The Opening of Heaven Gates — Arthur Dent

The Opening of Heaven Gates · Arthur Dent

A fruitfull Dialogue betweene Reaſon, and Religion touching Gods Predeſtination, and mans freewill &c.

Reaſon.

WHO made this world?

Religion.

God of his owne ſingular mercy, for the louelove that hee bare vntounto mankinde.

Reaſ.

Of what ſubſtance did God ere…e it?

Reli.

Truely of nothing, but by his …ly word.

Reaſ.

And is it euerlaſting, or ſhall it …ee hauehave an end?

Reli.

The ſcripture doth teſtifie, that ſhall bee deſtroied with fire from heaven, at ſuch time as the Lord hath appointed; Moreouer we▪ are informed by common experience, that it is by nat… ſabiect to diſſolution.

Reaſ.

I pray you what are we to think… of God that wonderfull workemaſter?

Reli.

Wee ought ſtedfaſtly to beleeue, th… hee is almighty, righteous in … thinges, and eternall.

That of nature he is indeuiſible, and yet conſiſting of three diſtinct perſons the Father, the Sonne and the ho… Ghoſt. This God is called God of incomprehenſtble wiſdome, according t… which he hath moſt wiſely foreſeene, and appointed all things. He is vnchange able, alwaies one, neuer paſſionate: … is the Lord of reueng, the God of Judgement, at whoſe breath the mountai… …oe ſhake: whoſe ſeat is the lofty Che… bines, whoſe foote-ſtoole is the earth, h… is a iealious God, ſtriking idslators, a… ſuch as derogate, from his honor, wi… terrible plagues, Hee is a conſuming …ire, the king of kings, the onelyonly Lord … all worlds, the beginning, the end, an… yet without beginning, and euerlaſting Hee is inuiſtble, though at one … …ant beholding all things, at wh… …ecke, the heauens are obedient, t… clouds dos gather themſelues together and the earth doth quiuer and tremble: This God rebuketh the windes, calmeth the ſeas, limiteth to eueryevery ſtarre his inſtuence, courſe and name: this God formed light, and darkeneſſe, ſendeth and calleth backe lightnings, thunders, tempeſtes, fearefull commets, bla…ing …ſtarrs, and all other wonderfull impreſſions of the ayrs; This is the God, that …ouldeth the huge earth in his hand hanging like a Globe, in the mideſt of the world, that fouldeth the heauens like a …crowle, that ſendeth the ſeaſonable ſpring-time, Summer, and Harneſt, Froſt, Could, Hunger, Famine, and …ſtil…nce: he it is that by a certaine in…uſed fertility, cauſeth trées, herbes, flowers, and eueryevery little graſſe to ſprout and …pring, to the behalfe of all liuing creatures. So that neither birdes of the … …e…ts of the …eld, nor the ſilly worme… … …he earth, doe want ſuſtenance: this is …at prouident God, that conta…neth the …welling ſe… within her ban…s, that or…reth that maruelous waterchange of …owing and ebbing w…s, that feedeth …e whales, and eueryevery …ing thing dwel…ng in the deepes this is that ſearcher of …ret…s: whome no place doth exclude whoſe preſence, no action, word, nor thought can eſcape. This is the good God, that created man according to his owne likeneſſe, made him Lord of the earth; And when he had plaied the rebe… againſt him, that recomforted him being throwne out of Paradice with the promiſe of the ſéed of the woman: This God is he that ſent his people Iſrael remedy when they were in thraldome, in the land of Egipt, that parted the red ſea, & drowned their enemies, that did ſafe conduc… them in the wilderneſſe, that rained downe Manna, that defended Dauid from the force of Saul, that foiled the G… ant, that ſaued Ionas in the bottome o… the ſea, that deliuered Daniel out o… th… Lions denne, Ieremy out of the dung… on, the thrée children out of the hot conſuming Duen: he is that God that se… his welbeloued ſonne, to abide th… death, to redéeme mankinde from th… bondage of ſinne, and from the iawe… of ſathan: Finally this is that God by whole power all things were ma… and by whoſe onelyonly prouidence eue… thing is effectually mooued, ordered, a… brought to paſſe.

Reaſ.

All praiſe therefore bee vntounto this …od moſt mighty, moſt righteous, and …ly, that on this tender wiſe hath loued …wnworthy wreatches, deſeruing no…ing but the rigor of his Iuſtice. Now I …ay you declare what was the cauſ…at moued God to create man and to ſet …im in the world?

Reli.

That he ſhould ſerue him, and …cri…ie him.

Reaſ.

Which is the way to ſerue God, …d to glorifie hi…right?

Reli.

To acknowledge him, as he hathRom. 1. 16. appointed by his word.

Reaſ.

Which call you the word of God?

Reli.

The ſame which the Patriarches, Prophets, and Apoſtles receiued by the …ly ghoſt, and committed to writing, which we call at this day by the name of …e eld and new teſtament.Ephe. 2. 20.

Reaſ.

How ſhould a man know, that …hoſe monuments left by the Patriarkes, Prophets, and Apoſtles, came from God: or that they did euer leaue behind them …y ſuch writings, as we tearme the old …nd new teſtament.

Religi.

As touching the authority therof, though the orderly diſpoſitiō of the wiſdome duplicate page duplicate page of God, the doctrine it ſelf, ſau…ring nothing of earthlineſſe, the Godly agrée▪ment of all parts together among them-ſelues the maieſty of God ſhinyng forth in that homelineſſe of ſpéech, the laying together of the foreſayings of the prophets, and the ſucceſſes of the ſame, and many other ſuch arguments, may …o…pell the wicked ones to confeſſe, that God is the only Author of the Scripture yet certainely by none other mean, the… by the ſecret teſtimonie of y^• holy Ghoſt are our barts truely perſwaded, that it is the word of God, for ſaith y^• Apoſtle, that which we preach, is the word of faith: AndRo… ▪ …. 8 in another place, the whole Scripture (ſaith he) is giuē by the inſpiratiō of God.

Reaſ.

But what doe you ſay to thoſe ſel▪lowes…. Ti. 3171 that account the ſcripture, a dou…ſed or poſitiue law, made for ciuill gouernment onelyonly and authoriſed by Antiquity, as if it were the diuine word of God, leaſt man not beeing reſtrained of the heddineſſe o… his own affections by ſome other terrour then that of corporal puniſhment, ſhouldAtheyſt. … not yeeld himſelfe vntounto neceſſary order?

Rel.

For my part, I hauehave little to ſay t… thoſe Monſters, neither by the grace … God, in any ſociety, will I hauehave to doe with them, but my praier, ſhalbe that the …ord will ſodenly turne their hearts, or … his good timt, pay them their iuſt de…rts. Truely of this ſort of mē, I thanke God, in all my daies (although I hauehave …ard of many) did I neuer know more …en thrée, which if it had pleaſed theTh… br… th…. …ord, were to many by two and one; theſe …rée, were naturall bretherēn, men ma… …lous politique inſundry ſciences, and …orldly wiſe, but we the iudgements of God: the two …ounge… were hanged, not many yeares ſince iuſtly condemned for …gh …reaſon, and the third being the elder …rother, was taken in adultery, and with … knife …iabbed in, and ſlaine by the hands of his owne wife: and ſo farre as I vn…erſtand, ther… is not one of the name left …liue. The foole (ſaith the Prophet) dothPſa. 14. 1. ſay in his …art there is no God, and doubt…eſſe they which with their toungs doe prophāe his word deny not y^• ſame thing, or at leaſt y^• which is as …u…l: for beſides, that betwéene God and his word there is …lwaies a mutuall relation, ſo as the one … not without the other, we finde in theIohn. 1. 1. Scripture, that God is the word; …s for al thoſe that are departed this life, in that mind, I leaue them to God, (though without repentance, we ſay they could not b… ſaued,) And as for thoſe that bee yet … uing I looke for nothing more aſſuredly then to heare tell of their ruine, and ſo likewiſe I leaue them.

Rea.

There is yet an other ſort, which do not ſo brodely blaſpheame God, as thoſePapiſt… incredulous wretche … of whome wee hauehave ſpoken: But they affirme, yea and that very boldly, that through the diuerſity of tranſlations the Scriptures are falſified in ſuc… wiſe, that no certenty is left, for beleefe to reſt vponupon. This thing although w^t the grau… & learned ſort may happily not go for pay▪ment, becauſe they are able to iudge be twixt eueryevery tranſlation, and his original yet are the meane ſort ſhrewdly handle… with that ſuggeſtion; for thus ſtreach the… out that obiectiō. The Scriptures (ſay they were deliuered by y^• Patriarches, Prophe… An obiect.and Apoſtles, ſet downe in the Hebrue, and Greeke toungs, afterwards …anſlated aft… diuers faſhios by men: yea ſuchmen as w… either ignorant of the truth, …partial … their owne …on ceits, for doth …ot the di… agreemēt of our Engliſh tranſlations be… witneſſe, and make the caſe plaine inough.

Reli.

I know theſe wranglers ſomewhatTrim objectors. to well, and doe p…eaue the wilineſſe, not of them (as … …) but of S… tan: Theſe men, becauſe they can no … ger with their Pope-holy-righteouſne… ſit in the conſciences of the Godly, and cauſe them to imbrace that whoredome of the ſea of Ro…, would y…t be loth, that Satan ſhould …eeſe his intreſt, in thoſe that may be …ayed, by any ſwing of reaſon, to incline to their part, if thoſe good men would be ſo good, as to ſhew forth our errours, they ſhould both bee heard and thanked. I remember well y^t I hauehave often heard this obiection, but who wereAnſvver. y^e obiectors? truely a few ſillymen, either papiſts, or Newters of ſome little iudgement more then horſes, at whome the wiſe doe laugh, and the Godly harted ſpew. It is ſufficient for our aſſurance, that the Lord hath promiſed, to be ſuch a patron, and protector of his word, That it Mat. 24. …5.ſhall not periſh, when heauen and earth ſhall be brought to naught; and that hee will hauehave no title added to it or diminiſhed from it. Therfore let vsus giuegive them ouer, and harken to our Sauiour Chriſt, promiſing that. Whoſoeuer beleeueth shalbe ſaued, is, Apo. 22. 18 19. Mar. 16. 16 Ioh. 20. 29. Rom. 10. 13. Act. 16. 31▪ Iob. 3. 3 …bleſſed, shalbe pardoned of all his ſinnes, and hauehave life euerlaſting. And contrariwiſ… …eatning, that, whoſoeuer beleeueth not, … neuer be ſaued but abide the cuerlaſting …rſe of God.

Reaſ.

Well let thus much ſuffice concerning the word of God. Now I prayGod. you let vsus returne, to ſpeake of God ſomewhat more: you ſay that the nature, or eſſence that is common in the god-head, among the perſons of the Father, the Son, and holy Ghoſt, is one ſingle ſubſtance, vnable to be ſeuered?

Reli

So I ſay indéed, for otherwiſe ſhould it come to paſſe, that ſo many perſons as there be, ſo many Gods ſhould there bee ſeuerally deuided: therefore theſe thrée perſons vnited together, in nature, are neuer ſeperated, but diſtinguiſhed, ſo as the father, is the father only, the Sonne, the Sonne onelyonly, and the holy Ghoſt, the holy Ghoſt only.

Reaſ.

As theſe three perſons are but one God in godhead, ſo, are they likewiſe of one euerlaſtingneſſe or eternity? and of one equality without degree?

Reli.

Yea truely, ſaue that in order,…. the father is the firſt▪ being of none, but himſelfe alon… the Sonne is ſecond begottenOrd… ▪ of the Father: the holy Ghoſt is the third, by an vnſpeakeable maner proceeding of them both.

Reaſ.

Surely ſo farre as I can perecaue, this miſtery, is moſt wonderfull, and vnpoſſible to be conceiued by man?

Reli.

Therefore full wiſely hath hée taught vsus to beléene, and reuerence the ſecrots of God, that ſaith, Fides non habet meritum vbi ratio habet experimentum.

Reaſ.

Beſides theſe, what other thingsExod. 20. 5. are we to conſider chiefly in God?

Reli.

That he is excéeding iuſt in puniſhingMercy and iuſtice. the diſobedient, and wicked, and that hée is excéeding mercifull to the Godly, and ſuch as louelove him, for it is written, that vntounto ſuch the Lord is mercifull and gracious, ſlow to anger, abundant in goodneſſe and Exod. 34. 6.truth, reſeruing mercy for thouſands, forgiuing iniquity and tranſgreſſion.

Reaſ.

But it ſeemeth by this order of his mercy and iuſtice, that ſome things doe come to paſſe, which God willeth not, otherwiſe ſhould there neede no puniſhment, and therein I cannot perceaue, how his omnipotency is not impeached?

Reli.

Doubtleſſe he could not be God, if any thing ſhould happen, that he would not hauehave come to paſſe, whereof the Apoſtle was full wary in this ſaying, God bringeth all thinges to paſſe according toEpheſ. 1. 11. the councell of his owne will.

