called decani, so these Presbyters of the citie were in processe of time called Canonici & prebendarij and the company of them which had beene called Presbyterium, was termed capitulum in english Chapter. Caluin (s)(s)Instit. li. 4. c. 5.saith Presbyteri vrbani versi sunt in canonicos the Presbyters of the citie are turned into Canons or prebendaries. And it is to be noted saith Duarenus, that in eueryevery citie there was a certaine College (t)(t)De sacr. Eccle. minist. ac. benef. li. 1. c. 7.of these Presbyters which the Bishop gouerned,§ 16. such as is at this day canonicorum collegium the college of Canons who seeme to hauehave succeeded into their place: and this companie of Presbyters Ierome calleth the senate of the church.

By all which it is more then euident, that as in the ancient times they had Cathedrall churches as well as we, and those endowed with great reuenewes, as it is easie to proue: so the Deanes and chapters of our Cathedrall Churches are p. 190the remainder of their Presbyteries, our Deanes being those who were called Archpresbyters, our Prebendaries, those which were called Presbyteri vrbani, our chapters those which they called Presbyteries.

Neither doth that hinder which our refuter obiecteth, that our BB: hauehave not the like assistance of the Deane and chapter that the ancient BB: had of their Presbyteries. For Ambrose complaineth, that euen in his time their counsell was neglected. And yet in these times, as the Bishop may vse their aduise if he please, so in some cases their assistance is necessarily required, the acts of the Bishop being void without their consent. Besides sede vacante, in the vacancy of the See, the custodie of the Bishopricke & Episcopall rights, as also the election of the new Bishop, is after a sort referred to them.Ad pag. 46. And as in times past, so now, the placing and displacing of the Presbyters of the citie, whom we call Prebendaries, appertaineth to the BB: a few Churches onelyonly among vsus excepted. And to conclude, as Deanes and Chapters with vsus are in a maner peculiar to Cathedrall Churches, the seats of Bishops (some collegiate Churches excepted:) so were the Presbyteries in the primitiue Church. Insomuch that our new sect of disciplinarians might as well say, there was in old time, & now should be, a Deane & chapter, as a Presbyterie in eueryevery parish. If therefore they will sue for reformation according to the precedent of the primitiue Churches, let them seeke and sue, that the Bishops may vse the counsell and assistance of the Presbyterie of the citie, which we call the Deane and Chapter, and they may hope to preuaile, if none of the reasons why their assistance is forborne be sufficient, which now come to be examined.

§ Sect. 14. The reasons why the Councell of Seniors was neglected.Serm. Sect. 8. pag. 16. But howsoeuer Ambrose knew not what to say of this matter, otherwise then by coniecture, &c: to the end of the first point, pag. 17.

p. 191These reasons I added by way of surplusage or aduantage,foreign. to giuegive satisfaction if it might be. But nothing will satisfie them, who set themselues to cauill: for whereas I said, I doubt not but the true causes &c: the refuter depraueth my speech, as if the word I, had beene vttered with an immodest Emphasis: when as I meant no more by that speech, then when we say, proculdubio, or dubium non est: which kind of speech my aduersarie (me thinkes) should not so greatly mislike, sithens their Lay-Elders, which hauehave beene vrged with such heat, hauehave no better warrant then dubium non est, satis opinor, constat, probabile est, as you shall heare, when we come to their proofes. They may say confidently, there were Lay-Elders in the time of the Apostles, yea from the time of Moses vntill Christ, and that after the example of the Iewes (who indeed neuer had such Presbyteries) they are to be erected in eueryevery parish: and yet hauehave no better warrant for these things, then their owne coniectures. They may take vponupon them to auow without reason, that to hauehave beene done in the Apostles times, whereunto neither scripture nor Father giueth testimonie: and in me it is great immodestie to affirme that, which but one of the Fathers seemed to doubt of, though I alleage sufficient reason of my affirmation. For in the first three hundred yeares after Christ, when Christians neither had frequent Synodes to determine doubts, nor Synodall constitutions to direct the Bishops, nor the authoritie of the Christian Magistrate to rectifie what was amisse in the gouernement of the Church, there was great necessitie that the Bishop should vse the aduise and counsell of other wise and learned men: otherwise, his will would hauehave seemed to stand for a law, and his gouernement would hauehave beene subiect to ouersight in himselfe, to remedilesse wrong towards the clergie and people, and to the obloquy and scandall of all. But when as prouinciall Synodes were frequently **viz: Twice a yeare. Conc. Nic. c. 5. Antioch. c. 20. Chal. ced. c. 19.assembled to determine doubts, to right the causes of them that were wronged, to prescribe so many Ca…ons and constitutions, as to the BB: assembling in Councell seemed sufficient for their direction, whē the authoritie p. 192of the christian Magistrate was helpefull to the Church; then we may easily conceiue, that as the Councell and assistance of the Presbyterie was not so needfull, so both to the Presbyters desiring their ease and Scholasticall quietnesse, and also to the Bishops desiring to rule alone, it would seeme needlesse: which reason I am well content it shall be put into the equall balance of the Readers iudgement, against the cauills of the refuter,Pag. 46.47.48. wherewith he hath blotted more then a whole leafe. It happened to the Presbyteries as after it did to the prouinciall Synodes. For when by experience it was foūd to be very troublesome & chargeable to the BB: hurtfull to their churches, tedious to suiters by reason of multitude of causes referred to Synodal audience, that al the BB: in eueryevery coūtry should twice eueryevery yeare for a long time be absent from their churches, to be present at Synodes; it was decreed, both by the Emperours and BB, that those causes wherewith prouinciall Synodes had vsually bene troubled, should be referred to the audience and decisiō of the Archbishop or Metropolitan. Euen so, when it was found troublesome and tedious to the Presbyters, and hurtfull to the Church, that their time which might better be spent in studie of Diuinitie, to furnish them for the publike Ministery, should be taken vp in hearing brabbles and quarrels, and also their assistance seemed not needfull to the Bishops for the causes aforesaid; it is not to be maruelled, that their assistance grew out of vse. For whereas the refuter obiecteth, and is the onelyonly thing worth the mentioning which he obiecteth, that the Presbyteries continued in Ambroses time, and long after: I answere, that they continue to this day. But as their assistance now in matters of gouernement is not much vsed, so before Ambrose his time it began to be neglected.