Reli.

Yet can I not perceiue, how his Iuſtice and mercy, do agree together.

Reli.

Theſe two are reconciled, and well made manifeſt, in his ſonne. For after our firſt parent Adam, by the eternall decreement, had caſt him-ſelfe, and al his progeny, into the defilement of ſinne, God did raiſe him vp againe in this ſecond Adam, euen Ieſus Chriſt, for whichApo. 13. 8. cauſe he is called, the Lamb ſlaine from the beginning of the world.

Rea.

What meane you by that word ſinne?

Reli.

I call any thing ſinne, that in thought, word, or deed, is committed contraryMat. 5. 28. to the law and will of God.

Rea.

And may a man ſay without ſinne, that ſinne is willed by God?

Reli.

Surely God ought not to be called the author of ſinne▪ for how can iniquity iſſue from that fountaine, where nothing is, ſaue onelyonly the clear… water of righteouſneſſe? Notwithſtanding, ſo farre am I of from holding him a ſinner, that reuerently doth aſcribe all things to the prouidence of God, that I accompt him rather an Ignorent, and blaſphemous ſinner that ſuppoſeth any thing to happen by fortune, or chance, as if God were ignorant, or careleſſe thereof.

Reaſ.

Here I perceiue the nayle is driuen to the head, therefore you had need go diſcreetly to worke, leaſt God bee diſabled in any thing, that is dew to his omnipotency,A meane t… ▪ be obſerued. or that more be attributed to his power, then agreeth with his iuſtice. Verily this is the thing, wherein I hauehave not onelyonly long time longed to bee inſtructed, but alſo beene greatly troubled in minde about the ſame: I pray you therefore what is the prouidence of God?

Reli.

By this word prouidence, isProuidence what it i…. meant the incomprehenſible fore-knowledge, and wiſedome, whereby from the fartheſt end of eternity, God did behold, appoint, and prouide, when, where, and wherefore, all thinges in heauen and earth ſhould bee: as alſo his vnmeaſurable, and omnipotent power, by which hee hath brought, bringeth, and will bring, all the ſame things, in their ſeaſons, effectually, to paſſe, according to his own will and purpoſe.

Reaſ.

But ſith the Lord is righteous, and ſo farre off from willing ſinne, that on the contrary part, hee doth not only forbid it, but alſo moſt greeuouſly puniſh it, how can we ſay that ſinne doth attend vponupon the ordinances of God?

Reli.

Certainely my very ſoule dothNeither raſh, nor …morous. feare, leaſt by ouer much bouldneſſe, I ſhould violate, or ſéeme to neglect that rule of reuerence, that in Gods behalfe, is to be obſerued: On the otherſide I would be loath, that by to much cowardize, I ſhould diſhonor the truth: therefore as there want not teſtimonies of ſcripture, to warrant this doctrine, ſo I thinke it not vnméete, that herein, I follow that generall ſentence of the Apoſtle, whereof wee hauehave already ſpoken, namely, thatEpheſ. 1. 11 God bringeth all things to paſſe according to the councell of his owne will, and leaſt I may ſ…en…e to giuegive to much liberty, to my owne interpretation, I wil alſo incline to the doctrine of Saint Auguſtine who ſayth to the very ſame effect. The wil of God is the chiefe and principall cauſe of all maner of actions, & motions whatſoeuer, for there is nothing, that Auguſt. de trinitat. lib. 3.proceedeth not from that vnſearcheable wiſdome and will of his. Of theſe two we gather, that if the wil of God, be the principall, and originall cauſe of all things, that is to ſay, of all actions and motions: Either that ſinne doth come to paſſe accordingAll things are done by the will of God. to that ſouereigne will of his, or elſe that ſinne is nothing at all: that is to ſay neither action, nor motion, which obſurdity by no meanes can be granted: wherefore vnderunder theſe two banners, though the firſt may animate a right cowardly ſoldier, I dare now more bouldly ſhew thée a reaſon of mine owne, & this it is: By Angels & men did ſinne take poſſeſſion of this world, as appeareth rightly, in the derlining of our firſt parents. Adam and Eue. But neither Angels norArgument. men, were euer ſeperated from the gouernment, and ſubiection of their Lord and maker. Ergo. Sinne doth poſſeſſe the world, by the ordinance, that is to ſay the will and appointment of God: This thing is witneſſed by the …oſtle. who ſaith, that: No man ſhal re…i…e wil of God. Moreouer behold ſaith the Rom. 9. 19.Lord I hauehave created the Smith that bloweth the coales in the fire, and him that bringeth ſorth an Inſtrument for his work.Eſay 56 41. I, I ſay, hauehave created the deſtroyer to deſtroy. Many ſuch teſtimonies may bee recited out of the word of God; But becauſe the wicked will here take the bitt in theyr teeth (accompting God the authorA reſtraint to the vvicked. of ſinne) and runne on head-long after theyr owne appetite, to all kinde of miſchiefe as though it were not meerley vnlawful: wee muſt before wee go any further, ſeeke to abate their courage, and take away that buckler, where-vnderunder they will ſhield and defend their pretended innocency; Therefore, although by that almighty eye of God, nothing doth paſſe in the whole world vnſéene, and therefore not vnwilled: yet cannot GodRom. 9 be called the Author of euill, for ſaith the Apoſtle, there is no vnrighteouſneſſe with God.

But the corr…n of the minde of the firſt mon (ſai… …ter Caluin) by which we are …c…me …eers …ame partly by the pr…ement of Sathan, partly byMan not to … excuſed the fr…y of nature, which nature man did de…e, by his owne voluntary and wilfull fall from whence we perceiue, …pecting the meane and ſecond cau…) that mankind doth periſh through …owne default; And in as much as noMan not to be excuſed. … ſinneth, vnwillingly, but of his own …ord for the moſt part, no man is vn…ly puniſhed, by the hand of God, for …y? That is the only cauſe of ſinne, that … exclude all other cauſes beſides it …: But God excludeth no mans wil inArgument. …own actions: Ergo, God is not y^• only …ſe of ſinne. If any man wil obiect, y^• Obiection.… is not the cauſe of his owne euill, in much as God the ſoueraigne cauſe of …ſes doth preſcribe the euent, and di…t eueryevery action to the appointed end, anſwer out of the Maior of my formerAnſvver. …ument: That is the onelyonly cauſe of …ne, which excludeth all cauſes beſides …elfe.

But man in the wicked actions of …olatry, Murther, Adultery, Theft, and …h other neglecteth the commande…nt of God, and ſo far forth as in him …th, excludeth all cauſes, ſaue his …ne wicked luſt onelyonly, Ergo: Man in …t reſpect, is the only cauſe of ſinne … iuſtly deſerueth the wrath and correction of God, as witneſſeth the Prophet, ſaying, thy deſtruction O Iſraell commethO ſec. 13. of thy ſelfe.

Reaſ.

I hauehave heard thee ſay ear now, that Angells and men were created accordingAngelles and men. to Gods owne likeneſſe, that is, of a ſound and vpright diſpoſition, and will: which thing truely is very conuenient, in the eye of reaſon, for if they had beene ordayned euill by nature, or to that end, that they ſhould decline from that eſtate by the will of God, it would argue God to bee vnrighteous, at leaſt in reſpect of that purpoſe of his.

Reli.

Nay it is rather an inconuenience many waies which thou vttereſt except the will of God were not worthy to bee the rule of righteouſneſſe; but ſ… what other abſurdities doe ariſe out o… Abſurditiesthis ſuggeſtion of thine, as this: God created Angels and men in al points ſound not pretending that they ſhould degenerate, neuertheleſſe they are become euill and hauehave peruerted that eſtate of integrity, Ergo they hauehave broken the wil of God and conuayed them-ſelues out of his o… dinance: as who ſhould ſay they are therefore exemted from all ſubiection of their maker, becauſe they hauehave béene ſtubburne againſt him. Againe, al men at this day are corrupt and euill. Ergo, All men that are now liuing, are without the compaſſe of the ordinannce of God. Theſe and many other ſuch abſurdities, doe follow neceſſarily of thine obiection.

Reaſ.

Nay Sir, herein as I take it you hauehave deceued your ſelfe, with plauſibleEſſentiall eſtate. ſurmiſes: ſor if the eſſentiall eſtate of man be conſidered apart, from his faulty quality, not onelyonly Adam in the time of integrity, was the ſubiect of God, but after his fall alſo, and in this caſe may the conſequent proue, that the whole route, or ſort of wicked men are comprehended within the ordinance of God; Neuertheleſſe the corruption of natue and all the euill actions of men, may ſimply be tranſferred to the will and mallice of Satan, andCorruptio. the fraylty of the workers.

Reli.

Truely I muſt néeds confeſſe, that this ſhift procéedeth not altogether from ſimplicity. Notwithſtanding if we …end our affection ſimply to accept of the …ame, we ſhal fal very fondly to conſēt, … the blaſphemous Maniches, which do oppoſeBlaſphemy of the Maniches. Satan againſt God, for yet againe, how ſhall God bée omnipotent, if any other ſucceſſe of things fall out, then as doth beſt agrée, with his good pleaſure? nay then how ſhall we not take the holy Ghoſt napping with infinite leaſings which ſaith, there is no euill in the Citie, which the Lord hath not done. AgaineAmos. 3. 6. Lamenta. Iere. 3, 38. out of the mouth of the Lord procéedeth good and euill: he hath made all things for his own ſake, yea euen the wicked, for an euill day &c. Notwithſtanding, if we alude to that will of God, which hée hath reueled vntounto vsus, according to which he is truly ſaid to be God, that can in no wiſe will ſinne, but he ſhall forth with bee vnrighteous,Prou. 16, 4 ſo farre am I from not conſenting thereunto, that on the contrary part I yéeld the whole aſſent of my ſoule. ButTwo things to be obſerued. that wee may diſcourſe of this matter more familiarly, we are eſpecially to obſerue two things: the firſt whereof is this: how, or in what ſort ſin entered into the heart of man: the ſecond, of what effect or powre ſin is againſt God, theſe two, ſhall make it manifeſt enough, that Satan neuer hitherto did, neither ſhal a… any time, hereafter, ruffle out his part, either in this world, or elſwhere, without …is pattent, or commiſſion frō the Lord:The firſt. …s touching the firſt of theſe, we agrée according to the ſcripturs that Adam, in his …ſtate of innocency in all the inſtrumen…all par…s of his body, had a proportiona…le reſemblance, aſwel in ſoule, as minde to the Image of God (I mean not in per…on, but in holineſſe) ſo that he ſtood at that time in ſuch high and heauenly perfection that no tittle could be added forNote well. his greater integrity: how bee it we are well aſſured, that God neuer did beauti…e him with the ornament of conſtancy whereby he might hauehave obtained ableneſſe, and power to ſtand out in that e…tate. Now therefore is it manifeſt, that …inne, beginning at the ſame vnconſtanty, to inſinuat among the good …arts of Adam tooke not euen there his very original as a thing hapning, or comming by chance, for this only reaſon, that God would not furniſh him (as in truth there was no law to bind him) with conſtancy, … well as with all other notable endou…ents, as in whom he had fore-ordained, that y^• high eſtate ſhould be tickle, & but change ably good. For how was it poſſible, that any thing ſhould intrude it ſelfe into the worke of God, where of hée was not only moſt wary, & héedful, but of power alſo to intercept any thing that might oſſeud him? for this cauſe doubtleſſe, it is ſaid. That the people of Iſrael, & the gentilesAct. 4. 27. …8. did gather themſelues together, againſt our Lord and Sauiour Ieſus Chriſt to do what ſoeuer the hand and counſel of God, had appointed to be done from euer laſting, in whom (ſaith the Apoſtle) we were predeſtinate before the foundation of the world. Finally we finde that beforeEph. 1. 4. the inſtant of mans creation, mu… more then before he fel away from righteouſneſſe, God had planted in the ga… daine, a trée of the knowledge of good & … uil: In this truly can we perceaue one … ther apparance of truth, but that God vnchangeable purpoſe would hauehave hi… to taſt thereof, although hee were forbi… dent for why? had not this thing bin pr… fixed by the decrement of God, why mad… he that tree of nature by yt ſelfe contr… to al the reſt? why made he any different of good and euil at al? who without doub… could hauehave made as eaſily the things y^• … would, as hee can eaſily doe the things that be done. Why made he any of the inſtruments whereby man was changed, …amely, Satan, and the Serpent: loe thou …oſt perreaue (I hope) day light at this little wicket.

As touching the ſecond thing herein toThe second. be obſerued, namely, of what power or efficacy ſinne is againſt God, I ſay that albeit many fond & vntoward witted men, hauehave maintayned in time paſt two originall beginnings of things, aſcri…ing to good things, GOD for the author, and to the euill things the diuell, whome with his euill things, they diuel…iſhly déemed more eternall, then God & good things, and that Maugre the might of God, the diuell played all his vngratious pageants: yet conſidering, that every man but meanely inſtructed in the …chole of reaſon, is ready to ſpew at this …laſphemy: I hope a few teſtimonies, from among many, may ſerue to ſuffice the Godly: we read therefore in the hiſtoryIob. 1. … of that righteous man Iob, that Satan could not once touch his perſon, goods, nor cattle, before ſuch time, as the LORD had giuen him leaue. Likewiſe, the deuells beſought our SauiourMat. 8. 31. Jeſus Chriſt ſaying: If thou caſt v… out, ſuffer vsus to go into the hear'd of ſwine Moreouer, if we ſhould hunt out by curious ſpeculation, the creation of angels the cauſe, m…mer, time, and place of thei… fal, (which little partaineth to edification but rather to ſéed their itching and fantaſticall eares, that cannot content them ſelues, with the ſimplicity of faith) we ſhould find that Satan in his firſt eſrate was the creature of God, and there fore can hauehave but a power ſubiect, in the executionNote well. of ſuch wickedneſſe, as he executeth.

Rea.

Be it as thou haſt ſaid, for it accordeth well with reaſon: But let vsus come backe to the ſecond inſtrument or meaneMeane Cauſe. cauſe of Adams ſall, namely the ſerpent becauſe I would gladly vnderſtand, whether he ſerued Satan as an inſtrumēt in that enterprice, or whether of his owne malice he did helpe to delude the woman, knowing before hand the Lamentable euent o… tranſgreſſion.

Reli.

Truely albeit the ſerpent was moſt ſubtill of beaſts, before ſuch time as the gift was taken from him for his fault, and in that reſpect like enough to maligne the eſtate of man, if he weare capeable thereof; yet doe I perceue no reaſon, that he ſhould hauehave any inſightThe serpent. at all, into the calamity, of tranſgreſſion; Nor yet that he might any way be incenſed by mal…tious pretence, to bring mankind into Apoſtacy: But this doth offer it ſelfe more méetely to mine opinion, that Satan, (as ſaith M Caluin in his expoſition, vponupon that part of Scripture) hauing then had no familiarity, or communication with man, ſtanding then in néed of an inſtrument, did chooſe out the ſubtill Serpent, becauſe he was the apteſt, or moſt actiue for ſuch an exployt, into whom for the better finiſhing thereof, he conneyed him-ſelfe, and ſo gat acceſſe, more fitly to the woman.

Rea.

Well then, as for thine arguments of Gods diuine prouidence, truely I muſt needs cōfeſſe, that I find them in ſome reſpect ſo plauſible, & matching with reaſon, that thou doſt almoſt compell me to yeald vntounto thee: yet for as much, as God is therebyObiections againſt prouidence. brought in ſuſpition of euil I draw back and dare not franckly yeald my conſent: Therefore may it not be ſaid, that GOD doth appropriat all things which hauehave any inſtinct of nature, beſides man to his owne direction, and turne man ouer to his peculiar choyſe of well, or ill doing, hauing reaſon and the word of God, as Lanterns to guide him aright.

Rel.

Uerrily neither can I perceue any reaſon that ſhould moue the Lord toNote well. giuegive the Law out of his own hand, conſidering he was not ignorant, how apt man was to abuſe him-ſelfe, and to incline to the euill part; Except God were well pleaſed, that man ſhould run beadlong into that laborinth of miſchiefe, into which we all are fallen, through his default: and then commeth all to one recknoning,Fr…. for his will is alſo there. Notwith-ſtanding, I wot well there be …er…ine▪ Frée-willian Papiſtes, Anabaptiſts, Pelag…ans, Celeſtines, and others, wich doe …outely maintaine that man in his naturall powers hath that validity to climbe into the heauens: But our Sauiour Jeſus Chriſt, reproueth all ſuch,10. 6. 4 4. ſaying. No man can come to me, except the father that ſent me drawe him, Againe, you hauehave not choſen me (ſaith …e) but I hauehave10. 15. 16. choſen you and ordained you, that yea go and bring forth frute. To which merritm…ngers, the Prophet ſaith: Their owne arme did not ſaue them but the rightPſ… … …. 3. hand of the Lord, and the light of his…. Cor. 4. 6. countenance, becauſe he did fauour them, Like-wiſe ſaith the Apoſtle: what haſt thou that thou haſt not receaued, if thou haſt reaceued it, why doſt thou reioyce, as though thou hadſt not receaued it? Moreouer,Pro 20. 24. Iere. 10. 23 the ſtoppes of a man, ſaith Salomon, are ruled by the Lord, the way of a man is not in him-ſelfe, the Lord hath mercy onRom. 9. 18. whome hee will hauehave mercy and hardeneth whome hee will harden, it is not inVer. …6. Eph. 2. 8. the willer, nor in the runner, but in God that ſheweth mercy: yea are ſaued by grace through faith, and not of your ſelues: it is the gift of God: wee are not of our ſelues able to thinke any thing as of our ſelues. Notwithſtanding all theſe I ſay, and almoſt1 Cor. 3 5. infinite numbers of ſuch like, doe theſe deuout men, as though it were for the onelyonly defence or ſafety of a Chriſtian common-weale, violently and with whole thouſands of bloudy combats, and challenges, like fooliſh bould champions, maintaine the quarrell of mans frée will and power.

And why▪ for ſooth becauſe they would in no wiſe intangle God, or bring him in within the liſts or compaſe of euill, this deuotion of theirs, will not ſuffer them, to entertaine ſuch teſtimones of Scripture, as doe make mention of Gods predeſtination and prouidence, wherin they ſhew themſelues more nice, or would be accounted more holy, then the Holy Ghoſt him-ſelfe: well let it bee that all their ſturres and bra…les do iſſue forth of that fountaine of zeale, and not from the ſlaughter-houſe of infidelity, and Pagamſme, yet ſaith the Apoſtle: All thisRom. 10. 2. zeale is blindneſſe and damnable, as not being ſeaſoned with the Salt of knowledge: woe be to him, (ſaith the Prophet) that for ſaketh God, to make fleſh his right arme; Yea heare me not, ſaith our SauiourIoh. 8. 17. Chriſt becauſe yea are not of God. Hereof it commeth, that the Lord doth complaine by the month of the Prophet ſaying, I hauehave nouriſhed and brought vp children, but they hauehave rebelled againſtEſa. 12. 31 me, the oxe knoweth his owner, and the Aſſe his Maſters Crib, but Iſrael hath not knowne my waies.

But that wee may better bethinke vsus, and not ſo negligently paſſe ouer that pure and vnſpotted, Romaine Catholique zeale, it is neceſſary that wee call backe the nature of mankind to her firſt creation. And thē if it be demanded whether frée-will were in mans nature at his firſt creation; I anſwer, (& yet not I) but the word of God) ther was ſo, for I make no do … frée-will, be in God, then was there and frée-will in man; who in that eſtate was the liuely likeneſſe and Image of God: but if it bee demanded, whether in that nature, were any fréewill, to deliberate on the euill part I deny it; for how could Adam debate vponupon y^e No free…l in mans firſt nature vntounto euill.thing, that yet was not entered into the world, eſpecially, ſéeing with the whole aſſent of his mind and body, he was diſpoſed to obey the commandement of God: Furthermore, behold I pray you the gallant zeale of theſe Godly men: which wil in no wiſe ſuffer y^• Scripture, according to the wiſdome of God, to tranſfer al the actions of men to the foreknowledge ofThe Papiſt… zeale. God: & yet they themſelues, will not only not ceaſe with moſt hateful blaſphemy, to proue him an outward conſentor to al vngraciouſneſſe, but alſo more blaſphemoſly goe about to attaint the very nature of God, of ſo much abontynation, & wickedneſſe, as by that generall propagation, is deſcended from Adam, into his progeny. Here hauehave I néed to beſtur me apace, for if I handle not the matter right nimbly, this bould challendge, ſhal quickly bring more fiſts about mine eares, then mine owne; but it is no matter, I feare not the quarrel, & therefore muſt I now make it good, though I ſéeme to ſtand in briers vp to y^• chin, or elſe cry creake, like a daſtard crauin: for I know defendants more thē to many, y^• are ready to ſnatch vp y^• gloue before it come at y^• ground. Let vsus yet againe therfore returne to Adā, & with one blow or twaine this fray ſhalbe ended. This mā y^• Lord ſaid was created according to his own likenes whom y^• Papiſts doth affirme, to hauehave receaued fréewil to thoſe euill, by y^• prerogatiue of his firſt eſtate: but God therin is ſlaundered & that Annocēcy of Adam belied, for yet again IGod ſlandered. ſay, euil was not thē in y^• world, & therfor I perceiue not, how God did ſet before him fire & water, & cōmit the acceptāce of either to his choiſe; but I finde y^• hee ſaid vntounto him, thou ſhalt not taſte of the tree, if thou doſt, thou ſhalt die the death: goe toGen. 3. thē: the wil of God was alwaies righteous, e…en ſo was Adams fréeneſſe, fréely righteous, according to y^• righteouſneſſe of God, ſaue that it was chāgeable: but if the defendant wil not for ſhame ſay, that ſinful appetite is righteouſnes, either let him confeſſe that Adam had the ſame appetite, y^• did carry him frō hi… pure eſtate ſomewher elſe, thē immediately from y^• hand of God by creation: or elſe, let him cōclude againſt God, that that vncleaneneſſe of Adam, came from an vnclean… workemaiſter: or at the leaſt that Adam was neuer the image of the righteous God, & ſo conſequently proue God a liar, in that he did ſo call him. If all this be to no purpoſe, I deſire to be reſolued, how the Papiſt hath not done open wrong to God, and wherein my aſſertion is falſe, they ſay (perhaps that which they would not) that only the nature of God, I mean… his righteouſneſſe according to which he created Adā hath ſome reſpect of euill, asNote. alſo y^• ther procéeded from y^• hand of God a ſubſtāte corrupted, naturally inclinable to inquity, but moreouer, & moſt vntruly, y^• God by a palable indifferency, and luke-warme affection, hath giuen his owne outward conſent, to all the wickedneſſe of the world, if this were true then ſhal we neuer hauehave néeded Jeſus Chriſt, to pay our debt, for no remiſſion néedeth, if a commiſſion be once granted: but the word, or commandment of God, doth refraine vsus of all manner of euill, therefore may we ſtedfaſtly beléeue, that God neuer gaue man frée-will to commit euill.

Now Sir let the indifferent giuegive ſentence, whether theſe men hauehave committed high treaſon againſt God, or I hauehave cited them to anſwer for themſelues, by iuſt accuſation: if it be found, that I hauehave done them iniury, I will not faile to ſéeke ſome way, to make them ſo large amends, as my fault ſhall be adiudged to require, and ſo to appeaſe their charitable anger: if they be found to hauehave retayned no more modeſty or defence,zeale muſt be ordered by the word. for the righteouſneſſe of God then his own word, let their zeale (a Gods name) be condemned as fooliſh, & that I may vſe the words of the Apoſtle, without knowledge: and they at laſt leue off their fréewill and meritorious righteouſneſſe, andRom. 10 2. reuerently giuegive place to the word of God which is not aſhamed thus bouldly to plead in the behalfe of his omnipotency, and prouidence in ruling, and diſpoſing the actions of all things. The Lord did harden, the heart of Phara…. E…o. 9. 12. 1. Sam. 16. 14. 1 King. 22. 23, Eſay. 63. 17 to the 2. 11. 2 Sam. 12. 11. Eſay. 45. 7. Rom 1. 28. Ezek. 14. 9.He ſent an euill ſpirit to vexe Saul. He …h appointed euill, and put a ſpirit of ly…g in o y^• mouth of the Prophets. He cau…h man to depart from his feare. He hath …t ſtrong deluſion, that lyes might bee …leeued: Hee raizeth vp the euil in the …ſes of his owne ſeruants. Hee doth …ke peace, and create euill: He giueth vp …o a reprobate minde: He doth all the …ll that is in the Cittie: He deceaueth the …phets which bee deceiued, ſtretcheth …th his hand vponupon thoſe Prophets, that …-ſelfe hath deceiued, and deſtroyeth …m from amidds his People, and yet is …aies all holy and Righteous.

Well not-withſtanding theſe, & whole …ds of ſuch like, which cruſh in …ces the frée-will of man and moſt …ngly vnderunder prop the ordinance of …d, yet may I not thinke thus to pack my pipes & be trudging, leaſt I ſéem triumph before the victory, and to …ſt of a blaſt, that ſhaketh no corne▪ …erfore hauing ſetled my ſelfe once …ne to my defence, at length there …ghteth this perilous ſtroke: What …a, ſayth maiſter Aduerſary, yf you will ſo malapertly, auouch th… ObiectionAdam, had not frée-will, it ſhall come paſſe that in that action of falling, he h… no will at all, and ſo conſequently t… … God did vſe ſome actuall conſtrai… which being graunted, how I pray y… could God puniſh him, or his poſteri… as being …eiected in the ſame fall; F… ſooth I anſwere; That after ſuch …i… Anſwer.as Adam had giuen eare to Sath… his heart began to ſwell, and wa… ſo bigge with concupiſcence that he would néeds ſtrike ſaile to his own miſfortune: yee ſée now I goe abo… nothing leſſe then to robbe, and … poyle Adam of a will, that was ſ… vntounto euill.