And thus much concerning the testimonie of Ambrose: which hauing cleared as well as that, 1. Tim. 5.17. being the onelyonly places of moment, which vse to be produced in this cause, I might safely conclude from all the premisses, that therfore there were no Lay-Elders in the primitiue Church: From whence, besides the maine conclusion, that therefore p. 193the primitiue Church was gouerned by Diocesan Bishops,Two conclusions inferred vponupon the disp…oofe of Lay-Elders. the two particular assertions concluding against our new sect of disciplinarians will necessarily follow. The first, that therefore there were no parishionall Presbyteries: the second that therefore parish Bishops or pastors were subiect to the Diocesan Bishops.

Against the former,Chap. 10.155. he obiecteth a speech of D. Bilson affirming that eueryevery Church in the Apostles times had many Prophets Pastors and Teachers, which, as the refuter saith,Ad pag. 49. might make a Presbyterie. But the Churches D. Bilson speaketh of, were not in seuerall parishes, but as he saith in populous cities, such as that of Ephesus Act. 20: and those prouided, not for any one parish, but for the whole citie and countrey adioyning, that is to say, the Diocesse. For when my aduersarie shall produce any one pregnant testimonie that in such congregations, as we call parishes, there was a Presbyterie of Ministers, I will also grant, that there were no other but parish Bishops. In the meane time let the Reader hold this for a certaine and vndeniable truth, that there were no Presbyteries of Ministers, but onelyonly in cities and Cathedrall Churches, but hereof I shall hauehave occasion to speake in the second booke.

As touching the second conclusion, it followeth thus: the parish pastor had either a Presbyterie to assist him, or he was subiect to superiors, as namely the Diocesan and prouinciall Bishops, to ouerrule him, or else he ruled like a Pope; for a fourth thing cannot be named, before there were Christian Magistrates. But it is absurd to imagine, that in the primitiue Church they had an absolute popeling, who neither had assistants nor superiors, for that were to ascribe not onelyonly supreme, but also sole power to them: and it is as false, that in seuerall parishes there was a Presbyterie to assist him, therefore it remaineth that the parish Bishops were subiect to the authoritie of the Diocesan and prouinciall Bishops.

To the proposition he answereth two w…ies, first by retortion: that what I say of the parish Bishop his ruling as a Pope, may with more probabilitie be spoken of a Diocesan p. 194Bishop , which I hauehave answered before. For this is the second place where he laboureth out of my word… to proue our Diocesan Bishops to be popes, vsing this insultation in the margent. Sic tu beas ami…os? But though their parish Bishops, whom they make the supreme Ecclesiasticall officers, would be absolute popelings, if presbyteries were not adioyned to them, because they should hauehave not onelyonly Supreame, but also sole authoritie: yet it followeth not, that our Bishops, to whom neither supreme, nor sole authoritie belongeth, should he esteemed such.

Secondly he denieth the disfunction, alleaging that a fourth thing might be added concerning the chiefe authoritie of the people: Which, if it be added in the proposition, is with the rest to be denied in the assumption. For this brownisticall or rather Anabaptisticall conceit (for some of the Brownists disclaime it) that the Bishops in the primitiue Church were subiected to the people, as if the state of the Church had beene Democraticall or popular, is a dotage that was neuer dreamed of till of late, and therefore as it is most confidently to be denied, so it needed not to be inserted in the proposition.