But my purpoſe is that Sath… be accompted the mediate Author th… of: For ſurely it can in no wiſe … akinn… to that will which was giuegive him of God, except it were poſſible … GOD to hauehave a ſinfull will alſo, whoſe likeneſſe he was framed, as w… hauehave already proued.

Nay I ſay moreouer, that as the w… Mans freevvill, is only free vntounto …uill.of Adam before his fall was free vn… righteouſneſſe, and to the ſeruice God, euen ſo after hee had giuen his … …nſent vntounto ſatan, that his will, and …nſequently, the will of his ofſpring, …as alwayes frée vntounto euill, and the …ruice of ſinne, not able of it ſelfe, without the grace of God, once: o riſe vp to …hold the beauty of righeouſneſſe, nor … thinke a good thought; for it is writ…. After yee were the ſeruants of ſinne,Rom. 6. 20. …e were free from Righteouſneſſe: All are one out of the way, they are all corrupt, …ere is none good, no not one: the Lord …w that the wickedneſſe of man wasPſal. 14. 3. …eat in earth, and all the imaginations of …s heart, and thoughtes, were onelyonly euillGene. 6. 5. …ntinually.

Héere if the heat of mine Aduerſa…es were ſo farre paſt, that they would …uſe and breath, I might take oportunity to lette fall this one féeble ſtroake. …f Adam in his righteous eſtate, and …gh perfection, had power to doe the …ill of God, if he would; and yet did fall …rough infirmity, how ſhall the Papiſt that of him-ſelfe, hath not power to …ink one good thought) fulfill the whole …aw, and deſerue ſo bountifully forThe f…lly of the …ap…lls. him-ſelfe, and ſuch of his friends, as wil friendly conſider his paynes: Alaſſe poore ſoule, hee had néed to ſtand hard to his tackling, and to plye his ſtumps apace, or elſe I feare me, he wil be taken tardy, with hyp ocrites and deceiuers of men.

Wel al this while doe I beap who… coales vponupon mine own head, for hauing graunted, that the firſt mans fall did ſpring out of y^• boſom of infirmitie, now muſt I prepare my ſelfe to beare this counterbuff, for ſaith the aduerſary nowObiection. are ye taken like a deſperate Cockerel of your Father Manicheus own brood. For how could infirmity deſtroy the lineaments and good parts of man, & gett the goale againſt all that vprightneſſe wher-with God indued him.

I anſwer, it is true indéed: Ergo whatAnſwer. an abſurdity ariſeth out of frée-wil? therfore if I had not tranſferr'd the whole intereſt of things ere now to the Diuine prouidence of God, yet ſhal this obiection come too late.

Rea.

By the proceſſe of this circumſtanceAdams power. I perceiue that Adam had once power to ſtand, & obſerue the Commandement of God, if he would, but in that he not only would not, but alſo on the other ſide wilfully & like a rebel did caſt down him-ſelf, and his ofſpring into baſe miſfortune, from the top of felicity, ſurely it is moſt wonderfull to me: wherof there yet ariſeth this que…ion? Why would he nor.

Reli.

Doubtieſſe I cannot aduertiſe thée, of a more forceable cauſe, then the ordinance of God: but if thou wilt, wée may yet ſpeak more plainly.

Therefore it fared with Adam i… The cauſe why Adam fell.that eſtate, as now adaies it doth with many men, that will not hauehave great plenty of money in their coffers, becauſe they cannot get it. So Adam would not continue in his integrity (for intruth … fel willingly) becauſe he could not reſiſt the ordinance of his God: But leaſt wee may ſéeme to wander without our liſts, let our Sauiour Chriſt witneſſe the truth in this caſe: Come ye bleſſed ofMath. 23. 34. my father (ſaith he) poſſeſſe the Kingdom prepared for you before the foundation of the World; Agayne, hee is called theApoc. 18. 8. Lambe ſlayne from the beginning of of the VVorld. Therfore let vsus conclude, that if ſhe Lambe were ſlayne from the beginning (wherof we may not doubt, in as much as y^e holy Ghoſt ha… ſpoken it) & the Kingdom of heauen (th… ſame Kingdom I mean y^• wee ſhal in…o through Ieſus Chriſt) were prepared f… the children of God, before the foundations of the world, that the fall of ma… was prepared in like manner: for th… one cannot …e without the other.

Rea.

Verily in this wonderfull ſecret … ſo, Reaſon doth vtterly falle me.

Reli.

Anſwer thy ſelfe, it was not f… naught that the Apoſtle himſelfe hauing waded in this matter, whoſe inſight wa… neither to be meaſured by reaſō, nor th… art proſpectiue, was forced to caſt down himſelf in this humility. O the deepe i… chesRom. 11. 23. both of the wiſdom, & knowledge… God, how vnſearchable at his Iudgmen… & his waies paſt finding out? It ſhall he… part therfore of al the children of God although they faile to comprehend the ſ… cr…ts of his vnſearchable wiſedom, … Gods ſe… be…ued.the Apoſtle to be…éeue, wher …umane wi… dom ceaſeth: And not to reiect the tru… (which we know by y^e ſcripture) becau… they a… not able alwayes to diſcry it.

Re.

Truly … hauehave not much to ſay again… thee, not withſtanding it ſeemeth yet y^• between Gods prouidence, & mans free-w… the truth hangeth in doubtful ballance.

Reli.

Well I graunt, it may ſeeme ſo …nto reaſon, I will therefore ſhew theTwo notable reaſons. two Reaſōs, that ſhal conclude the matter; when God▪ had ſet before him y^e wō derfull maſſe, out of which hee formed …eauen and earth, & all thinges that they …oth do containe, we are to bethinke vsus …hether he did behold man, for whom he made the world, and were wel aduiſed that event ſhould ſollow him: if hee …ere not, where is then that foreknowledge appertayning to the wiſedome of God, wherof the Apoſtle ſayth, The foundation2. Tim. 2. 29. of the Lord is ſure and hath this …ale, he knew who were his: And in another place, coupling to the ſame foreknowledge, his own wil: whom ſaith he, …e Lord hath foreknowne them alſo hath …e predeſtinated that they might bee like …e Image of his Son: If vntounto God weeRom. 8. 29. …āt this foreknowledg, which without …oubt, without great wickednes, we cā not deny, becauſe wee ſhould accuſe him … ignorance, and ſo in effect allow …m for no GOD at all, then is the …ncluſion both true & caſie, that albeit …e total of mans demerites were in y^• …ighty eye of his perceiuing that man would apply him-ſelfe to all kind of … demeanor, yet did he find nothing tha… did miſlike, which he ſuffered to hap… for he might hauehave ſtaid his hand in t… good ynough as I ſuppoſe.

My ſecond reaſon cleaueth ſo faſt toThe ſecond reaſon. foreknowledge of God, that they … ſéeme ka…er Couſins, and ſome what n… Wiſemen Of… World.rer; How-beit for as much as it wil g… great light in the matter, as alſo beca… Reaſon may very well play her p… therein, we will not neglect the ſa… Therfore this it is; Conſidering t… the end is the firſt intent of eueryevery ag… or doer, ſo that wiſe men of this wo… do ſeldome take ſuch a thing in h… without an eſpeciall purpoſe what … become thereof, which notwithſtand… in reſpect of God are very blocks and their actions of vile regard: We are d… gētly to obſerue, whether the fame purpoſe, ought much more to be granted the God of al wiſedome in that nota… action of mans creatiō: if it bee graun… (as granted it muſt bee) in as much1 Tim. 19. Epheſ. 1. 4. Rom. 9. 11. …2. the Apoſtle doth warrant it, ſaying, whome wee were choſen when we were Predeſtinate according to … purpoſe of him which worketh all thi… I would faine learne of Sim Sophiſter, whether God hauing appointed our endEfiſient. cauſes. ſure and certaine, in his owne vnchangeable purpoſe, had forgoten the efficyent cauſes of the ſame, or left them to the wild hazard of the dice, or to the gentle curteſie of Lady-fortune. If becauſe we ſéeme to carry the head in our owne hand (which neuer the leſſe are for the moſt part reſtrained of thoſe things wee would) he will ſay, that God had no purpoſe, when yet we were not, what to doe with vsus. What aſſe will not laugh, if he ſhall confeſſe, that, that purpoſe is inuiolable, ſéeing in al earthly cauſes the Lord worketh by meanes? who will not thinke him mad, that ſhall exclude our thoughts, wordes and déedes, from working the end of Gods foreknowledge and purpoſe?

Rea.

But if God in this ſort be the worker of all things, it ſeemeth that all freedome of mans-will is bereft, and truely this is euen as much as to deny man to be a reaſonable creature.

Rel.

Although I hauehave not detractedFreedome of will. from the fréedome of will, ſo much that thou haſt cauſe to gather that conſequent out of my words: yet for my better anſwer to this obiection, I will vſe the helpe of Saint Auguſtine, who ſaith. It is vndoubted that we do will, when we will, and that we doe worke, when we worke; but to be able to will, and to bee able to worke; hee bringeth to paſſe in vsus, of whome it is ſaid, God is he, that worketh in vsus, both to will, and to doe, againe theAuguſt. de grat. & lib. Arbit. cap. 16. ſame Auguſtine, which of vsus (ſaith he) dare avouch that man kind was vtterly ſpoyled of freewill by the ſinne of the firſt man? freedome periſhed in deed through ſinne, but it was that freedome, where with man was created in Paradiſe, free to inioy full righteouſneſſe, and imortallity: for the which the nature of man ſtandeth in needAuguſt. againſt Pelag. 2. epiſt. 1. booke. c 2, of grace, according as the Lord him-ſelfe doth teſtefie, ſaying. if the Sonne doe deliuer you then ſhall you be free indeed, free I meane to liue well, and vprightly: for ſo farre is it off, that freewill did periſh altogether in ſinners, that by the ſame freewill, men doe offend, eſpecially they that take pleaſure in ſin, and which being delighted with ſinne, doe with pleaſure greedily follow their own luſtes: thus much S. Augu.

And now to conclude, if by that fréedomFreedome graunted. of mans will which thou ſaiſt is bereft, by the doctrine of prouidence, thou mean that man doth not euill willingly, and with a plaine conſent and tractableneſſe vntounto Satan the tempter, ſo farre am I from bereauing him of that will, that I affirme, his mind and will to be carried to euil things moſt willingly, according to the ſa… after ſinne, man is free fromPro…. righteouſneſſe: for the more certinty, let a man enter into himſelfe, and conſider, whether it be compulſion, that doth cauſe him to ſinne, or his owne voluntary will, and I doubt not but he ſhal ſoone perceue the whole fault in his owne fréewill: but if by fréeneſſe, thou meane neuer ſo little an ableneſſe of mans own proper ſtrēgth, to performe neuer ſo little good o… euill: I willingly d…e embrace thy obiection; namely, that man hath no fréedome at al,Fredome denied. vnderunder the warrant of all thoſe places of Scripture which I hauehave already cited to that effect, and many other ſuch: for who knoweth not, that if the Lord him-ſelfe, by his only magnificent power ſhould not continually ſupport the world, that we ſhould anon bee made an hotchpatch, and tumbled together into vtter confu…on? how then can we hauehave the face to ſay, that wee hauehave hability to doe this good thing, or that bad thing, be it neuer ſo little, as of our owne proper ſtrength.

On the otherſide, if thou meane the Papiſts deliberating, or choſing frée-wilt, as being authoriſed by God to doe, orAnother kind of of freedom not to doe his owne commandement, who will not laugh at this …? for how can there be frée liberty giuen, and yet a ſharpe reſtraynt? againe, as we hauehave already ſayd, thoſe frée-willians ceaſe not to make the Lord of ſo groſſe and rude vnderſtanding, as if good and euill were all good in the eye of God: but how can that br…bling be true, when the price of righteouſneſſe was faine to be paid, with the blood of Jeſus Chriſt? or how could he call for ſatisfaction, when as by a certen careleſneſſe he had conſented to euell, except he were new …angled according to the manner of men?

Laſt of all, if (I ſay) man were ſo muchNo… this well. Lord of himſelfe, that he had power, to ſhape out his own proper fortune, where is that purpoſe of God become, that we ſpake of eue now? if God held that purpoſe, how can man diſpoſe of him-ſelfe? …or there cannot be a ſetled determination, and purpoſe in God of man, and yet a peculiar power in man to appoint his owne end: if by any colour the purpoſe of God might be denied, which cannot be (for as much as it is written of theInconueniences folwing freewill. childeren being not yet borne, which had done neither good nor euil, The elder ſhal ſerue the yonger, that the purpoſe of God which is according to election might remaine ſure; then would all theſe inconueniences following, fall out againſt God.

1. Firſt and chiefely, that he is careleſſe of man, whome in ſuch ſort he hath giuen vp to himſelfe.

2. Secondly, that God is vaine, & idle: for how can he bee otherwiſe, y^t without any mediation, or requeſt, hath done ſuch things as him-ſelfe in no wiſe regardeth.

3. Thirdly, that the Scripture bearing witneſſe of his tender louelove, and …elouſts ouer his people, is falſe.

4. Fourthly, that he neuer ſent Jeſus Chriſt, to pay the ranſome of our ſinne.

5. Fiftly, that he made not man for his glory, with that Angelicall difference from inſenſible creatures to ſerue him, but rather to obay his owne luſt.

6. Sixtly, that God doth communicate with ſome fellow parteners, as Satan, fortune, or man, in the gouernment of thoſe creatures, that be his owne.

7. Seauenthly, ſo farre as I can perce…ue, we might from hence ſhew preſidents of authority that it is not vnlawfull for vsus to liue careleſſe of God altogether, for if God be careleſſe of vsus, by what meane ſhould he bind vsus to ſo much duty & a legiaunce, as he hath commandſtd by his own word; nay it ſhould ſéeme that we might be careleſſe of ſuch a God as had in none other ſort vouchſafed to prouide for our ſafety: but we know, that all theſe are falſe, and therefore doe finde our ſelues moſt bound to ſerue our God in all thankefulnes & dutiful obedience.

Now Sir, if Maiſter Aduerſary willWorkes foreſeene. caſt about, and come vponupon me with this double blow, according to his cuſtome, and ſay, God foreknew indéed from euerlaſting who were his, and according to y^• ſame fore knowledge, determined of man all after his deſart ſhould requier; & that anſwerable to y^• proportion of his good or euil, God did foreſée and purpoſe to ſhape out his rewards for him, like to the Tailor, that for ſauing of cloath cute…h after the ſcantling of his meaſure: I leaue the Apoſtle to doe my meſſage in his care which otherwiſe may ſéeme to call him open liar, Saying: The purpoſe of GodRom 9. 11. 12. doth examine according to election, not of workes, but of him that calleth: and againeRom. 11. That election is of grace & not of workes. On the other ſide, the ouer ſitting of ſlat contraries doth require, that the reprobates or …ſeaſtes, ſhould be reiected according to the iudgement of God, whom he had prepared for his glory to deſtruction: for ſo doth the Apoſtle witneſſe; beſides this alſo, very reaſon doth inſtructRom. 9. 22 The reprobate predeſtinated. vsus, that as often as y^• Scripture maketh mention of the predeſtination of the choſen ſort, ſo o…t is the predeſtination of the reprobats confirmed: Now therefore to giuegive frée will his packing penny, we may boldly ſay, y^• if frée wil be, Gods prouidence is not: if Gods prouidē ce is, let theſe teſtimonies ſuffice. He is with every little bird y^• falletho… the ground he feedeth theProuidenc… Mat 10. 29. Mat. 6 26. Mat. 10. 50 Luk. 21. 21 Rauens & prouideth for eueryevery foule of the aire: he numbereth the heares of our head, & ſuffereth not on heare to periſh without his wil; he diſpoſeth the lots: he telleth our daies, numbereth our monthes, and limiteth our bounds: which we ſhall not paſſe.Iob. 14. 5. &c. To proue that fréewill is not, I craue none other witneſſe then S. Auguſtine, writing vponupon the 2. Epiſtle of Pelagius chap. 10. I can ſee nothing (ſaith he) in the whole Scriptures giuen by God in commandement to man, to proue that manFreewill confuted by Auguſ. hath freewill, that may not bee found either to be giuen of Gods liberality, or required to ſet forth y^e aſſiſtance of his grace.

Reaſ,

What thinke you then, of the permiſſion, or ſufferance of God, whereby he is ſaid to ſuffer ſinnes.

Rel.

If in ſufferance, wee obſerue alwaies this thing, that God worketh not properly in the wicked, but doth leaue them ouer to Satan, and their own luſts, and yet reſerue his prouidence, that he may not ſtand as an Idle looker on, ſurely wee ought not to reiect it, but if any ſhall goe about, to ſet Gods ſufferance, and his will at oddes, he ſhall looſe his labour, and proue him-ſelfe a foole. Herevpon ſaith M, Beza full well, in his bookeM. … of queſtions and anſwers, if ſufferaunce bee matched againſt willingneſſe, firſt I ſay it is faulſe, and ſecondly vtterly againſt reaſon. That it is falſe is manifeſt by this, y^• if …od ſuffer any thing to be don againſt his …ill, then ſurely is he not God, that is to …a…, almighty: But if he be ſaid to ſuffer … thing, as though hee were retchleſſe, …ow farre are we from the opinion of …picurus? It remayneth then, that looke what he ſu…reth, to be doue, he ſuſte…th i… willingly: herewith doth Saint Auguſtine, …ée ſaying: If we ſuffer ſuchAuguſt. againſt Iulian, lib. 5. cap. 3. … are vnderunder our correction, to doe …ickedly … ou… ſight: We muſt needs bee …hought acceſſaries to their wicked… eſſe, …t God doth permit ſinne to range with…ut meaſure, euen before his eyes, wherin …he were not willing, ſurely hee would …ot ſuffer it in any wiſe, and yet is hee …ghteous notwithſtanding: Now there…e to ſtoppe the mouthes of cauillers, …hich in no ſence will away with this …inction of will and ſufferance, but …on doe giuegive ſentence by a neceſſary …ſequent, that God is the Author of …ne, let vsus ſée whether the Apoſtle doth conclude: what (ſayth he) It God wil… to ſhew his wrath, and to make hisRom. 9. 22. …e… knowne: did ſuſte… with long pa…ce, the veſſels of wrath, prepared to deſtruction: Wee ſée hee made no conſcience to binde, or knitte vppe, the will of GOD and his ſufferance together, as by the circumſtance of the ſame Chapter moſt euidently appeareth: Ergo, they are all cauillers that doe ſay that GOD ſufferethWranglers. any thing that hee hath not willed before hand.

Rea.

Thus haſt thou not onelyonly defended, and very ſufficiently proued the prouidence of God, but alſo as it were by the hayre of the head haled free-will of chooſing, and all idle ſufferance out of dores▪ which in truth hauehave beene the profeſſed enemies to the ſame prouidence of old time: Now therefore I pray you declar… in what ſort GOD doth will ſin, and ye… Gods will …nd puniſhment.Iuſtly puniſh it with that dreadful deſtruction of body and ſoule.

Rel.

Thou knoweſt the will of God is onelyonly the rule of righteouſneſſe from whence it is his good will and pleaſure to bee glorified: for ſo it i… written of Pharao, therefore doth he… Exod. 14. 4.will, or ſuffer it iuſtly, and becauſe that Commandement or Lawe, where by hee limiteth the courſes of righteouſneſſe, is not onelyonly tranſgreſſed, …ut alſo no ſparke of inclination found … man to performe the righteouſ…eſſe therein requyred, therefore …oth the LORD moſt iuſtly puniſh …nne.

Reaſon.

But this is no anſwere, for if …obee the LORD doth appoynt man …o ſinne for his glory ſake, and neuerthe…eſſe reſtrayning the execution thereof▪ …ſe his rodde or correction, ſhall it not …e ſayd, that God is vnrighteous, in that …ee ſtretcheth forth his hand vppon In…ocents.

Reli.

Nay rather, hée that ſhall bu…ly goe about to knitte the LORD …ppe in ſuch a ſtraight, that hee may not …oe with his owne creatures, whichPro. 16. 4. …ée created for him ſelfe, what ſee…eth beſt vntounto his wiſedome, doth …ndoubtedly committe double and vn…peakable abhomination, for (ſayth …e Prophet) Woe vntounto him thatEſay. 45. …. …il contend with his Maker, a brittle …otſherd, of the out-caſt potſherdes of …he earth, ſhall the clay ſay vntounto the pot…r▪ why doſt thou make mee thus, did … handes fayle thee in thy worke? Wo vntounto him, that ſaith to his father, what haſt thou begotten? or to his mother, what haſt thou brought forth? What though the Lord will hauehave mercy? And will harden whome hee will harden? Is there vnrighteouſneſſe with God? God forbid, ſaith the Apoſtle: if this anſwer may not ſeru… ſufficient, take this by the way which we hauehave already handled: The cauſe o… ſinne is reſiant: but the cauſe wherfor… ſinne doth become ſinne, and ſo puniſ▪able muſt bee aſcribed to the ordinanc… of God: now who-ſoeuer doth conte… him-ſelfe with this, doth ſéeke a cauſ… beyond the will of God. Yet wee kno… that darkneſſe doth ſeruice to the light and ſinne (ſo farre as it is willed, or puniſhed by God) doth illuſtrate the glor… of God.

Rea.

In what ſort therefore ma… wee ſay that wicked men do the will o… GOD.

Reli.

If by the name of Will; yea me… Note this well.that thing, that is pleaſing in the ſight … GOD, and conuey the word doe, to… right intent of obteyning, in this ca… truly, the wicked ſort, not onelyonly doe … the will of God: but alſo wholy doe le… away them-ſelues to the will of Sa tan: But if the word will bée taken in that generall ſignification, to wit …or that thing which the LORD …ath willingly purpoſed to bring to …aſſe, and refer the word doe, not to the …ntent and and purpoſe of the doer, but to the euent and ſucceſſe of the matter, …t may in no caſe be doubted, but God …oth excute his will by Satan, and all the wicked company of men: As for example:Examples. it is ſayd that the Cauldaeans were appointed of God to puniſh the diſobedient Iſraelites, theeefore as far as they wrought according to this appointment which was ſecret, and kept cloſe …rom them, they did the will of God: butEzechi. 21. 20. 21. 22. …or as much as the Lord had giuen no outward commandement, or token to them, wherby they might be think themſelues, to doe the worke of God in that …ction, but did rather hearken to South…ayers, and obey their owne cruelty or …uſt, they did not onelyonly not the will of God, but alſo oppoſed them-ſelues full …utte againſt it: for the commandement …ayth, thou ſhalt louelove thy neighbour as …hy ſelfe: thou ſhalt commit no murther, The like wee find of Pharao, purſuingGen. 15. 19. the people of God: of Ioſeph, his bretheren, & many other.

Rea.

I perceiue then the will of GODWill to bee taken two manner of wayes. is to bee taken two manner of wayes, to witte, eyther for that prouident and vnſearchable wiſedome, not alwaies manifeſted to the world, by which al things are moſt meaſurably ordred according to the euerlaſting purpoſe of god; in which ſence we ought to detract nothing from y^• good pleaſure of God, becauſe he ſhould not be omnipotent, if any ſmal ſucceſſe of thinge… ſhould ſal out contrary to the ſame: & alſo that Gods wil is taken for that, which by word or commandement, he hath opened vntounto vsus, the performance wherof is onelyonly good and acceptable in the ſight of God.

Reli.

So it is.

Rea.

But may wee not ſay that GOD commandeth ſinne, ſeeing he doth after … ſort wil it.

Rel.

God forbid: it is the moſt horrible o… Sinne not commanded though willed.al blaſphemies: neither is the conſequēc… good, God willeth althings, therefore h… alloweth al things: for he willeth many things, which he doth ſuffer, not becauſe ſimply he doth alow of them, but after … …ertain manner: for ſo far as he ſuffereth ſo far doth he allow & wil them: but ſo far as he hath reſpect to the Inſtrument… whoſe actions they are, ſo farr doth hee diſallow and puniſh them.

Therefore although we do faithfully hold, and beleeue according as we are taught, in the confeſſion of Chriſtian fayth, that God the father almighty willeth all thinges, and by his power bringeth all thinges to paſſe, euen as hee willeth them, yet doth it not follow that hée is the author of ſinne, delighted with in… quity: or that Satan, & men doing euill, do obey God, in that they do euil, or that they do the will of God, in that they doe euil, & therefore are not to be blamed: for beſides that, wicked men doe the wil of God, that is to ſay, thoſe things that are ordayned from euerlaſting, they for the moſt part do their own worke, that is to ſay, that which they hauehave a will in them-ſelues and moſt greedy appetite to doe, as wee hauehave oftentimes ſaid already.

Re.

I perceiue your meaning neuertheles y^• it is a ſtrange purpoſe or wil whoſe effects are not appliable: and familiarly conſenting there-vntounto: yet doe not the effects of Gods Ordinance méet well in that ſecret purpoſe of God: for why? thePurpoſe & effects. ſecret ordinance comprehēdeth al things without exception: and the Commandement doth as it were, countermand all euill, and ſimply allow of none, ſau… good things only: Therefore I would hauehave you, by ſome example, to make theſe things more capable, which yet do rather ſeeme to make God contrary to him-ſelfe, then otherwiſe.

Rel.

I will therfore take the caſe toGod like to a King. ſtand thus: A King conſulting with himſelfe, and purpoſing to declare his honor, and authority, enacteth ſuch lawes, and ſtatutes, as the beſt induſtry of his ſubiects, ſhall not be able to obſerue: pretending neuertheleſſe, of his owne eſpecial grace, to be fauorable, or mercifull to ſome, and vppon the rem…nt of tranſgreſſors, to execute Juſtice: From this head-ſpring, to witte, the honour of th… King: doe diſtill two ſtreames, the on… for his beloued ſubiects to drink at, and …iue, the other for the malignant, to brown themſelues in: the courſes of theſ… two being made contrary in effect, as i… reſpect of their property, by him that had the lawe in his hand, be neuertheleſſe made faſt in the boſome of the fountaine, and doe méete together againe, together in the vttermoſt point, to wit, the honor of a King, as a Bée going out empty, doth returne laden with honny to her Hiue: for as the King without lawes, had bin no King, nor his dignity diſcerned: ſo by his lawes his honor is become twofould as in puniſhing …home he liſte, and in ſhewing mercy on whom he will; ſo that his mercy and iuſtice (if he had had no lawes, or if his lawes had béene capable to all his people) that had neuer béene knowne, are two notable pillors of his Kingdome to his onelyonly honor; and the great dread and admyration of his ſubfectes, Aſſure thy ſelfe, y^• ſo it is in that wonderfull ordinance of the almighty, whoſe purpoſe is not of election and reprobation,Note. nor of any other ſucceſſe of common things (which not withſtanding he ordereth as is ſaid already) ſo much, as of his owne glory, according to the ſaying. For my glory I created, formed,Eſay. 43. 7. and made man. This thiug the heauenly wiſdome of God did perceaue might come to paſſe moſt conueniently by ſuch a preſcription, as ſhould enforce the like effects to the law aforeſaid (though in the firſt man his iuſtice is very well defended,) yet note, alwaies betwéene the purpoſe going before the law (which is the glory of GOD) and the effects of the law (which are his mercy andNo repugnancy in God. iuſtice) is no repugnancy, but one pure and peaceable agréement, for the law condemning all men in the purpoſe of GOD, doth ſhew forth his glory, in the moſt liuely colours ofA worldly obiection. mercy, and iuſtice, according to his firſt intent.

Rea.

What ſhall wee ſay then? man is not puniſhed for his due deſart, but for the glory of GOD: and who, I pray you, ſhall not accoumpt him mad, that will ſtrike a horſe beeing teathered, becauſe hee doth not feed at liberty.

Rel.

Nay rather who ſhall not accompt him more then twiſe beſides him-ſelfe,Excuſe takē from man. that doth reſemble the image of God, to a brute beaſt? Did not God giuegive vntounto man vnderſtanding, will and ableneſſe … ſtand vpright, till ſuch time as he wilfully for went it, aſ well as hee gaue him a commandement? beſides this, although the horſe vſing lawfully, as in reſpect of him-ſelfe (hauing kind, his natnrall miſtres, for his warrant) the benefit of his teacher, ſo that al fault (if faults may be here rehearſed,) reſteth in the teatherer, and none in the teathered either for féeding, or not féeding; what of this? to whome had GOD done iniury, if he had tyed him to that teather? that he were as inſenſible as a blocke? is not he the true, and onelyonly owner of all things? If he be, to whome is hee bound, that he may not vſe the benifit of his wil▪ without controwlment? ſhall the pot ſay to the potter, why haſt thou made mee thus? thus doſt thou ſée the fal…hod of Simylies, whereby the wily wranglers of the world, doe often times proue them-ſelues more doultiſh, then doultes, meaſuring GOD with earthly things, and his wiſdome by their owne folly.

Moreouer I pray you, where is that fine fellow that wil not confeſſe himſelfe a ſinner … if hee bee a ſinner, why is he captious, as though he were pure andNo man har…w ong at Gods hand. vnſpotted? what wrong is offered vntounto him, if he be caſt into the bottom of hell? let me ſée the braue fréewillian, ſt…ding moſt vponupon the pantaples of ſupereroation, that is not glad rather to ride at this anker, when hee perceueth the ſeas of death ready to cloſe him (God is righteous,Note this in the Papiſts. I am a wreatched ſinner, and were there no deſert aboue mine, the torments of hell ſhould be mine inheritance) then to affirme, that by the liberty of debating on the ends of good and euill, hee hath purchaſed heauen by his owe worthineſſe.

Rea.

Well I perceaue the miſtery of the matter reſteth in Adam our firſt parent, whoſe fault doth heape the iudgments of God vponupon his poſterity: but how can itAdam. ſtand with Gods iuſtice, to puniſh all men for one mans fault?

Reli.

Urily and this exception alſo might hauehave ſome good colour, if any man being free of his owne fault, could proue, the burden of another mans to be caſt… au…we…ed. on his ſhoulders: but alaſſe why ſhould any man complayne of wrong, knowing him-ſelfe guilty of ſo many euiles, as are …owched in his owne nature: doth it not fare (ſaith M. Caluin) with ſuch fellowes, as with the…es which being led to the gallowes, doe exclame of the iud…e? yes …: but if they would conſider how miſerable the comfort is, that is borrowed of that poore reueng, they would occupy their heads, about their owne deſarts which doe make them before God alwaies … of euill deſeruing more then bodily death, and for the moſt part, to bee iuſtly condemned of the world, and not vſe that malip…r…neſſe, eſpecially finding therein no remedy. The concluſion is this, and my aduiſe alſo, that ſuch as doe Ande them-ſelues greeued in Adam, ſéeks hence forth to be well pleaſed in Chriſt.

Reaſ.

Surely I hauehave nothing to ſay againſt thee, therefore I come yet backe to that, which thou haſt partly anſwered: for why? I cannot be ſatiſfied in this wonderfull miſtery, of Gods ſea…ret, and reucaled will; therefore I pray you to enlighten mee once againe, with ſome example more familar, then that other.

Reli.

Néeds muſt he wonder and to no purpoſe, that goeth about to be as wiſe as God, and to vnderunder ſtand all the ſeacrets of his will (ſaith the Apoſtle) are paſt finding out, but againe take the caſe toAn example of gods prouidence ſtand thus; the Lord that diſpoſeth of all things in their appointed ſeaſons putteth the partridge into the marlins foote, the pretty bird, into the fowlers ſnare, ſetteth the oxe foot vponupon the ſilly worme, bringeth the ſwelling waters out of their channels to the ſtore-houſe of the poore prouident Ant, the little fiſh into the net, the lambe to the ſlaughter-houſe, the lion to the hunters hand, and man for his due deſart oftentimes to a ſharpe and ſodden death: this God in his righteous iudgement, hath pre-ordayned my ſonne to die, amideſt the mercileſſe waues of the ſea.

But for as much as nature the enemy to wiſdome, doth not ſuffer me to yéeld vp mine intereſt, to the ordinance of God (which you muſt ſuppoſe, according to ſome extraordinary manner is diſcloſed vntounto mee) I ſay vntounto him, ſonne aſſure thy ſelfe that no action in this world ſhall diſcontinew my fauour and good will towards thée. Againe, I make thée LORD, of my whole reuenewes, vſe all that I hauehave, or may procure for thée; ſo that in conſideration hereof, thou wilt graunt me thy true and faithfull alegeaunce in this onelyonly point; depart not thy natiue country, and I craue no more: for at what time ſo euer, thou ſhalt commit thy ſelfe vntounto ſayle and maſt, thou dieſt the death, there is no remedy; thus ſtandeth thy ſafty, thus thy perill, thus my hearty requeſt, and thus I leaue thée. Well, this my ſonne, according to the maner of men, hauing a body at home, and a mind elſe where, then where it ſhould be, neither making conſcience of my great liberallity, commandement, nor any other good deſert, nor yet reſpecting the daunger of his owne perſon, like a man led away with nouelties, and the try: all of ſtrange aduentures, rather then eſtéeming an honeſt life, and the duty o… of a child (committeth him-ſelfe; to the ſafe conduct of will, that idle and deſperate loadſman, and at laſt after many tormoyles, is forced to fiſh in the déepes without his boat, like as before I had tould him, ſhall not the man ſéeme to do me iniury, that ſhall reproue me, for this fault of my ſonne, who eueryevery way ſo well, and fatherly intreated him as became me?

Thus much I compare with the Lord of Heauen, who created man Lord of the whole Earth, ſaue that hee debard him the trée in the midſt of the garden. But if thou hapily ſay that all this is not to the purpoſe, becauſe in the affaires of this proceſſe, I hauehave concealed no ſeacret but imparted my whole purpoſe to my ſonne: well I graunt, let vsus now therfore procéed, euen here the caſe is altered, let it be graunted alſo, that before I begat my ſonne, I ſaw the ſequell of this matter: howbeit ſith it concerned my will, I would not onelyonly obſerue mine owne pleaſure in that behalfe, but alſo giuegive my willing conſent to his fatall deſteny. I pray you in this caſe, who ſhall let me to doe the thing that pleaſeth me? what hath my ſonne to ſay againſt me, or if hee ſay, and repine neuer ſo much, is it not folly to kicke againſt the pricke? but if I, in the eye of reaſon, may ſéeme ſomewhat faulty, or cruell in this action, yet note that which is moſt vnrighteous in man, is alwaies moſt righteous in the Lord of heauen, with whom no creature doth ſtand in compariſon: Moreouer, ſuppoſe that I ſée a blind manAnother example. taking a direct courſe vntounto a daungerous caue, and before his fall, I ſtep vntounto him and ſay, father beware, and turne the …acke, for euen here at hand is ſuch a per…ill, as threateneth thy death: the man, not onelyonly blind of body, but of mind lame alſo, not regarding my friendly admonition, tumbleth downe headlong, and doth breake his necke. Is it ſtrange to …ée him burnt, that will not come out of the fire? but now to the matter, let it be graunted, that I ſet him in that way, foreſeeing his fall, ſhall he not therefore be in…ited of his owne death.

Reaſ.

Surely, but here canſt thou not goe cleare away without touch, for hadſt thou not ſet the blind man in that way, he might right well hauehave eſcaped that miſfortune. The like may bee ſayd of thy Sonne alſo.

Reli.

Did I not tell thée that no creature is to be compared with God? who if he ſhould damne the whole world, ſetting the deſert of Jeſus Chriſt apart were neuertheleſſe righteous? true it is, if I had neuer be gotten my ſonne, he had neuer bin drowned. But the cauſe ſtanding vpright as I left it, canſt thou ſhew any reaſon, why I ſhould not be get him, ſéeing it was my will? euen ſo, if God had neuer made man, doubtles it had bin long ere man had ſinned: but in thoſe things, which we know the Lord, hath iuſtly done for his owne glory ſake let vsus be content and leaue off theſe toviſh obiections, of iffes, and ands, for what pretend we thereby, but to ſet the Lord to Schoole, and to take him forth a leſſon of our owne mother wit? who (God knoweth)Iffes and ands to be left. hath much leſſe néed thereof, then the ſea to borrow ſome ſmall ſtreame of water from poore brookes, which the Sunne hath dried vp.

Rea.

Wel then, conſidering that nothing in the whole world commeth to paſſe raſhly, or caſually, but according to the will of God, that is to ſay, his ordinaunce, may it be ſaid that God hath appointed any thing that hee miſliketh, where-vponupon hee doth take occaſion to miniſter iuſtice?

Rel.

Doubtleſſe it muſt be graunted,God appoynted all things willingly. that whatſoeuer God hath appointed is appointed altogether willingly, and without miſliking, otherwiſe might he ſéeme variable or to be canſtrained to wil thoſe things that he willeth: but ſtay thy ſelfe, herein appeareth the wonderful wiſdom of God: for thoſe▪ things that in their owne proper nature are naught, hauehave yet before him great reſpect of goodneſſe, wherbySinne hath a reſpect of goodneſſe. it commeth to paſſe, that ſinne exac…ing at the hand of God, the due execution of iuſtice, in reſpect of his ordinauncei, is no ſinne, but righteouſneſſe …ather?

Rea.

How proue you that?

Reli.

Is it not proofe enough, to proue that it concerneth his endleſſe glory? if it(A) …, remember thy ſelfe what I hauehave ſaid already thereof before, this directory in the margeant, ſhal bring thee to the place, Moreouer we may proue it thus, God ſa…eth his choſen by the death of his ſonne, …r ſo is it written in the Epiſtle of Paul to the Epheſians: But God ſhouldEph. 1. 5. 6. hauehave ſaued no man in his ſonne, if there had béene no ſinne, but rather the Holy Ghoſt might hauehave tould a lye; Ergo, in reſpect of Gods ordinaunce it is iuſt that man is a ſinner.

Againe, it is greatly to the glory of God, that he ſheweth mercy to ſinnere: but if ſinne had not beene, man ſhould hauehave néeded no mercy: Ergo in reſpect of Gods glory, it is good that man is wicked; finally, it is greatly to the glory of God, that he doth iuſtlye puniſh ſinne but if there had béene no ſinne at all, his iuſtice had béene vtterly vnknowne o… obſcured, Ergo in reſpect of GODS glory, it is neceſſary that ſinne be in th… world.

Reaſ.

By this reckoning wilt thou mak… ſinne no ſinne.

Reli.

Not before it ceaſeth to offen… God in the breach of his commaundement. But I ſay yea, and that well aduiſed, that in reſpect of the glory … God it is good that ſin ſhould be, and better thē good (if better may be) as it is wr… tenEx. 14. 4. 17 in Exodus. I will harden Pharao … heart, and hee ſhall follow after you, an… I will be glorified in Pharao and in all hisExo. 9. 16. hoaſt and in his Chariots and horſemen. Neuertheleſſe I aſſure thée that ſinne of the owne nature is ſo monſtrous, that itGen 7. 20. deſerueth ſome name more odious then ſinne, becauſe the de…ilements thereof hauehave in ſuch wiſe beſpotted the nature of man, that the ſluces of Heauen are opened thereby, and the iudgements of God daily powred down vponupon vsus, which is well verified in that generall ouerflowing of the world.

Reaſ.

But if ſinne be good in reſpect ofThe difference of good and euill. God, whoſe glory is wrought, and euill in reſpect of the workes, how commeth the difference.

Reli.

How oft ſhall I anſwer this queſtion? thou knoweſt, that mans or… …nall nature was ſound, whereof could … …me none but ſound frute, but after …hat nature was corrupted by wilfull …ſobedience, from thence muſt néedes …ring the rotten frute of ſinne: ſo that the difference came by the wil of man …d ſo conſequently reſteth in man, till …h time as hee is regenerated, being …en by imputation clothed with the …ghteouſneſſe of Chriſt.

Rea.

But God him-ſelfe the ſoueraigneObiection againſt the Apoſtle Paule. worke maſter is ſaid to worke all things Ergo, he worketh ſinne.

Rel.

If by the ſame worke of his, thou meane his almighty power, that vphou… deth the world, and all things there in without which nothing can containe i… ſelfe, I graunt that euill things are wrought by God, that is to ſay mediatly or by the ſame power, becauſe no thought of wickedneſſe, much leſſe any execrable action could burſt out if he would take away that life and ſtrenght that he lendet… men, which preſume to play the rebell… againſt him: but if by the working … ſinne, thou doſt ſuppoſe the hand of God to be imediately ſtretched forth, to per forme any wicked action, or elſe that ſinne happeneth by his together working with ſinnefull inſtruments: firſt I den… the conſequence for it is faulſe: and ſ… condly I condemne it for the moſt wicked of all blaſphemies: my reaſon is this the name of ſinne cannot agrée with GOD, who is the ſoueraigne root… Anſwer.of all righteouſneſſe: the nature of ſinne cannot once lay hould thereof, becauſe it is vnchangeable, nor yet can the paine of ſinne touch that thing, that is not faulty: and yet of neceſſity ſhould all theſe follow againſt God, laying his hand to iniquity: therefore I conclude thus, the name, the nature, nor the paine of ſinne, are any thing accidentall to the nature of God, but all theſe thrée are bred, foſtered, and found in the ſoule and fleſh of man: Ergo man is not the inſtrument ſo much as the cauſe of ſinne.

Reaſ.

It ſeemeth therefore that the worke of the inſtrument, and the worke of God vſing the inſtrument goe not alwaies ioyntly together.

Reli.

This doubtleſſe is very true, for the worke that ſhould alwaies beThe worke of man oft times made double. …t one in the opened will of GOD is often times made two-fould by the worker: yet GOD by his power working in all ahings, worketh alwaies well, and is glorified, and the iuſtruments not regarding his commandements, but obeying their owne luſtes, …oe alwaies worke ill, and are iuſtly puniſhed.

Reaſ.

Yet of the contrary part I thinke,Workes euer ſingle. that the worke of God in the good, and the worke of the good by vertue of the Holy Spirit, which worketh in them, are euer one.

Rel.

I graunt it, for ſo farre doe they worke together, that God doth worke in them to will, and performe the good workes of the Holy Ghoſt, and they for the aſſurance of their well working, doe guide them-ſelues by the light of his word. So then maiſt thou perceiue that although by Satan, and the moſt wicked men, the iuſt decrées and councels of God are executed, yet are they thereof for the moſt part ignorant, and becauſe they obay them-ſelues, not regarding the will of God, their workes are madeExamples of ſingle and doble workes. dooble. Of this we hauehave ſpoken ſome what before by the example of Ioſeph, his bretheren. Pharao, and the Caloées puniſhing the diſobedient Iſraelites: but that notable example of our Sauiour Jeſus Chriſt, doth yet make it more euident to our vnderſtanding, Chriſt was the good inſtrument, out of whome GodColo. 2. 13. wrought the pardon of our tranſgreſſion▪ who before lay faſt bound vnderunder ſi…nne;Mat. 26. 39. This inſtrument at all times, and in all things, ſhewed himſelfe obedient to the will of his father, whereby it is manifeſt that he alwayes wrought wel with him; but on the other ſide, what bloudy butchers were the Jewes, which in themſelues1 Pet. 1. 19. did cauſe the worke of God to become double.

Chriſt being a pure innocent, without one ſpot of ſinne, and ſuch a one as neuer gaue offence did they crucifie, not regarding any thing that had bene told them by the Prophets.

Wherby neuer the leſſe it came to paſſe that GOD performing that thing byActs, 4. 27. 28. them, which before all worlds he had appointed to be done, did excéeding mercifull and well, and they yeelding to theyr owne tyranny committed the moſt horrible murder that euer was.The fall of Adam c… through God▪ forſaking.

Rea.

Well then to make an end of prouidēce, tell me I pray, whereto ſhal we aſcribe y^• fal of the firſt man? I mean whether to Gods enforcing, or to his for ſaking.

Reli.

Doubleſſe his falling from God ought ſimply to bee imputed to Gods for ſaking: for if we ſay that GOD did Inforce him by any compulſion, I cannot perceiue, but we burthen him with a maruaylous vntruth, notwithſtanding it is alwayes graunted, that the ſame fall came by the neceſſity of Gods appointment,Mat. 25. 34. but for as much as that neceſſity, tooke not away his owne willingneſſe, it ſhall neuer excuſe him. So that here in rightly appeareth the wonderfull wiſedome of God, who deriuing his gloryThe wiſedom of God. (determined off before) from the groſeſt of all faults, is neyther the cauſe thereof properly, nor doth ſuffer it to come to paſſe beſides his ordinance: He allowed ſo much as came from him-ſelfe, ſaying, Loe it is good: but now forſaking the good, it became euill for want of God: and in the ſame forſaking God ſuffered (yet willingly) corruption to créepe vnderunder his ordinance, in ſuch wiſe into the nature of man, that his owne will became the cauſe of that euill act of eating that forbidden fruite.

Rea.

But why did GOD forſake him, beeing righteous in his owne ſight.

Rel.

Nay, rather would I hauehave thée to ſhew ſom reaſon, that ſhould moue God not to forſake him, whome he knew it moſt expedient to leaue.

Rea.

Here agayne doſt thou allude to the glory of God, but if I might ſtill follow the appetite of reaſon, I ſhould demand why God why ſuch praepoſterous meanes doth exact his glory at the hands of his poore creatures.

Reli.

Truly thou maiſt, but I wil take a day to anſwer thée, till ſuch time as the Lord hath called me to ſit in commiſſion about the affayres of his ſecret councell, yet if I ſay he wil be ſo glorified, becauſeRom. 9. 18. it his owne will, what then? Is ther anyMr. Caluin in his bock of offences. fault? But take the words of Maiſter Caluin for thine anſwer in this caſe, who ſaith thus.

The firſt man fel becauſe the LORD did iudge it expedient, why hee ſo iudged, is vnkowne to vsus: Yet certayne he ſo iudged, for no other reaſon but becauſe hee ſawe that therby the glory of his name ſhould moſt worthily bee ſette forth, when thou heareſt therefore mention made of the glory of God, there thinke of his righteouſneſſe, for it muſt bee righteous that deſerueth praiſe, and let vsus rather behold an euident cauſe of damnation, in the corrupt nature of mankind, which is nearer to vsus; then ſeeke for a hidden and vtterly incomprehenſible cauſe thereof in the ſecret councell of God, which is further from vsus: and let it not greene vsus ſo farre to ſubmit our wit to the vnmeaſurable wiſedome of God, that it may yeald in many ſecrets of his, for of thoſe thinges which is neyther granted, nor lawful to hauehave knowledge, Ignorance is well learned, and the coueting of knowledge a méere kinde of madneſſe.

Rea.

Well let vsus ſtay here, concerning the prouidence of God, from which I perceaue nothing can be excluded, and therfore in vaine doe men babble of Fortune, Chance, and other caſuall Goddeſſes; now therefore let vsus proceed to the predeſtination of God, of which thou oft haſt ſpoken in this treatiſe of Prouidence, and firſt of all I would hauehave thee deſcribe vntounto me what predeſtination is.

Reli.

Truly the prouidence of God conſidered, in that generall ſignification,Predeſtination what it is. that is to ſay in the foreknowing, or deyning, ordering, and ending all manner of things, ſo farre as yet I vnderſtand, doth comprehend the predeſtination of God, and is one ſelfe-ſame-thing therewith: yet becauſe predeſtination may bee reſtrayned, in a more particular property, namely to Gods ordering and diſpoſingRom. 8. 29. of mankind, thus it may bee defined.

Predeſtination is the euerlaſting, and vnchangeable decree of the almighty, which going before all cauſes, draweth man to his appointed end, that is eyther in Chriſt to ſaluation, or elſe in Adam to condemnation, & the endleſſe torments of hell.

Rea.

And what is election? not the ſame thing?

Rel.

No, for that is vtterly vnpoſſible,Election what it is. and againſt all conueniency of Reaſon, becauſe the Reprobate is predeſtinate,Rom. 9. 22. Iud. 1. 4. as wel as the Elect, as witneſſeth Saint Iude, but we cannot ſay, that the Reprobrate or offcaſt is elected: therefore Election is peculiar to the good, beeing choſen out of the totall number, and predeſtination common to the good, and the bad.The mercy of God, the cauſe of election.

Rea.

But it ſeemeth, that before election goeth the mercy of God, whereby the clect are ſaued: and then doth the nature of contraryes requyre, that the hatred or wrath of God, ſhould be the cauſe that the damned, are damned: Ergo, God damneth ſome, not for their ſins, but becauſe he doth hate them.

Reli.

If to the word hatred, or wrath, thou had'ſt put this litlle word Iuſt (whereby God in Juſtice might hauehave caſt off the ofcaſts, who neuer doth vniuſtly) I would hauehave liked wel of thy conſequent. But I pray you where did youSinne the cauſe of damnation. euer find, that God hated man except it were for ſin? ſhew me the place and then will wee conclude againſt him, that hee hateth his owne worke: In the meane time, content thy ſelfe with that which we hauehave already ſpoken touching this matter.

Rea.

Well: but it may ſeeme a hard and cruel caſe that ſom ſhould be appointed to damnation, although GOD may iuſtly do it for his glory ſake.

Rel.

I will not ſée thy folly in theſeCruelty and Iuſtice. two words Cruel, and yet Iuſt. But yet I ſay it may ſeem a caſe more harder, if God could bee found in the fault of reprobation, whereaf he is but the fayling cauſe, the efficient beeing grounded in man him-ſelfe. And if we may ſpeake of the handneſſe of cauſes, it ſéemeth much more harder on Gods behalfe, that if hee could be proued the cauſe of tranſgreſſion (which is vtterly vnpoſſible) that ye… he may not vſe his pleaſure with his owne creatures.

Rea.

But what ſay you to theſe generall 1 Tim. 2. 4. 1 Pet. 3. 9.ſentences, God would hauehave All men ſaued, God would hauehave all men come to repentance, that they might not periſh?

Reli.

You muſt conſtrue of the word. All, in that place, not after the letter: or elſe auouch to the face of GOD, that ſome are damned whether hée will or not, therefore (All) hath relationThe word All. here to all ſorts of men, in degrée and calling, that is to ſay, Princes, Magiſtrates, Gentlemen, Bondmen, Artificers, and ſuch other, aſwell of the Iewes, as of the Gentiles: thus doubtleſſe wee muſt expound the word All. For GOD forbid that the Doctrine of predeſtination, the very ground-worke of ſaluation, ſhould hang in ſuſpence for a few texts that pretend outwardly a kind of repugnancy: if this will not ſuffice, then credit the Apoſtle ſaying according to the whole courſe of Scripture: Though the childrenRom. 9 27. of Iſrael were as the ſand of the ſea, yet ſhall but a remnant bee ſaued, Many are called, but few are choſen, few enter at the ſtraight gate.

Rea.

Truly, thou compelleſt me to yeald vntounto thee in this point, for if God would not hauehave ſome damned, they ſhould in no wiſe be damned, that be damned: But here againe ariſeth a doubt which troubleth many: If that neceſſity of things be prefixed by the eternall decreement, it is ſuperfluousThe vnrea▪ ſo …ble cbiection of Worldlings. and a mere kinde of madneſſe to teach what eueryevery mans duty is: for why: all the teaching, and preaching in the world, ſhal not alter the leaſt lot of Gods determination.

Reli.

Indeed this is the onelyonly refuge whereto the fexe flyeth, being hunted from eueryevery other haunt: But the Lord wil one day vnkennel him, when his caſe & carkaſſe both, ſhal pay tribute to the father of foxes, if meane whiles hee offer not to God a more acceptable ſacrifice: Theſe be they that make ſhip wracke of all religion, although ſome whiles vnderunder the vayle thereof, they would ſeeme for credit ſake, to hauehave ſom little ſmack of y^• feare of God: But they which bée the children of God, eyther know or will know, yea & the wicked alſo ſhal know, not only, that in that ſecurity which they would draw from hence, reſteth the vtter contempt of Chriſt, and of all true knowledge of God, but alſo that doctrineDoctrine vnderunder ſeruant. is appointed as an vnderunder ſeruant to the Lord, whereby he doth iuſtly accompliſh that, which he had purpoſed touching his elect, as alſo the reprobate.

Therfore I pray you what is the drift of this obiection other then that the Lord ſhould leaue al things at large, according to the opinion of Epicure, & the Papiſt, to a careleſſe happening, whereby man for his behoof, pauſing vponupon his owne wayes, might addreſſe himſelfe, as of his owne proper power, to will and worke theſe things, that ſhould win Saluation? truly if they were called together among them al, is not one to be found, that can cleare him-ſelfe of this intent.

Therfore it is manifeſt, that they are not enemies alone to the predeſtination of God, according to whoſe foreknowledge a couenable neceſſity … things is preſcribed, as beſt beſéeme… his omnipotency: but alſo that they ar… Doctrine leaueth the reprobate vvithout excuſe.angry with frée iuſtification, where-vponupon they will eyther conuey them▪ſelues in to the place of Chriſt, or at leaſt become aſſiſtant in his office.

But why ſhould the reprobate him ſelfe accompt Doctrine vnneceſſary, … beit he will not yéeld himſelfe obedient is he not therby left vtterly without excuſe before the Lord?

Moreouer it is commanded to b… ſette before the reprobate, not becauſe it might intercept that thing that God hath purpoſed of him, but that by … The grace of ſecret election.incredulity, it ſhould appeare and b… more manifeſt, how forceable the grace of ſecret election is: for wherein m… the ſame more euidently be perceiue then when in one ſelfe ſame doctrine and in one ſelf ſame calling, there ſhould fall out among theſe men ſondry or ſe… rall effects, one reuerently to imbrace another ſtubbornely to ſkorne and … ▪iect it: and the third ſort, to ſtand a lukewarme and careleſſe quandra… as if to imbrace it, or not to imbrace were all one thing: Againe there is no doubt, as it pierceth the hearts of the choſen, and doth lead them as it were by the hand to conformity of life, whereby to their great comfort, they ſeale vp to theyr conſciences theyr election: euen ſo …t ſtriketh the hearts of the wicked, and oftentimes doth reſtrayne their mali…artneſſe, albeit it proceed from the mouth of a man: laſt of all, if thoſe vnreaſonable Cauillers could be content …o take any light at the hands of the godly, the Apoſtles ſhould ſoone perſwade them, how neceſſary doctrine is. TheyThe Apoſtles. …reached predeſtination, and the free election of God, notwithſtanding they were well aſſured, that not only them…elues, but all that were predeſtinate to …e, were in no caſe remoueable from the eſtate of ſaluation.

They knew alſo on the contrary part, that the reprobates by no induſtry could …rit the kingdome of God: and al…it before theyr faces, whole thou…ndes were caught with this lime…wigge of Sathan, and did tipple them…elues with the drunkenneſſe of diueliſh …curity; yet I ſay were the Apoſtles neuer the colder, to walke in theyr duties and offices, but painfully, and wi… all diligent care and endeauor, to they continuall danger, and at laſt with the loſſe of theyr liues, diſcharged them ſelues therof.

Rea.

But wiſe men of this world, doWiſe men of the World. plainly affirme, that the Doctrine of predeſtination, ought not to bee taught, or at leaſt is not conuenient to be taught before common people, becauſe they are not able to comprehend it.

Reli.

But if wiſe men of the world were any thing wiſe in the wiſedome … GOD, this would be farre from they thoughts, and twiſe ſo farre from they tongues. For I pray you what d… moue the Lord to reueale the ſame do… ▪trine, ſo plentifully in his word? Some intent of ſecreſie? Shall the ſunne neu… ſhine becauſe all are not able to comprehend it with their bodily eyes? Let t… ſame wiſe men gatze vponupon the ground for that is the treaſory of their vnde ſtanding: they cannot perceiue how o… little graſſe groweth, and ſhall the ear… therefore not yeeld her increaſe as … Lord doth appoint? If hidden and ſec… cauſes may lawfully preuent common profits, then ſhall it behoue vsus to waxe more ſharpe ſighted then men, or ſhortly …o hauehave another world.

Thoſe men whatſoeuer they pretend hauehave ſmall regard of Gods true ſeruice …r honour: therfore is there no cauſe that the truth of GOD ſhould bee diſſembled for theyr number or authority, be it neuer ſo great.

I remember that Saint Auguſtine Auguſtine his anſvver to the enemies of predeſtination. Chap. 15.…ath ſayd full well to the matter. This Doctrine being heard (ſayth he) ſom are …urned into a ſluggiſh heauineſſe and …lowneſſe, and beeing readily bent to fall from labour vntounto wantonneſſe, do go after their luſts: muſt therefore that be thought falſe, which is ſaid of the foreknowledge of God? And will we not alſo ſpeake, that which the Scripture being witneſſe, it is lawful to ſpeake? by likelyhood we are affraid, leaſt he ſhould bee offended which cannot take it, and are not affraid, leaſt we holding our tongues, that hee which can take the truth ſhould bee deceiued with …alſhood. Therefore as true religion is to be taught, that GOD may be truly worſhipped, ſo is the Doctrine of predeſtination, that hee which hath eares to heare of the grace of GOD, may glory in GOD, and not in himſelfe.

Rea.

But hauehave the children of GOD any aſſurance in this world of their election?

Reli.

Yea verily, for from whence commeth Repentance and the fruits thereof, but from Regeneration? of the faith of Chriſt, but this fayth is giuen to the elect only, Ergo, only the elect do repent and giuegive them-ſelues to obey the commandement of God, The reſt hauehave not … will to thinke a good thought, much leſſ… Meanes for a man to know his election.to do any good, and leaſt of all to continue in weldoing: for that is alſo a peculiar marke in election: Therefore letn… man climbe vp to the cloudes, to ſearch whether hée bee inrolled in the ſecret councell of GOD, nor buſie himſelfe with many curious ſpeculation… below▪ but let him that would be aſſured or Saluation enter into him-ſelfe and conſider how his faith doth ſtand i… Chriſt, in whoſe blood if he finde it v… …ith ſuffi…th to iuſ…ifie.fayned, there-vppon let him reſt, wrapping his whole bodie and ſoule vnderunder his promiſes.Iob. 3. 15.

This thing can no man truly bring to paſſe, exept his name be written in the booke of life.

Rea.

What▪ if a man feele not in himſelfeRom. 9. 33. theſe teſtimonies, ſhould hee therefore diſpayre of ſaluation.

Rel.

GOD forbid, let ſuch men rather bée ſent to the word preached and ſacraments, whereby the grace of election may worke theſe teſtimonies in them: and no doubt, thoſe whome the LORD hath foreknowne in his good time, he will call home into his houſholdGod calleth his children of fayth.

For wee know as hee hath predeſtinated of his owne vnſpeakable mercy, whome hée would, ſo alſo hee calleth them at ſuch ſeuerall ſeaſons, as hee will: Some early, and ſomeRom. 8. 30. Math. 20. 2 3. 4. 5. 6 late, as it is written in the Goſpell of the laborers that were called into the Uineyard.

Rea.

But by that parrable may wicked men take encouragement to neglecte the time of calling, becauſe they that were called in the laſt houre were accepted & rewarded equally with thoſe which came in the firſt houre of the day.

Reli.

Nay, let me ſhew which of thoſe laborers being once called, did refuſe to come: it ſéemeth rather to me, that hereby they ſhould learne without delay to turne vntounto the Lord, hearing his voyce, for we muſt conſider that he is not bound…an …to …t the …. to vsus, but we vntounto him, therefore the wiſeſt councell, that I can giuegive, is that wee take héed betimes, and lay hold when hée offereth himſelfe, leaſt our ſins do make ſeperation, betwéene him and vsus: for i… thorough our negligence we ouerſlippe the day of health, we cannot recouer it afterwards although wée ſéeke it with teares, which we find truly verified in the fooliſh Virgins, rich Glutton, and manyMath. 25. 13. Math. 27. 3. other: Therefore he that thinketh himſelfe in moſt ſecurity, and ſayth my age is not yet fitte who am but young, or my buſineſſe is not paſt, which is great, I will turne to the Lord at ſome better leaſure: let him remember that all fleſ… is as graſſe of the field, & hath no charter for one minute of an houre, and if we b… taken napping with ſinners, our rewar… …7. 24.is with them, wherevpon it is full truelyLuk. 15. 24. ſaid.

To death we muſt ſtoope be we high be we low.

But how or how ſodenly, few be that know.

Reaſ.

But yet muſt they needs be damned that are appointed to damnation?

Reli.

It is true; yet alwaies becauſe they are ſinners and doe not harken to the voyce of the Lord.

Rea.

Truely in my iudgement, euen that is enough to ſtoppe any mans mouth, be he neuer ſo captious: but I pray you is their no eſpecyall ſtrength in this doctine, whereby the childeren of God in the periluos time of temptatiō, may comfort themſelues, and wage battaile as it were againſt Satan in the depth of his aſſaults?

Reli.

Doubtleſſe this either is, or oughtMat. 10. 39. to be no queſtion, for if wee conſider that ſatan hath no power to plucke one heare from their head, more then the LordThe comfort of prodeſtion. ſhall appoint, and that al the wicked rout are houlden in by the hand of God as by a bridle, that they can neither conceue any miſchiefe againſt them, or goe about it, when they hauehave conceued it, or if they goe about it neuer ſo much, that theyIoh. 1. 11. 12 can bring nothing to paſſe, but that which hee doth command: what daſtards are they that will ſhrinke one haire bredth from ſuch a ſimple enemy, hauing ſo mighty a God, with ſo many legions of Angels watching ouer them continually, for their defence.

Reaſ.

But for all this thou knoweſt that Gods deareſt childeren are oftentimes ouerſet with feare of his power, yea and peeuiſhly intreated thereby alſo.

Rel.

It is graunted, and truely, this may ſerue for a glaſſe for Gods deareſt childeren, to behould their wantes in theThe cauſe that Satan, miſintreateth Gods children. faith of Chriſt, as alſo their corruption, houlding them downe ſo faſt vnderunder ſinne, that when they are at the beſt, euen then are they not without deſert of Gods chaſtiſmentts.

Reaſ.

And what? is the ſame faith, whoſe obiect is the ſonne of God crucified, the onelyonly condition where-vponupon all the childeren of God in their ſeaſons are gatheyed vp into immortallity?

Rlig.

It is ſo.

Reſ.

Ergo, It is no matter if we obey not the law of God, wherin we learne to ſerue him, and to performe ſuch actions of ſociety: as be requiſite betweene man and man.

Reli.

This is but a …and ſtarting hole, for as the mercy of God is not extended, but through frée election, not without the condition of faith included by God for the externe: ſo alſo is it prouided, that the ſame faith, bee accompanied with righteous exerciſes. But concerning this matter, and other mo whereof I am to confer with thée, I would we might méet hereafter at more conuenient leaſure.

Rea.

I am well content, in the meane time I thanke you of your pacience in this diſcourſe, beſeeching God that I may alwaies beare in minde the Godly aduiſements thereof.

FINIS.

By ARTVR DENT.

The Opening of Heaven Gates, Dialogue

p. 1A fruitfull Dialogue betweene Reaſon, and Religion touching Gods Predeſtination, and mans freewill &c.

A fruitfull Dialogue betweene Reaſon, and Religion touching Gods Predeſtination, and mans freewill &c.